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A Comment Code of Conduct Update and Reminder

by Ryan Rodrick Beiler 09-28-2009 | 6:30pm
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Regular commenters on this site may have noticed some slight differences in our Disqus comment system recently. It's never been perfect -- and we still may have a few bugs to sort out -- but I wanted to explain some of the more significant tweaks.

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First of all, we've implemented "Facebook Connect" (that new blue button under "Add New Comment") to allow you to use your Facebook account to login and leave comments on God's Politics blog posts -- rather than creating a Disqus account. If you already have a Disqus login, you may want to log out and try Facebook Connect, since it has features like allowing you to post comments to your Facebook wall for your friends to see (though you always have the choice not to with each comment). Of course, if you're not a Facebook user, you can still create a Disqus account and login the usual way.

Second, instead of "show more comments," there are now numbered pages of comments. I'd been asking for this feature for a long time, and am glad it's finally been implemented to allow you to reach the end of a comment thread more quickly and easily.

Perhaps most importantly to our community moderation model, the "up" and "down" rating buttons on each comment are now gone. I don't know if anybody ever used those anyway. Now, each comment now has a "like" and "report" link. Click "like" if you like a comment and want to spread the love, and "report" if you feel a comment violates our code of conduct, which has been updated and clarified to reflect the change. I'll paste it here, and direct your attention to the last two points for emphasis:

Comment Code of Conduct

I will express myself with civility, courtesy, and respect for every member of the Sojourners online community, especially toward those with whom I disagree -- even if I feel disrespected by them. (Romans 12:17-21)

I will express my disagreements with other community members' ideas without insulting, mocking, or slandering them personally. (Matthew 5:22)

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt. (Ephesians 4:29)

I will hold others accountable by clicking "report" on comments that violate these principles, based not on what ideas are expressed but on how they're expressed. (2 Thessalonians 3:13-15)

I understand that comments reported as abusive are reviewed by Sojourners staff and are subject to removal. Repeat offenders will be blocked from making further comments. (Proverbs 18:7)

I want to emphasize that we're relying on you, our readers, to report abusive posts -- this is what we mean by community moderation. Real staff people do review flagged posts, and delete those that we agree are in violation of our code of conduct, regardless of the political viewpoints that are expressed.

And, to be absolutely clear, if someone is determined to be a repeat offender, they are blocked from making future posts. Our operative metaphor is that of a party to which you've been invited as guests. And while we expect and encourage lively discussion, we are prepared to show the door to anyone who is repeatedly abusive. This includes the smarty pants types who re-register under different user names. Please don't come back to the party with a different costume.

We deliberately do not advertise how many "strikes" before you're out, because again, our operative model is one of hospitality, not legalism. Nor do we have the capacity to issue warnings with personalized explanations, or to haggle over whether this comment or that comment constitutes abuse. We realize and accept that these determinations will always be subjective, and suggest you do the same.

We have limited staff capacity in general, and believe it is better stewardship of our donors' dollars to prioritize staff time for the provision of content than the micro-management of comments. That's why we depend on and sincerely appreciate your active participation and cooperation as members of our online community.

Ryan Rodrick Beiler is the Web Editor for Sojourners and a photographer whose work can be seen at www.ryanrodrickbeiler.com.

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by: PrimaryCareDoc

09-30-2009 @ 10:40pm

Thanks!

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 9:46pm

Jesus wasn't a Christian either so hope you are are as welcome here as Jesus.

by: PrimaryCareDoc

09-30-2009 @ 7:57pm

I am not even a Christian although I grew up around mostly evangelical friends & have what I believe is aa pretty good grounding in evangelical thinking and have read the Bible extensively & frequently.

I don't identify as progressive or conservative either.

But I find that this is a place where people who seem to take their faith very seriously and try very hard to live it out every day engage in more nearly real, honest, deep dialogue around social justice issues than anywhere else on the web I've visited, and the civility level seems much higher than anywhere else that is an open setting.

I plan to keep coming back, and hope to read more real dialogue, and maybe post some thoughts based in my faith tradition.

by: Anothernonymous

09-30-2009 @ 5:02pm

Well said; I couldn't agree more. It's the hijacking that I also don't like. I have no desire to limit healthy, respectful disagreement.

BTW, I'm still having trouble getting to the end of the longer comment threads.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 2:35pm

I believe different comments raise important concerns.

I don't engage this as idle passtime and do not think most persons here do so. Other sites are far worse (in my thinking). But I think many of us also have high expectations--and should.

The question is how to get there. Ashleigh suggests, with merit, that the platform has inherent limits. She suggests a controlled forum for those that want a more focused conversation.

I don't look at the challenge as such a negative. It is a microcosm of the challenge of how we are living out our Christ-journeys in relationship to our citizenship. We have many contexts in which to work this thing out. It does not have to be this blog.

My point, however, is that wherever we show up--this challenge to relationships in which we walk out the good news in relationship with each other, and on mission in this world, remains. Conversation is fundamental to relationship.

The challenge is not only whether I can be self-controlled and govern my own words to reflect God's love--but whether I can learn to use words (and relationships) to bring about better dialogue. I have no problem telling others and myself that we ought do better. Using my words to get us there is another story.

I usually leave conversations when I feel I have reached my limit. i.e. "I am totally powerless to say anything or do anything to alter how this thing is working." And I sign off.

But that is the growth point; or maybe I should say, "Might be the growth point." We do need boundaries and a sense of knowing when it is time to leave a conversation or relationship. But, for me, I know that is also the point that God is growing me--because if I scan across the landscape of my life--I notice myself limiting relationships/conversations at the same point.

If we are to be instruments of God's peace we will have to incarnate patterns of relationships and conversation much different than the world around us.

In regards to Anothernonymous well-stated concern I think my perspective is this: I think the blog represents a question as much as a home for progressive Christians. I think it is legitimate for persons to deliver full-fledged, passionate apologetics for their answers to the question. I do not think it is right to change the question.

I think it is fair to argue, for instance, that a conservative philosophy of governance better defends the well-being of the poor. I don't think it is fair to come on the site and argue it is not an issue.

By analogy, if Family Research Council slapped up a Blog on reducing abortions, I think it legitimate for a full argument about who can best do that, how it can be acccomplished, how Federal policy/law/practices affects that goal, etc. I would not think it legitimate, on that site, for persons who think there is unmet demand for abortion services, that is a constitutional right, and morally acceptable to day-in-and-day-out to come on the site and argue that the FRC's question is wrong. And implicitly demand in every conversation that the FRC engage in an argument defending a pro-life ethic.

It is the hijacking--not the disagreement--that I do not like. It is the shifting of the basic question. e.g. "I know the blog is about faith and politics, but I don't think it ought be about politics." "I know you have a priority commitment to end poverty but I don't think that should be a priortiy commitment." "I know you are committed to political engagement but I don't think we should be involved with government."

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 1:37pm

Do consider there are readers who do not comment back and may love any offering of thoughtful questions and comments you have to make--regardless of whether they agree 100%. Thanks for expressing your experience.

by: genesis11

09-30-2009 @ 12:25pm

I joined this forum only a short time ago. I find it to be peculiarly unfriendly and sharp comments abound. I am not a right winger, but I found my opinions and comments very unwelcome. I am officially getting off of all email lists. Best wishes on chanigng the tone of your forum.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 6:33pm

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt.

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Will there be a "report" button for the post itself?

by: BlueDeacon

09-28-2009 @ 7:07pm

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Well, they don't. But I think those who post blog entries touch a few sore spots that Obama's opponents would prefer not to be addressed -- too many of them take disagreements as personal attacks. Doing so, however, defeats their own argument, and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

by: irb

09-28-2009 @ 7:21pm

Your question is clearly rhetorical. May I ask why you frequent the site if you find it to be so consistently biased?

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 7:24pm

Ryan--thanks for the updates to this blog. They have been a long time in coming, especially with regards to navigation through posts. The blog seems far more agile now--thanks.

Thanks also for the updated code of conduct.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 7:49pm

Thanks, Ryan. As I and others have said here recently, this blog has become a place where we no longer find it worth spending time. I hope that can change, and I'll be watching carefully.

I also want to repeat two things that I said last week. First, whether anybody else likes it or not, this is a blog run by and for progressive Christians. That is the default position here. Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog.

Second, again whether it appears that way to others or not, most progressive Christians are lonely and frustrated and have been for a long time. We have felt for years that our faith is routinely dissed and ridiculed by fellow Christians and by fellow liberals alike, and we yearn for kindred souls with whom we can share our distinctly minority perspective. That is what we came here hoping to find. Instead, we have found that the loudest and most persistent voices have been from the beginning those of right-wingers who, you guessed it, diss and ridicule our faith. It is only human of us to resent this.

Therefore, I want to make a civil, respectful request to anyone considering posting here. If you find the tone employed by the bloggers so repugnant that you cannot read their posts without being offended, please don't respond. There are plenty of other places where your point of view will be received more sympathetically. For many of us, however, the viewpoints that are expressed here are like a spring of water in a parched desert.

It's not that we don't want to talk to you; it's just that we crave a kind of respect that we're not used to getting. Since I started posting here a few years ago, I have had the distinct feeling that there are certain people who have made it their mission to deny us that respect through repeated and aggressive challenges to our very basic assumptions. If you're one of those people, and if it seems to you that we're not listening, please be assured that we are. We just don't agree. We're entitled to that.

Thank you for listening.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:32pm

...and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

Yeah, we agree on that one.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hmmm... honestly, I agree in principle with the theology of Wallis et al, yet the pragmatic methods of social justice I find, well... not very just.

It's crucial to filter what can be understood as good commentary, good essay, and good blogging from the junk stuff, and this blog is no exception. I'm sure people think similarly to my ideas, either here or on my own blog.

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 8:50pm

Here-here!

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 9:12pm

"Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog. "

Interesting perspective , one that I find perhaps should be written into the rules of conduct . If you disagree you need to be more polite then the majority view ? As a Christian would not the teaching be more to be equally just with the majority as with the minority ? Not that is always easy , in fact very hard , but i am sure if you thought about it , and recalled the teachings we both share you would find that to be more like the way I believe God wants us to behave .

If a person is rich , we are not suppose to show them partiality in fairness " Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

If a person is poor we are not also suppose to show them a greater portion within the balance of fairness, "
" Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

We are called to help the poor , and our Love of God causes us I believe to sometimes give the benefit of doubt to a poor person and try to help them regardless " but we are not to assume they are greater or smaller in God's eyes . I think that is sound Bibical understanding ?
to I in who have been the meanies. i
. Thats my view . Say a subject that normally would be understandable , thus giving to the poor . A person who usually may be more for limited government may measure governments success by how many people who don't need help because of effective government policies and allowing those to prosper , then another believer may see governments role as more expansive and disagrees with the more limited government and sees the solution in immediate government help . Why then do we take the attacks from political parties on each other and use them to denigrate believers ? Should not we be showing the world how to be ? Should be in trifle arguments in who is the nice guy ?

It would be pleasurable , in fact enriching in our spirits to see and realize that both understanding reflect scripture , only political means may be different . That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different . Many do not even hold to the scriptures being fully inspired or the Word of God . , often political rhetoric unites . , Assumptions using political talking point sof the negativity of the other .

Say an advocacy for more government immediate help , often sides with the minority of other Christians , because the side that is advocating that larger government also is sides with a secular view that holds Christ in contempt for the Things he taught us . Quote Jesus is the Way and the truth to a secular humanistic dominant view and they will explain to you how that is intolerant , while your thinking its JOY and a great Relief to Have Christ as our Savior , Because He is Real , and will Save Us . That does not fit with many
who share progressive opinions , shared here also , its unfortunate that those with that view and a political progressive view find more in common here .

Chit chat between each other , and actually group comments that all insult the one poster . That is often the case . Look at the posters and who links to their friends , its based on politics, not our love for Christ.

I have been told a few times that My god is different because of a political view . Strange , because my political views have changed often over the last 23 years , but My God has stayed the same .

I guess we can compare owies , But I am sorry for offending you .

Mick

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 9:26pm

"That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Mick -

That, in a nutshell, is the problem. If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers. I am willing to be as charitable toward those who disagree with me as the Lord commands; I just ask them to return the favor. And yes, since progressive Christianity is the starting point here, the respect needs to begin with those who disagree. That's just how it works.

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 10:49pm

"That, in a nutshell, is the problem"

Another That is not exactly was not my point , you just assumed I believed that ? So you just took a comment from perhaps a person you don't know , added a little mis understanding and made a very disrespectfull comment .

no big deal , but the fact i don't believe those with progressive views have a smaller Savior then I supports my Faith , my God knows no political barrier that limits His ability into a Heart of a Open soul .

I will try again . A little while back a person was describing the conservative understanding based in an Ann Rand . The comments became group think . I suggest to you the commenters chit chat brought comments like stanic , and others commented . Yes some of the commenters do not take the Bible seriously that others who make it clear they do . Your belief that the respect needs to begin with those who agree work in non thinking cultures , tribes , and robots . Come on , I can't believe you believe that if someone who may believe in your political view , then states all who disagree and have another philospy has been hi jacked by satanic and godless principlaities . If you want a dialouge with a person , chit chat that agrees with that , on an open board shows a lack of respect . You don't find it strange that only progressive political views supported that ?
Could it be that such comments and dialogue show dis respect for other views . Of course your belief it has merit is something as you say is how it works ? No thats how and why it does not work .

But if you do , that is how it works in your world .

Again sorry for past times I have injured your heart if I have . But your wrong here , as you were when you indicated I thought a progressive is less of a Christian then I . Hopefully there some here who Kinw that is IMPOSSIBLE . I am not saying this for the humble appearance so I can clobber you , but I need your prayers and the prayers of all Christians , I fail and I have flesh .
Don't we all ?

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:07pm

Oh, for heaven's sake, Mick! There was nothing disrespectful about my comment. I was replying to exactly what you said.

Can we all take a deep breath, please?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:11pm

xfree I enjoy your insights and views . Your Faith also shines through , which is not easy in the toxicity that sometimes blogging comes with .

Not a liberaterian , a little one when I take the where are you politically on line test, but I switch on issues , pro life is a big one with me that is a constant . Find myself agreeing with the left as I get older , " thought that was what happened when you were young ;o)"

Great web you have , mind if I join in there . Also the conversations appear to be more respectful then here ..

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 6:33pm

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt.

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Will there be a "report" button for the post itself?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:17pm

"If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers."

Thats not disrespectfull ? Your kidding ? You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government ?

So its OK because you misunderstood ?

Good grief . Thanks giving must be a riot at your house.

by: BlueDeacon

09-28-2009 @ 7:07pm

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Well, they don't. But I think those who post blog entries touch a few sore spots that Obama's opponents would prefer not to be addressed -- too many of them take disagreements as personal attacks. Doing so, however, defeats their own argument, and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:37pm

"You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government?"

No, you apparently think so; at least that's what your comment clearly said, even if you insist that's not what you meant. I have never suggested anything of the sort, and I'm certainly not going to start now. Now will you please stop hurling accusations at me?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:47pm

That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Clarification . If I agree with a person which happens all the time , say on marriage . My understanding of the issue is based on my understanding of what is best for everyone . What God Intended and social science teaches on what is best for children to grow up in , My biased view makes a decsion to support marriage . If You or another Christian disagreed with based on what you thought , say you considered that something that should not be put into law and in fact the result on the stablity of our culture would not be effected , separation of church and state , whatever we could have a good discussion .

But If I took my side , and joined in with a person who has a belief homosexuals need to be treated disresepctfully , and together assaulted your opinion based on your lack of whatever , Is exactly what I was talking to . I don't have a problem with disagreements , you seem to , I have a problem with those of the same political viewpoints making that more important then the two believers working it out and growing .

They should make this a private blog . Your idea would work then .

I

by: irb

09-28-2009 @ 7:21pm

Your question is clearly rhetorical. May I ask why you frequent the site if you find it to be so consistently biased?

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 7:24pm

Ryan--thanks for the updates to this blog. They have been a long time in coming, especially with regards to navigation through posts. The blog seems far more agile now--thanks.

Thanks also for the updated code of conduct.

by: Anothernonymous

09-29-2009 @ 12:03am

Mick, I am trying very hard to hear what you're saying here, but I don't recognize myself in the person you appear to be arguing with. Hence I have nothing more to say.

by: BlueDeacon

09-29-2009 @ 12:50am

That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -- although they represent my personal positions -- are the only issues worth addressing. Besides, we already have a bunch of Christian blogs that actually do that, partly to raise money and maintaining a sense of cultural authority; the problem, however, is that "authority" is not the Christian's primary concern.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 7:49pm

Thanks, Ryan. As I and others have said here recently, this blog has become a place where we no longer find it worth spending time. I hope that can change, and I'll be watching carefully.

I also want to repeat two things that I said last week. First, whether anybody else likes it or not, this is a blog run by and for progressive Christians. That is the default position here. Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog.

Second, again whether it appears that way to others or not, most progressive Christians are lonely and frustrated and have been for a long time. We have felt for years that our faith is routinely dissed and ridiculed by fellow Christians and by fellow liberals alike, and we yearn for kindred souls with whom we can share our distinctly minority perspective. That is what we came here hoping to find. Instead, we have found that the loudest and most persistent voices have been from the beginning those of right-wingers who, you guessed it, diss and ridicule our faith. It is only human of us to resent this.

Therefore, I want to make a civil, respectful request to anyone considering posting here. If you find the tone employed by the bloggers so repugnant that you cannot read their posts without being offended, please don't respond. There are plenty of other places where your point of view will be received more sympathetically. For many of us, however, the viewpoints that are expressed here are like a spring of water in a parched desert.

It's not that we don't want to talk to you; it's just that we crave a kind of respect that we're not used to getting. Since I started posting here a few years ago, I have had the distinct feeling that there are certain people who have made it their mission to deny us that respect through repeated and aggressive challenges to our very basic assumptions. If you're one of those people, and if it seems to you that we're not listening, please be assured that we are. We just don't agree. We're entitled to that.

Thank you for listening.

by: canucklehead

09-29-2009 @ 2:50am

David Gushee had a relevant op-ed in USA Today today.

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 3:12am

"That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -"

Your comment makes no sense to the conversation . My first example was two Chistians speaking about helping the poor , he did not understand it he says . The second attempt was about marriage , I was just making examples Rick of onversations that Christians could disagree on , but yet still have a Love and support of each other as Brothers In Christ .
But when the conversations break down , and secularist use it as divide the Body of Christ for political gain it is detrimental to the church .

my point which I believe you disagree with from previous posts , was that because this is a Progressive site I find no distingusishing differences between any of us and the Love of Christ we receive or are capable of giving . We should seek support and guidance from each other. This site does not do this even though it says its Evangelical , it pits secualrists and other belief systems together while using all forces to attack another . Christians get in the middle and at opposing sides .

.
In either case , the enemy likes it . Sorry I have nothing more to say .

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:32pm

...and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

Yeah, we agree on that one.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hmmm... honestly, I agree in principle with the theology of Wallis et al, yet the pragmatic methods of social justice I find, well... not very just.

It's crucial to filter what can be understood as good commentary, good essay, and good blogging from the junk stuff, and this blog is no exception. I'm sure people think similarly to my ideas, either here or on my own blog.

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 8:50pm

Here-here!

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 9:12pm

"Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog. "

Interesting perspective , one that I find perhaps should be written into the rules of conduct . If you disagree you need to be more polite then the majority view ? As a Christian would not the teaching be more to be equally just with the majority as with the minority ? Not that is always easy , in fact very hard , but i am sure if you thought about it , and recalled the teachings we both share you would find that to be more like the way I believe God wants us to behave .

If a person is rich , we are not suppose to show them partiality in fairness " Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

If a person is poor we are not also suppose to show them a greater portion within the balance of fairness, "
" Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

We are called to help the poor , and our Love of God causes us I believe to sometimes give the benefit of doubt to a poor person and try to help them regardless " but we are not to assume they are greater or smaller in God's eyes . I think that is sound Bibical understanding ?
to I in who have been the meanies. i
. Thats my view . Say a subject that normally would be understandable , thus giving to the poor . A person who usually may be more for limited government may measure governments success by how many people who don't need help because of effective government policies and allowing those to prosper , then another believer may see governments role as more expansive and disagrees with the more limited government and sees the solution in immediate government help . Why then do we take the attacks from political parties on each other and use them to denigrate believers ? Should not we be showing the world how to be ? Should be in trifle arguments in who is the nice guy ?

It would be pleasurable , in fact enriching in our spirits to see and realize that both understanding reflect scripture , only political means may be different . That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different . Many do not even hold to the scriptures being fully inspired or the Word of God . , often political rhetoric unites . , Assumptions using political talking point sof the negativity of the other .

Say an advocacy for more government immediate help , often sides with the minority of other Christians , because the side that is advocating that larger government also is sides with a secular view that holds Christ in contempt for the Things he taught us . Quote Jesus is the Way and the truth to a secular humanistic dominant view and they will explain to you how that is intolerant , while your thinking its JOY and a great Relief to Have Christ as our Savior , Because He is Real , and will Save Us . That does not fit with many
who share progressive opinions , shared here also , its unfortunate that those with that view and a political progressive view find more in common here .

Chit chat between each other , and actually group comments that all insult the one poster . That is often the case . Look at the posters and who links to their friends , its based on politics, not our love for Christ.

I have been told a few times that My god is different because of a political view . Strange , because my political views have changed often over the last 23 years , but My God has stayed the same .

I guess we can compare owies , But I am sorry for offending you .

Mick

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 9:26pm

"That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Mick -

That, in a nutshell, is the problem. If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers. I am willing to be as charitable toward those who disagree with me as the Lord commands; I just ask them to return the favor. And yes, since progressive Christianity is the starting point here, the respect needs to begin with those who disagree. That's just how it works.

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 10:49pm

"That, in a nutshell, is the problem"

Another That is not exactly was not my point , you just assumed I believed that ? So you just took a comment from perhaps a person you don't know , added a little mis understanding and made a very disrespectfull comment .

no big deal , but the fact i don't believe those with progressive views have a smaller Savior then I supports my Faith , my God knows no political barrier that limits His ability into a Heart of a Open soul .

I will try again . A little while back a person was describing the conservative understanding based in an Ann Rand . The comments became group think . I suggest to you the commenters chit chat brought comments like stanic , and others commented . Yes some of the commenters do not take the Bible seriously that others who make it clear they do . Your belief that the respect needs to begin with those who agree work in non thinking cultures , tribes , and robots . Come on , I can't believe you believe that if someone who may believe in your political view , then states all who disagree and have another philospy has been hi jacked by satanic and godless principlaities . If you want a dialouge with a person , chit chat that agrees with that , on an open board shows a lack of respect . You don't find it strange that only progressive political views supported that ?
Could it be that such comments and dialogue show dis respect for other views . Of course your belief it has merit is something as you say is how it works ? No thats how and why it does not work .

But if you do , that is how it works in your world .

Again sorry for past times I have injured your heart if I have . But your wrong here , as you were when you indicated I thought a progressive is less of a Christian then I . Hopefully there some here who Kinw that is IMPOSSIBLE . I am not saying this for the humble appearance so I can clobber you , but I need your prayers and the prayers of all Christians , I fail and I have flesh .
Don't we all ?

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:07pm

Oh, for heaven's sake, Mick! There was nothing disrespectful about my comment. I was replying to exactly what you said.

Can we all take a deep breath, please?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:11pm

xfree I enjoy your insights and views . Your Faith also shines through , which is not easy in the toxicity that sometimes blogging comes with .

Not a liberaterian , a little one when I take the where are you politically on line test, but I switch on issues , pro life is a big one with me that is a constant . Find myself agreeing with the left as I get older , " thought that was what happened when you were young ;o)"

Great web you have , mind if I join in there . Also the conversations appear to be more respectful then here ..

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:17pm

"If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers."

Thats not disrespectfull ? Your kidding ? You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government ?

So its OK because you misunderstood ?

Good grief . Thanks giving must be a riot at your house.

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:03am

Thanks. I don't get tons of traffic, but yeah, join the conversation! It's Disqus-enabled, so it is ready to go for comments.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:37pm

"You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government?"

No, you apparently think so; at least that's what your comment clearly said, even if you insist that's not what you meant. I have never suggested anything of the sort, and I'm certainly not going to start now. Now will you please stop hurling accusations at me?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:47pm

That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Clarification . If I agree with a person which happens all the time , say on marriage . My understanding of the issue is based on my understanding of what is best for everyone . What God Intended and social science teaches on what is best for children to grow up in , My biased view makes a decsion to support marriage . If You or another Christian disagreed with based on what you thought , say you considered that something that should not be put into law and in fact the result on the stablity of our culture would not be effected , separation of church and state , whatever we could have a good discussion .

But If I took my side , and joined in with a person who has a belief homosexuals need to be treated disresepctfully , and together assaulted your opinion based on your lack of whatever , Is exactly what I was talking to . I don't have a problem with disagreements , you seem to , I have a problem with those of the same political viewpoints making that more important then the two believers working it out and growing .

They should make this a private blog . Your idea would work then .

I

by: Anothernonymous

09-29-2009 @ 12:03am

Mick, I am trying very hard to hear what you're saying here, but I don't recognize myself in the person you appear to be arguing with. Hence I have nothing more to say.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-29-2009 @ 12:31pm

Thanks for comments.

by: BlueDeacon

09-29-2009 @ 12:50am

That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -- although they represent my personal positions -- are the only issues worth addressing. Besides, we already have a bunch of Christian blogs that actually do that, partly to raise money and maintaining a sense of cultural authority; the problem, however, is that "authority" is not the Christian's primary concern.

by: canucklehead

09-29-2009 @ 2:50am

David Gushee had a relevant op-ed in USA Today today.

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 3:12am

"That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -"

Your comment makes no sense to the conversation . My first example was two Chistians speaking about helping the poor , he did not understand it he says . The second attempt was about marriage , I was just making examples Rick of onversations that Christians could disagree on , but yet still have a Love and support of each other as Brothers In Christ .
But when the conversations break down , and secularist use it as divide the Body of Christ for political gain it is detrimental to the church .

my point which I believe you disagree with from previous posts , was that because this is a Progressive site I find no distingusishing differences between any of us and the Love of Christ we receive or are capable of giving . We should seek support and guidance from each other. This site does not do this even though it says its Evangelical , it pits secualrists and other belief systems together while using all forces to attack another . Christians get in the middle and at opposing sides .

.
In either case , the enemy likes it . Sorry I have nothing more to say .

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 6:35pm

Understood , will try harder . Is it Ok with you if I speak to church unity ? That I believe is what I as a a fellow believer is called to do . If not Another I will just do my best not to come into your comments anymore . I respect your Love of God . I respect your ability to see what perhaps I am lacking . I apologize once more .

Thanks .

Mick

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 6:33pm

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt.

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Will there be a "report" button for the post itself?

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 6:33pm

I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt.

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Will there be a "report" button for the post itself?

by: BlueDeacon

09-28-2009 @ 7:07pm

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Well, they don't. But I think those who post blog entries touch a few sore spots that Obama's opponents would prefer not to be addressed -- too many of them take disagreements as personal attacks. Doing so, however, defeats their own argument, and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

by: BlueDeacon

09-28-2009 @ 7:07pm

Does this apply to the writers on this blog, too? Seems to me that they are just as guilty of stereotyping conservatives and opposers of Obama's policies as much as any of us commenters are.

Well, they don't. But I think those who post blog entries touch a few sore spots that Obama's opponents would prefer not to be addressed -- too many of them take disagreements as personal attacks. Doing so, however, defeats their own argument, and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

by: irb

09-28-2009 @ 7:21pm

Your question is clearly rhetorical. May I ask why you frequent the site if you find it to be so consistently biased?

by: irb

09-28-2009 @ 7:21pm

Your question is clearly rhetorical. May I ask why you frequent the site if you find it to be so consistently biased?

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 7:24pm

Ryan--thanks for the updates to this blog. They have been a long time in coming, especially with regards to navigation through posts. The blog seems far more agile now--thanks.

Thanks also for the updated code of conduct.

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 7:24pm

Ryan--thanks for the updates to this blog. They have been a long time in coming, especially with regards to navigation through posts. The blog seems far more agile now--thanks.

Thanks also for the updated code of conduct.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 7:49pm

Thanks, Ryan. As I and others have said here recently, this blog has become a place where we no longer find it worth spending time. I hope that can change, and I'll be watching carefully.

I also want to repeat two things that I said last week. First, whether anybody else likes it or not, this is a blog run by and for progressive Christians. That is the default position here. Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog.

Second, again whether it appears that way to others or not, most progressive Christians are lonely and frustrated and have been for a long time. We have felt for years that our faith is routinely dissed and ridiculed by fellow Christians and by fellow liberals alike, and we yearn for kindred souls with whom we can share our distinctly minority perspective. That is what we came here hoping to find. Instead, we have found that the loudest and most persistent voices have been from the beginning those of right-wingers who, you guessed it, diss and ridicule our faith. It is only human of us to resent this.

Therefore, I want to make a civil, respectful request to anyone considering posting here. If you find the tone employed by the bloggers so repugnant that you cannot read their posts without being offended, please don't respond. There are plenty of other places where your point of view will be received more sympathetically. For many of us, however, the viewpoints that are expressed here are like a spring of water in a parched desert.

It's not that we don't want to talk to you; it's just that we crave a kind of respect that we're not used to getting. Since I started posting here a few years ago, I have had the distinct feeling that there are certain people who have made it their mission to deny us that respect through repeated and aggressive challenges to our very basic assumptions. If you're one of those people, and if it seems to you that we're not listening, please be assured that we are. We just don't agree. We're entitled to that.

Thank you for listening.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 7:49pm

Thanks, Ryan. As I and others have said here recently, this blog has become a place where we no longer find it worth spending time. I hope that can change, and I'll be watching carefully.

I also want to repeat two things that I said last week. First, whether anybody else likes it or not, this is a blog run by and for progressive Christians. That is the default position here. Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog.

Second, again whether it appears that way to others or not, most progressive Christians are lonely and frustrated and have been for a long time. We have felt for years that our faith is routinely dissed and ridiculed by fellow Christians and by fellow liberals alike, and we yearn for kindred souls with whom we can share our distinctly minority perspective. That is what we came here hoping to find. Instead, we have found that the loudest and most persistent voices have been from the beginning those of right-wingers who, you guessed it, diss and ridicule our faith. It is only human of us to resent this.

Therefore, I want to make a civil, respectful request to anyone considering posting here. If you find the tone employed by the bloggers so repugnant that you cannot read their posts without being offended, please don't respond. There are plenty of other places where your point of view will be received more sympathetically. For many of us, however, the viewpoints that are expressed here are like a spring of water in a parched desert.

It's not that we don't want to talk to you; it's just that we crave a kind of respect that we're not used to getting. Since I started posting here a few years ago, I have had the distinct feeling that there are certain people who have made it their mission to deny us that respect through repeated and aggressive challenges to our very basic assumptions. If you're one of those people, and if it seems to you that we're not listening, please be assured that we are. We just don't agree. We're entitled to that.

Thank you for listening.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:32pm

...and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

Yeah, we agree on that one.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:32pm

...and constantly bringing up abortion doesn't help matters either.

Yeah, we agree on that one.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hmmm... honestly, I agree in principle with the theology of Wallis et al, yet the pragmatic methods of social justice I find, well... not very just.

It's crucial to filter what can be understood as good commentary, good essay, and good blogging from the junk stuff, and this blog is no exception. I'm sure people think similarly to my ideas, either here or on my own blog.

by: xfree9

09-28-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hmmm... honestly, I agree in principle with the theology of Wallis et al, yet the pragmatic methods of social justice I find, well... not very just.

It's crucial to filter what can be understood as good commentary, good essay, and good blogging from the junk stuff, and this blog is no exception. I'm sure people think similarly to my ideas, either here or on my own blog.

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 8:50pm

Here-here!

by: squeaky

09-28-2009 @ 8:50pm

Here-here!

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 9:12pm

"Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog. "

Interesting perspective , one that I find perhaps should be written into the rules of conduct . If you disagree you need to be more polite then the majority view ? As a Christian would not the teaching be more to be equally just with the majority as with the minority ? Not that is always easy , in fact very hard , but i am sure if you thought about it , and recalled the teachings we both share you would find that to be more like the way I believe God wants us to behave .

If a person is rich , we are not suppose to show them partiality in fairness " Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

If a person is poor we are not also suppose to show them a greater portion within the balance of fairness, "
" Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

We are called to help the poor , and our Love of God causes us I believe to sometimes give the benefit of doubt to a poor person and try to help them regardless " but we are not to assume they are greater or smaller in God's eyes . I think that is sound Bibical understanding ?
to I in who have been the meanies. i
. Thats my view . Say a subject that normally would be understandable , thus giving to the poor . A person who usually may be more for limited government may measure governments success by how many people who don't need help because of effective government policies and allowing those to prosper , then another believer may see governments role as more expansive and disagrees with the more limited government and sees the solution in immediate government help . Why then do we take the attacks from political parties on each other and use them to denigrate believers ? Should not we be showing the world how to be ? Should be in trifle arguments in who is the nice guy ?

It would be pleasurable , in fact enriching in our spirits to see and realize that both understanding reflect scripture , only political means may be different . That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different . Many do not even hold to the scriptures being fully inspired or the Word of God . , often political rhetoric unites . , Assumptions using political talking point sof the negativity of the other .

Say an advocacy for more government immediate help , often sides with the minority of other Christians , because the side that is advocating that larger government also is sides with a secular view that holds Christ in contempt for the Things he taught us . Quote Jesus is the Way and the truth to a secular humanistic dominant view and they will explain to you how that is intolerant , while your thinking its JOY and a great Relief to Have Christ as our Savior , Because He is Real , and will Save Us . That does not fit with many
who share progressive opinions , shared here also , its unfortunate that those with that view and a political progressive view find more in common here .

Chit chat between each other , and actually group comments that all insult the one poster . That is often the case . Look at the posters and who links to their friends , its based on politics, not our love for Christ.

I have been told a few times that My god is different because of a political view . Strange , because my political views have changed often over the last 23 years , but My God has stayed the same .

I guess we can compare owies , But I am sorry for offending you .

Mick

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 9:12pm

"Therefore, the onus of being civilized falls on those who don't share that view, just as it would fall on me if I were to post on a conservative blog. "

Interesting perspective , one that I find perhaps should be written into the rules of conduct . If you disagree you need to be more polite then the majority view ? As a Christian would not the teaching be more to be equally just with the majority as with the minority ? Not that is always easy , in fact very hard , but i am sure if you thought about it , and recalled the teachings we both share you would find that to be more like the way I believe God wants us to behave .

If a person is rich , we are not suppose to show them partiality in fairness " Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

If a person is poor we are not also suppose to show them a greater portion within the balance of fairness, "
" Congress does to get power and votes ;0)"

We are called to help the poor , and our Love of God causes us I believe to sometimes give the benefit of doubt to a poor person and try to help them regardless " but we are not to assume they are greater or smaller in God's eyes . I think that is sound Bibical understanding ?
to I in who have been the meanies. i
. Thats my view . Say a subject that normally would be understandable , thus giving to the poor . A person who usually may be more for limited government may measure governments success by how many people who don't need help because of effective government policies and allowing those to prosper , then another believer may see governments role as more expansive and disagrees with the more limited government and sees the solution in immediate government help . Why then do we take the attacks from political parties on each other and use them to denigrate believers ? Should not we be showing the world how to be ? Should be in trifle arguments in who is the nice guy ?

It would be pleasurable , in fact enriching in our spirits to see and realize that both understanding reflect scripture , only political means may be different . That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different . Many do not even hold to the scriptures being fully inspired or the Word of God . , often political rhetoric unites . , Assumptions using political talking point sof the negativity of the other .

Say an advocacy for more government immediate help , often sides with the minority of other Christians , because the side that is advocating that larger government also is sides with a secular view that holds Christ in contempt for the Things he taught us . Quote Jesus is the Way and the truth to a secular humanistic dominant view and they will explain to you how that is intolerant , while your thinking its JOY and a great Relief to Have Christ as our Savior , Because He is Real , and will Save Us . That does not fit with many
who share progressive opinions , shared here also , its unfortunate that those with that view and a political progressive view find more in common here .

Chit chat between each other , and actually group comments that all insult the one poster . That is often the case . Look at the posters and who links to their friends , its based on politics, not our love for Christ.

I have been told a few times that My god is different because of a political view . Strange , because my political views have changed often over the last 23 years , but My God has stayed the same .

I guess we can compare owies , But I am sorry for offending you .

Mick

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 9:26pm

"That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Mick -

That, in a nutshell, is the problem. If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers. I am willing to be as charitable toward those who disagree with me as the Lord commands; I just ask them to return the favor. And yes, since progressive Christianity is the starting point here, the respect needs to begin with those who disagree. That's just how it works.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 9:26pm

"That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Mick -

That, in a nutshell, is the problem. If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers. I am willing to be as charitable toward those who disagree with me as the Lord commands; I just ask them to return the favor. And yes, since progressive Christianity is the starting point here, the respect needs to begin with those who disagree. That's just how it works.

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 10:49pm

"That, in a nutshell, is the problem"

Another That is not exactly was not my point , you just assumed I believed that ? So you just took a comment from perhaps a person you don't know , added a little mis understanding and made a very disrespectfull comment .

no big deal , but the fact i don't believe those with progressive views have a smaller Savior then I supports my Faith , my God knows no political barrier that limits His ability into a Heart of a Open soul .

I will try again . A little while back a person was describing the conservative understanding based in an Ann Rand . The comments became group think . I suggest to you the commenters chit chat brought comments like stanic , and others commented . Yes some of the commenters do not take the Bible seriously that others who make it clear they do . Your belief that the respect needs to begin with those who agree work in non thinking cultures , tribes , and robots . Come on , I can't believe you believe that if someone who may believe in your political view , then states all who disagree and have another philospy has been hi jacked by satanic and godless principlaities . If you want a dialouge with a person , chit chat that agrees with that , on an open board shows a lack of respect . You don't find it strange that only progressive political views supported that ?
Could it be that such comments and dialogue show dis respect for other views . Of course your belief it has merit is something as you say is how it works ? No thats how and why it does not work .

But if you do , that is how it works in your world .

Again sorry for past times I have injured your heart if I have . But your wrong here , as you were when you indicated I thought a progressive is less of a Christian then I . Hopefully there some here who Kinw that is IMPOSSIBLE . I am not saying this for the humble appearance so I can clobber you , but I need your prayers and the prayers of all Christians , I fail and I have flesh .
Don't we all ?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 10:49pm

"That, in a nutshell, is the problem"

Another That is not exactly was not my point , you just assumed I believed that ? So you just took a comment from perhaps a person you don't know , added a little mis understanding and made a very disrespectfull comment .

no big deal , but the fact i don't believe those with progressive views have a smaller Savior then I supports my Faith , my God knows no political barrier that limits His ability into a Heart of a Open soul .

I will try again . A little while back a person was describing the conservative understanding based in an Ann Rand . The comments became group think . I suggest to you the commenters chit chat brought comments like stanic , and others commented . Yes some of the commenters do not take the Bible seriously that others who make it clear they do . Your belief that the respect needs to begin with those who agree work in non thinking cultures , tribes , and robots . Come on , I can't believe you believe that if someone who may believe in your political view , then states all who disagree and have another philospy has been hi jacked by satanic and godless principlaities . If you want a dialouge with a person , chit chat that agrees with that , on an open board shows a lack of respect . You don't find it strange that only progressive political views supported that ?
Could it be that such comments and dialogue show dis respect for other views . Of course your belief it has merit is something as you say is how it works ? No thats how and why it does not work .

But if you do , that is how it works in your world .

Again sorry for past times I have injured your heart if I have . But your wrong here , as you were when you indicated I thought a progressive is less of a Christian then I . Hopefully there some here who Kinw that is IMPOSSIBLE . I am not saying this for the humble appearance so I can clobber you , but I need your prayers and the prayers of all Christians , I fail and I have flesh .
Don't we all ?

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:07pm

Oh, for heaven's sake, Mick! There was nothing disrespectful about my comment. I was replying to exactly what you said.

Can we all take a deep breath, please?

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:07pm

Oh, for heaven's sake, Mick! There was nothing disrespectful about my comment. I was replying to exactly what you said.

Can we all take a deep breath, please?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:11pm

xfree I enjoy your insights and views . Your Faith also shines through , which is not easy in the toxicity that sometimes blogging comes with .

Not a liberaterian , a little one when I take the where are you politically on line test, but I switch on issues , pro life is a big one with me that is a constant . Find myself agreeing with the left as I get older , " thought that was what happened when you were young ;o)"

Great web you have , mind if I join in there . Also the conversations appear to be more respectful then here ..

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:11pm

xfree I enjoy your insights and views . Your Faith also shines through , which is not easy in the toxicity that sometimes blogging comes with .

Not a liberaterian , a little one when I take the where are you politically on line test, but I switch on issues , pro life is a big one with me that is a constant . Find myself agreeing with the left as I get older , " thought that was what happened when you were young ;o)"

Great web you have , mind if I join in there . Also the conversations appear to be more respectful then here ..

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:17pm

"If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers."

Thats not disrespectfull ? Your kidding ? You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government ?

So its OK because you misunderstood ?

Good grief . Thanks giving must be a riot at your house.

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:17pm

"If you believe that those who don't agree with you don't take the Bible as seriously as you do, you're not going to be able to respond to them with respect as to fellow believers."

Thats not disrespectfull ? Your kidding ? You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government ?

So its OK because you misunderstood ?

Good grief . Thanks giving must be a riot at your house.

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:37pm

"You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government?"

No, you apparently think so; at least that's what your comment clearly said, even if you insist that's not what you meant. I have never suggested anything of the sort, and I'm certainly not going to start now. Now will you please stop hurling accusations at me?

by: Anothernonymous

09-28-2009 @ 11:37pm

"You don't think its Un Christian to think a person is less of a Christian because he thinks a certain way on bigger or smaller government?"

No, you apparently think so; at least that's what your comment clearly said, even if you insist that's not what you meant. I have never suggested anything of the sort, and I'm certainly not going to start now. Now will you please stop hurling accusations at me?

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:47pm

That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Clarification . If I agree with a person which happens all the time , say on marriage . My understanding of the issue is based on my understanding of what is best for everyone . What God Intended and social science teaches on what is best for children to grow up in , My biased view makes a decsion to support marriage . If You or another Christian disagreed with based on what you thought , say you considered that something that should not be put into law and in fact the result on the stablity of our culture would not be effected , separation of church and state , whatever we could have a good discussion .

But If I took my side , and joined in with a person who has a belief homosexuals need to be treated disresepctfully , and together assaulted your opinion based on your lack of whatever , Is exactly what I was talking to . I don't have a problem with disagreements , you seem to , I have a problem with those of the same political viewpoints making that more important then the two believers working it out and growing .

They should make this a private blog . Your idea would work then .

I

by: 1Grace

09-28-2009 @ 11:47pm

That does not happen from my view to the progressive bloggers here , in fact they are not joined by Bibical understanding , because their beliefs are quite far different."

Clarification . If I agree with a person which happens all the time , say on marriage . My understanding of the issue is based on my understanding of what is best for everyone . What God Intended and social science teaches on what is best for children to grow up in , My biased view makes a decsion to support marriage . If You or another Christian disagreed with based on what you thought , say you considered that something that should not be put into law and in fact the result on the stablity of our culture would not be effected , separation of church and state , whatever we could have a good discussion .

But If I took my side , and joined in with a person who has a belief homosexuals need to be treated disresepctfully , and together assaulted your opinion based on your lack of whatever , Is exactly what I was talking to . I don't have a problem with disagreements , you seem to , I have a problem with those of the same political viewpoints making that more important then the two believers working it out and growing .

They should make this a private blog . Your idea would work then .

I

by: Anothernonymous

09-29-2009 @ 12:03am

Mick, I am trying very hard to hear what you're saying here, but I don't recognize myself in the person you appear to be arguing with. Hence I have nothing more to say.

by: Anothernonymous

09-29-2009 @ 12:03am

Mick, I am trying very hard to hear what you're saying here, but I don't recognize myself in the person you appear to be arguing with. Hence I have nothing more to say.

by: BlueDeacon

09-29-2009 @ 12:50am

That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -- although they represent my personal positions -- are the only issues worth addressing. Besides, we already have a bunch of Christian blogs that actually do that, partly to raise money and maintaining a sense of cultural authority; the problem, however, is that "authority" is not the Christian's primary concern.

by: BlueDeacon

09-29-2009 @ 12:50am

That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -- although they represent my personal positions -- are the only issues worth addressing. Besides, we already have a bunch of Christian blogs that actually do that, partly to raise money and maintaining a sense of cultural authority; the problem, however, is that "authority" is not the Christian's primary concern.

by: canucklehead

09-29-2009 @ 2:50am

David Gushee had a relevant op-ed in USA Today today.

by: canucklehead

09-29-2009 @ 2:50am

David Gushee had a relevant op-ed in USA Today today.

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 3:12am

"That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -"

Your comment makes no sense to the conversation . My first example was two Chistians speaking about helping the poor , he did not understand it he says . The second attempt was about marriage , I was just making examples Rick of onversations that Christians could disagree on , but yet still have a Love and support of each other as Brothers In Christ .
But when the conversations break down , and secularist use it as divide the Body of Christ for political gain it is detrimental to the church .

my point which I believe you disagree with from previous posts , was that because this is a Progressive site I find no distingusishing differences between any of us and the Love of Christ we receive or are capable of giving . We should seek support and guidance from each other. This site does not do this even though it says its Evangelical , it pits secualrists and other belief systems together while using all forces to attack another . Christians get in the middle and at opposing sides .

.
In either case , the enemy likes it . Sorry I have nothing more to say .

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 3:12am

"That's kind of beside the point. Those of us who are "progressive" don't believe that fighting legal abortion and maintaining the sanctity of marriage -"

Your comment makes no sense to the conversation . My first example was two Chistians speaking about helping the poor , he did not understand it he says . The second attempt was about marriage , I was just making examples Rick of onversations that Christians could disagree on , but yet still have a Love and support of each other as Brothers In Christ .
But when the conversations break down , and secularist use it as divide the Body of Christ for political gain it is detrimental to the church .

my point which I believe you disagree with from previous posts , was that because this is a Progressive site I find no distingusishing differences between any of us and the Love of Christ we receive or are capable of giving . We should seek support and guidance from each other. This site does not do this even though it says its Evangelical , it pits secualrists and other belief systems together while using all forces to attack another . Christians get in the middle and at opposing sides .

.
In either case , the enemy likes it . Sorry I have nothing more to say .

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:03am

Thanks. I don't get tons of traffic, but yeah, join the conversation! It's Disqus-enabled, so it is ready to go for comments.

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:03am

Thanks. I don't get tons of traffic, but yeah, join the conversation! It's Disqus-enabled, so it is ready to go for comments.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-29-2009 @ 12:31pm

Thanks for comments.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-29-2009 @ 12:31pm

Thanks for comments.

by: calledme

09-29-2009 @ 3:28pm

Oh my Lord -- this stream has become the perfect example of all it can be when it's at its worst. An issue about respecting the intent of the Christian progressive posts, concern about folks who comment here to work out their frustrations on a group of people whose perspectives have to be nailed down as one political perspective or another...I want to grow as a Christian and as one who lives the life Christ empowers us to live.

I don't mind creative disagreement -- but I hate it when faith flies out the door with the first comments and never reappears because the whole focus has turned to conservative vs. liberal name-calling.

I hate it that a blog about being responsible, civil and faithful turns into a virulent stream of accusations about who's less civil than whom.

Why can't we talk about Jesus and His ministry and the work of the Holy Spirit in a world dying for lack of love and ministry from those who are called to provide those things?

What we demonstrate most is that our thinking never moves beyond the worst common denominator among us -- the need to justify ourselves at someone else's expense.

by: calledme

09-29-2009 @ 3:28pm

Oh my Lord -- this stream has become the perfect example of all it can be when it's at its worst. An issue about respecting the intent of the Christian progressive posts, concern about folks who comment here to work out their frustrations on a group of people whose perspectives have to be nailed down as one political perspective or another...I want to grow as a Christian and as one who lives the life Christ empowers us to live.

I don't mind creative disagreement -- but I hate it when faith flies out the door with the first comments and never reappears because the whole focus has turned to conservative vs. liberal name-calling.

I hate it that a blog about being responsible, civil and faithful turns into a virulent stream of accusations about who's less civil than whom.

Why can't we talk about Jesus and His ministry and the work of the Holy Spirit in a world dying for lack of love and ministry from those who are called to provide those things?

What we demonstrate most is that our thinking never moves beyond the worst common denominator among us -- the need to justify ourselves at someone else's expense.

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 3:52pm

"Instead, we have found that the loudest and most persistent voices have been from the beginning those of right-wingers who, you guessed it, diss and ridicule our faith. It is only human of us to resent this."

Yes I don't think he realized he started the finger pointing with his comments . Another did mean to start a war of us against them . I believe he honestly feels one side is atatcked more then another . I think it always feels that way . When i was a republican I noticed the anti republican comments more then what I see now .

I notice the stereotyping of the left more and more . Thats why I justify myself myself only through Christ , and when i fall from that I realize its my human nature . I am sure if we were having coffee or something Another would be a man I could have a great conversation with and pray with and have much more in common . Thats my Hope anyway .

I notice even still myself I will allow a comment go unchallenged that will stereotype another believer if he happens to be on the far left who has made another comment to me that i felt was inappropriate . Shame on me also.

by: 1Grace

09-29-2009 @ 3:52pm

"Instead, we have found that the loudest and most persistent voices have been from the beginning those of right-wingers who, you guessed it, diss and ridicule our faith. It is only human of us to resent this."

Yes I don't think he realized he started the finger pointing with his comments . Another did mean to start a war of us against them . I believe he honestly feels one side is atatcked more then another . I think it always feels that way . When i was a republican I noticed the anti republican comments more then what I see now .

I notice the stereotyping of the left more and more . Thats why I justify myself myself only through Christ , and when i fall from that I realize its my human nature . I am sure if we were having coffee or something Another would be a man I could have a great conversation with and pray with and have much more in common . Thats my Hope anyway .

I notice even still myself I will allow a comment go unchallenged that will stereotype another believer if he happens to be on the far left who has made another comment to me that i felt was inappropriate . Shame on me also.

by: Anothernonymous

09-29-2009 @ 5:44pm

If you want to call it finger pointing, then yes, I suppose that's what I was doing. Nevertheless, I stand by what I said, and I think the course this discussion has taken is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about.

This is not a matter of stereotyping and it's not a matter of judging. I was simply pointing out what kind of blog this is and asking for recognition of that fact from people who post here. "A war of us against them?" I hate to tell you this, Mick, but that war started a long time ago, and it's in full combat mode throughout our culture. What I was trying to do was stop it, at least in this one space and for this one discussion. Would you please help out a bit? Thanks.

by: Anothernonymous

09-29-2009 @ 5:44pm

If you want to call it finger pointing, then yes, I suppose that's what I was doing. Nevertheless, I stand by what I said, and I think the course this discussion has taken is a perfect illustration of what I was talking about.

This is not a matter of stereotyping and it's not a matter of judging. I was simply pointing out what kind of blog this is and asking for recognition of that fact from people who post here. "A war of us against them?" I hate to tell you this, Mick, but that war started a long time ago, and it's in full combat mode throughout our culture. What I was trying to do was stop it, at least in this one space and for this one discussion. Would you please help out a bit? Thanks.