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Blagojevich, Illinois' Corruption, and the Reformers Who've Fought It

by Tim King 12-12-2008 | 5:30pm
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Somebody had to say it, and they came from Hyde Park.

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It was open knowledge among people in and around Springfield. Legislators and lobbyists alike openly talked about the fact that the governor would want to appoint somebody who would benefit him.

Illinois State Senator Kwame Raoul said in The New York Times today what anybody with personal experience in Illinois politics was thinking. His words made a decided break from the opening lines of the front page coverage on Blagojevich yesterday:

Little in Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich's background prepared the people of Illinois for the man who was revealed in the criminal complaint that dropped like a bombshell here on Tuesday. Delusional, narcissistic, vengeful and profane, Mr. Blagojevich as portrayed by federal prosecutors shocked even his most ardent detractors.

Before coming to Sojourners I spent two years as a community organizer and campaign consultant in Chicago. My relatively brief tenure there hardly makes me a Springfield insider, but you don't need to be one to hear the stories of corruption and see a few of the deeds yourself. A couple of drinks after hours in a bar by the State House and you'll learn all you need to know. An FBI investigator was quoted yesterday as saying, "I can tell you one thing: If (Illinois) isn't the most corrupt state in the United States, it's certainly one hell of a competitor." I'm pretty sure he's right.

If found guilty, Blagojevich will be the fourth (Kerner, Walker, and Ryan before him) of the state's last eight governors to be convicted on corruption charges or white collar crime. Depending on how you count, in the same time period about one third of Chicago aldermen have been arrested on various charges. To add on to the general corruption, Illinois government has been in virtual gridlock over the past few years while the Democratic leadership that controlled the House, Senate, and the Governor's office fought with each other.

That, however, is not the whole picture of Illinois politics. While they have never managed to arrest power from the establishment, there is a small tradition of political independents who have taken on the corrupt system directly. By speaking out, Raoul, who inherited Obama's state Senate seat, gives reason to hope that he will carry on a Hyde Park tradition of rough and tumble independent politics inaugurated by Alderman Leon Despres.

Despres fought for years in Chicago's City Council against corrupt Machine politics. His memoir Challenging the Daley Machine is a testament to its power. When I met with him last year and at the age of 99, he still had some fire, and at the age of 100 he is still writing! He stood alone, for a long time the only alderman to introduce civil rights legislation, and would consistently have his microphone shut off by the mayor during council meetings.

Alderman Toni Preckwinkle now leads the independent Hyde Park charge against corruption and political cronyism. After losing twice for a seat in her ward, she built an independent political organization that not only fights the Machine, it wins concessions too. Preckwinkle was one of Obama's first political patrons, and her support can make or break a politician in that neighborhood.

From his short tenure in the Illinois Senate and his words today in the Times, it looks like Raoul will be carrying on this fight.

Obama cut his teeth in this independent political tradition that targeted corruption. He made some starts at carrying this into Congress by his work to pass "sunshine" legislation, but raised some eyebrows by refusing public financing for his campaign. The national outrage over Blagojevich sends an overwhelming mandate to our President-elect: Corruption is a bipartisan problem, and it's time to clean it up.

In case the Democrats need any motivation, I would be remiss not to mention that Louisiana, a state that has the reputation for being just as corrupt as Illinois, ousted Democratic Congressman William J. Jefferson who has been under indictment on corruption charges for several years now. He was replaced by America's first Vietnamese-American Congressman, Anh Cao, in an upset win.

Tim King is the special assistant to the CEO for Sojourners.

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by: Kevin Wayne

12-13-2008 @ 11:49pm

This tries to cast Obama in the best possible light given the circumstances. And I have to admit, I doubt there's muc connection between him and the Ill. Governor. But the fact is, he didn't stay on public financing, and McCain had him on one point in the debates- the subject of his independence from the leadership of his party.

Time will tell.

by: kevin47

12-14-2008 @ 4:47am

If your knowledge of any political landscape is achieved without going to a bar, then you know nothing of that landscape. Do you think having two beers renders one deaf? In the case of Blago, the dude's on tape, is he not? No insinuations needed.

This article is spot on.

by: CStat

12-14-2008 @ 5:05am

Happy Holidays to you too, Chris!

Cathy

by: littleroundtop

02-02-2009 @ 6:31pm

NMROD you are so right , Greed does not discriminate.

by: NMRod

12-12-2008 @ 6:42pm

Just as Republicans were not "God's Only Party," neither are they "Greed's Only Party!"

by: CStat

12-12-2008 @ 10:17pm

After an endless stream of corrupt politicians we need not make such a big deal over this one guy who many suspect to have some sort of mental disorder. Also, Chris Matthews reported on a poll last night that listed states in terms of corrupt histories, and Illinois was 18th down the list. Since the author of this article states that he was only in Illinois government for 2 years of community service making him unlikely to have been dealing with people in powerful positions, I think he may be making some faulty assumptions and overstating the situation. Also, he admits getting his information after "a couple of drinks after hours in a bar near the State House", which makes me question the reliability of his sources. If I want to hear this kind of he said/she said remarks that imply all sorts of things, I will listen to Fox News. The media in general has become filled with sarcastic, hateful dialog during which they hurl all sorts of ugly accusations and name calling, and I am so tired of it. If you read over this article again, you may notice that Mr. King does not mention doing any kind of research but relied on gossip and quotes by several people who made generalized, unsubstantiated statements to the media. We have serious problems in this country that we need to focus on and this is just another distraction. I don't get why this article was published at all. It is not worthy of this organization and will do nothing to make people more peaceful, kind, and less judgemental. I appreciate and recommend this website and its good works. Let's keep it that way!

by: conradsteinhoff

12-12-2008 @ 11:09pm

I lived in Hyde Park for 25 years. I knew Leon Depres. My fond recall is of seeing him tooling around Hyde Park on his bicycle. I'm glad to hear he's still with us. I also remember our State Rep, Bob Mann. Bob said to me one time, referring to the State Legislature, "The Illinois Legislature contains some of the best minds of the 11th Century."
As to Chicago political corruption, and Hyde Park's relationship to it, King is correct. It is an island of progressive and mostly clean politics. Barack Obama is identified with Chicago politics Hyde Park-style. King is also correct that corruption, in terms of cronyism, nepotism, etc. was, and I suspect still is, endemic to Chicago politics. The odd thing is, the city works quite well. I love Chicago. At times I long to be back there.

by: savvyguy

12-13-2008 @ 12:14am

cstat; get real and stop blaming fox for your problems in understanding. if you don't see the corruption in obama's town you are blinded by your self. the money is controlled by the machine and politics is money. obama raised nearly 1 billion. nearly half from unions. if hyde park is a haven of virtue then good! and so what. you can not clean up obama with an article like this. we need full disclosure of his fund raising. and we may see some surprises when oblanovich starts talking.

by: jeffp

12-13-2008 @ 12:32am

I lived in downstate Illinois (someplace other than Chicago) most of my life. The political corruption mostly comes from Chicago. Our family business tried doing business in Chicago but found it to corrupt. The corruption was usually hid in high-minded well meaning programs or projects. The projects and programs were just vehicles for kickbacks and bribes. Being from downstate, we just didn't do business this way. Money kept being poured into Chicago with little or no change except people like Tony Rezko getting very wealthy.

So when Obama or Rahm Emanuel start announcing programs and projects my first thought is "Who's getting paid?" Who is the next Tony Rezko?

by: wayouthere

12-13-2008 @ 12:59am

I found this the other day. I'm sure its been used already to describe the state of government and the 2-old parties. "Through justice a nation is established, but many gifts tear it down." I take that to mean many bribes tear down justice and the nation follows. There's an economic element to most forms of injustice. With so many lobbyists, special interests and retired politicians coming back as lobbyists, how could there not be wide-spread bribery and law-selling? I don't know what's more unsettling: terrorism or knowing the Democrats and Republicans are still in charge.

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 1:27am

Hey Cstat,

With that attitude, nothing in our country will ever be accomplished. Because Illinois might be historically, the 18th most corrupt state, we should stop making a big deal about corrupt politicians? What is your logic?

Nothing in King's article is he said/she said. He has stated an idea rather succinctly and tactfully. He is speaking of the people of Chicago who have experienced corruption themselves; those who have some experience in Chicago politics. He is adding to public discussion regarding government accountability.

Nothing in King's article is sarcastic or hateful; however, your response comes much closer to such an accusation. You call King's article a distraction from serious problems in this country, but it is only highlighting the serious problem of government corruption - a problem that has long existed and is rarely prosecuted. He is acknowledging this fact, and he admits that more needs to be done. Through all this, King somehow brings hope to the situation, and you call it a distraction.

This article is reflective in nature, and at no point claims to be the end of the discussion. This is not a negative, judgmental, or unkind article. It simply looks to hold government accountable - something this organization certainly stands for. A presence of non-violent protest does not mean an absence of peace.

What are you looking for? Academic research? Legal precedent? Find a dissertation on the Chicago machine or read Governor Ryan's case.

Best,

Chris

by: Eric77

12-13-2008 @ 1:57am

I, too, heard about the state rankings in corruption. The rankings to which you refer aren't particularly useful. The statistics rank the states by the number of public corruption convictions the federal government has won on a per-capita basis over the last ten years.

These rankings don't include state convictions. In addition, a couple corruption cases in a state like North Dakota (#1 on the list), because of its small population, could swing the data way out of proportion to the actual level of corruption. Also, as this only counts convictions, it could be that some states are just better than others of exposing corruption than others.

All in all, I don't find this ranking particularly helpful.

by: littleroundtop

02-02-2009 @ 6:31pm

NMROD you are so right , Greed does not discriminate.

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 6:03am

Thanks for the response, Chris. I never meant to imply that corruption go unpunished. I am just so ready for Americans to stop arguing over who is the worst person or party and move on toward a brighter day.?

Cathy

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 5:56am

Thanks for the info, Eric.

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 4:56pm

I'm sorry, Cathy. I came off harsh. Thanks for being a good sport. I understand your frustration completely. The truth is that both parties have skeletons, and letting them go means that they could remain forever. With all of our economic problems, it's easy for us to want to move on from the problems we already had. Unfortunately, if/when we are done with this recession, all of our old problems will still be here. I hope you have very happy holidays, and please accept my apology.

Chris

by: erbe

12-13-2008 @ 5:33pm

For Blagojevich and his ties to the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) read the article, 'Blagojevich and Union Go Way Back" in the 12/13/08 edition of the Wall Street Journal. It will be interesting to see how this relationship worked to the benefit of both the union and Blagojevich.

by: letjusticerolldown

12-13-2008 @ 7:06pm

e.g. If North Dakota and Illinois both convicted one Govenor on corruption charges (along with all other states), North Dakota would rank second in the nation on per capita convictions and Illinois would rank 45th. Their per capita conviction rate would be 20 times that of Illinois.

And why would one presume a state is most corrupt becase it enforces laws against corruption???

by: Kevin Wayne

12-13-2008 @ 11:49pm

This tries to cast Obama in the best possible light given the circumstances. And I have to admit, I doubt there's muc connection between him and the Ill. Governor. But the fact is, he didn't stay on public financing, and McCain had him on one point in the debates- the subject of his independence from the leadership of his party.

Time will tell.

by: NMRod

12-12-2008 @ 6:42pm

Just as Republicans were not "God's Only Party," neither are they "Greed's Only Party!"

by: kevin47

12-14-2008 @ 4:47am

If your knowledge of any political landscape is achieved without going to a bar, then you know nothing of that landscape. Do you think having two beers renders one deaf? In the case of Blago, the dude's on tape, is he not? No insinuations needed.

This article is spot on.

by: CStat

12-14-2008 @ 5:05am

Happy Holidays to you too, Chris!

Cathy

by: CStat

12-12-2008 @ 10:17pm

After an endless stream of corrupt politicians we need not make such a big deal over this one guy who many suspect to have some sort of mental disorder. Also, Chris Matthews reported on a poll last night that listed states in terms of corrupt histories, and Illinois was 18th down the list. Since the author of this article states that he was only in Illinois government for 2 years of community service making him unlikely to have been dealing with people in powerful positions, I think he may be making some faulty assumptions and overstating the situation. Also, he admits getting his information after "a couple of drinks after hours in a bar near the State House", which makes me question the reliability of his sources. If I want to hear this kind of he said/she said remarks that imply all sorts of things, I will listen to Fox News. The media in general has become filled with sarcastic, hateful dialog during which they hurl all sorts of ugly accusations and name calling, and I am so tired of it. If you read over this article again, you may notice that Mr. King does not mention doing any kind of research but relied on gossip and quotes by several people who made generalized, unsubstantiated statements to the media. We have serious problems in this country that we need to focus on and this is just another distraction. I don't get why this article was published at all. It is not worthy of this organization and will do nothing to make people more peaceful, kind, and less judgemental. I appreciate and recommend this website and its good works. Let's keep it that way!

by: conradsteinhoff

12-12-2008 @ 11:09pm

I lived in Hyde Park for 25 years. I knew Leon Depres. My fond recall is of seeing him tooling around Hyde Park on his bicycle. I'm glad to hear he's still with us. I also remember our State Rep, Bob Mann. Bob said to me one time, referring to the State Legislature, "The Illinois Legislature contains some of the best minds of the 11th Century."
As to Chicago political corruption, and Hyde Park's relationship to it, King is correct. It is an island of progressive and mostly clean politics. Barack Obama is identified with Chicago politics Hyde Park-style. King is also correct that corruption, in terms of cronyism, nepotism, etc. was, and I suspect still is, endemic to Chicago politics. The odd thing is, the city works quite well. I love Chicago. At times I long to be back there.

by: savvyguy

12-13-2008 @ 12:14am

cstat; get real and stop blaming fox for your problems in understanding. if you don't see the corruption in obama's town you are blinded by your self. the money is controlled by the machine and politics is money. obama raised nearly 1 billion. nearly half from unions. if hyde park is a haven of virtue then good! and so what. you can not clean up obama with an article like this. we need full disclosure of his fund raising. and we may see some surprises when oblanovich starts talking.

by: jeffp

12-13-2008 @ 12:32am

I lived in downstate Illinois (someplace other than Chicago) most of my life. The political corruption mostly comes from Chicago. Our family business tried doing business in Chicago but found it to corrupt. The corruption was usually hid in high-minded well meaning programs or projects. The projects and programs were just vehicles for kickbacks and bribes. Being from downstate, we just didn't do business this way. Money kept being poured into Chicago with little or no change except people like Tony Rezko getting very wealthy.

So when Obama or Rahm Emanuel start announcing programs and projects my first thought is "Who's getting paid?" Who is the next Tony Rezko?

by: wayouthere

12-13-2008 @ 12:59am

I found this the other day. I'm sure its been used already to describe the state of government and the 2-old parties. "Through justice a nation is established, but many gifts tear it down." I take that to mean many bribes tear down justice and the nation follows. There's an economic element to most forms of injustice. With so many lobbyists, special interests and retired politicians coming back as lobbyists, how could there not be wide-spread bribery and law-selling? I don't know what's more unsettling: terrorism or knowing the Democrats and Republicans are still in charge.

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 1:27am

Hey Cstat,

With that attitude, nothing in our country will ever be accomplished. Because Illinois might be historically, the 18th most corrupt state, we should stop making a big deal about corrupt politicians? What is your logic?

Nothing in King's article is he said/she said. He has stated an idea rather succinctly and tactfully. He is speaking of the people of Chicago who have experienced corruption themselves; those who have some experience in Chicago politics. He is adding to public discussion regarding government accountability.

Nothing in King's article is sarcastic or hateful; however, your response comes much closer to such an accusation. You call King's article a distraction from serious problems in this country, but it is only highlighting the serious problem of government corruption - a problem that has long existed and is rarely prosecuted. He is acknowledging this fact, and he admits that more needs to be done. Through all this, King somehow brings hope to the situation, and you call it a distraction.

This article is reflective in nature, and at no point claims to be the end of the discussion. This is not a negative, judgmental, or unkind article. It simply looks to hold government accountable - something this organization certainly stands for. A presence of non-violent protest does not mean an absence of peace.

What are you looking for? Academic research? Legal precedent? Find a dissertation on the Chicago machine or read Governor Ryan's case.

Best,

Chris

by: Eric77

12-13-2008 @ 1:57am

I, too, heard about the state rankings in corruption. The rankings to which you refer aren't particularly useful. The statistics rank the states by the number of public corruption convictions the federal government has won on a per-capita basis over the last ten years.

These rankings don't include state convictions. In addition, a couple corruption cases in a state like North Dakota (#1 on the list), because of its small population, could swing the data way out of proportion to the actual level of corruption. Also, as this only counts convictions, it could be that some states are just better than others of exposing corruption than others.

All in all, I don't find this ranking particularly helpful.

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 6:03am

Thanks for the response, Chris. I never meant to imply that corruption go unpunished. I am just so ready for Americans to stop arguing over who is the worst person or party and move on toward a brighter day.?

Cathy

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 5:56am

Thanks for the info, Eric.

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 4:56pm

I'm sorry, Cathy. I came off harsh. Thanks for being a good sport. I understand your frustration completely. The truth is that both parties have skeletons, and letting them go means that they could remain forever. With all of our economic problems, it's easy for us to want to move on from the problems we already had. Unfortunately, if/when we are done with this recession, all of our old problems will still be here. I hope you have very happy holidays, and please accept my apology.

Chris

by: erbe

12-13-2008 @ 5:33pm

For Blagojevich and his ties to the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) read the article, 'Blagojevich and Union Go Way Back" in the 12/13/08 edition of the Wall Street Journal. It will be interesting to see how this relationship worked to the benefit of both the union and Blagojevich.

by: letjusticerolldown

12-13-2008 @ 7:06pm

e.g. If North Dakota and Illinois both convicted one Govenor on corruption charges (along with all other states), North Dakota would rank second in the nation on per capita convictions and Illinois would rank 45th. Their per capita conviction rate would be 20 times that of Illinois.

And why would one presume a state is most corrupt becase it enforces laws against corruption???

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: NMRod

12-12-2008 @ 6:42pm

Just as Republicans were not "God's Only Party," neither are they "Greed's Only Party!"

by: NMRod

12-12-2008 @ 6:42pm

Just as Republicans were not "God's Only Party," neither are they "Greed's Only Party!"

by: CStat

12-12-2008 @ 10:17pm

After an endless stream of corrupt politicians we need not make such a big deal over this one guy who many suspect to have some sort of mental disorder. Also, Chris Matthews reported on a poll last night that listed states in terms of corrupt histories, and Illinois was 18th down the list. Since the author of this article states that he was only in Illinois government for 2 years of community service making him unlikely to have been dealing with people in powerful positions, I think he may be making some faulty assumptions and overstating the situation. Also, he admits getting his information after "a couple of drinks after hours in a bar near the State House", which makes me question the reliability of his sources. If I want to hear this kind of he said/she said remarks that imply all sorts of things, I will listen to Fox News. The media in general has become filled with sarcastic, hateful dialog during which they hurl all sorts of ugly accusations and name calling, and I am so tired of it. If you read over this article again, you may notice that Mr. King does not mention doing any kind of research but relied on gossip and quotes by several people who made generalized, unsubstantiated statements to the media. We have serious problems in this country that we need to focus on and this is just another distraction. I don't get why this article was published at all. It is not worthy of this organization and will do nothing to make people more peaceful, kind, and less judgemental. I appreciate and recommend this website and its good works. Let's keep it that way!

by: CStat

12-12-2008 @ 10:17pm

After an endless stream of corrupt politicians we need not make such a big deal over this one guy who many suspect to have some sort of mental disorder. Also, Chris Matthews reported on a poll last night that listed states in terms of corrupt histories, and Illinois was 18th down the list. Since the author of this article states that he was only in Illinois government for 2 years of community service making him unlikely to have been dealing with people in powerful positions, I think he may be making some faulty assumptions and overstating the situation. Also, he admits getting his information after "a couple of drinks after hours in a bar near the State House", which makes me question the reliability of his sources. If I want to hear this kind of he said/she said remarks that imply all sorts of things, I will listen to Fox News. The media in general has become filled with sarcastic, hateful dialog during which they hurl all sorts of ugly accusations and name calling, and I am so tired of it. If you read over this article again, you may notice that Mr. King does not mention doing any kind of research but relied on gossip and quotes by several people who made generalized, unsubstantiated statements to the media. We have serious problems in this country that we need to focus on and this is just another distraction. I don't get why this article was published at all. It is not worthy of this organization and will do nothing to make people more peaceful, kind, and less judgemental. I appreciate and recommend this website and its good works. Let's keep it that way!

by: conradsteinhoff

12-12-2008 @ 11:09pm

I lived in Hyde Park for 25 years. I knew Leon Depres. My fond recall is of seeing him tooling around Hyde Park on his bicycle. I'm glad to hear he's still with us. I also remember our State Rep, Bob Mann. Bob said to me one time, referring to the State Legislature, "The Illinois Legislature contains some of the best minds of the 11th Century."
As to Chicago political corruption, and Hyde Park's relationship to it, King is correct. It is an island of progressive and mostly clean politics. Barack Obama is identified with Chicago politics Hyde Park-style. King is also correct that corruption, in terms of cronyism, nepotism, etc. was, and I suspect still is, endemic to Chicago politics. The odd thing is, the city works quite well. I love Chicago. At times I long to be back there.

by: conradsteinhoff

12-12-2008 @ 11:09pm

I lived in Hyde Park for 25 years. I knew Leon Depres. My fond recall is of seeing him tooling around Hyde Park on his bicycle. I'm glad to hear he's still with us. I also remember our State Rep, Bob Mann. Bob said to me one time, referring to the State Legislature, "The Illinois Legislature contains some of the best minds of the 11th Century."
As to Chicago political corruption, and Hyde Park's relationship to it, King is correct. It is an island of progressive and mostly clean politics. Barack Obama is identified with Chicago politics Hyde Park-style. King is also correct that corruption, in terms of cronyism, nepotism, etc. was, and I suspect still is, endemic to Chicago politics. The odd thing is, the city works quite well. I love Chicago. At times I long to be back there.

by: savvyguy

12-13-2008 @ 12:14am

cstat; get real and stop blaming fox for your problems in understanding. if you don't see the corruption in obama's town you are blinded by your self. the money is controlled by the machine and politics is money. obama raised nearly 1 billion. nearly half from unions. if hyde park is a haven of virtue then good! and so what. you can not clean up obama with an article like this. we need full disclosure of his fund raising. and we may see some surprises when oblanovich starts talking.

by: savvyguy

12-13-2008 @ 12:14am

cstat; get real and stop blaming fox for your problems in understanding. if you don't see the corruption in obama's town you are blinded by your self. the money is controlled by the machine and politics is money. obama raised nearly 1 billion. nearly half from unions. if hyde park is a haven of virtue then good! and so what. you can not clean up obama with an article like this. we need full disclosure of his fund raising. and we may see some surprises when oblanovich starts talking.

by: jeffp

12-13-2008 @ 12:32am

I lived in downstate Illinois (someplace other than Chicago) most of my life. The political corruption mostly comes from Chicago. Our family business tried doing business in Chicago but found it to corrupt. The corruption was usually hid in high-minded well meaning programs or projects. The projects and programs were just vehicles for kickbacks and bribes. Being from downstate, we just didn't do business this way. Money kept being poured into Chicago with little or no change except people like Tony Rezko getting very wealthy.

So when Obama or Rahm Emanuel start announcing programs and projects my first thought is "Who's getting paid?" Who is the next Tony Rezko?

by: jeffp

12-13-2008 @ 12:32am

I lived in downstate Illinois (someplace other than Chicago) most of my life. The political corruption mostly comes from Chicago. Our family business tried doing business in Chicago but found it to corrupt. The corruption was usually hid in high-minded well meaning programs or projects. The projects and programs were just vehicles for kickbacks and bribes. Being from downstate, we just didn't do business this way. Money kept being poured into Chicago with little or no change except people like Tony Rezko getting very wealthy.

So when Obama or Rahm Emanuel start announcing programs and projects my first thought is "Who's getting paid?" Who is the next Tony Rezko?

by: wayouthere

12-13-2008 @ 12:59am

I found this the other day. I'm sure its been used already to describe the state of government and the 2-old parties. "Through justice a nation is established, but many gifts tear it down." I take that to mean many bribes tear down justice and the nation follows. There's an economic element to most forms of injustice. With so many lobbyists, special interests and retired politicians coming back as lobbyists, how could there not be wide-spread bribery and law-selling? I don't know what's more unsettling: terrorism or knowing the Democrats and Republicans are still in charge.

by: wayouthere

12-13-2008 @ 12:59am

I found this the other day. I'm sure its been used already to describe the state of government and the 2-old parties. "Through justice a nation is established, but many gifts tear it down." I take that to mean many bribes tear down justice and the nation follows. There's an economic element to most forms of injustice. With so many lobbyists, special interests and retired politicians coming back as lobbyists, how could there not be wide-spread bribery and law-selling? I don't know what's more unsettling: terrorism or knowing the Democrats and Republicans are still in charge.

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 1:27am

Hey Cstat,

With that attitude, nothing in our country will ever be accomplished. Because Illinois might be historically, the 18th most corrupt state, we should stop making a big deal about corrupt politicians? What is your logic?

Nothing in King's article is he said/she said. He has stated an idea rather succinctly and tactfully. He is speaking of the people of Chicago who have experienced corruption themselves; those who have some experience in Chicago politics. He is adding to public discussion regarding government accountability.

Nothing in King's article is sarcastic or hateful; however, your response comes much closer to such an accusation. You call King's article a distraction from serious problems in this country, but it is only highlighting the serious problem of government corruption - a problem that has long existed and is rarely prosecuted. He is acknowledging this fact, and he admits that more needs to be done. Through all this, King somehow brings hope to the situation, and you call it a distraction.

This article is reflective in nature, and at no point claims to be the end of the discussion. This is not a negative, judgmental, or unkind article. It simply looks to hold government accountable - something this organization certainly stands for. A presence of non-violent protest does not mean an absence of peace.

What are you looking for? Academic research? Legal precedent? Find a dissertation on the Chicago machine or read Governor Ryan's case.

Best,

Chris

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 1:27am

Hey Cstat,

With that attitude, nothing in our country will ever be accomplished. Because Illinois might be historically, the 18th most corrupt state, we should stop making a big deal about corrupt politicians? What is your logic?

Nothing in King's article is he said/she said. He has stated an idea rather succinctly and tactfully. He is speaking of the people of Chicago who have experienced corruption themselves; those who have some experience in Chicago politics. He is adding to public discussion regarding government accountability.

Nothing in King's article is sarcastic or hateful; however, your response comes much closer to such an accusation. You call King's article a distraction from serious problems in this country, but it is only highlighting the serious problem of government corruption - a problem that has long existed and is rarely prosecuted. He is acknowledging this fact, and he admits that more needs to be done. Through all this, King somehow brings hope to the situation, and you call it a distraction.

This article is reflective in nature, and at no point claims to be the end of the discussion. This is not a negative, judgmental, or unkind article. It simply looks to hold government accountable - something this organization certainly stands for. A presence of non-violent protest does not mean an absence of peace.

What are you looking for? Academic research? Legal precedent? Find a dissertation on the Chicago machine or read Governor Ryan's case.

Best,

Chris

by: Eric77

12-13-2008 @ 1:57am

I, too, heard about the state rankings in corruption. The rankings to which you refer aren't particularly useful. The statistics rank the states by the number of public corruption convictions the federal government has won on a per-capita basis over the last ten years.

These rankings don't include state convictions. In addition, a couple corruption cases in a state like North Dakota (#1 on the list), because of its small population, could swing the data way out of proportion to the actual level of corruption. Also, as this only counts convictions, it could be that some states are just better than others of exposing corruption than others.

All in all, I don't find this ranking particularly helpful.

by: Eric77

12-13-2008 @ 1:57am

I, too, heard about the state rankings in corruption. The rankings to which you refer aren't particularly useful. The statistics rank the states by the number of public corruption convictions the federal government has won on a per-capita basis over the last ten years.

These rankings don't include state convictions. In addition, a couple corruption cases in a state like North Dakota (#1 on the list), because of its small population, could swing the data way out of proportion to the actual level of corruption. Also, as this only counts convictions, it could be that some states are just better than others of exposing corruption than others.

All in all, I don't find this ranking particularly helpful.

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 5:56am

Thanks for the info, Eric.

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 5:56am

Thanks for the info, Eric.

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 6:03am

Thanks for the response, Chris. I never meant to imply that corruption go unpunished. I am just so ready for Americans to stop arguing over who is the worst person or party and move on toward a brighter day.?

Cathy

by: CStat

12-13-2008 @ 6:03am

Thanks for the response, Chris. I never meant to imply that corruption go unpunished. I am just so ready for Americans to stop arguing over who is the worst person or party and move on toward a brighter day.?

Cathy

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 4:56pm

I'm sorry, Cathy. I came off harsh. Thanks for being a good sport. I understand your frustration completely. The truth is that both parties have skeletons, and letting them go means that they could remain forever. With all of our economic problems, it's easy for us to want to move on from the problems we already had. Unfortunately, if/when we are done with this recession, all of our old problems will still be here. I hope you have very happy holidays, and please accept my apology.

Chris

by: lucky7

12-13-2008 @ 4:56pm

I'm sorry, Cathy. I came off harsh. Thanks for being a good sport. I understand your frustration completely. The truth is that both parties have skeletons, and letting them go means that they could remain forever. With all of our economic problems, it's easy for us to want to move on from the problems we already had. Unfortunately, if/when we are done with this recession, all of our old problems will still be here. I hope you have very happy holidays, and please accept my apology.

Chris

by: erbe

12-13-2008 @ 5:33pm

For Blagojevich and his ties to the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) read the article, 'Blagojevich and Union Go Way Back" in the 12/13/08 edition of the Wall Street Journal. It will be interesting to see how this relationship worked to the benefit of both the union and Blagojevich.

by: erbe

12-13-2008 @ 5:33pm

For Blagojevich and his ties to the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) read the article, 'Blagojevich and Union Go Way Back" in the 12/13/08 edition of the Wall Street Journal. It will be interesting to see how this relationship worked to the benefit of both the union and Blagojevich.

by: letjusticerolldown

12-13-2008 @ 7:06pm

e.g. If North Dakota and Illinois both convicted one Govenor on corruption charges (along with all other states), North Dakota would rank second in the nation on per capita convictions and Illinois would rank 45th. Their per capita conviction rate would be 20 times that of Illinois.

And why would one presume a state is most corrupt becase it enforces laws against corruption???

by: letjusticerolldown

12-13-2008 @ 7:06pm

e.g. If North Dakota and Illinois both convicted one Govenor on corruption charges (along with all other states), North Dakota would rank second in the nation on per capita convictions and Illinois would rank 45th. Their per capita conviction rate would be 20 times that of Illinois.

And why would one presume a state is most corrupt becase it enforces laws against corruption???

by: Kevin Wayne

12-13-2008 @ 11:49pm

This tries to cast Obama in the best possible light given the circumstances. And I have to admit, I doubt there's muc connection between him and the Ill. Governor. But the fact is, he didn't stay on public financing, and McCain had him on one point in the debates- the subject of his independence from the leadership of his party.

Time will tell.

by: Kevin Wayne

12-13-2008 @ 11:49pm

This tries to cast Obama in the best possible light given the circumstances. And I have to admit, I doubt there's muc connection between him and the Ill. Governor. But the fact is, he didn't stay on public financing, and McCain had him on one point in the debates- the subject of his independence from the leadership of his party.

Time will tell.

by: kevin47

12-14-2008 @ 4:47am

If your knowledge of any political landscape is achieved without going to a bar, then you know nothing of that landscape. Do you think having two beers renders one deaf? In the case of Blago, the dude's on tape, is he not? No insinuations needed.

This article is spot on.

by: kevin47

12-14-2008 @ 4:47am

If your knowledge of any political landscape is achieved without going to a bar, then you know nothing of that landscape. Do you think having two beers renders one deaf? In the case of Blago, the dude's on tape, is he not? No insinuations needed.

This article is spot on.

by: CStat

12-14-2008 @ 5:05am

Happy Holidays to you too, Chris!

Cathy

by: CStat

12-14-2008 @ 5:05am

Happy Holidays to you too, Chris!

Cathy

by: littleroundtop

02-02-2009 @ 6:31pm

NMROD you are so right , Greed does not discriminate.

by: littleroundtop

02-02-2009 @ 6:31pm

NMROD you are so right , Greed does not discriminate.