And my teenaged daughter actually considered whether or not they had a rugby team in her college selection process as she is a player. We have never lived anywhere but Oregon.

I think it will do great at the box office.

And my teenaged daughter actually considered whether or not they had a rugby team in her college selection process as she is a player. We have never lived anywhere but Oregon.

I think it will do great at the box office.

A nation teeters on the brink of civil war in this real-life political thriller about the negotiations that led to the end of apartheid in South Africa and the release of Nelson Mandela. Michael Young, a British businessman working in South Africa, has the audacious hope of bringing both sides of the apartheid conflict together — the entrenched government and the rebel African National Congress (ANC). But when his dream of secret talks is realized on an estate in England, it quickly becomes clear that common ground will be elusive as explosive tensions boil just below the surface. Against a backdrop of danger, terrorism and escalating unrest, a high-stakes chess match plays out, ultimately proving that peace is possible.

It's already aired, but Americans can watch it on the PBS website until Nov 8.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/endgame/ind...

Not true, very interestingly, say the authors. Children, particularly of young age, automatically place people into categories and tend to assume, being the narcissists that young children are (my words, not the authors'), that anyone who isn't just like them is “less than”. Unless parents talk very expressly about the sin and scourge of racism to their children, they cannot assume that their children will not adopt some attitudes that may horrify their parents.

The point of the chapter in the book is that children do not necessarily have to be “taught” to hate (al la South Pacific), but they must expressly be taught NOT to hate.

Back then, however, it was done deliberately.

And wouldn't this be cured by just waiting for these people to die?

Oh, no, because in many cases those attitudes are passed on to children. That's why you see a lot of “diversity training” in public schools.

Do they tune into radio stations or other media that are known to be racist? And would this be cured by not smoking the mole out?

Well, Obama's election has basically done that, and while not all (or probably even most) of his critics are racists certainly many are.

So if racism ceased to be a mainstream topic, would institutional racism do the same? It's a bit absurd to be self-conscious about something no one cares about.

We're not quite there yet.

Alright, so you're smoking the mole out and then shooting it. It strikes me as slightly odd that blacks are so offended that the mole pops up when they smoked it out.

And wouldn't this be cured by just waiting for these people to die?

Depends on which side has the louder megaphone.Blacks hear more from racists than non, then? Do they tune into radio stations or other media that are known to be racist? And would this be cured by not smoking the mole out?

That's sort of what Bill Buckley was trying to do, but if he were here today he would tell you that he pretty much failed.

Alright, thanks for the research lead.

You can personally like someone but not welcome him/her in your neighborhood because of what everyone else may think.

So if racism ceased to be a mainstream topic, would institutional racism do the same? It's a bit absurd to be self-conscious about something no one cares about.

Because, in order for sin to be addressed, it first has to be exposed.

I think I'm not grasping how having a divided white community builds a lack of trust in the black community.

Depends on which side has the louder megaphone.

But that puts true conservatives in a position of having to scale a wall (i.e. discipline the jerks) before getting any serious black audience.

That's sort of what Bill Buckley was trying to do, but if he were here today he would tell you that he pretty much failed. He had actually opposed the civil-rights movement, not because he himself was racist but because he believed that it focused too much on the Federal government's role in striking down discriminatory laws. (He later saw that the feds needed to be involved.)

How is that not a relational issue?

You can personally like someone but not welcome him/her in your neighborhood because of what everyone else may think. “White flight” happened because many whites feared that their property values would drop if too blacks many moved in to their neighborhood — and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Why are those things desirable?

These are the people who are today often called “socialists.”

I think I halfway see your point, but I'm having trouble putting my thoughts together. I think I'm not grasping how having a divided white community builds a lack of trust in the black community.

I do understand that welfare issues and race are perceived as tied together… But that puts true conservatives in a position of having to scale a wall before getting any serious black audience.

Well, when I was growing up there were certain neighborhoods where minorities couldn't buy a house. That should give a hint.

How is that not a relational issue? (BTW, I did notice your other example – I just can't seem to apply that to modern issues.)

That does a number of things. First, that it's identified as a phobia. Second, that the irrational attitude and accompanying rhetoric will be accompanied with related actions, often (but not necessarily) violent.

We have white liberals who often lead the charge against bigots. If this is a collectivist emotion, haven't they redeemed all of us?

These are the people who are today often called “socialists.”

Please explain what “institutional” means. I thought it was just people in power with relational problems – who are probably elderly and therefore not cause for major initiatives IMO.

Well, when I was growing up there were certain neighborhoods where minorities couldn't buy a house. That should give a hint.

I want to watch this movie, although I doubt I'll like rugby any more than football or soccer…

So it's sort of like putting a phobic person in the very situation they fear. But when they react, do you just stigmatize them or what? How is that productive?

That can't really happen until the “minority” race develops a general sense of trust.

??? Trust for whom – whites? We have white liberals who often lead the charge against bigots. If this is a collectivist emotion, haven't they redeemed all of us?

Besides, most minorities feel that the problems are institutional, not relational;

Please explain what “institutional” means. I thought it was just people in power with relational problems – who are probably elderly and therefore not cause for major initiatives IMO.

It's not so much that it increases but that it becomes more open and obvious; a large number of white folks still have a very hard time with minorities, especially blacks, in positions of authority. One of the reasons I believe God raised up Barack Obama was to bring that to the surface, and civil-rights demonstrations back in the day proved to have the same effect.

I think true reconciliation can only come the old-fashioned way: personally, not by arbitration. Both sides feel wronged, and any decree can only cover the problem up.

That can't really happen until the “minority” race develops a general sense of trust. Besides, most minorities feel that the problems are institutional, not relational; there was plenty of interaction in the pre-civil-rights South but at the end of the day you still had to go back to your side of the fence. This is why, when the movement actually started, many resentful white Southerners said things like, “Our Negroes were happy until those Northern interlopers showed up!” — they simply were not aware of the depth of the problem.

I do think minority racists are more common, or at least more (explicitly) vocal. It'd be great to have equal stigma on all sides, but suggesting such usually just calls stigma upon one's head.

I'm not sure I agree — I grew up in a “racist” environment that I had already started to move away from in my teens — but smack dab into white racism (I won't get into the details here).

I wouldn't call you angry, but you do seem rather cynical. Then again, I don't think I can blame you…

There are reasons why few African-Americans are political/ideological conservatives, and they have nothing to do with affirmative action or welfare.