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	<title>Comments on: Clean Energy and Security Act: If Everyone&#8217;s Unhappy, It Must Be a Good Compromise</title>
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	<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends</description>
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		<title>By: ando</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-111053</link>
		<dc:creator>ando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-111053</guid>
		<description>Some say climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time.  Last week, NPR&#039;s Talk of The Nation did a segment on shootings in inner cities.  I was surprised by the number of people calling in from different parts of the country to tell stories about shootings in their neighborhoods.  Eight-year old girls, teenagers, the elderly, the list goes on.   I would think that Christians might want to focus a little more on the here and now and figure out ways to stop these bloodbaths; otherwise, it really isn&#039;t going to matter what happens a hundred years hence.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BTW: Malaria used to be prevalent throughout the country.  It was largely eradicated -- albeit through drastic means and is now not an issue at the forefront of the US.  It has always been an issue in much of the developing world.  A NG article last year notes that perhaps one-half of all deaths throughout human history have been due to malaria or similar insect-borne pathogens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some say climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time.  Last week, NPR&#39;s Talk of The Nation did a segment on shootings in inner cities.  I was surprised by the number of people calling in from different parts of the country to tell stories about shootings in their neighborhoods.  Eight-year old girls, teenagers, the elderly, the list goes on.   I would think that Christians might want to focus a little more on the here and now and figure out ways to stop these bloodbaths; otherwise, it really isn&#39;t going to matter what happens a hundred years hence.</p>
<p>BTW: Malaria used to be prevalent throughout the country.  It was largely eradicated &#8212; albeit through drastic means and is now not an issue at the forefront of the US.  It has always been an issue in much of the developing world.  A NG article last year notes that perhaps one-half of all deaths throughout human history have been due to malaria or similar insect-borne pathogens.</p>
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		<title>By: ando</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107563</link>
		<dc:creator>ando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107563</guid>
		<description>Some say climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time.  Last week, NPR&#039;s Talk of The Nation did a segment on shootings in inner cities.  I was surprised by the number of people calling in from different parts of the country to tell stories about shootings in their neighborhoods.  Eight-year old girls, teenagers, the elderly, the list goes on.   I would think that Christians might want to focus a little more on the here and now and figure out ways to stop these bloodbaths; otherwise, it really isn&#039;t going to matter what happens a hundred years hence.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BTW: Malaria used to be prevalent throughout the country.  It was largely eradicated -- albeit through drastic means and is now not an issue at the forefront of the US.  It has always been an issue in much of the developing world.  A NG article last year notes that perhaps one-half of all deaths throughout human history have been due to malaria or similar insect-borne pathogens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some say climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time.  Last week, NPR&#39;s Talk of The Nation did a segment on shootings in inner cities.  I was surprised by the number of people calling in from different parts of the country to tell stories about shootings in their neighborhoods.  Eight-year old girls, teenagers, the elderly, the list goes on.   I would think that Christians might want to focus a little more on the here and now and figure out ways to stop these bloodbaths; otherwise, it really isn&#39;t going to matter what happens a hundred years hence.</p>
<p>BTW: Malaria used to be prevalent throughout the country.  It was largely eradicated &#8212; albeit through drastic means and is now not an issue at the forefront of the US.  It has always been an issue in much of the developing world.  A NG article last year notes that perhaps one-half of all deaths throughout human history have been due to malaria or similar insect-borne pathogens.</p>
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		<title>By: WaveTossed</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107564</link>
		<dc:creator>WaveTossed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107564</guid>
		<description>Thanks. Good article. One of the key points in the article is:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Wow, this energy thing isn’t just about global warming!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;While China develops all sorts of energy efficiency and clean energy: in the U.S. we go whole-hog on &quot;global warming&quot; and at the same time, subsidize pollution-causing companies like GM. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Our environmental policies have to be a lot more diversified that simply dealing with carbon emissions. Cutting carbon emissions while ignoring other very important environmental issues -- and the Chinese will most certainly clean our clock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. Good article. One of the key points in the article is:</p>
<p>&#8220;Wow, this energy thing isn’t just about global warming!&#8221;</p>
<p>While China develops all sorts of energy efficiency and clean energy: in the U.S. we go whole-hog on &#8220;global warming&#8221; and at the same time, subsidize pollution-causing companies like GM. </p>
<p>Our environmental policies have to be a lot more diversified that simply dealing with carbon emissions. Cutting carbon emissions while ignoring other very important environmental issues &#8212; and the Chinese will most certainly clean our clock.</p>
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		<title>By: Anothernonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107565</link>
		<dc:creator>Anothernonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107565</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05friedman.html?_r=1&amp;ref=opinion&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05fri...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05friedman.html?_r=1&#038;ref=opinion" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05fri.." rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05fri..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Anothernonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107566</link>
		<dc:creator>Anothernonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107566</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05friedman.html?_r=1&amp;ref=opinion&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05fri...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Take a look at this column by Thomas Friedman in today&#039;s New York Times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05friedman.html?_r=1&#038;ref=opinion" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05fri.." rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/opinion/05fri..</a>.</p>
<p>Take a look at this column by Thomas Friedman in today&#39;s New York Times.</p>
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		<title>By: mfrtech</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107567</link>
		<dc:creator>mfrtech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107567</guid>
		<description>&quot;Poll Shows Clean Energy Act Could Force Nearly 20 Percent of Manufacturers to Close&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://mfrtech.com/articles/2293.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://mfrtech.com/articles/2293.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Poll Shows Clean Energy Act Could Force Nearly 20 Percent of Manufacturers to Close&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://mfrtech.com/articles/2293.html" rel="nofollow">http://mfrtech.com/articles/2293.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: WaveTossed</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107568</link>
		<dc:creator>WaveTossed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107568</guid>
		<description>I can only dream of being able to buy electricity from a company that uses only wind, solar, and other renewable energy sources -- that was also affordable. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, due to the various manipulations of local politicians, we basically have a monopoly and are forced to buy electricity from one company. This company has taken advantage of its monopoly and has jacked the rates way, way high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only dream of being able to buy electricity from a company that uses only wind, solar, and other renewable energy sources &#8212; that was also affordable. </p>
<p>However, due to the various manipulations of local politicians, we basically have a monopoly and are forced to buy electricity from one company. This company has taken advantage of its monopoly and has jacked the rates way, way high.</p>
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		<title>By: Anothernonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107569</link>
		<dc:creator>Anothernonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107569</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s hoping the free market continues to fix the problem. :-) It&#039;s already given me the choice of buying my electricity from a company that uses only wind, solar and other renewable energy sources. Thus, my electric car, when I get it, will be pollution-free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#39;s hoping the free market continues to fix the problem. <img src='http://blog.sojo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  It&#39;s already given me the choice of buying my electricity from a company that uses only wind, solar and other renewable energy sources. Thus, my electric car, when I get it, will be pollution-free.</p>
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		<title>By: WaveTossed</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107570</link>
		<dc:creator>WaveTossed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107570</guid>
		<description>&quot;but we do have a choice about what kind of car we drive. As soon as I can get an electric car and charge it with renewable energy,&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s not quite that simple. No one is making completely electric cars right now. So that isn&#039;t a choice. Also, coal-firing electric plants have to make the electricity that goes into recharging and running an electric car.  And even when electric cars become available, most low/moderate income people won&#039;t be able to afford it. Of course low/moderate income people can&#039;t afford a car that gets 8 miles per gallon.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for Humvees and other cars that get 8 miles per gallon -- the free market is fixing this problem. Humvees and gas-guzzling cars/trucks have been sitting on dealers&#039; parking lots while people have been choosing to buy more energy-efficient cars. I read somewhere that the Humvee brand has been sold to China because not enough people in the U.S. are interested in a Humvee. Of course if the U.S. government keeps subsidizing these automakers who make these gas-guzzling cars, that may very well ruin the change to allow the market to fix this problem. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I said (and I think you would agree): What Michael Moore said was to let GM, Chrysler, and the others go bankrupt and stop subsidizing them. And hire the out-of-work autoworkers to build new trains and buses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but we do have a choice about what kind of car we drive. As soon as I can get an electric car and charge it with renewable energy,&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#39;s not quite that simple. No one is making completely electric cars right now. So that isn&#39;t a choice. Also, coal-firing electric plants have to make the electricity that goes into recharging and running an electric car.  And even when electric cars become available, most low/moderate income people won&#39;t be able to afford it. Of course low/moderate income people can&#39;t afford a car that gets 8 miles per gallon.</p>
<p>As for Humvees and other cars that get 8 miles per gallon &#8212; the free market is fixing this problem. Humvees and gas-guzzling cars/trucks have been sitting on dealers&#39; parking lots while people have been choosing to buy more energy-efficient cars. I read somewhere that the Humvee brand has been sold to China because not enough people in the U.S. are interested in a Humvee. Of course if the U.S. government keeps subsidizing these automakers who make these gas-guzzling cars, that may very well ruin the change to allow the market to fix this problem. </p>
<p>As I said (and I think you would agree): What Michael Moore said was to let GM, Chrysler, and the others go bankrupt and stop subsidizing them. And hire the out-of-work autoworkers to build new trains and buses.</p>
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		<title>By: Anothernonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107571</link>
		<dc:creator>Anothernonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107571</guid>
		<description>And we used to have good public transport in the US too, but the oil companies conspired to get rid of it. The LA freeways are built on what used to be streetcar routes. So our dependence on our cars isn&#039;t our fault, but we do have a choice about what kind of car we drive. As soon as I can get an electric car and charge it with renewable energy, I will do so. In the meantime, I will do everything possible to speed that day&#039;s coming. Michael Moore&#039;s plan sounds good to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And we used to have good public transport in the US too, but the oil companies conspired to get rid of it. The LA freeways are built on what used to be streetcar routes. So our dependence on our cars isn&#39;t our fault, but we do have a choice about what kind of car we drive. As soon as I can get an electric car and charge it with renewable energy, I will do so. In the meantime, I will do everything possible to speed that day&#39;s coming. Michael Moore&#39;s plan sounds good to me.</p>
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		<title>By: WaveTossed</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107572</link>
		<dc:creator>WaveTossed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107572</guid>
		<description>And if they drive a Prius or Yaris, the same happens: fouling and polluting the air with auto emissions. So should everyone ride a bike and dump their cars?  I&#039;d love to ride a bike but I am mobility-impaired. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We just had a major crash on the Washington Metro system. Nine people died and eighty people were injured because the Metro doesn&#039;t get the subsidies that the car and oil companies get. So the Metro wasn&#039;t able to do the upkeep that it needed to do. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;More Michael Moore. I heard him on an interview. His solution for GM and other auto companies demanding a bail-out: let them go bankrupt and hire the auto workers to build trains and buses for public transit. I agreed with Moore on that plan. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have visited Japan twice and got completely spoiled by their wonderful train system where a person can travel all over the country without having a car. The trains are all run by private companies and I&#039;m not sure of the arrangement with the government. All I know is that the trains run wonderfully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if they drive a Prius or Yaris, the same happens: fouling and polluting the air with auto emissions. So should everyone ride a bike and dump their cars?  I&#39;d love to ride a bike but I am mobility-impaired. </p>
<p>We just had a major crash on the Washington Metro system. Nine people died and eighty people were injured because the Metro doesn&#39;t get the subsidies that the car and oil companies get. So the Metro wasn&#39;t able to do the upkeep that it needed to do. </p>
<p>More Michael Moore. I heard him on an interview. His solution for GM and other auto companies demanding a bail-out: let them go bankrupt and hire the auto workers to build trains and buses for public transit. I agreed with Moore on that plan. </p>
<p>I have visited Japan twice and got completely spoiled by their wonderful train system where a person can travel all over the country without having a car. The trains are all run by private companies and I&#39;m not sure of the arrangement with the government. All I know is that the trains run wonderfully.</p>
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		<title>By: Anothernonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107573</link>
		<dc:creator>Anothernonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107573</guid>
		<description>Well said. To extend your smoking analogy, however, somebody who opts to drive a Hummer on his or her own nickel is still fouling my air as surely as if he or she were smoking in my presence. There is no right to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said. To extend your smoking analogy, however, somebody who opts to drive a Hummer on his or her own nickel is still fouling my air as surely as if he or she were smoking in my presence. There is no right to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: WaveTossed</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107574</link>
		<dc:creator>WaveTossed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107574</guid>
		<description>&quot;For some reason, this prospect scares a lot of people who seem to think that it will mean a loss of personal freedom. It is this position for which I have zero sympathy. The right to pollute is not God-given.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Most libertarians have a very important caveat about pollution and liberty. One&#039;s &quot;right&quot; to pollute ends where it affects someone else. If someone wants to smoke in their house and destroy their lungs -- that&#039;s fine with me. However, if they walk on the street and blow their noxious smoke in my direction, that is NOT fine. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Same with companies. They do NOT have the right to pour noxious fumes into the atmosphere or pour noxious sediments into rivers or into ther people&#039;s drinking water. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot; Nobody - nobody - has a right to own a car that gets 8 miles to the gallon just because they like feeling powerful.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Hey, if someone want to spend their own money for gas, that&#039;s their choice. As long as I don&#039;t have to subsidize their spending or the gas (or oil) that they might need. However, if my tax dollars go for subsidizing oil companies so that people can speed away in cars that get 8 miles per gallon; or if my tax dollars go for sending our soldiers overseas in a very expensive and life-taking foreign military operation in order to protect oil interests: Then this is NOT their right; they are encroaching on my rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For some reason, this prospect scares a lot of people who seem to think that it will mean a loss of personal freedom. It is this position for which I have zero sympathy. The right to pollute is not God-given.&#8221;</p>
<p>Most libertarians have a very important caveat about pollution and liberty. One&#39;s &#8220;right&#8221; to pollute ends where it affects someone else. If someone wants to smoke in their house and destroy their lungs &#8212; that&#39;s fine with me. However, if they walk on the street and blow their noxious smoke in my direction, that is NOT fine. </p>
<p>Same with companies. They do NOT have the right to pour noxious fumes into the atmosphere or pour noxious sediments into rivers or into ther people&#39;s drinking water. </p>
<p>&#8221; Nobody &#8211; nobody &#8211; has a right to own a car that gets 8 miles to the gallon just because they like feeling powerful.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hey, if someone want to spend their own money for gas, that&#39;s their choice. As long as I don&#39;t have to subsidize their spending or the gas (or oil) that they might need. However, if my tax dollars go for subsidizing oil companies so that people can speed away in cars that get 8 miles per gallon; or if my tax dollars go for sending our soldiers overseas in a very expensive and life-taking foreign military operation in order to protect oil interests: Then this is NOT their right; they are encroaching on my rights.</p>
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		<title>By: lumens</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107575</link>
		<dc:creator>lumens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107575</guid>
		<description>Godspolitics is still under Beliefnet.  It&#039;s not Disqus that makes the decisions. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And you remember incorrectly.  He was banned because he allegedly misconstrued an argument presented by an original poster.  By pure coincidence, he happens to be a Republican.  Funny how that works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Godspolitics is still under Beliefnet.  It&#39;s not Disqus that makes the decisions. </p>
<p>And you remember incorrectly.  He was banned because he allegedly misconstrued an argument presented by an original poster.  By pure coincidence, he happens to be a Republican.  Funny how that works.</p>
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		<title>By: lumens</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107576</link>
		<dc:creator>lumens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107576</guid>
		<description>&quot;I never said--or insinuated--that you lied, Kevin.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yeah, you did. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;You sincerely believe you were blocked from posting here. &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A belief I base on the fact that, when I try to post as Kevin47, I get a message that says &quot;you have been banned&quot;, and my message does not appear.  Which again, I&#039;m happy to demonstrate to you. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I did ask Disqus the reason.  They don&#039;t know, and they referred me to Sojo, but without providing any contact information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I never said&#8211;or insinuated&#8211;that you lied, Kevin.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, you did. </p>
<p>&#8220;You sincerely believe you were blocked from posting here. &#8220;</p>
<p>A belief I base on the fact that, when I try to post as Kevin47, I get a message that says &#8220;you have been banned&#8221;, and my message does not appear.  Which again, I&#39;m happy to demonstrate to you. </p>
<p>I did ask Disqus the reason.  They don&#39;t know, and they referred me to Sojo, but without providing any contact information.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckeyeDon</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107577</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckeyeDon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107577</guid>
		<description>Wolverine was banned before God&#039;s Politics moved here to the Disqus format, when it was still being hosted by Beliefnet. If my memory serves me right, the reason was because he had written some things that could have been construed as insulting to another poster here. And it was his third &quot;offense.&quot; Many of us, myself included, protested his banning, feeling that it was unjust.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But again, that all happened under Beliefnet, not here with Disqus. Since nobody to my knowledge has posted here under Disqus as Wolverine, we can&#039;t really say he was banned here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wolverine was banned before God&#39;s Politics moved here to the Disqus format, when it was still being hosted by Beliefnet. If my memory serves me right, the reason was because he had written some things that could have been construed as insulting to another poster here. And it was his third &#8220;offense.&#8221; Many of us, myself included, protested his banning, feeling that it was unjust.</p>
<p>But again, that all happened under Beliefnet, not here with Disqus. Since nobody to my knowledge has posted here under Disqus as Wolverine, we can&#39;t really say he was banned here.</p>
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		<title>By: BuckeyeDon</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107578</link>
		<dc:creator>BuckeyeDon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107578</guid>
		<description>I never said--or insinuated--that you lied, Kevin. I only said I wasn&#039;t convinced. They are not the same thing. You sincerely believe you were blocked from posting here. By repeating that assertion, you are not lying.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But having said that, did you ask Disqus for the reason(s) why you were blocked? If so, did they answer you? What reason(s) did they give?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said&#8211;or insinuated&#8211;that you lied, Kevin. I only said I wasn&#39;t convinced. They are not the same thing. You sincerely believe you were blocked from posting here. By repeating that assertion, you are not lying.</p>
<p>But having said that, did you ask Disqus for the reason(s) why you were blocked? If so, did they answer you? What reason(s) did they give?</p>
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		<title>By: weiwentg</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107579</link>
		<dc:creator>weiwentg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107579</guid>
		<description>They say the love of money is the root of all evil. People perceive that their economic security will be threatened by cap and trade. This leads to the global warming denials.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Frankly, those who deny global warming are doing great evil. This is a threat that will disproportionately hurt the poor of the world. The evidence is good enough for me to at least invoke the precautionary principle.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Additionally, we have ample time to rearrange our economy such that the effects aren&#039;t disproportionate. Without putting an explicit price on carbon, no one will do squat. With an explicit price on carbon, people will act. And the US has the resourcefulness and technical skills needed to make things happen. I&#039;m not saying the new green economy is some sort of panacea that will replace wholesale the old manufacturing economy overnight - but we have the resources to adapt. We do at least need a price signal to start the adaptation process, so I pray the Senate passes the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They say the love of money is the root of all evil. People perceive that their economic security will be threatened by cap and trade. This leads to the global warming denials.</p>
<p>Frankly, those who deny global warming are doing great evil. This is a threat that will disproportionately hurt the poor of the world. The evidence is good enough for me to at least invoke the precautionary principle.</p>
<p>Additionally, we have ample time to rearrange our economy such that the effects aren&#39;t disproportionate. Without putting an explicit price on carbon, no one will do squat. With an explicit price on carbon, people will act. And the US has the resourcefulness and technical skills needed to make things happen. I&#39;m not saying the new green economy is some sort of panacea that will replace wholesale the old manufacturing economy overnight &#8211; but we have the resources to adapt. We do at least need a price signal to start the adaptation process, so I pray the Senate passes the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: neuro_nurse</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107580</link>
		<dc:creator>neuro_nurse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107580</guid>
		<description>Sorry, it&#039;s a habit that I&#039;m NOT trying to break</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, it&#39;s a habit that I&#39;m NOT trying to break</p>
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		<title>By: Anothernonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/06/30/clean-energy-and-security-act-if-everyones-unhappy-it-must-be-a-good-compromise/comment-page-1/#comment-107581</link>
		<dc:creator>Anothernonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=9775#comment-107581</guid>
		<description>I understand. As someone who&#039;s been on board with the environmental movement since the early 70s, I share these concerns.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What virtually all of them have in common is that any effective solution is going to have to be international in scope. Nobody owns the oceans, and nobody owns the sky, so no one country can control the pollution of either. It will take coordinated, top-down efforts by all of the major industrial countries working together, and in turn setting an example for those that are now developing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For some reason, this prospect scares a lot of people who seem to think that it will mean a loss of personal freedom. It is this position for which I have zero sympathy. The right to pollute is not God-given. Nobody - nobody - has a right to own a car that gets 8 miles to the gallon just because they like feeling powerful. This belief is an idolatry that places personal freedom over respect for God&#039;s creation, and there is no credible Christian theology that supports it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand. As someone who&#39;s been on board with the environmental movement since the early 70s, I share these concerns.</p>
<p>What virtually all of them have in common is that any effective solution is going to have to be international in scope. Nobody owns the oceans, and nobody owns the sky, so no one country can control the pollution of either. It will take coordinated, top-down efforts by all of the major industrial countries working together, and in turn setting an example for those that are now developing.</p>
<p>For some reason, this prospect scares a lot of people who seem to think that it will mean a loss of personal freedom. It is this position for which I have zero sympathy. The right to pollute is not God-given. Nobody &#8211; nobody &#8211; has a right to own a car that gets 8 miles to the gallon just because they like feeling powerful. This belief is an idolatry that places personal freedom over respect for God&#39;s creation, and there is no credible Christian theology that supports it.</p>
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