Comments on: Eschatology or Bigotry?

By: TedVothJr

TedVothJr — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:05:15 +0000

"A couple of weeks ago on Glenn Beck’s talk radio show, a woman called in to suggest that because President Obama appears to be raising the tax rate to around the same as what it was under President Clinton; is exercising some accountability mechanisms with banks and car manufacturers; and has approached the nations of the world with humility, he is a prime candidate for the Antichrist. "

This illustrates why the Church in the United States needs a robust, Biblical, eschatology now.

Many are fascinated by the Last Things, 'Prophecy', as it's colloquially called.

Bishop Tom Wright's got a good start on it, with his emphasis that going to heaven 'isn't the end of the world,' that ''There's life after life after death.' His point is that any disembodied existence with the Lord after the death of the body is temporary, an interim state, and that the final state of believers to forever is a corporeal existence in the resurrection body in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Wright derives from this encouragement for the Church to be about her Lord Jesus' business, demonstrating to the world what his Kingdom'e going to be like, preaching the gospel at all times, even using words when opportune. I know Wright's on the right track, because when I think of his coming Kingdom his Spirit urges me in his words to 'keep busy till I get back.' [Luke 19:13] 'Thy Kingdom come' in my life.

But he's been scared off eschatology by the 'Left-Behinders,' as many main-liners and liturgicals have. The Rapture isn't called such but it's in the Bible, in the first book written of the New Testament:

'13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you sorrow not, even as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so those also who sleep in Jesus God will bring with him.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, remaining till the coming of the Lord shall not prevent those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ will rise first:.

[Cf Psalm 47:5 God is gone up with a shout,
the LORD with the sound of a trumpet.]

17 Then we who are alive, remaining, will be caught up [harpagêsometha] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so we will be with the Lord for ever.

[In our Mk II resurrection bodies; Christ's present body is the Prototype.]

18 So, comfort each other with these words. 1st Thessalonians 4. MyV.'

This fits right in with the Resurrection; it's simultaneous with 1st Corinthians 15:51:

'Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed…'

We need a valid, robust, scholarly Biblical eschatology; I'm workin' on it: you'll all be the first to know.

[I was reluctant to get into eschatology myself, but (some of) the People, the Jews, are back in the Land, Palestine, and that is significant…]

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

By: TedVothJr

TedVothJr — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:05:15 +0000

By: gayost

gayost — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:43:27 +0000

You are correct that those who make predictions about the end times have failed miserably. However, your statement, as a general principle, that such folks are socially biggoted and suffer from some sort of releigious neuroses seems to make you guilty of your own brand of social bigotry.

Dispensationalism is a respected theological positon hand has some pretty bright people that make a good case for that position. One thing that can be agreed upon is that Christ will return and we are to be watchful and aware of the signs of the times. Some, in enthusiam, make predictions when they should be silent.

I think it would be good if you were more charitable in this matter.

By: ando

ando — Sat, 30 May 2009 13:43:13 +0000

A former pastor of mine gave a series of sermons on Revelations. He saw the anti-Christ as not so much a person as a way of thinking and living. We live in a time with a great reliance on institutions, be they financial, educational, government, or a myriad of others. So-called free trade plays into this one-world connection that was touted to bring peace and prosperity. These institutions take the place of the one true God in the form of our reliance and worship. Instead of thinking of a person, we should be wary of an over-reliance on governments, business, and philosophies that take us away from the worship of our Creator and Sustainer.

By: quote of the day « peace…be still

quote of the day « peace…be still — Fri, 29 May 2009 15:13:37 +0000

[...] tribulation from a thread on jim wallis’ facebook, linking to this article: eschatology or bigotry? How can you love me when I don’t believe as you do? The answer is how could I hate you? [...]

By: deartheophilus

deartheophilus — Fri, 29 May 2009 08:58:32 +0000

The beast and antichrists are different…

This might help in clarifying: http://deartheoph.blogspot.com/2009/05/anti-chr...

By: deartheophilus

deartheophilus — Fri, 29 May 2009 08:56:42 +0000

I think it is five times… better check that again! It is 5 times in 3 verses I believe. Here is my blogs about dispensationalism for any one else…

This is the beginning of the series ~ http://deartheoph.blogspot.com/2009/05/dispensa...

This is about the anti-christ and how we get what we have without it actually being scriptural ~ http://deartheoph.blogspot.com/2009/05/anti-chr...

This is about the fake tribulation ~ http://deartheoph.blogspot.com/2009/05/tribulat...

And this wraps it up (though I think I am going to do one on the rapture since everyone likes the subject) ~ http://deartheoph.blogspot.com/2009/05/last-of-...

By: JamesM

JamesM — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:00:58 +0000

I stopped believing in the Antichrist whe George W. Bush,. came out as a false positive on my anti-Christo-meter.

By: Joe_Allen_Doty

Joe_Allen_Doty — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:02:11 +0000

The number 666 in the Book of Revelation actually refers to human beings in general. In the Greek Text the word “anthropos” is used instead of “andros.” “Andros” refers to a man while “anthropos” refers to any human being.

The author of the book of “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” does not state that the number 666 is the number that will be used on credit cards, etc. I find that those who believe in the Rapture are more superstitious about the number 666 than those who don't.

By: BlueDeacon

BlueDeacon — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:51:07 +0000

Actually, that was the point — someone tried to say that VI, S and A (in another numerical system) put together stood for that.

By: Gareth Higgins: Eschatology or Bigotry? « Matthew 25 Network

Gareth Higgins: Eschatology or Bigotry? « Matthew 25 Network — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:31:59 +0000

[...] at the Sojourners’ Culture Watch blog, Gareth Higgins has an excellent post on the discourse that’s still swirling around certain segments of the evangelical Right that [...]

By: SisterMarie

SisterMarie — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:30:15 +0000

“Are then American Express, Discover and MasterCard safe?”

Yes – as long as they do not include the digits “666.”

By: slindsley

slindsley — Thu, 28 May 2009 17:49:41 +0000

Let's not forget that the word “antichrist” doesn't appear anywhere in Revelation, nor does it ever denote some “son of Satan” figure who sets out to destroy the world. The word “antichrist” appears three times in the entire Bible – in 1 and 2 John – as a label for a teacher gone astray. They were teaching a doctrine that the writer of 1 and 2 John considered to be false teaching: “against” Christ, or antichrist.

Also, you'll never see the word with a capital “A,” as if pointing out a specific person.

Just thought this would be good to add to the conversation.

By: jamesggilmore

jamesggilmore — Thu, 28 May 2009 17:33:54 +0000

Just a heads-up: I've posted a (quite supportive) response and expansion to this post on the Matthew 25 Network's blog:

http://matthew25.org/2009/05/gareth-higgins-esc...

This is a great post… most enlightening. Thanks.

By: WaveTossed

WaveTossed — Thu, 28 May 2009 16:27:30 +0000

Some people (like this woman on the radio) tossing around the word “Anti-Christ.”

As much as I might think that Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage are idiotic, I certainly do NOT see either of them as “the Anti-Christ.”

By: BlueDeacon

BlueDeacon — Thu, 28 May 2009 16:19:50 +0000

Something I just remembered: Some years ago the Christian rock band Petra, at the height of the “back-masking” controversy, placed at the beginning of one of its records a little announcement. When played backwards, it said, “Why are you looking for the devil instead of serving the LORD?”

By: tmamone

tmamone — Thu, 28 May 2009 16:18:46 +0000

Although I don't agree 100% with Obama's economic policy, I don't think that makes him the Antichrist. According to the Bible, the Beast will exalt himself higher than God, and I haven't heard President Obama say anything like that yet.

As BlueDeacon says, the most important thing is to continue doing God's work until Christ comes back.

By: BlueDeacon

BlueDeacon — Thu, 28 May 2009 15:55:05 +0000

The key point is to remember what the Bible says about the “end times”: Just be about God's business until then. Jesus in His humanity said that He didn't know when He would return, and Paul's admonition that “he who will not work will not eat” was given to people who were just sitting around waiting for that moment. All this speculation about the Antichrist — I no longer believe there is actually only one — has been a distraction.

An aside: After careful study of theology I have come to reject dispensational theology, and one of the most ridiculous prophecies about the “mark of the Beast” I've ever seen was the Visa card. (I'm not kidding — I thought after that, “Are then American Express, Discover and MasterCard safe?”)