Comments on: Selective Memory in the Gaza Conflict http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/ A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:27:14 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: carlcopas http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82323 carlcopas Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:25:55 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82323 "That was the sanest statement on this whole thread"<br><br>I agree. Don, many of us join you in praying that the Holy Spiri will give us wisdom. “That was the sanest statement on this whole thread”

I agree. Don, many of us join you in praying that the Holy Spiri will give us wisdom.

]]> By: JamesM http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82302 JamesM Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:46:01 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82302 Why should your request to deal with the issues be honored when you yourself do not deal with the issues. You insult Palestinians and then you expect to be taken seriously. Pathetic. Truly pathetic. Why should your request to deal with the issues be honored when you yourself do not deal with the issues. You insult Palestinians and then you expect to be taken seriously. Pathetic. Truly pathetic.

]]> By: BlueDeacon http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82295 BlueDeacon Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:21:33 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82295 That was the sanest statement on this whole thread -- I've read newspaper commentaries to this effect. And even if Satan <I>is</i> at work, as some here have suggested, it helps to keep in mind that he often uses things that are, in fact, true.</I> That was the sanest statement on this whole thread — I've read newspaper commentaries to this effect. And even if Satan is at work, as some here have suggested, it helps to keep in mind that he often uses things that are, in fact, true.

]]> By: BuckeyeDon http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82291 BuckeyeDon Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:31:01 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82291 I do think BrentH's comments, if one can read them without becoming thoroughly incensed and nauseated, can actually be useful, if only because they illustrate the intractable nature of attitudes toward the Middle East situation. I don' t for a minute believe that perpetual war between Israel and Palestine is truly inevitable. But the situation won't ever be solved so long as both sides and their supporters continue stereotyping and demonizing the other side.<br><br>Obviously, if "the vast majority" of Palestinians are "incorrigibly racist and pathologically suicidal" and are "in Satan's thrall," then it can do no good to learn to know them or to try and understand their situation, or to comprehend that they really do have the same wishes and desires for themselves and their loved ones as we do. Better to bomb them and keep them at a distance--keep them as an abstraction, as BrentH has done.<br><br>On the other hand, if indeed the Israelis are only interested in perpetuating a sense of moral superiority born out of the long history of antisemitism, or if they are just neo-colonialists bent on dominating a region that doesn't really belong to them, then, too, it will be hard to see them as individuals whose hearts beat exactly the same way as ours do.<br><br>And so the finger pointing, and thus the bombing, continues. If this truly is the will of God, it cannot be the God of the Hebrew scriptures or the God revealed in Jesus Christ. It fmust be the will of some other, and demonic, "god." How can we, instructed by Jesus to become peacemakers, melt hearts that have become petrified, one by one, both Israeli and Palestinian? I truly believe that's our job as peacemakers. I don't have any idea how to do it, but I pray that the Holy Spirit will give us wisdom.<br><br>Peace I do think BrentH's comments, if one can read them without becoming thoroughly incensed and nauseated, can actually be useful, if only because they illustrate the intractable nature of attitudes toward the Middle East situation. I don' t for a minute believe that perpetual war between Israel and Palestine is truly inevitable. But the situation won't ever be solved so long as both sides and their supporters continue stereotyping and demonizing the other side.

Obviously, if “the vast majority” of Palestinians are “incorrigibly racist and pathologically suicidal” and are “in Satan's thrall,” then it can do no good to learn to know them or to try and understand their situation, or to comprehend that they really do have the same wishes and desires for themselves and their loved ones as we do. Better to bomb them and keep them at a distance–keep them as an abstraction, as BrentH has done.

On the other hand, if indeed the Israelis are only interested in perpetuating a sense of moral superiority born out of the long history of antisemitism, or if they are just neo-colonialists bent on dominating a region that doesn't really belong to them, then, too, it will be hard to see them as individuals whose hearts beat exactly the same way as ours do.

And so the finger pointing, and thus the bombing, continues. If this truly is the will of God, it cannot be the God of the Hebrew scriptures or the God revealed in Jesus Christ. It fmust be the will of some other, and demonic, “god.” How can we, instructed by Jesus to become peacemakers, melt hearts that have become petrified, one by one, both Israeli and Palestinian? I truly believe that's our job as peacemakers. I don't have any idea how to do it, but I pray that the Holy Spirit will give us wisdom.

Peace

]]> By: BlueDeacon http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82289 BlueDeacon Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:02:37 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82289 And another insult, to boot -- I'm an evangelical by your standards, and so are many people who post here. But we don't uncritically subscribe to conservative ideology, in part because we believe that it violates Scripture. And another insult, to boot — I'm an evangelical by your standards, and so are many people who post here. But we don't uncritically subscribe to conservative ideology, in part because we believe that it violates Scripture.

]]> By: BuckeyeDon http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82287 BuckeyeDon Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:52:27 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82287 Brent, my comments were not inflammatory. Stating that an entire nation is "incorrigably racist and pathologically genocidal" is demonstrably a racist comment. There's simply no way to get around that.<br><br>If you want us to stop accusing you of making racist remarks, then refrain from making racist remarks. It's that simple. Brent, my comments were not inflammatory. Stating that an entire nation is “incorrigably racist and pathologically genocidal” is demonstrably a racist comment. There's simply no way to get around that.

If you want us to stop accusing you of making racist remarks, then refrain from making racist remarks. It's that simple.

]]> By: Mark86 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82285 Mark86 Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:25:51 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82285 Well Sir Ethical, I do agree with you that there is a misconception around Hamas. They have indeed been weighted down by politically loaded words, so that people are either afraid of them or confuses them so they ignore the whole issue. But I think that Hamas would better be described as a Freedom Fighting Organization/A Political Party. Unlike the Muslim Brotherhood, who is responding to what they see as tarnishes in Islam, Hamas may be wrapped with Islamic wording but they are at their core fighting for principles of freedom and justice. Whether you agree with their tactics or not it does provide for a deeper understanding of the conflict to not get rooted in the "terrorist" name calling. Yet who wants to humanize our enemies right. It is so much easier to back all Muslim people into the corner of being wife beating, rocket shooting, holocaust denying animals. Maybe even Osama Bin Laden has a family and friends, and didn't grow up one day wishing to kill people. Maybe if we were not hard headed enough to actually listen to our enemies they could show us the log in our own eye. Sorry that was kind of a rant. Well Sir Ethical, I do agree with you that there is a misconception around Hamas. They have indeed been weighted down by politically loaded words, so that people are either afraid of them or confuses them so they ignore the whole issue. But I think that Hamas would better be described as a Freedom Fighting Organization/A Political Party. Unlike the Muslim Brotherhood, who is responding to what they see as tarnishes in Islam, Hamas may be wrapped with Islamic wording but they are at their core fighting for principles of freedom and justice. Whether you agree with their tactics or not it does provide for a deeper understanding of the conflict to not get rooted in the “terrorist” name calling. Yet who wants to humanize our enemies right. It is so much easier to back all Muslim people into the corner of being wife beating, rocket shooting, holocaust denying animals. Maybe even Osama Bin Laden has a family and friends, and didn't grow up one day wishing to kill people. Maybe if we were not hard headed enough to actually listen to our enemies they could show us the log in our own eye. Sorry that was kind of a rant.

]]> By: NMRod http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82284 NMRod Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:35:04 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82284 Please don't forget that there is a powerful military/industrial complex, the same that Eisenhower warned of, that distorts the politics of war simply because there is so much money to be made. These folks WERE depressed at the end of the Cold War and they have found a way to spend even more against poor non-state actors than against a credible enemy that the Soviet Union was. Please don't forget that there is a powerful military/industrial complex, the same that Eisenhower warned of, that distorts the politics of war simply because there is so much money to be made. These folks WERE depressed at the end of the Cold War and they have found a way to spend even more against poor non-state actors than against a credible enemy that the Soviet Union was.

]]> By: sircalebtheethical http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82283 sircalebtheethical Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:28:12 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82283 i don't think you know what hamas is bro. there is a misconception in the west that there exist these powerful entities called 'terrorist organizations'. they simply don't exist. what you have are islamic organizations.<br><br>the history of islamic organizations is in some ways similar to the early history of italian-american mafias.<br><br>originally, communities come together and shared resources, so that everyone was able to live together more comfortably. what these mafias found was that part of the job of sharing resources and working together was protection, so they took on para-militaries, meager times (the depression) led to extreme measures and organized crime.<br><br>islamic organizations come together and share resources so that everyone is able to live together with greater comfort. part of comfort is protection, so islamic organizations tend to have paramilitaries. meager times, when brought on by outside oppression (the history of israel) lead to extreme measures- what some would call "terrorism"- what members of hamas would likely call fighting for the right to live soveriegnly.<br><br><a href="http://thewaterboy88.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thewaterboy88.blogspot.com/</a> i don't think you know what hamas is bro. there is a misconception in the west that there exist these powerful entities called 'terrorist organizations'. they simply don't exist. what you have are islamic organizations.

the history of islamic organizations is in some ways similar to the early history of italian-american mafias.

originally, communities come together and shared resources, so that everyone was able to live together more comfortably. what these mafias found was that part of the job of sharing resources and working together was protection, so they took on para-militaries, meager times (the depression) led to extreme measures and organized crime.

islamic organizations come together and share resources so that everyone is able to live together with greater comfort. part of comfort is protection, so islamic organizations tend to have paramilitaries. meager times, when brought on by outside oppression (the history of israel) lead to extreme measures- what some would call “terrorism”- what members of hamas would likely call fighting for the right to live soveriegnly.

http://thewaterboy88.blogspot.com/

]]> By: sircalebtheethical http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82280 sircalebtheethical Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:18:31 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82280 hamas isn't a terrorist organization roundtop. the history of islamic organizations is in some ways similar to the early history of italian-american mafias. <br><br>originally, communities come together and shared resources, so that everyone was able to live together more comfortably. what these mafias found was that part of the job of sharing resources and working together was protection, so they took on para-militaries, meager times led to extreme measures and organized crime.<br><br>islamic organizations come together and share resources so that everyone is able to live together with greater comfort. part of comfort is protection, so islamic organizations tend to have paramilitaries. meager times, when brought on by outside oppression (the history of israel) lead to extreme measures- what some would call "terrorism"- what members of hamas would likely call fighting for the right to live soveriegnly.<br><br><a href="http://thewaterboy88.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thewaterboy88.blogspot.com/</a> hamas isn't a terrorist organization roundtop. the history of islamic organizations is in some ways similar to the early history of italian-american mafias.

originally, communities come together and shared resources, so that everyone was able to live together more comfortably. what these mafias found was that part of the job of sharing resources and working together was protection, so they took on para-militaries, meager times led to extreme measures and organized crime.

islamic organizations come together and share resources so that everyone is able to live together with greater comfort. part of comfort is protection, so islamic organizations tend to have paramilitaries. meager times, when brought on by outside oppression (the history of israel) lead to extreme measures- what some would call “terrorism”- what members of hamas would likely call fighting for the right to live soveriegnly.

http://thewaterboy88.blogspot.com/

]]> By: sircalebtheethical http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-2/#comment-82279 sircalebtheethical Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:11:19 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82279 but when you regulating the economies of the folks inside that control it is called prison. but when you regulating the economies of the folks inside that control it is called prison.

]]> By: PASTOR JEFF http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82276 PASTOR JEFF Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:51:35 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82276 Nice dodge. Nice dodge.

]]> By: BrentH http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82275 BrentH Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:29:08 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82275 "Their literature suggests otherwise -- they had defined themselves by the struggle, "<br><br>I think this is also true of poverty advocacy in the U.S. True poverty is around 3-4% not 13%. But show a liberal the documentation on that and they get upset. I've never understood why. I woulda thought they'd be happy.<br><br>Could also be why SoJo has a disporportionate interest in the wrongs of the United States. <br><br>Jim Wallis always said he was born in the wrong century, that he shoulda been born when slavery was a problem. I never understood - shouldn't one be happy to have been born in a century when it was no longer around? <br><br>Well, this provides an answer. Lack of a struggle means a lack of meaning. Hence a motivation to make up or exaggerate injustices.<br><br>I have no problem with meaning because I have Christ in my life. <br>I invite those who largely agree with SoJo to find him and fill the void in your life. “Their literature suggests otherwise — they had defined themselves by the struggle, “

I think this is also true of poverty advocacy in the U.S. True poverty is around 3-4% not 13%. But show a liberal the documentation on that and they get upset. I've never understood why. I woulda thought they'd be happy.

Could also be why SoJo has a disporportionate interest in the wrongs of the United States.

Jim Wallis always said he was born in the wrong century, that he shoulda been born when slavery was a problem. I never understood – shouldn't one be happy to have been born in a century when it was no longer around?

Well, this provides an answer. Lack of a struggle means a lack of meaning. Hence a motivation to make up or exaggerate injustices.

I have no problem with meaning because I have Christ in my life.
I invite those who largely agree with SoJo to find him and fill the void in your life.

]]> By: BrentH http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82274 BrentH Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:17:26 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82274 "Their literature suggests otherwise -- they had defined themselves by the struggle, and when it ended it sought new meaning. Even Bill Buckley admitted as such."<br><br>Well, not me. Or anyone else I know. One friend of mine said he had a professor that was ticked, but I was happy as a lark. “Their literature suggests otherwise — they had defined themselves by the struggle, and when it ended it sought new meaning. Even Bill Buckley admitted as such.”

Well, not me. Or anyone else I know. One friend of mine said he had a professor that was ticked, but I was happy as a lark.

]]> By: PASTOR JEFF http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82272 PASTOR JEFF Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:08:55 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82272 They don't need to have someone to hat they heed to be hated by someone. It comes in handy for all groups and for individuals as well. We need to be hated almost as much as we need to be loved. They don't need to have someone to hat they heed to be hated by someone. It comes in handy for all groups and for individuals as well. We need to be hated almost as much as we need to be loved.

]]> By: BrentH http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82271 BrentH Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:06:03 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82271 Doesn't mean they like it and aim to keep it alive. Doesn't mean they like it and aim to keep it alive.

]]> By: PASTOR JEFF http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82270 PASTOR JEFF Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:03:01 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82270 To be Jewish is to be oppressed. It's part of their cultural narrative. To be Jewish is to be oppressed. It's part of their cultural narrative.

]]> By: BrentH http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82268 BrentH Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:58:10 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82268 I don't know of any conservatives that were depressed. I was happy, and so were all the other conservatives I know. <br><br>Without specific evidence that that is the case, I find no reason to believe that is true in the case of Israel. I don't think they place the need to have someone to hate over their own well-being. I don't know of any conservatives that were depressed. I was happy, and so were all the other conservatives I know.

Without specific evidence that that is the case, I find no reason to believe that is true in the case of Israel. I don't think they place the need to have someone to hate over their own well-being.

]]> By: PASTOR JEFF http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82267 PASTOR JEFF Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:55:33 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82267 Because it might be true? Or it could just be an obvious fact. It wouldn't be the first time in the history of the world. Because it might be true? Or it could just be an obvious fact. It wouldn't be the first time in the history of the world.

]]> By: BlueDeacon http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/07/selective-memory-in-the-gaza-conflict/comment-page-1/#comment-82266 BlueDeacon Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:55:01 +0000 http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=5027#comment-82266 For the same reason many political conservatives found themselves deeply depressed at the end of the Cold War -- their objective attained, they found they had no one to hate. For the same reason many political conservatives found themselves deeply depressed at the end of the Cold War — their objective attained, they found they had no one to hate.

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