It was, of course, the breaking of laws for the purpose of showing mercy that first aroused anger toward Jesus. What right has the USA to expect obedience from his followers to laws that, similarly, would prevent mercy?

Is Jesus Lord, or is Caesar?

Many of the deported parents of U.S. citizen children were legal permanent residents deported for convictions defined as aggravated felonies ( a very broad definition that includes some misdemeanors). Many of these parents have lived in the U.S. for the majority of their lives and now find themselves returned to countries where they don't speak the language and have no contacts or support systems. As "aggravated felons" they are automatically detained and deported (exiled for life) without the opportunity to have an immigration judge review the facts of their case and make a reasonable judgement. The current laws need to be reversed to allow for judicial discretion. A "one size fits all" punishment of banishment is unjust and does not adhere to the principles upon which this country was founded.

"You cannot use the Biblical example of aliens in Israel during Jesus time to support the law breakers. In Jesus day, folks who live in the countries of the Roman Empire didn't have to take documents with them when they crossed borders of countries." Joe Allen Doty

I think you are right. Since the Bible was written 2000 years ago for people living in a different time and context, it is largely obsolete. That is why we have science, philosophy, and myriad of other sources of knowledge to derive a human ethic that reflects the Spirit of Christ.

Few posts on this subject have been written with the eloquence displayed in Lindsaykevan's post above. I would be interested in your take on what Lindsaykevan states.

Well said.

I'll refer you to the same link that I have referred others to. It speaks directly on the issue of illegal immigration.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3638

"It's really easy to just tar people who disagree with you with a nativist (subtext: racist) brush; it means you don't have to deal honestly with the arguments they're making. Legal immigration is happening in droves; in the last couple of decades, it has actually been occurring at a rate higher than even the "golden age" of immigration in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The backlogs are happening because, no matter how many people we permit to come in, far more still want to come in. People around the world understand that the U.S. is a land of opportunity and freedom, and they want to participate in that. And that's great; but we can only absorb so many at a time. There are only so many jobs available, so much housing, so many English teachers, etc."

I'm not sure where you find a "nativist brush" in my post. As soon as you said that, you confirm exactly what I said about opposition to legal immigration. I do appreciate your honesty in not hiding behind the issues of "law breaking" and "illegal immigration."

Check out this information from a free-market organization: Cato Institute. This is the most sane informtion I've ever seen about the issue of immigration.


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3638

Melody, I am glad to see your blog. I am sure that Justin Fung will chime in here with some specifics, but until then, check out this site: http://faithandimmigration.org/ a product of Sojourners. There is so much we can and need to do this coming year. Blessings.

It's really easy to just tar people who disagree with you with a nativist (subtext: racist) brush; it means you don't have to deal honestly with the arguments they're making. Legal immigration is happening in droves; in the last couple of decades, it has actually been occurring at a rate higher than even the "golden age" of immigration in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The backlogs are happening because, no matter how many people we permit to come in, far more still want to come in. People around the world understand that the U.S. is a land of opportunity and freedom, and they want to participate in that. And that's great; but we can only absorb so many at a time. There are only so many jobs available, so much housing, so many English teachers, etc. And that's the reason for putting limits on immigration (not to mention keeping out people who want to do us harm; should Osama bin Laden be permitted to send his friends and family over, too?).

It's easy for upper-middle-class people with college degrees to say, "Sure, we'll find jobs and space for them all." But those with limited income and skills look at the wave of immigrants and legitimately see them as competition for the jobs, apartments, and other aspects of life that they're struggling for. That's all the more true as unemployment tops 10%. Probably the majority of Haitians would move to the U.S. if they had a chance; does anyone honestly think we could absorb 5 million destitute people and provide them with anything close to an American-style life all at once?

What about the people who know in advance that they are going to be illegals before they leave their home countries?

They know that it is against the law of the USA to cross the border where there are no places to go through legal channels.

I don't have a problem with legal immigrants; but, I do with those who know that they will be breaking the law as soon as the cross the border.

You cannot use the Biblical example of aliens in Israel during Jesus time to support the law breakers. In Jesus day, folks who live in the countries of the Roman Empire didn't have to take documents with them when they crossed borders of countries.

The man in the direct linage of my Cherokee genealogy left the Eastern Cherokee lands before the "Trail where we Cried" took place. He and other went to Arkansas first. I am in the same family tree as Will Rogers; he (actually his descendent's now) and I have the same Cherokee Chief as an ancestor.

Edward Doty was one of the Mayflower passengers; but, he was not a Pilgrim. He got man on the trip to pay his passage and he worked and an indentured servant to pay that off.

The Cherokees had a several day annual thanksgiving festival, commonly known in English as the "Green Corn Festival."

I would like to help. what can I do? I live in Madison, WI and have often thought I'd like to help refugees or those settling here, but I don't know where to start and what would be most helpful? My time volunteering, my money? Thanks.

From the article: the key point:

"Long backlogs in our nation’s family immigration system"

This is the problem, in a nutshell. Why are people coming here without proper documentation? Many of them cannot wait for these long, long backlogs. Also, as was discussed in the thread on human trafficking, some prospective immigrants are offered "great jobs" by recruiters. When they come to the US, they find out that they are working in sweatshop conditions for very low wages. And they cannot complain because then they would be deported -- low wages are better than no wages. Some girls and women end up getting taken into prostitution rings as well.

In reality, much of the anti-"illegal immigrant" movement is truly an anti-immigration movement. The people who hold to this viewpoint have no interest at all in removing these long, long backlogs. The backlogs are a perfect excuse to keep legal immigration from happening.

You highlight a subtext of the immigration debate beautifully lindsaykevan. All of us, before judging those who choose to immigrate illegally, must ask, "what would I be prepared to do to ensure my children were safe and healthy?". Until we have fled war-torn nations, knowing we may never see our extended family or ancestral homes again, our judgement (all too often couched in comfort, security and peace) should be covered by grace.

Immigration is such a sensitive issue. My heart aches at the conundrum we all face. I have the privilege of working at a refugee resettlement agency. Each day I hear the stories of refugees who have fled their home countries in search for a place of solice. I am constantly faced with a tough question, what would I do for my own family if I were in such terrible situation as these people are? How far would I go? To what extent would I break laws, cross borders, or steal, just so that my family could survive. Would the line of morality blur in the face of such desperation. The phrase, "desperate times call for desperate measures," takes on a whole new meaning to me when I hear their stories. I have no idea what REAL desperation looks like. And I have to ask myself, depite the "illegality" of undocumented workers, if life in America would provide my family stability, a chance for a better life, would I take it myself? It's a question I thank God that I never have to actually ask and actually answer. One thing I do know, is that God loves the family unit. We weren't made to be alone. And I believe he rejoices when families are together and I believe he is saddened when they are separated. I guess the question we all need to wrestle with is, "what is the greater law/principal/commandment?" Jesus asked this question of his followers and hearers often. Is is lawful to work on the Sabbath? Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath? "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?"(Mark 3:4) I really don't claim to have the answer. God's word also says we are to respect the rulers and government in authority. Hence our conundrum... The whole reason I wanted to post was actually to send a link to a news site.
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/A-First-Thanksgi....
A lovely church in my town hosts a Thanksgiving Dinner for newly arrived Refugees that we resettle each year. It's a nice reminder that like them, our ancestors came to America for a new life too at one time. And like them, these refugees are Thankful to be in America and to be alive. I hope the story is one that touches your hearts as it touches mine. Happy Thanksgiving Sojourners Community.

I am not without compassion for the children who suffer the consequences of their parents' poor decisions. And I do believe that as Christians we must work for more liberal immigration policies. HOWEVER, to legitimate the previous illegal activities of "undocumented residents" after the fact; or to expedite their citizenship process in any manner not available to any other applicant for immigration is not right.

Our choices have consequences. Requiring people to deal with the consequences of their previous bad decisions does not demonstrate a lack of grace or compassion.

Actually, last year during the presidential campaign, then-Senator Obama visited the Crow Reservation in Montana. But your point is still well-made.

This article evades a discussion of why parents of U.S. citizen kids are being deported. Anyone born in the U.S., even of parents here illegally, is a citizen under the 14th Amendment. If Mr. Wallis thinks no parent of a U.S. citizen child should be deported, he is really saying either 1) there should be no limitation of any sort on immigration (number, criminal status, health, willingness to swear allegiance to the country, anything else) or 2) managing to deliver a baby in the U.S. means you get a free pass from any of the limitations on immigration that exist.

The honest and law-abiding thing for families of "mixed status" to do is to return to the country from which the parents came (together--no need for the family to be separated). At age 18, the children who have U.S. citizen status can choose for themselves to come here, legally (and potentially bring family members later as they are ready to sponsor them), or they can stay with their parents, legally.

I am not a "lock the doors and build a steel fence around the U.S." person. A certain level of immigration, involving both family reunification and those who seek economic opportunity and political freedom (including refugees), is healthy. But at the same time, we cannot accept every person who would like to come here and still have a society that is anything like the one we cherish.

Thanks for allowing me to express my short opinion.

Simply put, this Thanksgiving and every Thanksgiving, we should and must remember the millions of natives of this land decimated by the European settlers. The Trail of Tears that is still taking place on today's reservations. Our Thanksgiving is their genocide and not since Robert Kennedy has any Presidential candidate or Executive even bothered to visit a reservation. My heart goes out to them. Thank you.

J. Hutto, Sr.