I don't believe the Bible can be used to support or argue against any point of view because it is so self-contradictory–the “values” represented in the Bible range from outright conquest and genocide to “love your enemy”. Having said that, there IS one clear thread in the Bible which speaks to social justice: over and over again, the rich are condemned, and the poor are vindicated. And over and over again, some form of violence is advocated or promised as part of God's plan to establish justice–sometimes human-on-human violence directed by God, and sometimes direct violence from God. My point is this: the Biblical witness includes (though is not limited to) a call to social justice which involves force/violence.

There's certainly no call to some sort of ratio, but I do believe there is a greater call in Christianity to love the poor and oppressed, and our enemies, than to love other groups.

Diversity is not the only goal, but I do believe it to be a goal- diversity in gender, in culture, in ethnicity. I think because, if we have only one of these categories, as you say, we should question what's going on. That just doesn't represent the kingdom. And we should change our ways- although there are exceptions. A first generation church speaking only a foreign language. An area in the Midwest where there are only whites for the next hundred miles around. That kind of thing. But if we've got a monolithic church of only one gender or culture in a major American city, we should start to question that, as you say, and that should be a goal, to change that.

Loving everyonen IS necessary if we desire to live biblically, but actually pursuing diversity is to allow our values to be put out of whack. If ever we begin to pursue diversity, we lose sight of the people immediately beside us. We end up again with what happened in the story of the Good Samaritan, but for totally different reasons. Instead of the Levite and Priest passing by to protect their cleanliness, they pass by because they are called to diversity and the man on the road is the same nationality and religion as they, and if they stop to help they aren't pursuing the highest value of diversity!

We are called to love both our neighbors and our enemies– for our daily lives the application is to love the people around us. We are also called to love the impoverished, the imprisoned, the least, the last and the lost people. If we've placed ourselves in an environment where we never encounter such people, then certainly we are not living as we are called to live, but there aren't any holy ratios that need to be maintained!

Certainly, if the Church is all white, or all black, or all rich, or all poor, or all anything, we should be stopping to ask why. Christ certainly died for all! If there is a marked absence of some group or other in the Church, then we as the Church must be failing to preach the gospel effectively in some manner.

In short, diversity is a natural effect caused by the participation in Christian love to which we are called. It is not the goal which we pursue. If there is no diversity, that is a symptom of a failure to love appropriately. If there is diversity, there is still no certainty that we are being the Church which Jesus intended.

Unforunately, there are some Black men who identify with male privilege rather than identify with their oppression as Black people. Thomas is not the only one of these by a long shot.

I don't enjoy your mockery either.

No, you are unceasingly attacking me in this forum, claiming that it is unjust for me to say that Justice Thomas was unjust.

I actually haven't shared much about my beliefs in Affirmative Action. I may be wrong or right on them, but you wouldn't yet know what they are.

Grace, if you want to come here and discuss these issues without attacks and accusations, I would be happy to. We might even find much we agree on, and you might find more that you agree on with the others here that you get into disagreements with.

“Love does not mean not objecting when someone does evil, regardless of their race or culture. Love means objecting, and also making sure they are not stymied because of their race or culture.”

Then you added to another opinion by suggesting this .

Of course, similar reasoning would also look at no longer sitting white men at all for the next 50 years or so…

So according to you , as you did with Thomas,pointing out injustice and evil from your biased opinion is based on Love .
But from my biased opinion it is judgement .
If it was the Love of Christ, why would not those who see Sotomayor as promoting racism and injustice fail to understand this ? Are they without Love ? Is your Love more genuine , based on a closer relationship with our Lord.
I can not point out your injustice and call you a friend in Christ but you can speak to say a Thomas of being unjust and it becomes Love ?

My point was different cultures , different understanding , we are products of the 14 century reformation in many regards . Seeing racism as when anyone treats a person different in regards to employment , education scholarships is a
point of injustice to some .

A
Judge believes killing the unborn it Evil . Itsa life created by God. , Justice ? I hope not . And if a belief of race is to allow people to hire or educate based on it , then justice requires for people to point out that racism , using your measure this is what we should do . I differ, because I don't believe it is Christ centered to call those who are evil or racist who support affimitive action . I thought it was wrong to do so if if someone took an opinion different then mine also for them to assume the same about me .

The evil that would allow a person to benefit or to become of a victim of it is detrimental to both parties .
Race being a factor in who receives education and scholarships is another factor that promotes injustice .
It hurts both students .

You read my comments totally different then I intended , so actually your belief in my intention of judging you was off the mark . Whats happens if your wrong about Affirmitive action also ?

In the mean time many people see this as an issue that allows for disagreement , but each can share a view of why they believe as they do . For you to point it out as evil while supporting a Judge who supports beliefs that consist of a another world view that believes abortion is a fundamental right , using your measure of pointing out injustice and those who would treat a woman or people unjustly , anyone who supports this type of diversity is doing something unjust .
Woman suffermore from abortion , our culture does also , and God's gift of life is cancelled based on our own selfish desires.

Interesting you chose to say i was judging while you judged Thomas on un proven charges , true or not .
I thought I was sharing someting , perhaps teaching in a way that would help you open up to perhaps seeing this not as a right or wrong issue .

. It helped me reach another place with God , I have a Joy knowing if I got what was coming to me that i would suffer greatly . Thomas , Sotomayor, or the others here who agree with me or disagree. We are murderers if have harsh thoughts about some one , we commit adultry of we look at a lovely person in lust , you commit adultry . Thats what the Pharisees got ticked off about , Jesus took their standard of telling people what the bible meant , and raised the bar . We all fail . We throught the scriptures and encountering the Spirit all try to do what is Just .

Your justice just ticked me off a little , I guess I did the same with you .

One person can't be diverse. By definition.

Pointing out how someone attacks the disenfranchised, or minorities, or women, is not not loving them. Indeed, that is love itself.

Grace, Christ calls us to point out injustice. We should never back down just because the person doesn't agree with us on some points.

Affirmative Action is really beside the point when you are harassing your employees.

Affirmative Action isn't about correcting past wrongs- as the article above so well shows.

Yes Grace, you are correct, Democrats use race to advance themselves. That's why I don't align myself with the Democrats, but with the Kingdom. If we cease to be prophetic, we as Christians no longer have a mission. We need to be prophetic as much in the next eight years as we should have been in the past eight years.

Grace, I read your comments here, and many other places, and usually I don't respond because…well…they seem to lack grace. It is difficult to come here and read someone who is judging and assaulting me with words. I don't get civility, courtesy, or respect from you, nor do I feel like you extend the benefit of the doubt.

I never said or suggested that your beliefs about marriage makes you anti-gay. That's a strawman. Nor did I say that about affirmative action.

But so you may understand- no, one should never stop pointing out injustice because you think it would be contrary to love. It is part of love. And if the world view of someone is to kill everyone, then, yes, I will object to it. (Reductio ad absurdum) And in Justice Thomas' case, when his world view is to oppress, I will object to that too. And when his actions result in hurt for women, I will object to that, and say he was wrong, and that that was a sin.

I at no point questioned your motives, though I would have every right to, I suppose, if I knew them. Your response to me did nothing but question my motives. Actually, there wasn't much question there. Just judgment.

Hmmm , does not sound like your loving someone who has different ideas then you or is diverse at all my friend . But your right republicans used Gonzalles objections and played the Latino card when democrats brought up objections with him . I was just talking from a Christian lens that I thought Jesus wanted us to have . Your comments about Thomas oppresinng others made me think you did not get it , and really only love those who think like you . Do you see what i mean ? Thats a different view , I don't believe in any kind of jobs being given to anyone based on race . Not when the Klan did it , or when well intentioned people thought it would help correct injustices . But if i am wrong , its not my heart that is wrong , nor is it right to consider Judge thomas heart is wrong . His behavior you may disagree with , because if you believe affirmitive action is a good thing I would agree , Judge thomas is not someone you want in the Court . But I don't see democrats really any different in using race at times for advancement . Jesus was not about political advancement , you were speaking to Kindom Advancement and that is what i was speaking to .

Perhaps you can look at your comments and see why I might say to myself , ugggg , because your talking about loving people who are different , and because Thomas has different world views in what works and does not work , your comments promote a negative view of him personally . You did not see that ? Does because I believe Marriage being changed hurts all of us make me ant i gay ? Or that affirmitive action actually is morrally wrong and in the long run hurtfull and causes a delay in real discrimination solving , do these things make my heart anti God , no , perhaps my behavior is wrong , and thus debating with your ideas I welcome , debating about my motives is a no no .

Mick

Of course, similar reasoning would also look at no longer sitting white men at all for the next 50 years or so…

I would hazard a guess that it's because we're using an English word and a concept from our own culture, and one must turn to a dynamic equivalent translation to see “God is Diversity” in the Bible. One could argue that this is the foundation of the Trinity, but of course, the word “Trinity” is famously never found in the Bible as well. So we are left with the concept of God as Diversity, but not the actual words, even in dynamic equivalent translation. Perhaps something could be found in that very Genesis passage I cited, where the dynamic equivalent meaning of the nature of God is found in our representation of him/her only in our multi-gender relationship with each other.

But I fail to see the relevance?