On the other hand – if it is true, I have no trouble placing the blame at Augustine's doorstep. Miserable man. It's a cruel irony that Christian theology has been shaped by some of the most mean-spirited, dysfunctional personalities in history. Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin (that abomination) – they took a bad situation and made it worse than it had to be.

Universalism was a fairly commonly held view among theologians in early Christianity: In the first five or six centuries of Christianity, there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Cesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality, and one (Carthage or Rome) taught the endless punishment of the lost.[3] The two major theologians opposing it were Tertullian and Augustine.[citation needed]

In the seventeenth-century and eighteenth-century Europe and America, other Christian reformers came to believe in a universally loving God and felt that God would grant all human beings salvation. They became known as the Universalists.

I took your comments as so , I see now you are going by history and the “reasons” Christians took power . As a means of forcing others to do what they believed to be right . I totally agree with you . I was speaking to perhaps you as a person running for office , and knowing that person in office has a higher accountablilty to God , in my opinion means he or she will be less likely to ly . Jimmy Carter for instance started WIC , a preogram designed to help poor women who were pregnant . I realize just because your a Christian does not make you a better President or office holder. I did not think Jimmy Carter was a good President for instance .

“”he power which He brought was something quite different – the power of self-emptying and self-sacrifice and total love. A power which only really works if it is used from the bottom up, not from the top down. “

Yes indeed . I believe those qualities would do people weel if they were in leadership .
The examples you gave were all of people who used Religion as power . I think we agree actually .

I don't think it is an accident that Jesus chose not to be part of the religious establishment (like the pharisees and saducees), not to form close relationships with the Roman authorities (like the herodians) and not to attempt to wrest power out of their hands (like the zealots). The power which He brought was something quite different – the power of self-emptying and self-sacrifice and total love. A power which only really works if it is used from the bottom up, not from the top down.

Meuring I really disagree with your belief that Christians should not seek office . And your example of what leadership I believe is from a secular view . Or possibly you are referencing leadership by Christians from what the Christian Right , religious Right tried to do . Christ gave us the example of leadership , of being in charge . He took the shoes off of his disciples and Washed THEIR feet .
To be a great leader , you need to be a great servant . I believe Christians should be in charge , much more would appear to get done that was good in my opinion .

I've even come across a reference that Zoroastrianism, in its earliest form, advocated universal redemption. I think it might have been more of a later Greco-Roman idea (but it's probably more complicated than that).

Yeah, including the book of Revelation in the NT might have been the factor most responsible for the theological nightmare conservative evangelicalism has become.

In essence the idea of hell has very primitive roots. One of the most universal aspects of human culture is the treatment of prisoners of war, enemies, criminals etc which frequently involves extended torture leading to death, slavery, sexual subjugation or assimilation/redemption. In that sense hell is a mythologizing of cultural practice.

(Although I'd suggest you look a little more closely into the history of rabbinic thought. Eternal torture isn't really a Pharisaic idea.)

Truly? A “college hazing week?” And how do you know? Were you there? I doubt it.

I saw on TV where Sean Hannity volunteered to be water-boarded and a certain amount (I don't remember exactly how much) would be paid to organizations supporting U.S. Service people for each minute that he endured the water-boarding. Later in the week, Hannity had rescinded his offer. So perhaps you might want to offer yourself to be water-boarded in order to donate money to U.S. Service people. If you do that, I would be the first person to offer you donations.