Comments on: Death on the Border: Who’s the Criminal Here?

By: stevenskattebo

stevenskattebo — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:04:47 +0000

Many people still don't understand: there is no line for poor people. Those who manage to get on a waiting list are either relatives of U.S. citizens or foreigners with substantial money in a bank account. There is no line for poor immigrants. The border wall and U.S. immigration laws are immoral, because Jesus said “Blessed are the poor”.

By: stevenskattebo

stevenskattebo — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:04:47 +0000

By: SamHamilton

SamHamilton — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 22:06:53 +0000

So are you arguing that the moral policy is to allow anyone to cross any national border by any means? Surely, it is not immoral to require people to undergo a minor background check for past criminal activity or require people to pass through certain checkpoints on the border. Or is it, in your mind?

By: JoannaCW

JoannaCW — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:13:20 +0000

Yes; but not all human laws are in accordance with God's law. And there's something very warped about our immigration policy. We depend on the labor of illegal immigrants. We also pursue trade policies that severely restrict their opportunities in their own countries. Then we criminalize them for immigrating.

By: JoannaCW

JoannaCW — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:11:38 +0000

Who's stealing? Many of these immigrants do the work that enables you and me to eat. They do it for pathetic wages. They pay into Social Security and don't withdraw from it. Some come because our 'free trade' policy allows us to flood their markets with cheap grain, thus putting local farmers out of business.
And do you have any idea of how hard it is to gain legal immigration status? The wait time? The bribes?
Joanna, another Quaker

By: anotherqauker

anotherqauker — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:24:47 +0000

t his passage has nothing to do with ILLEGAL aliens. we treat our immagrants very well. the point is sojourners will never call them illegal. If you do something illegal you pay the conseguences. the huge discrepency in standard is mexicos fault not ours. tell them to raise their standards. If there is a policy it is to have mexico fix their problems so they stop comeing over here. It irks me to keep trying to shove scripture into such issues when you cant even speak truth about it. use the scripture fine just say they are ILLEGAL becasue that is what they are.

By: ckgmail

ckgmail — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:33:58 +0000

I would flip your argument. I do not contest the legality of closing borders and denying entrance. It may even be good policy in the short term. But I do contest the morality. I cannot cite chapter and verse, but somewhere in Leviticus it says to treat the alien among you the same as the citizen. A frequent refrain in the Deuteronomic writings is “Remember that you were an alien in the land of Egypt.”

As for policy, as long as there is the huge discrepancy in standard of living, it will not be possible to keep immigrants, documented or otherwise, from coming into the country.

By: jkc1945

jkc1945 — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:38:31 +0000

24ahead, thank you for common sense. It is getting harder and harder to find, around here. Simple fact: people cross an international border, in an attempt to leave one sovereign state and enter another, against the laws of that sovereign state. The state protects itself and enforces its laws. People get hurt, sometimes they die, in this misguided venture.
That is bad. But it is also no surprise. And it is what is going to happen when laws are knowingly violated. And being an accessory to the breaking of those laws only compounds the problem.

By: WaveTossed

WaveTossed — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:16:57 +0000

Once more posting the Cato Institute's article links -- the most sane views on "illegal immigration" and free trade.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3638

It's not a matter of some people simply deciding to deliberately flout U.S. law by waltzing over here to get Medicare and welfare benefits, as some of the people in the anti-illegal-immigrant side would have us believe. There is a huge, huge backlog that can make people wait months and years to get legal status -- and the anti-illegal people don't seem to mind this; this is because many of these people are against legal immigration as well.

As the Cato Institute explains, it's a matter that there are jobs to be filled and people willing to fill them. However, with the government interfering with the free market, we have people being subject to massive exploitation with no recourse as unscrupulous employers have them work for substandard wages in sweatshop conditions. Or else many women and young girls find themselves being sold into prostitution rings. They are told that they cannot protest, else they will be jailed and then deported.

By: Death on the Border: Who’s the Criminal Here? | The Just Life

Death on the Border: Who’s the Criminal Here? | The Just Life — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 10:18:54 +0000

[...] Death on the Border: Who’s the Criminal Here? The Just Life | Dec 01, 2009 | 0 comments [...]

By: ford49

ford49 — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:12:47 +0000

Why don't you go to Wallis' appearances??? I checked your website and I doubt your “enlightement” will do much to “help” Wallis to see your brand of iilumination…

By: SamHamilton

SamHamilton — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:15:20 +0000

Unless you believe that national borders should not exist (definitely an arguable position, but I don't see anyone here making it) there is nothing immoral about erecting physical borders or denying people entry into your country. There may be good policy reasons not to do so, but there's nothing immoral about doing so.

By: anotherqauker

anotherqauker — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:09:41 +0000

hello they are ILLEGALS. if they want in they can come in legally. our immagrants are NOT treated bad at all. your post is rather deceptive in wording. It is rather obvious why you dont use the term illegal. If I was to steal from you or anyone else I face the conseguences, why not with illegals. To bring the idea of their kids in doesnt matter. If again I stole or killed someone else, they might have kids and so could I Do we just help me out becasue I have kids ignoring what illegal action I took NOPE. I notice you all put no story of all the ganges rapping and murdering along the border. wonder why. get the stories right. your being dishonest.

By: 24AheadDotCom

24AheadDotCom — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:06:23 +0000

The U.S. has a right to enforce its laws, including immigration laws. The people who are more responsible for the deaths in the desert are those inside the U.S. (and the leaders of MX) who encourage people to cross. If the far-left wasn't so supportive of illegal activity, many fewer people would try to cross, resulting in fewer deaths. Instead, the far-left is like a local sociopath who cuts a hole in a fence around an abandoned swimming pool in order to "help" the kids in the neighborhood.

More here. If anyone would like to help Wallis and his friends see the light, go to their public appearances and make that point to them on video, then upload their response to Youtube.

By: ckgmail

ckgmail — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:07:10 +0000

Border Walls—What Would Jesus Do?

“He [God]. . . has broken down the dividing wall.” St. Paul
“Something there is about a wall, that wants it down.” Robert Frost, in “Mending Walls”
“Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall.” Ronald Reagan

On the weekend of October 3-4, I was in El Paso attending my final meeting of the Board of Directors of the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas.(Yes, one can be a Christian and an ACLU member.)) Due to some health difficulties and to the increasing difficulties of reaching meeting venues from my home in the Panhandle, I had been contemplating resigning my post for quite some time. My term was to expire in April 2010, so I decided to hold on through the October ’09 quarterly meeting, and get a chance for a brief visit to El Paso as part of the deal. I’m glad I did.

On Saturday afternoon after we sat through the usual processes of approval of minutes of the former meeting and various reports, we loaded up in cars and went to Annunciation House, a shelter for undocumented people which operates openly and with at least tacit ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) approval. In fact, from time to time ICE refers people to Annunciation House rather than putting them in detention.

People at Annunciation House come into direct contact with immigrants, both documented and undocumented. One documented worker in Colorado died with his surviving spouse living in Mexico. In order to get her Social Security survivor’s benefits she has to be legally in the United States for a thirty day period once every six months. We were told that this requirement does not apply to survivors in Europe or Canada, but I have not been able to verify this claim.

The situation at the border near El Paso is extremely serious due to the activities of the drug cartels. People with no involvement with the cartels are routinely slaughtered for no offense but being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The police, and increasingly the Mexican army, look the other way. Family members on the wrong side of a dispute are routinely threatened and frequently murdered. People whose lives are threatened are routinely denied asylum by ICE.

Later in the day we visited the border fence between New Mexico and Mexico. When we got out of the van and approached the fence, children from the other side began flocking toward us. While I do not speak Spanish, I could understand that they were asking for “una dollare.”

What would Jesus do? I wondered if he recognizes that dividing wall of partition between us. I didn’t wonder long. My faith tells me emphatically that he does not!

That evening we dined sumptuously (and expensively) at a restaurant near the wall, bringing into stark contrast our abundance with the poverty of the children on the other side.

What would Jesus do?

Mr. Obama, tear down that wall!

Charles Kiker