Selective Memory in the Gaza Conflict

Orwell's words are as applicable today as when he wrote them:

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is no kind of outrage - torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the bombing of civilians - which does not change it colour when it is committed by our side."

Controlling your own land borders is an attempt at national security.

"But mom, HE started it!"

After a fight continues long enough, "who started it" becomes less and less important. It is Hamas' determination to continue the fight until Israel is eradicated that is the most important consideration now.

LV

The Christian Zionists seem to believe that perpetual war in the Middle East is God's will. In that sense, they are no different than Hamas (see Lord Voldemort's comment above).

"They are evil.
We are good.
Therefore, we must eradicate the demons.
And the war must continue until this is accomplished."

Didn't George W. Bush say the same thing?

Arguably, but in the context of the article, and of reality, it is a blockade. You might argue, it is security through blockade, but that is not legal.

If you are looking for an assessment of the conflict that is fair to Israel, you are looking in the wrong place. The practice of eviscerating the Zionist strawman is alive and well here.

Zionists were originally, mostly secular, and many were terrorists who committed murders against the British, the nonJewish inhabitants of Palestine and even European ambassadors. All of this does not exactly reinforce the legitimacy of the establishment of a state based on ethnic heritage and inviting all Jews in the world to come while actively driving out long established inhabitants. If this was to be a secular state it should have sought from the beginning to include all Palestinians in that state. Nevertheless the Abrahamic covenant has always been a major foundation of support for the Jewish state of Israel. What possible claim do American Jews have on any land in Israel let alone the illegal settlements in the West Bank. They were not refugees.

Israel refuses to embrace a one state solution and they refuse a 2 state solution. They have created reservations/ bantustans/refugee camps and use resistance to this clearly apartheid system as a tool to justify further seizure of land that is not theirs except by raw military aggression.

What do you suggest the Palestinians do to get a just settlement?

"The Christian Zionists seem to believe that perpetual war in the Middle East is God's will. In that sense, they are no different than Hamas (see Lord Voldemort's comment above)."

How is it avoidable, unless you actually expel the Palestinians? (Which won't happen - although such a scenario would not put the Palestinians in any worse a situation then they are in now). Israel stops bombing and gives up territory, they get bombed. They fight, they get bombed.

Don, do you actually think that the Palestinians aren't incorrigably racist and pathologically genocidal? Only a blind man would believe those two statements not to be true. But it is clear that the world is full of blind men. It is mind-boggling the grotestque moral perversion that masquerades as even-handedness.

If Palestine had Israel's weaponry, there would be no Israel now. The Israelites have no desire to exterminate the Palestinians . If they did, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left, much less so many civilian structures still standing. And how many Palestinians would not have been killed if Hamas use civilians as shields?

Unsurprisingly, I disagree with a great deal of what you've said.

But this is especially odd: tryng to "understand" the Likkud position is like trying too understand the Bush Cheney war in Iraq Likkud isn't in power. I don't think you'd stoop to saying Jews are interchangeable, but that is what this suggests.

Further, Christian support for Israel is generally based on Christian doctrines. American support for Israel is generally based on American values. You should be careful who you blame for those values, or you risk further errors more bizarre than the above.

"Don, do you actually think that the Palestinians aren't incorrigably racist and pathologically genocidal? Only a blind man would believe those two statements not to be true."

Um, did you really intend to write what you wrote here? Palestinians are human beings made in God's image, just as you and I are. Some of them are Christians, including members of the same communion I am part of. Many of the Christians have left, however, because most Palestinians can't earn a decent living in Palestine, with all the roadblocks, checkpoints and other restrictions.

To stoop to this level and make such a blanket statement is unconscionable. BrentH, who is being racist here?

You need to take that huge log out of your eye, BrentH. And put yourself in the Palestinians' shoes before you utter any more blanket condemnations.

I was making a generalization that is certianly true of the vast majority of them, as any person who has eyes to see can tell, and so my statement is factually correct. It just points out things that SoJo people don't like to deal with.

They are made in God's image, but the vast majority are Muslim, and in Satan's thrall. They freely choose to be thouroughly racist. Would it be wrong to characterize Germany in 1944 as thouroughly racist? No. The only difference between the level of hate between the two is that the Palestinians aren't white and wealthy. That makes their racism a thing to be excused.

"Many of the Christians have left, however, because most Palestinians can't earn a decent living in Palestine, with all the roadblocks, checkpoints and other restrictions."

Yeah, Don, right. That''s why they're poor. It's all the checkpoints. Without the checkpoints, they'd be prosperous, like Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Sure, it is.

"To stoop to this level and make such a blanket statement is unconscionable. BrentH, who is being racist here?"

I know SoJo considers pointing out incovienent, undeniable facts to be unconscionable. How dare I. Deal with the truth, Don. You're a moral pervert.

You need to take that huge log out of your eye, BrentH. And put yourself in the Palestinians' shoes before you utter any more blanket condemnations."

Are you excusing their behavior? Now you want me to understand and sympathize with unjustified genocidal tendencies.

I also misspelled the Party name(Likud) but the Kadima party came out of the Likud party and is not substantially different. I will correct it as the center right coalition in Israel. I certainly realize there are Israelis for a peaceful resolution and I fully support their vision and effort. I have said nothing about "all Jews" and nothing whatsoever to suggest what you say. I am speaking about history and about government policies.

"Like keeping Saddam in power. That would have been a more effective answer, wouldn't it?"

Well, since you asked, yes. There would have over 4000 Americans (sons, daughters, husbands, and wives) who would be alive along with tens of thousands of Iraquis. But Saddam might not have survived past the 1980s had it not been for the the intervention of our first cowboy president.

First off, don't think for a second that your "Jewish Christian" friends mean you know anything about Jews. Second, I don't care if you have Jewish (non-Christian) friends. I'm looking at what you actually said.

No, Kadima didn't come out of Likud, and it is not essentially the same.

If you understood the origins of the conflict you might not make such inflammatory remarks. The Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular regard Israel as a bully that basically stole that land for the sake of maintaining Western imperialism -- which is quite an issue considering that Western nations, specifically the British and French, went into the Middle East and redrew the boundaries to keep various tribes fighting each other. I understand why they do what they do, beyond justifying it.

"If you understood the origins of the conflict "

I'm not intimidated by petty patronizing. You guys demonstrate your lack of understanding here day after day.

"The Arab world in general and the Palestinians in particular regard Israel as a bully that basically stole that land for the sake of maintaining Western imperialism"

Isreal isn't a bully, though. They think so because they are moral fools. No one cared about Palestine until Jews were put there. Arabs are Muslims, Muslims hate Jews because of their religion, which is an evil religion. It's ok to say it, if you're a Christian you must believe that. There was plenty of room for Jews and Arabs to live side by side.

No rational person would believe that Israel was created to "maintain Western Imperialism", once the dust settled. No one should have believed it by the time the 1967 War started, and only a fool would believe it now.

That's just a phony narrative to excuse genocidal racism. It's obvious that it's phony, and you guys are guilty excusing what is probably the most wicked people and wannabe oppressors on the face of the earth today. It's no different than being a Nazi sympathizer.

I

BrentH -- You should know that those kind of inflammatory comments contribute nothing to the discourse here. And you simply have not addressed the history I just described.

If Palestine had Israel's weaponry it would have never been established in the first place -- it's a well-known fact that most of Israel back in the 1940s came to be as the result of Palestinians being driven away. Deal with that.

" you considered it inflammatory because you don't agree with it and for no other reason. "

It was an attempt to hide from the issues by accusing the messenger of racism.

"And no, you didn't address it, only dismissed it."

I addressed it. Israel was doing nothing to make anyone beleive they were agents of

Because they were already causing trouble. There was still plenty of land for them both to live on. It didn't justify the war to destroy them, and certianly not the war in '67 or '73, and the intifada's since then.

Palestinian is the modern word for the Bible word "Philistine." Israelites have been at war with the Palestinians/Philistines since around 1350 BC. Conflict with them is first shown in the Book of Judges in the Old Testament.

Gaza was Philistia in Bible times. In my opinion, the Israelis need to let the non-Jews in Gaza alone.

I was at Chu Lai South Vietnam in the US Army when the 1967 war took place. Jay Brick, a Jew in my company, made a big deal of it.

If you want to go back to before the nation of Israel took over the country of Canaan in the beginning, Israel at the time was a large ethnic group without a country. When the ancestors of the Israelites left Canaan originally, they were not in authority in that Country.

I just say let Israel handle its own problems. The Christians in the USA ought to stay out of it. No matter what the Christian Zionists (such as John Hagee for instance) want and how much they try, Jesus will come back when God the Father says it is time and not when Christians want it to happen. The USA helping Israel out won't speed things up either.

"I told you -- for reasons I've already mentioned the Arabs considered them interlopers from the start. "

Because they're insane.

"And besides, your "right-wing" Israelis are just as racist as you claim the Arabs are. Do you deny this?"

(Repeat Point for a mind numbed by swallowing large doses of post-modern multiculturalist deconstructionalism.)

"If Palestine had Israel's weaponry, there would be no Israel now. The Israelites have no desire to exterminate the Palestinians . If they did, there wouldn't be any Palestinians left, much less so many civilian structures still standing. And how many Palestinians would not have been killed if Hamas use civilians as shields?"

Have the Israelis made any vows to exterminate the Palestinians? Mein Kampf is popular reading in the Arab world. There is no comparable Isreali book to that. The Israeli's restrain thier force when they don't have to. The Palestinians never restrain theirs.

That the Isrealis aren't as racist is about as obvious as any fact can be.

No, why would anyone believe that?