Comments on: Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/ A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:40:48 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-111054 Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari Sun, 20 Dec 2009 14:43:31 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-111054 I see no reason to shame those we have mistreated by publishing photos of them naked or being beaten. Especially if our victims are from a shame culture. Punish the violators, to the full extent of the law, yes. Don't make those we have tormented victims twice over. I see no reason to shame those we have mistreated by publishing photos of them naked or being beaten. Especially if our victims are from a shame culture. Punish the violators, to the full extent of the law, yes. Don't make those we have tormented victims twice over.

]]> By: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-99967 Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:43:31 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-99967 I see no reason to shame those we have mistreated by publishing photos of them naked or being beaten. Especially if our victims are from a shame culture. Punish the violators, to the full extent of the law, yes. Don't make those we have tormented victims twice over. I see no reason to shame those we have mistreated by publishing photos of them naked or being beaten. Especially if our victims are from a shame culture. Punish the violators, to the full extent of the law, yes. Don't make those we have tormented victims twice over.

]]> By: seattle office cleaning http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-98288 seattle office cleaning Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:49:49 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-98288 I will bookmark and continue reading your blog in the future! Thanks alot for the informative post!<br><br>Thanks<br>jenny martin<br>______________________________________________ I will bookmark and continue reading your blog in the future! Thanks alot for the informative post!

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]]> By: FreeToBeYouAndMe http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-98049 FreeToBeYouAndMe Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:43:39 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-98049 The heinous acts we are engaging in are not pictured on the front pages of (corporate) American media--but they certainly are around the rest of the world. We are shielded from the inhumane treatment of POWs (yes, POWs) which is against the Geneva Conventions. When the pictures of U.S.-slaughtered villages and executions in Vietnam made it home, it was a catalyst to ending that war. Show the pictures. BE disgusted, GET physically ill viewing these horrendous acts by (corporate) Amercan contractors--let it eat into our souls that we actually have a hand in this and conclude that we have no other option but to stop these maddening acts of insanity! (Google "Ex-Interrogators Say Human Connection, Not Torture, Yields Results".) Can we actually imagine the unimaginable? No, we can't. We can't even, for that matter, imagine the pain and suffering of those afflicted by our aggressions overseas without pictures. No American has seen the wedding parties in Afghanistan strewn to pieces by unmanned drones--not even the lieutenant who ordered it to be done. Bring it home. Show the pictures. The world needs to see compassionate Americans respond to these atrocities!! WE'RE HERE!!! We must stop this and all unjust wars that (corporate) America is waging around the world. The heinous acts we are engaging in are not pictured on the front pages of (corporate) American media–but they certainly are around the rest of the world. We are shielded from the inhumane treatment of POWs (yes, POWs) which is against the Geneva Conventions. When the pictures of U.S.-slaughtered villages and executions in Vietnam made it home, it was a catalyst to ending that war. Show the pictures. BE disgusted, GET physically ill viewing these horrendous acts by (corporate) Amercan contractors–let it eat into our souls that we actually have a hand in this and conclude that we have no other option but to stop these maddening acts of insanity! (Google “Ex-Interrogators Say Human Connection, Not Torture, Yields Results”.) Can we actually imagine the unimaginable? No, we can't. We can't even, for that matter, imagine the pain and suffering of those afflicted by our aggressions overseas without pictures. No American has seen the wedding parties in Afghanistan strewn to pieces by unmanned drones–not even the lieutenant who ordered it to be done. Bring it home. Show the pictures. The world needs to see compassionate Americans respond to these atrocities!! WE'RE HERE!!! We must stop this and all unjust wars that (corporate) America is waging around the world.

]]> By: Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees | The Just Life http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97894 Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees | The Just Life Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:23:15 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97894 [...] Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees The Just Life | Nov 19, 2009 | 0 comments [...] [...] Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees The Just Life | Nov 19, 2009 | 0 comments [...]

]]> By: Chris "Jesdisciple" http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97870 Chris "Jesdisciple" Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:28:24 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97870 Have we seen this type of propaganda? Is such an empty accusation more effective than an actual photo? Do we know that the photos aren't as bad as their descriptions? Have we seen this type of propaganda? Is such an empty accusation more effective than an actual photo? Do we know that the photos aren't as bad as their descriptions?

]]> By: Chris "Jesdisciple" http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97867 Chris "Jesdisciple" Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:18:38 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97867 I don't know, I think al Qaeda would find a way to recruit youths by showing what bad things America stands for. Now if I were a collectivist, I would say go ahead and release them because America sinned and needs to confess - but our soldiers overseas didn't do anything wrong.<br><br>And I don't think this is a case of censorship. They're the government's photos, and the government hopefully knows best what to do because they saw the pictures and we didn't. Maybe the government isn't being transparent enough, but there's no censorship.<br><br>So the question is, when should government refuse to be transparent? Surely there are some good reasons. I don't know, I think al Qaeda would find a way to recruit youths by showing what bad things America stands for. Now if I were a collectivist, I would say go ahead and release them because America sinned and needs to confess – but our soldiers overseas didn't do anything wrong.

And I don't think this is a case of censorship. They're the government's photos, and the government hopefully knows best what to do because they saw the pictures and we didn't. Maybe the government isn't being transparent enough, but there's no censorship.

So the question is, when should government refuse to be transparent? Surely there are some good reasons.

]]> By: SisterMarie http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97859 SisterMarie Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:40:16 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97859 As long as we do not release these photos those terrorists who oppose us will maintain that the abuses were far worse and widespread than they actually were. The one thing that we cannot cede as a nation is the truth. If we learned nothing during the past 8 years, we should have learned that. As long as we do not release these photos those terrorists who oppose us will maintain that the abuses were far worse and widespread than they actually were. The one thing that we cannot cede as a nation is the truth. If we learned nothing during the past 8 years, we should have learned that.

]]> By: 1jsm5 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97843 1jsm5 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:48:03 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97843 A similar moral dilemma involved the government's suppression for forty years of the original color films made in Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortly after the bombings in the initial days of the occupation. Speculation at the time were that the pictures of the cities and the victims were so horrific that the US citizenry would never have approved further bomb development. See Greg Mitchell: Great Hiroshima Coverup, Huffington Post 08-09-09.<br><p><br>The first casualty of war is the truth.<br>These pictures (films) which did not benefit from "Wag the Dog" revisionist photoshopping are the truth, which for war advocates must be denied and, if not denied, suppressed.</p> A similar moral dilemma involved the government's suppression for forty years of the original color films made in Hiroshima and Nagasaki shortly after the bombings in the initial days of the occupation. Speculation at the time were that the pictures of the cities and the victims were so horrific that the US citizenry would never have approved further bomb development. See Greg Mitchell: Great Hiroshima Coverup, Huffington Post 08-09-09.

The first casualty of war is the truth.
These pictures (films) which did not benefit from “Wag the Dog” revisionist photoshopping are the truth, which for war advocates must be denied and, if not denied, suppressed.

]]> By: irish_annie http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97834 irish_annie Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:45:43 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97834 true... and what sort of perverse voyeurism makes anyone wish to view these photos anyway...? selah. true… and what sort of perverse voyeurism makes anyone wish to view these photos anyway…? selah.

]]> By: JenniferEh http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97795 JenniferEh Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:33:15 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97795 There are several issues here, interlinked. The first thing is the notion of censorship: in the service of what good is the blocking of such information justified? Surely public accountability for violations of Human Rights would be a good thing, here. <br>However, there is another subtle point to be heard amidst the censorship: What is the effect of making public particular kinds of information? In a day where media-fueled frenzies have altogether the effect of creating fear, confusion, and disinformation amongst the wider public, how can the press and the state be accountable for the circulation of such supposedly "free" information? <br>Let me address the second point. Assuming that anger and violence directed towards troops were to ensue BECAUSE OF the circulation of information and images is probably false. The reality of the situation is that these incidences of violence did happen; we have evidence that this is so. Photos are merely one aspect of this evidence demonstrating this primarily to those who are unacquainted with this reality. <br>The public in the occupied nations of Afghanistan and Iraq are likely all too familiar with the clandestine operations of their captors....so while the fear for US troops is understandable from our vantage point, on the ground, there is likely already a palpable skepticism amongst Iraqis and Afghanis which preemptively delegitimizes the purity of the war. I am not for the killing of any person due to the circulation of information--however, it seems to me that the problem in the first place is the very horrific, and unnacountable actions of the US military in places like Abu Ghraib. You can shoot the rooster crowing, but you can't hide the morning sun....<br><br>In my skepticism, I believe that the real issue is, how will this messiness delegitimize the "war on terror" and our sense of righteous moral positioning? There are several issues here, interlinked. The first thing is the notion of censorship: in the service of what good is the blocking of such information justified? Surely public accountability for violations of Human Rights would be a good thing, here.
However, there is another subtle point to be heard amidst the censorship: What is the effect of making public particular kinds of information? In a day where media-fueled frenzies have altogether the effect of creating fear, confusion, and disinformation amongst the wider public, how can the press and the state be accountable for the circulation of such supposedly “free” information?
Let me address the second point. Assuming that anger and violence directed towards troops were to ensue BECAUSE OF the circulation of information and images is probably false. The reality of the situation is that these incidences of violence did happen; we have evidence that this is so. Photos are merely one aspect of this evidence demonstrating this primarily to those who are unacquainted with this reality.
The public in the occupied nations of Afghanistan and Iraq are likely all too familiar with the clandestine operations of their captors….so while the fear for US troops is understandable from our vantage point, on the ground, there is likely already a palpable skepticism amongst Iraqis and Afghanis which preemptively delegitimizes the purity of the war. I am not for the killing of any person due to the circulation of information–however, it seems to me that the problem in the first place is the very horrific, and unnacountable actions of the US military in places like Abu Ghraib. You can shoot the rooster crowing, but you can't hide the morning sun….

In my skepticism, I believe that the real issue is, how will this messiness delegitimize the “war on terror” and our sense of righteous moral positioning?

]]> By: burningheretic http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97778 burningheretic Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:47:36 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97778 Not so certain there. There are 'citizens' now who would like to perform a coup d'etat. <br>I am reminded of this: 'What does it profit a (nation/people/group) to gain the whole world, but lose its soul?' Not so certain there. There are 'citizens' now who would like to perform a coup d'etat.
I am reminded of this: 'What does it profit a (nation/people/group) to gain the whole world, but lose its soul?'

]]> By: More on Torture « Seeking First the Kingdom http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97762 More on Torture « Seeking First the Kingdom Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:08:07 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97762 [...] November 18, 2009 by jimmymccarty I’ve got another post reflecting on torture, the U.S. and Christians at God’s Politics. Go check it out. [...] [...] November 18, 2009 by jimmymccarty I’ve got another post reflecting on torture, the U.S. and Christians at God’s Politics. Go check it out. [...]

]]> By: Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees - send gift to India http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97737 Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees - send gift to India Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:52:46 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97737 [...] here: Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees [...] [...] here: Pentagon Blocks Release of Detainee Abuse Photos — Obama Agrees [...]

]]> By: Chris "Jesdisciple" http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97735 Chris "Jesdisciple" Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:45:12 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97735 <i>What concerns me most in this situation is that our leaders expect more outrage from our enemies than from us over the inhumane treatment of defenseless persons.</i><br><br>No, they expect more <i>violence</i> from our enemies than from us - which is a good thing, right? If we decided to impeach Obama because of the news, at least no one would get killed. What concerns me most in this situation is that our leaders expect more outrage from our enemies than from us over the inhumane treatment of defenseless persons.

No, they expect more violence from our enemies than from us – which is a good thing, right? If we decided to impeach Obama because of the news, at least no one would get killed.

]]> By: Chris "Jesdisciple" http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97734 Chris "Jesdisciple" Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:43:03 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97734 Yeah, I think we subconsciously don't expect citizens of other countries to read here. After all, we don't read blogs about Russian politics. But I agree that it is confusing when you take away the American context. Yeah, I think we subconsciously don't expect citizens of other countries to read here. After all, we don't read blogs about Russian politics. But I agree that it is confusing when you take away the American context.

]]> By: alfrot http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97723 alfrot Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:23:19 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97723 "As Christians, we worship a God who was beaten and mocked when imprisoned and defenseless. It seems this same behavior has now been done to others in our name."<br><br>'our name' as Christians doesn't include Chinese, Russian or indeed Afghan Christians. Clearly ending torture by America or anyone else is worthwhile but I fear the conflation of America and Christendom: it tends to suggest the spiritual lines of right and wrong lie close to the political lines of ally and foe.<br><br>Although a second reading of the article reveals that you might have meant 'As *American* Christians...' - an elision we non-Americans should always watch out for. “As Christians, we worship a God who was beaten and mocked when imprisoned and defenseless. It seems this same behavior has now been done to others in our name.”

'our name' as Christians doesn't include Chinese, Russian or indeed Afghan Christians. Clearly ending torture by America or anyone else is worthwhile but I fear the conflation of America and Christendom: it tends to suggest the spiritual lines of right and wrong lie close to the political lines of ally and foe.

Although a second reading of the article reveals that you might have meant 'As *American* Christians…' – an elision we non-Americans should always watch out for.

]]> By: PDBurns http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/17/pentagon-blocks-release-of-detainee-abuse-photos-obama-agrees/comment-page-1/#comment-97704 PDBurns Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:33:48 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13464#comment-97704 Question: Was it a Bush Administration decision to release the Abu Ghraib photos, were the photos leaked, or something else. I do not recall. Question: Was it a Bush Administration decision to release the Abu Ghraib photos, were the photos leaked, or something else. I do not recall.

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