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The Truth about Immigrants and Health-Care Reform

As town hall meetings continue to dominate the national news, I am increasingly frustrated when I hear how "illegal aliens" are draining our health-care resources. I was encouraged to read a "reality check" from the Immigration Policy Center about the reality of immigrants and our current health system. The IPC states:

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Some are scapegoating immigrants as a way to thwart progress on the issue [health-care reform] and are arguing that even legal immigrants be restricted from our health system. Linking these two issues does nothing to advance necessary reforms to either health care or immigration. The U.S. can do both, but public debate and discussion must be based on facts, not myths and misinformation.

The IPC recently unveiled the truth about immigrants and health-care reform with the facts and evidence below:

1) The U.S. is not spending "too much" on health care for immigrants. A July 2009 article in the American Journal of Public Health found that insured immigrants had much lower medical expenses than insured U.S.-born citizens. Insured immigrants' per-person medical expenditures were 1/2 to 2/3 less than the U.S.-born with similar characteristics.

2) The vast majority of people in America who don't have health insurance are U.S. citizens. Four out of five people in America who have no insurance are U.S. citizens.

3) Contrary to popular belief, noncitizens are significantly less likely to use emergency room services than U.S. citizens. According to the nonpartisan Kaiser Commission, noncitizens have poorer access to care and receive less primary health care than citizens, but they are less likely than citizens to use the emergency room. Cities with large immigrant populations such as Miami-Dade County, Florida, and Phoenix, Arizona, have much lower rates of emergency room use than areas with small immigrant populations such as Cleveland.

Now that you have the facts, I encourage you to share them with others when you hear information about immigrants being distorted in discussions on health care. You can learn more about immigrant equity in health-care reform here.

Allison JohnsonAllison Johnson is the campaign coordinator of Christians for Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Her commentary "Shackling the Stranger" appeared in the April issue of Sojourners.

To learn more about immigration reform, visit www.faithandimmigration.org.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 5:19pm

Fair points all around, though I suspect much of these factors would change under a universal care system.

With respect to number three, reform advocates have been claiming for years the unnecessary ER visits by uninsured people with non-emergency illnesses are driving up costs. Until recently, I had simply taken these assertions at face value.

It turns out that the cost of these visits are negligible, compared to the overall cost of health care, and that the phenomenon of women rushing their kids into the ER with common colds was rather overblown. But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem.

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by: blamb

08-17-2009 @ 7:04pm

Allison,

Good background, and it sounded well researched, however it seems somewhat of a tangent as the main argument appears more at whether the current proposed legislation INCLUDES illegal immegrants (the ranks of the supposed 12 million illegals in America today). Many Christian and non-Christian groups oppose allowing ANY illegal immigrants access to the US Health Care System and claim that many Federal/State medical welfare systems are being bankrupted by illegal immigrants overburdening the system. The further claim that this bankruptcy would simply transfer to the new Universal system (particularly if illegals were given legal access to it, or if they simply back-door used it like they do the current Federal/State Health Warefare systems).

It didn't appear that you addressed that point square on, unless I missed something.

So, will the final piece of Health Care Reform legislation deal head-on with this question of how do 12 million illegal immigrants fare in the discussion or will the elephant in the room be ignored until the nation takes on immigration
reform in earnest?
From what I have heard at the town meetings and tea parties and right wing radio, many many Americans are taking the position of "don't mess with what is mine" (my health issurance, my medicare, etc and certainly don't mess with the money that I pay in the form of taxes by using my tax money to fund medical welfare for illegal immigrants).

Well, so much for everything blonging first to God and God's consistant urging via his Word, his prophets and his Son, to love and care for one another and to specifically see to it that the "alien" among us is cared for.

by: 1Grace

08-17-2009 @ 7:29pm

Scapegoating unfortunately has always been a problem and will be in national debates . Good editorial Allison.

Blame and shame are tools of the Evil One according to scriptures.

by: GCH

08-17-2009 @ 7:53pm

I have a number of friends who are immigrants with no health insurance. When they need medical care, they do not go to the emergency room, because the ER takes too long to be seen, runs too many unnessary tests, and charges too much. Instead, they use a medical clinic here that does not accept insurance and charges very reasonable fees. They PAY for their own medical care. The doctor at this clinic is, in essence, their primary care physician.

by: Intel_Logos

08-17-2009 @ 8:43pm

Allison, I love Sojourners. And Wallis.

But not on this one. Not yet.

The theology here is Elijah's ignorance standing before the mother with a dead son. Elijah-bama with five, alternating, competing drafts. Not good.

Insinuate theology into ambiguity if you wish. Truth is that we're as ignorant of revelation yet as is Elijah in ignorance before this mother.

I don't want to pollute your good forum with my extended blather (for more on my bias, see http://intellogos.blogspot.com/2009/08/20090817...).

Jim

by: prk

08-17-2009 @ 8:45pm

1.Wow insured immigrants use less. What about the uninsured immigrant?

2. Wow 300 million Americans and there are more of them uninsured than the 10 million illegal alliens? Are you sure?

3.Wow 300 million Americans are more likely to go to the emergency room than 10 million illegal alliens? So it aint so.

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by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 9:58pm

Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back. Going to the ER is a scary thing for them in that aspect.

Truth be told, illegal immigrants give more than they take from this country.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 10:04pm

I think if you read the article, you'll find all the answers to your questions. I'm not sure where you read the things you bring up but the article has the statistics that answer each of those silly notions.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:55pm

"Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back."

Which would validate the concerns of those who think illegal immigrants will drive up universal health care costs.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:58pm

Off topic, but I have to ask about the significance of the 47, if there is any.

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 12:59am

I don't get it. Can you explain further? If they go without care rather than risk getting caught, how will they drive up health care costs?

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 1:10am

Some years ago, my kids dragged me kicking and screaming to the computer and said it was time for me to join the world of technology. "Pick a screen name," they said. I was 47 years old at the time. So no significance at all other than a constant reminder of how many years I've been sitting in a chair, goofing off on the computer. :)

by: JamesM

08-18-2009 @ 7:06am

"But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem." lumens f/k/a Kevin47 (banned)

Especially if you agree with the anti-immigrant agenda of those who would propagate such misinformation. Right, Kevin?

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 12:58pm

The misinformation was propagated by those who support reform. I read that very argument on this blog.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 5:19pm

Fair points all around, though I suspect much of these factors would change under a universal care system.

With respect to number three, reform advocates have been claiming for years the unnecessary ER visits by uninsured people with non-emergency illnesses are driving up costs. Until recently, I had simply taken these assertions at face value.

It turns out that the cost of these visits are negligible, compared to the overall cost of health care, and that the phenomenon of women rushing their kids into the ER with common colds was rather overblown. But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem.

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 1:11pm

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

The concern to which this post is responding is that universal healthcare, coupled with amnesty, would result in a strain on the new system.

Illegal immigrants may indeed be avoiding attaining coverage now, but that will not be the case if they no longer fear getting caught. Since Obama is promising to cut costs, and presumably supports amnesty, his positions seem mutally exclusive.

by: blamb

08-17-2009 @ 7:04pm

Allison,

Good background, and it sounded well researched, however it seems somewhat of a tangent as the main argument appears more at whether the current proposed legislation INCLUDES illegal immegrants (the ranks of the supposed 12 million illegals in America today). Many Christian and non-Christian groups oppose allowing ANY illegal immigrants access to the US Health Care System and claim that many Federal/State medical welfare systems are being bankrupted by illegal immigrants overburdening the system. The further claim that this bankruptcy would simply transfer to the new Universal system (particularly if illegals were given legal access to it, or if they simply back-door used it like they do the current Federal/State Health Warefare systems).

It didn't appear that you addressed that point square on, unless I missed something.

So, will the final piece of Health Care Reform legislation deal head-on with this question of how do 12 million illegal immigrants fare in the discussion or will the elephant in the room be ignored until the nation takes on immigration
reform in earnest?
From what I have heard at the town meetings and tea parties and right wing radio, many many Americans are taking the position of "don't mess with what is mine" (my health issurance, my medicare, etc and certainly don't mess with the money that I pay in the form of taxes by using my tax money to fund medical welfare for illegal immigrants).

Well, so much for everything blonging first to God and God's consistant urging via his Word, his prophets and his Son, to love and care for one another and to specifically see to it that the "alien" among us is cared for.

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by: 1Grace

08-17-2009 @ 7:29pm

Scapegoating unfortunately has always been a problem and will be in national debates . Good editorial Allison.

Blame and shame are tools of the Evil One according to scriptures.

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08-16-2011 @ 2:16pm

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by: GCH

08-17-2009 @ 7:53pm

I have a number of friends who are immigrants with no health insurance. When they need medical care, they do not go to the emergency room, because the ER takes too long to be seen, runs too many unnessary tests, and charges too much. Instead, they use a medical clinic here that does not accept insurance and charges very reasonable fees. They PAY for their own medical care. The doctor at this clinic is, in essence, their primary care physician.

by: Intel_Logos

08-17-2009 @ 8:43pm

Allison, I love Sojourners. And Wallis.

But not on this one. Not yet.

The theology here is Elijah's ignorance standing before the mother with a dead son. Elijah-bama with five, alternating, competing drafts. Not good.

Insinuate theology into ambiguity if you wish. Truth is that we're as ignorant of revelation yet as is Elijah in ignorance before this mother.

I don't want to pollute your good forum with my extended blather (for more on my bias, see http://intellogos.blogspot.com/2009/08/20090817...).

Jim

by: prk

08-17-2009 @ 8:45pm

1.Wow insured immigrants use less. What about the uninsured immigrant?

2. Wow 300 million Americans and there are more of them uninsured than the 10 million illegal alliens? Are you sure?

3.Wow 300 million Americans are more likely to go to the emergency room than 10 million illegal alliens? So it aint so.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 9:58pm

Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back. Going to the ER is a scary thing for them in that aspect.

Truth be told, illegal immigrants give more than they take from this country.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 10:04pm

I think if you read the article, you'll find all the answers to your questions. I'm not sure where you read the things you bring up but the article has the statistics that answer each of those silly notions.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:55pm

"Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back."

Which would validate the concerns of those who think illegal immigrants will drive up universal health care costs.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:58pm

Off topic, but I have to ask about the significance of the 47, if there is any.

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 12:59am

I don't get it. Can you explain further? If they go without care rather than risk getting caught, how will they drive up health care costs?

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by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 1:10am

Some years ago, my kids dragged me kicking and screaming to the computer and said it was time for me to join the world of technology. "Pick a screen name," they said. I was 47 years old at the time. So no significance at all other than a constant reminder of how many years I've been sitting in a chair, goofing off on the computer. :)

by: JamesM

08-18-2009 @ 7:06am

"But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem." lumens f/k/a Kevin47 (banned)

Especially if you agree with the anti-immigrant agenda of those who would propagate such misinformation. Right, Kevin?

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 2:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 12:58pm

The misinformation was propagated by those who support reform. I read that very argument on this blog.

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 1:11pm

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

The concern to which this post is responding is that universal healthcare, coupled with amnesty, would result in a strain on the new system.

Illegal immigrants may indeed be avoiding attaining coverage now, but that will not be the case if they no longer fear getting caught. Since Obama is promising to cut costs, and presumably supports amnesty, his positions seem mutally exclusive.

by: neuro_nurse

08-18-2009 @ 2:15pm

While I appreciate the author's attempt to introduce these studies and their conclusions into the health care debate, this is not new information. Other studies conducted several years ago drew similar conclusions

by: nuclearferret

08-18-2009 @ 4:35pm

Your article fails completely to discern any difference in status and results from immigrants who are in the United States against appropriate laws, and immigrants who have complied with US law. Is this because you do not think the difference is meaningful? You think opposition to the current proposals is universal to all immigrants, or are you merely trying, to use an analogy, trying to mix good milk with bad in an effort to obscure the issue of illegal immigration?

by: wjschroeder

08-21-2009 @ 7:43pm

they are just tring to dance around the whole point and issue of complainst against this issue. the FACT is we do not want the government involved in our lives any further than it already is. they are to invovled in our daily lives as it is. its becoming socialism whether you can swallow the statement or not, just research what social consist of. As christians we belong to GOD we obey God in socialism this is not possible because the government controls you. socialism drives out God plain and simple, look at every government that as gone this route and you will see the steady decline in faith and religion. See this is what happens when God is taken out of the discussion. we all think worldly. we bring our faith into it just to try and convince people one way or the other. governments do NOT go by what God tells them. governments are sources of power and will not abide by Gods standards. YET sojouners and christian organisations wants us to believe they will or could or whatever. I SAY NO WAY REREAD THE BIBLE.

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 12:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

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by: neuro_nurse

08-18-2009 @ 2:15pm

While I appreciate the author's attempt to introduce these studies and their conclusions into the health care debate, this is not new information. Other studies conducted several years ago drew similar conclusions

by: nuclearferret

08-18-2009 @ 4:35pm

Your article fails completely to discern any difference in status and results from immigrants who are in the United States against appropriate laws, and immigrants who have complied with US law. Is this because you do not think the difference is meaningful? You think opposition to the current proposals is universal to all immigrants, or are you merely trying, to use an analogy, trying to mix good milk with bad in an effort to obscure the issue of illegal immigration?

by: wjschroeder

08-21-2009 @ 7:43pm

they are just tring to dance around the whole point and issue of complainst against this issue. the FACT is we do not want the government involved in our lives any further than it already is. they are to invovled in our daily lives as it is. its becoming socialism whether you can swallow the statement or not, just research what social consist of. As christians we belong to GOD we obey God in socialism this is not possible because the government controls you. socialism drives out God plain and simple, look at every government that as gone this route and you will see the steady decline in faith and religion. See this is what happens when God is taken out of the discussion. we all think worldly. we bring our faith into it just to try and convince people one way or the other. governments do NOT go by what God tells them. governments are sources of power and will not abide by Gods standards. YET sojouners and christian organisations wants us to believe they will or could or whatever. I SAY NO WAY REREAD THE BIBLE.

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 12:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

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by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 5:19pm

Fair points all around, though I suspect much of these factors would change under a universal care system.

With respect to number three, reform advocates have been claiming for years the unnecessary ER visits by uninsured people with non-emergency illnesses are driving up costs. Until recently, I had simply taken these assertions at face value.

It turns out that the cost of these visits are negligible, compared to the overall cost of health care, and that the phenomenon of women rushing their kids into the ER with common colds was rather overblown. But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 5:19pm

Fair points all around, though I suspect much of these factors would change under a universal care system.

With respect to number three, reform advocates have been claiming for years the unnecessary ER visits by uninsured people with non-emergency illnesses are driving up costs. Until recently, I had simply taken these assertions at face value.

It turns out that the cost of these visits are negligible, compared to the overall cost of health care, and that the phenomenon of women rushing their kids into the ER with common colds was rather overblown. But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem.

by: blamb

08-17-2009 @ 7:04pm

Allison,

Good background, and it sounded well researched, however it seems somewhat of a tangent as the main argument appears more at whether the current proposed legislation INCLUDES illegal immegrants (the ranks of the supposed 12 million illegals in America today). Many Christian and non-Christian groups oppose allowing ANY illegal immigrants access to the US Health Care System and claim that many Federal/State medical welfare systems are being bankrupted by illegal immigrants overburdening the system. The further claim that this bankruptcy would simply transfer to the new Universal system (particularly if illegals were given legal access to it, or if they simply back-door used it like they do the current Federal/State Health Warefare systems).

It didn't appear that you addressed that point square on, unless I missed something.

So, will the final piece of Health Care Reform legislation deal head-on with this question of how do 12 million illegal immigrants fare in the discussion or will the elephant in the room be ignored until the nation takes on immigration
reform in earnest?
From what I have heard at the town meetings and tea parties and right wing radio, many many Americans are taking the position of "don't mess with what is mine" (my health issurance, my medicare, etc and certainly don't mess with the money that I pay in the form of taxes by using my tax money to fund medical welfare for illegal immigrants).

Well, so much for everything blonging first to God and God's consistant urging via his Word, his prophets and his Son, to love and care for one another and to specifically see to it that the "alien" among us is cared for.

by: blamb

08-17-2009 @ 7:04pm

Allison,

Good background, and it sounded well researched, however it seems somewhat of a tangent as the main argument appears more at whether the current proposed legislation INCLUDES illegal immegrants (the ranks of the supposed 12 million illegals in America today). Many Christian and non-Christian groups oppose allowing ANY illegal immigrants access to the US Health Care System and claim that many Federal/State medical welfare systems are being bankrupted by illegal immigrants overburdening the system. The further claim that this bankruptcy would simply transfer to the new Universal system (particularly if illegals were given legal access to it, or if they simply back-door used it like they do the current Federal/State Health Warefare systems).

It didn't appear that you addressed that point square on, unless I missed something.

So, will the final piece of Health Care Reform legislation deal head-on with this question of how do 12 million illegal immigrants fare in the discussion or will the elephant in the room be ignored until the nation takes on immigration
reform in earnest?
From what I have heard at the town meetings and tea parties and right wing radio, many many Americans are taking the position of "don't mess with what is mine" (my health issurance, my medicare, etc and certainly don't mess with the money that I pay in the form of taxes by using my tax money to fund medical welfare for illegal immigrants).

Well, so much for everything blonging first to God and God's consistant urging via his Word, his prophets and his Son, to love and care for one another and to specifically see to it that the "alien" among us is cared for.

by: 1Grace

08-17-2009 @ 7:29pm

Scapegoating unfortunately has always been a problem and will be in national debates . Good editorial Allison.

Blame and shame are tools of the Evil One according to scriptures.

by: 1Grace

08-17-2009 @ 7:29pm

Scapegoating unfortunately has always been a problem and will be in national debates . Good editorial Allison.

Blame and shame are tools of the Evil One according to scriptures.

by: GCH

08-17-2009 @ 7:53pm

I have a number of friends who are immigrants with no health insurance. When they need medical care, they do not go to the emergency room, because the ER takes too long to be seen, runs too many unnessary tests, and charges too much. Instead, they use a medical clinic here that does not accept insurance and charges very reasonable fees. They PAY for their own medical care. The doctor at this clinic is, in essence, their primary care physician.

by: GCH

08-17-2009 @ 7:53pm

I have a number of friends who are immigrants with no health insurance. When they need medical care, they do not go to the emergency room, because the ER takes too long to be seen, runs too many unnessary tests, and charges too much. Instead, they use a medical clinic here that does not accept insurance and charges very reasonable fees. They PAY for their own medical care. The doctor at this clinic is, in essence, their primary care physician.

by: Intel_Logos

08-17-2009 @ 8:43pm

Allison, I love Sojourners. And Wallis.

But not on this one. Not yet.

The theology here is Elijah's ignorance standing before the mother with a dead son. Elijah-bama with five, alternating, competing drafts. Not good.

Insinuate theology into ambiguity if you wish. Truth is that we're as ignorant of revelation yet as is Elijah in ignorance before this mother.

I don't want to pollute your good forum with my extended blather (for more on my bias, see http://intellogos.blogspot.com/2009/08/20090817...).

Jim

by: Intel_Logos

08-17-2009 @ 8:43pm

Allison, I love Sojourners. And Wallis.

But not on this one. Not yet.

The theology here is Elijah's ignorance standing before the mother with a dead son. Elijah-bama with five, alternating, competing drafts. Not good.

Insinuate theology into ambiguity if you wish. Truth is that we're as ignorant of revelation yet as is Elijah in ignorance before this mother.

I don't want to pollute your good forum with my extended blather (for more on my bias, see http://intellogos.blogspot.com/2009/08/20090817...).

Jim

by: prk

08-17-2009 @ 8:45pm

1.Wow insured immigrants use less. What about the uninsured immigrant?

2. Wow 300 million Americans and there are more of them uninsured than the 10 million illegal alliens? Are you sure?

3.Wow 300 million Americans are more likely to go to the emergency room than 10 million illegal alliens? So it aint so.

by: prk

08-17-2009 @ 8:45pm

1.Wow insured immigrants use less. What about the uninsured immigrant?

2. Wow 300 million Americans and there are more of them uninsured than the 10 million illegal alliens? Are you sure?

3.Wow 300 million Americans are more likely to go to the emergency room than 10 million illegal alliens? So it aint so.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 9:58pm

Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back. Going to the ER is a scary thing for them in that aspect.

Truth be told, illegal immigrants give more than they take from this country.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 9:58pm

Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back. Going to the ER is a scary thing for them in that aspect.

Truth be told, illegal immigrants give more than they take from this country.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 10:04pm

I think if you read the article, you'll find all the answers to your questions. I'm not sure where you read the things you bring up but the article has the statistics that answer each of those silly notions.

by: josieperl47

08-17-2009 @ 10:04pm

I think if you read the article, you'll find all the answers to your questions. I'm not sure where you read the things you bring up but the article has the statistics that answer each of those silly notions.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:55pm

"Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back."

Which would validate the concerns of those who think illegal immigrants will drive up universal health care costs.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:55pm

"Or perhaps some people think as I do, that illegal immigrants go without health care if it means they might get caught and sent back."

Which would validate the concerns of those who think illegal immigrants will drive up universal health care costs.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:58pm

Off topic, but I have to ask about the significance of the 47, if there is any.

by: lumens

08-17-2009 @ 10:58pm

Off topic, but I have to ask about the significance of the 47, if there is any.

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 12:59am

I don't get it. Can you explain further? If they go without care rather than risk getting caught, how will they drive up health care costs?

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 12:59am

I don't get it. Can you explain further? If they go without care rather than risk getting caught, how will they drive up health care costs?

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 1:10am

Some years ago, my kids dragged me kicking and screaming to the computer and said it was time for me to join the world of technology. "Pick a screen name," they said. I was 47 years old at the time. So no significance at all other than a constant reminder of how many years I've been sitting in a chair, goofing off on the computer. :)

by: josieperl47

08-18-2009 @ 1:10am

Some years ago, my kids dragged me kicking and screaming to the computer and said it was time for me to join the world of technology. "Pick a screen name," they said. I was 47 years old at the time. So no significance at all other than a constant reminder of how many years I've been sitting in a chair, goofing off on the computer. :)

by: JamesM

08-18-2009 @ 7:06am

"But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem." lumens f/k/a Kevin47 (banned)

Especially if you agree with the anti-immigrant agenda of those who would propagate such misinformation. Right, Kevin?

by: JamesM

08-18-2009 @ 7:06am

"But you can hardly blame someone for assuming that, since illegal immigrants are largely uninsured, they are contributing to a substantial problem." lumens f/k/a Kevin47 (banned)

Especially if you agree with the anti-immigrant agenda of those who would propagate such misinformation. Right, Kevin?

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 12:58pm

The misinformation was propagated by those who support reform. I read that very argument on this blog.

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 12:58pm

The misinformation was propagated by those who support reform. I read that very argument on this blog.

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 1:11pm

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

The concern to which this post is responding is that universal healthcare, coupled with amnesty, would result in a strain on the new system.

Illegal immigrants may indeed be avoiding attaining coverage now, but that will not be the case if they no longer fear getting caught. Since Obama is promising to cut costs, and presumably supports amnesty, his positions seem mutally exclusive.

by: lumens

08-18-2009 @ 1:11pm

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

The concern to which this post is responding is that universal healthcare, coupled with amnesty, would result in a strain on the new system.

Illegal immigrants may indeed be avoiding attaining coverage now, but that will not be the case if they no longer fear getting caught. Since Obama is promising to cut costs, and presumably supports amnesty, his positions seem mutally exclusive.

by: neuro_nurse

08-18-2009 @ 2:15pm

While I appreciate the author's attempt to introduce these studies and their conclusions into the health care debate, this is not new information. Other studies conducted several years ago drew similar conclusions

by: neuro_nurse

08-18-2009 @ 2:15pm

While I appreciate the author's attempt to introduce these studies and their conclusions into the health care debate, this is not new information. Other studies conducted several years ago drew similar conclusions

by: nuclearferret

08-18-2009 @ 4:35pm

Your article fails completely to discern any difference in status and results from immigrants who are in the United States against appropriate laws, and immigrants who have complied with US law. Is this because you do not think the difference is meaningful? You think opposition to the current proposals is universal to all immigrants, or are you merely trying, to use an analogy, trying to mix good milk with bad in an effort to obscure the issue of illegal immigration?

by: nuclearferret

08-18-2009 @ 4:35pm

Your article fails completely to discern any difference in status and results from immigrants who are in the United States against appropriate laws, and immigrants who have complied with US law. Is this because you do not think the difference is meaningful? You think opposition to the current proposals is universal to all immigrants, or are you merely trying, to use an analogy, trying to mix good milk with bad in an effort to obscure the issue of illegal immigration?

by: wjschroeder

08-21-2009 @ 7:43pm

they are just tring to dance around the whole point and issue of complainst against this issue. the FACT is we do not want the government involved in our lives any further than it already is. they are to invovled in our daily lives as it is. its becoming socialism whether you can swallow the statement or not, just research what social consist of. As christians we belong to GOD we obey God in socialism this is not possible because the government controls you. socialism drives out God plain and simple, look at every government that as gone this route and you will see the steady decline in faith and religion. See this is what happens when God is taken out of the discussion. we all think worldly. we bring our faith into it just to try and convince people one way or the other. governments do NOT go by what God tells them. governments are sources of power and will not abide by Gods standards. YET sojouners and christian organisations wants us to believe they will or could or whatever. I SAY NO WAY REREAD THE BIBLE.

by: wjschroeder

08-21-2009 @ 7:43pm

they are just tring to dance around the whole point and issue of complainst against this issue. the FACT is we do not want the government involved in our lives any further than it already is. they are to invovled in our daily lives as it is. its becoming socialism whether you can swallow the statement or not, just research what social consist of. As christians we belong to GOD we obey God in socialism this is not possible because the government controls you. socialism drives out God plain and simple, look at every government that as gone this route and you will see the steady decline in faith and religion. See this is what happens when God is taken out of the discussion. we all think worldly. we bring our faith into it just to try and convince people one way or the other. governments do NOT go by what God tells them. governments are sources of power and will not abide by Gods standards. YET sojouners and christian organisations wants us to believe they will or could or whatever. I SAY NO WAY REREAD THE BIBLE.

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 12:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 12:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 2:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

by: tandemjonathan

08-25-2009 @ 2:22am

I have a number of friends at church who are undocumented immigrants. One story I'm aware of shows how, in this case at least, not only are they not draining the resources, but they are subsidizing the costs for the rest of us.

My friend went to the hospital for some tests, and was amazed at the bill she received (it would have been much less in her country). She worked out a payment plan and paid every penny. If I had undergone the same tests, my insurance company would have negotiated a substantial discount and I would have paid much less than she did for the same tests. This is an example of how the system is broken as well as how my friend is keeping the costs down for those of us who have insurance.

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