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Oppression of Women: The Oldest Injustice in Human History

by Eugene Cho 12-01-2008 | 2:32pm
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In every culture and in every part of the world, this injustice is present. What is the oldest injustice in the world?

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It is the way that "we" view, treat, and oppress women.

As a young Korean man, I learned through the Confucian culture and worldview that women were born to serve their fathers as young girls, their husbands when they got married, and their grown sons when they were older mothers. Their lives revolved around men.

As a Christian man, I learned that women should be our "partners." They should be quiet, submissive, and know their place, obey and honor their fathers, love and submit to their husbands, and raise godly sons and daughters.

Why didn't I learn that women and men are both created in the beautiful image of God? Why didn't I learn that while we have different roles, we are also created equal in the image of God? I still recall this e-mail that I received from a female congregant after a sermon I gave at Quest regarding the injustice against women:

But at one point today, you said, "Women, you were created equal to men in the image of God." I mainly write because I don't know if you realize how powerful that statement was. I don't know if you realized what it would feel like to hear that statement coming from a man - what it would mean to me, and possibly to other individual women and men. You didn't even say it to me individually

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by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 1:52am

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to? Am I (a male) supposed to get sympathy because I can't get pregnant and give birth to a child?

by: yowie9644

12-03-2008 @ 5:46am

Men have been using Ephesians 5:22 to force women into subjugation for two millenia. If only 5:21 hadn't been seperated from 5:22 and a subheading added so it looks like a different subject: 5:21 says "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

How can there be a dominant /submissive relationship going on when *both* are submissive? It just can't work. You can't submit to another whilst they are also submitting to you, its silly and illogical. I started to think that 'submit' perhaps is not the right word for the original Greek meaning.

Scouring through Strong's concordance, and praying hard about that one verse that has bugged me greatly, I was given a new word that I believe fits the original Greek: Uphold.

So, here's how Ephesians 5:21 and 5:22 might be read using the word 'uphold' rather than 'submit': 21 Uphold one another out of reverence for Christ. 22.Wives, uphold your husbands as to the Lord.

I personally think "uphold" works alot better - its means to encourage, support, honour, respect, loyalty, to work together, of being a positive influence, being a good example, playing as a team member rather than an individual, to be helpful and ensure that the person being upheld is inspired and feels capable of being the be the best person they can be. This fits the original Greek word upotasso (Strong's number 5293) which in a non-military sense meant: a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden. It is *not* about blind and submissive obedience.

Uphold is a positive word, two people can uphold each other without either of them having to be strictly obedient and submissive to the other.

One word, two millenia of inequality

I like 'uphold' a whole heap better, and as a woman, I feel very much able to uphold my husband into the light of Jesus without in any way feeling less about myself. And he can also uphold me without being any less of a man.

by: mscynthia

12-02-2008 @ 10:24am

Dear Eugene :

What amazing timing you have. My girlfriend Shree, who is working on her Doctorate in Clinical Psychology is starting a colaborative project with the goal of providing mental health services to women in the third world. She is also a skillful writer and poet. I encourage you to engage her on this subject. As a first generation Christian she has a heart and a coherent voice for the rights of women.

http://projectsatori.org/

She can also be contacted on a Facebook causes page:

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/105331?m=d4b17d...

This project is just getting started so there is lots of opportunity for talented and resourceful women to get involved and help her make a difference.
Project Satori asks the question:

"What is being done about the mental and emotional well being of women and girls who endure these atrocious violations of their rights as a result of cultural mandate and socio-political neglect?"

Project Satori: Committed to Helping Women Find Voice, Hope, and Healing Through Psychological Education and Intervention

Project Satori is a collaborative effort of students at Pacifica Graduate Institute, U.C. Berkeley, and several student communities in the Eastern United States committed to making mental health and psychological healing a reality for women in the third world. Specifically we are seeking to partner with NGOs worldwide to help raise public awareness around the mental health needs of women in the third world, create educational materials that will address issues of domestic violence, rape, and sexual exploitation from a psychotherapeutic perspective, and create mental health/counseling facilities in village communities, based on localized, culture-specific mental health needs assessments. We are an organization that operates from a platform of indigenous ethics, and as professionals, we seek to learn about local healing practices, so that the interventions we offer and participate in embrace indigenous wisdom, and also integrate psychotherapeutic practices that can be of greatest benefit to those seeking help in terms of psychological trauma.

by: sonelta

12-02-2008 @ 11:16am

I always find it curious how, in this debate on women and their rights, equality etc how often the topic of being created in the image of God gets neglected and ignored. Both, male and female were created in the image of God, created partners. To be in true partnership surely means co-equality, not one being more dominant than the other. God has always spoken FOR women. He gifts them equally as he does men.
I wish more people...no, I mean...MEN, would speak out against this. I remember how affirming it was to be a women in ministry supported by God-fearing men, who believed in equality based on us all being created in God's image. What power to change the world?!
http://otiumsanctum.com

by: SisterMarie

12-02-2008 @ 2:30pm

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to?

Well, to respond directly to your question, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States does not permit women clergy. The largest non-Protestant denomination (i.e. Roman Catholic) does not allow women priests. The Latter Day Saints (Mormon) church is also male dominated. If these examples are not enough, I could list many more examples where if the discrimination against women by churches if not de jure is certainly de facto.

by: squeaky

12-03-2008 @ 5:06pm

That really does put a whole different slant on that verse. I will have to do my own word study and spend some time with Strong's.

I suspect the reason the translators chose submit over uphold was that the concept of a woman being equal to a man in a marriage relationship was very foreign to the culture of those interpreting the original Greek. Based on the cultural perspective of those interpreting, "uphold" couldn't possibly be what Paul meant, so they went for the word that matched their culture better.

Even without interpreting the original as "uphold" rather than "submit", however, using the verse as an excuse to make women subservient to men is completely rendered inappropriate by doing as you suggest--read the next verse. I have, in fact, heard sermons, given by men, who have made that very point. In any strong, Godly relationship, each party submits to each other as Christ did. Pretty straightforward--providing one reads the entire passage.

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 10:30pm

Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?

On another subject... women doctors. I know of many women who have taken up the seats in medical school in order to practice medicine part-time or not at all. Given the limited number of doctors allowed by policies promulgated by the AMA and politicians don't you think this appears to be selfish. It seems a man would be more likely to actually work full-time at being a doctor for a greater number of years. Why is that?

by: SisterMarie

12-03-2008 @ 12:50am

"Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?"

My concept of God does not include Him as a puppeteer puling strings and making things happen. God didn't cause the holocaust or give Hitler permission to kill 6 million Jews. God did not cause the situation in Darfur. And even though our church leaders practice discrimination towards women ( and I certainly do not equate that with the atrocities that I just listed), that is not something that can be attributed to God. And no, I can't think of any rationale that would justify the continuation of those policies.

As far as women doctors are concerned, whatever policies that are practiced there are dictated by secular institutions and not organizations that claim to be carrying out God's will on earth. When I become sick, I don't care about the sex of the doctor treating me - I just want someone who will listen to me describe my symptoms and respond with the best medical knowledge possible.

by: yowie9644

12-03-2008 @ 5:46am

Men have been using Ephesians 5:22 to force women into subjugation for two millenia. If only 5:21 hadn't been seperated from 5:22 and a subheading added so it looks like a different subject: 5:21 says "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

How can there be a dominant /submissive relationship going on when *both* are submissive? It just can't work. You can't submit to another whilst they are also submitting to you, its silly and illogical. I started to think that 'submit' perhaps is not the right word for the original Greek meaning.

Scouring through Strong's concordance, and praying hard about that one verse that has bugged me greatly, I was given a new word that I believe fits the original Greek: Uphold.

So, here's how Ephesians 5:21 and 5:22 might be read using the word 'uphold' rather than 'submit': 21 Uphold one another out of reverence for Christ. 22.Wives, uphold your husbands as to the Lord.

I personally think "uphold" works alot better - its means to encourage, support, honour, respect, loyalty, to work together, of being a positive influence, being a good example, playing as a team member rather than an individual, to be helpful and ensure that the person being upheld is inspired and feels capable of being the be the best person they can be. This fits the original Greek word upotasso (Strong's number 5293) which in a non-military sense meant: a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden. It is *not* about blind and submissive obedience.

Uphold is a positive word, two people can uphold each other without either of them having to be strictly obedient and submissive to the other.

One word, two millenia of inequality

I like 'uphold' a whole heap better, and as a woman, I feel very much able to uphold my husband into the light of Jesus without in any way feeling less about myself. And he can also uphold me without being any less of a man.

by: squeaky

12-03-2008 @ 5:06pm

That really does put a whole different slant on that verse. I will have to do my own word study and spend some time with Strong's.

I suspect the reason the translators chose submit over uphold was that the concept of a woman being equal to a man in a marriage relationship was very foreign to the culture of those interpreting the original Greek. Based on the cultural perspective of those interpreting, "uphold" couldn't possibly be what Paul meant, so they went for the word that matched their culture better.

Even without interpreting the original as "uphold" rather than "submit", however, using the verse as an excuse to make women subservient to men is completely rendered inappropriate by doing as you suggest--read the next verse. I have, in fact, heard sermons, given by men, who have made that very point. In any strong, Godly relationship, each party submits to each other as Christ did. Pretty straightforward--providing one reads the entire passage.

by: SisterMarie

12-01-2008 @ 8:36pm

We may not tolerate throwing acid into the faces of women, but you need not look any further than what we refer to as "organized religion" in our country to witness the perpetuation of gender inequality. In fact the only religious sector here in which parity has been realized are those TV evangelists who have proven themselves as men's equals in ripping off their congregants.

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 1:52am

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to? Am I (a male) supposed to get sympathy because I can't get pregnant and give birth to a child?

by: mscynthia

12-02-2008 @ 10:24am

Dear Eugene :

What amazing timing you have. My girlfriend Shree, who is working on her Doctorate in Clinical Psychology is starting a colaborative project with the goal of providing mental health services to women in the third world. She is also a skillful writer and poet. I encourage you to engage her on this subject. As a first generation Christian she has a heart and a coherent voice for the rights of women.

http://projectsatori.org/

She can also be contacted on a Facebook causes page:

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/105331?m=d4b17d...

This project is just getting started so there is lots of opportunity for talented and resourceful women to get involved and help her make a difference.
Project Satori asks the question:

"What is being done about the mental and emotional well being of women and girls who endure these atrocious violations of their rights as a result of cultural mandate and socio-political neglect?"

Project Satori: Committed to Helping Women Find Voice, Hope, and Healing Through Psychological Education and Intervention

Project Satori is a collaborative effort of students at Pacifica Graduate Institute, U.C. Berkeley, and several student communities in the Eastern United States committed to making mental health and psychological healing a reality for women in the third world. Specifically we are seeking to partner with NGOs worldwide to help raise public awareness around the mental health needs of women in the third world, create educational materials that will address issues of domestic violence, rape, and sexual exploitation from a psychotherapeutic perspective, and create mental health/counseling facilities in village communities, based on localized, culture-specific mental health needs assessments. We are an organization that operates from a platform of indigenous ethics, and as professionals, we seek to learn about local healing practices, so that the interventions we offer and participate in embrace indigenous wisdom, and also integrate psychotherapeutic practices that can be of greatest benefit to those seeking help in terms of psychological trauma.

by: sonelta

12-02-2008 @ 11:16am

I always find it curious how, in this debate on women and their rights, equality etc how often the topic of being created in the image of God gets neglected and ignored. Both, male and female were created in the image of God, created partners. To be in true partnership surely means co-equality, not one being more dominant than the other. God has always spoken FOR women. He gifts them equally as he does men.
I wish more people...no, I mean...MEN, would speak out against this. I remember how affirming it was to be a women in ministry supported by God-fearing men, who believed in equality based on us all being created in God's image. What power to change the world?!
http://otiumsanctum.com

by: SisterMarie

12-02-2008 @ 2:30pm

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to?

Well, to respond directly to your question, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States does not permit women clergy. The largest non-Protestant denomination (i.e. Roman Catholic) does not allow women priests. The Latter Day Saints (Mormon) church is also male dominated. If these examples are not enough, I could list many more examples where if the discrimination against women by churches if not de jure is certainly de facto.

by: SisterMarie

12-01-2008 @ 8:36pm

We may not tolerate throwing acid into the faces of women, but you need not look any further than what we refer to as "organized religion" in our country to witness the perpetuation of gender inequality. In fact the only religious sector here in which parity has been realized are those TV evangelists who have proven themselves as men's equals in ripping off their congregants.

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 10:30pm

Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?

On another subject... women doctors. I know of many women who have taken up the seats in medical school in order to practice medicine part-time or not at all. Given the limited number of doctors allowed by policies promulgated by the AMA and politicians don't you think this appears to be selfish. It seems a man would be more likely to actually work full-time at being a doctor for a greater number of years. Why is that?

by: SisterMarie

12-03-2008 @ 12:50am

"Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?"

My concept of God does not include Him as a puppeteer puling strings and making things happen. God didn't cause the holocaust or give Hitler permission to kill 6 million Jews. God did not cause the situation in Darfur. And even though our church leaders practice discrimination towards women ( and I certainly do not equate that with the atrocities that I just listed), that is not something that can be attributed to God. And no, I can't think of any rationale that would justify the continuation of those policies.

As far as women doctors are concerned, whatever policies that are practiced there are dictated by secular institutions and not organizations that claim to be carrying out God's will on earth. When I become sick, I don't care about the sex of the doctor treating me - I just want someone who will listen to me describe my symptoms and respond with the best medical knowledge possible.

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by: SisterMarie

12-01-2008 @ 8:36pm

We may not tolerate throwing acid into the faces of women, but you need not look any further than what we refer to as "organized religion" in our country to witness the perpetuation of gender inequality. In fact the only religious sector here in which parity has been realized are those TV evangelists who have proven themselves as men's equals in ripping off their congregants.

by: SisterMarie

12-01-2008 @ 8:36pm

We may not tolerate throwing acid into the faces of women, but you need not look any further than what we refer to as "organized religion" in our country to witness the perpetuation of gender inequality. In fact the only religious sector here in which parity has been realized are those TV evangelists who have proven themselves as men's equals in ripping off their congregants.

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 1:52am

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to? Am I (a male) supposed to get sympathy because I can't get pregnant and give birth to a child?

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 1:52am

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to? Am I (a male) supposed to get sympathy because I can't get pregnant and give birth to a child?

by: mscynthia

12-02-2008 @ 10:24am

Dear Eugene :

What amazing timing you have. My girlfriend Shree, who is working on her Doctorate in Clinical Psychology is starting a colaborative project with the goal of providing mental health services to women in the third world. She is also a skillful writer and poet. I encourage you to engage her on this subject. As a first generation Christian she has a heart and a coherent voice for the rights of women.

http://projectsatori.org/

She can also be contacted on a Facebook causes page:

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/105331?m=d4b17d...

This project is just getting started so there is lots of opportunity for talented and resourceful women to get involved and help her make a difference.
Project Satori asks the question:

"What is being done about the mental and emotional well being of women and girls who endure these atrocious violations of their rights as a result of cultural mandate and socio-political neglect?"

Project Satori: Committed to Helping Women Find Voice, Hope, and Healing Through Psychological Education and Intervention

Project Satori is a collaborative effort of students at Pacifica Graduate Institute, U.C. Berkeley, and several student communities in the Eastern United States committed to making mental health and psychological healing a reality for women in the third world. Specifically we are seeking to partner with NGOs worldwide to help raise public awareness around the mental health needs of women in the third world, create educational materials that will address issues of domestic violence, rape, and sexual exploitation from a psychotherapeutic perspective, and create mental health/counseling facilities in village communities, based on localized, culture-specific mental health needs assessments. We are an organization that operates from a platform of indigenous ethics, and as professionals, we seek to learn about local healing practices, so that the interventions we offer and participate in embrace indigenous wisdom, and also integrate psychotherapeutic practices that can be of greatest benefit to those seeking help in terms of psychological trauma.

by: mscynthia

12-02-2008 @ 10:24am

Dear Eugene :

What amazing timing you have. My girlfriend Shree, who is working on her Doctorate in Clinical Psychology is starting a colaborative project with the goal of providing mental health services to women in the third world. She is also a skillful writer and poet. I encourage you to engage her on this subject. As a first generation Christian she has a heart and a coherent voice for the rights of women.

http://projectsatori.org/

She can also be contacted on a Facebook causes page:

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/105331?m=d4b17d...

This project is just getting started so there is lots of opportunity for talented and resourceful women to get involved and help her make a difference.
Project Satori asks the question:

"What is being done about the mental and emotional well being of women and girls who endure these atrocious violations of their rights as a result of cultural mandate and socio-political neglect?"

Project Satori: Committed to Helping Women Find Voice, Hope, and Healing Through Psychological Education and Intervention

Project Satori is a collaborative effort of students at Pacifica Graduate Institute, U.C. Berkeley, and several student communities in the Eastern United States committed to making mental health and psychological healing a reality for women in the third world. Specifically we are seeking to partner with NGOs worldwide to help raise public awareness around the mental health needs of women in the third world, create educational materials that will address issues of domestic violence, rape, and sexual exploitation from a psychotherapeutic perspective, and create mental health/counseling facilities in village communities, based on localized, culture-specific mental health needs assessments. We are an organization that operates from a platform of indigenous ethics, and as professionals, we seek to learn about local healing practices, so that the interventions we offer and participate in embrace indigenous wisdom, and also integrate psychotherapeutic practices that can be of greatest benefit to those seeking help in terms of psychological trauma.

by: sonelta

12-02-2008 @ 11:16am

I always find it curious how, in this debate on women and their rights, equality etc how often the topic of being created in the image of God gets neglected and ignored. Both, male and female were created in the image of God, created partners. To be in true partnership surely means co-equality, not one being more dominant than the other. God has always spoken FOR women. He gifts them equally as he does men.
I wish more people...no, I mean...MEN, would speak out against this. I remember how affirming it was to be a women in ministry supported by God-fearing men, who believed in equality based on us all being created in God's image. What power to change the world?!
http://otiumsanctum.com

by: sonelta

12-02-2008 @ 11:16am

I always find it curious how, in this debate on women and their rights, equality etc how often the topic of being created in the image of God gets neglected and ignored. Both, male and female were created in the image of God, created partners. To be in true partnership surely means co-equality, not one being more dominant than the other. God has always spoken FOR women. He gifts them equally as he does men.
I wish more people...no, I mean...MEN, would speak out against this. I remember how affirming it was to be a women in ministry supported by God-fearing men, who believed in equality based on us all being created in God's image. What power to change the world?!
http://otiumsanctum.com

by: SisterMarie

12-02-2008 @ 2:30pm

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to?

Well, to respond directly to your question, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States does not permit women clergy. The largest non-Protestant denomination (i.e. Roman Catholic) does not allow women priests. The Latter Day Saints (Mormon) church is also male dominated. If these examples are not enough, I could list many more examples where if the discrimination against women by churches if not de jure is certainly de facto.

by: SisterMarie

12-02-2008 @ 2:30pm

"Gender inequality" - what behavior does that refer to?

Well, to respond directly to your question, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States does not permit women clergy. The largest non-Protestant denomination (i.e. Roman Catholic) does not allow women priests. The Latter Day Saints (Mormon) church is also male dominated. If these examples are not enough, I could list many more examples where if the discrimination against women by churches if not de jure is certainly de facto.

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 10:30pm

Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?

On another subject... women doctors. I know of many women who have taken up the seats in medical school in order to practice medicine part-time or not at all. Given the limited number of doctors allowed by policies promulgated by the AMA and politicians don't you think this appears to be selfish. It seems a man would be more likely to actually work full-time at being a doctor for a greater number of years. Why is that?

by: erbe

12-02-2008 @ 10:30pm

Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?

On another subject... women doctors. I know of many women who have taken up the seats in medical school in order to practice medicine part-time or not at all. Given the limited number of doctors allowed by policies promulgated by the AMA and politicians don't you think this appears to be selfish. It seems a man would be more likely to actually work full-time at being a doctor for a greater number of years. Why is that?

by: SisterMarie

12-03-2008 @ 12:50am

"Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?"

My concept of God does not include Him as a puppeteer puling strings and making things happen. God didn't cause the holocaust or give Hitler permission to kill 6 million Jews. God did not cause the situation in Darfur. And even though our church leaders practice discrimination towards women ( and I certainly do not equate that with the atrocities that I just listed), that is not something that can be attributed to God. And no, I can't think of any rationale that would justify the continuation of those policies.

As far as women doctors are concerned, whatever policies that are practiced there are dictated by secular institutions and not organizations that claim to be carrying out God's will on earth. When I become sick, I don't care about the sex of the doctor treating me - I just want someone who will listen to me describe my symptoms and respond with the best medical knowledge possible.

by: SisterMarie

12-03-2008 @ 12:50am

"Okay, so women are not permitted to hold certain positions. Do you think God allows this to be? For now? For how long? Can you think of reasons why women might not be permitted to hold certain positions?"

My concept of God does not include Him as a puppeteer puling strings and making things happen. God didn't cause the holocaust or give Hitler permission to kill 6 million Jews. God did not cause the situation in Darfur. And even though our church leaders practice discrimination towards women ( and I certainly do not equate that with the atrocities that I just listed), that is not something that can be attributed to God. And no, I can't think of any rationale that would justify the continuation of those policies.

As far as women doctors are concerned, whatever policies that are practiced there are dictated by secular institutions and not organizations that claim to be carrying out God's will on earth. When I become sick, I don't care about the sex of the doctor treating me - I just want someone who will listen to me describe my symptoms and respond with the best medical knowledge possible.

by: yowie9644

12-03-2008 @ 5:46am

Men have been using Ephesians 5:22 to force women into subjugation for two millenia. If only 5:21 hadn't been seperated from 5:22 and a subheading added so it looks like a different subject: 5:21 says "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

How can there be a dominant /submissive relationship going on when *both* are submissive? It just can't work. You can't submit to another whilst they are also submitting to you, its silly and illogical. I started to think that 'submit' perhaps is not the right word for the original Greek meaning.

Scouring through Strong's concordance, and praying hard about that one verse that has bugged me greatly, I was given a new word that I believe fits the original Greek: Uphold.

So, here's how Ephesians 5:21 and 5:22 might be read using the word 'uphold' rather than 'submit': 21 Uphold one another out of reverence for Christ. 22.Wives, uphold your husbands as to the Lord.

I personally think "uphold" works alot better - its means to encourage, support, honour, respect, loyalty, to work together, of being a positive influence, being a good example, playing as a team member rather than an individual, to be helpful and ensure that the person being upheld is inspired and feels capable of being the be the best person they can be. This fits the original Greek word upotasso (Strong's number 5293) which in a non-military sense meant: a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden. It is *not* about blind and submissive obedience.

Uphold is a positive word, two people can uphold each other without either of them having to be strictly obedient and submissive to the other.

One word, two millenia of inequality

I like 'uphold' a whole heap better, and as a woman, I feel very much able to uphold my husband into the light of Jesus without in any way feeling less about myself. And he can also uphold me without being any less of a man.

by: yowie9644

12-03-2008 @ 5:46am

Men have been using Ephesians 5:22 to force women into subjugation for two millenia. If only 5:21 hadn't been seperated from 5:22 and a subheading added so it looks like a different subject: 5:21 says "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

How can there be a dominant /submissive relationship going on when *both* are submissive? It just can't work. You can't submit to another whilst they are also submitting to you, its silly and illogical. I started to think that 'submit' perhaps is not the right word for the original Greek meaning.

Scouring through Strong's concordance, and praying hard about that one verse that has bugged me greatly, I was given a new word that I believe fits the original Greek: Uphold.

So, here's how Ephesians 5:21 and 5:22 might be read using the word 'uphold' rather than 'submit': 21 Uphold one another out of reverence for Christ. 22.Wives, uphold your husbands as to the Lord.

I personally think "uphold" works alot better - its means to encourage, support, honour, respect, loyalty, to work together, of being a positive influence, being a good example, playing as a team member rather than an individual, to be helpful and ensure that the person being upheld is inspired and feels capable of being the be the best person they can be. This fits the original Greek word upotasso (Strong's number 5293) which in a non-military sense meant: a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden. It is *not* about blind and submissive obedience.

Uphold is a positive word, two people can uphold each other without either of them having to be strictly obedient and submissive to the other.

One word, two millenia of inequality

I like 'uphold' a whole heap better, and as a woman, I feel very much able to uphold my husband into the light of Jesus without in any way feeling less about myself. And he can also uphold me without being any less of a man.

by: squeaky

12-03-2008 @ 5:06pm

That really does put a whole different slant on that verse. I will have to do my own word study and spend some time with Strong's.

I suspect the reason the translators chose submit over uphold was that the concept of a woman being equal to a man in a marriage relationship was very foreign to the culture of those interpreting the original Greek. Based on the cultural perspective of those interpreting, "uphold" couldn't possibly be what Paul meant, so they went for the word that matched their culture better.

Even without interpreting the original as "uphold" rather than "submit", however, using the verse as an excuse to make women subservient to men is completely rendered inappropriate by doing as you suggest--read the next verse. I have, in fact, heard sermons, given by men, who have made that very point. In any strong, Godly relationship, each party submits to each other as Christ did. Pretty straightforward--providing one reads the entire passage.

by: squeaky

12-03-2008 @ 5:06pm

That really does put a whole different slant on that verse. I will have to do my own word study and spend some time with Strong's.

I suspect the reason the translators chose submit over uphold was that the concept of a woman being equal to a man in a marriage relationship was very foreign to the culture of those interpreting the original Greek. Based on the cultural perspective of those interpreting, "uphold" couldn't possibly be what Paul meant, so they went for the word that matched their culture better.

Even without interpreting the original as "uphold" rather than "submit", however, using the verse as an excuse to make women subservient to men is completely rendered inappropriate by doing as you suggest--read the next verse. I have, in fact, heard sermons, given by men, who have made that very point. In any strong, Godly relationship, each party submits to each other as Christ did. Pretty straightforward--providing one reads the entire passage.