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	<title>Comments on: Conservative Progressives?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/</link>
	<description>A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends</description>
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		<title>By: BillSamuel</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-111045</link>
		<dc:creator>BillSamuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-111045</guid>
		<description>What about Christians being a prophetic voice to all those in politics, instead of worrying about which ideological label to carry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Christians being a prophetic voice to all those in politics, instead of worrying about which ideological label to carry?</p>
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		<title>By: BillSamuel</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107936</link>
		<dc:creator>BillSamuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107936</guid>
		<description>What about Christians being a prophetic voice to all those in politics, instead of worrying about which ideological label to carry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Christians being a prophetic voice to all those in politics, instead of worrying about which ideological label to carry?</p>
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		<title>By: irish_annie</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107937</link>
		<dc:creator>irish_annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107937</guid>
		<description>mclaren&#039;s jabs are indeed subtle, but they&#039;re there.  the message is &quot;progressive: good; every other thought: bad&quot;.  he describes &quot;them&quot; as &quot;deeply suspicious&quot;, &quot;nervous&quot;, having a &quot;strangle-hold&quot;, asking the &quot;same old questions&quot;, etc.  one would have to be blinded by sharing his common ideology not to see it...  selah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mclaren&#39;s jabs are indeed subtle, but they&#39;re there.  the message is &#8220;progressive: good; every other thought: bad&#8221;.  he describes &#8220;them&#8221; as &#8220;deeply suspicious&#8221;, &#8220;nervous&#8221;, having a &#8220;strangle-hold&#8221;, asking the &#8220;same old questions&#8221;, etc.  one would have to be blinded by sharing his common ideology not to see it&#8230;  selah.</p>
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		<title>By: irish_annie</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107938</link>
		<dc:creator>irish_annie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107938</guid>
		<description>yes.  brian, your books brought new insights... i loved them all.  but as a clairvoyant, assuming to know the hearts and minds of others... well, don&#039;t quit your day job my brother ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes.  brian, your books brought new insights&#8230; i loved them all.  but as a clairvoyant, assuming to know the hearts and minds of others&#8230; well, don&#39;t quit your day job my brother <img src='http://blog.sojo.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: beckycarr</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107939</link>
		<dc:creator>beckycarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107939</guid>
		<description>McLaren&#039;s 3 priorities address issues that affect far more people far more profoundly than abortion and gay marriage. These are more personal moral issues. McLaren&#039;s priorities address systemic societal issues and policies that have far-reaching implications for everyone on the planet. Where should we focus our finite energies? I vote for McLaren&#039;s 3 priorities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McLaren&#39;s 3 priorities address issues that affect far more people far more profoundly than abortion and gay marriage. These are more personal moral issues. McLaren&#39;s priorities address systemic societal issues and policies that have far-reaching implications for everyone on the planet. Where should we focus our finite energies? I vote for McLaren&#39;s 3 priorities.</p>
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		<title>By: Stein</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107940</link>
		<dc:creator>Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107940</guid>
		<description>Consider the raw weight (quantity) of Bible text devoted to the topics of climate change (i.e. creation care), war, and poverty as compared to the weight of text devoted to discussing abortion, gay marriage, and the size of government.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are a few texts discussing each of the latter topics, but orders-of-magnitude more texts discussing the first set.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider the raw weight (quantity) of Bible text devoted to the topics of climate change (i.e. creation care), war, and poverty as compared to the weight of text devoted to discussing abortion, gay marriage, and the size of government.</p>
<p>There are a few texts discussing each of the latter topics, but orders-of-magnitude more texts discussing the first set.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107941</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107941</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think we were discussing whether McLaren&#039;s writing is something new or more of the &quot;old and tired fights&quot; he criticizes.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That depends on his reason for criticizing them.  I don&#039;t read him much, but if he joins the PC crowd in railing against others for his brand of stereotypes then obviously that&#039;s hypocritical.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;i&gt;You seemed to say--&quot;it&#039;s not more of the same if no one complains about it&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No, I just see the controversy itself as the problem rather than the controversial statements.  So complaining about the type of statements that always causes unnecessary controversy is more of the same.  If no one complained the problem would be solved.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Moral Majority is a different animal.  They didn&#039;t rely on getting the other side angry AFAIK; they focused on getting votes from people who would give them regardless of controversy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think we were discussing whether McLaren&#39;s writing is something new or more of the &#8220;old and tired fights&#8221; he criticizes.</i></p>
<p>That depends on his reason for criticizing them.  I don&#39;t read him much, but if he joins the PC crowd in railing against others for his brand of stereotypes then obviously that&#39;s hypocritical.</p>
<p><i>You seemed to say&#8211;&#8221;it&#39;s not more of the same if no one complains about it&#8221;</i></p>
<p>No, I just see the controversy itself as the problem rather than the controversial statements.  So complaining about the type of statements that always causes unnecessary controversy is more of the same.  If no one complained the problem would be solved.</p>
<p>The Moral Majority is a different animal.  They didn&#39;t rely on getting the other side angry AFAIK; they focused on getting votes from people who would give them regardless of controversy.</p>
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		<title>By: letjusticerolldown</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107942</link>
		<dc:creator>letjusticerolldown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107942</guid>
		<description>I think we were discussing whether McLaren&#039;s writing is something new or more of the &quot;old and tired fights&quot; he criticizes.&lt;br&gt;Common Loon basically said--&quot;more of the same&quot;&lt;br&gt;You seemed to say--&quot;it&#039;s not more of the same if no one complains about it&quot;&lt;br&gt;I argued it does polarize because not only is the message positioned &quot;in opposition&quot; but if it does not oppose there is no message.&lt;br&gt;You seemed to come back and again say that if I didn&#039;t complain about it there is no problem.&lt;br&gt;So I came back to what I believe an analogy of another set of faith leaders who figured out a way to package a political message that amplified their voice (while polarizing)--and ask you consider if you wish to go down that path again.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s my take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we were discussing whether McLaren&#39;s writing is something new or more of the &#8220;old and tired fights&#8221; he criticizes.<br />Common Loon basically said&#8211;&#8221;more of the same&#8221;<br />You seemed to say&#8211;&#8221;it&#39;s not more of the same if no one complains about it&#8221;<br />I argued it does polarize because not only is the message positioned &#8220;in opposition&#8221; but if it does not oppose there is no message.<br />You seemed to come back and again say that if I didn&#39;t complain about it there is no problem.<br />So I came back to what I believe an analogy of another set of faith leaders who figured out a way to package a political message that amplified their voice (while polarizing)&#8211;and ask you consider if you wish to go down that path again.</p>
<p>That&#39;s my take.</p>
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		<title>By: pawheel</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-107943</link>
		<dc:creator>pawheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-107943</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think the problem is that the concensus on global warming exists more outside of the US. I keep reading that people in some of the poorer nations are the ones who are already paying the price so far. Does New York have to flood for people to believe it? The polar ice caps will reportedly be melted in the warmer months for the first time in recorded history. &lt;br&gt;I got to meet someone who was visiting from Germany last week. He has been part of a German/Afghanistan committee to provide assistance to Afghanistan for 20 years. His question was &quot;Why doen&#039;t the United States believe in global warming?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think the problem is that the concensus on global warming exists more outside of the US. I keep reading that people in some of the poorer nations are the ones who are already paying the price so far. Does New York have to flood for people to believe it? The polar ice caps will reportedly be melted in the warmer months for the first time in recorded history. <br />I got to meet someone who was visiting from Germany last week. He has been part of a German/Afghanistan committee to provide assistance to Afghanistan for 20 years. His question was &#8220;Why doen&#39;t the United States believe in global warming?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97691</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97691</guid>
		<description>OK, replace money with attention...  Same message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, replace money with attention&#8230;  Same message.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97690</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97690</guid>
		<description>You completely confused me.  You or I missed the other&#039;s point somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You completely confused me.  You or I missed the other&#39;s point somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: letjusticerolldown</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97689</link>
		<dc:creator>letjusticerolldown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97689</guid>
		<description>In 1980 Jerry Falwell discovered a &#039;moral majority.&#039; This moral majority existed before 1979. But he identified and labeled it and the media bought it as a great story--elevating him (and others) to something of a kingpin status. The Moral Majority is gone. Except all the people that were part -- are pretty much still around. They were here before 1980, during the 80&#039;s, and will be here tomorrow.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There was a great mistake in thinking that because media and politicians recognized this new-found block of faith-voters--that leaders could step forth and exercise political power. That the church had found a new way to manifest Gods ways.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And Evangelicals quickly became the conservative, Republican, Right voting block with spokespersons we obediently followed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh, never mind the truth. That the Evangelical vote was a divided vote in the 70&#039;s, 80&#039;s, 90&#039;s, 00&#039;s.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You want to jump on board and do this same thing again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1980 Jerry Falwell discovered a &#39;moral majority.&#39; This moral majority existed before 1979. But he identified and labeled it and the media bought it as a great story&#8211;elevating him (and others) to something of a kingpin status. The Moral Majority is gone. Except all the people that were part &#8212; are pretty much still around. They were here before 1980, during the 80&#39;s, and will be here tomorrow.</p>
<p>There was a great mistake in thinking that because media and politicians recognized this new-found block of faith-voters&#8211;that leaders could step forth and exercise political power. That the church had found a new way to manifest Gods ways.</p>
<p>And Evangelicals quickly became the conservative, Republican, Right voting block with spokespersons we obediently followed.</p>
<p>Oh, never mind the truth. That the Evangelical vote was a divided vote in the 70&#39;s, 80&#39;s, 90&#39;s, 00&#39;s.</p>
<p>You want to jump on board and do this same thing again?</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi &#39;Reynolds&#39; Brodock</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97682</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi &#39;Reynolds&#39; Brodock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97682</guid>
		<description>I know a little about the financial state of Sojourners.... if you think they are in it for the money, you are sorely mistaken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know a little about the financial state of Sojourners&#8230;. if you think they are in it for the money, you are sorely mistaken.</p>
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		<title>By: Conservative Progressives? &#124; The Just Life</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97675</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservative Progressives? &#124; The Just Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97675</guid>
		<description>[...] Conservative Progressives?  The Just Life &#124; Nov 16, 2009 &#124; 0 comments [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Conservative Progressives?  The Just Life | Nov 16, 2009 | 0 comments [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97667</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97667</guid>
		<description>So they make controversial statements in order to sell their opinions more easily, and because they make money from these controversial statements you feel the need to make them controversial?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So they make controversial statements in order to sell their opinions more easily, and because they make money from these controversial statements you feel the need to make them controversial?</p>
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		<title>By: letjusticerolldown</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97663</link>
		<dc:creator>letjusticerolldown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97663</guid>
		<description>I think it is polarizing because I believe McLaren, Wallis, and a contingent of others have found a new kind of wedge voice. To gain an amplified political-religious voice in the broader media and publishing world one must have a marketable message. It must have legs. They have found a voice of creative, middle-ground, &quot;Not X&quot;, and &quot;Not Y&quot;, and not religious right, and not secular left--but to make the voice distinctive they have to pit themselves against those other voices.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They criticize parties on all sides who do not seek the common good--but in the process pit themselves against all sides. Frankly, I don&#039;t think progressives care one whit more about the three issues he identifies than my dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican parents (now deceased). But to say he was one and the same as my parents--would be to say progressivism is not--and his voice is not distinctive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is polarizing because I believe McLaren, Wallis, and a contingent of others have found a new kind of wedge voice. To gain an amplified political-religious voice in the broader media and publishing world one must have a marketable message. It must have legs. They have found a voice of creative, middle-ground, &#8220;Not X&#8221;, and &#8220;Not Y&#8221;, and not religious right, and not secular left&#8211;but to make the voice distinctive they have to pit themselves against those other voices.</p>
<p>They criticize parties on all sides who do not seek the common good&#8211;but in the process pit themselves against all sides. Frankly, I don&#39;t think progressives care one whit more about the three issues he identifies than my dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican parents (now deceased). But to say he was one and the same as my parents&#8211;would be to say progressivism is not&#8211;and his voice is not distinctive.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97651</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris &#34;Jesdisciple&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97651</guid>
		<description>If personal disrespect results from a stereotype, go after both with the same ferocity.  I don&#039;t think this particular stereotype does that; after all, he said &quot;I think...&quot;  I don&#039;t think stereotypes are evil just because they&#039;re stereotypes, although like anything they can be misused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If personal disrespect results from a stereotype, go after both with the same ferocity.  I don&#39;t think this particular stereotype does that; after all, he said &#8220;I think&#8230;&#8221;  I don&#39;t think stereotypes are evil just because they&#39;re stereotypes, although like anything they can be misused.</p>
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		<title>By: seminarian</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97641</link>
		<dc:creator>seminarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97641</guid>
		<description>Oh, yes it has. There is tons of science behind it, and there is a consensus. Giving credence to climate change deniers is like giving equal time to flat-earthers at a geophysics conference. You make it sound like a hoax that Al Gore made up. It&#039;s not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, yes it has. There is tons of science behind it, and there is a consensus. Giving credence to climate change deniers is like giving equal time to flat-earthers at a geophysics conference. You make it sound like a hoax that Al Gore made up. It&#39;s not.</p>
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		<title>By: MacArthur4</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97640</link>
		<dc:creator>MacArthur4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97640</guid>
		<description>until then, prove his stereotype wrong.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I find that quite strange . &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; All homosexuals try to molest children . How often has stereotypes like that been promoted , and the damage and hurt that came to homosexuals because of it . Because homosexuals were not around to prove the steretypes wrong from your perspective speading them is OK ?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am somewhat the opposite , personal insult is about me , I can take it ... stereotypes in this case are about people, Gods people,  that are denigrated that never even gotten the chance to make it personal. They are already presumed to have a negative perjoritive hung around their neck, Thus your attempting to limit the outreach of the church in some cases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>until then, prove his stereotype wrong.</p>
<p>I find that quite strange . </p>
<p> All homosexuals try to molest children . How often has stereotypes like that been promoted , and the damage and hurt that came to homosexuals because of it . Because homosexuals were not around to prove the steretypes wrong from your perspective speading them is OK ?  </p>
<p>I am somewhat the opposite , personal insult is about me , I can take it &#8230; stereotypes in this case are about people, Gods people,  that are denigrated that never even gotten the chance to make it personal. They are already presumed to have a negative perjoritive hung around their neck, Thus your attempting to limit the outreach of the church in some cases.</p>
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		<title>By: seminarian</title>
		<link>http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/16/conservative-progressives/comment-page-1/#comment-97639</link>
		<dc:creator>seminarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 01:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13420#comment-97639</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry. I really want to understand what you&#039;re saying, and I don&#039;t. Why is the essay inappropriate from a Christian perspective? He&#039;s talking about creation care, economic justice, and peace. I believe Jesus was or would have been solidly on McLaren&#039;s side of all three of those issues.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There are, in fact, Christian Conservatives who do, in fact, hold the views he discusses. He&#039;s not demonizing or attacking them, just stating disagreement and saying what he favors. I would understand a comment expressing disagreement, but I see no example whatsoever of the author demeaning anybody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m sorry. I really want to understand what you&#39;re saying, and I don&#39;t. Why is the essay inappropriate from a Christian perspective? He&#39;s talking about creation care, economic justice, and peace. I believe Jesus was or would have been solidly on McLaren&#39;s side of all three of those issues.</p>
<p>There are, in fact, Christian Conservatives who do, in fact, hold the views he discusses. He&#39;s not demonizing or attacking them, just stating disagreement and saying what he favors. I would understand a comment expressing disagreement, but I see no example whatsoever of the author demeaning anybody.</p>
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