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	<title>Comments on: Women Missionaries Who Can&#8217;t Preach at Home</title>
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	<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:27:14 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: canucklehead</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-85081</link>
		<dc:creator>canucklehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 04:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-85081</guid>
		<description>see Janette Hassey &quot;No Time for Silence&quot; (pp. 15-19) for a summation of C&amp;MA founder, A.B. Simpson&#039;s very &quot;pro&quot; women stance. L.E. Maxwell was a graduate of the C&amp;MA influenced school at Midland, Kansas, early 1920s, where he took up Simpson&#039;s views on the matter, as instructed by Dorothy Ruth Miller, who taught at Nyack, the pioneer C&amp;MA school in New York</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>see Janette Hassey &#8220;No Time for Silence&#8221; (pp. 15-19) for a summation of C&#038;MA founder, A.B. Simpson&#39;s very &#8220;pro&#8221; women stance. L.E. Maxwell was a graduate of the C&#038;MA influenced school at Midland, Kansas, early 1920s, where he took up Simpson&#39;s views on the matter, as instructed by Dorothy Ruth Miller, who taught at Nyack, the pioneer C&#038;MA school in New York</p>
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		<title>By: thecommonloon</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82930</link>
		<dc:creator>thecommonloon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82930</guid>
		<description>Where in Scripture does it say that women can teach in Bible studies but not in a church service?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where in Scripture does it say that women can teach in Bible studies but not in a church service?</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82867</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82867</guid>
		<description>It probably does, but who cares?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It probably does, but who cares?</p>
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		<title>By: SisterMarie</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82847</link>
		<dc:creator>SisterMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82847</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a bunch of Bravo Sierra to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a bunch of Bravo Sierra to me.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82802</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82802</guid>
		<description>I am unfamiliar with the CMA.  Their standpoint is hypocritical, but should not be construed as a defense for women in the pastorate.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As far as the ministry roles you mention, I think churches should make very clear which roles women should take on, and why this is so.  Decisions coming from bias or cultural mores are not authoritative.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For our church, the difference between leadership of a bible study and leadership of a church boils down to the role of teaching during a church service.  It doesn&#039;t have anything to do with a mind/heart issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am unfamiliar with the CMA.  Their standpoint is hypocritical, but should not be construed as a defense for women in the pastorate.  </p>
<p>As far as the ministry roles you mention, I think churches should make very clear which roles women should take on, and why this is so.  Decisions coming from bias or cultural mores are not authoritative.  </p>
<p>For our church, the difference between leadership of a bible study and leadership of a church boils down to the role of teaching during a church service.  It doesn&#39;t have anything to do with a mind/heart issue.</p>
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		<title>By: thecommonloon</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82790</link>
		<dc:creator>thecommonloon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 02:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82790</guid>
		<description>To answer kevin47 who asked, &quot;Is this a common phenomenon?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Personally, I&#039;ve seen it happen all the time. I was raised as a missionary kid in Africa &amp; Southeast Asia where women preaching and teaching was not a big deal at all.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The denomination I currently belong to (Christian and Missionary Alliance) ordains women who become missionaries overseas or even if they, get this, pastor at a non-English speaking church here in the U.S. (such as a Chinese Alliance church).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interestingly enough, the CMA will not ordain women as pastors if the church is a regular old WASP congregation that speaks English like the one I attend. It sounds crazy, but my wife and I have personally encountered this obstacle because she&#039;s interested in preaching/ordination but the gender restrictions are applied very inconsistently (i.e. certain kinds of leadership and teaching are ok in mixed groups, but not others). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mimi Haddad is right on the money. The idea of &quot;gender-based ministry roles&quot; that prohibit all women (regardless of gifting or ability) from positions of &quot;spiritual authority&quot; is too often used as a standard selectively applied to ordination and preaching, but not to other influential positions such as worship leader, youth minister (which is often called &quot;director&quot; so that the position sounds more administrative/occupational), overseas missionary (as long as you&#039;re single), book author, biblical/theological academic scholar, conference speaker or devotional/bible study leader who is allowed to &quot;share from her heart&quot; (implying that too much use of her mind might cross the line into territory reserved for men only).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This too shall pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer kevin47 who asked, &#8220;Is this a common phenomenon?&#8221;</p>
<p>Personally, I&#39;ve seen it happen all the time. I was raised as a missionary kid in Africa &#038; Southeast Asia where women preaching and teaching was not a big deal at all.</p>
<p>The denomination I currently belong to (Christian and Missionary Alliance) ordains women who become missionaries overseas or even if they, get this, pastor at a non-English speaking church here in the U.S. (such as a Chinese Alliance church).</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, the CMA will not ordain women as pastors if the church is a regular old WASP congregation that speaks English like the one I attend. It sounds crazy, but my wife and I have personally encountered this obstacle because she&#39;s interested in preaching/ordination but the gender restrictions are applied very inconsistently (i.e. certain kinds of leadership and teaching are ok in mixed groups, but not others). </p>
<p>Mimi Haddad is right on the money. The idea of &#8220;gender-based ministry roles&#8221; that prohibit all women (regardless of gifting or ability) from positions of &#8220;spiritual authority&#8221; is too often used as a standard selectively applied to ordination and preaching, but not to other influential positions such as worship leader, youth minister (which is often called &#8220;director&#8221; so that the position sounds more administrative/occupational), overseas missionary (as long as you&#39;re single), book author, biblical/theological academic scholar, conference speaker or devotional/bible study leader who is allowed to &#8220;share from her heart&#8221; (implying that too much use of her mind might cross the line into territory reserved for men only).</p>
<p>This too shall pass.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82713</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82713</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do you have family or friends on the mission field who are women? How many of them preach, teach, and exercise their gifts of leadership beside men on the mission field?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Is this a common phenomenon? I haven&#039;t heard of a church that holds to the complimentarian view sending women to preach.  If we send missionaries to preach, it is because they are either forming or joining a local church.  Of course, missionaries of either gender are encouraged to use their leadership gifts, but that is a different matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do you have family or friends on the mission field who are women? How many of them preach, teach, and exercise their gifts of leadership beside men on the mission field?&#8221;</p>
<p>Is this a common phenomenon? I haven&#39;t heard of a church that holds to the complimentarian view sending women to preach.  If we send missionaries to preach, it is because they are either forming or joining a local church.  Of course, missionaries of either gender are encouraged to use their leadership gifts, but that is a different matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Lhill</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82630</link>
		<dc:creator>Lhill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82630</guid>
		<description>God has given us experiences in life to know what is acceptable. I have had the great privilege to have had female and male pastors. I also have had my own life relationships as a Christian leader that have resonances with scripture, especially as they have been lived out as an aspect of Jesus&#039;s teachings about women as teachers and preachers. Of course we are a part of God&#039;s leadership. How could it be any other way?  I look into my own self  to see God and know that I am a part of the leadership of the Church. This is my soul&#039;s journey, given by God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God has given us experiences in life to know what is acceptable. I have had the great privilege to have had female and male pastors. I also have had my own life relationships as a Christian leader that have resonances with scripture, especially as they have been lived out as an aspect of Jesus&#39;s teachings about women as teachers and preachers. Of course we are a part of God&#39;s leadership. How could it be any other way?  I look into my own self  to see God and know that I am a part of the leadership of the Church. This is my soul&#39;s journey, given by God.</p>
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		<title>By: MattShafer</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82614</link>
		<dc:creator>MattShafer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82614</guid>
		<description>Yup. Basically, women can&#039;t hold authority over men, unless the men are African.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. Basically, women can&#39;t hold authority over men, unless the men are African.</p>
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		<title>By: SisterMarie</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82596</link>
		<dc:creator>SisterMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82596</guid>
		<description>carolvan,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I slowly read through Mimi Haddad&#039;s post, the thought kept coming that before she finished writing, that she might speculate on why it is that it&#039;s ok for women to be missionairies but not minister here at home. Before I had scrolled down to your comment, I had reached the same conclusion as you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>carolvan,</p>
<p>As I slowly read through Mimi Haddad&#39;s post, the thought kept coming that before she finished writing, that she might speculate on why it is that it&#39;s ok for women to be missionairies but not minister here at home. Before I had scrolled down to your comment, I had reached the same conclusion as you.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe_Allen_Doty</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82594</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe_Allen_Doty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82594</guid>
		<description>In the book of Acts, there were women mentioned who were pastors, teachers, evangelists and deacons. Some of the English Bible translations have the Greek masculine noun meaning &quot;deacon&quot; translated as &quot;servant&quot; when the context referred to a woman. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, a church deacon is an appointed position and therefore it has to be a masculine noun.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have known women who were missionaries, pastors, evangelists and even Bible teachers. My own mother was a Bible teacher to adults in an Assembly of God when I was growing up. The pastor of that church was a woman. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I knew two women while they were pastors of an Assembly of God in Aiea, Hawaii in the Pearl Harbor Area and they also had AG missionary status. I attended their church on Sunday both of the times I was on R&amp;R in Hawaii while I was stationed in South Vietnam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the book of Acts, there were women mentioned who were pastors, teachers, evangelists and deacons. Some of the English Bible translations have the Greek masculine noun meaning &#8220;deacon&#8221; translated as &#8220;servant&#8221; when the context referred to a woman. </p>
<p>But, a church deacon is an appointed position and therefore it has to be a masculine noun.</p>
<p>I have known women who were missionaries, pastors, evangelists and even Bible teachers. My own mother was a Bible teacher to adults in an Assembly of God when I was growing up. The pastor of that church was a woman. </p>
<p>I knew two women while they were pastors of an Assembly of God in Aiea, Hawaii in the Pearl Harbor Area and they also had AG missionary status. I attended their church on Sunday both of the times I was on R&#038;R in Hawaii while I was stationed in South Vietnam.</p>
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		<title>By: carolvan</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/01/12/women-missionaries-who-cant-preach-at-hom/comment-page-1/#comment-82591</link>
		<dc:creator>carolvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sojo.net/blog/godspolitics/?p=4656#comment-82591</guid>
		<description>&quot;....many of the churches that send these women to the mission field do not provide opportunities for them to preach, teach, or exercise leadership when they return home.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;One of my professors at George Fox Evangelical Seminary made a bold, startling statement regarding this practice.  He believed the practice was certainly deeply sinful toward women, but it was also deeply racial.  If women are &quot;appropriately&quot; responsible for teaching children, but not WASP men, then what does that really say about attitudes toward minority or non-western men if we can place women over them?  It is a powerful and insidious reinforcement of inequity and hierarchy toward the non-western male, as well as toward women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;.many of the churches that send these women to the mission field do not provide opportunities for them to preach, teach, or exercise leadership when they return home.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of my professors at George Fox Evangelical Seminary made a bold, startling statement regarding this practice.  He believed the practice was certainly deeply sinful toward women, but it was also deeply racial.  If women are &#8220;appropriately&#8221; responsible for teaching children, but not WASP men, then what does that really say about attitudes toward minority or non-western men if we can place women over them?  It is a powerful and insidious reinforcement of inequity and hierarchy toward the non-western male, as well as toward women.</p>
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