Jesus and the Children of Empire

Thanks for your kind words! Even though I do not respond to each comment, I do read and learn plenty from each one of them. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to continuing the dialogue!

-Cesar

Recognizing the anti-imperial strands of Jesus' life and teachings can make them more near and dear to those whose lives have been strongly flavored by oppression, and can help to explain the trends you mention of Christianity's rise in the Global South. For those who take this picture of Jesus' message seriously, it can also seriously inform a call to contemporary anti-imperialism, as you say. The article "Owning Our Involvement in Colombia's Complex War" by John Lindsay-Poland in Tikkun Magazine is one example of political analysis that is informed by spiritual values. It touches on issues of imperialism and Latin America, describing the history of U.S. intervention in Colombia and denouncing the effects of U.S. policies:

http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/2009022523495...

I really enjoyed reading your post. I think you bring to light very important issues for the world today.

Thank you for your post!

Jesus started with the quote "you have heard it said", in which the first part began with the rules that were given to Moses. But Jesus made the rule more challenging by altering the rules about our behavior to our attitudes.

As we approach the Easter Season, my hope is that the letter of the law may be replaced by our attitudes and motivations.

test

Sometimes the question is more important than the answer. A problem is that when we answer the question (even when we get it right) we tend to turn it into a new law, a new legalism. We worship the answer instead of God. I think you ask a wonderful question and pray it continues to draw you to seek the Kingdom, to seek God's reign each day. When we get down this journey's path of seeking we can look back and see the way had a remarkable glow to it--the path was lighted--and along the edges was a great throng of onlookers who had walked the path before.

Comment 2: My wife battled a critical illness for 4 years before passing. She spent almost all of one year in a large urban hospital. She encountered hundreds (maybe thousands) of caregivers. I heard a med student tell her, "You have been my best teacher." After her death her physician wrote to me, "This has been a once in a lifetime experience serving your wife and family."

I saw another physician who was in charge of the ICU one day spend hours sitting and talking with others on the staff for hours getting them to adapt some of their protocols to best serve my wife. His wife was a neuro-surgeon in the same hospital who became critically ill and was in the hospital for a long time. The experience with his wife as patient transformed how he did medicine.

I share this to say--I don't think the issue is so much our 'position' in life that is the issue--but rather our perception of our position. There are six year olds who understand their place of 'impoverishment' before life and God. There are persons on their deathbed at age 80 angrily raising their fist at God. But in general, there is a reality to life, that sooner or later smacks us in the face. You will likely be seeing persons, one after another, day in and day out; old and young; poor and rich; being smacked in the face with some hard realities. You will face every day our struggle against sin and death.

This is not an abstraction. If you serve in the affluent west--you will have, at your fingertips, some of the best/costliest tools. You will be the interface between persons caught between Earth and Heaven not knowing what they can grab onto, whether there is hope, and this health system.

This is not a place for the tame at heart. It takes great maturity to have so much at one's disposal and to bring those resources under the Lordship of Christ. It takes one with a radical call. You will encounter many in the professions whose backs are bent over trying to function under the weight of the systems and the pains of those they serve.

There is plenty of 'poverty' in our face. The question is whether we see and embrace it and are able to presence Christ within it. The demands on your professional preparation are too great. There is no way to accept into one's person all the pressures, internal contradictions, pains, relationships, justice issues, systemic dysfunction, etc. you will encounter. It can only be engaged by one who has yielded; by one who is fully engaged in life's journey of laying down one's life so we might find it. Those who genuinely see their poverty lose their dread of seeing God. That is our ultimate fear that affluence and self masks.

I heard John Perkins address the issue of whether there is a Christian priority on expressing the Gospel to the rich or to the poor. He wisely responded, "Reach the rich on the way to the poor."

Jesus started with the quote "you have heard it said", in which the first part began with the rules that were given to Moses. But Jesus made the rule more challenging by altering the rules about our behavior to our attitudes.

As we approach the Easter Season, my hope is that the letter of the law may be replaced by our attitudes and motivations.

You rightly point out that " the focus in these wealthy countries is more on personal spirituality, personal sin, and personal salvation." I just was thinking though that Jesus primary focus was not on implementing some form of social justice, opposing oppressive authorities, and helping all of the world's poor -- all legitimate things to do, and things that, as God, He had the power to do (and, by the way, in the fullness of time, will do); His primary focus in His first coming was resolution of the sin issue, His purpose for coming to this world at that time; and the core reason for all of the injustice and inequity in the world. His focus was on the problem not the symptoms. That is why He said to Nicodemus, "you must be born again." This doesn't in any way mean we should not be concerned for these social issues (and you are to be greatly commended for your efforts), but it does mean we should understand the difference between the disease (sin) and the symptoms (injustice), and we are called primarily to present the answer to the disease, which is "ye must be born again."

No argument that social injustice is sin, but human efforts to rid the world of social injustice will never solve the problem of social injustice because of sin. The reality (not an excuse for inactivity) is that social injustice will never be solved until Christ reigns, beginning with the millenium. Social injustice definitely should be opposed, but not at the expense of the gospel message. In many humanitarian activities done in the name of Christ, the gospel is not communicated. The author states, "Jesus' gospel is perhaps losing its radical edge." That may be the case, but a greater danger is that Jesus' gospel is lost because of a total focus on the radical edge. Do a lot of these people who are helped, ever gain an understanding of the gospel -- that we are sinful and separated from God; that Christ died for our sins and by placing one's trust in Him we find acceptance with God? There is an interesting account in the gospels of the judgment where people stood before God and said, "Lord, Lord, have we not done this in your name and that in your name" (paraphrase), and the response is "depart from me because I never knew you." The point is that a lot of people can do things in the name of Christ, things that are good, that, in reality from God's point of view, have nothing to do with Christ. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but I'm not sure.

Your response brings up a related question that I have also thought about for a while. You mention several examples of faithful followers of Christ who didn't necessarily come from marginalized backgrounds, but yet became marginalized because of their faith. The question I have is, will following Christ always inevitably lead to persecution/marginalization? Best I can tell, Scripture seems to indicate that this is the case. However, these Scriptures were written to people (i.e. the persecuted, those occupied by a foreign, malevolent government, those viewed as lowly in the world's eyes, etc) for whom this would obviously definitely happen. I feel as though I am authentically seeking to follow Christ, but yet I have experienced no persecution/marginalization. I have known many people who have, best I can tell, lived Christ-centered lives. Does this mean that we are not authentically seeking Christ in some way? Or should we view persecution and marginalization more as something that the authentic Christian may experience but not that they inevitably will?

test

Brilliant. That's all I can say about your post -- spoken from a perspective that has "been there, done that."

Sometimes the question is more important than the answer. A problem is that when we answer the question (even when we get it right) we tend to turn it into a new law, a new legalism. We worship the answer instead of God. I think you ask a wonderful question and pray it continues to draw you to seek the Kingdom, to seek God's reign each day. When we get down this journey's path of seeking we can look back and see the way had a remarkable glow to it--the path was lighted--and along the edges was a great throng of onlookers who had walked the path before.

Comment 2: My wife battled a critical illness for 4 years before passing. She spent almost all of one year in a large urban hospital. She encountered hundreds (maybe thousands) of caregivers. I heard a med student tell her, "You have been my best teacher." After her death her physician wrote to me, "This has been a once in a lifetime experience serving your wife and family."

I saw another physician who was in charge of the ICU one day spend hours sitting and talking with others on the staff for hours getting them to adapt some of their protocols to best serve my wife. His wife was a neuro-surgeon in the same hospital who became critically ill and was in the hospital for a long time. The experience with his wife as patient transformed how he did medicine.

I share this to say--I don't think the issue is so much our 'position' in life that is the issue--but rather our perception of our position. There are six year olds who understand their place of 'impoverishment' before life and God. There are persons on their deathbed at age 80 angrily raising their fist at God. But in general, there is a reality to life, that sooner or later smacks us in the face. You will likely be seeing persons, one after another, day in and day out; old and young; poor and rich; being smacked in the face with some hard realities. You will face every day our struggle against sin and death.

This is not an abstraction. If you serve in the affluent west--you will have, at your fingertips, some of the best/costliest tools. You will be the interface between persons caught between Earth and Heaven not knowing what they can grab onto, whether there is hope, and this health system.

This is not a place for the tame at heart. It takes great maturity to have so much at one's disposal and to bring those resources under the Lordship of Christ. It takes one with a radical call. You will encounter many in the professions whose backs are bent over trying to function under the weight of the systems and the pains of those they serve.

There is plenty of 'poverty' in our face. The question is whether we see and embrace it and are able to presence Christ within it. The demands on your professional preparation are too great. There is no way to accept into one's person all the pressures, internal contradictions, pains, relationships, justice issues, systemic dysfunction, etc. you will encounter. It can only be engaged by one who has yielded; by one who is fully engaged in life's journey of laying down one's life so we might find it. Those who genuinely see their poverty lose their dread of seeing God. That is our ultimate fear that affluence and self masks.

I heard John Perkins address the issue of whether there is a Christian priority on expressing the Gospel to the rich or to the poor. He wisely responded, "Reach the rich on the way to the poor."

I wrote: "Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman"

You wrote: "several examples of faithful followers of Christ"

Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman were Jewish. They didn't explicitly follow Christ. However, even though they didn't explicitly follow Jesus, yet they practiced the Way of Jesus by fighting for social justice.

Med_Stonewall:

I think you might be able to find the answer here. Jesus said:

"Matthew 19:23-30
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

One doesn't have to be poor or marginalized to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus said that it was very difficult for the rich to understand. But then He said that with God, all things are possible.

I happen to be a member of a marginalized minority (Gay/Lesbian people). However, I know many, many people who are neither poor, female, or members of marginalized minorities who understand and practice Jesus' Word. Just let yourself go and follow Jesus' Word and you will understand.

In fact, as a follower of justice (Jesus' Word involves justice), you will likely find yourself marginalized. Many of the martyrs for justice were people just like you: relatively comfortable middle-class people who reached out to practice justice. Examples that I know of are: Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, Jonathan Daniels, Rev. Jim Reeb: these are among the many people who gave up their lives to fight for civil rights for Black people in the 1960s. Then there is Frank Moscone, Mayor of San Francisco, who along with his colleague Harvey Milk, gave up his life to fight for Gay civil rights.

In Latin American, there was Bishop Oscar Romero, who came from a comfortable background who was martyred for standing up for the poor. This happens all over the world.

As a Christian: welcome to the world of the marginalized.

You, my dear friend, came into this world naked and will leave the same. You ain't goin' to take one thing with ya'. Except an eternal, complete fellowship with Abba--and a blessed place beyond comprehension.

We are all stripped.

Count it all joy....whenever you face trials.....

God issues many invitations in life. The invitation to lay down one's life is going to come in a hundred different forms. Sometimes we realize the invitation is there. Sometimes it creates an internal turmoil. Other times we simply respond yes and do not realize we did it.

There is a grace and provision that comes with the invitations. I have done many things in life that look like sacrifice to others-that occur to me simply as blessings.

Marginalization and persecution are pretty self-centered concepts. Do you think Jesus, on the cross, was thinking--"I have chosen marginalization and persecution??"

He set aside all to be what---marginalized or unified??

So I think the journey demands an openness to seeing, receiving and lovingly saying "yes" to the invitations of God--and having a gratitude for both the invitations and the grace to respond.

I wonder if your question is not taking on the expectations of some other people whom in the course of saying yes to the invitations of Jesus--have taken their journeys and turned them into a legalism or a standard for you and others to meet. Don't strive to achieve the journey of another. Take their journey as encouragement and guidance; but your response must be to the invitations of God, confident in His grace, and compelled by his love.

sorry not to adress more - as I am busy, but the headline caught my eye
He was not a Palestinian Jew, but an Israeli one.
The term Palestine was given as an insult, by the Romans, centuries after Jesus

Thanks, ail28, for your comment!

I really enjoyed reading your post. I think you bring to light very important issues for the world today.

Thank you for your post!

You wrote: "Marginalization and persecution are pretty self-centered concepts. Do you think Jesus, on the cross, was thinking--'I have chosen marginalization and persecution??'

Not explicitly when He was on the cross. However, earlier, Jesus did have a few words to say about persecution:

Matthew Chapter 5:

"10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, F8 for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

Your response brings up a related question that I have also thought about for a while. You mention several examples of faithful followers of Christ who didn't necessarily come from marginalized backgrounds, but yet became marginalized because of their faith. The question I have is, will following Christ always inevitably lead to persecution/marginalization? Best I can tell, Scripture seems to indicate that this is the case. However, these Scriptures were written to people (i.e. the persecuted, those occupied by a foreign, malevolent government, those viewed as lowly in the world's eyes, etc) for whom this would obviously definitely happen. I feel as though I am authentically seeking to follow Christ, but yet I have experienced no persecution/marginalization. I have known many people who have, best I can tell, lived Christ-centered lives. Does this mean that we are not authentically seeking Christ in some way? Or should we view persecution and marginalization more as something that the authentic Christian may experience but not that they inevitably will?

I think you have it right. No one should actually seek persecution; however, a true follower of Christ eventually will experience it at some point. In Charles Colson's "Loving God," he tells the story of a Polish cardinal who was imprisoned for speaking out against the repressive Communist regime. Noting that he alone of his seminary classmates had escaped jail, he wryly said (my paraphrase), "What took them so long to bust me?"

No, you don't have to become a martyr or face persecution in order to be able to follow Christ. You only have to be willing to face these things. It's not inevitable that you will face adversities; it's just possible.

You, my dear friend, came into this world naked and will leave the same. You ain't goin' to take one thing with ya'. Except an eternal, complete fellowship with Abba--and a blessed place beyond comprehension.

We are all stripped.

Count it all joy....whenever you face trials.....

God issues many invitations in life. The invitation to lay down one's life is going to come in a hundred different forms. Sometimes we realize the invitation is there. Sometimes it creates an internal turmoil. Other times we simply respond yes and do not realize we did it.

There is a grace and provision that comes with the invitations. I have done many things in life that look like sacrifice to others-that occur to me simply as blessings.

Marginalization and persecution are pretty self-centered concepts. Do you think Jesus, on the cross, was thinking--"I have chosen marginalization and persecution??"

He set aside all to be what---marginalized or unified??

So I think the journey demands an openness to seeing, receiving and lovingly saying "yes" to the invitations of God--and having a gratitude for both the invitations and the grace to respond.

I wonder if your question is not taking on the expectations of some other people whom in the course of saying yes to the invitations of Jesus--have taken their journeys and turned them into a legalism or a standard for you and others to meet. Don't strive to achieve the journey of another. Take their journey as encouragement and guidance; but your response must be to the invitations of God, confident in His grace, and compelled by his love.