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God's Politics

Your Ballots at Work: ‘Waterboarding is Torture’

by Ryan Rodrick Beiler 01-16-2009

This kind of feels close to an exercise in I-told-you-so, but for all the folks who assert that voting is a hopelessly corrupted exercise in irredeemable empire, consider as an indicator the testimony of Obama’s attorney general nominee Eric Holder:

“Waterboarding is torture.”

Contrast this with the policies of Alberto “The-Geneva-Conventions-Are-Quaint” Gonzoles or current Bush AG Michael “I-don’t-know-what’s-involved-in-the-technique-If-waterboarding-is-torture-then-torture-is-not-constitutional” Mukasey.

By the way, there are actual terrorists who attempted to participate in the 9-11 attacks who cannot be prosecuted because the evidence against them was tainted with torture. These definitions matter, and the deliberate ambiguity of the Bush administration, besides being immoral, has also made us less safe by tainting the investigations of real terrorists and radicalizing many more through resulting scandals like Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

Now, I will have many disagreements with the Obama administration, such as raising troop levels in Afghanistan. I am deeply concerned about the approach he, with a Clinton Secretary of State, will have toward Israel and Palestine given their one-sided campaign rhetoric. (Though I am at least confident they will actually have an active and engaged approach toward the conflict from day one.)

I am also suspicious enough of our government and  intelligence services to know that no matter what the official policy is, there will be elements who play by their own rules and enjoy the ignorance–willful or otherwise–of those in charge. Maybe I’ve just watched too many Tom Clancey and Jason Bourne movies. Maybe I’ve read too much history. I am not naive. But can the nonvoters with clean consciences unsullied by empire’s stains look in the eyes of real people who are prisoners in U.S. custody who will, as a result of these changed policies, now not be tortured and still say you’re not willing to have a say in who gets elected? That the difference voting can make is not worth challenging your ideological purity?

Barack Obama is not the Messiah, but he is going to close Guantanamo Bay prison. I completely respect all of the protests and symbolic witnesses against torture and Gitmo. But I would assert that none of them would ever–ever–have any affect, except on the conscience of those participating. That’s why I got arrested in front of the White House in 2003 (with a court date on Good Friday, no less). I knew it wouldn’t stop the war, but I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t do something extreme to protest it. But you had better believe that I cast a vote the following year–and it wasn’t to write-in “Jesus” because he’s the real Prince of Peace.

I seek to follow Jesus every day and worship him as my only true Lord, but I know what a voting booth is for. (Similarly, I would not reject the options at the bakery because Jesus is the only true Bread of Life, nor do I reject going to the doctor on the rationale that Jesus is the only true Healer.)

Some critics will likely mention abortion. But I truly believe that this administration has a better chance of creating the common ground to actually reduce the number of abortions than any previous administration, Republican or Democrat. But that’s one to keep praying about–lots of forces have an interest in keeping that hot button nice and hot so they can press it during campaign and fundraising time.

So yes, in many ways, our political system is hopelessly corrupt. Yes, I believe that Jesus Christ is the only true answer to violence, injustice, and poverty. And yes, we as individuals and as a church need to actively live into the kingdom of God that Jesus preached. But if we truly care about the least of these, the most vulnerable and marginalized, the most violated and oppressed, we are obligated to engage the civic tools at our disposal on their behalf. Anything less is privileged piety, and cold comfort to those in Gitmo, Gaza, or the Gulf Coast.

Also, we’re going to get more SCHIP. More children will now have access to health care who didn’t before. Happy inauguration weekend, everyone.

Ryan Rodrick Beiler is the Web Editor for Sojourners.

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  • You didn't vote for Jesus?
  • jesse3
    Some critics will likely mention abortion. But I truly believe that this administration has a better chance of creating the common ground to actually reduce the number of abortions than any previous administration, Republican or Democrat.
    --Willful ignorance is a pretty powerful thing, isn't it? You believe this because you want to believe this. Which is why no one at Sojo ever mentions Obama's support for FOCA or taxpayer funded abortions here and abroad. Look, I know you think other issues are more important and you are opposed to laws protecting unborn children. Just be honest about it. Don't pretend that you also care more about the unborn than others and that a vote for Obama was a vote for the unborn. It's dishonest.

    But that’s one to keep praying about–lots of forces have an interest in keeping that hot button nice and hot so they can press it during campaign and fundraising time.
    --Yep, and which campaign brought up this "hot-button" issue in their advertisements during this past election? Hint: it wasn't McCain's.

    I'm glad you feel so good about Obama's presidency...I'm just getting tired of hearing the disingenuous comments about abortion on this website.
  • Guest
    "I'm glad you feel so good about Obama's presidency...I'm just getting tired of hearing the disingenuous comments about abortion on this website"

    I understand your frustration. The language we use and terminalogy appears to be different here then what we are use to . If I said I was pro gay most would expect me to be pro marriage rights for gay people . To say I was pro life one would expect I would support pro life issues , such as Supreme Court Justices that support a more literal understanding of the Constitution.

    Here it means I am pro life , after a discussion it turns out it on the list of importance under CSI reruns It is used politically to attract Evangelical voters in my opinion , when push comes to shove it means little .

    Unfortunately . Just think If President Obama was pro life , one he would never have gotten the Democratic Party denomination , but wow , I would have voted for him .
  • jesse3
    btw, even though you are dead wrong on abortion and in your unwillingness to criticize Obama's horrendous views on that issue, I appreciate the fact that you're at least bringing up issues that you disagree with him about--even if the criticism is coming from the left.

    How many months (years?) will go by without your boss saying a single critical word about Obama? How many will go by without a single critical article written about him on this site? Several months have already passed and no criticism has appeared on this site...though I give you credit. Yours may have been the first.
  • Guest
    Obama walked into the Washinging Post recently and the folks clapped for him .
    This the press that holds our elected officals accountable .
    Will be interesting to see how the press handles his Presidency . In my life time I have never seen our economy worse , or the potential for worse . Being President now he will have to make some decisions that will not make many people happy in order for the country to rebound . I think president Bush was in tthat position also . The Pentagon just released information that about 60 prisoners who have been released from Gitmo have returned to terrorism . That is suspicious coming now from the Pentagon , but just the same , being against torture also means to are against Terrorist killing civilians in the name of Gihad . Obama is in a new world , where his decisions can kill innocent people , or some decisions maybe kill innocent people . God help him .
    .
  • Maybe start tagging articles on "abortion"? Oh I see, it is already done, just that this article does not have the "abortion" tag. Oops.
  • jsbrooks
    Bravo Ryan, yes indeed votes matter. Votes have now changed the disasterous direction of this nation that was lead by a throughly defective executive branch entirely willing to sacrifice civil liberty in the name of preemptive war, an executive branch that paid more attention to the African crisis than it ever did to the numerous crises on the home front, who turned its back on the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast in part because they were not big money contributors to the party. The recent vote repudiates an administration that throws out international law to employ torture, using techniques designed by cold warriors to get false confessions from those who stood against them. We have voted against employing fear tactics when anyone dared to raise a voice against an overreaching executive branch. Votes count. Words count.
    On the abortion issue, as long as the polarized opponents on either side keep declaring the other side to be the enemy and absolutely wrong all the time nothing will be accomplished. Here we have a new president who has declared he wants abortion sharply reduced. Do the antiabortion hardliners applaud. No. This Democratic President won't eliminate it outright so he's the enemy. Not a useful approach to getting anything done Jesse3. If you truly want to end abortion and prove you care for all the living, those unborn and those born, attack the root causes of poverty, ignorance, sex crimes, and disease and most abortions go away. Provide stronger support for the born and new mothers as well.
    Finally, speaking to corruption, no human system will ever be perfect or anything approaching perfect. We are fallible creatures prone to sin, we are all fallen. But working together, using our words and God's vision for a perfect community to come, we can make this world a better one. The question is, will we do it ... or will we prefer to spend our time hurling angry words back and forth and declaring all who don't agree with one point of view on one issue or another to be the enemy? Will we use constructive words and take constructive action or will we emulate the propagandizing talk show hosts and waste our time on creative insults and alienating potential allies? Only time will tell.
  • erbe
    I did like Holder's response; it was as clear and unambiguous as it could be. I just don't know what procedures constitute "waterboarding".

    One way to define the issue a little better would be to subject Mukasey, Bush, and Gonzales and their loved ones to the various procedures and then ask them afterwards whether the procedures were "torture".

    Did Jesus say we were to love our enemies... as ourselves?
  • JamesM
    You and I may disagree on a lot of things, but I cannot say that I disagree with you on this one!
  • Eric77
    I wouldn't get to overjoyed just yet. Just last weekend Obama said that Dick's Cheney's advice about not implementing all his campaign promises relating to the "war on terror" before seeing all the available information was good advice.

    Obama responded: "I think that was pretty good advice, which is I should know what’s going on before we make judgments and that we shouldn’t be making judgments on the basis of incomplete information or campaign rhetoric. So I’ve got no quibble with that particular quote."

    So basically he said that the things he was promising on the campaign trail were mostly rhetoric to get people to support him and, that he was basing those opinions on "incomplete information". While I have no doubt he'll be a better President than the last one when it comes to some important issues (sanctioning torture for one), he's not going to be a 180 from Bush. Obama's going to realize it's a lot harder to govern that it is to criticize from the outside. I would hope that all those people out there who wouldn't cut Bush a single inch of slack will do the same to Obama when he fails to measure up to your standards.
  • erbe
    Obama has already failed...didn't he go back on his campaign financing promises. I wonder what he said to explain that away? Maybe he just sprinkled some "star dust" in the air.
  • Eric77
    I wouldn't say going back on his campaign financing promise makes his presidency a failure or him a failure. Obama's definitely more of a pragmatist or opportunist than his adoring fans would make him out to be. He saw there were votes to be won by saying certain things. Like most politicians, once he got those votes he'll weigh which "promises" he wants to follow through on. It will be up to his adoring fans to decide whether not they want to hold his feet to the fire.
  • JamesM
    Eric77 said : "Obama's definitely more of a pragmatist or opportunist than his adoring fans would make him out to be. "

    I could not agree more. As one who supported and continues to support Obama, I realize that he is just a man- with his qualities and faults just like the rest of us. I would hope that none of those of us who support him would forget that. Otherwise we run the risk of supporting a potential dictatorship.

    Having said that, I believe a lot of the euphoria of his "adoring fans" is due to novel and historic nature of his election. It is my hope that his election and presidency will be a success. Part of that success will be in making normal that a person of any race be elected to the presidency.
  • erbe
    Pragmatism - can that be identified with some common sayings like: "go along to get along" or "go with the flow' or "don't rock the boat"?

    How about another; "the end justifies the means"?

    I'm wondering how Obama's pragmatism will play out in its application.

    And on another level, not referring to Obama, just how "pragmatic" should a follower of the teachings of Christ be?

    After all, can't lying and deception make you wealthy or get you elected? Can that behavior be considered pragmatic? Remember Jacob?

    How about David? Didn't he remove an obstacle to his union with his lover by employing a pragmatic solution?

    When will we all become healthy, wealthy, and wise due to "pragmatism"?
  • NMRod
    This is definitely a bi-partisan, equal-opportunity program - and even Christians can and have gotten involved.
  • Guest
    Eric your right about how a President sees things when he takes office and not quaterbacking from outside the Oval Office . President Obama just stated some of the prisoners at Guatemala bay will not receive a trial because of the security interests of allowing that would hurt our national security ,

    When Bush stated the same it was greeted with liar, etc . I totally agree with treating the prisoners as POWS , obeying the geneva Convention, and not the way the last Administration has . But I believe Obama has the smarts and ability to change course on certain issues when he sees all of the situation , and not just through an idealogical lens .
  • Chris1976
    If it takes waterboarding to prevent another 9/11 it is worth it. Terrorists want you and your family's head on a platter, literally. Why do progressives cozy up to people that hate our country? These are not rational people you can "dialogue" with.
  • JamesM
    Chris1976 said: "If it takes waterboarding to prevent another 9/11 it is worth it."

    No really it is not. Security at any cost is not really security at all. A government that feels entitled to torture its opponents can change the definition of its opponents to be any of us and use torture against us. I for one do not wish to live in such a society.
  • OnlyInEugene
    Chris1976 said: "These are not rational people you can "dialogue" with"

    Really? Do you know them that well? Do you really feel the evil in our world is so black and white? Do you stop to think about why they hate us?

    When we talk about "those" people and group them together and make general statements about them, we simplify them, and take their humanity away. We make it into a game of us verses them, and put God on our side. We fail to see that we are all human beings, and our mission as followers of Jesus is love all human beings and show them Jesus. As Walter Wink said, in times of conflict, we often fail to see the "evil" in ourselves, and fail to see God in our enemy.
  • NMRod
    I wonder how many of our people seem rational and worthwhile dialoging with when they burst in on an innocent family, to those terrorized but innocent members of that family?

    I don't think any clueless foreigner threatening you with a gun is someone you want to trust in a war zone.
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