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Is the 'Ebony Experiment' Wrong?

An article in the Chicago Tribune caught my attention this week. It's about the "Ebony Experiment," an Oak Park, Illinois, couple's controversial mission to "buy black" and spend their money exclusively with black-owned businesses for an entire year. John and Maggie Anderson's purpose is to encourage the growth of African-American business and entrepreneurship and help solve what they call "the crisis in the black community." Here's an excerpt from the article:

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"More than anything, this is a learning thing," said Maggie Anderson, who grew up in the Liberty City neighborhood of Miami and holds a law degree and an MBA from the University of Chicago. "We know it's controversial, and we knew that coming in."

But the Andersons said they also have known that a thriving black economy is fundamental to restoring impoverished African-American and other "underserved" communities, and they have discussed for years trying to find a way to address the problem.

What they came up with is provocative. One anonymous letter mailed to their home accused the Andersons of "unabashed, virulent racism." "Because of you," the writer stated, "we will totally avoid black suppliers. Because of you, we will dodge every which way to avoid hiring black employees."

Apart from that letter, a solid majority of comments they have received have been encouraging, the Andersons said, adding that most people see the endeavor as beneficial to all.

"Supporting your own isn't necessarily exclusive," said John Anderson, a financial adviser who grew up in Detroit and has a Harvard University degree in economics and an MBA from Northwestern University, "and you're not going to convince everybody of that."

The undertaking "is an academic test about how to reinvest in an underserved community" and lessen society's burden, John Anderson said. Focusing the estimated $850 billion annual black buying power on black businesses strengthens those business and creates more businesses, more jobs and stronger families, schools and neighborhoods, the Andersons and other advocates said.

In today's crippled economy, is there a place for the Kwanzaa principle of Ujamma, or cooperative economics? Furthermore, is there a legitimate place for this kind of activism in the lives of people, like many of the readers of this blog, who desire racial and social reconciliation in an already fragmented nation?

This issue elicits many questions, particularly the one alluded to above that if members of the white community promoted something as brazenly separatist and racialized as this, they would be immediately castigated as racists. And that suggestion of a double standard is understandable. Yet, whether we agree or disagree with that contention, I think it's important to acknowledge the complexity of our national history around the issues of race, slavery, segregation, and social justice. Though we've long since repudiated our nation's biggest failures and attempted to move forward on the matter of race, a lot of the residue of our failures continue to inform our personal and institutional relationships today. To ignore that fact only hinders our efforts toward true progress and reconciliation.

This commentary by blogger Fredric Mitchell presents some interesting food for thought that, at the very least, can help bring context to our thinking on topics like the Ebony Experiment.

Still, there's so much to ponder here: Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"? Is there a place for an ethnically-exclusive approach to economics in our day and age? And, if so, what does it say about our commitment to diversity, justice, and reconciliation?

portrait-edward-gilbreathEdward Gilbreath is director of editorial for Urban Ministries Inc., editor of UrbanFaith.com, and the author of Reconciliation Blues: A Black Evangelical's Inside View of White Christianity. He blogs at Reconciliation Blog.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: squeaky

03-12-2009 @ 11:33pm

Did Sojo say anything about the pastor who was killed by his wife last year?

by: Kendra4832

04-16-2010 @ 12:54am

"Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"? "

Obama's notion is just that: a notion (and myth) to help him get elected. Since when did the United States become "post-racial". I'm confused as to the blatant tossing about of this term.

Are we supposed to ignorantly convince ourselves that racism no longer exists in the US because he was elected?? I don't get how anyone of good sense and basic intelligence could draw this conclusion.

Our communities are in decline. We NEED to support our own businesses to create jobs for OUR PEOPLE. Our ancestors understood this and did this (Maggie Lena Walker; the founders of Carver Savings Bank; the list goes on). Our ancestors created businesses that provided our people and communities with sources of empowerment such as scholarships, economic empowerment, and employment. Why aren't we doing the same?? We've completely dropped the ball and stand by and wonder why our communities are in decline.

It's time to stop begging the government and each administration to do something for us. LET'S DO IT OURSELVES.

Implying that it is somehow "wrong" to support your own businesses - ironically, in light of every other group of people supporting their own businesses - is setting us up for failure. While everyone else is supporting their own people, and businesses, we're sitting back twiddling our thumbs questioning whether or not we should continue the very tradition that empowered our elders/ancestors.

Today's generation of African-Americans have failed their children in passing down values that empower us. It's disgusting and shameful.

by: turkeybreath

05-25-2009 @ 2:22pm

Racist
Racist
Racist
I am going to start the Lily White Experiment. I expect others will follow my example too. But I won't because I am not a RACIST. I buy from the best, whether they are white, black, red, green or orange. RACE has NOTHING to do with anything. These people need to get their heads out of their butts and look around. We are all Americans. Not black people or white people. Geez. Give me a BREAK.

by: nuclearferret

03-10-2009 @ 6:12pm

""Supporting your own isn't necessarily exclusive and you're not going to convince everybody of that.,"

Yes, by definition, you are excluding those who are not "your own." If I decide my own are Irish and buy only from Irish-owned businesses, I am excluding non-Irish. You're not going to convince people, because it isn't true.

As for the project, I think it is fine. The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition. If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American. He wins because he was both clearly the better candidate of the two, and because the GOP had no track record to use for credibility.

by: kevin47

03-10-2009 @ 9:37pm

The purpose of the project isn't exclusion, nor is it an effort to deprive white business owners of their rights under the law. I think it's a good idea.

"This issue elicits many questions, particularly the one alluded to above that if members of the white community promoted something as brazenly separatist and racialized as this, they would be immediately castigated as racists."

There would be no need for something so brazen, as white consumers regularly engage in this sort of selectivity without any conscious effort. The only purpose for drawing attention to this behavior would be to express racist sentiment.

"Still, there's so much to ponder here: Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"?"

Who cares? Just because our president has a notion doesn't make it wrong to disregard that notion.

by: SisterMarie

03-10-2009 @ 11:56pm

I think that there is some merit in purchasing goods and services as close as possible to your local community. This may or may not translate into favoring one's own ethnic group, but from a standpoint of simple nutrition and accountability, buying things from your local economy certainly makes sense.

When Marco Polo returned from his trip with all of those spices, he set into motion a system with both good and bad outcomes. The good outcomes are those in which we obtain things that will not grow in our local area. The bad results are when we knowingly embrace a system that abuses its workers in poor working and living conditions.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 12:05am

Off topic, but I wanted to post this somewhere. Several months ago, a Sojo blogger posted this:

"While many evangelicals celebrated Cassie Bernall and Rachel Scott as martyrs who died for their Christian convictions at Columbine High School, I wonder if we will extend the same heroism to the victims in Tennessee?"

This question was obviously loaded with assumptions about evangelicals. And yet, I have heard not one peep here about the slaying of pastor Fred Winters, or the heroism of the congregation members who were apparently injured while prevented the crazed gunman from killing himself.

Don't get me wrong, myriad justifications for flying in airplanes from an environmental perspective is compelling and all, but isn't there at least an intern who can monitor the goose/gander quotient here?

by: letjusticerolldown

03-11-2009 @ 2:19am

We each employ multiple rationales for choosing where to carry our business, with whom we will share our church pew with, who we will give a ride to, who we will live to, etc. etc. I could justify a year of buying solely from black-owned businesses just to pay attention how the 'race factor' enters my decision making.

I can think of a hundred reasons to support the project described. If it was viewed as a strategy to punish or harm other parties I would not back it; but I don't see an ounce of that.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 3:14am

I think the idea that "majority" businesses will survive; relatively few of them have a minority clientele as it is unless they're located in black neighborhoods.

The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition.

Outright denial. Remember that Obama could never have been elected without a large number of whites, most notably in their 20s and 30s, not only voting but working for him -- he's the first candidate in their lifetimes that really grabbed them. And besides, it's not simply a failed GOP administration -- it's a failure of conservative ideology that still can't admit that.

If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American.

What about 2000 Bush?

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2009 @ 3:39am

And the political perspective of a pastor being murdered would be...? Apples and apples would be; if this pastor was slain by a liberal who was incensed and worked into a furor over some personal losses aggravated by listening to a rant about fundamentalists corrupting the country. Granted, this is a tragedy, especially for his young family. We grieve over their loss. His murder should not be fodder for the political grist mill, however.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 1:33pm

I'm white, and I don't choose whom I do business with based on the color of the owner's skin. Most of the time I have no idea who the owner is, and I never think about who the owner is unless somehow I've learned this through the media or personal contact. I buy from businesses that have good prices and good service. In fact, I cannot name a black-owned business in my community, and I know they certainly exist. I think I might have eaten at a black-owned chain restaurant recently, but I'm not sure. It's just not something I think about.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 2:07pm

It's not just about skin color -- it's about the history of its ramifications, with people not being able to get jobs or secure capital to build their own businesses to employ people in their neighborhoods because of it. Conservatives complain about folks being on welfare; that can change only when people, especially men, can make enough money to support their families.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:08pm

I don't find the idea of black people "buying black" offensive, assuming that those black owned businesses are within a particular geographical community.

I think people should go out of their way to support retailers and businesses within their own community. I think people should discriminate in favor of locally-owned businesses. If the end result is that black people buy from local black businesses, that's a good thing. If black people were buying from black businesses from far away rather than a locally owned white/Asian/Hispanic business, then that's another issue. I'd question their priorities in that case.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:11pm

I'm confused Kevin. What's the correlation between the Tennessee case and Winters?

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 3:27pm

What was the connection between the Columbine murders and the Tennessee shooting?

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 3:37pm

I agree with all that. I was just sharing.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 4:02pm

That said, I think there needs to be some intentionality. My church is located in a less-than-desirable neighborhood, and if I happen to be over there and need something I will buy it there rather than over where I live. It's a conscious decision I made some time ago to give folks in that area a chance to change the neighborhood rather than simply complain about it. Because so many people in my church feel the same way, it's beginning to thrive economically and new businesses have actually opened up over the past couple of years; in fact, it was honored by the neighborhood business association.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 4:13pm

That's great! I don't have that opportunity where I live and worship, but I can make some choices between local owner/operators and chains. I guess what my point is - if I indeed have one - is that I'm not sure how I can find that information about the ethnicity of a business owner. We don't have "black neighborhoods" here anymore. Businesses of any kind fled the less prosperous neighborhoods long ago for the malls and retail strips. We have a pretty good downtown area with lots of locally owned businesses, but I don't know where to get information on minority owned businesses. I know it sounds like I'm pleading ignorance here, but on the other hand, at least in my area, I'm not really sure if the kind of positive impact you are seeing can be replicated here.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 5:44pm

I have no idea.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:04pm

The Tennessee murders took place at a Unitarian church by someone who had been listening to right-wing talk-radio and scapegoated "liberals." The point, which Pastor Jeff was getting at, is that evangelicals were silent about that one.

That said, as I write we have no information about why the pastor in Illinois was shot, so I don't understand why you would hijack the thread to make a point.

by: turkeybreath

05-25-2009 @ 12:22pm

Racist
Racist
Racist
I am going to start the Lily White Experiment. I expect others will follow my example too. But I won't because I am not a RACIST. I buy from the best, whether they are white, black, red, green or orange. RACE has NOTHING to do with anything. These people need to get their heads out of their butts and look around. We are all Americans. Not black people or white people. Geez. Give me a BREAK.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 6:40pm

And my point is that Sojo was silent about this one.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:51pm

Your point is highly irrelevant. Sojo is not a hard-news agency and would not have the resources to chase down such a story that, as I mentioned, does not have a determined context.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:18pm

They didn't chase down any of the previous stories before they made assertions about how other Christians perceived church violence.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 7:27pm

You know full well that's a lie.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:33pm

I quoted them verbatim.

by: nuclearferret

03-10-2009 @ 6:12pm

""Supporting your own isn't necessarily exclusive and you're not going to convince everybody of that.,"

Yes, by definition, you are excluding those who are not "your own." If I decide my own are Irish and buy only from Irish-owned businesses, I am excluding non-Irish. You're not going to convince people, because it isn't true.

As for the project, I think it is fine. The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition. If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American. He wins because he was both clearly the better candidate of the two, and because the GOP had no track record to use for credibility.

by: BlueDeacon

03-12-2009 @ 12:48am

Doesn't matter. The story was already out there and heavily reported -- it was easy to make judgments about their ramifications. On the other hand, you have only a dead pastor and nothing yet to follow up.

by: kevin47

03-10-2009 @ 9:37pm

The purpose of the project isn't exclusion, nor is it an effort to deprive white business owners of their rights under the law. I think it's a good idea.

"This issue elicits many questions, particularly the one alluded to above that if members of the white community promoted something as brazenly separatist and racialized as this, they would be immediately castigated as racists."

There would be no need for something so brazen, as white consumers regularly engage in this sort of selectivity without any conscious effort. The only purpose for drawing attention to this behavior would be to express racist sentiment.

"Still, there's so much to ponder here: Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"?"

Who cares? Just because our president has a notion doesn't make it wrong to disregard that notion.

by: SisterMarie

03-10-2009 @ 11:56pm

I think that there is some merit in purchasing goods and services as close as possible to your local community. This may or may not translate into favoring one's own ethnic group, but from a standpoint of simple nutrition and accountability, buying things from your local economy certainly makes sense.

When Marco Polo returned from his trip with all of those spices, he set into motion a system with both good and bad outcomes. The good outcomes are those in which we obtain things that will not grow in our local area. The bad results are when we knowingly embrace a system that abuses its workers in poor working and living conditions.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 12:05am

Off topic, but I wanted to post this somewhere. Several months ago, a Sojo blogger posted this:

"While many evangelicals celebrated Cassie Bernall and Rachel Scott as martyrs who died for their Christian convictions at Columbine High School, I wonder if we will extend the same heroism to the victims in Tennessee?"

This question was obviously loaded with assumptions about evangelicals. And yet, I have heard not one peep here about the slaying of pastor Fred Winters, or the heroism of the congregation members who were apparently injured while prevented the crazed gunman from killing himself.

Don't get me wrong, myriad justifications for flying in airplanes from an environmental perspective is compelling and all, but isn't there at least an intern who can monitor the goose/gander quotient here?

by: letjusticerolldown

03-11-2009 @ 2:19am

We each employ multiple rationales for choosing where to carry our business, with whom we will share our church pew with, who we will give a ride to, who we will live to, etc. etc. I could justify a year of buying solely from black-owned businesses just to pay attention how the 'race factor' enters my decision making.

I can think of a hundred reasons to support the project described. If it was viewed as a strategy to punish or harm other parties I would not back it; but I don't see an ounce of that.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 3:14am

I think the idea that "majority" businesses will survive; relatively few of them have a minority clientele as it is unless they're located in black neighborhoods.

The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition.

Outright denial. Remember that Obama could never have been elected without a large number of whites, most notably in their 20s and 30s, not only voting but working for him -- he's the first candidate in their lifetimes that really grabbed them. And besides, it's not simply a failed GOP administration -- it's a failure of conservative ideology that still can't admit that.

If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American.

What about 2000 Bush?

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2009 @ 3:39am

And the political perspective of a pastor being murdered would be...? Apples and apples would be; if this pastor was slain by a liberal who was incensed and worked into a furor over some personal losses aggravated by listening to a rant about fundamentalists corrupting the country. Granted, this is a tragedy, especially for his young family. We grieve over their loss. His murder should not be fodder for the political grist mill, however.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 1:33pm

I'm white, and I don't choose whom I do business with based on the color of the owner's skin. Most of the time I have no idea who the owner is, and I never think about who the owner is unless somehow I've learned this through the media or personal contact. I buy from businesses that have good prices and good service. In fact, I cannot name a black-owned business in my community, and I know they certainly exist. I think I might have eaten at a black-owned chain restaurant recently, but I'm not sure. It's just not something I think about.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 2:07pm

It's not just about skin color -- it's about the history of its ramifications, with people not being able to get jobs or secure capital to build their own businesses to employ people in their neighborhoods because of it. Conservatives complain about folks being on welfare; that can change only when people, especially men, can make enough money to support their families.

by: turkeybreath

05-25-2009 @ 2:22pm

Racist
Racist
Racist
I am going to start the Lily White Experiment. I expect others will follow my example too. But I won't because I am not a RACIST. I buy from the best, whether they are white, black, red, green or orange. RACE has NOTHING to do with anything. These people need to get their heads out of their butts and look around. We are all Americans. Not black people or white people. Geez. Give me a BREAK.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:08pm

I don't find the idea of black people "buying black" offensive, assuming that those black owned businesses are within a particular geographical community.

I think people should go out of their way to support retailers and businesses within their own community. I think people should discriminate in favor of locally-owned businesses. If the end result is that black people buy from local black businesses, that's a good thing. If black people were buying from black businesses from far away rather than a locally owned white/Asian/Hispanic business, then that's another issue. I'd question their priorities in that case.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:11pm

I'm confused Kevin. What's the correlation between the Tennessee case and Winters?

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 3:27pm

What was the connection between the Columbine murders and the Tennessee shooting?

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 3:37pm

I agree with all that. I was just sharing.

by: squeaky

03-12-2009 @ 11:33pm

Did Sojo say anything about the pastor who was killed by his wife last year?

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 4:02pm

That said, I think there needs to be some intentionality. My church is located in a less-than-desirable neighborhood, and if I happen to be over there and need something I will buy it there rather than over where I live. It's a conscious decision I made some time ago to give folks in that area a chance to change the neighborhood rather than simply complain about it. Because so many people in my church feel the same way, it's beginning to thrive economically and new businesses have actually opened up over the past couple of years; in fact, it was honored by the neighborhood business association.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 4:13pm

That's great! I don't have that opportunity where I live and worship, but I can make some choices between local owner/operators and chains. I guess what my point is - if I indeed have one - is that I'm not sure how I can find that information about the ethnicity of a business owner. We don't have "black neighborhoods" here anymore. Businesses of any kind fled the less prosperous neighborhoods long ago for the malls and retail strips. We have a pretty good downtown area with lots of locally owned businesses, but I don't know where to get information on minority owned businesses. I know it sounds like I'm pleading ignorance here, but on the other hand, at least in my area, I'm not really sure if the kind of positive impact you are seeing can be replicated here.

by: Kendra4832

04-16-2010 @ 12:54am

"Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"? "

Obama's notion is just that: a notion (and myth) to help him get elected. Since when did the United States become "post-racial". I'm confused as to the blatant tossing about of this term.

Are we supposed to ignorantly convince ourselves that racism no longer exists in the US because he was elected?? I don't get how anyone of good sense and basic intelligence could draw this conclusion.

Our communities are in decline. We NEED to support our own businesses to create jobs for OUR PEOPLE. Our ancestors understood this and did this (Maggie Lena Walker; the founders of Carver Savings Bank; the list goes on). Our ancestors created businesses that provided our people and communities with sources of empowerment such as scholarships, economic empowerment, and employment. Why aren't we doing the same?? We've completely dropped the ball and stand by and wonder why our communities are in decline.

It's time to stop begging the government and each administration to do something for us. LET'S DO IT OURSELVES.

Implying that it is somehow "wrong" to support your own businesses - ironically, in light of every other group of people supporting their own businesses - is setting us up for failure. While everyone else is supporting their own people, and businesses, we're sitting back twiddling our thumbs questioning whether or not we should continue the very tradition that empowered our elders/ancestors.

Today's generation of African-Americans have failed their children in passing down values that empower us. It's disgusting and shameful.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 5:44pm

I have no idea.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:04pm

The Tennessee murders took place at a Unitarian church by someone who had been listening to right-wing talk-radio and scapegoated "liberals." The point, which Pastor Jeff was getting at, is that evangelicals were silent about that one.

That said, as I write we have no information about why the pastor in Illinois was shot, so I don't understand why you would hijack the thread to make a point.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 6:40pm

And my point is that Sojo was silent about this one.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:51pm

Your point is highly irrelevant. Sojo is not a hard-news agency and would not have the resources to chase down such a story that, as I mentioned, does not have a determined context.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:18pm

They didn't chase down any of the previous stories before they made assertions about how other Christians perceived church violence.

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by: nuclearferret

03-10-2009 @ 6:12pm

""Supporting your own isn't necessarily exclusive and you're not going to convince everybody of that.,"

Yes, by definition, you are excluding those who are not "your own." If I decide my own are Irish and buy only from Irish-owned businesses, I am excluding non-Irish. You're not going to convince people, because it isn't true.

As for the project, I think it is fine. The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition. If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American. He wins because he was both clearly the better candidate of the two, and because the GOP had no track record to use for credibility.

by: nuclearferret

03-10-2009 @ 6:12pm

""Supporting your own isn't necessarily exclusive and you're not going to convince everybody of that.,"

Yes, by definition, you are excluding those who are not "your own." If I decide my own are Irish and buy only from Irish-owned businesses, I am excluding non-Irish. You're not going to convince people, because it isn't true.

As for the project, I think it is fine. The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition. If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American. He wins because he was both clearly the better candidate of the two, and because the GOP had no track record to use for credibility.

by: kevin47

03-10-2009 @ 9:37pm

The purpose of the project isn't exclusion, nor is it an effort to deprive white business owners of their rights under the law. I think it's a good idea.

"This issue elicits many questions, particularly the one alluded to above that if members of the white community promoted something as brazenly separatist and racialized as this, they would be immediately castigated as racists."

There would be no need for something so brazen, as white consumers regularly engage in this sort of selectivity without any conscious effort. The only purpose for drawing attention to this behavior would be to express racist sentiment.

"Still, there's so much to ponder here: Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"?"

Who cares? Just because our president has a notion doesn't make it wrong to disregard that notion.

by: kevin47

03-10-2009 @ 9:37pm

The purpose of the project isn't exclusion, nor is it an effort to deprive white business owners of their rights under the law. I think it's a good idea.

"This issue elicits many questions, particularly the one alluded to above that if members of the white community promoted something as brazenly separatist and racialized as this, they would be immediately castigated as racists."

There would be no need for something so brazen, as white consumers regularly engage in this sort of selectivity without any conscious effort. The only purpose for drawing attention to this behavior would be to express racist sentiment.

"Still, there's so much to ponder here: Isn't this Ebony Experiment inconsistent with the Obamaesque notion of a "post-racial America"?"

Who cares? Just because our president has a notion doesn't make it wrong to disregard that notion.

by: SisterMarie

03-10-2009 @ 11:56pm

I think that there is some merit in purchasing goods and services as close as possible to your local community. This may or may not translate into favoring one's own ethnic group, but from a standpoint of simple nutrition and accountability, buying things from your local economy certainly makes sense.

When Marco Polo returned from his trip with all of those spices, he set into motion a system with both good and bad outcomes. The good outcomes are those in which we obtain things that will not grow in our local area. The bad results are when we knowingly embrace a system that abuses its workers in poor working and living conditions.

by: SisterMarie

03-10-2009 @ 11:56pm

I think that there is some merit in purchasing goods and services as close as possible to your local community. This may or may not translate into favoring one's own ethnic group, but from a standpoint of simple nutrition and accountability, buying things from your local economy certainly makes sense.

When Marco Polo returned from his trip with all of those spices, he set into motion a system with both good and bad outcomes. The good outcomes are those in which we obtain things that will not grow in our local area. The bad results are when we knowingly embrace a system that abuses its workers in poor working and living conditions.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 12:05am

Off topic, but I wanted to post this somewhere. Several months ago, a Sojo blogger posted this:

"While many evangelicals celebrated Cassie Bernall and Rachel Scott as martyrs who died for their Christian convictions at Columbine High School, I wonder if we will extend the same heroism to the victims in Tennessee?"

This question was obviously loaded with assumptions about evangelicals. And yet, I have heard not one peep here about the slaying of pastor Fred Winters, or the heroism of the congregation members who were apparently injured while prevented the crazed gunman from killing himself.

Don't get me wrong, myriad justifications for flying in airplanes from an environmental perspective is compelling and all, but isn't there at least an intern who can monitor the goose/gander quotient here?

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 12:05am

Off topic, but I wanted to post this somewhere. Several months ago, a Sojo blogger posted this:

"While many evangelicals celebrated Cassie Bernall and Rachel Scott as martyrs who died for their Christian convictions at Columbine High School, I wonder if we will extend the same heroism to the victims in Tennessee?"

This question was obviously loaded with assumptions about evangelicals. And yet, I have heard not one peep here about the slaying of pastor Fred Winters, or the heroism of the congregation members who were apparently injured while prevented the crazed gunman from killing himself.

Don't get me wrong, myriad justifications for flying in airplanes from an environmental perspective is compelling and all, but isn't there at least an intern who can monitor the goose/gander quotient here?

by: letjusticerolldown

03-11-2009 @ 2:19am

We each employ multiple rationales for choosing where to carry our business, with whom we will share our church pew with, who we will give a ride to, who we will live to, etc. etc. I could justify a year of buying solely from black-owned businesses just to pay attention how the 'race factor' enters my decision making.

I can think of a hundred reasons to support the project described. If it was viewed as a strategy to punish or harm other parties I would not back it; but I don't see an ounce of that.

by: letjusticerolldown

03-11-2009 @ 2:19am

We each employ multiple rationales for choosing where to carry our business, with whom we will share our church pew with, who we will give a ride to, who we will live to, etc. etc. I could justify a year of buying solely from black-owned businesses just to pay attention how the 'race factor' enters my decision making.

I can think of a hundred reasons to support the project described. If it was viewed as a strategy to punish or harm other parties I would not back it; but I don't see an ounce of that.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 3:14am

I think the idea that "majority" businesses will survive; relatively few of them have a minority clientele as it is unless they're located in black neighborhoods.

The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition.

Outright denial. Remember that Obama could never have been elected without a large number of whites, most notably in their 20s and 30s, not only voting but working for him -- he's the first candidate in their lifetimes that really grabbed them. And besides, it's not simply a failed GOP administration -- it's a failure of conservative ideology that still can't admit that.

If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American.

What about 2000 Bush?

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 3:14am

I think the idea that "majority" businesses will survive; relatively few of them have a minority clientele as it is unless they're located in black neighborhoods.

The mythology of a post-racial, diverse and reconciling society is what fails. The election of President Obama does not reflect progress towards this goal; it reflects a failed GOP Administration, and an awful candidate from the GOP as opposition.

Outright denial. Remember that Obama could never have been elected without a large number of whites, most notably in their 20s and 30s, not only voting but working for him -- he's the first candidate in their lifetimes that really grabbed them. And besides, it's not simply a failed GOP administration -- it's a failure of conservative ideology that still can't admit that.

If the 2008 Obama runs against 2004 Bush, he loses, and not because he was African-American.

What about 2000 Bush?

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2009 @ 3:39am

And the political perspective of a pastor being murdered would be...? Apples and apples would be; if this pastor was slain by a liberal who was incensed and worked into a furor over some personal losses aggravated by listening to a rant about fundamentalists corrupting the country. Granted, this is a tragedy, especially for his young family. We grieve over their loss. His murder should not be fodder for the political grist mill, however.

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2009 @ 3:39am

And the political perspective of a pastor being murdered would be...? Apples and apples would be; if this pastor was slain by a liberal who was incensed and worked into a furor over some personal losses aggravated by listening to a rant about fundamentalists corrupting the country. Granted, this is a tragedy, especially for his young family. We grieve over their loss. His murder should not be fodder for the political grist mill, however.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 1:33pm

I'm white, and I don't choose whom I do business with based on the color of the owner's skin. Most of the time I have no idea who the owner is, and I never think about who the owner is unless somehow I've learned this through the media or personal contact. I buy from businesses that have good prices and good service. In fact, I cannot name a black-owned business in my community, and I know they certainly exist. I think I might have eaten at a black-owned chain restaurant recently, but I'm not sure. It's just not something I think about.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 1:33pm

I'm white, and I don't choose whom I do business with based on the color of the owner's skin. Most of the time I have no idea who the owner is, and I never think about who the owner is unless somehow I've learned this through the media or personal contact. I buy from businesses that have good prices and good service. In fact, I cannot name a black-owned business in my community, and I know they certainly exist. I think I might have eaten at a black-owned chain restaurant recently, but I'm not sure. It's just not something I think about.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 2:07pm

It's not just about skin color -- it's about the history of its ramifications, with people not being able to get jobs or secure capital to build their own businesses to employ people in their neighborhoods because of it. Conservatives complain about folks being on welfare; that can change only when people, especially men, can make enough money to support their families.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 2:07pm

It's not just about skin color -- it's about the history of its ramifications, with people not being able to get jobs or secure capital to build their own businesses to employ people in their neighborhoods because of it. Conservatives complain about folks being on welfare; that can change only when people, especially men, can make enough money to support their families.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:08pm

I don't find the idea of black people "buying black" offensive, assuming that those black owned businesses are within a particular geographical community.

I think people should go out of their way to support retailers and businesses within their own community. I think people should discriminate in favor of locally-owned businesses. If the end result is that black people buy from local black businesses, that's a good thing. If black people were buying from black businesses from far away rather than a locally owned white/Asian/Hispanic business, then that's another issue. I'd question their priorities in that case.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:08pm

I don't find the idea of black people "buying black" offensive, assuming that those black owned businesses are within a particular geographical community.

I think people should go out of their way to support retailers and businesses within their own community. I think people should discriminate in favor of locally-owned businesses. If the end result is that black people buy from local black businesses, that's a good thing. If black people were buying from black businesses from far away rather than a locally owned white/Asian/Hispanic business, then that's another issue. I'd question their priorities in that case.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:11pm

I'm confused Kevin. What's the correlation between the Tennessee case and Winters?

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 3:11pm

I'm confused Kevin. What's the correlation between the Tennessee case and Winters?

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 3:27pm

What was the connection between the Columbine murders and the Tennessee shooting?

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 3:27pm

What was the connection between the Columbine murders and the Tennessee shooting?

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 3:37pm

I agree with all that. I was just sharing.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 3:37pm

I agree with all that. I was just sharing.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 4:02pm

That said, I think there needs to be some intentionality. My church is located in a less-than-desirable neighborhood, and if I happen to be over there and need something I will buy it there rather than over where I live. It's a conscious decision I made some time ago to give folks in that area a chance to change the neighborhood rather than simply complain about it. Because so many people in my church feel the same way, it's beginning to thrive economically and new businesses have actually opened up over the past couple of years; in fact, it was honored by the neighborhood business association.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 4:02pm

That said, I think there needs to be some intentionality. My church is located in a less-than-desirable neighborhood, and if I happen to be over there and need something I will buy it there rather than over where I live. It's a conscious decision I made some time ago to give folks in that area a chance to change the neighborhood rather than simply complain about it. Because so many people in my church feel the same way, it's beginning to thrive economically and new businesses have actually opened up over the past couple of years; in fact, it was honored by the neighborhood business association.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 4:13pm

That's great! I don't have that opportunity where I live and worship, but I can make some choices between local owner/operators and chains. I guess what my point is - if I indeed have one - is that I'm not sure how I can find that information about the ethnicity of a business owner. We don't have "black neighborhoods" here anymore. Businesses of any kind fled the less prosperous neighborhoods long ago for the malls and retail strips. We have a pretty good downtown area with lots of locally owned businesses, but I don't know where to get information on minority owned businesses. I know it sounds like I'm pleading ignorance here, but on the other hand, at least in my area, I'm not really sure if the kind of positive impact you are seeing can be replicated here.

by: tmccool

03-11-2009 @ 4:13pm

That's great! I don't have that opportunity where I live and worship, but I can make some choices between local owner/operators and chains. I guess what my point is - if I indeed have one - is that I'm not sure how I can find that information about the ethnicity of a business owner. We don't have "black neighborhoods" here anymore. Businesses of any kind fled the less prosperous neighborhoods long ago for the malls and retail strips. We have a pretty good downtown area with lots of locally owned businesses, but I don't know where to get information on minority owned businesses. I know it sounds like I'm pleading ignorance here, but on the other hand, at least in my area, I'm not really sure if the kind of positive impact you are seeing can be replicated here.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 5:44pm

I have no idea.

by: Eric77

03-11-2009 @ 5:44pm

I have no idea.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:04pm

The Tennessee murders took place at a Unitarian church by someone who had been listening to right-wing talk-radio and scapegoated "liberals." The point, which Pastor Jeff was getting at, is that evangelicals were silent about that one.

That said, as I write we have no information about why the pastor in Illinois was shot, so I don't understand why you would hijack the thread to make a point.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:04pm

The Tennessee murders took place at a Unitarian church by someone who had been listening to right-wing talk-radio and scapegoated "liberals." The point, which Pastor Jeff was getting at, is that evangelicals were silent about that one.

That said, as I write we have no information about why the pastor in Illinois was shot, so I don't understand why you would hijack the thread to make a point.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 6:40pm

And my point is that Sojo was silent about this one.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 6:40pm

And my point is that Sojo was silent about this one.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:51pm

Your point is highly irrelevant. Sojo is not a hard-news agency and would not have the resources to chase down such a story that, as I mentioned, does not have a determined context.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 6:51pm

Your point is highly irrelevant. Sojo is not a hard-news agency and would not have the resources to chase down such a story that, as I mentioned, does not have a determined context.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:18pm

They didn't chase down any of the previous stories before they made assertions about how other Christians perceived church violence.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:18pm

They didn't chase down any of the previous stories before they made assertions about how other Christians perceived church violence.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 7:27pm

You know full well that's a lie.

by: BlueDeacon

03-11-2009 @ 7:27pm

You know full well that's a lie.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:33pm

I quoted them verbatim.

by: kevin47

03-11-2009 @ 7:33pm

I quoted them verbatim.

by: BlueDeacon

03-12-2009 @ 12:48am

Doesn't matter. The story was already out there and heavily reported -- it was easy to make judgments about their ramifications. On the other hand, you have only a dead pastor and nothing yet to follow up.

by: BlueDeacon

03-12-2009 @ 12:48am

Doesn't matter. The story was already out there and heavily reported -- it was easy to make judgments about their ramifications. On the other hand, you have only a dead pastor and nothing yet to follow up.

by: squeaky

03-12-2009 @ 11:33pm

Did Sojo say anything about the pastor who was killed by his wife last year?

by: squeaky

03-12-2009 @ 11:33pm

Did Sojo say anything about the pastor who was killed by his wife last year?

by: turkeybreath

05-25-2009 @ 12:22pm

Racist
Racist
Racist
I am going to start the Lily White Experiment. I expect others will follow my example too. But I won't because I am not a RACIST. I buy from the best, whether they are white, black, red, green or orange. RACE has NOTHING to do with anything. These people need to get their heads out of their butts and look around. We are all Americans. Not black people or white people. Geez. Give me a BREAK.

by: turkeybreath

05-25-2009 @ 12:22pm

Racist
Racist
Racist
I am going to start the Lily White Experiment. I expect others will follow my example too. But I won't because I am not a RACIST. I buy from the best, whether they are white, black, red, green or orange. RACE has NOTHING to do with anything. These people need to get their heads out of their butts and look around. We are all Americans. Not black people or white people. Geez. Give me a BREAK.