Atheist Bus Ads Arrive in Seattle

by Eugene Cho 03-24-2009

To support and amplify the already pervasive non-religious reputation of Seattle, the atheist bus ads are set to arrive. To refresh your memory, read my posts from recent months about these bus ads from the U.K.: There’s Probably No God, and then of course the Christian response: The Atheist vs. Christian Bus Ads…

I suspect that in the near future, some Christian group or folks here in Seattle will fund a set of new ads in response to these ads. And then at that point, I’d like to launch my own campaign and Web site called:

http://can’twefindbetterthingstoinvestourmoneyinlike-homelesspovertywatereducationmalariaetc.com

Don’t buy that url. It’s mine. Anyway, in an earlier post, I shared three reasons why I think these ads can be good:

1. Christians shouldn’t feel entitled to anything. We live in a larger marketplace — if you will — and we need to compete to have our voice expressed and heard. Maybe it’s my upbringing in San Francisco and living the past 12 years in Seattle, but while at times it’s tiresome, I enjoy living in a culture and context where the culture isn’t dominated by the christianese subculture. Being a follower of Christ isn’t part of the cultural expectation but a choice that one must live out.

2. I find it funny that “atheists” are identified by an opposition to the belief of God. It’s a reactive belief system. To atheists: What is your purpose?

3. Conversation. They’ve invested tons of money in these advertisements and, frankly, it’s probably been the greatest recent catalyst for conversation about God for many people and churches. It’s like free advertisement for theists and Christians.

But seriously, we don’t have to go through this in every international city, do we?

From the Seattle PI: Atheists are about to take the city for a ride.

The bus is the pulpit and the bus riders the congregation. A group called Seattle Atheists is planning to display ads inside 40 different city buses. Its message: there’s a community for atheists, too.

“There is a group out there that get together and we talk. There is a sense of community for those who are atheists,” said member Paul Case.

Seattle Atheists are working to rally those who share their thought. A Christian organizer suggested April Fool’s Day as the launch date for the ads.

“He said, ‘What these atheists need is their own holiday. How about April 1st? Yeah, April 1st sounds about right,’” Case said.

The words on the ads are intended to stir thought, not controversy.

One carries the words of Susan B. Anthony: “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”

Another features an Albert Einstein quote: “If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.”

“In fact, we do like to build bridges with people who are religious,” Case said.

Pastor Bill Berger of All Saints Church agrees the ads will trigger conversations.

“I think it’s very honest and it’s an open dialogue,” he said.

Berger believes the bus stamps will likely preach to the choir.

“Much more nuanced than just saying, ‘Here’s what we believe.’ We’re going to do it in a nice way. Christians around the world are trying to be nice about what they believe in, as well its strategy,” said Berger.

Believers send missionaries. Atheist send messages.

“It’s a faith talk. They have faith to believe that there isn’t a God,” said Berger. “What would people think if Christians put up ‘This is what we believe in’ on the city bus, how would we be received? I think that would be an interesting take on this whole thing as well.”

Eugene Cho, a second-generation Korean-American, is the founder and lead pastor of Quest Church in Seattle and the executive director of Q Cafe, an innovative nonprofit neighborhood café and music venue. He and his wife are also launching a grassroots humanitarian organization to fight global poverty. You can stalk him at his blog or follow him on Twitter.

Categories: Theology

Tags: atheist, atheists, bus ads, Campaign, Christian, Christians, church, churches, city buses, culture, dialogue, God, Seattle, seattle pi

hammerud

Here are a few thoughts for dialogue with Atheists: Apart from God nothing matters, all is vanity (empty, without permanent value, and leads to frustration). Gary Smalley, a Christian counselor, came to think about God as a college student when someone asked him a couple of questions: the first was "Out of all that can be known in the universe, all that is knowable, what percent of that do you think you know?" He realized that he knew only a tiny, tiny fraction of a percent of all that can be known. The second question was, "Do you think it is possible that out of all that is knowable that you admit you do not know, there could be a personal God?" Those questions led him to seek and come to a personal knowledge of God through Jesus Christ. An interesting quote from Blaise Pascal, one of the great minds of history, states that "Reasons last step is the recognition that there are an infinite number of things that are beyond it. It is merely feeble if it does not go as far as to realize that." When one thinks about it, a person really cannot know there is no God unless he is God, and he isn't, so he doesn't know. I guess my question to an Atheist would be "Since any human being knows virtually nothing of all that conceivably can be known, why, based on such finite knowledge, embrace Atheism when the result of such a life is vanity?" I would also point out that what we can see points to a Creator -- simply draw a clear inference (Romans 1:20). The issue of knowing God boils down to the heart, as Warren Wiersbe stated, "the heart of the matter is the matter of the heart." When one comes to know God via the heart response to the gospel, the intellect falls into place.

Siamang

Hammerud, you wrote:

"Here are a few thoughts for dialogue with Atheists:"

And then you proceeded to *not* dialog, but to sermonize. A dialog includes listening, and any so-called dialog that begins with a list of how you're right and your dialog partner is wrong is a monologue.

If you want to know what I believe and why, ask me. Don't tell me.

Now, you've come at us with this idea that our beliefs are as a result of vanity, and empty, without permanent value? In that case, I would remind you of the code of conduct for posts on this site, and ask you to extend us the benefit of the doubt.

hammerud

Sorry if I offended you, but "thoughts for dialogue" and "dialogue"
are two different things. Also, on "without God all of life is vanity
-- empty, without permanent value, and leading to frustration" -- that
realization is what caused me to seek God, and God revealed Himself to
me -- 42 years ago. Life made no sense to me at that time -- Get up,
work, buy food, eat, sleep, get up , work, buy food, eat, sleep, over
and over and then die. Bad people die, good people die, no judgment,
and nothing matters. Anyway, on the concept that life without God is
vanity, see the book of Ecclesiastes. The vanity of life apart from
God is the point of Ecclesiastes, and it is God's word. I may have
sermonized, but I think there are a couple of points there worthy of
consideration if you are an Atheist.

Siamang

I'll take your answer as meaning that you do not wish a dialog, you merely wish us to consider your thoughts.

I have considered your thoughts.

hammerud

You can dialogue if you want. I'm not sure why you infer from my
answer that I don't want to dialogue since I was not addressing the
question.

squeaky

To be honest, I could see Siaming's initial response coming from a mile away. That said, I think I understand where you are coming from.

It's not so much what you said, I don't think, as it is how you said it. Perhaps a better approach would be to turn your statements into questions. You two seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot, but I hope you will be able to continue the dialogue.

hammerud

Those are good points. Thanks for the wisdom you shared.

squeaky

I didn't get the sense s/he was shutting off conversation--actually, just the opposite. hammerud made some statements that are actually not unusual for Christians to make concerning Atheists. You then responded concerning why you didn't appreciate the statements. s/he tried to then further clarify the statements.

You make good points, Siamang, and I wouldn't give up on the dialogue just yet. I'd look at it more as an opportunity to clarify some pretty common misconceptions among the Christian community. hammerud was mostly telling you about his/her life experiences.

I do think a dialogue could occur here--if you both stay open-minded, and I get the impression that you both are trying to still.

As a Christian, it is good to understand the arguments that don't fly amongst Atheists--particularly the ones that are considered offensive, and why--so your perspective is definitely welcome.

Siamang

It's not that the statements are offensive to me... it's that they fall into the category of starting out like literally hundreds of conversations I've had so far with online believers. It's the "if they just heard *my* story, they'd come around to Jesus" conversation. Notice that I haven't posted "I've you'd just heard my story, you'd be a nonbeliever" post.

I think "yes, I have considered your thoughts" is the best way I can give a polite response to one of those type of posts unless I want to get into an argument or a debate, which I find non-helpful.

Understanding is what I am after, not argument and not conversion (of you OR me). To that end, I've developed a style of discussion (not that I always stick to it, but I do try), that attempts non-debate, and emphasizes questions and de-emphasizes statements that are non "I"-statements. (As in, 'I feel this', or 'I think that'."

I have come here on what I recognize is a primarily Christian blog, to comment on a story about atheism. I realize I am somewhat of an outsider here... so I come with some groundrules of my own that keep me on my best behavior. I don't come here to convert.

My main rules are that I will answer any question about me or my beliefs, but by the same token I ask to be asked, not told, what I believe, and I will gently parry away attempts to convert me, rather than respond in kind with an attempt to convert believers.

I don't have time to fight out my one-thousand-and-first failed conversion attempt.

I've got a black-belt in internet religion debating. It's not what I'm here for.

squeaky

Yeah--I understand--I used to frequent an atheist blog for awhile, so it was in those exchanges that I learned about what Christians get wrong about atheism. Which is why I encourage the exchange because it is something I want Christians to understand. I tend to cringe at the typical stereotypes, and I do think attempts to understand each other are far more productive than attempts to convert each other. Too many stereotypes being thrown back and forth at each other--not near enough dialogue.

I can understand why you would be tired of it, though. I do think on this site, you will probably find more open-minded dialogue than you might in most Christian sites. Many of the regulars here come from a very broad range of perspectives on Christianity and tend away from a black and white approach to the world. So hopefully you'll stick around a bit! We can be snarky, but we're overall a friendly bunch.

hammerud

Siamang, I want to apologize for the tone of some of my responses. I did not realize that anyone holding an atheistic position was reading this blog. I feel bad that I was sort of rude. Please accept my apology.

Siamang

Thanks. I appreciate it.

hammerud

You're welcome Siamang.

squeaky

Thanks guys--that was really cool!

MikePC

Great thoughts Eugene. I totally agree. The atheist bus ads are an invitation, not a threat. And there are way better things for Christians to be spending their money on than angry response ads.

canucklehead

These have been running on city buses here in Calgary for about a month now. A Muslim group is now running counter ads - their website = www.godexists.ca

I wrote a column suggesting it had been a long time since the sight of a city bus brought God to mind for the average Joe so bring em on

Richard_Wade

Hi Eugene,
Thank you for this very positive post. As an atheist, I would like to answer your question in item number two. You said:

2. I find it funny that “atheists” are identified by an opposition to the belief of God. It’s a reactive belief system. To atheists: What is your purpose?

I think this comment indicates a misconception that many very devoted Christians or followers of Christ seem to have about atheists in general: They seem to assume that atheists are a symmetrical counterpart to themselves, thinking that atheism is as important to atheists as Christianity or following Christ is to them. It is not. For you, Eugene, expressing your faith and living according to your religious beliefs is probably a large percentage of all that you are about. I think that for most atheists, our lack of belief is a relatively tiny part of all that we are about. Most atheists are many other things first: We are men, women, husbands, wives, parents, citizens, patriots, workers, professionals, students, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, friends, lovers, neighbors, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, club members, and a host of many other “identities,” and waaaay down the list somewhere we are also atheists.

Most atheists only become active about atheism and bring that identity to the forefront when our rights or our friends’ rights are being violated because of a religious belief being imposed inappropriately. Once that is resolved, for most of us our atheism returns into the background and we resume being all those other things.

So to answer your question, Eugene, our purpose is to love and support our families, be there for our friends, do our work well, help the less fortunate, learn all that we can, support our community and the social issues we favor, and enjoy the good things in life. These and more are purposes that I am confident you can understand and probably share.

The various atheist ad campaigns around the world are an expression of a newly found awareness that we are a much larger minority than we formerly thought, and that we can, by shrugging off our fear and asserting our presence, begin to free ourselves of the prejudice, mistrust and disdain which society has laid upon us for millennia, so that we can more freely fulfill those much more important purposes that I listed. At this stage, I think the ads and posters are much more about finding and encouraging each other, and are not so much about attempting to convince believers to stop believing.

Again, Eugene, thank you for this post and most of all, thank you for actually asking atheists a sincere question. So many theists come to atheists and atheist sites to tell us what we think, feel and do, rather than to ask us what we think, feel and do. It is only by taking that humble stance and asking each other that we can come to understand each other, and after discovering the many things we have in common, we can work together for a better society.

I wish you well in your life, your love, and your work.

squeaky

Thanks for your very thoughtful post. My experience has been that both sides of this debate have a minority who are very vocal and in-your-face, but they don't speak for the majority. Of course, since they are the loudest voices, they are who we hear, and also are the ones who misrepresent the majority.

gribblemunchkin

Points 1 and 3 i agree with.

Point 2 i agree with Richard Wade but would add that atheism isn't, as you seem to believe, a belief system. We don't believe in anything from atheism. We have no rituals, no tenants of faith, no culture, no traditions. We simply don't believe what you do. Thats it. Period. I happen to be a transhumanist. Thats my belief system. I am also an atheist.
Secondly, of course atheism is reactive. We only express our atheism when religion intrudes unduly in our lives. This might be street preachers, religious rules or laws (such as Utahs blue laws), politicians waving the god stick when they are supposed to represent all the citizens in their areas, not just the christians (especially when they are vile cretins like Tom Delay or George Bush), etc.

And Hammerund. You need to think your arguement through, you don't believe in god the creator. You believe in the CHRISTIAN god, your arguement works just as well for all the other thousands of creator gods. And given the number of them that there are, odds are you've picked the wrong god.
While you are right to say that there is much we don't know about our universe, what we DO know shows no sign of any kind of god. In fact where religion makes a claim that touches on an area science can speak about, science is always right and religion invariably wrong. Evolution/intelligent design, age of the planet, the great flood, breeding stripes into cows, all that jazz.

squeaky

"In fact where religion makes a claim that touches on an area science can speak about, science is always right and religion invariably wrong. "

That's true of young earth creationism and a very narrow view of Biblical interpretation, but ultimately creation itself can neither prove nor disprove God's existence. Neither can science, as the question is outside the realm of scientific inquiry.