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Faith is about Redemption: The Life of Ted Kennedy

I have never really trusted those who are intolerant and condemning of other people's shortcomings. It makes me suspect they are likely hiding their own. This weekend was full of the story of redemption for me, as the nation said its good-byes to Sen. Edward Kennedy.

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I watched everything -- from the moving memorial service on Friday night to the amazing funeral Mass on Saturday, to the private burial that same evening, to much of the news coverage and comment on Sunday. The stories from Friday are worth listening to again, especially the touching tributes from Kennedy's Republican adversaries who grew to respect and even love him, and the hilarious tales of sailing adventures. The Irish always say there should be lots of laughter at a good wake.

But it was the funeral on Saturday morning that most moved me. I don't know what I was expecting -- likely more speeches -- but not a traditional Catholic funeral liturgy, complete with Holy Eucharist. Of course, what else should I have expected from such a Boston Catholic family? Here was the divine irony. At the funeral of the nation's most liberal political leader of the last half-century, a watching nation was treated to a full Catholic Mass. And even more, the readings are what most struck me. When was the last time the whole country got to hear the 25th chapter of Matthew, with Jesus imploring us, "I was hungry

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by: calledme

09-03-2009 @ 6:53pm

Perhaps, if you and the rest of us get busy admitting to and working on healing our broken places rather than demonstrating them, there will be too little time to "skewer" those with different visions and more time to commit to becoming real friends and uniters.

by: Soulfulpsy

09-03-2009 @ 7:02pm

This is a moving commentary with a challenging lesson: To allow people to change in our own minds by expanding our experience of them to include the beautiful parts as well as those that are ugly.

What makes Ted Kennedy different from those like Cheney? For one thing, Kennedy recognized his serious flaws and failings and strove for years to change and make amends. Yes, Cheney is as much a child of God as Kennedy or anyone else, but I see little evidence of any self-awareness in Cheney nor any significant compassion being directed to those on the margin. Perhaps that will come down the road.

But in the meantime, we could do well by trying to avoid emphasizing the good-bad splits in others and deal with overcoming those in ourselves.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 7:10pm

I heard an interview with Billy Graham where he considered himself a Democrat. I don't that one will work. Try somebody else.

by: megrinaldi

09-03-2009 @ 7:18pm

i so appreciate this website and jim's commentaries. it is an easy habit to get into judging others. it can be a form of laziness: when i judge someone and put them out of my heart, i dont have to reflect too deeply. i can judge and just move into my day.

dropping judgement does not mean dropping discernment. it does indeed require the capacity to stay w. paradox. most things in life are not 'either or' rather they fall into the catagory of 'both/and'. that requires a deeper faith that has been tested by the complexities of human life presented to each of us.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 3:21pm

"I received a final insight: that the roles of being a prophetic advocate who stands passionately for social justice, and the vocation of being a bridge-builder and convener who brings diverse people together are not, perhaps, so mutually exclusive after all. Most people tell me they are, but feeling called to both, I have often struggled to reconcile them."

Maybe your experience is more one of paradox than of conflict. Was Jesus a uniter or a divider? Does the truth unite or divide. Is conflict sometimes the path to peace?

Hold onto your calling! Treasure the paradox--it is a fundamental piece of your calling. Let wisdom be born in the 'long obedience' of what seems divergent callings. It will be a wisdom that has found a much deeper level of both the prophetic and bridge-building call through the willingness to engage paradox.

by: ???????????????

01-27-2010 @ 6:35pm

thanks for sharing with us.

by: Printable Address Labels

01-13-2010 @ 9:59am

Great stuff dude.. I was really impressed.

by: ourfoundingtruth

09-03-2009 @ 7:36pm

I seriously douby Ted Kennedy was born again. The Lord judge's with all righteousness to any who is not ignorant, that sheds the blood of the innocent.

by: address labels envelops

01-13-2010 @ 9:57am

thanks for sharing with us.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 7:41pm

Billy Graham is a Southerner, and when he was coming up virtually all Southerners were Democrats -- the Republican Party was virtually non-existent in the South until the 1960s. Unlike most, however, he found no need to change his registration.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 3:48pm

"I have never really trusted those who are intolerant and condemning of other people's shortcomings. It makes me suspect they are likely hiding their own."

Isn't this the same Jim Wallis who loves to skewer conservatives!? Talk about hypocrisy. I will be waiting with bated breath to hear a Jim Wallis eulogy of a conservative on a par with this one. Principle over politics...I don't think so.

by: 1500 Calorie Diabetic Diet

01-13-2010 @ 9:52am

This is a great job! Well done. Thank you sharing your ideas and knowledge.

by: Skinfood

01-12-2010 @ 5:55am

Nicely done, very impressive. Keep up the good work and of course, keep sharing your ideas.

by: Eric77

09-03-2009 @ 4:24pm

Yeah, the comment seemed odd to me as well. Perhaps it was just poor word choice. It seems to me that saying things like "Dick Cheney is evil" would fall into that category, but who knows...

by: Lemonade diet

01-12-2010 @ 5:55am

this is such great information. thanks for the insight.

by: Eric77

09-03-2009 @ 4:28pm

But it was the funeral on Saturday morning that most moved me. I don't know what I was expecting - likely more speeches - but not a traditional Catholic funeral liturgy, complete with Communion. Of course, what else should I have expected from such a Boston Catholic family? Here was the divine irony. At the funeral of the nation's most liberal political leader of the last half-century, a watching nation was treated to a full Catholic Mass.

I remember a similar experience when Paine Stewart, the golfer died tragically back in the late 90s. His funeral was broadcast nationwide on ESPN. Stewart was a Christian and his story of coming to faith and Jesus was told to the hundreds of thousands who were watching. While it wasn't a Catholic Mass, it was a Christian funeral service and everyone who watched was blessed with hearing the message of Christ.

by: Etude

01-12-2010 @ 5:55am

Thank you, it is very good! I like it very much

by: squeaky

09-03-2009 @ 8:30pm

Thank you.

by: Cayenne Pepper Diet

01-12-2010 @ 1:30am

this is telly awesome article.Thanks for sharing with us..

by: Cayenne Pepper Diet

01-11-2010 @ 3:14pm

Great stuff dude.. I was really impressed.

by: Apple Cider Vinegar Diet

01-11-2010 @ 3:13pm

This is a great job! Well done. Thank you sharing your ideas and knowledge.

by: Portable Air Conditioner

01-11-2010 @ 3:13pm

thanks for sharing with us.

by: Diet

01-11-2010 @ 10:36am

Nicely done, very impressive. Keep up the good work and of course, keep sharing your ideas.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 10:52pm

How do you respond to those who are intolerant and condemning of other's shortcomings??

He just shares that his response is to be suspect. It's an honest response. He doesn't identify it as either noble or despicable. I don't think sharing what is a quite common response to equate to hypocrisy.

I sometimes (quite often) do not think his language about conservatives matches up to what he says he wants to accomplish regarding a new dialogue. But I do not think his language or spirit is lacking in graciousnes.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 6:24pm

Wallis was actually very charitable toward Falwell -- who had insulted him directly -- on this very website upon Falwell death. And you best believe that he will lionize Billy Graham when he meets his reward.

by: Printable Address Labels

01-11-2010 @ 10:36am

Thank you, it is very good! I like it very much

by: Sears Craftsman Air Compressor

01-11-2010 @ 10:36am

this is such great information. thanks for the insight.

by: xfree9

09-03-2009 @ 11:46pm

Good example to the contrary (and I agree with you about Graham), but that doesn't disprove his point. Wallis is on record oftentimes saying he doesn't like Sarah Palin, John McCain, and typically does talk down to conservatives.

by: Cayenne Pepper Diet

01-10-2010 @ 4:56pm

thanks for sharing with us.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:19am

I never once heard Wallis denounce McCain. When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that. Contrary to what people may believe, he's not at all being divisive; he's only exposing the divisiveness that has already existed for over 30 years. (Similar to the things MLK Jr. was accused of during the civil-rights movement.)

by: Cayenne Pepper Diet

01-10-2010 @ 4:55pm

this is telly awesome article.Thanks for sharing with us..

by: Personalized Address Labels

01-10-2010 @ 4:55pm

This is a great job! Well done. Thank you sharing your ideas and knowledge.

by: Sears Parts

01-10-2010 @ 12:00pm

Great stuff dude.. I was really impressed.

by: Sport Club Portugu

01-10-2010 @ 12:00pm

Nicely done, very impressive. Keep up the good work and of course, keep sharing your ideas.

by: calledme

09-03-2009 @ 6:53pm

Perhaps, if you and the rest of us get busy admitting to and working on healing our broken places rather than demonstrating them, there will be too little time to "skewer" those with different visions and more time to commit to becoming real friends and uniters.

by: self-directed IRAs

01-10-2010 @ 12:00pm

this is such great information. thanks for the insight.

by: Soulfulpsy

09-03-2009 @ 7:02pm

This is a moving commentary with a challenging lesson: To allow people to change in our own minds by expanding our experience of them to include the beautiful parts as well as those that are ugly.

What makes Ted Kennedy different from those like Cheney? For one thing, Kennedy recognized his serious flaws and failings and strove for years to change and make amends. Yes, Cheney is as much a child of God as Kennedy or anyone else, but I see little evidence of any self-awareness in Cheney nor any significant compassion being directed to those on the margin. Perhaps that will come down the road.

But in the meantime, we could do well by trying to avoid emphasizing the good-bad splits in others and deal with overcoming those in ourselves.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 7:10pm

I heard an interview with Billy Graham where he considered himself a Democrat. I don't that one will work. Try somebody else.

by: megrinaldi

09-03-2009 @ 7:18pm

i so appreciate this website and jim's commentaries. it is an easy habit to get into judging others. it can be a form of laziness: when i judge someone and put them out of my heart, i dont have to reflect too deeply. i can judge and just move into my day.

dropping judgement does not mean dropping discernment. it does indeed require the capacity to stay w. paradox. most things in life are not 'either or' rather they fall into the catagory of 'both/and'. that requires a deeper faith that has been tested by the complexities of human life presented to each of us.

by: ourfoundingtruth

09-03-2009 @ 7:36pm

I seriously douby Ted Kennedy was born again. The Lord judge's with all righteousness to any who is not ignorant, that sheds the blood of the innocent.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 7:41pm

Billy Graham is a Southerner, and when he was coming up virtually all Southerners were Democrats -- the Republican Party was virtually non-existent in the South until the 1960s. Unlike most, however, he found no need to change his registration.

by: squeaky

09-03-2009 @ 8:30pm

Thank you.

by: Eric77

09-04-2009 @ 12:03pm

When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that.

At times I think Wallis is right about that too. It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made - that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings. People's shortcomings are condemned all the time on this blog.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:26pm

It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made -- that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings.

Well, when you consider that the people who do that gained power in the first place by scapegoating others in that fashion, I think he's standing on solid ground. For example, "bashing 'big government'" -- which, essentially, is code for using the political process to help the poor -- was in vague in the 1980s and used for the sake of polarization, and I personally denounced that. More to the point, if you identify yourself as a Christian your faith was questioned; five years ago Wallis published on this very blog an insult that Falwell had delivered -- that he was "as evangelical as an oak tree."

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 10:52pm

How do you respond to those who are intolerant and condemning of other's shortcomings??

He just shares that his response is to be suspect. It's an honest response. He doesn't identify it as either noble or despicable. I don't think sharing what is a quite common response to equate to hypocrisy.

I sometimes (quite often) do not think his language about conservatives matches up to what he says he wants to accomplish regarding a new dialogue. But I do not think his language or spirit is lacking in graciousnes.

by: xfree9

09-03-2009 @ 11:46pm

Good example to the contrary (and I agree with you about Graham), but that doesn't disprove his point. Wallis is on record oftentimes saying he doesn't like Sarah Palin, John McCain, and typically does talk down to conservatives.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:19am

I never once heard Wallis denounce McCain. When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that. Contrary to what people may believe, he's not at all being divisive; he's only exposing the divisiveness that has already existed for over 30 years. (Similar to the things MLK Jr. was accused of during the civil-rights movement.)

by: Eric77

09-04-2009 @ 12:03pm

When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that.

At times I think Wallis is right about that too. It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made - that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings. People's shortcomings are condemned all the time on this blog.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:26pm

It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made -- that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings.

Well, when you consider that the people who do that gained power in the first place by scapegoating others in that fashion, I think he's standing on solid ground. For example, "bashing 'big government'" -- which, essentially, is code for using the political process to help the poor -- was in vague in the 1980s and used for the sake of polarization, and I personally denounced that. More to the point, if you identify yourself as a Christian your faith was questioned; five years ago Wallis published on this very blog an insult that Falwell had delivered -- that he was "as evangelical as an oak tree."

by: ???????????????

01-27-2010 @ 8:35pm

thanks for sharing with us.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 3:21pm

"I received a final insight: that the roles of being a prophetic advocate who stands passionately for social justice, and the vocation of being a bridge-builder and convener who brings diverse people together are not, perhaps, so mutually exclusive after all. Most people tell me they are, but feeling called to both, I have often struggled to reconcile them."

Maybe your experience is more one of paradox than of conflict. Was Jesus a uniter or a divider? Does the truth unite or divide. Is conflict sometimes the path to peace?

Hold onto your calling! Treasure the paradox--it is a fundamental piece of your calling. Let wisdom be born in the 'long obedience' of what seems divergent callings. It will be a wisdom that has found a much deeper level of both the prophetic and bridge-building call through the willingness to engage paradox.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 3:21pm

"I received a final insight: that the roles of being a prophetic advocate who stands passionately for social justice, and the vocation of being a bridge-builder and convener who brings diverse people together are not, perhaps, so mutually exclusive after all. Most people tell me they are, but feeling called to both, I have often struggled to reconcile them."

Maybe your experience is more one of paradox than of conflict. Was Jesus a uniter or a divider? Does the truth unite or divide. Is conflict sometimes the path to peace?

Hold onto your calling! Treasure the paradox--it is a fundamental piece of your calling. Let wisdom be born in the 'long obedience' of what seems divergent callings. It will be a wisdom that has found a much deeper level of both the prophetic and bridge-building call through the willingness to engage paradox.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 3:48pm

"I have never really trusted those who are intolerant and condemning of other people's shortcomings. It makes me suspect they are likely hiding their own."

Isn't this the same Jim Wallis who loves to skewer conservatives!? Talk about hypocrisy. I will be waiting with bated breath to hear a Jim Wallis eulogy of a conservative on a par with this one. Principle over politics...I don't think so.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 3:48pm

"I have never really trusted those who are intolerant and condemning of other people's shortcomings. It makes me suspect they are likely hiding their own."

Isn't this the same Jim Wallis who loves to skewer conservatives!? Talk about hypocrisy. I will be waiting with bated breath to hear a Jim Wallis eulogy of a conservative on a par with this one. Principle over politics...I don't think so.

by: Eric77

09-03-2009 @ 4:24pm

Yeah, the comment seemed odd to me as well. Perhaps it was just poor word choice. It seems to me that saying things like "Dick Cheney is evil" would fall into that category, but who knows...

by: Eric77

09-03-2009 @ 4:24pm

Yeah, the comment seemed odd to me as well. Perhaps it was just poor word choice. It seems to me that saying things like "Dick Cheney is evil" would fall into that category, but who knows...

by: Eric77

09-03-2009 @ 4:28pm

But it was the funeral on Saturday morning that most moved me. I don't know what I was expecting - likely more speeches - but not a traditional Catholic funeral liturgy, complete with Communion. Of course, what else should I have expected from such a Boston Catholic family? Here was the divine irony. At the funeral of the nation's most liberal political leader of the last half-century, a watching nation was treated to a full Catholic Mass.

I remember a similar experience when Paine Stewart, the golfer died tragically back in the late 90s. His funeral was broadcast nationwide on ESPN. Stewart was a Christian and his story of coming to faith and Jesus was told to the hundreds of thousands who were watching. While it wasn't a Catholic Mass, it was a Christian funeral service and everyone who watched was blessed with hearing the message of Christ.

by: Eric77

09-03-2009 @ 4:28pm

But it was the funeral on Saturday morning that most moved me. I don't know what I was expecting - likely more speeches - but not a traditional Catholic funeral liturgy, complete with Communion. Of course, what else should I have expected from such a Boston Catholic family? Here was the divine irony. At the funeral of the nation's most liberal political leader of the last half-century, a watching nation was treated to a full Catholic Mass.

I remember a similar experience when Paine Stewart, the golfer died tragically back in the late 90s. His funeral was broadcast nationwide on ESPN. Stewart was a Christian and his story of coming to faith and Jesus was told to the hundreds of thousands who were watching. While it wasn't a Catholic Mass, it was a Christian funeral service and everyone who watched was blessed with hearing the message of Christ.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 6:24pm

Wallis was actually very charitable toward Falwell -- who had insulted him directly -- on this very website upon Falwell death. And you best believe that he will lionize Billy Graham when he meets his reward.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 6:24pm

Wallis was actually very charitable toward Falwell -- who had insulted him directly -- on this very website upon Falwell death. And you best believe that he will lionize Billy Graham when he meets his reward.

by: calledme

09-03-2009 @ 6:53pm

Perhaps, if you and the rest of us get busy admitting to and working on healing our broken places rather than demonstrating them, there will be too little time to "skewer" those with different visions and more time to commit to becoming real friends and uniters.

by: calledme

09-03-2009 @ 6:53pm

Perhaps, if you and the rest of us get busy admitting to and working on healing our broken places rather than demonstrating them, there will be too little time to "skewer" those with different visions and more time to commit to becoming real friends and uniters.

by: Soulfulpsy

09-03-2009 @ 7:02pm

This is a moving commentary with a challenging lesson: To allow people to change in our own minds by expanding our experience of them to include the beautiful parts as well as those that are ugly.

What makes Ted Kennedy different from those like Cheney? For one thing, Kennedy recognized his serious flaws and failings and strove for years to change and make amends. Yes, Cheney is as much a child of God as Kennedy or anyone else, but I see little evidence of any self-awareness in Cheney nor any significant compassion being directed to those on the margin. Perhaps that will come down the road.

But in the meantime, we could do well by trying to avoid emphasizing the good-bad splits in others and deal with overcoming those in ourselves.

by: Soulfulpsy

09-03-2009 @ 7:02pm

This is a moving commentary with a challenging lesson: To allow people to change in our own minds by expanding our experience of them to include the beautiful parts as well as those that are ugly.

What makes Ted Kennedy different from those like Cheney? For one thing, Kennedy recognized his serious flaws and failings and strove for years to change and make amends. Yes, Cheney is as much a child of God as Kennedy or anyone else, but I see little evidence of any self-awareness in Cheney nor any significant compassion being directed to those on the margin. Perhaps that will come down the road.

But in the meantime, we could do well by trying to avoid emphasizing the good-bad splits in others and deal with overcoming those in ourselves.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 7:10pm

I heard an interview with Billy Graham where he considered himself a Democrat. I don't that one will work. Try somebody else.

by: ando

09-03-2009 @ 7:10pm

I heard an interview with Billy Graham where he considered himself a Democrat. I don't that one will work. Try somebody else.

by: megrinaldi

09-03-2009 @ 7:18pm

i so appreciate this website and jim's commentaries. it is an easy habit to get into judging others. it can be a form of laziness: when i judge someone and put them out of my heart, i dont have to reflect too deeply. i can judge and just move into my day.

dropping judgement does not mean dropping discernment. it does indeed require the capacity to stay w. paradox. most things in life are not 'either or' rather they fall into the catagory of 'both/and'. that requires a deeper faith that has been tested by the complexities of human life presented to each of us.

by: megrinaldi

09-03-2009 @ 7:18pm

i so appreciate this website and jim's commentaries. it is an easy habit to get into judging others. it can be a form of laziness: when i judge someone and put them out of my heart, i dont have to reflect too deeply. i can judge and just move into my day.

dropping judgement does not mean dropping discernment. it does indeed require the capacity to stay w. paradox. most things in life are not 'either or' rather they fall into the catagory of 'both/and'. that requires a deeper faith that has been tested by the complexities of human life presented to each of us.

by: ourfoundingtruth

09-03-2009 @ 7:36pm

I seriously douby Ted Kennedy was born again. The Lord judge's with all righteousness to any who is not ignorant, that sheds the blood of the innocent.

by: ourfoundingtruth

09-03-2009 @ 7:36pm

I seriously douby Ted Kennedy was born again. The Lord judge's with all righteousness to any who is not ignorant, that sheds the blood of the innocent.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 7:41pm

Billy Graham is a Southerner, and when he was coming up virtually all Southerners were Democrats -- the Republican Party was virtually non-existent in the South until the 1960s. Unlike most, however, he found no need to change his registration.

by: BlueDeacon

09-03-2009 @ 7:41pm

Billy Graham is a Southerner, and when he was coming up virtually all Southerners were Democrats -- the Republican Party was virtually non-existent in the South until the 1960s. Unlike most, however, he found no need to change his registration.

by: squeaky

09-03-2009 @ 8:30pm

Thank you.

by: squeaky

09-03-2009 @ 8:30pm

Thank you.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 10:52pm

How do you respond to those who are intolerant and condemning of other's shortcomings??

He just shares that his response is to be suspect. It's an honest response. He doesn't identify it as either noble or despicable. I don't think sharing what is a quite common response to equate to hypocrisy.

I sometimes (quite often) do not think his language about conservatives matches up to what he says he wants to accomplish regarding a new dialogue. But I do not think his language or spirit is lacking in graciousnes.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-03-2009 @ 10:52pm

How do you respond to those who are intolerant and condemning of other's shortcomings??

He just shares that his response is to be suspect. It's an honest response. He doesn't identify it as either noble or despicable. I don't think sharing what is a quite common response to equate to hypocrisy.

I sometimes (quite often) do not think his language about conservatives matches up to what he says he wants to accomplish regarding a new dialogue. But I do not think his language or spirit is lacking in graciousnes.

by: xfree9

09-03-2009 @ 11:46pm

Good example to the contrary (and I agree with you about Graham), but that doesn't disprove his point. Wallis is on record oftentimes saying he doesn't like Sarah Palin, John McCain, and typically does talk down to conservatives.

by: xfree9

09-03-2009 @ 11:46pm

Good example to the contrary (and I agree with you about Graham), but that doesn't disprove his point. Wallis is on record oftentimes saying he doesn't like Sarah Palin, John McCain, and typically does talk down to conservatives.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:19am

I never once heard Wallis denounce McCain. When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that. Contrary to what people may believe, he's not at all being divisive; he's only exposing the divisiveness that has already existed for over 30 years. (Similar to the things MLK Jr. was accused of during the civil-rights movement.)

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:19am

I never once heard Wallis denounce McCain. When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that. Contrary to what people may believe, he's not at all being divisive; he's only exposing the divisiveness that has already existed for over 30 years. (Similar to the things MLK Jr. was accused of during the civil-rights movement.)

by: Eric77

09-04-2009 @ 12:03pm

When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that.

At times I think Wallis is right about that too. It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made - that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings. People's shortcomings are condemned all the time on this blog.

by: Eric77

09-04-2009 @ 12:03pm

When he criticizes conservatives, however, it's not just because he disagrees with their policies, although he does -- it's more their arrogance and unwillingness to work with those who disagree with them, and in fact he's right about that.

At times I think Wallis is right about that too. It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made - that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings. People's shortcomings are condemned all the time on this blog.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:26pm

It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made -- that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings.

Well, when you consider that the people who do that gained power in the first place by scapegoating others in that fashion, I think he's standing on solid ground. For example, "bashing 'big government'" -- which, essentially, is code for using the political process to help the poor -- was in vague in the 1980s and used for the sake of polarization, and I personally denounced that. More to the point, if you identify yourself as a Christian your faith was questioned; five years ago Wallis published on this very blog an insult that Falwell had delivered -- that he was "as evangelical as an oak tree."

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 12:26pm

It still doesn't explain the odd statement that Wallis made -- that he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings.

Well, when you consider that the people who do that gained power in the first place by scapegoating others in that fashion, I think he's standing on solid ground. For example, "bashing 'big government'" -- which, essentially, is code for using the political process to help the poor -- was in vague in the 1980s and used for the sake of polarization, and I personally denounced that. More to the point, if you identify yourself as a Christian your faith was questioned; five years ago Wallis published on this very blog an insult that Falwell had delivered -- that he was "as evangelical as an oak tree."

by: lumens

09-04-2009 @ 1:51pm

Nobody is arguing whether it's right or wrong to point out shortcomings. The point is that Wallis is saying he doesn't trust people who do as he does.

That's hypocrisy, pure and simple.

by: lumens

09-04-2009 @ 1:51pm

Nobody is arguing whether it's right or wrong to point out shortcomings. The point is that Wallis is saying he doesn't trust people who do as he does.

That's hypocrisy, pure and simple.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 2:22pm

That's not what he was taking about. More to the point, he was talking about people who made themselves into household names with sheer demagoguery, throwing red meat to a hateful, spiteful audience and, in some cases, telling them outright whoppers and refusing to be confronted about them. Sorry if you don't think that's legitimate.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 2:22pm

That's not what he was taking about. More to the point, he was talking about people who made themselves into household names with sheer demagoguery, throwing red meat to a hateful, spiteful audience and, in some cases, telling them outright whoppers and refusing to be confronted about them. Sorry if you don't think that's legitimate.

by: Eric77

09-04-2009 @ 3:35pm

It sounds like what you're saying is that its not inconsistent for Wallis to say he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings even though he, himself, condemns other people's shortcomings because the people he's condemning (even though he never names who they are in his piece above) gained power by condemning other people's shortcomings. So basically, it's not inconsistent because it's a tit for tat thing.

by: Eric77

09-04-2009 @ 3:35pm

It sounds like what you're saying is that its not inconsistent for Wallis to say he doesn't trust people who condemn other people's shortcomings even though he, himself, condemns other people's shortcomings because the people he's condemning (even though he never names who they are in his piece above) gained power by condemning other people's shortcomings. So basically, it's not inconsistent because it's a tit for tat thing.

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 4:29pm

No -- the conservatives use the "shortcomings" of others for the sake of the kind of power that Wallis doesn't have or seek, all the while ignoring their own; examples are far too many to mention here. I remember well the 1980 general election campaign, which from the Republican side was pretty nasty (the Democrats never knew what hit them); things simply haven't changed because, frankly, they won with it. They got upset with Bill Clinton only because he wouldn't go down like the rest.

A conservative columnist for my newspaper bashed Ted Kennedy this week for his role in the Robert Bork SCOTUS hearings, blaming him for the bitter partisanship we see today. The piece, however, ignored Bork's consistent record of overt judicial activism, and after he lost Bork even suggested that the U.S. pass a Constitutional amendment that would allow a super-majority of both houses of Congress to overrule any SCOTUS decision. (And then the conservatives have the audacity to accuse "liberals" of such.)

by: BlueDeacon

09-04-2009 @ 4:29pm

No -- the conservatives use the "shortcomings" of others for the sake of the kind of power that Wallis doesn't have or seek, all the while ignoring their own; examples are far too many to mention here. I remember well the 1980 general election campaign, which from the Republican side was pretty nasty (the Democrats never knew what hit them); things simply haven't changed because, frankly, they won with it. They got upset with Bill Clinton only because he wouldn't go down like the rest.

A conservative columnist for my newspaper bashed Ted Kennedy this week for his role in the Robert Bork SCOTUS hearings, blaming him for the bitter partisanship we see today. The piece, however, ignored Bork's consistent record of overt judicial activism, and after he lost Bork even suggested that the U.S. pass a Constitutional amendment that would allow a super-majority of both houses of Congress to overrule any SCOTUS decision. (And then the conservatives have the audacity to accuse "liberals" of such.)

by: lumens

09-04-2009 @ 10:18pm

He was pretty clearly talking about those who criticized Kennedy for his shortcomings. Nothing else makes sense in this context. Wallis does the same. Again, hypocrisy.

by: lumens

09-04-2009 @ 10:18pm

He was pretty clearly talking about those who criticized Kennedy for his shortcomings. Nothing else makes sense in this context. Wallis does the same. Again, hypocrisy.

by: calledme

09-04-2009 @ 10:55pm

And on and on it goes...you skewer Jim Wallis and become guilty of the same thing you accuse him of.

That whole speck in someone else's eye vs. the log in our own gets so inconvenient sometimes -- the minute we accuse someone else of some shortcoming we generally are doing the same thing we criticize.

And just an aside -- just once, I would love to see a challenge to our perspectives of Christianity and social justice go anywhere -- anywhere -- besides arguments about who should rule the country -- liberals or conservatives. In the end, I don't even think our political affiliation will be anywhere on the list of questions Jesus poses to us.

by: calledme

09-04-2009 @ 10:55pm

And on and on it goes...you skewer Jim Wallis and become guilty of the same thing you accuse him of.

That whole speck in someone else's eye vs. the log in our own gets so inconvenient sometimes -- the minute we accuse someone else of some shortcoming we generally are doing the same thing we criticize.

And just an aside -- just once, I would love to see a challenge to our perspectives of Christianity and social justice go anywhere -- anywhere -- besides arguments about who should rule the country -- liberals or conservatives. In the end, I don't even think our political affiliation will be anywhere on the list of questions Jesus poses to us.

by: ando

09-04-2009 @ 11:26pm

calledme,

Are you criticizing only the critics of Jim Wallis? He set himself up for this by attempting to turn Ted Kennedy into a saint. Perhaps the whole blog was a useless exercise on both sides...

by: ando

09-04-2009 @ 11:26pm

calledme,

Are you criticizing only the critics of Jim Wallis? He set himself up for this by attempting to turn Ted Kennedy into a saint. Perhaps the whole blog was a useless exercise on both sides...

by: calledme

09-05-2009 @ 3:02am

No, I'm using the criticism of Jim Wallis as an example. There is no hidden agenda here.

Thoughtful reflection even with opposing opinions isn't a useless exercise. Reading a blog and commenting only about how much you dislike the author does strike me as pretty useless.

Whether or not I agree with Jim Wallis, it's just nice to reflect on something positive without poisoning it by trying to find flaws 'cause you despise the author.

by: calledme

09-05-2009 @ 3:02am

No, I'm using the criticism of Jim Wallis as an example. There is no hidden agenda here.

Thoughtful reflection even with opposing opinions isn't a useless exercise. Reading a blog and commenting only about how much you dislike the author does strike me as pretty useless.

Whether or not I agree with Jim Wallis, it's just nice to reflect on something positive without poisoning it by trying to find flaws 'cause you despise the author.