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Obama: 'America is not a Christian Nation'

by Paul Hartge 04-09-2009 | 2:30pm
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Monday, in his address to the Turkish Parlaiment, President Obama made a statement guaranteed to spark controversy. "America is not a Christian nation." Like clockwork, conservatives voiced their complaint. Though it is clear that people have vastly different interpretations of what the founding fathers intended for the religiosity of America, from a theological standpoint, we cannot assert that America is a Christian nation.

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This particularly struck me after watching FOX and Friends Wendesday morning. They were asking a panel whether or not President Obama was attacking or disregarding American Christians by making this statement. To their credit, they mostly agreed that President Obama did not put down Christians in America. However, once the show cut to commercial, they aired an advertisement for what else but Hooters, the restaurant that respects the image of God in women as much as Exxon/Mobile respects the call for stewardship of God's creation.

How much more offended should we have been if President Obama did declare America to be a Christian nation? Would we really want our faith and our savior associated with a country that gave birth to a trashy restaurant that objectifies women, or worse, a country that legalized slavery for 200 years and now has a wide gap between the rich and the poor? No. But at the same time we cannot deny that our country has done many great things under the influence of Christianity, such as the abolition of slavery, the passage of civil rights legislation, and the creation of PEPFAR.

This dichotomy is reminiscent of St. Augustine's teachings in The City of God. Essentially, in the book he teaches that no human institution, even the institution which calls itself the church, can fully embody the teachings of Christ, but within these institutions are committed Christians who do God's will. This applies to America too. America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God. The only state, nation, principality, or country that can call itself a Christian "nation" is the kingdom of God fully ushered in by the second coming of Christ.

America is not a Christian nation because no nation is a Christian nation.

Paul Hartge is the communications and media intern for Sojourners.

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by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 5:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: Eric77

04-09-2009 @ 1:36pm

This is one of those issues that will be a permanent debate because no one ever defines what a "Christian nation" is before spouting off. Before entering into a debate like this we should at least define the term.

Is a Christian nation one that has Christianity as it official state-sponsored religion?

Is a Christian nation one in which Christianity is the majority religion of the people who live there?

Is a Christian nation one that has a government and/or people that are following Christian ideals?

Is a Christian nation one that has founding ideals that are based, in part, on Christian teaching?

Is a Christian nation one that was founded, primarily, by Christians?

Of course, there are other ways to define it too. Arguing over Obama's statement makes no sense unless we define what we mean by the term.

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 1:58pm

"Every institution is inspired, at least implicitly, by a vision of man and his destiny, from which it derives the point of reference for its judgment, its hierarchy of values, its line of conduct. Most societies have formed their institutions in the recognition of a certain preeminence of man over things."

"The Church, because of her commission and competence, is not to be confused in any way with the political community. She is both the sign and the safeguard of the transcendent character of the human person."
Catechism of the Catholic Church 2244, 2245

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 2:01pm

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

by: nuclearferret

04-09-2009 @ 2:50pm

"America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God."

Hence the beauty of the United States, since the followers of Christ are by no means monolithic in pushing the government to do the will of God, and the majority do not believe that a theocracy is appropriate anyway. Sojourners has their interpretation of "will of God," fundamentalist evangelicals have theirs, Catholics have theirs, as do Jews, Muslims, and others who do not even recognize Christ.

by: xfree9

04-09-2009 @ 3:31pm

I'm glad America is not a Christian nation, because historically when Christians get into power, they do just as horrendous things as when non-Christians do... not always, and not in all places, but Christianity is not about gaining power and control over society, it's about subverting the power structures and defending the defenseless and growing like a mustard seed: from the ground up.

by: brgulker

04-09-2009 @ 3:45pm

Even if we were founded as a Christian nation (and I don't think we were), we definitely are not one now.

We oppress our own poor; we kill thousands of innocent people around the world each year; our society if littered with idols; etc., etc., etc.

Put perfectly above:

This dichotomy is reminiscent of St. Augustine's teachings in The City of God. Essentially, in the book he teaches that no human institution, even the institution which calls itself the church, can fully embody the teachings of Christ, but within these institutions are committed Christians who do God's will. This applies to America too. America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God. The only state, nation, principality, or country that can call itself a Christian "nation" is the kingdom of God fully ushered in by the second coming of Christ.

America is not a Christian nation because no nation is a Christian nation.

by: BlueDeacon

04-09-2009 @ 6:10pm

I will add only this: Because of the nature of our faith, Christians are and should always be the perpetual "outsiders" -- just like the early church. And like xfree9 wrote earlier, subversion was the name of the game, the church using civil law in a way it was never intended to so that it could give God the glory.

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 3:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: ando

04-13-2009 @ 8:12pm

Whether or not America is a Christian nation isn't really the issue. However, it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles that are supposed to govern our society even today. Today's anything goes society has strayed far from the founding principles. My hope is we become a pre-Christian rather than post-Christian society, where the only hope one has is in Jesus Christ

by: paradoxtor

04-09-2009 @ 9:27pm

What I find interesting is that the statement appears to be made to placate those who think that we see ourselves as a Christian nation and are offended by that. Yet we see no corresponding attitude toward those who unapologetically declare themselves to be a Muslim nation. That said, I agree that we are and never have been a Christian nation. There is only one Christian nation and it is the kingdom of God. We are, as Christians, aliens in this land.

by: Eric77

04-09-2009 @ 1:36pm

This is one of those issues that will be a permanent debate because no one ever defines what a "Christian nation" is before spouting off. Before entering into a debate like this we should at least define the term.

Is a Christian nation one that has Christianity as it official state-sponsored religion?

Is a Christian nation one in which Christianity is the majority religion of the people who live there?

Is a Christian nation one that has a government and/or people that are following Christian ideals?

Is a Christian nation one that has founding ideals that are based, in part, on Christian teaching?

Is a Christian nation one that was founded, primarily, by Christians?

Of course, there are other ways to define it too. Arguing over Obama's statement makes no sense unless we define what we mean by the term.

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 1:58pm

"Every institution is inspired, at least implicitly, by a vision of man and his destiny, from which it derives the point of reference for its judgment, its hierarchy of values, its line of conduct. Most societies have formed their institutions in the recognition of a certain preeminence of man over things."

"The Church, because of her commission and competence, is not to be confused in any way with the political community. She is both the sign and the safeguard of the transcendent character of the human person."
Catechism of the Catholic Church 2244, 2245

by: letjusticerolldown

04-09-2009 @ 9:57pm

To me this is one of those issues forever unresolved because everyone wants to make the counterpoint.

Persons that say this is a Christian nation and those that point out it is not a Christian nation are saying something worth hearing. Both sides will be able to stop making their point as soon as the other side listens.

One would think that persons so dogmatically demanding the truth be known would demonstrate a little more humility in seeking the truth together.

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 2:01pm

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

by: nuclearferret

04-09-2009 @ 2:50pm

"America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God."

Hence the beauty of the United States, since the followers of Christ are by no means monolithic in pushing the government to do the will of God, and the majority do not believe that a theocracy is appropriate anyway. Sojourners has their interpretation of "will of God," fundamentalist evangelicals have theirs, Catholics have theirs, as do Jews, Muslims, and others who do not even recognize Christ.

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 1:22am

Sort of like terrorism, right?

by: xfree9

04-09-2009 @ 3:31pm

I'm glad America is not a Christian nation, because historically when Christians get into power, they do just as horrendous things as when non-Christians do... not always, and not in all places, but Christianity is not about gaining power and control over society, it's about subverting the power structures and defending the defenseless and growing like a mustard seed: from the ground up.

by: brgulker

04-09-2009 @ 3:45pm

Even if we were founded as a Christian nation (and I don't think we were), we definitely are not one now.

We oppress our own poor; we kill thousands of innocent people around the world each year; our society if littered with idols; etc., etc., etc.

Put perfectly above:

This dichotomy is reminiscent of St. Augustine's teachings in The City of God. Essentially, in the book he teaches that no human institution, even the institution which calls itself the church, can fully embody the teachings of Christ, but within these institutions are committed Christians who do God's will. This applies to America too. America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God. The only state, nation, principality, or country that can call itself a Christian "nation" is the kingdom of God fully ushered in by the second coming of Christ.

America is not a Christian nation because no nation is a Christian nation.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:10pm

I think terrorism, in the commonly accepted view of the word, is a little easier to define, but same idea, yes.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:23pm

I think the different views of the people you're talking (not exactly sure who they are) can be explained by the different views that most Christians and Muslims have of the state.

Albert Mohler had a helpful commentary on this topic:
http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama's purpose here, at least partially, is to help the Muslim world understand America's actions and to help them understand that they should not equate the American government's actions with Christianity. When the U.S. attacks a Muslim country Muslims shouldn't view it as a war of religions, but a war between states. Neither Christianity nor the U.S. is at war against Islam. That's his main point, I think.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:28pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:30pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: BlueDeacon

04-09-2009 @ 6:10pm

I will add only this: Because of the nature of our faith, Christians are and should always be the perpetual "outsiders" -- just like the early church. And like xfree9 wrote earlier, subversion was the name of the game, the church using civil law in a way it was never intended to so that it could give God the glory.

by: paradoxtor

04-09-2009 @ 9:27pm

What I find interesting is that the statement appears to be made to placate those who think that we see ourselves as a Christian nation and are offended by that. Yet we see no corresponding attitude toward those who unapologetically declare themselves to be a Muslim nation. That said, I agree that we are and never have been a Christian nation. There is only one Christian nation and it is the kingdom of God. We are, as Christians, aliens in this land.

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 10:33pm

One man's godly patriot is the next man's terrorist.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-09-2009 @ 9:57pm

To me this is one of those issues forever unresolved because everyone wants to make the counterpoint.

Persons that say this is a Christian nation and those that point out it is not a Christian nation are saying something worth hearing. Both sides will be able to stop making their point as soon as the other side listens.

One would think that persons so dogmatically demanding the truth be known would demonstrate a little more humility in seeking the truth together.

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 1:22am

Sort of like terrorism, right?

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:10pm

I think terrorism, in the commonly accepted view of the word, is a little easier to define, but same idea, yes.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:23pm

I think the different views of the people you're talking (not exactly sure who they are) can be explained by the different views that most Christians and Muslims have of the state.

Albert Mohler had a helpful commentary on this topic:
http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama's purpose here, at least partially, is to help the Muslim world understand America's actions and to help them understand that they should not equate the American government's actions with Christianity. When the U.S. attacks a Muslim country Muslims shouldn't view it as a war of religions, but a war between states. Neither Christianity nor the U.S. is at war against Islam. That's his main point, I think.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:28pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:30pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: xfree9

04-11-2009 @ 2:12pm

Glad we agree!

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 10:33pm

One man's godly patriot is the next man's terrorist.

by: xfree9

04-11-2009 @ 2:12pm

Glad we agree!

by: Adam Mangold

07-29-2011 @ 3:19pm

I have one question for all of you: What is
printed on all of our currency? "In God we trust." So why did Obama
state that we are no longer a Christian nation? Lemme guess to make
friends with whom we are at war with (Iraq, Afghanistan)/ Muslim
countries. Oh wait Obama forgot about that we are all in battle. That's
right! We are in a spiritual war within ourselves and it has been that
way since the beginning of time. Good vs Evil. If you read in
Revelations (which is in the Bible which is God's word and God/Jesus
Christ is the most supreme being in all of the universes) at the end of
the world good beats evil. Jesus wins. Jesus said follow me that you
may have life. We die two times. The 1st death is the death of our
bodies. The 2nd death is the death of our souls and only Jesus Christ
can save our souls. Believe in Him so that you may have everlasting life
and if you don't believe you will be thrown into the everlasting lake
of fire where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. So the
question is do you believe? "For God so loved the world that He gave His
one and only Son, That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but
have everlasting life." John 3:16

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 3:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: ando

04-13-2009 @ 8:12pm

Whether or not America is a Christian nation isn't really the issue. However, it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles that are supposed to govern our society even today. Today's anything goes society has strayed far from the founding principles. My hope is we become a pre-Christian rather than post-Christian society, where the only hope one has is in Jesus Christ

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 5:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 10:56pm

"Amen" to your comments. Right on target. Shame on "Christians" who can't accept these sad truths.

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 11:02pm

brgulker nails it. Too many "Christians" do not want to admit to America's horrors, past and present. I find very little Christ in American religious institutions.

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 10:56pm

"Amen" to your comments. Right on target. Shame on "Christians" who can't accept these sad truths.

by: Adam Mangold

07-29-2011 @ 3:19pm

I have one question for all of you: What is
printed on all of our currency? "In God we trust." So why did Obama
state that we are no longer a Christian nation? Lemme guess to make
friends with whom we are at war with (Iraq, Afghanistan)/ Muslim
countries. Oh wait Obama forgot about that we are all in battle. That's
right! We are in a spiritual war within ourselves and it has been that
way since the beginning of time. Good vs Evil. If you read in
Revelations (which is in the Bible which is God's word and God/Jesus
Christ is the most supreme being in all of the universes) at the end of
the world good beats evil. Jesus wins. Jesus said follow me that you
may have life. We die two times. The 1st death is the death of our
bodies. The 2nd death is the death of our souls and only Jesus Christ
can save our souls. Believe in Him so that you may have everlasting life
and if you don't believe you will be thrown into the everlasting lake
of fire where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. So the
question is do you believe? "For God so loved the world that He gave His
one and only Son, That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but
have everlasting life." John 3:16

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 11:02pm

brgulker nails it. Too many "Christians" do not want to admit to America's horrors, past and present. I find very little Christ in American religious institutions.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: Eric77

04-09-2009 @ 1:36pm

This is one of those issues that will be a permanent debate because no one ever defines what a "Christian nation" is before spouting off. Before entering into a debate like this we should at least define the term.

Is a Christian nation one that has Christianity as it official state-sponsored religion?

Is a Christian nation one in which Christianity is the majority religion of the people who live there?

Is a Christian nation one that has a government and/or people that are following Christian ideals?

Is a Christian nation one that has founding ideals that are based, in part, on Christian teaching?

Is a Christian nation one that was founded, primarily, by Christians?

Of course, there are other ways to define it too. Arguing over Obama's statement makes no sense unless we define what we mean by the term.

by: Eric77

04-09-2009 @ 1:36pm

This is one of those issues that will be a permanent debate because no one ever defines what a "Christian nation" is before spouting off. Before entering into a debate like this we should at least define the term.

Is a Christian nation one that has Christianity as it official state-sponsored religion?

Is a Christian nation one in which Christianity is the majority religion of the people who live there?

Is a Christian nation one that has a government and/or people that are following Christian ideals?

Is a Christian nation one that has founding ideals that are based, in part, on Christian teaching?

Is a Christian nation one that was founded, primarily, by Christians?

Of course, there are other ways to define it too. Arguing over Obama's statement makes no sense unless we define what we mean by the term.

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 1:58pm

"Every institution is inspired, at least implicitly, by a vision of man and his destiny, from which it derives the point of reference for its judgment, its hierarchy of values, its line of conduct. Most societies have formed their institutions in the recognition of a certain preeminence of man over things."

"The Church, because of her commission and competence, is not to be confused in any way with the political community. She is both the sign and the safeguard of the transcendent character of the human person."
Catechism of the Catholic Church 2244, 2245

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 1:58pm

"Every institution is inspired, at least implicitly, by a vision of man and his destiny, from which it derives the point of reference for its judgment, its hierarchy of values, its line of conduct. Most societies have formed their institutions in the recognition of a certain preeminence of man over things."

"The Church, because of her commission and competence, is not to be confused in any way with the political community. She is both the sign and the safeguard of the transcendent character of the human person."
Catechism of the Catholic Church 2244, 2245

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 2:01pm

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

by: neuro_nurse

04-09-2009 @ 2:01pm

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

by: nuclearferret

04-09-2009 @ 2:50pm

"America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God."

Hence the beauty of the United States, since the followers of Christ are by no means monolithic in pushing the government to do the will of God, and the majority do not believe that a theocracy is appropriate anyway. Sojourners has their interpretation of "will of God," fundamentalist evangelicals have theirs, Catholics have theirs, as do Jews, Muslims, and others who do not even recognize Christ.

by: nuclearferret

04-09-2009 @ 2:50pm

"America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God."

Hence the beauty of the United States, since the followers of Christ are by no means monolithic in pushing the government to do the will of God, and the majority do not believe that a theocracy is appropriate anyway. Sojourners has their interpretation of "will of God," fundamentalist evangelicals have theirs, Catholics have theirs, as do Jews, Muslims, and others who do not even recognize Christ.

by: xfree9

04-09-2009 @ 3:31pm

I'm glad America is not a Christian nation, because historically when Christians get into power, they do just as horrendous things as when non-Christians do... not always, and not in all places, but Christianity is not about gaining power and control over society, it's about subverting the power structures and defending the defenseless and growing like a mustard seed: from the ground up.

by: xfree9

04-09-2009 @ 3:31pm

I'm glad America is not a Christian nation, because historically when Christians get into power, they do just as horrendous things as when non-Christians do... not always, and not in all places, but Christianity is not about gaining power and control over society, it's about subverting the power structures and defending the defenseless and growing like a mustard seed: from the ground up.

by: brgulker

04-09-2009 @ 3:45pm

Even if we were founded as a Christian nation (and I don't think we were), we definitely are not one now.

We oppress our own poor; we kill thousands of innocent people around the world each year; our society if littered with idols; etc., etc., etc.

Put perfectly above:

This dichotomy is reminiscent of St. Augustine's teachings in The City of God. Essentially, in the book he teaches that no human institution, even the institution which calls itself the church, can fully embody the teachings of Christ, but within these institutions are committed Christians who do God's will. This applies to America too. America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God. The only state, nation, principality, or country that can call itself a Christian "nation" is the kingdom of God fully ushered in by the second coming of Christ.

America is not a Christian nation because no nation is a Christian nation.

by: brgulker

04-09-2009 @ 3:45pm

Even if we were founded as a Christian nation (and I don't think we were), we definitely are not one now.

We oppress our own poor; we kill thousands of innocent people around the world each year; our society if littered with idols; etc., etc., etc.

Put perfectly above:

This dichotomy is reminiscent of St. Augustine's teachings in The City of God. Essentially, in the book he teaches that no human institution, even the institution which calls itself the church, can fully embody the teachings of Christ, but within these institutions are committed Christians who do God's will. This applies to America too. America is not a Christian nation, but there are followers of Christ within the country pushing the government and the nation to do the will of God. The only state, nation, principality, or country that can call itself a Christian "nation" is the kingdom of God fully ushered in by the second coming of Christ.

America is not a Christian nation because no nation is a Christian nation.

by: BlueDeacon

04-09-2009 @ 6:10pm

I will add only this: Because of the nature of our faith, Christians are and should always be the perpetual "outsiders" -- just like the early church. And like xfree9 wrote earlier, subversion was the name of the game, the church using civil law in a way it was never intended to so that it could give God the glory.

by: BlueDeacon

04-09-2009 @ 6:10pm

I will add only this: Because of the nature of our faith, Christians are and should always be the perpetual "outsiders" -- just like the early church. And like xfree9 wrote earlier, subversion was the name of the game, the church using civil law in a way it was never intended to so that it could give God the glory.

by: paradoxtor

04-09-2009 @ 9:27pm

What I find interesting is that the statement appears to be made to placate those who think that we see ourselves as a Christian nation and are offended by that. Yet we see no corresponding attitude toward those who unapologetically declare themselves to be a Muslim nation. That said, I agree that we are and never have been a Christian nation. There is only one Christian nation and it is the kingdom of God. We are, as Christians, aliens in this land.

by: paradoxtor

04-09-2009 @ 9:27pm

What I find interesting is that the statement appears to be made to placate those who think that we see ourselves as a Christian nation and are offended by that. Yet we see no corresponding attitude toward those who unapologetically declare themselves to be a Muslim nation. That said, I agree that we are and never have been a Christian nation. There is only one Christian nation and it is the kingdom of God. We are, as Christians, aliens in this land.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-09-2009 @ 9:57pm

To me this is one of those issues forever unresolved because everyone wants to make the counterpoint.

Persons that say this is a Christian nation and those that point out it is not a Christian nation are saying something worth hearing. Both sides will be able to stop making their point as soon as the other side listens.

One would think that persons so dogmatically demanding the truth be known would demonstrate a little more humility in seeking the truth together.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-09-2009 @ 9:57pm

To me this is one of those issues forever unresolved because everyone wants to make the counterpoint.

Persons that say this is a Christian nation and those that point out it is not a Christian nation are saying something worth hearing. Both sides will be able to stop making their point as soon as the other side listens.

One would think that persons so dogmatically demanding the truth be known would demonstrate a little more humility in seeking the truth together.

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 1:22am

Sort of like terrorism, right?

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 1:22am

Sort of like terrorism, right?

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:10pm

I think terrorism, in the commonly accepted view of the word, is a little easier to define, but same idea, yes.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:10pm

I think terrorism, in the commonly accepted view of the word, is a little easier to define, but same idea, yes.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:23pm

I think the different views of the people you're talking (not exactly sure who they are) can be explained by the different views that most Christians and Muslims have of the state.

Albert Mohler had a helpful commentary on this topic:
http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama's purpose here, at least partially, is to help the Muslim world understand America's actions and to help them understand that they should not equate the American government's actions with Christianity. When the U.S. attacks a Muslim country Muslims shouldn't view it as a war of religions, but a war between states. Neither Christianity nor the U.S. is at war against Islam. That's his main point, I think.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:23pm

I think the different views of the people you're talking (not exactly sure who they are) can be explained by the different views that most Christians and Muslims have of the state.

Albert Mohler had a helpful commentary on this topic:
http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama's purpose here, at least partially, is to help the Muslim world understand America's actions and to help them understand that they should not equate the American government's actions with Christianity. When the U.S. attacks a Muslim country Muslims shouldn't view it as a war of religions, but a war between states. Neither Christianity nor the U.S. is at war against Islam. That's his main point, I think.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:28pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:28pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:30pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: Eric77

04-10-2009 @ 12:30pm

The lack of a corresponding attitude among the people you're talking about might be explained by the different way that Christians and Muslims look at the state. Albert Mohler has a helpful commentary on this: http://www.christianity.com/blogs/mohler/11602059/

He writes: "Throughout the Muslim world, most Muslims do see the United States as, in effect, at war with Islam. Classical Islam understands no real distinction between religion and the state, but instead establishes a unitary society. Thus, when a foreign power like the United States invades a Muslim nation like Iraq, most Muslims see this as a war against Islam."

Obama wants to help Muslims understand that Americans do not view the state as an extension of their religion. The actions of the U.S. government should not be equated with Christianity. When the U.S. government attacks a Muslim nation it's not a war between a Christian nation and a Muslim nation (a religious war) but a war between two states. Obama's main point is to diffuse the notion that there is a war against Islam emanating from the U.S.

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 10:33pm

One man's godly patriot is the next man's terrorist.

by: PASTOR JEFF

04-10-2009 @ 10:33pm

One man's godly patriot is the next man's terrorist.

by: xfree9

04-11-2009 @ 2:12pm

Glad we agree!

by: xfree9

04-11-2009 @ 2:12pm

Glad we agree!

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 10:56pm

"Amen" to your comments. Right on target. Shame on "Christians" who can't accept these sad truths.

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 10:56pm

"Amen" to your comments. Right on target. Shame on "Christians" who can't accept these sad truths.

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 11:02pm

brgulker nails it. Too many "Christians" do not want to admit to America's horrors, past and present. I find very little Christ in American religious institutions.

by: saucybeef

04-12-2009 @ 11:02pm

brgulker nails it. Too many "Christians" do not want to admit to America's horrors, past and present. I find very little Christ in American religious institutions.

by: ando

04-13-2009 @ 8:12pm

Whether or not America is a Christian nation isn't really the issue. However, it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles that are supposed to govern our society even today. Today's anything goes society has strayed far from the founding principles. My hope is we become a pre-Christian rather than post-Christian society, where the only hope one has is in Jesus Christ

by: ando

04-13-2009 @ 8:12pm

Whether or not America is a Christian nation isn't really the issue. However, it was founded on Judeo-Christian principles that are supposed to govern our society even today. Today's anything goes society has strayed far from the founding principles. My hope is we become a pre-Christian rather than post-Christian society, where the only hope one has is in Jesus Christ

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 3:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 3:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 5:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: TinMan

04-16-2009 @ 5:09pm

I actually think that one of the problems with Christianity, especially when it comes to arguing for social issues, is that we often say what we are not, or what we do not agree with.

Perhaps Obama could have said that America is a deeply religious nation, with adherents of many faiths, seeking to live and to work together.

by: Adam Mangold

07-29-2011 @ 3:19pm

I have one question for all of you: What is
printed on all of our currency? "In God we trust." So why did Obama
state that we are no longer a Christian nation? Lemme guess to make
friends with whom we are at war with (Iraq, Afghanistan)/ Muslim
countries. Oh wait Obama forgot about that we are all in battle. That's
right! We are in a spiritual war within ourselves and it has been that
way since the beginning of time. Good vs Evil. If you read in
Revelations (which is in the Bible which is God's word and God/Jesus
Christ is the most supreme being in all of the universes) at the end of
the world good beats evil. Jesus wins. Jesus said follow me that you
may have life. We die two times. The 1st death is the death of our
bodies. The 2nd death is the death of our souls and only Jesus Christ
can save our souls. Believe in Him so that you may have everlasting life
and if you don't believe you will be thrown into the everlasting lake
of fire where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. So the
question is do you believe? "For God so loved the world that He gave His
one and only Son, That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but
have everlasting life." John 3:16

by: Adam Mangold

07-29-2011 @ 3:19pm

I have one question for all of you: What is
printed on all of our currency? "In God we trust." So why did Obama
state that we are no longer a Christian nation? Lemme guess to make
friends with whom we are at war with (Iraq, Afghanistan)/ Muslim
countries. Oh wait Obama forgot about that we are all in battle. That's
right! We are in a spiritual war within ourselves and it has been that
way since the beginning of time. Good vs Evil. If you read in
Revelations (which is in the Bible which is God's word and God/Jesus
Christ is the most supreme being in all of the universes) at the end of
the world good beats evil. Jesus wins. Jesus said follow me that you
may have life. We die two times. The 1st death is the death of our
bodies. The 2nd death is the death of our souls and only Jesus Christ
can save our souls. Believe in Him so that you may have everlasting life
and if you don't believe you will be thrown into the everlasting lake
of fire where there will be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. So the
question is do you believe? "For God so loved the world that He gave His
one and only Son, That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but
have everlasting life." John 3:16