Comments on: Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/ A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:42:11 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: jeffschuh http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-112659 jeffschuh Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:04:14 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-112659 From the Liberal L. A. Times<br>1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.<br>2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.<br>3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens. <br>4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.<br>5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.<br>6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.<br>7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.<br>8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.<br>9. 21 radio stations in L. A.. are Spanish speaking.<br>10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.<br>(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )<br><br>(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times) From the Liberal L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A.. are Spanish speaking.
10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

]]> By: jeffschuh http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-111117 jeffschuh Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:15:04 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-111117 KNA920, not sure what that stands for? I disclosed my full name...<br>My favorite 2 lines. "they pay taxes" and "Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup."<br><br>No offense, you really need to do your homework. Head out to California or any border town, and say those things. And please don't quote the NY times or the ITIN numbers. I mean these are completely liberal biased organizations. Your idea that there is "no line to stand in" is ridiculous. Yes they may be denied numerous times and may never get in our great country, but does that give them the right to cross over illegally? Why don't we just tear down our border and forget all sovereignty whatsoever? See this idea you have about the fact that these groups don't call for amnesty is wrong. All these progressive Christian churches know that is the only way. Numerous groups such as CCDA, Red Letter Christians, and Jim Wallis' pals call for it over and over again. Not eligible for welfare? Seriously? How many have fake docs that have applied for it and recieved it? All I'm asking for is that they go back to their country of origin and go thru the normal process, so the folks that have done that, have their fair chance as well to come here. Then they can come back, especially if they have kids here or families after that wait. Do you honestly believe illegal aliens that work for cash on numerous jobs through out the Southwest pay taxes? Come on! please use common sense. Do know how many hospitals are overwhelmed by the free care they are giving? KNA920, not sure what that stands for? I disclosed my full name…
My favorite 2 lines. “they pay taxes” and “Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup.”

No offense, you really need to do your homework. Head out to California or any border town, and say those things. And please don't quote the NY times or the ITIN numbers. I mean these are completely liberal biased organizations. Your idea that there is “no line to stand in” is ridiculous. Yes they may be denied numerous times and may never get in our great country, but does that give them the right to cross over illegally? Why don't we just tear down our border and forget all sovereignty whatsoever? See this idea you have about the fact that these groups don't call for amnesty is wrong. All these progressive Christian churches know that is the only way. Numerous groups such as CCDA, Red Letter Christians, and Jim Wallis' pals call for it over and over again. Not eligible for welfare? Seriously? How many have fake docs that have applied for it and recieved it? All I'm asking for is that they go back to their country of origin and go thru the normal process, so the folks that have done that, have their fair chance as well to come here. Then they can come back, especially if they have kids here or families after that wait. Do you honestly believe illegal aliens that work for cash on numerous jobs through out the Southwest pay taxes? Come on! please use common sense. Do know how many hospitals are overwhelmed by the free care they are giving?

]]> By: kna920 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-110364 kna920 Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:27:59 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-110364 Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant. <br><br>See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):<br><br><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...</a><br><br>I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor. <br><br>If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare. <br><br>I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one. <br><br>I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by. Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, “Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with.” They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they “break numerous laws”…I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of “getting in line” is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

]]> By: kna920 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-104620 kna920 Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:27:59 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-104620 Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant. <br><br>See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):<br><br><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...</a><br><br>I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor. <br><br>If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare. <br><br>I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one. <br><br>I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by. Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, “Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with.” They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they “break numerous laws”…I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of “getting in line” is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

]]> By: jeffschuh http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-104419 jeffschuh Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:15:46 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-104419 This Conversation is not about Hector and Gabby. They are here legally. We are not talking about "undocumented workers" either. Thats politically correct code for "Illegal Aliens." See Lynn, your problem is the millions of people waiting in line legally to come to this great country, and they are forced to wait in line up to 7 years to come here and their wait is longer the more Mexicans run across the border to live here. The bible states numerous times obey the law of your land. What these illegals are doing is also a strain on the economic system. They show up at the hospital for free health care, have babies here, live of welfare, and they don't pay taxes. I have friends waiting to get this in country the honorable way and will contribute and pay their fair share. How long should they wait Mrs. Hybels? How long seriously? Is it wrong for me to say to an Illegal that they should go back home and wait in line like everyone else? You take the 25th chapter of Matthew completely out of context. What version of Bible are you reading? The progressive Christianity you are teaching is not bible based. This Conversation is not about Hector and Gabby. They are here legally. We are not talking about “undocumented workers” either. Thats politically correct code for “Illegal Aliens.” See Lynn, your problem is the millions of people waiting in line legally to come to this great country, and they are forced to wait in line up to 7 years to come here and their wait is longer the more Mexicans run across the border to live here. The bible states numerous times obey the law of your land. What these illegals are doing is also a strain on the economic system. They show up at the hospital for free health care, have babies here, live of welfare, and they don't pay taxes. I have friends waiting to get this in country the honorable way and will contribute and pay their fair share. How long should they wait Mrs. Hybels? How long seriously? Is it wrong for me to say to an Illegal that they should go back home and wait in line like everyone else? You take the 25th chapter of Matthew completely out of context. What version of Bible are you reading? The progressive Christianity you are teaching is not bible based.

]]> By: Cheryl_H http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-103618 Cheryl_H Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:22:04 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-103618 First - to stevenskattebo - not cool to take scripture out of context. The United States is by far the biggest GIVER to the poor around the world than any other nation on earth - bar none. We discriminate against the poor? - what an asinine statement. <br><br>Why is the current immigration system refered to as 'broken'? If the main argument to its being 'broken' is due to family separation, who's really responsible for the separation? Doubtless there should be reforms to any imperfect system, but the current laws are aimed at limiting the annual number of legal immigrants into the United States - from many countries, not just Mexico. We also bring in thousands of persecuted immigrants - regardless of wealth. <br><br>Logic dictates that our current social support & health care emergency room systems cannot handle every person in the world who wants to come to the U.S. If the current law (LAW) separates familes, then the illegal person should be the one responsible for having kids in an illegal situation in the first place - not our country. <br><br>Should we welcome strangers and immigrants? Of course. But should we encourage illegal immigration - self-justified with an opinion that the law is 'broken'... I don't think so. Those 'true'legal immigrants who may have worked for 10 or more years in this country before becoming citizens swear an OATH - to become 'law-abiding' citizens who defend our Constitution. Illegal immigration mocks that process. <br><br>I'm a devoted Christ-follower who has served in the military, as has much of my family, defending our Constitution and the rights and laws as governed by the people - for which so many before have died. Immigration reform - driven by our legal processes - would be welcome, and its great that so many are voicing their opinions on the subject. But reform is not a quick, cut-and-dry process - being complicated with many issues ... terrorism in our post 9-11 world for one. <br><br>Acceptance, and therefore encouragement of law-breaking is not acceptable - even if the law is deemed to be 'broken' by some. Otherwise, our borders would not be guarded by thousands serving to enforce our laws. But if the illegal person manages to get by our Border Patrol officers, they can always find a warm reception at many churches it seems, including Willow Creek. First – to stevenskattebo – not cool to take scripture out of context. The United States is by far the biggest GIVER to the poor around the world than any other nation on earth – bar none. We discriminate against the poor? – what an asinine statement.

Why is the current immigration system refered to as 'broken'? If the main argument to its being 'broken' is due to family separation, who's really responsible for the separation? Doubtless there should be reforms to any imperfect system, but the current laws are aimed at limiting the annual number of legal immigrants into the United States – from many countries, not just Mexico. We also bring in thousands of persecuted immigrants – regardless of wealth.

Logic dictates that our current social support & health care emergency room systems cannot handle every person in the world who wants to come to the U.S. If the current law (LAW) separates familes, then the illegal person should be the one responsible for having kids in an illegal situation in the first place – not our country.

Should we welcome strangers and immigrants? Of course. But should we encourage illegal immigration – self-justified with an opinion that the law is 'broken'… I don't think so. Those 'true'legal immigrants who may have worked for 10 or more years in this country before becoming citizens swear an OATH – to become 'law-abiding' citizens who defend our Constitution. Illegal immigration mocks that process.

I'm a devoted Christ-follower who has served in the military, as has much of my family, defending our Constitution and the rights and laws as governed by the people – for which so many before have died. Immigration reform – driven by our legal processes – would be welcome, and its great that so many are voicing their opinions on the subject. But reform is not a quick, cut-and-dry process – being complicated with many issues … terrorism in our post 9-11 world for one.

Acceptance, and therefore encouragement of law-breaking is not acceptable – even if the law is deemed to be 'broken' by some. Otherwise, our borders would not be guarded by thousands serving to enforce our laws. But if the illegal person manages to get by our Border Patrol officers, they can always find a warm reception at many churches it seems, including Willow Creek.

]]> By: National Association of Evangelicals Provides Moral Model on Immigration Reform | Misa de los Inmigrantes http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-96441 National Association of Evangelicals Provides Moral Model on Immigration Reform | Misa de los Inmigrantes Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:08:45 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-96441 [...] know the wind has shifted in Congress when moderate and conservative evangelical leaders testify before the U.S. Senate in support of an earned pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Such a hearing would [...] [...] know the wind has shifted in Congress when moderate and conservative evangelical leaders testify before the U.S. Senate in support of an earned pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Such a hearing would [...]

]]> By: Jim Wallis: National Association of Evangelicals Provides Moral Model on Immigration Reform | Obama Biden White House http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-95864 Jim Wallis: National Association of Evangelicals Provides Moral Model on Immigration Reform | Obama Biden White House Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:53:51 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-95864 [...] know the wind has shifted in Congress when moderate and conservative evangelical leaders testify before the U.S. Senate in support of an earned pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Such a hearing would [...] [...] know the wind has shifted in Congress when moderate and conservative evangelical leaders testify before the U.S. Senate in support of an earned pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Such a hearing would [...]

]]> By: National Association of Evangelicals Provides Moral Model on Immigration Reform - Jim Wallis - God’s Politics Blog http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-95847 National Association of Evangelicals Provides Moral Model on Immigration Reform - Jim Wallis - God’s Politics Blog Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:01:15 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-95847 [...] know the wind has shifted in Congress when moderate and conservative evangelical leaders testify before the U.S. Senate in support of an earned pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Such a hearing would [...] [...] know the wind has shifted in Congress when moderate and conservative evangelical leaders testify before the U.S. Senate in support of an earned pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. Such a hearing would [...]

]]> By: genie http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-95031 genie Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:47:35 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-95031 What a beautiful testimony and reminder to us of our own heritage. Most of us take great pride in the determination and courage of our forebearers who made it to this country to escape oppression, poverty and religious persecution. Some of them hid out on ships. We respect and honor them for their courage and perseverence. Yet, the hatred and mistrust spewed on our airwaves against undocumented aliens must break God's heart. Our church has also experiences unusual delays and barriers to extention of visas and to even getting legal documents, even though we went through the proper channels. Sometimes we have had to ask for help from our Congressmen and women to aid the process. Many don't know where to turn to for help. May God forgive us for the blinders we have as we neglect the welfare of these who so desperately want to be a part of our great nation. Thank you, Lynne, for the wise words. What a beautiful testimony and reminder to us of our own heritage. Most of us take great pride in the determination and courage of our forebearers who made it to this country to escape oppression, poverty and religious persecution. Some of them hid out on ships. We respect and honor them for their courage and perseverence. Yet, the hatred and mistrust spewed on our airwaves against undocumented aliens must break God's heart. Our church has also experiences unusual delays and barriers to extention of visas and to even getting legal documents, even though we went through the proper channels. Sometimes we have had to ask for help from our Congressmen and women to aid the process. Many don't know where to turn to for help. May God forgive us for the blinders we have as we neglect the welfare of these who so desperately want to be a part of our great nation. Thank you, Lynne, for the wise words.

]]> By: NMRod http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94974 NMRod Fri, 09 Oct 2009 23:11:34 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94974 My question is this:<br><br>Do you love immigrants?<br><br>If so, how are you showing your love for them? My question is this:

Do you love immigrants?

If so, how are you showing your love for them?

]]> By: stevenskattebo http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94950 stevenskattebo Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:12:39 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94950 Faydine wrote: "I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian."<br><br>It is unchristian because Jesus said "Blessed are the poor," but the poor are not elegible for immigration documents (visas). This is a basic fact that is ignored in the mainstream press: our immigration laws discriminate against the poor. Faydine wrote: “I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian.”

It is unchristian because Jesus said “Blessed are the poor,” but the poor are not elegible for immigration documents (visas). This is a basic fact that is ignored in the mainstream press: our immigration laws discriminate against the poor.

]]> By: GlenPeterson http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94902 GlenPeterson Fri, 09 Oct 2009 13:13:17 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94902 idrandel,<br><br>The choices when migrating--among people that I know--feels something like stay in my country of origin and my kids will starve, we'll die a slow death or travel across an international border across the desert and face a good chance of death. Perceived or reality, it is the choice some people think they have. But, you are right, it is still a choice. Where people have no choice often is whether or not to cross legally or to get or remain documented once they are here. While the economy (more so before) has welcomed the workers, there is no path for work permits, temporary or permanent, or citizenship. That is what I meant by not having a choice. This conversation is working up a head of steam on my Facebook wall if you want to find me there. idrandel,

The choices when migrating–among people that I know–feels something like stay in my country of origin and my kids will starve, we'll die a slow death or travel across an international border across the desert and face a good chance of death. Perceived or reality, it is the choice some people think they have. But, you are right, it is still a choice. Where people have no choice often is whether or not to cross legally or to get or remain documented once they are here. While the economy (more so before) has welcomed the workers, there is no path for work permits, temporary or permanent, or citizenship. That is what I meant by not having a choice. This conversation is working up a head of steam on my Facebook wall if you want to find me there.

]]> By: Mennoman http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94897 Mennoman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:52:23 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94897 Thank you, Ms. Hybles, for this post. Thank you, Ms. Hybles, for this post.

]]> By: Mennoman http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94896 Mennoman Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:48:23 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94896 Would you deny the power and force of economic forces beyond these peoples' control-- that is what she is referring to. Would you deny the power and force of economic forces beyond these peoples' control– that is what she is referring to.

]]> By: ldbrandel http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94894 ldbrandel Fri, 09 Oct 2009 03:32:33 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94894 I missed your point: "on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice." Are you stating that these undocumented people came to the US by force? Say at gunpoint or ? While it may be true that they came here because of economic reasons there still was the voluntary choice to cross the border. <br><br>Furthermore, who is to say that God's hand wasn't in Hector and Gabby's visa denial? God may have a different place for them to preach the Word. After all, Paul didn't make it to every place he wanted to preach the word. I missed your point: “on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents–not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice.” Are you stating that these undocumented people came to the US by force? Say at gunpoint or ? While it may be true that they came here because of economic reasons there still was the voluntary choice to cross the border.

Furthermore, who is to say that God's hand wasn't in Hector and Gabby's visa denial? God may have a different place for them to preach the Word. After all, Paul didn't make it to every place he wanted to preach the word.

]]> By: GlenPeterson http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94878 GlenPeterson Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:45:32 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94878 Thank you to Lynn Hybels and the other followers of Jesus who testified before the Senate Committee today on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice. When any of us speak up for the stranger we do so as to Jesus. I pray for a day when a broken immigration system does not create or even allow for a class of people seen as less than human or with fewer rights that all of us. May God bless the coming push for comprehensive immigration reform and all those who speak for it. Thank you to Lynn Hybels and the other followers of Jesus who testified before the Senate Committee today on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents–not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice. When any of us speak up for the stranger we do so as to Jesus. I pray for a day when a broken immigration system does not create or even allow for a class of people seen as less than human or with fewer rights that all of us. May God bless the coming push for comprehensive immigration reform and all those who speak for it.

]]> By: All In One Information » Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants - Lynne … http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94842 All In One Information » Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants - Lynne … Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:52:28 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94842 [...] is the original post:  Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants - Lynne … This entry is filed under History. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 [...] [...] is the original post:  Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants – Lynne … This entry is filed under History. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 [...]

]]> By: Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants - Lynne … http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94835 Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants - Lynne … Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:34:28 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94835 [...] View original here: Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants - Lynne … [...] [...] View original here: Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants – Lynne … [...]

]]> By: Faydine http://blog.sojo.net/2009/10/08/scripture-and-history-remind-us-that-we-are-all-immigrants/comment-page-1/#comment-94852 Faydine Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:25:28 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=12275#comment-94852 Sorry, but I disagree with this posting. I don't think that loving people and treating them via a legal system are opposed. I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian. It is exactly how I would expect to be treated in any other country on earth, and even heaven requires membership for entry.<br><br>Nothing in this article compels me to think differently. Sorry, but I disagree with this posting. I don't think that loving people and treating them via a legal system are opposed. I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian. It is exactly how I would expect to be treated in any other country on earth, and even heaven requires membership for entry.

Nothing in this article compels me to think differently.

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