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Truth-telling and Responsibility in Health Care

I have said that one important moral principle for the health-care debate is truth-telling. For decades, the physical health and well-being of our country has been a proxy battle for partisan politics. Industry interests and partisan fighting are once again threatening the current opportunity for a public dialogue about what is best for our health-care system. What we need is an honest and fair debate with good information, not sabotage of reform with half-truths and misinformation.

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Yet in recent weeks, conservative radio ads have claimed that health-care reform will kill the elderly (it won't), that it will include federal funding for abortion (it doesn't), and that it is a socialist takeover of the health-care system (it isn't). The organizations promoting these claims, including some Religious Right groups, are either badly misinformed, or they are deliberately distorting reality.

A particularly egregious example is an ad that the Family Research Council has run in selected states. It depicts an elderly man and his wife sitting at their kitchen table. He turns to his wife and says, "They won't pay for my surgery. What are we going to do?" He continues, "and to think that Planned Parenthood is included in the government-run health-care plan and spending tax dollars on abortion. They won't pay for my surgery, but we're forced to pay for abortion."

These kinds of ads should be stopped. They do not contribute to the debate that is needed to ensure that all Americans have access to quality, affordable health care. It is rather exactly the kind of misinformation campaign that could destroy needed reform. We should all denounce these ads and urge that the debate be about the real issues.

President Obama said, "I think we also have a tradition of, in this town, historically, of not financing abortions as part of government-funded health care. Rather than wade into that issue at this point, I think that it's appropriate for us to figure out how to just deliver on the cost savings, and not get distracted by the abortion debate at this station." There is growing agreement from both pro-life and pro-choice that health-care reform should not include funding for abortion, but should be abortion-neutral. We will continue monitoring the ongoing legislative process to maintain that principle.

Even worse than advertising, since Congress has gone into its summer recess, organized protests are being mounted at local town hall meetings. The Washington Post reported this morning that Democrats have been met by taunts, jeers, and, in one case, an effigy. Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Tex.) was confronted by some 200 people holding signs calling him a "traitor to Texas" and a "devil to all people." And the Post cited a "'strategy memo,' issued by the Connecticut-based group Right Principles, which calls on conservatives to 'pack the hall' and 'yell out and challenge' lawmakers."

We must all say loudly and strongly that misinformation and angry mobs are not how democracy functions. While freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are certainly our rights, those rights must always be exercised with responsibility and accountability.

Health-care reform that will provide quality, affordable health care for all Americans is essential. It is a moral imperative that in a nation as prosperous as ours, no American should go without health care, especially the poorest and most vulnerable among us. Reasonable people may differ on how best to accomplish this goal, and I welcome the rigorous policy debate currently under way in the House and Senate. But in the final analysis, it should be a moral priority for all of us.

I urge you to write your member of Congress, attend local town meetings in your communities, and respectfully but strongly make these points. It is our moral obligation as people of faith.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: WitnessforPeace

08-09-2009 @ 3:39am

According to this exerpt, it would end new enrollment in private health insurance:The current version of Obamacare working its way through the House of Representatives is a 1,018-page monstrosity that no lawmaker has actually read, and that they're assuming no citizen will take the time to read either. Fortunately, you only have to wade through to page 16 to find out things aren't exactly as advertised.Under the section entitled, "Limitation on New Enrollment," it states in black and white: "Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of Obamacare's enactment.Plain English: those of you who have private coverage, you can keep it

by: lv2rd117

08-24-2009 @ 11:35pm

New World Order is coming people! Obama is progressing the antichrist system that is gathering a fast pace after the recent world economic upheaval in conjunction with Javier Solana of the European Union, Prince Charles of Wales, Queen Beatrix of Netherlands and Prince Hassan of Jordan.
It is a secret network of people who all know each others world roles and who are acting independently publicly, but are coercing a plan behind the public scene to use their powers of influence to take the world to a new level of world regulation.
You would have thought that the christian community would have discerned this but unfortunately much of the christian community is asleep on this matter. Bible Prophecy Ministries who week in, week out, publish so much information about the coming new world order are silent on this specific matter.

by: Eric77

08-10-2009 @ 4:12pm

First of all, what's the difference between a fine and a fee in this instance? It's purely semantic. The bottom line is that employers that don't provide health insurance would have to pay an extra charge. Why should they?

Second, there is no obligation to provide health insurance to your employees currently. Employers do it because they choose to for many different reasons. Those that do obviously see a benefit in it.

by: mlgreen8753

08-23-2009 @ 5:47pm

The summer months affect more than advertising.

by: Feminae

08-11-2009 @ 8:46pm

Here's a link where you can read the bill - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H....

by: Eric77

08-10-2009 @ 4:12pm

First of all, what's the difference between a fine and a fee in this instance? It's purely semantic. The bottom line is that employers that don't provide health insurance would have to pay an extra charge. Why should they?

Second, there is no obligation to provide health insurance to your employees currently. Employers do it because they choose to for many different reasons. Those that do obviously see a benefit in it.

by: mlgreen8753

08-23-2009 @ 5:47pm

The summer months affect more than advertising.

by: Feminae

08-11-2009 @ 8:46pm

Here's a link where you can read the bill - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H....

by: lv2rd117

08-24-2009 @ 11:35pm

New World Order is coming people! Obama is progressing the antichrist system that is gathering a fast pace after the recent world economic upheaval in conjunction with Javier Solana of the European Union, Prince Charles of Wales, Queen Beatrix of Netherlands and Prince Hassan of Jordan.
It is a secret network of people who all know each others world roles and who are acting independently publicly, but are coercing a plan behind the public scene to use their powers of influence to take the world to a new level of world regulation.
You would have thought that the christian community would have discerned this but unfortunately much of the christian community is asleep on this matter. Bible Prophecy Ministries who week in, week out, publish so much information about the coming new world order are silent on this specific matter.

by: lv2rd117

08-25-2009 @ 1:35am

New World Order is coming people! Obama is progressing the antichrist system that is gathering a fast pace after the recent world economic upheaval in conjunction with Javier Solana of the European Union, Prince Charles of Wales, Queen Beatrix of Netherlands and Prince Hassan of Jordan.
It is a secret network of people who all know each others world roles and who are acting independently publicly, but are coercing a plan behind the public scene to use their powers of influence to take the world to a new level of world regulation.
You would have thought that the christian community would have discerned this but unfortunately much of the christian community is asleep on this matter. Bible Prophecy Ministries who week in, week out, publish so much information about the coming new world order are silent on this specific matter.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 3:57pm

This is the ugly face of the health insurance industry, protecting their obscene profits from an extortion racket, preying on Americans.
GOP teabaggers and the anti health care Christian soldiers who are disrupting town hall meetings across America must not realize they're being used by a corrupted industry.

by: WaveTossed

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

I've heard about these organized protests. It reminds me of the sixties, when some far-left organizations arranged for groups to attend speeches given by those with whom they disagreed -- the organized groups would keep shouting and prevent the speaker from speaking. Now it's some of the far-right organizations who are using this tactic.

The senators and officials who are organizing these town-hall meetings need to run them in a very strict way. Tell anyone who interrupts, attempts to shout down, or disrupts the proceedings in any town-hall meeting will be escorted out. An organized procedure can be maintained to allow each person their turn in expressing their opinions in a civilized way, without resorting to thuggery.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

Barack Obama claimed that he would cut costs (after the CBO said this wouldn't happen), and evoked an example of a doctor unnecessarily removing a child's tonsils. That is no more or less bizarre and dishonest than the arguments Wallis chooses to tackle here.

And the bill did, and might yet again, include a provision for abortion funding. Planned Parenthood (talk about a corrupted industry) is certainly investing in the effort to make it so.

So yeah, both sides are making wild claims, just as they have for centuries in the face of controversial legislation.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 4:27pm

To show just how crazy it's gotten, I heard about one elderly man telling his congressman, "I don't want government messing with my Medicare."

by: BlueCollarTodd

08-06-2009 @ 4:53pm

I guess you have not come across an AP bit of news that reveals Obamacare does in fact cover abortion. Socialized medicine cannot avoid being rationed medicine. It is rather a perverse bit of logic that uses "compassion" as a basis to justify the murder of the unborn and to promote assisted suicide. Liberals have adopted a racially cleansed version of eugenics that justifies killing to oppressed and defenseless by appealing to poverty. The essence of eugenics.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 5:02pm

This was the same talking point used to defeat Social Security reform. Even though Bush's plan had precisely no impact on anyone over 55, the Democratic Party enlisted the help of the AARP to defeat the bill.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:21pm

Not the way I remember it, Kevin.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:25pm

Typical Kevin response to ethical questions:

"Both sides do it."

Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin?

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:36pm

I don't know what you're talking about.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:42pm

Puh-leez -- in fact, abortion has little (if anything) to do with eugenics, despite what conservatives desperate for an "in" with the African-American community, keep trumpeting. Ironically, their own policies -- and not necessarily slick marketing by Planned Parenthood -- actually make abortion an attractive option for young African-American females faced with unwanted pregnancies.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:25pm

I agree totally. There is a difference between allowing someone to exercise free speech and allowing them to disrupt honest discussions between members of Congress and their constituents.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:30pm

I believe the reference was to Bush's efforts to invest Social Security funds in the stock market. Wow! AARP didn't want America's retirement invested in the stock market, imagine. Just think what the fund would be worth today if they had... OUCH!!!

by: naekwon

08-06-2009 @ 7:21pm

I also read in a forward that Barack Obama himself would perform mandatory abortion, and then kill my grandma if this bill passed. Good point Kevin.

by: ccarl

08-06-2009 @ 8:01pm

I voted for Obama and I am for Healthcare reform - a nationalized system, however, the plan that is being proposed will directly hurt small businesses. I hear everyone going on and on about it form both sides....has anybody actually read it? You can download all 1000 pages of it and read for yourself...this is not the plan to insure America. This plan saddles all the responsibility onto the small business owner. If you have a payroll of over $250,000 (which happens to be most small businesses) and you do not buy insurance for all your employees you will be fined 8% for each employee. You will get half of that back in the way of a business credit which you can use if you make a profit. Most businesess do not make a profit...they barely make a living. We will have to lay off people because we cannot afford to pay the 8% penalty or buy the insurance for all of our employees. If you try and pass some of those costs back to the employee you will be fined! This plan will cripple small businesses which is the backbone of our economy. I envision a National plan....of the backs of business, similar to Medicare where everyone pays in and if you want something better you buy a supplement. Please people....READ THE BILL!!!!!! I am sure that after most people see everything in it they will not want this to pass!!!!!

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 8:13pm

Sounds like a bad idea.
The health care bill changes every week.
Did you read all 1000 pages?
Do you have a link?
Can you give us chapter and verse on the 8% fine for small businesses who do not insure their employees?
Is this in the bill, in a proposed amendment or something you heard someone say on tv?

Go to a town hall meeting, find out the facts, call your representatives and voice your concerns.

by: Theagle

08-06-2009 @ 8:24pm

It is sad your website is misinforming the community! The bill has too many short comings to write about here, but for one the bill gets rid of ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years. Be honest, read the entire bill and it comes out a loss for America and our free society! There are better ways to reform healthcare than just create a horrible government run plan that will replace our free choice. Instead of bloging about it read the bill, you will protest this far reaching bill that make America more like a socialist country around the world. Let us be honest about the bill and follow your rules for the site.....

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt. (Ephesians 4:29)

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 3:57pm

This is the ugly face of the health insurance industry, protecting their obscene profits from an extortion racket, preying on Americans.
GOP teabaggers and the anti health care Christian soldiers who are disrupting town hall meetings across America must not realize they're being used by a corrupted industry.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 8:31pm

The bill has too many short comings to write about here, but for one the bill gets rid of ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years.

Sounds like a bad idea, theagle.
But the health care bill changes every week.
Did you read the bill?
Do you have a link?
Can you give us chapter and verse where it eliminates "ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years"?
Is this in the bill, in a proposed amendment or something you heard someone say on tv?

by: WaveTossed

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

I've heard about these organized protests. It reminds me of the sixties, when some far-left organizations arranged for groups to attend speeches given by those with whom they disagreed -- the organized groups would keep shouting and prevent the speaker from speaking. Now it's some of the far-right organizations who are using this tactic.

The senators and officials who are organizing these town-hall meetings need to run them in a very strict way. Tell anyone who interrupts, attempts to shout down, or disrupts the proceedings in any town-hall meeting will be escorted out. An organized procedure can be maintained to allow each person their turn in expressing their opinions in a civilized way, without resorting to thuggery.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 8:45pm

"Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin? "

In this case, I would opt for ignoring it. Address the substantial arguments, and put the crazy stuff in the trash-bin.

Or, you can selectively decry the dishonest efforts of activists SOLELY when they disagree with your viewpoint. That'll make advocacy much more ethical.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

Barack Obama claimed that he would cut costs (after the CBO said this wouldn't happen), and evoked an example of a doctor unnecessarily removing a child's tonsils. That is no more or less bizarre and dishonest than the arguments Wallis chooses to tackle here.

And the bill did, and might yet again, include a provision for abortion funding. Planned Parenthood (talk about a corrupted industry) is certainly investing in the effort to make it so.

So yeah, both sides are making wild claims, just as they have for centuries in the face of controversial legislation.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 4:27pm

To show just how crazy it's gotten, I heard about one elderly man telling his congressman, "I don't want government messing with my Medicare."

by: BlueCollarTodd

08-06-2009 @ 4:53pm

I guess you have not come across an AP bit of news that reveals Obamacare does in fact cover abortion. Socialized medicine cannot avoid being rationed medicine. It is rather a perverse bit of logic that uses "compassion" as a basis to justify the murder of the unborn and to promote assisted suicide. Liberals have adopted a racially cleansed version of eugenics that justifies killing to oppressed and defenseless by appealing to poverty. The essence of eugenics.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 5:02pm

This was the same talking point used to defeat Social Security reform. Even though Bush's plan had precisely no impact on anyone over 55, the Democratic Party enlisted the help of the AARP to defeat the bill.

by: WitnessforPeace

08-06-2009 @ 11:10pm

I am worried very much by two things: 1--the haste with which the President insists we act. This leaves no time at all for the reasoned debate Wallis champions. Jim should speak up on this. 2--And saying it's abortion neutral--what exactly does that mean anyway--doesn't mean it IS in fact neutral. If Planned Parenthood is supporting it.........

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:21pm

Not the way I remember it, Kevin.

by: broncofam

08-06-2009 @ 11:11pm

I'm not thinking "teabagger" is an appropriate image in what's supposed to be a thoughtful discussion among the community of Jesus.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:25pm

Typical Kevin response to ethical questions:

"Both sides do it."

Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin?

by: ronrouintre

08-06-2009 @ 11:34pm

It is my understanding that there is no final bill to vote on, and that there is consideration to raise the qualifier to $ 500,000. Would this make it more reasonable? I also believe the 8% should not apply to small business because it is unlikely that you would provide healthcare anyway and your employees would more than likely fall into the group that would need financial help to purchase their own policy which we know is very very costly for individual, hence the need for a public plan.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:36pm

I don't know what you're talking about.

by: ccarl

08-06-2009 @ 11:39pm

It is SEC. 313 EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTONS IN LIEU OF COVEAGE page 149 of the bill. The bill has many other flaws in the bill...basically another issue at least as it is currently worded states that only residents will be penalizes 2.6% which will be deducted from the payroll by not having mandatory insurance, however, non residents are exempt....hence illegal immigrants will basically continue to have free coverage. I do believe it does need to be mandatory to make it work but for each indiividual to responsible not for small businesses to bear the responisibilty of covering everyone.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:42pm

Puh-leez -- in fact, abortion has little (if anything) to do with eugenics, despite what conservatives desperate for an "in" with the African-American community, keep trumpeting. Ironically, their own policies -- and not necessarily slick marketing by Planned Parenthood -- actually make abortion an attractive option for young African-American females faced with unwanted pregnancies.

by: Android Tablets

06-14-2011 @ 5:32pm

Very nice. Excellent writing.
Othello Tablet

by: rhappleby

08-07-2009 @ 12:38am

Juarintme,

I suggest that you read HR 3200 before making any judgements on what the program does provide.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:25pm

I agree totally. There is a difference between allowing someone to exercise free speech and allowing them to disrupt honest discussions between members of Congress and their constituents.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:30pm

I believe the reference was to Bush's efforts to invest Social Security funds in the stock market. Wow! AARP didn't want America's retirement invested in the stock market, imagine. Just think what the fund would be worth today if they had... OUCH!!!

by: justintime

08-07-2009 @ 2:11am

Where does it say 8% penalty?
Which bill are you referring to?
Please provide a link.
Thanks.

by: naekwon

08-06-2009 @ 7:21pm

I also read in a forward that Barack Obama himself would perform mandatory abortion, and then kill my grandma if this bill passed. Good point Kevin.

by: justintime

08-07-2009 @ 2:13am

Finally we get someone who's trying to listen.

by: naekwon

08-07-2009 @ 4:58am

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but you should all check out the website

http://pleasecutthecrap.com/

It deconstructs the right wing email that makes blatant false claims about the current house bill. It's not that I like the house bill, but I don't like they lies being generated by my insurance premiums either.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 3:57pm

This is the ugly face of the health insurance industry, protecting their obscene profits from an extortion racket, preying on Americans.
GOP teabaggers and the anti health care Christian soldiers who are disrupting town hall meetings across America must not realize they're being used by a corrupted industry.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 3:57pm

This is the ugly face of the health insurance industry, protecting their obscene profits from an extortion racket, preying on Americans.
GOP teabaggers and the anti health care Christian soldiers who are disrupting town hall meetings across America must not realize they're being used by a corrupted industry.

by: WaveTossed

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

I've heard about these organized protests. It reminds me of the sixties, when some far-left organizations arranged for groups to attend speeches given by those with whom they disagreed -- the organized groups would keep shouting and prevent the speaker from speaking. Now it's some of the far-right organizations who are using this tactic.

The senators and officials who are organizing these town-hall meetings need to run them in a very strict way. Tell anyone who interrupts, attempts to shout down, or disrupts the proceedings in any town-hall meeting will be escorted out. An organized procedure can be maintained to allow each person their turn in expressing their opinions in a civilized way, without resorting to thuggery.

by: WaveTossed

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

I've heard about these organized protests. It reminds me of the sixties, when some far-left organizations arranged for groups to attend speeches given by those with whom they disagreed -- the organized groups would keep shouting and prevent the speaker from speaking. Now it's some of the far-right organizations who are using this tactic.

The senators and officials who are organizing these town-hall meetings need to run them in a very strict way. Tell anyone who interrupts, attempts to shout down, or disrupts the proceedings in any town-hall meeting will be escorted out. An organized procedure can be maintained to allow each person their turn in expressing their opinions in a civilized way, without resorting to thuggery.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

Barack Obama claimed that he would cut costs (after the CBO said this wouldn't happen), and evoked an example of a doctor unnecessarily removing a child's tonsils. That is no more or less bizarre and dishonest than the arguments Wallis chooses to tackle here.

And the bill did, and might yet again, include a provision for abortion funding. Planned Parenthood (talk about a corrupted industry) is certainly investing in the effort to make it so.

So yeah, both sides are making wild claims, just as they have for centuries in the face of controversial legislation.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 4:16pm

Barack Obama claimed that he would cut costs (after the CBO said this wouldn't happen), and evoked an example of a doctor unnecessarily removing a child's tonsils. That is no more or less bizarre and dishonest than the arguments Wallis chooses to tackle here.

And the bill did, and might yet again, include a provision for abortion funding. Planned Parenthood (talk about a corrupted industry) is certainly investing in the effort to make it so.

So yeah, both sides are making wild claims, just as they have for centuries in the face of controversial legislation.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 4:27pm

To show just how crazy it's gotten, I heard about one elderly man telling his congressman, "I don't want government messing with my Medicare."

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 4:27pm

To show just how crazy it's gotten, I heard about one elderly man telling his congressman, "I don't want government messing with my Medicare."

by: BlueCollarTodd

08-06-2009 @ 4:53pm

I guess you have not come across an AP bit of news that reveals Obamacare does in fact cover abortion. Socialized medicine cannot avoid being rationed medicine. It is rather a perverse bit of logic that uses "compassion" as a basis to justify the murder of the unborn and to promote assisted suicide. Liberals have adopted a racially cleansed version of eugenics that justifies killing to oppressed and defenseless by appealing to poverty. The essence of eugenics.

by: BlueCollarTodd

08-06-2009 @ 4:53pm

I guess you have not come across an AP bit of news that reveals Obamacare does in fact cover abortion. Socialized medicine cannot avoid being rationed medicine. It is rather a perverse bit of logic that uses "compassion" as a basis to justify the murder of the unborn and to promote assisted suicide. Liberals have adopted a racially cleansed version of eugenics that justifies killing to oppressed and defenseless by appealing to poverty. The essence of eugenics.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 5:02pm

This was the same talking point used to defeat Social Security reform. Even though Bush's plan had precisely no impact on anyone over 55, the Democratic Party enlisted the help of the AARP to defeat the bill.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 5:02pm

This was the same talking point used to defeat Social Security reform. Even though Bush's plan had precisely no impact on anyone over 55, the Democratic Party enlisted the help of the AARP to defeat the bill.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:21pm

Not the way I remember it, Kevin.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:21pm

Not the way I remember it, Kevin.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:25pm

Typical Kevin response to ethical questions:

"Both sides do it."

Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin?

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 5:25pm

Typical Kevin response to ethical questions:

"Both sides do it."

Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin?

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:36pm

I don't know what you're talking about.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:36pm

I don't know what you're talking about.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:42pm

Puh-leez -- in fact, abortion has little (if anything) to do with eugenics, despite what conservatives desperate for an "in" with the African-American community, keep trumpeting. Ironically, their own policies -- and not necessarily slick marketing by Planned Parenthood -- actually make abortion an attractive option for young African-American females faced with unwanted pregnancies.

by: BlueDeacon

08-06-2009 @ 5:42pm

Puh-leez -- in fact, abortion has little (if anything) to do with eugenics, despite what conservatives desperate for an "in" with the African-American community, keep trumpeting. Ironically, their own policies -- and not necessarily slick marketing by Planned Parenthood -- actually make abortion an attractive option for young African-American females faced with unwanted pregnancies.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:25pm

I agree totally. There is a difference between allowing someone to exercise free speech and allowing them to disrupt honest discussions between members of Congress and their constituents.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:25pm

I agree totally. There is a difference between allowing someone to exercise free speech and allowing them to disrupt honest discussions between members of Congress and their constituents.

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:30pm

I believe the reference was to Bush's efforts to invest Social Security funds in the stock market. Wow! AARP didn't want America's retirement invested in the stock market, imagine. Just think what the fund would be worth today if they had... OUCH!!!

by: dlowen

08-06-2009 @ 6:30pm

I believe the reference was to Bush's efforts to invest Social Security funds in the stock market. Wow! AARP didn't want America's retirement invested in the stock market, imagine. Just think what the fund would be worth today if they had... OUCH!!!

by: naekwon

08-06-2009 @ 7:21pm

I also read in a forward that Barack Obama himself would perform mandatory abortion, and then kill my grandma if this bill passed. Good point Kevin.

by: naekwon

08-06-2009 @ 7:21pm

I also read in a forward that Barack Obama himself would perform mandatory abortion, and then kill my grandma if this bill passed. Good point Kevin.

by: ccarl

08-06-2009 @ 8:01pm

I voted for Obama and I am for Healthcare reform - a nationalized system, however, the plan that is being proposed will directly hurt small businesses. I hear everyone going on and on about it form both sides....has anybody actually read it? You can download all 1000 pages of it and read for yourself...this is not the plan to insure America. This plan saddles all the responsibility onto the small business owner. If you have a payroll of over $250,000 (which happens to be most small businesses) and you do not buy insurance for all your employees you will be fined 8% for each employee. You will get half of that back in the way of a business credit which you can use if you make a profit. Most businesess do not make a profit...they barely make a living. We will have to lay off people because we cannot afford to pay the 8% penalty or buy the insurance for all of our employees. If you try and pass some of those costs back to the employee you will be fined! This plan will cripple small businesses which is the backbone of our economy. I envision a National plan....of the backs of business, similar to Medicare where everyone pays in and if you want something better you buy a supplement. Please people....READ THE BILL!!!!!! I am sure that after most people see everything in it they will not want this to pass!!!!!

by: ccarl

08-06-2009 @ 8:01pm

I voted for Obama and I am for Healthcare reform - a nationalized system, however, the plan that is being proposed will directly hurt small businesses. I hear everyone going on and on about it form both sides....has anybody actually read it? You can download all 1000 pages of it and read for yourself...this is not the plan to insure America. This plan saddles all the responsibility onto the small business owner. If you have a payroll of over $250,000 (which happens to be most small businesses) and you do not buy insurance for all your employees you will be fined 8% for each employee. You will get half of that back in the way of a business credit which you can use if you make a profit. Most businesess do not make a profit...they barely make a living. We will have to lay off people because we cannot afford to pay the 8% penalty or buy the insurance for all of our employees. If you try and pass some of those costs back to the employee you will be fined! This plan will cripple small businesses which is the backbone of our economy. I envision a National plan....of the backs of business, similar to Medicare where everyone pays in and if you want something better you buy a supplement. Please people....READ THE BILL!!!!!! I am sure that after most people see everything in it they will not want this to pass!!!!!

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 8:13pm

Sounds like a bad idea.
The health care bill changes every week.
Did you read all 1000 pages?
Do you have a link?
Can you give us chapter and verse on the 8% fine for small businesses who do not insure their employees?
Is this in the bill, in a proposed amendment or something you heard someone say on tv?

Go to a town hall meeting, find out the facts, call your representatives and voice your concerns.

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 8:13pm

Sounds like a bad idea.
The health care bill changes every week.
Did you read all 1000 pages?
Do you have a link?
Can you give us chapter and verse on the 8% fine for small businesses who do not insure their employees?
Is this in the bill, in a proposed amendment or something you heard someone say on tv?

Go to a town hall meeting, find out the facts, call your representatives and voice your concerns.

by: Theagle

08-06-2009 @ 8:24pm

It is sad your website is misinforming the community! The bill has too many short comings to write about here, but for one the bill gets rid of ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years. Be honest, read the entire bill and it comes out a loss for America and our free society! There are better ways to reform healthcare than just create a horrible government run plan that will replace our free choice. Instead of bloging about it read the bill, you will protest this far reaching bill that make America more like a socialist country around the world. Let us be honest about the bill and follow your rules for the site.....

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt. (Ephesians 4:29)

by: Theagle

08-06-2009 @ 8:24pm

It is sad your website is misinforming the community! The bill has too many short comings to write about here, but for one the bill gets rid of ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years. Be honest, read the entire bill and it comes out a loss for America and our free society! There are better ways to reform healthcare than just create a horrible government run plan that will replace our free choice. Instead of bloging about it read the bill, you will protest this far reaching bill that make America more like a socialist country around the world. Let us be honest about the bill and follow your rules for the site.....

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt. (Ephesians 4:29)

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 8:31pm

The bill has too many short comings to write about here, but for one the bill gets rid of ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years.

Sounds like a bad idea, theagle.
But the health care bill changes every week.
Did you read the bill?
Do you have a link?
Can you give us chapter and verse where it eliminates "ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years"?
Is this in the bill, in a proposed amendment or something you heard someone say on tv?

by: justintime

08-06-2009 @ 8:31pm

The bill has too many short comings to write about here, but for one the bill gets rid of ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years.

Sounds like a bad idea, theagle.
But the health care bill changes every week.
Did you read the bill?
Do you have a link?
Can you give us chapter and verse where it eliminates "ones right to choose the health insurance one wants within 5 years"?
Is this in the bill, in a proposed amendment or something you heard someone say on tv?

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 8:45pm

"Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin? "

In this case, I would opt for ignoring it. Address the substantial arguments, and put the crazy stuff in the trash-bin.

Or, you can selectively decry the dishonest efforts of activists SOLELY when they disagree with your viewpoint. That'll make advocacy much more ethical.

by: lumens

08-06-2009 @ 8:45pm

"Are we supposed to tolerate unethical behavior, Kevin? "

In this case, I would opt for ignoring it. Address the substantial arguments, and put the crazy stuff in the trash-bin.

Or, you can selectively decry the dishonest efforts of activists SOLELY when they disagree with your viewpoint. That'll make advocacy much more ethical.

by: WitnessforPeace

08-06-2009 @ 11:10pm

I am worried very much by two things: 1--the haste with which the President insists we act. This leaves no time at all for the reasoned debate Wallis champions. Jim should speak up on this. 2--And saying it's abortion neutral--what exactly does that mean anyway--doesn't mean it IS in fact neutral. If Planned Parenthood is supporting it.........

by: WitnessforPeace

08-06-2009 @ 11:10pm

I am worried very much by two things: 1--the haste with which the President insists we act. This leaves no time at all for the reasoned debate Wallis champions. Jim should speak up on this. 2--And saying it's abortion neutral--what exactly does that mean anyway--doesn't mean it IS in fact neutral. If Planned Parenthood is supporting it.........

by: broncofam

08-06-2009 @ 11:11pm

I'm not thinking "teabagger" is an appropriate image in what's supposed to be a thoughtful discussion among the community of Jesus.

by: broncofam

08-06-2009 @ 11:11pm

I'm not thinking "teabagger" is an appropriate image in what's supposed to be a thoughtful discussion among the community of Jesus.

by: ronrouintre

08-06-2009 @ 11:34pm

It is my understanding that there is no final bill to vote on, and that there is consideration to raise the qualifier to $ 500,000. Would this make it more reasonable? I also believe the 8% should not apply to small business because it is unlikely that you would provide healthcare anyway and your employees would more than likely fall into the group that would need financial help to purchase their own policy which we know is very very costly for individual, hence the need for a public plan.

by: ronrouintre

08-06-2009 @ 11:34pm

It is my understanding that there is no final bill to vote on, and that there is consideration to raise the qualifier to $ 500,000. Would this make it more reasonable? I also believe the 8% should not apply to small business because it is unlikely that you would provide healthcare anyway and your employees would more than likely fall into the group that would need financial help to purchase their own policy which we know is very very costly for individual, hence the need for a public plan.

by: ccarl

08-06-2009 @ 11:39pm

It is SEC. 313 EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTONS IN LIEU OF COVEAGE page 149 of the bill. The bill has many other flaws in the bill...basically another issue at least as it is currently worded states that only residents will be penalizes 2.6% which will be deducted from the payroll by not having mandatory insurance, however, non residents are exempt....hence illegal immigrants will basically continue to have free coverage. I do believe it does need to be mandatory to make it work but for each indiividual to responsible not for small businesses to bear the responisibilty of covering everyone.

by: ccarl

08-06-2009 @ 11:39pm

It is SEC. 313 EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTONS IN LIEU OF COVEAGE page 149 of the bill. The bill has many other flaws in the bill...basically another issue at least as it is currently worded states that only residents will be penalizes 2.6% which will be deducted from the payroll by not having mandatory insurance, however, non residents are exempt....hence illegal immigrants will basically continue to have free coverage. I do believe it does need to be mandatory to make it work but for each indiividual to responsible not for small businesses to bear the responisibilty of covering everyone.

by: rhappleby

08-07-2009 @ 12:38am

Juarintme,

I suggest that you read HR 3200 before making any judgements on what the program does provide.

by: rhappleby

08-07-2009 @ 12:38am

Juarintme,

I suggest that you read HR 3200 before making any judgements on what the program does provide.

by: justintime

08-07-2009 @ 2:11am

Where does it say 8% penalty?
Which bill are you referring to?
Please provide a link.
Thanks.

by: justintime

08-07-2009 @ 2:11am

Where does it say 8% penalty?
Which bill are you referring to?
Please provide a link.
Thanks.

by: justintime

08-07-2009 @ 2:13am

Finally we get someone who's trying to listen.

by: justintime

08-07-2009 @ 2:13am

Finally we get someone who's trying to listen.