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The Perils of Well-Meaning But Short-Sighted Generosity

Rick Warren, the most prominent evangelical pastor of our day, has established a highly successful program arranging teams from his church to help specific villages in Africa. Given the effectiveness of his organizational skills and the extensive direct involvement that his people have with African villagers, I have no doubt that these teams carry out their aid efforts with high levels of accountability.

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What concerns me, however, is that many tens of thousands of smaller churches are following his example and circumventing established missionary organizations, and directly providing financial support for pastors and churches in Third World countries, and are not able to provide the same kind of oversight. Leaders of both Compassion International and World Vision, two of the most effective Christian relief organizations, have told me an array of horror stories of how well-intentioned giving often results in church leaders in poor countries using the money in ways that are far removed from the intentions of the givers.

If we weren't going through an economic meltdown, I wouldn't be writing this article. I would be saying to myself that if wasting money on phony foreign missionary enterprises makes some Americans feel good, what's the harm? After all, it might give a lot of gratification to a church group that likes to think that it's living out those 2,000 biblical imperatives that require Christians to care for the poor. Besides, I could tell myself, youth groups that go on those "short-term" mission trips (better called "religious tourism") usually have their lives impacted in all kinds of positive ways. Visiting needy children in Third World countries often drives such youthful Americans into re-examining their own lives and recognizing how many dollars they waste on stuff that they don't need. Their confrontation with impoverished children who, in spite of their privations, radiate an effusive joy that contrasts with the morose dispositions of so many of their high school peers often gets them to question the source of this joy.

Given these realities, I thought it best to keep my mouth shut about how over the years I've been conned several times. It took a long time and a lot of safeguards to make sure that the dollars that I get people to give to support missionary projects do the good they are intended to do. We hate to impose the vigorous controls that we normally require when we dish out money. There's the matter of guilt. Comparatively, we Americans have so much while these needy people have so little. Too quickly we ask, "What can I do to help?" And far too often, the answer leads to money being given without the proper precautions.

What makes me most sad is that I am convinced that I helped corrupt some good church leaders in Haiti. I know of two men who were doing good things for their people until I got involved and started to provide funding for the care of some orphans who lived in their town. These men were poor and they had poor relatives. The money ended up being used to hire relatives for non-existent jobs or jobs that were almost non-existent. For instance, one cousin was paid a standard Haitian salary to spend a half-hour collecting the mail from the post office each day. I know of another man who was paid a full salary to wash the pastor's car whenever a washing might be needed. These pastors were poor men from poor families; and when I gave them money, they felt that their first obligation was to take care of their blood relatives.

If a church wants to help needy people in a country like Haiti, the best thing to do is to sponsor children through some well-established organization such as Compassion International. This particular ministry has field representatives who provide checks and controls on finances and makes sure that the money you give ends up where it should.

Tony Campolo is founder of the Evangelical Association for the Promotion of Education (EAPE) and professor emeritus of sociology at Eastern University.

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by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 5:38pm

Thank you, Tony. You reminded me why justice -- the promotion of structural change to encourage folks actually to get out of poverty -- is more important and long-lasting than mere charity.

by: PDBurns

03-13-2009 @ 5:52pm

Thanks for this message. In my mind, it could not be said enough. This principle that you have outlined could also apply domestically. Often churches "re-invent the wheel" when starting a program or ministry. Often times the best way is to simply partner with an existing ministry that has shown to be successful.

by: Eric77

03-13-2009 @ 6:01pm

I think the distinction between charity and justice is an important one and it's good to remember. But I would say that justice is only more important in some instances. In most of the instances that Tony mentions, there is very little I can do to promote justice for poor people in third world countries. I can do a lot to help them meet their daily needs through charity though. However, in my own community, there is tremendous work I can do to promote justice. What I'm saying is, that in the eyes of an American Christian, whether justice or charity can be pursued depends on the situation and simply geography. Showing charity towards people in the third world shouldn't be discouraged because it doesn't result in long-lasting change. Jesus worked for both and didn't rank them in order of importance.

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 6:16pm

I agree, Tony. But why don't you scrutinize government waste this closely?

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 6:48pm

Well, when it comes to justice, I would think that working against the
political/social structure that keeps them poor is at least some help.
Withdrawing economic aid, whether directly or through trade (not buying goods)
might be one way. And sometimes charity doesn't work either because, as Tony
mentioned, often the money intended for the poor lines the pockets of someone
who's just plain greedy. That's why he supports groups whose activities he
can monitor.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 7:17pm

You won't be saying that when it benefits you (and it does, more than you realize).

by: Susan B Anthony Coin

03-06-2011 @ 8:17am

Significantly, the Eisenhower dollar was the last mintage to have base metal content proportionate to lower coin denominations. Its cupronickel content for instance is ten times that of the Roosevelt dime, four times that of the Washington quarter, and twice of the Kennedy half dollar.

by: SisterMarie

03-13-2009 @ 7:26pm

The situation that Tony Campolo described, while frustrating, should really not be all that surprising. The fact is that millions of Christians here in America demand little or no accountability from their local churches or from the electronic church. Why would they act any differently when it comes to ministries that are extended to other countries?

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 8:11pm

What's it? I live in Daegu, Korea. I'm not sure how "it" benefits me. I'm confused.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 8:20pm

If that be the case, then why are you making commentary about a situation
you're not even involved in?

That said, people who claim they oppose government spending on pet projects
will willingly accept it if it benefits them. Some years ago a high-class
municipality in my area which I believe to be heavily Republican was awarded
$300,000 for "beautification."

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:48pm

I think he was saying that justice is not more important in the sense that if one does "justice work" it's more important than "charity." I could be wrong.

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:52pm

He's making a point that one must be consistent when criticizing organizations. I don't think Tony needs to make the point here about gov't waste, since that wasn't the point of his article, but DITE has a point. Your reply to him didn't address his concern: that gov't wastes much on "justice" as well.

Can you not give DITE the benefit of the doubt? I think your criticism "you won't be saying that if it benefits you" is unfounded, because you do not know DITE, and you assume that some people only do what's beneficial to them, rather than live by their principles. This lack of integrity is exactly why Republicans lost ground over the past decade: they lost their soul and standing for their values. The Republican you referred to was probably one of those value-less politicians.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 10:51am

Well, I'm still a US citizen so I pay taxes, and all that. But I haven't benefited from beautification projects or anything.

by: xfree9

03-14-2009 @ 12:01pm

Ah, you are the Forgotten Man.

by: BlueDeacon

03-14-2009 @ 1:26pm

Depending on where your home base it, you do benefit. In fact, "red" areas
get more in federal revenue than they pay out.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 2:51pm

You bring up a good point. My income in fiscal year 2008 will might actually be below the poverty line. So, the government will probably give me free money this year. My deepest apologies for you more productive citizens whos wealth will be transfered to me. I'm buying an Xbox, Suckaz!

by: jonabark

03-14-2009 @ 6:02pm

Your credibility is not rising.

by: Eric77

03-14-2009 @ 6:06pm

Yes, that's basically it. It all depends on the literal situation.

by: Eric77

03-14-2009 @ 6:05pm

I agree, I just think it's a lot harder to work for justice in a far away land than it is right here in my community.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 7:39pm

My credibility may take a hit...

...but I will still have an Xbox...so...

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 4:21am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:58am

??

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:54am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: WaveTossed

03-16-2009 @ 8:56pm

"Do you believe prosylitizing is akin to forcing Jesus on someone?

"I just read a paper by a friend who likened the spiritual journey not as a long chase but walking around the corner and God is there.

"I like the idea of walking alongside someone, turning the corner, and bumping into God."

I guess I didn't make it clear when I used the term "prosylitize." Let me try and clarify my views. I see nothing at all wrong with mentioning Jesus and His Words. Nothing at all wrong with discussing His Words while working for justice. I believe that Jesus stood for justice, and therefore, not mentioning Jesus' passion for justice would be leaving out a very important part of working alongside others for justice.

What I meant to say about "forcing" my Christian beliefs on others is the following: spending most of my energy trying to convert a person to the Episcopal view (my own denomination) of the Christian religion. Trying to tell someone with whom I am working in particular justice issues that my own beliefs are the One True Way and those who don't believe as I do are bound to eternal damnation.

I believe in witnessing Jesus' Words by showing how I would work for justice and how this exemplifies the Way of Jesus.

I wouldn't want a Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu to tell me that theirs is the One True Way and that I am bound to eternal perdition. Jesus has said to treat one's neighbors the same way that I would want to be treated. So what I don't want done to me, I don't want to do to others.

I hope I made myself more clear.

by: letjusticerolldown

03-16-2009 @ 2:36pm

Do you believe prosylitizing is akin to forcing Jesus on someone?

I just read a paper by a friend who likened the spiritual journey not as a long chase but walking around the corner and God is there.

I like the idea of walking alongside someone, turning the corner, and bumping into God.

But when the man greets me, gives me a big hug, and then turns to my friend and gives them a big hug; I hope I do not respond to the friend's inquiry about who that man was by saying as much of the church says today:

"Uh, I don't know."
Uh, It doesnt' matter."
"I know but his name might hurt your ears."

by: WaveTossed

03-16-2009 @ 2:12am

"I am fine with your strategy.

"Do you believe the shalom of God is available in Jesus?

"Is there anyone you would want to keep that from??"

Absolutely not. I don't want to keep Jesus' peace from anyone. However, I don't want to force it upon anyone either. If I were to use force, or if I would insist that somone would have to "accept Jesus" as a pre-condition for my support, then I believe that I wouldn't be truly following the message that Jesus has taught.

by: letjusticerolldown

03-15-2009 @ 8:09pm

I am fine with your strategy.

Do you believe the shalom of God is available in Jesus?

Is there anyone you would want to keep that from??

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 6:21am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: Susan B Anthony Coin

03-06-2011 @ 8:17am

Significantly, the Eisenhower dollar was the last mintage to have base metal content proportionate to lower coin denominations. Its cupronickel content for instance is ten times that of the Roosevelt dime, four times that of the Washington quarter, and twice of the Kennedy half dollar.

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 5:58am

??

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 5:54am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 5:38pm

Thank you, Tony. You reminded me why justice -- the promotion of structural change to encourage folks actually to get out of poverty -- is more important and long-lasting than mere charity.

by: PDBurns

03-13-2009 @ 5:52pm

Thanks for this message. In my mind, it could not be said enough. This principle that you have outlined could also apply domestically. Often churches "re-invent the wheel" when starting a program or ministry. Often times the best way is to simply partner with an existing ministry that has shown to be successful.

by: Eric77

03-13-2009 @ 6:01pm

I think the distinction between charity and justice is an important one and it's good to remember. But I would say that justice is only more important in some instances. In most of the instances that Tony mentions, there is very little I can do to promote justice for poor people in third world countries. I can do a lot to help them meet their daily needs through charity though. However, in my own community, there is tremendous work I can do to promote justice. What I'm saying is, that in the eyes of an American Christian, whether justice or charity can be pursued depends on the situation and simply geography. Showing charity towards people in the third world shouldn't be discouraged because it doesn't result in long-lasting change. Jesus worked for both and didn't rank them in order of importance.

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 6:16pm

I agree, Tony. But why don't you scrutinize government waste this closely?

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 6:48pm

Well, when it comes to justice, I would think that working against the
political/social structure that keeps them poor is at least some help.
Withdrawing economic aid, whether directly or through trade (not buying goods)
might be one way. And sometimes charity doesn't work either because, as Tony
mentioned, often the money intended for the poor lines the pockets of someone
who's just plain greedy. That's why he supports groups whose activities he
can monitor.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 7:17pm

You won't be saying that when it benefits you (and it does, more than you realize).

by: SisterMarie

03-13-2009 @ 7:26pm

The situation that Tony Campolo described, while frustrating, should really not be all that surprising. The fact is that millions of Christians here in America demand little or no accountability from their local churches or from the electronic church. Why would they act any differently when it comes to ministries that are extended to other countries?

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 8:11pm

What's it? I live in Daegu, Korea. I'm not sure how "it" benefits me. I'm confused.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 8:20pm

If that be the case, then why are you making commentary about a situation
you're not even involved in?

That said, people who claim they oppose government spending on pet projects
will willingly accept it if it benefits them. Some years ago a high-class
municipality in my area which I believe to be heavily Republican was awarded
$300,000 for "beautification."

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:48pm

I think he was saying that justice is not more important in the sense that if one does "justice work" it's more important than "charity." I could be wrong.

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:52pm

He's making a point that one must be consistent when criticizing organizations. I don't think Tony needs to make the point here about gov't waste, since that wasn't the point of his article, but DITE has a point. Your reply to him didn't address his concern: that gov't wastes much on "justice" as well.

Can you not give DITE the benefit of the doubt? I think your criticism "you won't be saying that if it benefits you" is unfounded, because you do not know DITE, and you assume that some people only do what's beneficial to them, rather than live by their principles. This lack of integrity is exactly why Republicans lost ground over the past decade: they lost their soul and standing for their values. The Republican you referred to was probably one of those value-less politicians.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 10:51am

Well, I'm still a US citizen so I pay taxes, and all that. But I haven't benefited from beautification projects or anything.

by: xfree9

03-14-2009 @ 12:01pm

Ah, you are the Forgotten Man.

by: BlueDeacon

03-14-2009 @ 1:26pm

Depending on where your home base it, you do benefit. In fact, "red" areas
get more in federal revenue than they pay out.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 2:51pm

You bring up a good point. My income in fiscal year 2008 will might actually be below the poverty line. So, the government will probably give me free money this year. My deepest apologies for you more productive citizens whos wealth will be transfered to me. I'm buying an Xbox, Suckaz!

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 6:21am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 4:21am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 5:58am

??

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:58am

??

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 5:38pm

Thank you, Tony. You reminded me why justice -- the promotion of structural change to encourage folks actually to get out of poverty -- is more important and long-lasting than mere charity.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 5:38pm

Thank you, Tony. You reminded me why justice -- the promotion of structural change to encourage folks actually to get out of poverty -- is more important and long-lasting than mere charity.

by: PDBurns

03-13-2009 @ 5:52pm

Thanks for this message. In my mind, it could not be said enough. This principle that you have outlined could also apply domestically. Often churches "re-invent the wheel" when starting a program or ministry. Often times the best way is to simply partner with an existing ministry that has shown to be successful.

by: PDBurns

03-13-2009 @ 5:52pm

Thanks for this message. In my mind, it could not be said enough. This principle that you have outlined could also apply domestically. Often churches "re-invent the wheel" when starting a program or ministry. Often times the best way is to simply partner with an existing ministry that has shown to be successful.

by: Eric77

03-13-2009 @ 6:01pm

I think the distinction between charity and justice is an important one and it's good to remember. But I would say that justice is only more important in some instances. In most of the instances that Tony mentions, there is very little I can do to promote justice for poor people in third world countries. I can do a lot to help them meet their daily needs through charity though. However, in my own community, there is tremendous work I can do to promote justice. What I'm saying is, that in the eyes of an American Christian, whether justice or charity can be pursued depends on the situation and simply geography. Showing charity towards people in the third world shouldn't be discouraged because it doesn't result in long-lasting change. Jesus worked for both and didn't rank them in order of importance.

by: Eric77

03-13-2009 @ 6:01pm

I think the distinction between charity and justice is an important one and it's good to remember. But I would say that justice is only more important in some instances. In most of the instances that Tony mentions, there is very little I can do to promote justice for poor people in third world countries. I can do a lot to help them meet their daily needs through charity though. However, in my own community, there is tremendous work I can do to promote justice. What I'm saying is, that in the eyes of an American Christian, whether justice or charity can be pursued depends on the situation and simply geography. Showing charity towards people in the third world shouldn't be discouraged because it doesn't result in long-lasting change. Jesus worked for both and didn't rank them in order of importance.

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 6:16pm

I agree, Tony. But why don't you scrutinize government waste this closely?

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 6:16pm

I agree, Tony. But why don't you scrutinize government waste this closely?

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 6:48pm

Well, when it comes to justice, I would think that working against the
political/social structure that keeps them poor is at least some help.
Withdrawing economic aid, whether directly or through trade (not buying goods)
might be one way. And sometimes charity doesn't work either because, as Tony
mentioned, often the money intended for the poor lines the pockets of someone
who's just plain greedy. That's why he supports groups whose activities he
can monitor.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 6:48pm

Well, when it comes to justice, I would think that working against the
political/social structure that keeps them poor is at least some help.
Withdrawing economic aid, whether directly or through trade (not buying goods)
might be one way. And sometimes charity doesn't work either because, as Tony
mentioned, often the money intended for the poor lines the pockets of someone
who's just plain greedy. That's why he supports groups whose activities he
can monitor.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 7:17pm

You won't be saying that when it benefits you (and it does, more than you realize).

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 7:17pm

You won't be saying that when it benefits you (and it does, more than you realize).

by: SisterMarie

03-13-2009 @ 7:26pm

The situation that Tony Campolo described, while frustrating, should really not be all that surprising. The fact is that millions of Christians here in America demand little or no accountability from their local churches or from the electronic church. Why would they act any differently when it comes to ministries that are extended to other countries?

by: SisterMarie

03-13-2009 @ 7:26pm

The situation that Tony Campolo described, while frustrating, should really not be all that surprising. The fact is that millions of Christians here in America demand little or no accountability from their local churches or from the electronic church. Why would they act any differently when it comes to ministries that are extended to other countries?

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 8:11pm

What's it? I live in Daegu, Korea. I'm not sure how "it" benefits me. I'm confused.

by: DITE

03-13-2009 @ 8:11pm

What's it? I live in Daegu, Korea. I'm not sure how "it" benefits me. I'm confused.

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 8:20pm

If that be the case, then why are you making commentary about a situation
you're not even involved in?

That said, people who claim they oppose government spending on pet projects
will willingly accept it if it benefits them. Some years ago a high-class
municipality in my area which I believe to be heavily Republican was awarded
$300,000 for "beautification."

by: BlueDeacon

03-13-2009 @ 8:20pm

If that be the case, then why are you making commentary about a situation
you're not even involved in?

That said, people who claim they oppose government spending on pet projects
will willingly accept it if it benefits them. Some years ago a high-class
municipality in my area which I believe to be heavily Republican was awarded
$300,000 for "beautification."

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:48pm

I think he was saying that justice is not more important in the sense that if one does "justice work" it's more important than "charity." I could be wrong.

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:48pm

I think he was saying that justice is not more important in the sense that if one does "justice work" it's more important than "charity." I could be wrong.

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:52pm

He's making a point that one must be consistent when criticizing organizations. I don't think Tony needs to make the point here about gov't waste, since that wasn't the point of his article, but DITE has a point. Your reply to him didn't address his concern: that gov't wastes much on "justice" as well.

Can you not give DITE the benefit of the doubt? I think your criticism "you won't be saying that if it benefits you" is unfounded, because you do not know DITE, and you assume that some people only do what's beneficial to them, rather than live by their principles. This lack of integrity is exactly why Republicans lost ground over the past decade: they lost their soul and standing for their values. The Republican you referred to was probably one of those value-less politicians.

by: xfree9

03-13-2009 @ 11:52pm

He's making a point that one must be consistent when criticizing organizations. I don't think Tony needs to make the point here about gov't waste, since that wasn't the point of his article, but DITE has a point. Your reply to him didn't address his concern: that gov't wastes much on "justice" as well.

Can you not give DITE the benefit of the doubt? I think your criticism "you won't be saying that if it benefits you" is unfounded, because you do not know DITE, and you assume that some people only do what's beneficial to them, rather than live by their principles. This lack of integrity is exactly why Republicans lost ground over the past decade: they lost their soul and standing for their values. The Republican you referred to was probably one of those value-less politicians.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 10:51am

Well, I'm still a US citizen so I pay taxes, and all that. But I haven't benefited from beautification projects or anything.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 10:51am

Well, I'm still a US citizen so I pay taxes, and all that. But I haven't benefited from beautification projects or anything.

by: xfree9

03-14-2009 @ 12:01pm

Ah, you are the Forgotten Man.

by: xfree9

03-14-2009 @ 12:01pm

Ah, you are the Forgotten Man.

by: BlueDeacon

03-14-2009 @ 1:26pm

Depending on where your home base it, you do benefit. In fact, "red" areas
get more in federal revenue than they pay out.

by: BlueDeacon

03-14-2009 @ 1:26pm

Depending on where your home base it, you do benefit. In fact, "red" areas
get more in federal revenue than they pay out.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 2:51pm

You bring up a good point. My income in fiscal year 2008 will might actually be below the poverty line. So, the government will probably give me free money this year. My deepest apologies for you more productive citizens whos wealth will be transfered to me. I'm buying an Xbox, Suckaz!

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 2:51pm

You bring up a good point. My income in fiscal year 2008 will might actually be below the poverty line. So, the government will probably give me free money this year. My deepest apologies for you more productive citizens whos wealth will be transfered to me. I'm buying an Xbox, Suckaz!

by: jonabark

03-14-2009 @ 6:02pm

Your credibility is not rising.

by: jonabark

03-14-2009 @ 6:02pm

Your credibility is not rising.

by: Eric77

03-14-2009 @ 6:05pm

I agree, I just think it's a lot harder to work for justice in a far away land than it is right here in my community.

by: Eric77

03-14-2009 @ 6:05pm

I agree, I just think it's a lot harder to work for justice in a far away land than it is right here in my community.

by: Eric77

03-14-2009 @ 6:06pm

Yes, that's basically it. It all depends on the literal situation.

by: Eric77

03-14-2009 @ 6:06pm

Yes, that's basically it. It all depends on the literal situation.

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 7:39pm

My credibility may take a hit...

...but I will still have an Xbox...so...

by: DITE

03-14-2009 @ 7:39pm

My credibility may take a hit...

...but I will still have an Xbox...so...

by: letjusticerolldown

03-15-2009 @ 8:09pm

I am fine with your strategy.

Do you believe the shalom of God is available in Jesus?

Is there anyone you would want to keep that from??

by: letjusticerolldown

03-15-2009 @ 8:09pm

I am fine with your strategy.

Do you believe the shalom of God is available in Jesus?

Is there anyone you would want to keep that from??

by: WaveTossed

03-16-2009 @ 2:12am

"I am fine with your strategy.

"Do you believe the shalom of God is available in Jesus?

"Is there anyone you would want to keep that from??"

Absolutely not. I don't want to keep Jesus' peace from anyone. However, I don't want to force it upon anyone either. If I were to use force, or if I would insist that somone would have to "accept Jesus" as a pre-condition for my support, then I believe that I wouldn't be truly following the message that Jesus has taught.

by: WaveTossed

03-16-2009 @ 2:12am

"I am fine with your strategy.

"Do you believe the shalom of God is available in Jesus?

"Is there anyone you would want to keep that from??"

Absolutely not. I don't want to keep Jesus' peace from anyone. However, I don't want to force it upon anyone either. If I were to use force, or if I would insist that somone would have to "accept Jesus" as a pre-condition for my support, then I believe that I wouldn't be truly following the message that Jesus has taught.

by: letjusticerolldown

03-16-2009 @ 2:36pm

Do you believe prosylitizing is akin to forcing Jesus on someone?

I just read a paper by a friend who likened the spiritual journey not as a long chase but walking around the corner and God is there.

I like the idea of walking alongside someone, turning the corner, and bumping into God.

But when the man greets me, gives me a big hug, and then turns to my friend and gives them a big hug; I hope I do not respond to the friend's inquiry about who that man was by saying as much of the church says today:

"Uh, I don't know."
Uh, It doesnt' matter."
"I know but his name might hurt your ears."

by: letjusticerolldown

03-16-2009 @ 2:36pm

Do you believe prosylitizing is akin to forcing Jesus on someone?

I just read a paper by a friend who likened the spiritual journey not as a long chase but walking around the corner and God is there.

I like the idea of walking alongside someone, turning the corner, and bumping into God.

But when the man greets me, gives me a big hug, and then turns to my friend and gives them a big hug; I hope I do not respond to the friend's inquiry about who that man was by saying as much of the church says today:

"Uh, I don't know."
Uh, It doesnt' matter."
"I know but his name might hurt your ears."

by: WaveTossed

03-16-2009 @ 8:56pm

"Do you believe prosylitizing is akin to forcing Jesus on someone?

"I just read a paper by a friend who likened the spiritual journey not as a long chase but walking around the corner and God is there.

"I like the idea of walking alongside someone, turning the corner, and bumping into God."

I guess I didn't make it clear when I used the term "prosylitize." Let me try and clarify my views. I see nothing at all wrong with mentioning Jesus and His Words. Nothing at all wrong with discussing His Words while working for justice. I believe that Jesus stood for justice, and therefore, not mentioning Jesus' passion for justice would be leaving out a very important part of working alongside others for justice.

What I meant to say about "forcing" my Christian beliefs on others is the following: spending most of my energy trying to convert a person to the Episcopal view (my own denomination) of the Christian religion. Trying to tell someone with whom I am working in particular justice issues that my own beliefs are the One True Way and those who don't believe as I do are bound to eternal damnation.

I believe in witnessing Jesus' Words by showing how I would work for justice and how this exemplifies the Way of Jesus.

I wouldn't want a Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu to tell me that theirs is the One True Way and that I am bound to eternal perdition. Jesus has said to treat one's neighbors the same way that I would want to be treated. So what I don't want done to me, I don't want to do to others.

I hope I made myself more clear.

by: WaveTossed

03-16-2009 @ 8:56pm

"Do you believe prosylitizing is akin to forcing Jesus on someone?

"I just read a paper by a friend who likened the spiritual journey not as a long chase but walking around the corner and God is there.

"I like the idea of walking alongside someone, turning the corner, and bumping into God."

I guess I didn't make it clear when I used the term "prosylitize." Let me try and clarify my views. I see nothing at all wrong with mentioning Jesus and His Words. Nothing at all wrong with discussing His Words while working for justice. I believe that Jesus stood for justice, and therefore, not mentioning Jesus' passion for justice would be leaving out a very important part of working alongside others for justice.

What I meant to say about "forcing" my Christian beliefs on others is the following: spending most of my energy trying to convert a person to the Episcopal view (my own denomination) of the Christian religion. Trying to tell someone with whom I am working in particular justice issues that my own beliefs are the One True Way and those who don't believe as I do are bound to eternal damnation.

I believe in witnessing Jesus' Words by showing how I would work for justice and how this exemplifies the Way of Jesus.

I wouldn't want a Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu to tell me that theirs is the One True Way and that I am bound to eternal perdition. Jesus has said to treat one's neighbors the same way that I would want to be treated. So what I don't want done to me, I don't want to do to others.

I hope I made myself more clear.

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:54am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:54am

1-I know by in large funds giving toward missions to third world countries do not go directly go to local ministers. Funds are usually channel through American/ Canadian

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:58am

??

by: thinkingdeeper

05-22-2009 @ 3:58am

??