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	<title>Comments on: Our Moral Audit of the Budget</title>
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	<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends</description>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84783</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 04:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84783</guid>
		<description>&quot;Spare us the pseudo-Calvinist theological garbage&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Um, he did...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Spare us the pseudo-Calvinist theological garbage&#8221;</p>
<p>Um, he did&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: cpd</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84782</link>
		<dc:creator>cpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84782</guid>
		<description>Yep.  That&#039;s why the bulk of our giving outside our church offering goes to Compassion kids.  Compassion has a track record of actually doing what they say they&#039;ll do - they feed, clothe and educate kids who, through no fault of their own, are in extreme poverty.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I mentioned above by citing the movie Pursuit of Happyness, there is precious little reason to be poor in America.  Will it be difficult to get a good education if you&#039;re a latch-key kid who never knows when his next meal will come?  Of course.  I&#039;m not naive.  But it is not impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep.  That&#39;s why the bulk of our giving outside our church offering goes to Compassion kids.  Compassion has a track record of actually doing what they say they&#39;ll do &#8211; they feed, clothe and educate kids who, through no fault of their own, are in extreme poverty.  </p>
<p>As I mentioned above by citing the movie Pursuit of Happyness, there is precious little reason to be poor in America.  Will it be difficult to get a good education if you&#39;re a latch-key kid who never knows when his next meal will come?  Of course.  I&#39;m not naive.  But it is not impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: datroxell</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84781</link>
		<dc:creator>datroxell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84781</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thine, O Lord is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Thine is the dominion, O Lord, and Thou dost exalt Thyself as head over all.  Both riches and honor come from Thee, and Thou dost rule over all, and in Thy hand is power and might; and it lies in Thy hand to make great, and to strengthen everyone.&quot;  I Chronicles 29:11, 12&lt;br&gt;If we believe that God is sovereign, then you are concluding that government would do better than God at being just.  I don&#039;t think that you could produce evidence that any of the many socialist states in existence are doing that.&lt;br&gt;You also make an assumption that all rich only exploit those they hire/manage, either directly or indirectly.  And you also make a corollary assumption that all poor work hard.  Both are assumptions are false.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Thine, O Lord is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Thine is the dominion, O Lord, and Thou dost exalt Thyself as head over all.  Both riches and honor come from Thee, and Thou dost rule over all, and in Thy hand is power and might; and it lies in Thy hand to make great, and to strengthen everyone.&#8221;  I Chronicles 29:11, 12<br />If we believe that God is sovereign, then you are concluding that government would do better than God at being just.  I don&#39;t think that you could produce evidence that any of the many socialist states in existence are doing that.<br />You also make an assumption that all rich only exploit those they hire/manage, either directly or indirectly.  And you also make a corollary assumption that all poor work hard.  Both are assumptions are false.</p>
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		<title>By: squeaky</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84777</link>
		<dc:creator>squeaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84777</guid>
		<description>&quot;Have you even asked why the poor person you give this money to is poor? &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Have you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Have you even asked why the poor person you give this money to is poor? &#8220;</p>
<p>Have you?</p>
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		<title>By: JoannaCW</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84774</link>
		<dc:creator>JoannaCW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84774</guid>
		<description>&quot;What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. &quot;  Yes indeed.  When some people are considered &#039;too good&#039; to do manual labor and yet expect to receive physical sustenance--not to mention a lot of luxury goods--then other people are forced to to more than their share of physically taxing work for little compensation.   Taking a few luxuries from the former group, and providing better health care and somewhat more of a safety net for the people in the latter group, does not remedy this basic injustice, but at least it&#039;s a palliative measure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. &#8221;  Yes indeed.  When some people are considered &#39;too good&#39; to do manual labor and yet expect to receive physical sustenance&#8211;not to mention a lot of luxury goods&#8211;then other people are forced to to more than their share of physically taxing work for little compensation.   Taking a few luxuries from the former group, and providing better health care and somewhat more of a safety net for the people in the latter group, does not remedy this basic injustice, but at least it&#39;s a palliative measure.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric77</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84767</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84767</guid>
		<description>Come on, you know that Madoff and other crooks are really the norm.  Everyone who acquired wealth did so by ripping someone else off.  It&#039;s so much easier to make argument this way.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on, you know that Madoff and other crooks are really the norm.  Everyone who acquired wealth did so by ripping someone else off.  It&#39;s so much easier to make argument this way.  <img src='http://blog.sojo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: cpd</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84763</link>
		<dc:creator>cpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84763</guid>
		<description>&quot;Spare us the pseudo-Calvinist theological garbage about the poor being the authors of their own just misfortune...&quot;  I never said it was from Calvin - seems like common sense to me.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re talking about three specific people - I&#039;m talking about are the regular people who have worked hard, earned money that now the government wants to take.  Not billionaires.  Regular folks who own the businesses or work for businesses to support their families.  Where does the scripture ever say wealth raiding is permissible?  People are to contribute individually.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sorry you&#039;re so mad about this.  I wonder why that is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Spare us the pseudo-Calvinist theological garbage about the poor being the authors of their own just misfortune&#8230;&#8221;  I never said it was from Calvin &#8211; seems like common sense to me.</p>
<p>You&#39;re talking about three specific people &#8211; I&#39;m talking about are the regular people who have worked hard, earned money that now the government wants to take.  Not billionaires.  Regular folks who own the businesses or work for businesses to support their families.  Where does the scripture ever say wealth raiding is permissible?  People are to contribute individually.</p>
<p>Sorry you&#39;re so mad about this.  I wonder why that is?</p>
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		<title>By: NMRod</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84762</link>
		<dc:creator>NMRod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84762</guid>
		<description>The Three Penny Opera gang of billionaire financial finaglers and their &quot;Rush&quot; to reward themselves for their Madoff mendacities are trying to saddle everyone else with the debts they have sown to the wind, have everyone else reap thir whirlwind.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Spare us the pseudo-Calvinist theological garbage about the poor being the authors of their own just misfortune, while the super-rich exploiters are simply enjoying the just rewards of a generous God for their own obvious moral infallibility.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well-versed in the temptations of great wealth, they have such moral concern for the character of the poor that they do everything they can to make sure that those will never be similarly tempted and fail. Generous to many faults, they take that enormous burden of the corrosive properties of great wealth upon their own sacrificial selves.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To Bernie and the legion of mini-Madoffs, the Puritans&#039; Wealth Jesus proclaims: &quot;Well done, My just and faithful servants!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Well done, Sirs, well done! And as my servant Conrad Black has observed, (he being currently engaged in penitence and contemplation) &#039;What a splendid conveyance of wealth it has been!&#039;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Three Penny Opera gang of billionaire financial finaglers and their &#8220;Rush&#8221; to reward themselves for their Madoff mendacities are trying to saddle everyone else with the debts they have sown to the wind, have everyone else reap thir whirlwind.</p>
<p>Spare us the pseudo-Calvinist theological garbage about the poor being the authors of their own just misfortune, while the super-rich exploiters are simply enjoying the just rewards of a generous God for their own obvious moral infallibility.</p>
<p>Well-versed in the temptations of great wealth, they have such moral concern for the character of the poor that they do everything they can to make sure that those will never be similarly tempted and fail. Generous to many faults, they take that enormous burden of the corrosive properties of great wealth upon their own sacrificial selves.</p>
<p>To Bernie and the legion of mini-Madoffs, the Puritans&#39; Wealth Jesus proclaims: &#8220;Well done, My just and faithful servants!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Well done, Sirs, well done! And as my servant Conrad Black has observed, (he being currently engaged in penitence and contemplation) &#39;What a splendid conveyance of wealth it has been!&#39;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SisterMarie</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84755</link>
		<dc:creator>SisterMarie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84755</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, we could return to the policies of Tricky Dick Nixon who used the IRS to investigate the tax returns of his political opponents and in which Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson helped to ensure that Thomas Eagleton&#039;s bout with depression was publicized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, we could return to the policies of Tricky Dick Nixon who used the IRS to investigate the tax returns of his political opponents and in which Pat Buchanan and Chuck Colson helped to ensure that Thomas Eagleton&#39;s bout with depression was publicized.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84753</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84753</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s my thing.  Every big business has a public affairs arm.  Do people think governmental affairs officials exist to make sure Congress does nothing? I&#039;ve worked on at least two-dozen public affairs campaigns.  Only once was I arguing for the status quo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s my thing.  Every big business has a public affairs arm.  Do people think governmental affairs officials exist to make sure Congress does nothing? I&#39;ve worked on at least two-dozen public affairs campaigns.  Only once was I arguing for the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: xfree9</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84752</link>
		<dc:creator>xfree9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84752</guid>
		<description>:-)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Consequences matter more than intentions. Unfortunately the consequences of such a bill only stimulates the politically well-connected and not everyone. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hey Wallis, if you&#039;re about equal tax burden, how about a flat tax for all adults, with no special favors for being single or being married?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://blog.sojo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Consequences matter more than intentions. Unfortunately the consequences of such a bill only stimulates the politically well-connected and not everyone. </p>
<p>Hey Wallis, if you&#39;re about equal tax burden, how about a flat tax for all adults, with no special favors for being single or being married?</p>
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		<title>By: kevin47</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84751</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84751</guid>
		<description>If only IRS audits were this cavalier. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Q1) Do you have good intentions?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A) Yes sir!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Q2) Do you agree with our political viewpoints?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A) Absolutely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If only IRS audits were this cavalier. </p>
<p>Q1) Do you have good intentions?</p>
<p>A) Yes sir!</p>
<p>Q2) Do you agree with our political viewpoints?</p>
<p>A) Absolutely.</p>
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		<title>By: xfree9</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84749</link>
		<dc:creator>xfree9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84749</guid>
		<description>Forget the redistribution part, what about the immoral amount of spending of money the government doesn&#039;t have. Forget that the government &quot;earns&quot; no income anyway, we&#039;re running A DEFICIT people! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Does anybody have a moral conscience when it comes to such a &quot;moral document&quot; as a budget?! It&#039;s absolute insanity the amount we&#039;re spending. This is not only more of the same of the past eight years, it&#039;s a jump further off the cliff of insanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forget the redistribution part, what about the immoral amount of spending of money the government doesn&#39;t have. Forget that the government &#8220;earns&#8221; no income anyway, we&#39;re running A DEFICIT people! </p>
<p>Does anybody have a moral conscience when it comes to such a &#8220;moral document&#8221; as a budget?! It&#39;s absolute insanity the amount we&#39;re spending. This is not only more of the same of the past eight years, it&#39;s a jump further off the cliff of insanity.</p>
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		<title>By: xfree9</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84748</link>
		<dc:creator>xfree9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84748</guid>
		<description>I would hug you if you were in the same room as me. That quote is succinct, poignant, and apt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would hug you if you were in the same room as me. That quote is succinct, poignant, and apt.</p>
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		<title>By: datroxell</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84747</link>
		<dc:creator>datroxell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84747</guid>
		<description>I agree with your post.  the following is a quote I believe shows a great deal of wisdom.  I wish more people would apply wisdom as well as empathy to help the poor.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The late Dr. Adrian Rogers (1931 to 2005) Memphis, TN, offered the following observation several years ago and it bears great Significance today.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the rich out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend is about the end of any nation.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;You cannot multiply the wealth by dividing it&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your post.  the following is a quote I believe shows a great deal of wisdom.  I wish more people would apply wisdom as well as empathy to help the poor.</p>
<p>The late Dr. Adrian Rogers (1931 to 2005) Memphis, TN, offered the following observation several years ago and it bears great Significance today.</p>
<p>&#8220;You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the rich out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend is about the end of any nation.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;You cannot multiply the wealth by dividing it&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: letjusticerolldown</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84745</link>
		<dc:creator>letjusticerolldown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84745</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do they believe that a fairer distribution of capitalism’s bounty is essential to repairing a sick economy?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Jim asserts that is the question to guide our budget audit.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For clarity&#039;s sake--I am assuming the measure, then, is whether the budget provides a fairer distribution of capitalism&#039;s bounty.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Frankly, I am very surprised Jim goes to that point. There are a host of pundit/critics making a fundamental charge that this is the basic goal of the administration--the redistribution of wealth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And you assert that this is the fundamental moral measure of the budget???&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If the government confiscated all wealth and granted each person $200 per month--there would be absolutely fair distribution of wealth. Is that the desire?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To be fair the question simply asks for a fairer distribution. So if that is the audit measure--what is the ideal distribution so we know if this gets us there.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But secondly, I thought a budget described how the assets of the government would be spent.  I am unclear how the budget process gets at a redistribution.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I believe there are foundational government responsibilities that serve the common good. I believe that in common we are to define those responsibilities and then apply a system of taxation to pay for those commitments. I believe in progressive taxation--but only as a means to pay for our common commitments. Not with the goal of equitable distribution of wealth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The capacity to bring &quot;balance&quot; in a massively complex global order depends on controlling far more than government ought to be controlling.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By demanding so much of government I believe you essentially doom it to failure.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t take this as an ounce of defense for the way budgets have been or where Federal priorities have been. I am just befuddled at what you are laying out as the basis for audit--and the scale of government you are after.  I don&#039;t doubt for a second the legitimate desire for justice -- but equitable distribution through massive government control of society is profoundly dangerous in my thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do they believe that a fairer distribution of capitalism’s bounty is essential to repairing a sick economy?&#8221;</p>
<p>Jim asserts that is the question to guide our budget audit.</p>
<p>For clarity&#39;s sake&#8211;I am assuming the measure, then, is whether the budget provides a fairer distribution of capitalism&#39;s bounty.</p>
<p>Frankly, I am very surprised Jim goes to that point. There are a host of pundit/critics making a fundamental charge that this is the basic goal of the administration&#8211;the redistribution of wealth.</p>
<p>And you assert that this is the fundamental moral measure of the budget???</p>
<p>If the government confiscated all wealth and granted each person $200 per month&#8211;there would be absolutely fair distribution of wealth. Is that the desire?</p>
<p>To be fair the question simply asks for a fairer distribution. So if that is the audit measure&#8211;what is the ideal distribution so we know if this gets us there.</p>
<p>But secondly, I thought a budget described how the assets of the government would be spent.  I am unclear how the budget process gets at a redistribution.</p>
<p>I believe there are foundational government responsibilities that serve the common good. I believe that in common we are to define those responsibilities and then apply a system of taxation to pay for those commitments. I believe in progressive taxation&#8211;but only as a means to pay for our common commitments. Not with the goal of equitable distribution of wealth.</p>
<p>The capacity to bring &#8220;balance&#8221; in a massively complex global order depends on controlling far more than government ought to be controlling.</p>
<p>By demanding so much of government I believe you essentially doom it to failure.</p>
<p>Don&#39;t take this as an ounce of defense for the way budgets have been or where Federal priorities have been. I am just befuddled at what you are laying out as the basis for audit&#8211;and the scale of government you are after.  I don&#39;t doubt for a second the legitimate desire for justice &#8212; but equitable distribution through massive government control of society is profoundly dangerous in my thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: datroxell</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84744</link>
		<dc:creator>datroxell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84744</guid>
		<description>This is a very telling post.  Giving moral stamp of approval to the Obama budget.  Suddenly it is moral to increase the national debt to even more unprecedented percentages (not to mention actual dollars) than ever before?  That is not moral in my view of all that the scripture teaches about finances.&lt;br&gt;And it is moral it increase taxation on those who pay 80% of the income tax even though they make only 20% of the income?  I&#039;ve even heard that 40% of the working people don&#039;t pay ANY income tax?  This is moral?&lt;br&gt;And we have been fighting the war on poverty since the 60&quot;s and yet it continues to grow worse.  Would it not be moral to stop and analyze if the programs are working?  Or are they making them more dependent on government, hence building a greater voting block?&lt;br&gt;And it is moral to seek to destroy private charitable organizations by decreasing the deductions the &quot;undeserving rich&quot; can get for them.  (cpd post a very good question on this above).  This whole scenario is contrary to the sharing described in Acts where Christians voluntarily gave to help their poor (only those who wer among them) and as the story of Ananias and Sapphira shows, they were free to keep their property and once sold to give as much as they wanted.  They were executed by God for the lie that they had given all, not whether or not, nor how much they gave.  Again I find Jim&#039;s moral yardstick poorly calibrated with the Scripture.&lt;br&gt;Lastly, IF through government we could &quot;save&quot; all from poverty, but could not also present the gospel of Jesus Christ (as our government cannot) to save their souls, is that not immoral in light of what Christ came to do?&lt;br&gt;My suggestion would be that if Jim truly wants to help the poor, he would seek government policy that would encourage giving to the local church so that it could reach the  poor in their community with physical needs and the gospel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very telling post.  Giving moral stamp of approval to the Obama budget.  Suddenly it is moral to increase the national debt to even more unprecedented percentages (not to mention actual dollars) than ever before?  That is not moral in my view of all that the scripture teaches about finances.<br />And it is moral it increase taxation on those who pay 80% of the income tax even though they make only 20% of the income?  I&#39;ve even heard that 40% of the working people don&#39;t pay ANY income tax?  This is moral?<br />And we have been fighting the war on poverty since the 60&#8243;s and yet it continues to grow worse.  Would it not be moral to stop and analyze if the programs are working?  Or are they making them more dependent on government, hence building a greater voting block?<br />And it is moral to seek to destroy private charitable organizations by decreasing the deductions the &#8220;undeserving rich&#8221; can get for them.  (cpd post a very good question on this above).  This whole scenario is contrary to the sharing described in Acts where Christians voluntarily gave to help their poor (only those who wer among them) and as the story of Ananias and Sapphira shows, they were free to keep their property and once sold to give as much as they wanted.  They were executed by God for the lie that they had given all, not whether or not, nor how much they gave.  Again I find Jim&#39;s moral yardstick poorly calibrated with the Scripture.<br />Lastly, IF through government we could &#8220;save&#8221; all from poverty, but could not also present the gospel of Jesus Christ (as our government cannot) to save their souls, is that not immoral in light of what Christ came to do?<br />My suggestion would be that if Jim truly wants to help the poor, he would seek government policy that would encourage giving to the local church so that it could reach the  poor in their community with physical needs and the gospel.</p>
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		<title>By: cpd</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84743</link>
		<dc:creator>cpd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84743</guid>
		<description>&quot;I believe it is time to stop helping the undeserving rich...&quot;  Who, exactly, are the &quot;undeserving rich&quot;?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This sounds like government-sponsored theft.  You&#039;re going to take from someone with wealth and give it to someone without.  Have you even asked why the poor person you give this money to is poor?  Certainly there could be valid reasons - but it could also be because the person has made bad decision and we do reap what we sow.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ever seen Pursuit of Happyness?  That movie (and the true story behind it) debunks this entire post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I believe it is time to stop helping the undeserving rich&#8230;&#8221;  Who, exactly, are the &#8220;undeserving rich&#8221;?  </p>
<p>This sounds like government-sponsored theft.  You&#39;re going to take from someone with wealth and give it to someone without.  Have you even asked why the poor person you give this money to is poor?  Certainly there could be valid reasons &#8211; but it could also be because the person has made bad decision and we do reap what we sow.</p>
<p>Ever seen Pursuit of Happyness?  That movie (and the true story behind it) debunks this entire post.</p>
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		<title>By: nuclearferret</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84742</link>
		<dc:creator>nuclearferret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84742</guid>
		<description>I guess we are progressing to government budgeting under Obama not only as a matter of politics and policy, but framing so that if you oppose the budget, you are taking an immoral position.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Because Warren Buffet says something, as demonstrated by HIS results in the market, doesn&#039;t make it correct, either.  The Federal budget depends on payroll taxes and income taxes.  The receptionist isn&#039;t paying income taxes any more; he/she is a net recipient in the system now.  The taxes they are paying are state and local taxes, which Obama&#039;s budget does nothing to correct because it isn&#039;t within their realm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we are progressing to government budgeting under Obama not only as a matter of politics and policy, but framing so that if you oppose the budget, you are taking an immoral position.  </p>
<p>Because Warren Buffet says something, as demonstrated by HIS results in the market, doesn&#39;t make it correct, either.  The Federal budget depends on payroll taxes and income taxes.  The receptionist isn&#39;t paying income taxes any more; he/she is a net recipient in the system now.  The taxes they are paying are state and local taxes, which Obama&#39;s budget does nothing to correct because it isn&#39;t within their realm.</p>
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		<title>By: nuclearferret</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/03/02/our-moral-audit-of-the-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-84741</link>
		<dc:creator>nuclearferret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=6662#comment-84741</guid>
		<description>Throw stockholders under the bus?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Do you not think they are part of the economy, either?  Or just the wealthy are stockholders, especially as investors in banks, once considered a fairly stable investment vehicle?  Why not throw the homeowners who &quot;purchased&quot; homes under the bus as well, and let the banks simply deal with the real asset instead of the paper of a mortgage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throw stockholders under the bus?</p>
<p>Do you not think they are part of the economy, either?  Or just the wealthy are stockholders, especially as investors in banks, once considered a fairly stable investment vehicle?  Why not throw the homeowners who &#8220;purchased&#8221; homes under the bus as well, and let the banks simply deal with the real asset instead of the paper of a mortgage?</p>
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