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Hope is a Verb

I was too young to remember President John F. Kennedy. My mother worked on his campaign and hauled her baby (me) along with her to pass out literature. She assures me that one of my first words was "k-e-n-d-y." I was barely 4 when he was shot. Years later, I asked my mother what was so special about President Kennedy. Without hesitating, she replied, "He gave us hope. Hope that things could change. We needed that." She paused and a look of sadness swept across her face. "And it was taken away. Too soon. They killed hope."

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Hope may be shot, taken in an instant of murderous violence. But this summer we have witnessed another way of killing hope -- vicious rumor, cynical politics, manipulation, lies, gossip, and fear-mongering. Hope doesn't die in an instant. Instead, it has been walking a way of sorrows and put on a cross, whipped, laughed at, life slowly beaten away, breath halting, and joints stretched in pain. It is a gruesome image, but it needs to be. Without hope, a people and their civilization cannot survive. The Bible teaches that. History teaches that. To purposefully kill hope is a sin, especially when its only replacement is fear. No society can flourish with fear as its base.

Over the summer, mainline Protestant clergy have reported to me an increase in fear in their congregations -- overt xenophobia and nativism, racist epithets, terrified elderly people thinking their government was about to murder them, threats not to preach on anything related to health and healing (what then, I ask, can clergy possibly preach about if not health?), congregants stocking up on weapons, and people coming armed to church. One such clergyperson (an army vet), joked that he was looking for a clergy supply store that sells Kevlar vestments to wear while celebrating the Lord's Supper.

Churches are in the hope business. Yet, even they are struggling to hold on to hope. "I feel so alone," one of my minister-friends confided. "Just a few months ago, it seemed like we could change the world. Now, everyone is running for cover. People are scared." Over and over again, I've heard the same refrain: What can we do to stop the fear?

Well, one way to overcome fear is to preach healing. Because Christians are also in the healing business. Actually, the three great monotheistic faiths all teach that God's desire to heal a broken universe is the central point of faith, that shalom -- peace, healing, surrender, and salvation -- are the very reason for human existence. In great religious traditions and in lively spirituality, hope and healing are interconnected. You can't have one without the other.

For some reason, the White House seems to think that hope is a noun. Once you put it on a poster, or have millions of people vote for it, then it simply is. But hope is not a noun. Hope is a verb. It is active, ever-living, restless. It needs to be nurtured, taught, envisioned, shared. Hope for healing; hope for community; hope for global brother- and sisterhood; hope for transformation; hope for a world where neighbors do unto others; hope for a future of grace, mercy, and love.

Hope is that business of faith communities. But it is also the business of political leaders. And that's what President Obama needs to get back to tonight. Sure, he needs to talk about health care and public options, costs, job creation, and policy points. More than anything, we need the president to lead back to hope. You can't have health without hope. The fear-mongers have had their season. But the hope-killing time is over. We who know the active power of hope need to stand up. It is a time for growing hope again.

Diana Butler BassDiana Butler Bass is pretty much a postmodern progressive. In addition to blogging here, she also blogs at Progressive Revival and is the author of the new book, A People's History of Christianity: The Other Side of the Story.

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by: ando

09-09-2009 @ 10:20pm

"Hope is building a boat, getting into it and pushing off in a new direction."

Let's see, I must have missed that verse in my Bible. Or, perhaps it's from the Dalai Lama?

by: justintime

09-10-2009 @ 12:20am

I really can't remember where that came from in the first place.
I've found it useful many times before.
If you find the source, let me know.

by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 2:55pm

The orthodox Christian view would find no fault with the verse. It's the essence of Christian faith.

by: eagle77

11-30-2009 @ 7:28pm

I am disheartened by this "discussion". I totally agree with you, Anothernonymous, when you write, "Friends, this is not how Christians talk to each other." No wonder the non-Christian world looks at us and say, "If that's what it means to be Christian, I don't need it and I don't want it."

by: jazzact13

09-10-2009 @ 4:16pm

Actually, hope could be defined as continuing in the direction your going, because it's the right direction, even if everyone else says it ain't.

That little phrase isn't about hope, only about doing "something new". It says nothing about if the current direction is wrong and the new one right. In that regard, it is more about hopelessness than hope--any direction is as bad an another.

by: eagle77

11-30-2009 @ 9:28pm

I am disheartened by this "discussion". I totally agree with you, Anothernonymous, when you write, "Friends, this is not how Christians talk to each other." No wonder the non-Christian world looks at us and say, "If that's what it means to be Christian, I don't need it and I don't want it."

by: natcoz

09-10-2009 @ 9:50am

So many times it all comes down to structure vs. freedom.

Gov't fails because it is too much man-made structure, and man-made structure is awkward and cumbersome. Gov't that interferes with natural indicators and attempts to usurp natural law will always fail. If we always thing more structure (i.e. more regulation, a new bureaucracy, etc.) will solve our problems, we've ceased looking to God. We're practicing idolatry.

Structure has it's place, but it can quickly lead us astray. We need to spend more time studying the mechanisms of freedom and consequence that God built into the universe.

"Building a boat" ... another bureaucracy, more regulation, etc, may be exactly the opposite of what we need.

by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 10:49am

No doubt people in developing countries will also find it useful...except
they'll need to find the wood and metal to build first.

"Our hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus' blood and righteousness."

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-10-2009 @ 12:41pm

That verse isn't in the Bible either.

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08-13-2011 @ 2:08am

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08-13-2011 @ 2:08am

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by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 2:55pm

The orthodox Christian view would find no fault with the verse. It's the essence of Christian faith.

by: canucklehead

09-15-2009 @ 4:09pm

"You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right? A monosyllabic answer of "yes" or "no" will suffice."

If this is the question you're talking about, it's nonsense.

by: jazzact13

09-10-2009 @ 4:16pm

Actually, hope could be defined as continuing in the direction your going, because it's the right direction, even if everyone else says it ain't.

That little phrase isn't about hope, only about doing "something new". It says nothing about if the current direction is wrong and the new one right. In that regard, it is more about hopelessness than hope--any direction is as bad an another.

by: canucklehead

09-15-2009 @ 4:33pm

?You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right?"

If the only options are the kind of hope he/she are referring to in her post and the kind of fear that oozes from your original serene response (which partly reflects the very kind of fear she was attempting to address, btw), there really is no choice to be made here.

by: canucklehead

09-10-2009 @ 7:33pm

you suffer from "I" trouble, fella

by: canucklehead

09-15-2009 @ 4:09pm

"You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right? A monosyllabic answer of "yes" or "no" will suffice."

If this is the question you're talking about, it's nonsense.

by: canucklehead

09-15-2009 @ 4:33pm

?You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right?"

If the only options are the kind of hope he/she are referring to in her post and the kind of fear that oozes from your original serene response (which partly reflects the very kind of fear she was attempting to address, btw), there really is no choice to be made here.

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08-15-2011 @ 7:24am

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by: canucklehead

09-10-2009 @ 7:33pm

you suffer from "I" trouble, fella

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by: jazzact13

09-11-2009 @ 4:43pm

When you have a real response to what I'm saying, canucklehead, please give it. Until then, please return to the peanut gallery.

by: canucklehead

09-11-2009 @ 10:58pm

I stand by the comment; it's really not that difficult to understand.

by: eagle77

11-30-2009 @ 7:28pm

I am disheartened by this "discussion". I totally agree with you, Anothernonymous, when you write, "Friends, this is not how Christians talk to each other." No wonder the non-Christian world looks at us and say, "If that's what it means to be Christian, I don't need it and I don't want it."

by: jazzact13

09-11-2009 @ 4:43pm

When you have a real response to what I'm saying, canucklehead, please give it. Until then, please return to the peanut gallery.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 12:36pm

To break it down for you, I take Canuckle is saying your response indicates you are egocentric based on your use of the first person 9 times in three sentences. And that is supposed to constitute a "real response" to this article.

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 1:41pm

And it is a real response. If anything, the fact that some minister-friend can bemoan the fact that he and his kind can no longer "manage the world" is itself enough to put paid to whatever it is he want.

And if all you have is that I used "I" several times in my response, you have nothing. As I said, get a real argument.

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by: eagle77

11-30-2009 @ 9:28pm

I am disheartened by this "discussion". I totally agree with you, Anothernonymous, when you write, "Friends, this is not how Christians talk to each other." No wonder the non-Christian world looks at us and say, "If that's what it means to be Christian, I don't need it and I don't want it."

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 3:20pm

Classact13: The substance of your argument has overwhelmed me. I agree that you should earn what the free market dictates you should (which history dictates would be far below what you are earning today no matter what your job). While we're at it' we can outlaw all the unions-those great destroyers of our economy. Social Security and all of it's contingent "benefits, like disability should be eliminated since that to is others telling you how much you can keep/earn. Same thing for Medicare, that boondoggle of a government program since it too tells you what kind of healthcare you can receive. For that matter we should dispose of health insurance companies telling you what kind of healthcare you can receive also. Just pay for what you can afford with all that money you would be earning/saving under your "nobody tells anybody what to do" system. We can eliminate the standing army and it's accompanying massive waste that you are being stolen from to support. I am also fed up with being told where I can go in this country. We should eliminate the subsidies for public transit, fares on the interstates and bridges (that whole ez pass thing is just the mark of the beast anyway) and all the taxes on gasoline should be repealed. Then we could really go somewhere. All that evil Great Society stuff should be deleted. WIC, Head Start, Medicaid, HEAP, AFDC...these can all go away so I can do what I want with my big heap of money that the free market is going to release into my coffers. All those Federal regulatory agencies can be eliminated too. Especially the FCC, Energy and FDA regulators that keep abusive and hateful speech off the public airways, control what food and medicine I can take and manipulate the source and price of energy. If I want smut, snake oil and my own nuclear plant, I should have it. Get rid of the ATF, FBI and CIA. Heck, let's get rid of the whole thing, since none of it can be trusted and is the source of all that is evil in America. Hallelujah, I've been redeemed.

by: JaneinWNY

09-12-2009 @ 4:36pm

Pastor Jeff, that may be the funniest comment I have ever read.

I wonder if you should have marked it "sarcasm"; I am afraid some posters will think you are serious and agree with you.

Jane

by: canucklehead

09-11-2009 @ 10:58pm

I stand by the comment; it's really not that difficult to understand.

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:37pm

"S-S-S-Sumbuddah seh GUH-LO-O-O-O-EEEE!"

I'z lookin' fer me copy of De Hallelujer Chorus!

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by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:38pm

woops, SARCASM, thanks Jane!

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 12:36pm

To break it down for you, I take Canuckle is saying your response indicates you are egocentric based on your use of the first person 9 times in three sentences. And that is supposed to constitute a "real response" to this article.

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by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 1:41pm

And it is a real response. If anything, the fact that some minister-friend can bemoan the fact that he and his kind can no longer "manage the world" is itself enough to put paid to whatever it is he want.

And if all you have is that I used "I" several times in my response, you have nothing. As I said, get a real argument.

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 10:13pm

Ah, so you're saying that you DO want this minster-friend and such to tell you how much you can earn, how much health care you can receive, where you can go, what kinds of light bulbs you much use, who you may and may not listen to and watch on radio and tv, and to decide when your usefulness to society has ended???

And what comes to my mind is a slight paraphrasing of Eil Wallach's Caldera in "The Magnificent Seven". "If you were not meant to be fleeced, God would not have made you a sheep."

Perhaps you should not go to a peanut gallery. You may encounter a more noble animal like an elephant, in whose presence you would be shown to be sadly lacking. I'm reasonably certain there's a flock waiting for you somewhere, not to mention fleecers.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 3:20pm

Classact13: The substance of your argument has overwhelmed me. I agree that you should earn what the free market dictates you should (which history dictates would be far below what you are earning today no matter what your job). While we're at it' we can outlaw all the unions-those great destroyers of our economy. Social Security and all of it's contingent "benefits, like disability should be eliminated since that to is others telling you how much you can keep/earn. Same thing for Medicare, that boondoggle of a government program since it too tells you what kind of healthcare you can receive. For that matter we should dispose of health insurance companies telling you what kind of healthcare you can receive also. Just pay for what you can afford with all that money you would be earning/saving under your "nobody tells anybody what to do" system. We can eliminate the standing army and it's accompanying massive waste that you are being stolen from to support. I am also fed up with being told where I can go in this country. We should eliminate the subsidies for public transit, fares on the interstates and bridges (that whole ez pass thing is just the mark of the beast anyway) and all the taxes on gasoline should be repealed. Then we could really go somewhere. All that evil Great Society stuff should be deleted. WIC, Head Start, Medicaid, HEAP, AFDC...these can all go away so I can do what I want with my big heap of money that the free market is going to release into my coffers. All those Federal regulatory agencies can be eliminated too. Especially the FCC, Energy and FDA regulators that keep abusive and hateful speech off the public airways, control what food and medicine I can take and manipulate the source and price of energy. If I want smut, snake oil and my own nuclear plant, I should have it. Get rid of the ATF, FBI and CIA. Heck, let's get rid of the whole thing, since none of it can be trusted and is the source of all that is evil in America. Hallelujah, I've been redeemed.

by: canucklehead

09-13-2009 @ 1:49am

I'm sorry, jazz, I'll try to use only monosyllable words for you from now on; that appears to be a specialty of yours as per Pasta Jeff below

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by: JaneinWNY

09-12-2009 @ 4:36pm

Pastor Jeff, that may be the funniest comment I have ever read.

I wonder if you should have marked it "sarcasm"; I am afraid some posters will think you are serious and agree with you.

Jane

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:37pm

"S-S-S-Sumbuddah seh GUH-LO-O-O-O-EEEE!"

I'z lookin' fer me copy of De Hallelujer Chorus!

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:38pm

woops, SARCASM, thanks Jane!

by: jazzact13

09-14-2009 @ 4:09pm

Why not just state the truth. You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right? A monosyllabic answer of "yes" or "no" will suffice.

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 10:13pm

Ah, so you're saying that you DO want this minster-friend and such to tell you how much you can earn, how much health care you can receive, where you can go, what kinds of light bulbs you much use, who you may and may not listen to and watch on radio and tv, and to decide when your usefulness to society has ended???

And what comes to my mind is a slight paraphrasing of Eil Wallach's Caldera in "The Magnificent Seven". "If you were not meant to be fleeced, God would not have made you a sheep."

Perhaps you should not go to a peanut gallery. You may encounter a more noble animal like an elephant, in whose presence you would be shown to be sadly lacking. I'm reasonably certain there's a flock waiting for you somewhere, not to mention fleecers.

by: jazzact13

09-14-2009 @ 4:23pm

And you speak using simple words as if that is suppose to be denigration. I think I"ll take the opinion of someone else as being of more value than yours.

"Long words go rattling by us like long railway trains. We know they are carrying thousands who are too tired or too indolent to walk and think for themselves. It is a good exercise to try for once in a way to express any opinion one holds in words of one syllable. If you say "The social utility of the indeterminate sentence is recognized by all criminologists as a part of our sociological evolution towards a more humane and scientific view of punishment," you can go on talking like that for hours with hardly a movement of the gray matter inside your skull. But if you begin "I wish Jones to go to gaol and Brown to say when Jones shall come out," you will discover, with a thrill of horror, that you are obliged
to think. The long words are not the hard words, it is the short words that are hard. There is much more metaphysical subtlety in the word "damn" than in the word "degeneration."
Chesterton, Orthodoxy, chapter VIII

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by: jazzact13

09-09-2009 @ 5:02pm

--I feel so alone," one of my minister-friends confided. "Just a few months ago, it seemed like we could change the world.

And there's the problem--I DON'T WANT THE MINISTER-FRIEND TO MANAGE THE WORLD!!! I don't need him and you, Butler-Bass, playing small gods with the world. I don't want you and your ilk deciding how much money I can earn, how much health care I can receive, where I can go, what kind of light bulbs I can use, who I can listen to on the radio or watch on tv, and when I has ceased to be useful to society.

by: jazzact13

09-09-2009 @ 5:02pm

--I feel so alone," one of my minister-friends confided. "Just a few months ago, it seemed like we could change the world.

And there's the problem--I DON'T WANT THE MINISTER-FRIEND TO MANAGE THE WORLD!!! I don't need him and you, Butler-Bass, playing small gods with the world. I don't want you and your ilk deciding how much money I can earn, how much health care I can receive, where I can go, what kind of light bulbs I can use, who I can listen to on the radio or watch on tv, and when I has ceased to be useful to society.

by: Eric77

09-09-2009 @ 5:31pm

I think this is a story of misplaced or misdirected hope. I, like Diana, hope for a better world and for change. But I don't place my hope in one man or woman or even a group of people to change things from the top down. I understand people who fear or reject that type of change. No one likes to be told by an earthly authority who lives hundreds or thousands of miles and has no stake in your community to change. People who hope for system-wide change over the course of a few short months have misplaced their hope.

I place my hope in the actions of community and local leaders to change things close to home. I expect people in Washington to disappoint me. I expect them to be pretty clueless about my needs and the needs of my neighbors. Expecting better of them is false hope. When my local leaders and my neighbors fail me, it's then that I feel disappointed. But most importantly, I place my hope in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that He will change hearts and minds. I hope that I may play a small role in that as well. I know this is where Diana places her ultimate hope as well, and I'm glad we're in agreement on that.

by: Eric77

09-09-2009 @ 5:31pm

I think this is a story of misplaced or misdirected hope. I, like Diana, hope for a better world and for change. But I don't place my hope in one man or woman or even a group of people to change things from the top down. I understand people who fear or reject that type of change. No one likes to be told by an earthly authority who lives hundreds or thousands of miles and has no stake in your community to change. People who hope for system-wide change over the course of a few short months have misplaced their hope.

I place my hope in the actions of community and local leaders to change things close to home. I expect people in Washington to disappoint me. I expect them to be pretty clueless about my needs and the needs of my neighbors. Expecting better of them is false hope. When my local leaders and my neighbors fail me, it's then that I feel disappointed. But most importantly, I place my hope in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that He will change hearts and minds. I hope that I may play a small role in that as well. I know this is where Diana places her ultimate hope as well, and I'm glad we're in agreement on that.

by: ando

09-09-2009 @ 7:38pm

"But most importantly, I place my hope in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that He will change hearts and minds. I hope that I may play a small role in that. I know this is where Diana places her ultimate hope as well, and I'm glad this is something we share."

So well said. That really is the hope of especially the developing world, where Christianity is changing many lives. Hope in government seems to be a false one...

by: ando

09-09-2009 @ 7:38pm

"But most importantly, I place my hope in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, that He will change hearts and minds. I hope that I may play a small role in that. I know this is where Diana places her ultimate hope as well, and I'm glad this is something we share."

So well said. That really is the hope of especially the developing world, where Christianity is changing many lives. Hope in government seems to be a false one...

by: justintime

09-09-2009 @ 9:56pm

Hope is building a boat, getting into it and pushing off in a new direction.

by: justintime

09-09-2009 @ 9:56pm

Hope is building a boat, getting into it and pushing off in a new direction.

by: ando

09-09-2009 @ 10:20pm

"Hope is building a boat, getting into it and pushing off in a new direction."

Let's see, I must have missed that verse in my Bible. Or, perhaps it's from the Dalai Lama?

by: ando

09-09-2009 @ 10:20pm

"Hope is building a boat, getting into it and pushing off in a new direction."

Let's see, I must have missed that verse in my Bible. Or, perhaps it's from the Dalai Lama?

by: justintime

09-10-2009 @ 12:20am

I really can't remember where that came from in the first place.
I've found it useful many times before.
If you find the source, let me know.

by: justintime

09-10-2009 @ 12:20am

I really can't remember where that came from in the first place.
I've found it useful many times before.
If you find the source, let me know.

by: natcoz

09-10-2009 @ 9:50am

So many times it all comes down to structure vs. freedom.

Gov't fails because it is too much man-made structure, and man-made structure is awkward and cumbersome. Gov't that interferes with natural indicators and attempts to usurp natural law will always fail. If we always thing more structure (i.e. more regulation, a new bureaucracy, etc.) will solve our problems, we've ceased looking to God. We're practicing idolatry.

Structure has it's place, but it can quickly lead us astray. We need to spend more time studying the mechanisms of freedom and consequence that God built into the universe.

"Building a boat" ... another bureaucracy, more regulation, etc, may be exactly the opposite of what we need.

by: natcoz

09-10-2009 @ 9:50am

So many times it all comes down to structure vs. freedom.

Gov't fails because it is too much man-made structure, and man-made structure is awkward and cumbersome. Gov't that interferes with natural indicators and attempts to usurp natural law will always fail. If we always thing more structure (i.e. more regulation, a new bureaucracy, etc.) will solve our problems, we've ceased looking to God. We're practicing idolatry.

Structure has it's place, but it can quickly lead us astray. We need to spend more time studying the mechanisms of freedom and consequence that God built into the universe.

"Building a boat" ... another bureaucracy, more regulation, etc, may be exactly the opposite of what we need.

by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 10:49am

No doubt people in developing countries will also find it useful...except
they'll need to find the wood and metal to build first.

"Our hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus' blood and righteousness."

by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 10:49am

No doubt people in developing countries will also find it useful...except
they'll need to find the wood and metal to build first.

"Our hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus' blood and righteousness."

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-10-2009 @ 12:41pm

That verse isn't in the Bible either.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-10-2009 @ 12:41pm

That verse isn't in the Bible either.

by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 2:55pm

The orthodox Christian view would find no fault with the verse. It's the essence of Christian faith.

by: ando

09-10-2009 @ 2:55pm

The orthodox Christian view would find no fault with the verse. It's the essence of Christian faith.

by: jazzact13

09-10-2009 @ 4:16pm

Actually, hope could be defined as continuing in the direction your going, because it's the right direction, even if everyone else says it ain't.

That little phrase isn't about hope, only about doing "something new". It says nothing about if the current direction is wrong and the new one right. In that regard, it is more about hopelessness than hope--any direction is as bad an another.

by: jazzact13

09-10-2009 @ 4:16pm

Actually, hope could be defined as continuing in the direction your going, because it's the right direction, even if everyone else says it ain't.

That little phrase isn't about hope, only about doing "something new". It says nothing about if the current direction is wrong and the new one right. In that regard, it is more about hopelessness than hope--any direction is as bad an another.

by: canucklehead

09-10-2009 @ 7:33pm

you suffer from "I" trouble, fella

by: canucklehead

09-10-2009 @ 7:33pm

you suffer from "I" trouble, fella

by: jazzact13

09-11-2009 @ 4:43pm

When you have a real response to what I'm saying, canucklehead, please give it. Until then, please return to the peanut gallery.

by: jazzact13

09-11-2009 @ 4:43pm

When you have a real response to what I'm saying, canucklehead, please give it. Until then, please return to the peanut gallery.

by: canucklehead

09-11-2009 @ 10:58pm

I stand by the comment; it's really not that difficult to understand.

by: canucklehead

09-11-2009 @ 10:58pm

I stand by the comment; it's really not that difficult to understand.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 12:36pm

To break it down for you, I take Canuckle is saying your response indicates you are egocentric based on your use of the first person 9 times in three sentences. And that is supposed to constitute a "real response" to this article.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 12:36pm

To break it down for you, I take Canuckle is saying your response indicates you are egocentric based on your use of the first person 9 times in three sentences. And that is supposed to constitute a "real response" to this article.

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 1:41pm

And it is a real response. If anything, the fact that some minister-friend can bemoan the fact that he and his kind can no longer "manage the world" is itself enough to put paid to whatever it is he want.

And if all you have is that I used "I" several times in my response, you have nothing. As I said, get a real argument.

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 1:41pm

And it is a real response. If anything, the fact that some minister-friend can bemoan the fact that he and his kind can no longer "manage the world" is itself enough to put paid to whatever it is he want.

And if all you have is that I used "I" several times in my response, you have nothing. As I said, get a real argument.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 3:20pm

Classact13: The substance of your argument has overwhelmed me. I agree that you should earn what the free market dictates you should (which history dictates would be far below what you are earning today no matter what your job). While we're at it' we can outlaw all the unions-those great destroyers of our economy. Social Security and all of it's contingent "benefits, like disability should be eliminated since that to is others telling you how much you can keep/earn. Same thing for Medicare, that boondoggle of a government program since it too tells you what kind of healthcare you can receive. For that matter we should dispose of health insurance companies telling you what kind of healthcare you can receive also. Just pay for what you can afford with all that money you would be earning/saving under your "nobody tells anybody what to do" system. We can eliminate the standing army and it's accompanying massive waste that you are being stolen from to support. I am also fed up with being told where I can go in this country. We should eliminate the subsidies for public transit, fares on the interstates and bridges (that whole ez pass thing is just the mark of the beast anyway) and all the taxes on gasoline should be repealed. Then we could really go somewhere. All that evil Great Society stuff should be deleted. WIC, Head Start, Medicaid, HEAP, AFDC...these can all go away so I can do what I want with my big heap of money that the free market is going to release into my coffers. All those Federal regulatory agencies can be eliminated too. Especially the FCC, Energy and FDA regulators that keep abusive and hateful speech off the public airways, control what food and medicine I can take and manipulate the source and price of energy. If I want smut, snake oil and my own nuclear plant, I should have it. Get rid of the ATF, FBI and CIA. Heck, let's get rid of the whole thing, since none of it can be trusted and is the source of all that is evil in America. Hallelujah, I've been redeemed.

by: PASTOR JEFF

09-12-2009 @ 3:20pm

Classact13: The substance of your argument has overwhelmed me. I agree that you should earn what the free market dictates you should (which history dictates would be far below what you are earning today no matter what your job). While we're at it' we can outlaw all the unions-those great destroyers of our economy. Social Security and all of it's contingent "benefits, like disability should be eliminated since that to is others telling you how much you can keep/earn. Same thing for Medicare, that boondoggle of a government program since it too tells you what kind of healthcare you can receive. For that matter we should dispose of health insurance companies telling you what kind of healthcare you can receive also. Just pay for what you can afford with all that money you would be earning/saving under your "nobody tells anybody what to do" system. We can eliminate the standing army and it's accompanying massive waste that you are being stolen from to support. I am also fed up with being told where I can go in this country. We should eliminate the subsidies for public transit, fares on the interstates and bridges (that whole ez pass thing is just the mark of the beast anyway) and all the taxes on gasoline should be repealed. Then we could really go somewhere. All that evil Great Society stuff should be deleted. WIC, Head Start, Medicaid, HEAP, AFDC...these can all go away so I can do what I want with my big heap of money that the free market is going to release into my coffers. All those Federal regulatory agencies can be eliminated too. Especially the FCC, Energy and FDA regulators that keep abusive and hateful speech off the public airways, control what food and medicine I can take and manipulate the source and price of energy. If I want smut, snake oil and my own nuclear plant, I should have it. Get rid of the ATF, FBI and CIA. Heck, let's get rid of the whole thing, since none of it can be trusted and is the source of all that is evil in America. Hallelujah, I've been redeemed.

by: JaneinWNY

09-12-2009 @ 4:36pm

Pastor Jeff, that may be the funniest comment I have ever read.

I wonder if you should have marked it "sarcasm"; I am afraid some posters will think you are serious and agree with you.

Jane

by: JaneinWNY

09-12-2009 @ 4:36pm

Pastor Jeff, that may be the funniest comment I have ever read.

I wonder if you should have marked it "sarcasm"; I am afraid some posters will think you are serious and agree with you.

Jane

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:37pm

"S-S-S-Sumbuddah seh GUH-LO-O-O-O-EEEE!"

I'z lookin' fer me copy of De Hallelujer Chorus!

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:37pm

"S-S-S-Sumbuddah seh GUH-LO-O-O-O-EEEE!"

I'z lookin' fer me copy of De Hallelujer Chorus!

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:38pm

woops, SARCASM, thanks Jane!

by: canucklehead

09-12-2009 @ 8:38pm

woops, SARCASM, thanks Jane!

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 10:13pm

Ah, so you're saying that you DO want this minster-friend and such to tell you how much you can earn, how much health care you can receive, where you can go, what kinds of light bulbs you much use, who you may and may not listen to and watch on radio and tv, and to decide when your usefulness to society has ended???

And what comes to my mind is a slight paraphrasing of Eil Wallach's Caldera in "The Magnificent Seven". "If you were not meant to be fleeced, God would not have made you a sheep."

Perhaps you should not go to a peanut gallery. You may encounter a more noble animal like an elephant, in whose presence you would be shown to be sadly lacking. I'm reasonably certain there's a flock waiting for you somewhere, not to mention fleecers.

by: jazzact13

09-12-2009 @ 10:13pm

Ah, so you're saying that you DO want this minster-friend and such to tell you how much you can earn, how much health care you can receive, where you can go, what kinds of light bulbs you much use, who you may and may not listen to and watch on radio and tv, and to decide when your usefulness to society has ended???

And what comes to my mind is a slight paraphrasing of Eil Wallach's Caldera in "The Magnificent Seven". "If you were not meant to be fleeced, God would not have made you a sheep."

Perhaps you should not go to a peanut gallery. You may encounter a more noble animal like an elephant, in whose presence you would be shown to be sadly lacking. I'm reasonably certain there's a flock waiting for you somewhere, not to mention fleecers.

by: canucklehead

09-13-2009 @ 1:49am

I'm sorry, jazz, I'll try to use only monosyllable words for you from now on; that appears to be a specialty of yours as per Pasta Jeff below

by: canucklehead

09-13-2009 @ 1:49am

I'm sorry, jazz, I'll try to use only monosyllable words for you from now on; that appears to be a specialty of yours as per Pasta Jeff below

by: jazzact13

09-14-2009 @ 4:09pm

Why not just state the truth. You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right? A monosyllabic answer of "yes" or "no" will suffice.

by: jazzact13

09-14-2009 @ 4:09pm

Why not just state the truth. You do want people like this minister-friend of DBBs to set all the rules for you, right? A monosyllabic answer of "yes" or "no" will suffice.

by: jazzact13

09-14-2009 @ 4:23pm

And you speak using simple words as if that is suppose to be denigration. I think I"ll take the opinion of someone else as being of more value than yours.

"Long words go rattling by us like long railway trains. We know they are carrying thousands who are too tired or too indolent to walk and think for themselves. It is a good exercise to try for once in a way to express any opinion one holds in words of one syllable. If you say "The social utility of the indeterminate sentence is recognized by all criminologists as a part of our sociological evolution towards a more humane and scientific view of punishment," you can go on talking like that for hours with hardly a movement of the gray matter inside your skull. But if you begin "I wish Jones to go to gaol and Brown to say when Jones shall come out," you will discover, with a thrill of horror, that you are obliged
to think. The long words are not the hard words, it is the short words that are hard. There is much more metaphysical subtlety in the word "damn" than in the word "degeneration."
Chesterton, Orthodoxy, chapter VIII

by: jazzact13

09-14-2009 @ 4:23pm

And you speak using simple words as if that is suppose to be denigration. I think I"ll take the opinion of someone else as being of more value than yours.

"Long words go rattling by us like long railway trains. We know they are carrying thousands who are too tired or too indolent to walk and think for themselves. It is a good exercise to try for once in a way to express any opinion one holds in words of one syllable. If you say "The social utility of the indeterminate sentence is recognized by all criminologists as a part of our sociological evolution towards a more humane and scientific view of punishment," you can go on talking like that for hours with hardly a movement of the gray matter inside your skull. But if you begin "I wish Jones to go to gaol and Brown to say when Jones shall come out," you will discover, with a thrill of horror, that you are obliged
to think. The long words are not the hard words, it is the short words that are hard. There is much more metaphysical subtlety in the word "damn" than in the word "degeneration."
Chesterton, Orthodoxy, chapter VIII

by: canucklehead

09-14-2009 @ 10:27pm

I'll take Diana's credentials and perspectives over yours in a heartbeat. How you got what you're purporting her to have said out of what she wrote baffles me! That being said, you are coming along nicely in finding your way around Wikipedia. Today: Chesterton! Tomorrow: Shake's Beer!

by: canucklehead

09-14-2009 @ 10:27pm

I'll take Diana's credentials and perspectives over yours in a heartbeat. How you got what you're purporting her to have said out of what she wrote baffles me! That being said, you are coming along nicely in finding your way around Wikipedia. Today: Chesterton! Tomorrow: Shake's Beer!