Comments on: M2EP Live: We’re on the Inside http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/ A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:43:19 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: xfree9 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-112015 xfree9 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:14:57 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-112015 I appreciate your words here. You added much value to my own sentiments, and probably in a more constructive way. This stuff just makes me upset. Christianity was never about acquiring power. Both the Left and Right seem to be all about acquiring power. I appreciate your words here. You added much value to my own sentiments, and probably in a more constructive way. This stuff just makes me upset. Christianity was never about acquiring power. Both the Left and Right seem to be all about acquiring power.

]]> By: Eric77 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-112016 Eric77 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:08:48 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-112016 The reason their gospel is inadequate or, at least, incomplete, is that they consider justice done merely when there is no more poverty. This is an incomplete definition of justice compared to how Jesus (and the early Christians who knew him) conducted his ministry. I don’t think they fully and carefully consider the means used enough. If their allies in powerful government positions have to threaten people with jail time to get them to send some of the resources God has blessed them with to the federal government so that the government can then use a fraction of those resources to assist people of lesser means then that is an acceptable price to pay, in their minds. They ignore the fact that <i>true</i> Biblical justice is only achieved when people voluntary make sacrifices to help those who need assistance. The reason their gospel is inadequate or, at least, incomplete, is that they consider justice done merely when there is no more poverty. This is an incomplete definition of justice compared to how Jesus (and the early Christians who knew him) conducted his ministry. I don’t think they fully and carefully consider the means used enough. If their allies in powerful government positions have to threaten people with jail time to get them to send some of the resources God has blessed them with to the federal government so that the government can then use a fraction of those resources to assist people of lesser means then that is an acceptable price to pay, in their minds. They ignore the fact that true Biblical justice is only achieved when people voluntary make sacrifices to help those who need assistance.

]]> By: xfree9 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87206 xfree9 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:14:57 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87206 I appreciate your words here. You added much value to my own sentiments, and probably in a more constructive way. This stuff just makes me upset. Christianity was never about acquiring power. Both the Left and Right seem to be all about acquiring power. I appreciate your words here. You added much value to my own sentiments, and probably in a more constructive way. This stuff just makes me upset. Christianity was never about acquiring power. Both the Left and Right seem to be all about acquiring power.

]]> By: Eric77 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87203 Eric77 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 14:08:48 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87203 The reason their gospel is inadequate or, at least, incomplete, is that they consider justice done merely when there is no more poverty. This is an incomplete definition of justice compared to how Jesus (and the early Christians who knew him) conducted his ministry. I don’t think they fully and carefully consider the means used enough. If their allies in powerful government positions have to threaten people with jail time to get them to send some of the resources God has blessed them with to the federal government so that the government can then use a fraction of those resources to assist people of lesser means then that is an acceptable price to pay, in their minds. They ignore the fact that <i>true</i> Biblical justice is only achieved when people voluntary make sacrifices to help those who need assistance. The reason their gospel is inadequate or, at least, incomplete, is that they consider justice done merely when there is no more poverty. This is an incomplete definition of justice compared to how Jesus (and the early Christians who knew him) conducted his ministry. I don’t think they fully and carefully consider the means used enough. If their allies in powerful government positions have to threaten people with jail time to get them to send some of the resources God has blessed them with to the federal government so that the government can then use a fraction of those resources to assist people of lesser means then that is an acceptable price to pay, in their minds. They ignore the fact that true Biblical justice is only achieved when people voluntary make sacrifices to help those who need assistance.

]]> By: xfree9 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87202 xfree9 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:28:30 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87202 I'm much behind Sojourners in their M2EP, but I can't help but wonder what about their gospel is so inadequate that they need the power of the White House to get this done? I don't recall Jesus asking his followers to acquire power to get the kingdom's will done (or at least using that power to coerce others to do your own will). <br><br>The title of this blog post says it all. Sojourners may want to "end poverty," but the game plan is very much about acquiring power, or having a large role in persuading those who do. The end game is honorable, biblical, and loving. This particular aspect of the game plan is just plain wrong. I'm much behind Sojourners in their M2EP, but I can't help but wonder what about their gospel is so inadequate that they need the power of the White House to get this done? I don't recall Jesus asking his followers to acquire power to get the kingdom's will done (or at least using that power to coerce others to do your own will).

The title of this blog post says it all. Sojourners may want to “end poverty,” but the game plan is very much about acquiring power, or having a large role in persuading those who do. The end game is honorable, biblical, and loving. This particular aspect of the game plan is just plain wrong.

]]> By: hammerud http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87187 hammerud Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:28:35 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87187 The insane monetary expansion being propagated by this administration will only result in increased poverty. The insane monetary expansion being propagated by this administration will only result in increased poverty.

]]> By: ando http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87185 ando Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:25:05 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87185 Agreed. Shades of James Dobson and George W. Bush. <br><br>Also, what needs to be addressed are the myriad of causes of poverty. The Democrats look at it as just throwing a lot of money at the issue, sort of like the trickle down theory that the Republicans have tried. I guess money has to trickle from somewhere, whether by force or by freedom. Agreed. Shades of James Dobson and George W. Bush.

Also, what needs to be addressed are the myriad of causes of poverty. The Democrats look at it as just throwing a lot of money at the issue, sort of like the trickle down theory that the Republicans have tried. I guess money has to trickle from somewhere, whether by force or by freedom.

]]> By: sgillesp http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87184 sgillesp Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:25:01 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87184 As a former right-wing evangelical, let me caution you right here, right now: you will have your heart broken if you expect politics to enact the kingdom of God! It's okay to talk to the politicians and even get what you can, but don't put your metaphorical eggs in their basket. The shards of what can happen is all around, and the dazed look in the eyes of people-who-just-wanted-to-stop-abortion should be educational. the kingdom of God is something different! (I know y'all know this - it's just a reminder while you're there in DC!) As a former right-wing evangelical, let me caution you right here, right now: you will have your heart broken if you expect politics to enact the kingdom of God! It's okay to talk to the politicians and even get what you can, but don't put your metaphorical eggs in their basket. The shards of what can happen is all around, and the dazed look in the eyes of people-who-just-wanted-to-stop-abortion should be educational. the kingdom of God is something different! (I know y'all know this – it's just a reminder while you're there in DC!)

]]> By: letjusticerolldown http://blog.sojo.net/2009/04/27/m2ep-live-ed-spivey-jr/comment-page-1/#comment-87180 letjusticerolldown Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:34:51 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=8190#comment-87180 Yes, this is oh so very true--IF reducing poverty is determined by someone inside the Whitehouse. Yes, this is oh so very true–IF reducing poverty is determined by someone inside the Whitehouse.

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