Comments on: Continuing the Deadly Viper Conversation: Illuminating Gender Blind Spots http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/ A Blog by Jim Wallis and Friends Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:03:36 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: melodyhanson http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-110752 melodyhanson Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:28:25 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-110752 Ken, Thank you for this. Those that say "move on" don't even begin to understand that what the AA leaders/DV authors are discussing and the changes promised at Zondervan, are the beginning of a journey toward healing and forgiveness, and a stronger multi-ethnic Church. Again, thank you for speaking up for the female experience in the church. Ken, Thank you for this. Those that say “move on” don't even begin to understand that what the AA leaders/DV authors are discussing and the changes promised at Zondervan, are the beginning of a journey toward healing and forgiveness, and a stronger multi-ethnic Church. Again, thank you for speaking up for the female experience in the church.

]]> By: melodyhanson http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98491 melodyhanson Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:28:25 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98491 Ken, Thank you for this. Those that say "move on" don't even begin to understand that what the AA leaders/DV authors are discussing and the changes promised at Zondervan, are the beginning of a journey toward healing and forgiveness, and a stronger multi-ethnic Church. Again, thank you for speaking up for the female experience in the church. Ken, Thank you for this. Those that say “move on” don't even begin to understand that what the AA leaders/DV authors are discussing and the changes promised at Zondervan, are the beginning of a journey toward healing and forgiveness, and a stronger multi-ethnic Church. Again, thank you for speaking up for the female experience in the church.

]]> By: momhelen http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98203 momhelen Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:10:26 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98203 Thanks, Ken, for being willing to stick your neck out in support of your sisters. And it's unfortunate that the timing of your post was such that it appeared you were unnecessarily adding fuel to the fire when in fact you were just originally commenting on and validating Kathy's blog entry. Hopefully that won't ultimately diminish the value of your message and the example you are setting for other Christian male leaders. Thanks, Ken, for being willing to stick your neck out in support of your sisters. And it's unfortunate that the timing of your post was such that it appeared you were unnecessarily adding fuel to the fire when in fact you were just originally commenting on and validating Kathy's blog entry. Hopefully that won't ultimately diminish the value of your message and the example you are setting for other Christian male leaders.

]]> By: John Mulholland http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98195 John Mulholland Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:47:15 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98195 I second the thoughts. Move on. I second the thoughts. Move on.

]]> By: katiebugk http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98175 katiebugk Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:06:46 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98175 Ken, thanks for your honesty and continued care about this matter. I think it is important that everyone realizes that to forgive, forget and move on would be a massive mistake. Major lessons need to be learned and continue to be discussed on this issue, and as your post suggests, there are many more facets to this whole mishap than it appeared at first blush. If these occurrences are still cropping up in 2009, forgetting is the last thing we should do. Ken, thanks for your honesty and continued care about this matter. I think it is important that everyone realizes that to forgive, forget and move on would be a massive mistake. Major lessons need to be learned and continue to be discussed on this issue, and as your post suggests, there are many more facets to this whole mishap than it appeared at first blush. If these occurrences are still cropping up in 2009, forgetting is the last thing we should do.

]]> By: kenfong http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98169 kenfong Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:49:04 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98169 In my defense, I wrote this as a supportive comment last week to Kathy's post and was asked by the Sojourner page editor if it would be okay to post this today in support of this issue. If you check, you will see that what prompted my comment was the response by someone who basically was saying that this was a non-issue because the Bible doesn't allow women to lead. I can understand your sentiments if you didn't know the original context. At any rate, the reconciliation process with the authors of DV is still in process--it is far from over. We are trying to reach out to them. IMHO there is still much to learn from each other and all of this. In my defense, I wrote this as a supportive comment last week to Kathy's post and was asked by the Sojourner page editor if it would be okay to post this today in support of this issue. If you check, you will see that what prompted my comment was the response by someone who basically was saying that this was a non-issue because the Bible doesn't allow women to lead. I can understand your sentiments if you didn't know the original context. At any rate, the reconciliation process with the authors of DV is still in process–it is far from over. We are trying to reach out to them. IMHO there is still much to learn from each other and all of this.

]]> By: NC77 http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98160 NC77 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:58:38 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98160 Amen. The best part of forgiving in Christ and seeing the heartfelt true repentence of the forgiven one is the ability to forget, move on, and grow in the Christ like experience. Amen. The best part of forgiving in Christ and seeing the heartfelt true repentence of the forgiven one is the ability to forget, move on, and grow in the Christ like experience.

]]> By: bigdubby http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/23/continuing-the-deadly-viper-conversation-illuminating-gender-blind-spots/comment-page-1/#comment-98136 bigdubby Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:00:41 +0000 http://blog.sojo.net/?p=13610#comment-98136 I appreciate the conversation that has been going on with this book and the problems with it. But I believe it is time to move on. The publisher and both authors gave heart felt apologies and are seemingly working their very hardest to bring closure to this issue. Asian culture in terms of how it was portrayed was the main issue, in general. Khang's concern is a valid point that was already made. I don't see the point of this article except to rehash, and throw in one's "two cents". <br><br>Kathy's point was to show us a blind spot to how women were portrayed (or not portrayed) in deadly vipers. Pastor Fong's article seems to say: my point is to highlight someone's else's point that will ultimately highlight my point about our blindspots. <br><br>I don't mean to be critical but isn't it time to move on? Zondervan has. The authors have. We should forgive, offer grace and input into the repackaged content but i truly think that we have now moved over the line in helpful dialogue about deadly vipers. Perhaps one of the most deadly vipers is instead of seeing how God is using this to grow a lot of people (and ideas) we constantly speak up and say "this also was wrong with it, this was also wrong with it, you should read this post because they highlight something else wrong, you read that post because it will highlight another area that i see is wrong". <br><br>Again, i appreciate the fact that the Asian community spoke up and were heard to their concerns. That is a wonderful thing. But now i believe it is time for all of us who had concerns and issues with Deadly Vipers to show our maturity, grace, love, and Christ-likeness by moving on. I appreciate the conversation that has been going on with this book and the problems with it. But I believe it is time to move on. The publisher and both authors gave heart felt apologies and are seemingly working their very hardest to bring closure to this issue. Asian culture in terms of how it was portrayed was the main issue, in general. Khang's concern is a valid point that was already made. I don't see the point of this article except to rehash, and throw in one's “two cents”.

Kathy's point was to show us a blind spot to how women were portrayed (or not portrayed) in deadly vipers. Pastor Fong's article seems to say: my point is to highlight someone's else's point that will ultimately highlight my point about our blindspots.

I don't mean to be critical but isn't it time to move on? Zondervan has. The authors have. We should forgive, offer grace and input into the repackaged content but i truly think that we have now moved over the line in helpful dialogue about deadly vipers. Perhaps one of the most deadly vipers is instead of seeing how God is using this to grow a lot of people (and ideas) we constantly speak up and say “this also was wrong with it, this was also wrong with it, you should read this post because they highlight something else wrong, you read that post because it will highlight another area that i see is wrong”.

Again, i appreciate the fact that the Asian community spoke up and were heard to their concerns. That is a wonderful thing. But now i believe it is time for all of us who had concerns and issues with Deadly Vipers to show our maturity, grace, love, and Christ-likeness by moving on.

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