Comments on: Support Israeli Conscientious Objectors — Free the Shministim

By: God's Politics: A Blog by Jim Wallis & Friends

God's Politics: A Blog by Jim Wallis & Friends — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:00:49 +0000

[...] name is Omer Goldman. I am 19 years old. I am one of the Shministim. I need your [...]

By: carlcopas

carlcopas — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:16:35 +0000

Thank you. Not that I'm a prude (indeed I'm working on a longtime and deeply rooted swearing habit myself), but there are other people on here who would be offended.

Peace.

By: stefanwarner

stefanwarner — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:19:24 +0000

yeah, sorry broski

By: carlcopas

carlcopas — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:02:16 +0000

Can you clean up the language a bit, please?

By: stefanwarner

stefanwarner — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:35:06 +0000

nathanael snow, i was surprised to see you comment on here. i probably shouldn't be. i've read some of your comments and stuff on thecommonroot.org. your comment cracked me up. not because i disagreed with it or anything but mainly because it seems like it would piss of tons of people and i like that.
i don't really have anything else to say. zinn fucking rules though.

By: jurisnaturalist

jurisnaturalist — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:19:01 +0000

Does paying taxes count as “government service?” How is it different?

By: Eric77

Eric77 — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:50:10 +0000

Government mandated service of any kind is wrong regardless of what country one lives in. I'm glad she's objecting.

By: erbe

erbe — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:33:04 +0000

Just society? How in the world can you apply that concept to Israel? Apartheid, belligerent, secular, founded on the misappropriation of land inhabited by others using terrorist organizations like Irgun and the colonial mindset of Great Britain via the Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate.

Truman should have listened to George Marshall.

By: jurisnaturalist

jurisnaturalist — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:28:01 +0000

I don't care if the Arab nations around Israel destroy it utterly.
I do care about the Jews. Peoples and their governments are not the same thing. I would gladly see the nation-state of Israel destroyed and the Jews assimilated into these nations or immigrated to the US, whatever they prefer. I am for open borders.
But there is no place for Christians to insist upon US Government support for either the Israeli government, the Palestinian government, any other government, or even the USG itself.
As for the innocents who might die, I have invited them to live with me, as every Christian should.
Nathanael Snow

By: Habakkuk

Habakkuk — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:22:13 +0000

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all Israeli citizens refused to serve? Then peaceful, democratic Arab states like Syria and religious service organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah would finally be free to build a just society based on nonviolence and human rights. Regional humanitarian powers like placid Iran and tolerant Saudi Arabia would loosen their purse strings and “invest” in infrastructure and education in Palestine. In time, the warmaking Jews might even be pushed into the sea, sealing peace and tranquility for all time in the Middle East. And it all begins with one Shministit.

By: erbe

erbe — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:55:23 +0000

It's just to counter the effort expended by John Hagee on behalf of Israel.

By: jurisnaturalist

jurisnaturalist — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:56:34 +0000

Welcome Dr. Zinn!
I wonder at what this young lady's principles are which lead her to choose such an interesting stance. While Christians have been among conscientious objects to military action often in the past, I am ignorant of other pacifist actions among Jewish groups. If there are more stories like this from history, I would be interested in reading them.
That said, I have no intentions of appealing to the secular-pagan nation-state of Israel on anyone's behalf. As a Christian, I do not recognize the Israeli government's right to exist, because I do not recognize any government's right to exist.
But if the secular-pagan Jews want a King (centralized government) then they can set up whatever kind of government they like under whatever arbitrary set of laws they like. If any of them disapprove of those laws, then protest they should, and protest they shall. Either they are protesting for their own self-interest because they don't want to face the potential risks of war, or they are protesting on moral grounds, out of concern for potential casualties of innocents. I'm fine with both. But if it is for the latter reason, then they also ought to protest the very existence of the nation-state. For the state is the monopolization of force, and if it is force they are against, as Christ was, then they also ought to be opposed to the other privileges sustained by the nation-state. My guess is, that if pressed, most of these individuals would not be willing to go so far. This is either a revelation of an inconsistency in their own ethics, or a mere exposure of their self-interested motivation for protesting.
Either way, I don't see why it is relevant for American Christians to say anything at all to the Israeli Government about it.
Nathanael Snow