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The Two Futures Project: Who Would Jesus Bomb?

by Shane Claiborne 05-06-2009 | 1:00pm
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In light of headlines that dozens of kids and families were killed in US bombings of Afghanistan on Tuesday, this conversation seems as urgent as ever. God help us. It was a beautiful thing to join my friend and brotha Rob Bell, Baptist minister Tyler Wigg-Stevenson, former Secretary of State George Schultz, author and mega-church co-founder Lynne Hybels, and Southern Baptist leader Jonathan Merritt as we launched the Two Futures Project last week, an ambitious new initiative to abolish nuclear weapons. Several folks have asked for transcripts of the two-minute statements we made at the press conference (via phone). So we threw mine together here:

Forgive the background noise

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by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: Josh_Rowley

05-06-2009 @ 1:03pm

Thanks for this good word and good work.

by: SisterMarie

05-06-2009 @ 2:27pm

Sorry Shane, you're going to have to do something more drastic than sleeping outside in a cardboard box. MLK did not highlight the civil right struggle by sleeping in a box, and those of my generation who protested the war in Vietnam showed a little more moxie that the box protest.

If you're serious about this, you need to risk jail time. I think you've already done this once. Our country keeps making the same dumb mistakes, and now the absence of the draft maintains a huge gulf between those who daily risk their lives and those who demonstrate their courage by sleeping in a box.

by: TheBig3

05-06-2009 @ 2:54pm

This sounds great... I just visited the website for the Two Futures Project and have this question. Why did the leadership feel the need for a "faith statement?" Can't we agree that if you say that you're a Christian, that's great?? There were several parts of the faith statement that I didn't agree with. What does that mean for people like myself who can see getting involved in TFP but don't like the idea of drawing lines around our faith?

As an aside, when I was in college, I learned this definition for a feminist: "one who holds women in high esteem." It's a pretty broad definition. Can we say that a Christian is "one who holds Jesus in high esteem?"

Thanks for this good work. Despite my qualms about faith statement, I hope TFP gains traction.

http://thebig3.typepad.com

by: captainplanet

05-06-2009 @ 3:06pm

I think the cardboard box reference was more anecdotal. Just something they were doing at the campus he was recently at. Not something related to this new project specifically.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 3:20pm

"Who would Jesus bomb?" Is that a rhetorical question? It is a difficult one, but the expected answer is probably not the biblical one.

Here is a list of those that Jesus would (and did bomb):
The Amalekites
The Canaanites
The Egyptians
The Amorites
The Edomites
The Babylonians
In general, all the nations that stood against the God of Israel, YHWH, the pre-incarnate Christ.

The question as put, is loaded. and straw-man - bait and switch argumentation at its best. It completely ignores the testimony of Scripture. During the brief 33 years of Jesus sojourn on the earth as the incarnate Son of God, his message and missions were temporarily modified for a specific purpose. But the testimony of history past - and the promise of history future, indicates that Jesus' approach from AD 27-33 (depending on your chronology) was the exception, not the rule, in how God deals with those who have rejected Him.

by: squeaky

05-06-2009 @ 4:04pm

Seems to me you contradict yourself. If Jesus' ministry was vastly different from the interpretation of Scripture you just laid out (you said His ministry was the exception, not the rule), then in fact, Jesus still wouldn't bomb who you claim He would bomb.

You also seem to be arguing that since Jesus' ministry is the exception, we can therefore disregard His ministry and message. He fulfilled the law, however, and that act alone set us all free from the apparent condemnation and judgment in the OT.

Alternatively, perhaps the OT should be viewed through the light of Christ rather than the other way around. Given that Jesus came to Earth to put a face and personality to God so we can see Who He really is, it would seem the former might be the better approach.

The condemnation you see in the Bible is not what I see when I look at Jesus.

And even if the OT judgment were still in effect, where does God give us the mandate to mete out that judgment? We cannot judge perfectly, and thus don't have the authority to do so, unless given to us, and it has not been.

by: Eric77

05-06-2009 @ 4:54pm

I suppose it is because people can define being a Christian in different ways. Some define it similar to how it's defined on their website and others define it merely as "one who holds Jesus in high esteem".

In their efforts to draw more Christians to their cause, the founders of Two Futures probably want to assure other Christians who may not trust the founders' Christian credentials that they, in fact, do share the same Christian convictions. It makes sense to me.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 5:20pm

My point was that Jesus / God carries out his will in various ways - and that the "turn the other cheek" message of Jesus is only part of the picture - but is the one that is primarily or exclusively being promoted - to the point that with regard to the future, preterists like Bell and McLaren and others, say that Jesus can't return as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah to mete out judgment because it is against his character and message. That characterization of Jesus is flawed because it only focuses on a very small portion of Jesus' actions in history and declares that as normative and exclusively the way God works. My point is that Jesus' actions prior to His incarnation and those that will take place in fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel and Revelation clearly show that there is more to the way he acts than what he did in the Gospels. I'm not suggesting that we are perfect - or can perfectly mete out justice - however, we can see principles that indicate that part of protecting the relatively innocent might require force against the wicked. It is one thing if I turn the other cheek if I am attacked. It is quite another if I have the ability to stop someone from raping my daughter. I may turn my own cheek, but I have the right and responsibility to protect someone else's in the face of evil.

There is no contradiction in my understanding - they are complementary - as opposed to deficient. Mine takes into account the witness of both the NT and OT - while the "meek Jesus" view picks and chooses only portions of the Gospels alone - and doesn't even account for Jesus' words that he came "not to bring peace, but a sword."

I'm not advocating violence. Nor am I advocating attempts to establish a theocracy - which can't happen until Christ is sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem. I am simply suggesting that we not take away from Scripture - for which there are ample warnings.

by: Josh_Rowley

05-06-2009 @ 1:03pm

Thanks for this good word and good work.

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: richardaberdeen

12-05-2009 @ 6:53am

You might find our CD and video below of interest...WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB? - video
http://freedomtracks.com/videowhowouldjesusbomb... Who Would Jesus Bomb? - Nashville Session Players Free 20-Song CD
http://freedomtracks.com/anw.html
Thank You, Sincerely
Richard Aberdeen
www.FreedomTracks.com

by: SisterMarie

05-06-2009 @ 2:27pm

Sorry Shane, you're going to have to do something more drastic than sleeping outside in a cardboard box. MLK did not highlight the civil right struggle by sleeping in a box, and those of my generation who protested the war in Vietnam showed a little more moxie that the box protest.

If you're serious about this, you need to risk jail time. I think you've already done this once. Our country keeps making the same dumb mistakes, and now the absence of the draft maintains a huge gulf between those who daily risk their lives and those who demonstrate their courage by sleeping in a box.

by: TylerWS

05-06-2009 @ 7:03pm

Thanks for the love, Shane! Interested parties can check out Shane's comments -- as well as our other speakers, here:
http://faithinpubliclife.org/content/feature/fa...

Tyler @2FP

by: TheBig3

05-06-2009 @ 2:54pm

This sounds great... I just visited the website for the Two Futures Project and have this question. Why did the leadership feel the need for a "faith statement?" Can't we agree that if you say that you're a Christian, that's great?? There were several parts of the faith statement that I didn't agree with. What does that mean for people like myself who can see getting involved in TFP but don't like the idea of drawing lines around our faith?

As an aside, when I was in college, I learned this definition for a feminist: "one who holds women in high esteem." It's a pretty broad definition. Can we say that a Christian is "one who holds Jesus in high esteem?"

Thanks for this good work. Despite my qualms about faith statement, I hope TFP gains traction.

http://thebig3.typepad.com

by: talitha_koum

05-06-2009 @ 8:04pm

point taken, but I think sleeping outside in a cardboard box IS pretty drastic for young college students in America, who don't have to do anything at all to empathise with those less privileged if they don't want to. Let's encourage them rather than criticise the first steps. Sleeping in a box may be the most courageous thing they do all year - and that's ok. At least they are doing SOMETHING. Way better than the alternative.

by: captainplanet

05-06-2009 @ 3:06pm

I think the cardboard box reference was more anecdotal. Just something they were doing at the campus he was recently at. Not something related to this new project specifically.

by: letjusticerolldown

05-06-2009 @ 8:15pm

To me your comment sounds very 'ungenerous.' Is that what you want?

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 3:20pm

"Who would Jesus bomb?" Is that a rhetorical question? It is a difficult one, but the expected answer is probably not the biblical one.

Here is a list of those that Jesus would (and did bomb):
The Amalekites
The Canaanites
The Egyptians
The Amorites
The Edomites
The Babylonians
In general, all the nations that stood against the God of Israel, YHWH, the pre-incarnate Christ.

The question as put, is loaded. and straw-man - bait and switch argumentation at its best. It completely ignores the testimony of Scripture. During the brief 33 years of Jesus sojourn on the earth as the incarnate Son of God, his message and missions were temporarily modified for a specific purpose. But the testimony of history past - and the promise of history future, indicates that Jesus' approach from AD 27-33 (depending on your chronology) was the exception, not the rule, in how God deals with those who have rejected Him.

by: 1Grace

05-06-2009 @ 10:51pm

I agree with you the matter of protest of course is wrong to criticize . But what i disagree with the broadbrush of the scope of the protests. Is it necessary to bring in the debate of the use of the atomic bomb and whether it is more Jesus like if we invaded Japan at the cost of more American lives to end the World War ? Or perhaps a more specfic protest to stop the stupidity of starting world wars may have been perhaps more beneficial to joining Christians together in solidarity ? Do we ridicule the necessity of having a strong military , or should we perhaps be more specfic in our dialogue and promotion of peace through diplomatic and example of our own conduct .

No one will attack you usually because you are too well qualified to protect yourself . So actually bullies . What we need to make sure is we are never the bully.

Strong military is not the problem , its the problem we have in our hearts from my perspective.

by: squeaky

05-06-2009 @ 4:04pm

Seems to me you contradict yourself. If Jesus' ministry was vastly different from the interpretation of Scripture you just laid out (you said His ministry was the exception, not the rule), then in fact, Jesus still wouldn't bomb who you claim He would bomb.

You also seem to be arguing that since Jesus' ministry is the exception, we can therefore disregard His ministry and message. He fulfilled the law, however, and that act alone set us all free from the apparent condemnation and judgment in the OT.

Alternatively, perhaps the OT should be viewed through the light of Christ rather than the other way around. Given that Jesus came to Earth to put a face and personality to God so we can see Who He really is, it would seem the former might be the better approach.

The condemnation you see in the Bible is not what I see when I look at Jesus.

And even if the OT judgment were still in effect, where does God give us the mandate to mete out that judgment? We cannot judge perfectly, and thus don't have the authority to do so, unless given to us, and it has not been.

by: Eric77

05-06-2009 @ 4:54pm

I suppose it is because people can define being a Christian in different ways. Some define it similar to how it's defined on their website and others define it merely as "one who holds Jesus in high esteem".

In their efforts to draw more Christians to their cause, the founders of Two Futures probably want to assure other Christians who may not trust the founders' Christian credentials that they, in fact, do share the same Christian convictions. It makes sense to me.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 5:20pm

My point was that Jesus / God carries out his will in various ways - and that the "turn the other cheek" message of Jesus is only part of the picture - but is the one that is primarily or exclusively being promoted - to the point that with regard to the future, preterists like Bell and McLaren and others, say that Jesus can't return as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah to mete out judgment because it is against his character and message. That characterization of Jesus is flawed because it only focuses on a very small portion of Jesus' actions in history and declares that as normative and exclusively the way God works. My point is that Jesus' actions prior to His incarnation and those that will take place in fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel and Revelation clearly show that there is more to the way he acts than what he did in the Gospels. I'm not suggesting that we are perfect - or can perfectly mete out justice - however, we can see principles that indicate that part of protecting the relatively innocent might require force against the wicked. It is one thing if I turn the other cheek if I am attacked. It is quite another if I have the ability to stop someone from raping my daughter. I may turn my own cheek, but I have the right and responsibility to protect someone else's in the face of evil.

There is no contradiction in my understanding - they are complementary - as opposed to deficient. Mine takes into account the witness of both the NT and OT - while the "meek Jesus" view picks and chooses only portions of the Gospels alone - and doesn't even account for Jesus' words that he came "not to bring peace, but a sword."

I'm not advocating violence. Nor am I advocating attempts to establish a theocracy - which can't happen until Christ is sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem. I am simply suggesting that we not take away from Scripture - for which there are ample warnings.

by: JamesM

05-07-2009 @ 4:25pm

Okay. Thanks. Time to look for another god. I don't want any part of the one you described.

by: TylerWS

05-06-2009 @ 7:03pm

Thanks for the love, Shane! Interested parties can check out Shane's comments -- as well as our other speakers, here:
http://faithinpubliclife.org/content/feature/fa...

Tyler @2FP

by: talitha_koum

05-06-2009 @ 8:04pm

point taken, but I think sleeping outside in a cardboard box IS pretty drastic for young college students in America, who don't have to do anything at all to empathise with those less privileged if they don't want to. Let's encourage them rather than criticise the first steps. Sleeping in a box may be the most courageous thing they do all year - and that's ok. At least they are doing SOMETHING. Way better than the alternative.

by: letjusticerolldown

05-06-2009 @ 8:15pm

To me your comment sounds very 'ungenerous.' Is that what you want?

by: 1Grace

05-06-2009 @ 10:51pm

I agree with you the matter of protest of course is wrong to criticize . But what i disagree with the broadbrush of the scope of the protests. Is it necessary to bring in the debate of the use of the atomic bomb and whether it is more Jesus like if we invaded Japan at the cost of more American lives to end the World War ? Or perhaps a more specfic protest to stop the stupidity of starting world wars may have been perhaps more beneficial to joining Christians together in solidarity ? Do we ridicule the necessity of having a strong military , or should we perhaps be more specfic in our dialogue and promotion of peace through diplomatic and example of our own conduct .

No one will attack you usually because you are too well qualified to protect yourself . So actually bullies . What we need to make sure is we are never the bully.

Strong military is not the problem , its the problem we have in our hearts from my perspective.

by: canucklehead

05-07-2009 @ 10:47pm

Whew, I'm feeling better already!!!! BOMBS AWAY!! YEE-HAH!!

I MAY NEVER MARCH IN THE INFANTRY, RIDE IN THE CAVALRY, SHOOT THE ARTILLERY; I MAY NEVER FLY O'ER THE ENEMY, BUT I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! (repeat**)

ALTOGETHER NOW

I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAH! (to repeat**) - and repeat ad nauseum until Squeaky tires of squeezin' the accordion YEE-HAW!

by: koalamasala

05-13-2009 @ 12:06pm

Hello, Sister Marie,

Actually, Shane has risked both jail time AND his life by going to Iraq with the Christian Peacemakers (see his book "The Irresistible Revolution").

And I agree with talitha koum, that college students sleeping outside in cardboard boxes -is- meaningful, as it may mean a life of service and compassion to those living in cardboard boxes on regular basis (esp. up North!).

by: JamesM

05-07-2009 @ 4:25pm

Okay. Thanks. Time to look for another god. I don't want any part of the one you described.

by: JOSHUA28

11-19-2009 @ 3:56pm

SHANE, KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, TRUTH AND ULTIMATE JOY ALL IN LOVE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. BE CAREFUL TO REMEMBER YOUR OWN WORDS TO ME, THIS WORLD, THIS USA, THIS COUNTRY OF OURS IS A SINKING SHIP, JUST SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN AND BE A "CATCHER IN THE RYE" AS WE SPEAK OF. JESUS IS COMING SOON IN THE FLESH AGAIN. REMEMBER WHOM THIS USA SERVERS? MOLOCH, RAY? LUCIFER? WHAT DID SATAN SAY TO JESUS IN THE DESERT? WE ALL KNOW HE OWNS THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT THE FREEMASONS,ILLUMINATI,MAMMON! YOU CAN NOT SERVE BOTH GOD AND MOMMNON (MONEY) THUS SAITH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. LOVE BUT BE WARY THAT THE DEVIL IS ROAMING CLOSE TO US NOW.. THE WICCA AND SATANISIM OCCULT WHITCHCRAFT IS GROWING STRONGER BY THE DAY. WE ARE LIVING IN THE END TIMES PEOPLE PLEASE OPEN YOUR EARS TO HEAR AND EYES TO SEE THE SPIRITS AND ANGELS ALL AROUND YOU NOW! NOT ALL ARE BAD, NOT ALL ARE GOOD, CLING CLOSE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF CHRIST OH PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH. RE-READ THE BOOK OF REVELATION AND READ THE SIX AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES LITERALLY LOOK AT THE KEY AND SEALS OF KING SOLOMON AND WHAT DOES THE STAR OF DAVID HAVE TO DO WITH ALEISTER CRLOWLEY ???? I LOVE YOU ALL AND LET US BASK IN THE GLORY THAT IS OUR GOD YAHWEH WHOM ONE AND ONLY SON IS JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH! LET THE PROPHETS COME FORTH AND SPEAK...........

by: SisterMarie

05-08-2009 @ 11:55am

Wow. I actually know that song. Citing it does reveal something about your age.

by: JOSHUA28

11-19-2009 @ 3:56pm

SHANE, KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, TRUTH AND ULTIMATE JOY ALL IN LOVE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. BE CAREFUL TO REMEMBER YOUR OWN WORDS TO ME, THIS WORLD, THIS USA, THIS COUNTRY OF OURS IS A SINKING SHIP, JUST SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN AND BE A "CATCHER IN THE RYE" AS WE SPEAK OF. JESUS IS COMING SOON IN THE FLESH AGAIN. REMEMBER WHOM THIS USA SERVERS? MOLOCH, RAY? LUCIFER? WHAT DID SATAN SAY TO JESUS IN THE DESERT? WE ALL KNOW HE OWNS THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT THE FREEMASONS,ILLUMINATI,MAMMON! YOU CAN NOT SERVE BOTH GOD AND MOMMNON (MONEY) THUS SAITH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. LOVE BUT BE WARY THAT THE DEVIL IS ROAMING CLOSE TO US NOW.. THE WICCA AND SATANISIM OCCULT WHITCHCRAFT IS GROWING STRONGER BY THE DAY. WE ARE LIVING IN THE END TIMES PEOPLE PLEASE OPEN YOUR EARS TO HEAR AND EYES TO SEE THE SPIRITS AND ANGELS ALL AROUND YOU NOW! NOT ALL ARE BAD, NOT ALL ARE GOOD, CLING CLOSE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF CHRIST OH PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH. RE-READ THE BOOK OF REVELATION AND READ THE SIX AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES LITERALLY LOOK AT THE KEY AND SEALS OF KING SOLOMON AND WHAT DOES THE STAR OF DAVID HAVE TO DO WITH ALEISTER CRLOWLEY ???? I LOVE YOU ALL AND LET US BASK IN THE GLORY THAT IS OUR GOD YAHWEH WHOM ONE AND ONLY SON IS JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH! LET THE PROPHETS COME FORTH AND SPEAK...........

by: canucklehead

05-07-2009 @ 10:47pm

Whew, I'm feeling better already!!!! BOMBS AWAY!! YEE-HAH!!

I MAY NEVER MARCH IN THE INFANTRY, RIDE IN THE CAVALRY, SHOOT THE ARTILLERY; I MAY NEVER FLY O'ER THE ENEMY, BUT I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! (repeat**)

ALTOGETHER NOW

I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAH! (to repeat**) - and repeat ad nauseum until Squeaky tires of squeezin' the accordion YEE-HAW!

by: koalamasala

05-13-2009 @ 12:06pm

Hello, Sister Marie,

Actually, Shane has risked both jail time AND his life by going to Iraq with the Christian Peacemakers (see his book "The Irresistible Revolution").

And I agree with talitha koum, that college students sleeping outside in cardboard boxes -is- meaningful, as it may mean a life of service and compassion to those living in cardboard boxes on regular basis (esp. up North!).

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: SisterMarie

05-08-2009 @ 11:55am

Wow. I actually know that song. Citing it does reveal something about your age.

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: richardaberdeen

12-05-2009 @ 6:53am

You might find our CD and video below of interest...WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB? - video
http://freedomtracks.com/videowhowouldjesusbomb... Who Would Jesus Bomb? - Nashville Session Players Free 20-Song CD
http://freedomtracks.com/anw.html
Thank You, Sincerely
Richard Aberdeen
www.FreedomTracks.com

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: Josh_Rowley

05-06-2009 @ 1:03pm

Thanks for this good word and good work.

by: Josh_Rowley

05-06-2009 @ 1:03pm

Thanks for this good word and good work.

by: SisterMarie

05-06-2009 @ 2:27pm

Sorry Shane, you're going to have to do something more drastic than sleeping outside in a cardboard box. MLK did not highlight the civil right struggle by sleeping in a box, and those of my generation who protested the war in Vietnam showed a little more moxie that the box protest.

If you're serious about this, you need to risk jail time. I think you've already done this once. Our country keeps making the same dumb mistakes, and now the absence of the draft maintains a huge gulf between those who daily risk their lives and those who demonstrate their courage by sleeping in a box.

by: SisterMarie

05-06-2009 @ 2:27pm

Sorry Shane, you're going to have to do something more drastic than sleeping outside in a cardboard box. MLK did not highlight the civil right struggle by sleeping in a box, and those of my generation who protested the war in Vietnam showed a little more moxie that the box protest.

If you're serious about this, you need to risk jail time. I think you've already done this once. Our country keeps making the same dumb mistakes, and now the absence of the draft maintains a huge gulf between those who daily risk their lives and those who demonstrate their courage by sleeping in a box.

by: TheBig3

05-06-2009 @ 2:54pm

This sounds great... I just visited the website for the Two Futures Project and have this question. Why did the leadership feel the need for a "faith statement?" Can't we agree that if you say that you're a Christian, that's great?? There were several parts of the faith statement that I didn't agree with. What does that mean for people like myself who can see getting involved in TFP but don't like the idea of drawing lines around our faith?

As an aside, when I was in college, I learned this definition for a feminist: "one who holds women in high esteem." It's a pretty broad definition. Can we say that a Christian is "one who holds Jesus in high esteem?"

Thanks for this good work. Despite my qualms about faith statement, I hope TFP gains traction.

http://thebig3.typepad.com

by: TheBig3

05-06-2009 @ 2:54pm

This sounds great... I just visited the website for the Two Futures Project and have this question. Why did the leadership feel the need for a "faith statement?" Can't we agree that if you say that you're a Christian, that's great?? There were several parts of the faith statement that I didn't agree with. What does that mean for people like myself who can see getting involved in TFP but don't like the idea of drawing lines around our faith?

As an aside, when I was in college, I learned this definition for a feminist: "one who holds women in high esteem." It's a pretty broad definition. Can we say that a Christian is "one who holds Jesus in high esteem?"

Thanks for this good work. Despite my qualms about faith statement, I hope TFP gains traction.

http://thebig3.typepad.com

by: captainplanet

05-06-2009 @ 3:06pm

I think the cardboard box reference was more anecdotal. Just something they were doing at the campus he was recently at. Not something related to this new project specifically.

by: captainplanet

05-06-2009 @ 3:06pm

I think the cardboard box reference was more anecdotal. Just something they were doing at the campus he was recently at. Not something related to this new project specifically.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 3:20pm

"Who would Jesus bomb?" Is that a rhetorical question? It is a difficult one, but the expected answer is probably not the biblical one.

Here is a list of those that Jesus would (and did bomb):
The Amalekites
The Canaanites
The Egyptians
The Amorites
The Edomites
The Babylonians
In general, all the nations that stood against the God of Israel, YHWH, the pre-incarnate Christ.

The question as put, is loaded. and straw-man - bait and switch argumentation at its best. It completely ignores the testimony of Scripture. During the brief 33 years of Jesus sojourn on the earth as the incarnate Son of God, his message and missions were temporarily modified for a specific purpose. But the testimony of history past - and the promise of history future, indicates that Jesus' approach from AD 27-33 (depending on your chronology) was the exception, not the rule, in how God deals with those who have rejected Him.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 3:20pm

"Who would Jesus bomb?" Is that a rhetorical question? It is a difficult one, but the expected answer is probably not the biblical one.

Here is a list of those that Jesus would (and did bomb):
The Amalekites
The Canaanites
The Egyptians
The Amorites
The Edomites
The Babylonians
In general, all the nations that stood against the God of Israel, YHWH, the pre-incarnate Christ.

The question as put, is loaded. and straw-man - bait and switch argumentation at its best. It completely ignores the testimony of Scripture. During the brief 33 years of Jesus sojourn on the earth as the incarnate Son of God, his message and missions were temporarily modified for a specific purpose. But the testimony of history past - and the promise of history future, indicates that Jesus' approach from AD 27-33 (depending on your chronology) was the exception, not the rule, in how God deals with those who have rejected Him.

by: squeaky

05-06-2009 @ 4:04pm

Seems to me you contradict yourself. If Jesus' ministry was vastly different from the interpretation of Scripture you just laid out (you said His ministry was the exception, not the rule), then in fact, Jesus still wouldn't bomb who you claim He would bomb.

You also seem to be arguing that since Jesus' ministry is the exception, we can therefore disregard His ministry and message. He fulfilled the law, however, and that act alone set us all free from the apparent condemnation and judgment in the OT.

Alternatively, perhaps the OT should be viewed through the light of Christ rather than the other way around. Given that Jesus came to Earth to put a face and personality to God so we can see Who He really is, it would seem the former might be the better approach.

The condemnation you see in the Bible is not what I see when I look at Jesus.

And even if the OT judgment were still in effect, where does God give us the mandate to mete out that judgment? We cannot judge perfectly, and thus don't have the authority to do so, unless given to us, and it has not been.

by: squeaky

05-06-2009 @ 4:04pm

Seems to me you contradict yourself. If Jesus' ministry was vastly different from the interpretation of Scripture you just laid out (you said His ministry was the exception, not the rule), then in fact, Jesus still wouldn't bomb who you claim He would bomb.

You also seem to be arguing that since Jesus' ministry is the exception, we can therefore disregard His ministry and message. He fulfilled the law, however, and that act alone set us all free from the apparent condemnation and judgment in the OT.

Alternatively, perhaps the OT should be viewed through the light of Christ rather than the other way around. Given that Jesus came to Earth to put a face and personality to God so we can see Who He really is, it would seem the former might be the better approach.

The condemnation you see in the Bible is not what I see when I look at Jesus.

And even if the OT judgment were still in effect, where does God give us the mandate to mete out that judgment? We cannot judge perfectly, and thus don't have the authority to do so, unless given to us, and it has not been.

by: Eric77

05-06-2009 @ 4:54pm

I suppose it is because people can define being a Christian in different ways. Some define it similar to how it's defined on their website and others define it merely as "one who holds Jesus in high esteem".

In their efforts to draw more Christians to their cause, the founders of Two Futures probably want to assure other Christians who may not trust the founders' Christian credentials that they, in fact, do share the same Christian convictions. It makes sense to me.

by: Eric77

05-06-2009 @ 4:54pm

I suppose it is because people can define being a Christian in different ways. Some define it similar to how it's defined on their website and others define it merely as "one who holds Jesus in high esteem".

In their efforts to draw more Christians to their cause, the founders of Two Futures probably want to assure other Christians who may not trust the founders' Christian credentials that they, in fact, do share the same Christian convictions. It makes sense to me.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 5:20pm

My point was that Jesus / God carries out his will in various ways - and that the "turn the other cheek" message of Jesus is only part of the picture - but is the one that is primarily or exclusively being promoted - to the point that with regard to the future, preterists like Bell and McLaren and others, say that Jesus can't return as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah to mete out judgment because it is against his character and message. That characterization of Jesus is flawed because it only focuses on a very small portion of Jesus' actions in history and declares that as normative and exclusively the way God works. My point is that Jesus' actions prior to His incarnation and those that will take place in fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel and Revelation clearly show that there is more to the way he acts than what he did in the Gospels. I'm not suggesting that we are perfect - or can perfectly mete out justice - however, we can see principles that indicate that part of protecting the relatively innocent might require force against the wicked. It is one thing if I turn the other cheek if I am attacked. It is quite another if I have the ability to stop someone from raping my daughter. I may turn my own cheek, but I have the right and responsibility to protect someone else's in the face of evil.

There is no contradiction in my understanding - they are complementary - as opposed to deficient. Mine takes into account the witness of both the NT and OT - while the "meek Jesus" view picks and chooses only portions of the Gospels alone - and doesn't even account for Jesus' words that he came "not to bring peace, but a sword."

I'm not advocating violence. Nor am I advocating attempts to establish a theocracy - which can't happen until Christ is sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem. I am simply suggesting that we not take away from Scripture - for which there are ample warnings.

by: djames_abi

05-06-2009 @ 5:20pm

My point was that Jesus / God carries out his will in various ways - and that the "turn the other cheek" message of Jesus is only part of the picture - but is the one that is primarily or exclusively being promoted - to the point that with regard to the future, preterists like Bell and McLaren and others, say that Jesus can't return as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah to mete out judgment because it is against his character and message. That characterization of Jesus is flawed because it only focuses on a very small portion of Jesus' actions in history and declares that as normative and exclusively the way God works. My point is that Jesus' actions prior to His incarnation and those that will take place in fulfillment of prophecy in Daniel and Revelation clearly show that there is more to the way he acts than what he did in the Gospels. I'm not suggesting that we are perfect - or can perfectly mete out justice - however, we can see principles that indicate that part of protecting the relatively innocent might require force against the wicked. It is one thing if I turn the other cheek if I am attacked. It is quite another if I have the ability to stop someone from raping my daughter. I may turn my own cheek, but I have the right and responsibility to protect someone else's in the face of evil.

There is no contradiction in my understanding - they are complementary - as opposed to deficient. Mine takes into account the witness of both the NT and OT - while the "meek Jesus" view picks and chooses only portions of the Gospels alone - and doesn't even account for Jesus' words that he came "not to bring peace, but a sword."

I'm not advocating violence. Nor am I advocating attempts to establish a theocracy - which can't happen until Christ is sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem. I am simply suggesting that we not take away from Scripture - for which there are ample warnings.

by: TylerWS

05-06-2009 @ 7:03pm

Thanks for the love, Shane! Interested parties can check out Shane's comments -- as well as our other speakers, here:
http://faithinpubliclife.org/content/feature/fa...

Tyler @2FP

by: TylerWS

05-06-2009 @ 7:03pm

Thanks for the love, Shane! Interested parties can check out Shane's comments -- as well as our other speakers, here:
http://faithinpubliclife.org/content/feature/fa...

Tyler @2FP

by: talitha_koum

05-06-2009 @ 8:04pm

point taken, but I think sleeping outside in a cardboard box IS pretty drastic for young college students in America, who don't have to do anything at all to empathise with those less privileged if they don't want to. Let's encourage them rather than criticise the first steps. Sleeping in a box may be the most courageous thing they do all year - and that's ok. At least they are doing SOMETHING. Way better than the alternative.

by: talitha_koum

05-06-2009 @ 8:04pm

point taken, but I think sleeping outside in a cardboard box IS pretty drastic for young college students in America, who don't have to do anything at all to empathise with those less privileged if they don't want to. Let's encourage them rather than criticise the first steps. Sleeping in a box may be the most courageous thing they do all year - and that's ok. At least they are doing SOMETHING. Way better than the alternative.

by: letjusticerolldown

05-06-2009 @ 8:15pm

To me your comment sounds very 'ungenerous.' Is that what you want?

by: letjusticerolldown

05-06-2009 @ 8:15pm

To me your comment sounds very 'ungenerous.' Is that what you want?

by: 1Grace

05-06-2009 @ 10:51pm

I agree with you the matter of protest of course is wrong to criticize . But what i disagree with the broadbrush of the scope of the protests. Is it necessary to bring in the debate of the use of the atomic bomb and whether it is more Jesus like if we invaded Japan at the cost of more American lives to end the World War ? Or perhaps a more specfic protest to stop the stupidity of starting world wars may have been perhaps more beneficial to joining Christians together in solidarity ? Do we ridicule the necessity of having a strong military , or should we perhaps be more specfic in our dialogue and promotion of peace through diplomatic and example of our own conduct .

No one will attack you usually because you are too well qualified to protect yourself . So actually bullies . What we need to make sure is we are never the bully.

Strong military is not the problem , its the problem we have in our hearts from my perspective.

by: 1Grace

05-06-2009 @ 10:51pm

I agree with you the matter of protest of course is wrong to criticize . But what i disagree with the broadbrush of the scope of the protests. Is it necessary to bring in the debate of the use of the atomic bomb and whether it is more Jesus like if we invaded Japan at the cost of more American lives to end the World War ? Or perhaps a more specfic protest to stop the stupidity of starting world wars may have been perhaps more beneficial to joining Christians together in solidarity ? Do we ridicule the necessity of having a strong military , or should we perhaps be more specfic in our dialogue and promotion of peace through diplomatic and example of our own conduct .

No one will attack you usually because you are too well qualified to protect yourself . So actually bullies . What we need to make sure is we are never the bully.

Strong military is not the problem , its the problem we have in our hearts from my perspective.

by: JamesM

05-07-2009 @ 4:25pm

Okay. Thanks. Time to look for another god. I don't want any part of the one you described.

by: JamesM

05-07-2009 @ 4:25pm

Okay. Thanks. Time to look for another god. I don't want any part of the one you described.

by: canucklehead

05-07-2009 @ 10:47pm

Whew, I'm feeling better already!!!! BOMBS AWAY!! YEE-HAH!!

I MAY NEVER MARCH IN THE INFANTRY, RIDE IN THE CAVALRY, SHOOT THE ARTILLERY; I MAY NEVER FLY O'ER THE ENEMY, BUT I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! (repeat**)

ALTOGETHER NOW

I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAH! (to repeat**) - and repeat ad nauseum until Squeaky tires of squeezin' the accordion YEE-HAW!

by: canucklehead

05-07-2009 @ 10:47pm

Whew, I'm feeling better already!!!! BOMBS AWAY!! YEE-HAH!!

I MAY NEVER MARCH IN THE INFANTRY, RIDE IN THE CAVALRY, SHOOT THE ARTILLERY; I MAY NEVER FLY O'ER THE ENEMY, BUT I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! (repeat**)

ALTOGETHER NOW

I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAW! I'Z IN THE LO-WARD'S ARMEE, YEE-HAH! (to repeat**) - and repeat ad nauseum until Squeaky tires of squeezin' the accordion YEE-HAW!

by: SisterMarie

05-08-2009 @ 11:55am

Wow. I actually know that song. Citing it does reveal something about your age.

by: SisterMarie

05-08-2009 @ 11:55am

Wow. I actually know that song. Citing it does reveal something about your age.

by: koalamasala

05-13-2009 @ 12:06pm

Hello, Sister Marie,

Actually, Shane has risked both jail time AND his life by going to Iraq with the Christian Peacemakers (see his book "The Irresistible Revolution").

And I agree with talitha koum, that college students sleeping outside in cardboard boxes -is- meaningful, as it may mean a life of service and compassion to those living in cardboard boxes on regular basis (esp. up North!).

by: koalamasala

05-13-2009 @ 12:06pm

Hello, Sister Marie,

Actually, Shane has risked both jail time AND his life by going to Iraq with the Christian Peacemakers (see his book "The Irresistible Revolution").

And I agree with talitha koum, that college students sleeping outside in cardboard boxes -is- meaningful, as it may mean a life of service and compassion to those living in cardboard boxes on regular basis (esp. up North!).

by: JOSHUA28

11-19-2009 @ 3:56pm

SHANE, KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, TRUTH AND ULTIMATE JOY ALL IN LOVE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. BE CAREFUL TO REMEMBER YOUR OWN WORDS TO ME, THIS WORLD, THIS USA, THIS COUNTRY OF OURS IS A SINKING SHIP, JUST SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN AND BE A "CATCHER IN THE RYE" AS WE SPEAK OF. JESUS IS COMING SOON IN THE FLESH AGAIN. REMEMBER WHOM THIS USA SERVERS? MOLOCH, RAY? LUCIFER? WHAT DID SATAN SAY TO JESUS IN THE DESERT? WE ALL KNOW HE OWNS THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT THE FREEMASONS,ILLUMINATI,MAMMON! YOU CAN NOT SERVE BOTH GOD AND MOMMNON (MONEY) THUS SAITH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. LOVE BUT BE WARY THAT THE DEVIL IS ROAMING CLOSE TO US NOW.. THE WICCA AND SATANISIM OCCULT WHITCHCRAFT IS GROWING STRONGER BY THE DAY. WE ARE LIVING IN THE END TIMES PEOPLE PLEASE OPEN YOUR EARS TO HEAR AND EYES TO SEE THE SPIRITS AND ANGELS ALL AROUND YOU NOW! NOT ALL ARE BAD, NOT ALL ARE GOOD, CLING CLOSE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF CHRIST OH PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH. RE-READ THE BOOK OF REVELATION AND READ THE SIX AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES LITERALLY LOOK AT THE KEY AND SEALS OF KING SOLOMON AND WHAT DOES THE STAR OF DAVID HAVE TO DO WITH ALEISTER CRLOWLEY ???? I LOVE YOU ALL AND LET US BASK IN THE GLORY THAT IS OUR GOD YAHWEH WHOM ONE AND ONLY SON IS JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH! LET THE PROPHETS COME FORTH AND SPEAK...........

by: JOSHUA28

11-19-2009 @ 3:56pm

SHANE, KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, TRUTH AND ULTIMATE JOY ALL IN LOVE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. BE CAREFUL TO REMEMBER YOUR OWN WORDS TO ME, THIS WORLD, THIS USA, THIS COUNTRY OF OURS IS A SINKING SHIP, JUST SAVE AS MANY AS YOU CAN AND BE A "CATCHER IN THE RYE" AS WE SPEAK OF. JESUS IS COMING SOON IN THE FLESH AGAIN. REMEMBER WHOM THIS USA SERVERS? MOLOCH, RAY? LUCIFER? WHAT DID SATAN SAY TO JESUS IN THE DESERT? WE ALL KNOW HE OWNS THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT THE FREEMASONS,ILLUMINATI,MAMMON! YOU CAN NOT SERVE BOTH GOD AND MOMMNON (MONEY) THUS SAITH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. LOVE BUT BE WARY THAT THE DEVIL IS ROAMING CLOSE TO US NOW.. THE WICCA AND SATANISIM OCCULT WHITCHCRAFT IS GROWING STRONGER BY THE DAY. WE ARE LIVING IN THE END TIMES PEOPLE PLEASE OPEN YOUR EARS TO HEAR AND EYES TO SEE THE SPIRITS AND ANGELS ALL AROUND YOU NOW! NOT ALL ARE BAD, NOT ALL ARE GOOD, CLING CLOSE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF CHRIST OH PEOPLE OF THE CHURCH. RE-READ THE BOOK OF REVELATION AND READ THE SIX AND SEVENTH BOOKS OF MOSES LITERALLY LOOK AT THE KEY AND SEALS OF KING SOLOMON AND WHAT DOES THE STAR OF DAVID HAVE TO DO WITH ALEISTER CRLOWLEY ???? I LOVE YOU ALL AND LET US BASK IN THE GLORY THAT IS OUR GOD YAHWEH WHOM ONE AND ONLY SON IS JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH! LET THE PROPHETS COME FORTH AND SPEAK...........

by: richardaberdeen

12-05-2009 @ 6:53am

You might find our CD and video below of interest...WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB? - video
http://freedomtracks.com/videowhowouldjesusbomb... Who Would Jesus Bomb? - Nashville Session Players Free 20-Song CD
http://freedomtracks.com/anw.html
Thank You, Sincerely
Richard Aberdeen
www.FreedomTracks.com

by: richardaberdeen

12-05-2009 @ 6:53am

You might find our CD and video below of interest...WHO WOULD JESUS BOMB? - video
http://freedomtracks.com/videowhowouldjesusbomb... Who Would Jesus Bomb? - Nashville Session Players Free 20-Song CD
http://freedomtracks.com/anw.html
Thank You, Sincerely
Richard Aberdeen
www.FreedomTracks.com

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 7:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:12pm

The answer to Shane's question, "Who would Jesus bomb?" is very simple if we simply ask another question: Who has Jesus already bombed? People are constantly raging against weapons of mass destruction, using Jesus as the focal point of their message of "peace." However, if you look at the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible it is obvious that Jesus was packing nukes long before the Manhattan Project. Sodom (where we get the term "sodomy") and Gommorah were so sold out to homosexuality that the cities had turned violent with the perversion. What did Jesus do? Did he walk down mainstreet wearing tie-dye clothes and holding a peace sign? Did he participate in civil disobedience and "peaceful" protesting? Did he bring in Abraham's family with the mission of loving their neighbors as themselves? No. As Mark Driscoll would say, he wiped out the cities with "road tar from Heaven." As the Bible clearly says in Genesis 19: 24-25, "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah - from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities - and also the vegetation in teh land." In other words, Jesus not only smoked all the people, but also all of the land and plants. That was justice. By the way, the idea of "hate the sin, love the sinner" is not biblical. I'm not saying that the United States should wipe out Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm simply answering the question Shane brought up. American cannot act as Jesus because she is imperfect. Her justice will never meet His standard. As a result, she does not have his authority to wipe out entire nations. However, she has a responsibility to protect her people and the Believers therin should strive to portray both the loving and just side of the Savior they serve. Not simply the side that's easier or more feel-good.

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...

by: hollysavage

12-06-2009 @ 9:27pm

For those who want the biblical view of justice: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/genesis/sod...