Get E-Mail Updates

God's Politics Blog

Risking Ourselves for Peace

by Logan Laituri 08-04-2009 | 6:00pm
Print
14 Comments | Login or Register to post comments

I'm a big fan of iTunesU, and I usually try to listen to informative podcasts on long drives, since I can't read and drive simultaneously. Driving through the cornfields of our central plains not too long ago, I listened as Professor Stanley Hauerwas of Duke Divinity School gave a lecture titled "The Call for the Abolition of War." About an hour into the talk, he mentioned giving a talk at the Air Force Academy in 2004, which apparently is the only military academy to have a philosophy department (go figure). He describes talking with cadets there about the Just War debate within military circles. The cadets explained to him that the most sizable discussion revolves around the honor of killing in combat.

Take Action on This Issue

Tell the Senate: Don't Cut International Aid

Please join us in telling the Senate: Protect foreign aid programs that help the poor and the needy. 

The point made was that in order to be afforded the moral legitimacy to kill in battle, one must be prepared to die by the hand of his (or, increasingly, her) opponent. Thanks to the marvels (or horror, depending upon your perspective) of our modern fighting apparatuses, however, many of our warriors never truly face the reality of being killed in battle. I am painfully reminded of the upcoming anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 64 years ago this week. How can we even attempt to claim moral authority over the deaths of not merely fellow willing combatants, but civilians?

Before I am caricatured as a self-loathing vet with an anti-American agenda, let me state unequivocally that such an honorific code applies universally. If it is not honorable to use aircraft to kill one's opponents, then both military pilots and the 9/11 hijackers are indicted. If it is not honorable to send bombs into civilian populations, then both Pentagon officials and suicide bombing planners are accountable. If we, the church, believe war is irreconcilable with the ethics of the Prince of Peace, then we share the burden of culpability. If we demand an end to war (and we must), then it should be incredibly disturbing to realize that we enjoy the fruits of its bloodied labor, not the least of which being an emotive insulation from its horrors. Hard as I try, I continue to be convicted by comments from critics that I am benefiting from the blood, sweat, and tears of such a stark minority in our society, even though I myself was one of those who shed blood, sweat, and tears (and continue to do so).

As Christians, in this week marked by the needless bloodshed of thousands in 1945, what are we doing to put an end to the madness of war? If an answer fails us, or if we think it exists solely in the realm of policy and bureaucracy, then I suggest we have much to learn from the likes of Christian Peacemaker Teams, who have been answering that challenge for over a decade now, putting their lives on the line in areas of direct conflict the world over. If the church has a problem with war (as it claims to), then we must be at least as morally strident as any airman, marine, sailor, or soldier who stand ready to die for our American principles. Ron Sider reminds us that we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it. Otherwise, he wonders, do we deserve to bear the title Christian? After all, if we are God's children, aren't we to be known as peacemakers?

Logan Laituri

Logan Laituri is an Army veteran with combatant service in Iraq during OIF II and experience with Christian Peacemaker Teams in Israel and the West Bank. He is also co-founder of a faith-based veterans assistance initiative called Centurion's Purse, which seeks to provide financial and spiritual relief to fellow service members in need. He blogs at courageouscoward.blogspot.com.

14 Comments | Login or Register to post comments
Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

Resources

Like what you're reading? Get Sojourners E-Mail updates!

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 2:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

by: 1Grace

08-04-2009 @ 9:07pm

Logan drawing similiarities between what happened in 1945 and to 9/11 /2001 to be seen similiar morally by some is your opinion shared by many , but I believe not knowing the difference will encourgage both types of mindsets to be used in the future.

One as a needed response , and one without merit . I can tell the difference and your belief encourgages one to continue and conquer.

by: meurig

08-05-2009 @ 3:50pm

OK, Gracie, so you think 2001:09:11 was a needed response to growing US imperialist domination of world politics, especially through periodic violent attacks on the inhabitants of non-compliant countries and through an unjust world trade system resulting in early deaths in the millions.

And you agree with me that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were without merit, partly because of the hundreds of thousands of deaths, partly because of the threat of global annihilation which they unleashed, and partly because the Japanese emperor was about to surrender anyway.

Or have I got that the wrong way round?

Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us.

by: darlenebatchelder

08-05-2009 @ 4:58pm

Thank you Logan for being committed to Peace. I too am a Vietnam era veteran committed to bringing Peace to my life, my community and my world. Thanks for having the courage to invite us all to be as committed to Peace as we are to war, or to the advantages that war provides us. I'm convinced that there are more benefits to Peace. However war has become such a part of our context, we are challenged to imagine a world without it. Thanks for asking us all to imagine that.

by: 1Grace

08-05-2009 @ 8:13pm

"Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us."

Some of us just look at as war is terrible. That to stop it sometimes one side needs to win to stop it . Perhaps if you were not as sarcastic your scripture of pointing on your superior Christianize might be worth a thought , better yet the scripture may have merit still , But you obviously spoke in a manner where you forgot a few other scriptures to mediate on before your reply . Hopefully anyway. But from what I have read about history , and judging not from my safe home, superior Christian belief, , from my perspective Trumen did what he thought was best in our national and world's best interest . I am not sure what I would have done , I guess it is easy to say I can be as Christian as you, but with such matters and the responsibility Truman fell into , I suggest to mock his decision under a cloud of national imperialism is a much thick for most people . In fact any people I know personally through Christ find that belief quite unorthodox . I suppose you would allow someone to rob your home and not call the police ? Is that what the scripture tells you to do ? Do you take your eye out literally also when you look at another women ?

But thats fine , perhaps your right . I just don't see the love or understanding that promotes peace in you or Logan's view. If you disagree with insulting sarcastic mannerisms with a Brother , what would you do someone bombing your home ? Sudddenly become peaceful and loving ? Sarcastically mock the reasons of their understanding and assume they have no consicence except based in their yankee nationalism or country of choice . When someone bombs a an abortion clinic we are to just say well , lets love him back.

If the belief you have is that the Japanese were getting ready to surrender , which is contrary to the plans our military had for invasion of japan and also conflicting information regarding the Japanese military preparation forces is true , then the bombing actually was a mistake . But the reason for the bombing was not , unless you believe we knew they were going to surrender . Then I assume you believe we killed innocent women and children for the heck of doing it ? Butregardless not for the reason Logan was speaking to , his is a different philosophy . The fact if Japanese were not going to surrender has no merit in his philospy , to bring it up disregards his view and tries to justify it through humanistic logic , not Bibical understanding as he claims I believe.

That if we are attacked to turn the other cheek , Japanese invasion of China and other areas to go un checked by us . Pearl harbor just to say well , time to act like Christ and return the act of dominance and violence with love . That is a taking the Bible and what Jesus was saying out of context from mine and many Christians understanding . The majority in fact , .Not saying that makes it right , just saying you need to share the same respect for the conscience of another , especially if you promoting national policy to change . The first century Christians went to their graves as martyers but that was also about denying Christ , not stopping invaders who were killing their children and women for economic or territorial gain . To me there is a difference .

, I really don't think Americans are as bad as you make them out to be . I would not say we are a Christian nation , but World War Two was a war that was bigger then most in regards to many factors . Not just freedom to self govern , but freedom to live .
Your Conscience says allow a murderer like Hitler go un restricted without force stopping him is a belief system you can have , putting that belief on others is a step up from the pro choice doctrine , its pro murder from my conscience . Your free to live that way , others will die more frequently if you force that belief on others . Evil is often stopped because of the threat of a stronger force . Bullies on playgrounds know this , human nature is not so different with tyrants who have gained control of countries. So using your standard of Love and peace , would it not be better to convince the brothers of your view , rather then lump them into ball and display them without merit in Christ and lost in some Nationalistic
stereotype .

I can't say I support even what we are doing In Afganstan right now , but I am not going to use nationalistic mumbo jumbo and lay it on the current President's feet .

Peace

I don't own a gun , I don't like guns , I hit someone in a soccer game once who was kicking a fellow teammate , that is about as much as I personally ever supported annihilation of any kind . Pacifism taken to the extent Logan does is personal integrity I admire , promoting it as a policy leads to destruction and chaos.

by: 1Grace

08-04-2009 @ 9:07pm

Logan drawing similiarities between what happened in 1945 and to 9/11 /2001 to be seen similiar morally by some is your opinion shared by many , but I believe not knowing the difference will encourgage both types of mindsets to be used in the future.

One as a needed response , and one without merit . I can tell the difference and your belief encourgages one to continue and conquer.

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 12:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

by: meurig

08-05-2009 @ 3:50pm

OK, Gracie, so you think 2001:09:11 was a needed response to growing US imperialist domination of world politics, especially through periodic violent attacks on the inhabitants of non-compliant countries and through an unjust world trade system resulting in early deaths in the millions.

And you agree with me that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were without merit, partly because of the hundreds of thousands of deaths, partly because of the threat of global annihilation which they unleashed, and partly because the Japanese emperor was about to surrender anyway.

Or have I got that the wrong way round?

Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us.

by: darlenebatchelder

08-05-2009 @ 4:58pm

Thank you Logan for being committed to Peace. I too am a Vietnam era veteran committed to bringing Peace to my life, my community and my world. Thanks for having the courage to invite us all to be as committed to Peace as we are to war, or to the advantages that war provides us. I'm convinced that there are more benefits to Peace. However war has become such a part of our context, we are challenged to imagine a world without it. Thanks for asking us all to imagine that.

by: 1Grace

08-05-2009 @ 8:13pm

"Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us."

Some of us just look at as war is terrible. That to stop it sometimes one side needs to win to stop it . Perhaps if you were not as sarcastic your scripture of pointing on your superior Christianize might be worth a thought , better yet the scripture may have merit still , But you obviously spoke in a manner where you forgot a few other scriptures to mediate on before your reply . Hopefully anyway. But from what I have read about history , and judging not from my safe home, superior Christian belief, , from my perspective Trumen did what he thought was best in our national and world's best interest . I am not sure what I would have done , I guess it is easy to say I can be as Christian as you, but with such matters and the responsibility Truman fell into , I suggest to mock his decision under a cloud of national imperialism is a much thick for most people . In fact any people I know personally through Christ find that belief quite unorthodox . I suppose you would allow someone to rob your home and not call the police ? Is that what the scripture tells you to do ? Do you take your eye out literally also when you look at another women ?

But thats fine , perhaps your right . I just don't see the love or understanding that promotes peace in you or Logan's view. If you disagree with insulting sarcastic mannerisms with a Brother , what would you do someone bombing your home ? Sudddenly become peaceful and loving ? Sarcastically mock the reasons of their understanding and assume they have no consicence except based in their yankee nationalism or country of choice . When someone bombs a an abortion clinic we are to just say well , lets love him back.

If the belief you have is that the Japanese were getting ready to surrender , which is contrary to the plans our military had for invasion of japan and also conflicting information regarding the Japanese military preparation forces is true , then the bombing actually was a mistake . But the reason for the bombing was not , unless you believe we knew they were going to surrender . Then I assume you believe we killed innocent women and children for the heck of doing it ? Butregardless not for the reason Logan was speaking to , his is a different philosophy . The fact if Japanese were not going to surrender has no merit in his philospy , to bring it up disregards his view and tries to justify it through humanistic logic , not Bibical understanding as he claims I believe.

That if we are attacked to turn the other cheek , Japanese invasion of China and other areas to go un checked by us . Pearl harbor just to say well , time to act like Christ and return the act of dominance and violence with love . That is a taking the Bible and what Jesus was saying out of context from mine and many Christians understanding . The majority in fact , .Not saying that makes it right , just saying you need to share the same respect for the conscience of another , especially if you promoting national policy to change . The first century Christians went to their graves as martyers but that was also about denying Christ , not stopping invaders who were killing their children and women for economic or territorial gain . To me there is a difference .

, I really don't think Americans are as bad as you make them out to be . I would not say we are a Christian nation , but World War Two was a war that was bigger then most in regards to many factors . Not just freedom to self govern , but freedom to live .
Your Conscience says allow a murderer like Hitler go un restricted without force stopping him is a belief system you can have , putting that belief on others is a step up from the pro choice doctrine , its pro murder from my conscience . Your free to live that way , others will die more frequently if you force that belief on others . Evil is often stopped because of the threat of a stronger force . Bullies on playgrounds know this , human nature is not so different with tyrants who have gained control of countries. So using your standard of Love and peace , would it not be better to convince the brothers of your view , rather then lump them into ball and display them without merit in Christ and lost in some Nationalistic
stereotype .

I can't say I support even what we are doing In Afganstan right now , but I am not going to use nationalistic mumbo jumbo and lay it on the current President's feet .

Peace

I don't own a gun , I don't like guns , I hit someone in a soccer game once who was kicking a fellow teammate , that is about as much as I personally ever supported annihilation of any kind . Pacifism taken to the extent Logan does is personal integrity I admire , promoting it as a policy leads to destruction and chaos.

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 12:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

by: ShazamMan

08-06-2009 @ 7:51pm

Scripture is clear that war will continue until Christ comes again. And Romans 13 clearly states that governments have the responsibility to protect their citizenry. Whether or not Christians should participate in war (or even, for
that matter, as police) is a separate issue. And that is a difficult issue,
one not easily solved. Jesus commended a military man who had faith, but
also commanded His followers not to take the sword. But to stop war? No,
that can't happen. All such attempts simply lead up to the coming of the
Antichrist, who will be a false man of peace (Daniel 8:25: "...and by peace shall destroy many").

by: ShazamMan

08-06-2009 @ 7:51pm

Scripture is clear that war will continue until Christ comes again. And Romans 13 clearly states that governments have the responsibility to protect their citizenry. Whether or not Christians should participate in war (or even, for
that matter, as police) is a separate issue. And that is a difficult issue,
one not easily solved. Jesus commended a military man who had faith, but
also commanded His followers not to take the sword. But to stop war? No,
that can't happen. All such attempts simply lead up to the coming of the
Antichrist, who will be a false man of peace (Daniel 8:25: "...and by peace shall destroy many").

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 2:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: 1Grace

08-04-2009 @ 9:07pm

Logan drawing similiarities between what happened in 1945 and to 9/11 /2001 to be seen similiar morally by some is your opinion shared by many , but I believe not knowing the difference will encourgage both types of mindsets to be used in the future.

One as a needed response , and one without merit . I can tell the difference and your belief encourgages one to continue and conquer.

by: 1Grace

08-04-2009 @ 9:07pm

Logan drawing similiarities between what happened in 1945 and to 9/11 /2001 to be seen similiar morally by some is your opinion shared by many , but I believe not knowing the difference will encourgage both types of mindsets to be used in the future.

One as a needed response , and one without merit . I can tell the difference and your belief encourgages one to continue and conquer.

by: meurig

08-05-2009 @ 3:50pm

OK, Gracie, so you think 2001:09:11 was a needed response to growing US imperialist domination of world politics, especially through periodic violent attacks on the inhabitants of non-compliant countries and through an unjust world trade system resulting in early deaths in the millions.

And you agree with me that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were without merit, partly because of the hundreds of thousands of deaths, partly because of the threat of global annihilation which they unleashed, and partly because the Japanese emperor was about to surrender anyway.

Or have I got that the wrong way round?

Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us.

by: meurig

08-05-2009 @ 3:50pm

OK, Gracie, so you think 2001:09:11 was a needed response to growing US imperialist domination of world politics, especially through periodic violent attacks on the inhabitants of non-compliant countries and through an unjust world trade system resulting in early deaths in the millions.

And you agree with me that the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings were without merit, partly because of the hundreds of thousands of deaths, partly because of the threat of global annihilation which they unleashed, and partly because the Japanese emperor was about to surrender anyway.

Or have I got that the wrong way round?

Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us.

by: darlenebatchelder

08-05-2009 @ 4:58pm

Thank you Logan for being committed to Peace. I too am a Vietnam era veteran committed to bringing Peace to my life, my community and my world. Thanks for having the courage to invite us all to be as committed to Peace as we are to war, or to the advantages that war provides us. I'm convinced that there are more benefits to Peace. However war has become such a part of our context, we are challenged to imagine a world without it. Thanks for asking us all to imagine that.

by: darlenebatchelder

08-05-2009 @ 4:58pm

Thank you Logan for being committed to Peace. I too am a Vietnam era veteran committed to bringing Peace to my life, my community and my world. Thanks for having the courage to invite us all to be as committed to Peace as we are to war, or to the advantages that war provides us. I'm convinced that there are more benefits to Peace. However war has become such a part of our context, we are challenged to imagine a world without it. Thanks for asking us all to imagine that.

by: 1Grace

08-05-2009 @ 8:13pm

"Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us."

Some of us just look at as war is terrible. That to stop it sometimes one side needs to win to stop it . Perhaps if you were not as sarcastic your scripture of pointing on your superior Christianize might be worth a thought , better yet the scripture may have merit still , But you obviously spoke in a manner where you forgot a few other scriptures to mediate on before your reply . Hopefully anyway. But from what I have read about history , and judging not from my safe home, superior Christian belief, , from my perspective Trumen did what he thought was best in our national and world's best interest . I am not sure what I would have done , I guess it is easy to say I can be as Christian as you, but with such matters and the responsibility Truman fell into , I suggest to mock his decision under a cloud of national imperialism is a much thick for most people . In fact any people I know personally through Christ find that belief quite unorthodox . I suppose you would allow someone to rob your home and not call the police ? Is that what the scripture tells you to do ? Do you take your eye out literally also when you look at another women ?

But thats fine , perhaps your right . I just don't see the love or understanding that promotes peace in you or Logan's view. If you disagree with insulting sarcastic mannerisms with a Brother , what would you do someone bombing your home ? Sudddenly become peaceful and loving ? Sarcastically mock the reasons of their understanding and assume they have no consicence except based in their yankee nationalism or country of choice . When someone bombs a an abortion clinic we are to just say well , lets love him back.

If the belief you have is that the Japanese were getting ready to surrender , which is contrary to the plans our military had for invasion of japan and also conflicting information regarding the Japanese military preparation forces is true , then the bombing actually was a mistake . But the reason for the bombing was not , unless you believe we knew they were going to surrender . Then I assume you believe we killed innocent women and children for the heck of doing it ? Butregardless not for the reason Logan was speaking to , his is a different philosophy . The fact if Japanese were not going to surrender has no merit in his philospy , to bring it up disregards his view and tries to justify it through humanistic logic , not Bibical understanding as he claims I believe.

That if we are attacked to turn the other cheek , Japanese invasion of China and other areas to go un checked by us . Pearl harbor just to say well , time to act like Christ and return the act of dominance and violence with love . That is a taking the Bible and what Jesus was saying out of context from mine and many Christians understanding . The majority in fact , .Not saying that makes it right , just saying you need to share the same respect for the conscience of another , especially if you promoting national policy to change . The first century Christians went to their graves as martyers but that was also about denying Christ , not stopping invaders who were killing their children and women for economic or territorial gain . To me there is a difference .

, I really don't think Americans are as bad as you make them out to be . I would not say we are a Christian nation , but World War Two was a war that was bigger then most in regards to many factors . Not just freedom to self govern , but freedom to live .
Your Conscience says allow a murderer like Hitler go un restricted without force stopping him is a belief system you can have , putting that belief on others is a step up from the pro choice doctrine , its pro murder from my conscience . Your free to live that way , others will die more frequently if you force that belief on others . Evil is often stopped because of the threat of a stronger force . Bullies on playgrounds know this , human nature is not so different with tyrants who have gained control of countries. So using your standard of Love and peace , would it not be better to convince the brothers of your view , rather then lump them into ball and display them without merit in Christ and lost in some Nationalistic
stereotype .

I can't say I support even what we are doing In Afganstan right now , but I am not going to use nationalistic mumbo jumbo and lay it on the current President's feet .

Peace

I don't own a gun , I don't like guns , I hit someone in a soccer game once who was kicking a fellow teammate , that is about as much as I personally ever supported annihilation of any kind . Pacifism taken to the extent Logan does is personal integrity I admire , promoting it as a policy leads to destruction and chaos.

by: 1Grace

08-05-2009 @ 8:13pm

"Some habitually look at the world through the distorting lens of militant jihadism, others through the distorting lens of US nationalism... both would do well to meditate on Matt 6:22-23. As, of course, would the rest of us."

Some of us just look at as war is terrible. That to stop it sometimes one side needs to win to stop it . Perhaps if you were not as sarcastic your scripture of pointing on your superior Christianize might be worth a thought , better yet the scripture may have merit still , But you obviously spoke in a manner where you forgot a few other scriptures to mediate on before your reply . Hopefully anyway. But from what I have read about history , and judging not from my safe home, superior Christian belief, , from my perspective Trumen did what he thought was best in our national and world's best interest . I am not sure what I would have done , I guess it is easy to say I can be as Christian as you, but with such matters and the responsibility Truman fell into , I suggest to mock his decision under a cloud of national imperialism is a much thick for most people . In fact any people I know personally through Christ find that belief quite unorthodox . I suppose you would allow someone to rob your home and not call the police ? Is that what the scripture tells you to do ? Do you take your eye out literally also when you look at another women ?

But thats fine , perhaps your right . I just don't see the love or understanding that promotes peace in you or Logan's view. If you disagree with insulting sarcastic mannerisms with a Brother , what would you do someone bombing your home ? Sudddenly become peaceful and loving ? Sarcastically mock the reasons of their understanding and assume they have no consicence except based in their yankee nationalism or country of choice . When someone bombs a an abortion clinic we are to just say well , lets love him back.

If the belief you have is that the Japanese were getting ready to surrender , which is contrary to the plans our military had for invasion of japan and also conflicting information regarding the Japanese military preparation forces is true , then the bombing actually was a mistake . But the reason for the bombing was not , unless you believe we knew they were going to surrender . Then I assume you believe we killed innocent women and children for the heck of doing it ? Butregardless not for the reason Logan was speaking to , his is a different philosophy . The fact if Japanese were not going to surrender has no merit in his philospy , to bring it up disregards his view and tries to justify it through humanistic logic , not Bibical understanding as he claims I believe.

That if we are attacked to turn the other cheek , Japanese invasion of China and other areas to go un checked by us . Pearl harbor just to say well , time to act like Christ and return the act of dominance and violence with love . That is a taking the Bible and what Jesus was saying out of context from mine and many Christians understanding . The majority in fact , .Not saying that makes it right , just saying you need to share the same respect for the conscience of another , especially if you promoting national policy to change . The first century Christians went to their graves as martyers but that was also about denying Christ , not stopping invaders who were killing their children and women for economic or territorial gain . To me there is a difference .

, I really don't think Americans are as bad as you make them out to be . I would not say we are a Christian nation , but World War Two was a war that was bigger then most in regards to many factors . Not just freedom to self govern , but freedom to live .
Your Conscience says allow a murderer like Hitler go un restricted without force stopping him is a belief system you can have , putting that belief on others is a step up from the pro choice doctrine , its pro murder from my conscience . Your free to live that way , others will die more frequently if you force that belief on others . Evil is often stopped because of the threat of a stronger force . Bullies on playgrounds know this , human nature is not so different with tyrants who have gained control of countries. So using your standard of Love and peace , would it not be better to convince the brothers of your view , rather then lump them into ball and display them without merit in Christ and lost in some Nationalistic
stereotype .

I can't say I support even what we are doing In Afganstan right now , but I am not going to use nationalistic mumbo jumbo and lay it on the current President's feet .

Peace

I don't own a gun , I don't like guns , I hit someone in a soccer game once who was kicking a fellow teammate , that is about as much as I personally ever supported annihilation of any kind . Pacifism taken to the extent Logan does is personal integrity I admire , promoting it as a policy leads to destruction and chaos.

by: ShazamMan

08-06-2009 @ 7:51pm

Scripture is clear that war will continue until Christ comes again. And Romans 13 clearly states that governments have the responsibility to protect their citizenry. Whether or not Christians should participate in war (or even, for
that matter, as police) is a separate issue. And that is a difficult issue,
one not easily solved. Jesus commended a military man who had faith, but
also commanded His followers not to take the sword. But to stop war? No,
that can't happen. All such attempts simply lead up to the coming of the
Antichrist, who will be a false man of peace (Daniel 8:25: "...and by peace shall destroy many").

by: ShazamMan

08-06-2009 @ 7:51pm

Scripture is clear that war will continue until Christ comes again. And Romans 13 clearly states that governments have the responsibility to protect their citizenry. Whether or not Christians should participate in war (or even, for
that matter, as police) is a separate issue. And that is a difficult issue,
one not easily solved. Jesus commended a military man who had faith, but
also commanded His followers not to take the sword. But to stop war? No,
that can't happen. All such attempts simply lead up to the coming of the
Antichrist, who will be a false man of peace (Daniel 8:25: "...and by peace shall destroy many").

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 12:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 12:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 2:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.

by: kgeiger61

08-13-2009 @ 2:31pm

While striving for and praying for and longing for and working for peace is good and is what every Christian should be about, I have 2 major problems with this article.

1. To equate Nagasaki & Hiroshima with 9/11 is unconscionable. 9/11 was about evil and killing for the sake of killing. N&H was done with great hesitation and done because the only other alternative was invading Japan, which would have resulted in many times more deaths, or do nothing, which would have extended the war and also taken more lives. Japan was the aggressor. We simply wanted to stop the war. We dropped leaflets warning the Japanese people. If they had believed us, instead of their deceived emperor, we would have bombed an empty city. Though the course taken could be questioned, the motivation for N&H was to save lives. It was exactly the opposite for 9/11. To equate these two is the same as saying that a police officer who shoots an armed suspect to keep them from killing a hostage is just as wrong and guilty as a serial killer.

2. This statement "we must be at least as prepared to risk our lives and our luxuries in the effort to eliminate war as readily as our military stands to proliferate it". This is ludicrous. I would venture to say there is not a single person in our military who wants to "proliferate" war. The American military is and always has been about eliminating war. While greedy, evil and selfish men exist, the only path to peace is strength. This is what Romans 13:3-4 is all about. Again, this statement is equivalent to saying that our police officers "proliferate" crime because they seek to prevent it and fight against criminals.