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Health Care, Immigrants, and the Character of our Country

With an issue like health, deeply personal, but of great public concern, the faith community has a unique and important role to play -- to define and raise the moral issues beneath the policy debate. One major moral issue that has surfaced is how we treat the immigrant in our society as we discuss and debate health-care reform.

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Lawmakers have gone above and beyond to ensure that no undocumented immigrant would be covered under the proposed health-care plan, and the White House insists that people unlawfully present in the U.S. will be barred from using the proposed "exchange."

When the now-infamous representative from South Carolina shouted "You lie!" at President Obama, political fact-checkers and the media struck back with force. They have been clear to say that President Obama wasn't lying or misrepresenting the facts about undocumented immigrants in health-care reform.

These adamant denials from the fact-checkers and the White House, that the proposed bill will definitely not cover the undocumented, might help its political feasibility, but they don't say much for its moral priorities.

In the faith community, we have a different ethic than political feasibility. For many years, our practice and policy has been that health care for all should mean health care for all. Yes, we believe that reform should also include immigrants, and that all within our shores at least have access to a basic safety net of services. We believe that would be a sign of strength in health-care reform, not weakness, if it included the immigrants among us. Jewish and Christian scriptures alike are more than clear about the moral mandate to take care of "the alien" and "the stranger" in your midst, to treat them as if they were your own. Why? Because at some time we all have been strangers or aliens in a new place. When politicians brag about the fact that immigrants are not included in health-care reform, it is a sign that political calculation has won out over moral consideration.

We are well aware that immigration is a tricky issue and an emotionally volatile topic, and best dealt with directly. Attempts to employ the volatile politics of the immigration issue to derail meaningful progress on health-care reform are unacceptable. But when outbursts from members of Congress incite a national media frenzy about what kinds of people should not benefit from meaningful health-care reform, we have a moral obligation to speak out.

Three dozen faith groups, including Sojourners, sent a letter to the White House and Congress last week. In the letter, we stated:

It is our strongly-held view that the provision of health care is a shared responsibility grounded in the sacred act of creation and our common humanity. Universal teachings within the scriptural texts of our diverse faith communities call us to welcome strangers and compassionately care for their basic human needs -- including health care.

This means, first, that legal immigrants should be eligible for subsidies that assist them in purchasing health insurance. Second, we should eliminate the five-year bar on legal immigrants being eligible for Medicaid. Third, our concern for life and children must mean the inclusion of pregnant women and children in any health-care plan, regardless of their legal status.

The president has said that our response to health care in this nation is about the character of our country. We believe that is true. Our response to the issue of immigration is also about our character as a country. Do we want to be the sort of country who prides itself in its ability to prove that no immigrant, with or without documentation, is able to secure health coverage on a public exchange or receive financial assistance to obtain coverage when times are tough? After we accomplish that, will we move on to ensure that immigrant children are denied health care at clinics? Hospitals? Emergency rooms? By marginalizing immigrants in health-care reform legislation, we create a shadow health-care system to accompany the shadow society in which many immigrants are already forced to live and operate.

As Christians we are instructed to be generous, caring, and welcoming. Why would we support public policy designed to prohibit a needy person from accessing life-giving health care because of his or her immigrant status? And for us, health-care reform challenges our commitments as Christians. Let's focus on good public policies, not fear-driven or divisive political games, which reflect our best moral values and the better nature of our country by including all immigrants in heath-care reform.

Jim Wallis is Editor-in-Chief of Sojourners and the author of The Great Awakening.

Allison Johnson, campaign coordinator of Christians for Comprehensive Immigration Reform, also contributed to this article. To learn more about immigration reform, visit www.faithandimmigration.org.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

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by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 12:46pm

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 2:11pm

The problem when President Obama made his speech was that the bills in question did not allow any verification of citizenship, the question could not be ask. This was changed on the bill after the speech was made in the middle of the night without fanfare.

And here is another link to a fact check.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjJmNjY4Mj...

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 10:46am

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:19pm

The problem with requiring some sort of "verification of citizenship" is well, how DOES one do so in an efficient, quick way? And if such a quick verification cannot be done, then we'd have something that gets bogged down in red tape, all as precious time and money tick away. Finally, how much do you want to bet that unless verification were mandated for 100% of people, that it quickly ends up being used for racial profiling?

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:24pm

I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again. IMHO it's not at all clear that the biblical command to care for one's neighbors and strangers means that illegal immigrants have to be eligible to receive various entitlements. Other than receiving basic, humane treatment due everyone, they frankly have no right to stay. Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize, but I don't see such things as biblically mandated.

by: kansasmennonite

10-01-2009 @ 10:01am

Yes, the truth has come out! The republicans and democrats are avoiding the illegal immigrant situation at all costs. Just shows where their heart is (getting reelected).

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 2:11pm

The problem when President Obama made his speech was that the bills in question did not allow any verification of citizenship, the question could not be ask. This was changed on the bill after the speech was made in the middle of the night without fanfare.

And here is another link to a fact check.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjJmNjY4Mj...

by: LadyJess78

09-29-2009 @ 4:33pm

But who defines "basic humane treatment?" I would say that tending to wounds and illness is basic humane treatment. I would say that leaving someone with a broken bone or with festering cancer untreated is inhumane. Some others would not say that. Is allowing a child to die of a treatable illness without treatment a violation of "basic and humane" treatment. I believe there could be eons of debate on that issue, but I believe that it is.

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:19pm

The problem with requiring some sort of "verification of citizenship" is well, how DOES one do so in an efficient, quick way? And if such a quick verification cannot be done, then we'd have something that gets bogged down in red tape, all as precious time and money tick away. Finally, how much do you want to bet that unless verification were mandated for 100% of people, that it quickly ends up being used for racial profiling?

by: WaveTossed

09-29-2009 @ 6:00pm

"Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize,"

How true. And how sad that people say "perhaps" we should "consider" doing these things. Loosening up the ridiculous logjam at INS would help alot with the problem of "illegals." But there is no political will to do that.

Too often, using the issue of "illegals" contains code words for "let's keep those Mexicans out." Especially when unfounded stereotypes get thrown around such as "they only want to come into our country to get welfare, Medicaid, etc." Most immigrants want to come into our country to work.

Wilson was being racist in his "liar" remark. But not against Obama or African-Americans. He was displaying his racism and xenophobia against Mexicans.

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:24pm

I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again. IMHO it's not at all clear that the biblical command to care for one's neighbors and strangers means that illegal immigrants have to be eligible to receive various entitlements. Other than receiving basic, humane treatment due everyone, they frankly have no right to stay. Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize, but I don't see such things as biblically mandated.

by: kansasmennonite

10-01-2009 @ 10:01am

Yes, the truth has come out! The republicans and democrats are avoiding the illegal immigrant situation at all costs. Just shows where their heart is (getting reelected).

by: nuclearferret

09-29-2009 @ 8:24pm

If citizens are forced to buy insurance or pay severe fines, the injustice is that illegal immigrants are not held to the same status. As defenders of the various health plans point out when discussing Rep. Wilson's remarks, all persons including illegal immigrants receive health care in this country regardless of ability to pay already.

by: LadyJess78

09-29-2009 @ 4:33pm

But who defines "basic humane treatment?" I would say that tending to wounds and illness is basic humane treatment. I would say that leaving someone with a broken bone or with festering cancer untreated is inhumane. Some others would not say that. Is allowing a child to die of a treatable illness without treatment a violation of "basic and humane" treatment. I believe there could be eons of debate on that issue, but I believe that it is.

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 9:15pm

After the Wilson debacle we were discussing the issue with my family. My son who just intered college made a comment that illigal immigrants are human too? Yes, thankyou son. BTW He got the citizenship award last spring and part of that award is for respecting people and upholding the constitution. (can a Mennonite do that?). It's a shame what goes on in people's minds. Who hires the illegals? Do they pay taxes here? Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs. Yes, son they are human too!!!

by: WaveTossed

09-29-2009 @ 6:00pm

"Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize,"

How true. And how sad that people say "perhaps" we should "consider" doing these things. Loosening up the ridiculous logjam at INS would help alot with the problem of "illegals." But there is no political will to do that.

Too often, using the issue of "illegals" contains code words for "let's keep those Mexicans out." Especially when unfounded stereotypes get thrown around such as "they only want to come into our country to get welfare, Medicaid, etc." Most immigrants want to come into our country to work.

Wilson was being racist in his "liar" remark. But not against Obama or African-Americans. He was displaying his racism and xenophobia against Mexicans.

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:23pm

I'm not for the health care plans that Obama is advocating, but if the premise on this entire style of reform is "human rights," then why are politicians, even Obama, declaring unequivocally that persons here unlawfully are not going to be covered? Aren't non-US citizens human beings, too?

The premise that health care is a human right should not extend only to American citizens, or our neighbors to the north and south. It should, by definition, include every human being. So if that's the premise, then travelers from abroad should enjoy their human rights in the United States.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:30pm

When I got my drivers license in TN I had to prove I was a US citizen. I needed my birth certificate for this. My GA liscense would not do. That was in 2004.

by: BuckeyeDon

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

And it's not at all clear to me that God is so concerned with "borders" as we are. I'm not at all convinced that God even recognizes the status of "illegal" immigrant as we understand it. A human being is a human being in God's eyes, after all. And considering that the US/Mexico border is, by and large, a rather arbitrary line drawn across the desert and not a cultural divide, and given that most of the US southwest was once part of Mexico (and that we wrested away from them in another of our trumped-up wars), I'm just not so sure God's all that worried about anyone's "status." I know that Jesus wouldn't ask to see someone's green card before ministering to him/her.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

"Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs."

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:37pm

How can one have a right to another life and property? Are you saying that a Doctor of Medicine is a slave to the rest of us?

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 11:55pm

Do you honesty think they give the illegals an option on health insurance?

I'm not necessarily for employer supplied health insurance (I'd like to see insurance entirely separate from employment). I do think that if one hires illlegals knowingly they should be held responsible and that should cover their medical needs. (of course that will never happen). It's a tongue in cheek thing. The illegals should be treated like any employee.

If there is a need for illegals here (to get the work done) than somebody should cover their health insurance. In other words I have no problem covering them if the govt. plan mandates everyone should get coverage. If Wilson's claim was right (illegals would get coverage) it doesn't bother me. Like I said in an earlier post-illegals are human also.

I do agree with your assertion that the employer will just pay the employee less money if some of it has to go for insurance. I had a big argument with my brother-in-law about this same thing when he insisted that the employer paid for half of fica (is that correct?). I insisted that he just paid his employee that much less but my inlaw couldn't see that! No, it comes out of the employer! (he's never been employed in his adult life so sees things very one sided).

If this doesn't make sense don't attack too hard. I do agree the employee is "always" paying.

by: kansasmennonite

09-30-2009 @ 12:03am

I'm confused here. Are you saying that wilson's remarks are mute? It doesn't matter?

Anyway, illegals can get health care at an emergency room if they're willing to take that risk but it's probably for a procedure that went on too long already and could of been handled cheaper-better by earlier diag. etc. I would hardly call that health care though.

On the flip side I did hear that the people with insurance pay about $1k per year to cover the uninsured at emergency rooms. Don't know whether this is true or not. I wonder what the average pay of emergency room works are? Is this where the extremely high costs come from? It seems to me that if emergency rooms were used for less emergency type things that costs wold go down instead. I have a feeling that the drs are making too much money in that capacity.

by: nuclearferret

09-29-2009 @ 8:24pm

If citizens are forced to buy insurance or pay severe fines, the injustice is that illegal immigrants are not held to the same status. As defenders of the various health plans point out when discussing Rep. Wilson's remarks, all persons including illegal immigrants receive health care in this country regardless of ability to pay already.

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 9:15pm

After the Wilson debacle we were discussing the issue with my family. My son who just intered college made a comment that illigal immigrants are human too? Yes, thankyou son. BTW He got the citizenship award last spring and part of that award is for respecting people and upholding the constitution. (can a Mennonite do that?). It's a shame what goes on in people's minds. Who hires the illegals? Do they pay taxes here? Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs. Yes, son they are human too!!!

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:23pm

I'm not for the health care plans that Obama is advocating, but if the premise on this entire style of reform is "human rights," then why are politicians, even Obama, declaring unequivocally that persons here unlawfully are not going to be covered? Aren't non-US citizens human beings, too?

The premise that health care is a human right should not extend only to American citizens, or our neighbors to the north and south. It should, by definition, include every human being. So if that's the premise, then travelers from abroad should enjoy their human rights in the United States.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:30pm

When I got my drivers license in TN I had to prove I was a US citizen. I needed my birth certificate for this. My GA liscense would not do. That was in 2004.

by: BuckeyeDon

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

And it's not at all clear to me that God is so concerned with "borders" as we are. I'm not at all convinced that God even recognizes the status of "illegal" immigrant as we understand it. A human being is a human being in God's eyes, after all. And considering that the US/Mexico border is, by and large, a rather arbitrary line drawn across the desert and not a cultural divide, and given that most of the US southwest was once part of Mexico (and that we wrested away from them in another of our trumped-up wars), I'm just not so sure God's all that worried about anyone's "status." I know that Jesus wouldn't ask to see someone's green card before ministering to him/her.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

"Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs."

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:37pm

How can one have a right to another life and property? Are you saying that a Doctor of Medicine is a slave to the rest of us?

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 11:55pm

Do you honesty think they give the illegals an option on health insurance?

I'm not necessarily for employer supplied health insurance (I'd like to see insurance entirely separate from employment). I do think that if one hires illlegals knowingly they should be held responsible and that should cover their medical needs. (of course that will never happen). It's a tongue in cheek thing. The illegals should be treated like any employee.

If there is a need for illegals here (to get the work done) than somebody should cover their health insurance. In other words I have no problem covering them if the govt. plan mandates everyone should get coverage. If Wilson's claim was right (illegals would get coverage) it doesn't bother me. Like I said in an earlier post-illegals are human also.

I do agree with your assertion that the employer will just pay the employee less money if some of it has to go for insurance. I had a big argument with my brother-in-law about this same thing when he insisted that the employer paid for half of fica (is that correct?). I insisted that he just paid his employee that much less but my inlaw couldn't see that! No, it comes out of the employer! (he's never been employed in his adult life so sees things very one sided).

If this doesn't make sense don't attack too hard. I do agree the employee is "always" paying.

by: kansasmennonite

09-30-2009 @ 12:03am

I'm confused here. Are you saying that wilson's remarks are mute? It doesn't matter?

Anyway, illegals can get health care at an emergency room if they're willing to take that risk but it's probably for a procedure that went on too long already and could of been handled cheaper-better by earlier diag. etc. I would hardly call that health care though.

On the flip side I did hear that the people with insurance pay about $1k per year to cover the uninsured at emergency rooms. Don't know whether this is true or not. I wonder what the average pay of emergency room works are? Is this where the extremely high costs come from? It seems to me that if emergency rooms were used for less emergency type things that costs wold go down instead. I have a feeling that the drs are making too much money in that capacity.

by: Ashleigh101

10-03-2009 @ 8:00pm

I agree. As it is we have many immigrants who come here so that they can get welfare. I don't believe our doors should be shut to immigrants, but certainly we've got some huge problems with our government's ability to financially pay for all the world's poor.

by: bmwalker

09-30-2009 @ 1:58pm

Thanks for a compelling article that got me thinking critically about this issue! In principle, I agree that we should be taking care of the stranger, particularly basic needs. When the rubber hits the road though, if we offered health care to all, including immigrants, then America would suddenly become a much more appealing place to live. I suspect we would be flooded with 2 or 3x the immigrants we have now...and that's great, except that I suspect such a drastic influx would destabilize both our country AND the countries (namely Mexico) that immigrants would be leaving. I could be off on that, but would love the hear someone else's thoughts on it! I like the idea of HC for all, but would it actually work???

Bret

by: xfree9

09-30-2009 @ 2:10pm

Oh, I most certainly believe they do not! I was repeating the argument and premise to show that logically, if that is true, from a "human rights" perspective, then every human being should be included, otherwise it is not "universal," but only "American."

But alas, welcome to 1984

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 2:56pm

I appreciate the stance but am not clear at all on the specific policy stance the letter to the WhiteHouse advocates. Two of the three points relate to legal immigrants and the third one is not clear. In the end it is not clear to me if the letter argues for access to healthcare by illegal immigrants, or guestworkers, or whom.

Lack of clarity too often means 'obfuscation.' Please clarify.

I presume you do not argue that anyone who can make it to our shores can immediately check into the hospital and have whatever procedures they want done provided free of charge. But you don't say that. So, hard to tell.

I absolutely believe this debate ought be about our health systems and not about immigration and abortion. Republicans and conservatives had those issues on the table when they were in full charge of the government--and dealt with them as they dealt with them.

It is not that the provision of services to illegal immigrants is not critical. It is that the issue is non-governance of immigration. And that doesn't get solved by surrogate legislation. By the time health reform measures kick-in there will be several more Congresses with more than ample opportunity to reform immigration. With Republicans so dedicated now to addressing immigration issues and Democrats equally so--it certainly will happen. :))

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 12:46pm

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: wjschroeder

09-30-2009 @ 3:55pm

could someone PLEASE. mybe you JIM WALLACE tell me what bill obama is talking about. BECASUE HE DOESNT HAVE ONE YET. there is NOOOO bill out there that we can look at and say whether w hat he says is true or not. There is nooo bill BY ITSELF that he has stated is the bill he wants passed to base anything on. THIS IS CALLED DECEPTION. obama has lied about just about everything he has ever spoken on. yes abortion will be covered. ALl admendments introduced to make sure it isnt, was shot down in commitee along with all the other issues along with "undocumented" immigrants. BILL WALLACE cold not DISCERN his way out of a wet paper bag. Are not immigrants SUPPOSED to follow RULES. do they not get help now. Are we to just IGNORE the fact that there are CONSEGUENCES that come along with a person choices in life. DO these immigrants have such things were they came from, did they not survive with out it. SO for your last statement why should we not support giving them free stuff, maybe for the same reason I could not go into my doctor and at gun point tell him to give me care for free. ITS AGAINST THE LAW. YOU CONSEGUENCES. But I geuss the bible speaks something about their being no conseguences for your actions if your a minority or foreigner or REALLY REALLY need something.

by: Ashleigh101

10-03-2009 @ 8:00pm

I agree. As it is we have many immigrants who come here so that they can get welfare. I don't believe our doors should be shut to immigrants, but certainly we've got some huge problems with our government's ability to financially pay for all the world's poor.

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 10:46am

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: bmwalker

09-30-2009 @ 1:58pm

Thanks for a compelling article that got me thinking critically about this issue! In principle, I agree that we should be taking care of the stranger, particularly basic needs. When the rubber hits the road though, if we offered health care to all, including immigrants, then America would suddenly become a much more appealing place to live. I suspect we would be flooded with 2 or 3x the immigrants we have now...and that's great, except that I suspect such a drastic influx would destabilize both our country AND the countries (namely Mexico) that immigrants would be leaving. I could be off on that, but would love the hear someone else's thoughts on it! I like the idea of HC for all, but would it actually work???

Bret

by: xfree9

09-30-2009 @ 2:10pm

Oh, I most certainly believe they do not! I was repeating the argument and premise to show that logically, if that is true, from a "human rights" perspective, then every human being should be included, otherwise it is not "universal," but only "American."

But alas, welcome to 1984

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 2:56pm

I appreciate the stance but am not clear at all on the specific policy stance the letter to the WhiteHouse advocates. Two of the three points relate to legal immigrants and the third one is not clear. In the end it is not clear to me if the letter argues for access to healthcare by illegal immigrants, or guestworkers, or whom.

Lack of clarity too often means 'obfuscation.' Please clarify.

I presume you do not argue that anyone who can make it to our shores can immediately check into the hospital and have whatever procedures they want done provided free of charge. But you don't say that. So, hard to tell.

I absolutely believe this debate ought be about our health systems and not about immigration and abortion. Republicans and conservatives had those issues on the table when they were in full charge of the government--and dealt with them as they dealt with them.

It is not that the provision of services to illegal immigrants is not critical. It is that the issue is non-governance of immigration. And that doesn't get solved by surrogate legislation. By the time health reform measures kick-in there will be several more Congresses with more than ample opportunity to reform immigration. With Republicans so dedicated now to addressing immigration issues and Democrats equally so--it certainly will happen. :))

by: WaveTossed

09-30-2009 @ 5:37pm

I am a libertarian-leaning person who supports the classical libertarian views on immigration. To see some of these views, visit www.catoinstitute.org at:

http://www.cato.org/search_results.html?cx=0066...

Human beings have the right to travel to locations where work is available. The artificial barriers set up by the U.S. INS to keep law-abiding people whose goal is work from entering the U.S. in order to pursue these goals is a violation of their natural rights. A reasonable policy of immigration reform (with reasonable screening to keep terrorists and criminals out) would help to bring these natural human rights to people.

I happen to part with many libertarians in that I also see access to health care as a right-to-life issue. So I would support immigration reform that would help people come to this country to work legally if that is their choice. And as for health care reform: these people who come here to work should be included in any health care reform legislation.

by: wjschroeder

09-30-2009 @ 3:55pm

could someone PLEASE. mybe you JIM WALLACE tell me what bill obama is talking about. BECASUE HE DOESNT HAVE ONE YET. there is NOOOO bill out there that we can look at and say whether w hat he says is true or not. There is nooo bill BY ITSELF that he has stated is the bill he wants passed to base anything on. THIS IS CALLED DECEPTION. obama has lied about just about everything he has ever spoken on. yes abortion will be covered. ALl admendments introduced to make sure it isnt, was shot down in commitee along with all the other issues along with "undocumented" immigrants. BILL WALLACE cold not DISCERN his way out of a wet paper bag. Are not immigrants SUPPOSED to follow RULES. do they not get help now. Are we to just IGNORE the fact that there are CONSEGUENCES that come along with a person choices in life. DO these immigrants have such things were they came from, did they not survive with out it. SO for your last statement why should we not support giving them free stuff, maybe for the same reason I could not go into my doctor and at gun point tell him to give me care for free. ITS AGAINST THE LAW. YOU CONSEGUENCES. But I geuss the bible speaks something about their being no conseguences for your actions if your a minority or foreigner or REALLY REALLY need something.

by: SFR

09-30-2009 @ 10:03pm

What most people don't seem to get is that illegal immigrants usually PAY their taxes when they are taken out of their paychecks. But they don't file a tax return, so they don't get any money back, as anyone else making minimum wage would do. Besides, they get no benefit from the social security they pay. So why not allow them to buy public insurance like anyone else, and save us from having to pay for their treatment in the emergency room, too? My senator knows this, but will not speak out about it because he's afraid to lose the votes of his Republican base.

by: WaveTossed

09-30-2009 @ 5:37pm

I am a libertarian-leaning person who supports the classical libertarian views on immigration. To see some of these views, visit www.catoinstitute.org at:

http://www.cato.org/search_results.html?cx=0066...

Human beings have the right to travel to locations where work is available. The artificial barriers set up by the U.S. INS to keep law-abiding people whose goal is work from entering the U.S. in order to pursue these goals is a violation of their natural rights. A reasonable policy of immigration reform (with reasonable screening to keep terrorists and criminals out) would help to bring these natural human rights to people.

I happen to part with many libertarians in that I also see access to health care as a right-to-life issue. So I would support immigration reform that would help people come to this country to work legally if that is their choice. And as for health care reform: these people who come here to work should be included in any health care reform legislation.

by: SFR

09-30-2009 @ 10:03pm

What most people don't seem to get is that illegal immigrants usually PAY their taxes when they are taken out of their paychecks. But they don't file a tax return, so they don't get any money back, as anyone else making minimum wage would do. Besides, they get no benefit from the social security they pay. So why not allow them to buy public insurance like anyone else, and save us from having to pay for their treatment in the emergency room, too? My senator knows this, but will not speak out about it because he's afraid to lose the votes of his Republican base.

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by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 2:11pm

The problem when President Obama made his speech was that the bills in question did not allow any verification of citizenship, the question could not be ask. This was changed on the bill after the speech was made in the middle of the night without fanfare.

And here is another link to a fact check.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjJmNjY4Mj...

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 2:11pm

The problem when President Obama made his speech was that the bills in question did not allow any verification of citizenship, the question could not be ask. This was changed on the bill after the speech was made in the middle of the night without fanfare.

And here is another link to a fact check.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NjJmNjY4Mj...

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:19pm

The problem with requiring some sort of "verification of citizenship" is well, how DOES one do so in an efficient, quick way? And if such a quick verification cannot be done, then we'd have something that gets bogged down in red tape, all as precious time and money tick away. Finally, how much do you want to bet that unless verification were mandated for 100% of people, that it quickly ends up being used for racial profiling?

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:19pm

The problem with requiring some sort of "verification of citizenship" is well, how DOES one do so in an efficient, quick way? And if such a quick verification cannot be done, then we'd have something that gets bogged down in red tape, all as precious time and money tick away. Finally, how much do you want to bet that unless verification were mandated for 100% of people, that it quickly ends up being used for racial profiling?

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:24pm

I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again. IMHO it's not at all clear that the biblical command to care for one's neighbors and strangers means that illegal immigrants have to be eligible to receive various entitlements. Other than receiving basic, humane treatment due everyone, they frankly have no right to stay. Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize, but I don't see such things as biblically mandated.

by: Ngchen

09-29-2009 @ 3:24pm

I've mentioned it before, but I'll mention it again. IMHO it's not at all clear that the biblical command to care for one's neighbors and strangers means that illegal immigrants have to be eligible to receive various entitlements. Other than receiving basic, humane treatment due everyone, they frankly have no right to stay. Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize, but I don't see such things as biblically mandated.

by: LadyJess78

09-29-2009 @ 4:33pm

But who defines "basic humane treatment?" I would say that tending to wounds and illness is basic humane treatment. I would say that leaving someone with a broken bone or with festering cancer untreated is inhumane. Some others would not say that. Is allowing a child to die of a treatable illness without treatment a violation of "basic and humane" treatment. I believe there could be eons of debate on that issue, but I believe that it is.

by: LadyJess78

09-29-2009 @ 4:33pm

But who defines "basic humane treatment?" I would say that tending to wounds and illness is basic humane treatment. I would say that leaving someone with a broken bone or with festering cancer untreated is inhumane. Some others would not say that. Is allowing a child to die of a treatable illness without treatment a violation of "basic and humane" treatment. I believe there could be eons of debate on that issue, but I believe that it is.

by: WaveTossed

09-29-2009 @ 6:00pm

"Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize,"

How true. And how sad that people say "perhaps" we should "consider" doing these things. Loosening up the ridiculous logjam at INS would help alot with the problem of "illegals." But there is no political will to do that.

Too often, using the issue of "illegals" contains code words for "let's keep those Mexicans out." Especially when unfounded stereotypes get thrown around such as "they only want to come into our country to get welfare, Medicaid, etc." Most immigrants want to come into our country to work.

Wilson was being racist in his "liar" remark. But not against Obama or African-Americans. He was displaying his racism and xenophobia against Mexicans.

by: WaveTossed

09-29-2009 @ 6:00pm

"Sure, perhaps we should consider loosening immigration laws to let more hard working people come, and to generously allow those illegals currently here to legalize,"

How true. And how sad that people say "perhaps" we should "consider" doing these things. Loosening up the ridiculous logjam at INS would help alot with the problem of "illegals." But there is no political will to do that.

Too often, using the issue of "illegals" contains code words for "let's keep those Mexicans out." Especially when unfounded stereotypes get thrown around such as "they only want to come into our country to get welfare, Medicaid, etc." Most immigrants want to come into our country to work.

Wilson was being racist in his "liar" remark. But not against Obama or African-Americans. He was displaying his racism and xenophobia against Mexicans.

by: nuclearferret

09-29-2009 @ 8:24pm

If citizens are forced to buy insurance or pay severe fines, the injustice is that illegal immigrants are not held to the same status. As defenders of the various health plans point out when discussing Rep. Wilson's remarks, all persons including illegal immigrants receive health care in this country regardless of ability to pay already.

by: nuclearferret

09-29-2009 @ 8:24pm

If citizens are forced to buy insurance or pay severe fines, the injustice is that illegal immigrants are not held to the same status. As defenders of the various health plans point out when discussing Rep. Wilson's remarks, all persons including illegal immigrants receive health care in this country regardless of ability to pay already.

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 9:15pm

After the Wilson debacle we were discussing the issue with my family. My son who just intered college made a comment that illigal immigrants are human too? Yes, thankyou son. BTW He got the citizenship award last spring and part of that award is for respecting people and upholding the constitution. (can a Mennonite do that?). It's a shame what goes on in people's minds. Who hires the illegals? Do they pay taxes here? Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs. Yes, son they are human too!!!

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 9:15pm

After the Wilson debacle we were discussing the issue with my family. My son who just intered college made a comment that illigal immigrants are human too? Yes, thankyou son. BTW He got the citizenship award last spring and part of that award is for respecting people and upholding the constitution. (can a Mennonite do that?). It's a shame what goes on in people's minds. Who hires the illegals? Do they pay taxes here? Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs. Yes, son they are human too!!!

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:23pm

I'm not for the health care plans that Obama is advocating, but if the premise on this entire style of reform is "human rights," then why are politicians, even Obama, declaring unequivocally that persons here unlawfully are not going to be covered? Aren't non-US citizens human beings, too?

The premise that health care is a human right should not extend only to American citizens, or our neighbors to the north and south. It should, by definition, include every human being. So if that's the premise, then travelers from abroad should enjoy their human rights in the United States.

by: xfree9

09-29-2009 @ 11:23pm

I'm not for the health care plans that Obama is advocating, but if the premise on this entire style of reform is "human rights," then why are politicians, even Obama, declaring unequivocally that persons here unlawfully are not going to be covered? Aren't non-US citizens human beings, too?

The premise that health care is a human right should not extend only to American citizens, or our neighbors to the north and south. It should, by definition, include every human being. So if that's the premise, then travelers from abroad should enjoy their human rights in the United States.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:30pm

When I got my drivers license in TN I had to prove I was a US citizen. I needed my birth certificate for this. My GA liscense would not do. That was in 2004.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:30pm

When I got my drivers license in TN I had to prove I was a US citizen. I needed my birth certificate for this. My GA liscense would not do. That was in 2004.

by: BuckeyeDon

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

And it's not at all clear to me that God is so concerned with "borders" as we are. I'm not at all convinced that God even recognizes the status of "illegal" immigrant as we understand it. A human being is a human being in God's eyes, after all. And considering that the US/Mexico border is, by and large, a rather arbitrary line drawn across the desert and not a cultural divide, and given that most of the US southwest was once part of Mexico (and that we wrested away from them in another of our trumped-up wars), I'm just not so sure God's all that worried about anyone's "status." I know that Jesus wouldn't ask to see someone's green card before ministering to him/her.

by: BuckeyeDon

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

And it's not at all clear to me that God is so concerned with "borders" as we are. I'm not at all convinced that God even recognizes the status of "illegal" immigrant as we understand it. A human being is a human being in God's eyes, after all. And considering that the US/Mexico border is, by and large, a rather arbitrary line drawn across the desert and not a cultural divide, and given that most of the US southwest was once part of Mexico (and that we wrested away from them in another of our trumped-up wars), I'm just not so sure God's all that worried about anyone's "status." I know that Jesus wouldn't ask to see someone's green card before ministering to him/her.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

"Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs."

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:35pm

"Why isn't the people who hired these people held responsible for their health care costs."

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:37pm

How can one have a right to another life and property? Are you saying that a Doctor of Medicine is a slave to the rest of us?

by: prk

09-29-2009 @ 11:37pm

How can one have a right to another life and property? Are you saying that a Doctor of Medicine is a slave to the rest of us?

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 11:55pm

Do you honesty think they give the illegals an option on health insurance?

I'm not necessarily for employer supplied health insurance (I'd like to see insurance entirely separate from employment). I do think that if one hires illlegals knowingly they should be held responsible and that should cover their medical needs. (of course that will never happen). It's a tongue in cheek thing. The illegals should be treated like any employee.

If there is a need for illegals here (to get the work done) than somebody should cover their health insurance. In other words I have no problem covering them if the govt. plan mandates everyone should get coverage. If Wilson's claim was right (illegals would get coverage) it doesn't bother me. Like I said in an earlier post-illegals are human also.

I do agree with your assertion that the employer will just pay the employee less money if some of it has to go for insurance. I had a big argument with my brother-in-law about this same thing when he insisted that the employer paid for half of fica (is that correct?). I insisted that he just paid his employee that much less but my inlaw couldn't see that! No, it comes out of the employer! (he's never been employed in his adult life so sees things very one sided).

If this doesn't make sense don't attack too hard. I do agree the employee is "always" paying.

by: kansasmennonite

09-29-2009 @ 11:55pm

Do you honesty think they give the illegals an option on health insurance?

I'm not necessarily for employer supplied health insurance (I'd like to see insurance entirely separate from employment). I do think that if one hires illlegals knowingly they should be held responsible and that should cover their medical needs. (of course that will never happen). It's a tongue in cheek thing. The illegals should be treated like any employee.

If there is a need for illegals here (to get the work done) than somebody should cover their health insurance. In other words I have no problem covering them if the govt. plan mandates everyone should get coverage. If Wilson's claim was right (illegals would get coverage) it doesn't bother me. Like I said in an earlier post-illegals are human also.

I do agree with your assertion that the employer will just pay the employee less money if some of it has to go for insurance. I had a big argument with my brother-in-law about this same thing when he insisted that the employer paid for half of fica (is that correct?). I insisted that he just paid his employee that much less but my inlaw couldn't see that! No, it comes out of the employer! (he's never been employed in his adult life so sees things very one sided).

If this doesn't make sense don't attack too hard. I do agree the employee is "always" paying.

by: kansasmennonite

09-30-2009 @ 12:03am

I'm confused here. Are you saying that wilson's remarks are mute? It doesn't matter?

Anyway, illegals can get health care at an emergency room if they're willing to take that risk but it's probably for a procedure that went on too long already and could of been handled cheaper-better by earlier diag. etc. I would hardly call that health care though.

On the flip side I did hear that the people with insurance pay about $1k per year to cover the uninsured at emergency rooms. Don't know whether this is true or not. I wonder what the average pay of emergency room works are? Is this where the extremely high costs come from? It seems to me that if emergency rooms were used for less emergency type things that costs wold go down instead. I have a feeling that the drs are making too much money in that capacity.

by: kansasmennonite

09-30-2009 @ 12:03am

I'm confused here. Are you saying that wilson's remarks are mute? It doesn't matter?

Anyway, illegals can get health care at an emergency room if they're willing to take that risk but it's probably for a procedure that went on too long already and could of been handled cheaper-better by earlier diag. etc. I would hardly call that health care though.

On the flip side I did hear that the people with insurance pay about $1k per year to cover the uninsured at emergency rooms. Don't know whether this is true or not. I wonder what the average pay of emergency room works are? Is this where the extremely high costs come from? It seems to me that if emergency rooms were used for less emergency type things that costs wold go down instead. I have a feeling that the drs are making too much money in that capacity.

by: bmwalker

09-30-2009 @ 1:58pm

Thanks for a compelling article that got me thinking critically about this issue! In principle, I agree that we should be taking care of the stranger, particularly basic needs. When the rubber hits the road though, if we offered health care to all, including immigrants, then America would suddenly become a much more appealing place to live. I suspect we would be flooded with 2 or 3x the immigrants we have now...and that's great, except that I suspect such a drastic influx would destabilize both our country AND the countries (namely Mexico) that immigrants would be leaving. I could be off on that, but would love the hear someone else's thoughts on it! I like the idea of HC for all, but would it actually work???

Bret

by: bmwalker

09-30-2009 @ 1:58pm

Thanks for a compelling article that got me thinking critically about this issue! In principle, I agree that we should be taking care of the stranger, particularly basic needs. When the rubber hits the road though, if we offered health care to all, including immigrants, then America would suddenly become a much more appealing place to live. I suspect we would be flooded with 2 or 3x the immigrants we have now...and that's great, except that I suspect such a drastic influx would destabilize both our country AND the countries (namely Mexico) that immigrants would be leaving. I could be off on that, but would love the hear someone else's thoughts on it! I like the idea of HC for all, but would it actually work???

Bret

by: xfree9

09-30-2009 @ 2:10pm

Oh, I most certainly believe they do not! I was repeating the argument and premise to show that logically, if that is true, from a "human rights" perspective, then every human being should be included, otherwise it is not "universal," but only "American."

But alas, welcome to 1984

by: xfree9

09-30-2009 @ 2:10pm

Oh, I most certainly believe they do not! I was repeating the argument and premise to show that logically, if that is true, from a "human rights" perspective, then every human being should be included, otherwise it is not "universal," but only "American."

But alas, welcome to 1984

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 2:56pm

I appreciate the stance but am not clear at all on the specific policy stance the letter to the WhiteHouse advocates. Two of the three points relate to legal immigrants and the third one is not clear. In the end it is not clear to me if the letter argues for access to healthcare by illegal immigrants, or guestworkers, or whom.

Lack of clarity too often means 'obfuscation.' Please clarify.

I presume you do not argue that anyone who can make it to our shores can immediately check into the hospital and have whatever procedures they want done provided free of charge. But you don't say that. So, hard to tell.

I absolutely believe this debate ought be about our health systems and not about immigration and abortion. Republicans and conservatives had those issues on the table when they were in full charge of the government--and dealt with them as they dealt with them.

It is not that the provision of services to illegal immigrants is not critical. It is that the issue is non-governance of immigration. And that doesn't get solved by surrogate legislation. By the time health reform measures kick-in there will be several more Congresses with more than ample opportunity to reform immigration. With Republicans so dedicated now to addressing immigration issues and Democrats equally so--it certainly will happen. :))

by: letjusticerolldown

09-30-2009 @ 2:56pm

I appreciate the stance but am not clear at all on the specific policy stance the letter to the WhiteHouse advocates. Two of the three points relate to legal immigrants and the third one is not clear. In the end it is not clear to me if the letter argues for access to healthcare by illegal immigrants, or guestworkers, or whom.

Lack of clarity too often means 'obfuscation.' Please clarify.

I presume you do not argue that anyone who can make it to our shores can immediately check into the hospital and have whatever procedures they want done provided free of charge. But you don't say that. So, hard to tell.

I absolutely believe this debate ought be about our health systems and not about immigration and abortion. Republicans and conservatives had those issues on the table when they were in full charge of the government--and dealt with them as they dealt with them.

It is not that the provision of services to illegal immigrants is not critical. It is that the issue is non-governance of immigration. And that doesn't get solved by surrogate legislation. By the time health reform measures kick-in there will be several more Congresses with more than ample opportunity to reform immigration. With Republicans so dedicated now to addressing immigration issues and Democrats equally so--it certainly will happen. :))

by: wjschroeder

09-30-2009 @ 3:55pm

could someone PLEASE. mybe you JIM WALLACE tell me what bill obama is talking about. BECASUE HE DOESNT HAVE ONE YET. there is NOOOO bill out there that we can look at and say whether w hat he says is true or not. There is nooo bill BY ITSELF that he has stated is the bill he wants passed to base anything on. THIS IS CALLED DECEPTION. obama has lied about just about everything he has ever spoken on. yes abortion will be covered. ALl admendments introduced to make sure it isnt, was shot down in commitee along with all the other issues along with "undocumented" immigrants. BILL WALLACE cold not DISCERN his way out of a wet paper bag. Are not immigrants SUPPOSED to follow RULES. do they not get help now. Are we to just IGNORE the fact that there are CONSEGUENCES that come along with a person choices in life. DO these immigrants have such things were they came from, did they not survive with out it. SO for your last statement why should we not support giving them free stuff, maybe for the same reason I could not go into my doctor and at gun point tell him to give me care for free. ITS AGAINST THE LAW. YOU CONSEGUENCES. But I geuss the bible speaks something about their being no conseguences for your actions if your a minority or foreigner or REALLY REALLY need something.

by: wjschroeder

09-30-2009 @ 3:55pm

could someone PLEASE. mybe you JIM WALLACE tell me what bill obama is talking about. BECASUE HE DOESNT HAVE ONE YET. there is NOOOO bill out there that we can look at and say whether w hat he says is true or not. There is nooo bill BY ITSELF that he has stated is the bill he wants passed to base anything on. THIS IS CALLED DECEPTION. obama has lied about just about everything he has ever spoken on. yes abortion will be covered. ALl admendments introduced to make sure it isnt, was shot down in commitee along with all the other issues along with "undocumented" immigrants. BILL WALLACE cold not DISCERN his way out of a wet paper bag. Are not immigrants SUPPOSED to follow RULES. do they not get help now. Are we to just IGNORE the fact that there are CONSEGUENCES that come along with a person choices in life. DO these immigrants have such things were they came from, did they not survive with out it. SO for your last statement why should we not support giving them free stuff, maybe for the same reason I could not go into my doctor and at gun point tell him to give me care for free. ITS AGAINST THE LAW. YOU CONSEGUENCES. But I geuss the bible speaks something about their being no conseguences for your actions if your a minority or foreigner or REALLY REALLY need something.

by: WaveTossed

09-30-2009 @ 5:37pm

I am a libertarian-leaning person who supports the classical libertarian views on immigration. To see some of these views, visit www.catoinstitute.org at:

http://www.cato.org/search_results.html?cx=0066...

Human beings have the right to travel to locations where work is available. The artificial barriers set up by the U.S. INS to keep law-abiding people whose goal is work from entering the U.S. in order to pursue these goals is a violation of their natural rights. A reasonable policy of immigration reform (with reasonable screening to keep terrorists and criminals out) would help to bring these natural human rights to people.

I happen to part with many libertarians in that I also see access to health care as a right-to-life issue. So I would support immigration reform that would help people come to this country to work legally if that is their choice. And as for health care reform: these people who come here to work should be included in any health care reform legislation.

by: WaveTossed

09-30-2009 @ 5:37pm

I am a libertarian-leaning person who supports the classical libertarian views on immigration. To see some of these views, visit www.catoinstitute.org at:

http://www.cato.org/search_results.html?cx=0066...

Human beings have the right to travel to locations where work is available. The artificial barriers set up by the U.S. INS to keep law-abiding people whose goal is work from entering the U.S. in order to pursue these goals is a violation of their natural rights. A reasonable policy of immigration reform (with reasonable screening to keep terrorists and criminals out) would help to bring these natural human rights to people.

I happen to part with many libertarians in that I also see access to health care as a right-to-life issue. So I would support immigration reform that would help people come to this country to work legally if that is their choice. And as for health care reform: these people who come here to work should be included in any health care reform legislation.

by: SFR

09-30-2009 @ 10:03pm

What most people don't seem to get is that illegal immigrants usually PAY their taxes when they are taken out of their paychecks. But they don't file a tax return, so they don't get any money back, as anyone else making minimum wage would do. Besides, they get no benefit from the social security they pay. So why not allow them to buy public insurance like anyone else, and save us from having to pay for their treatment in the emergency room, too? My senator knows this, but will not speak out about it because he's afraid to lose the votes of his Republican base.

by: SFR

09-30-2009 @ 10:03pm

What most people don't seem to get is that illegal immigrants usually PAY their taxes when they are taken out of their paychecks. But they don't file a tax return, so they don't get any money back, as anyone else making minimum wage would do. Besides, they get no benefit from the social security they pay. So why not allow them to buy public insurance like anyone else, and save us from having to pay for their treatment in the emergency room, too? My senator knows this, but will not speak out about it because he's afraid to lose the votes of his Republican base.

by: kansasmennonite

10-01-2009 @ 10:01am

Yes, the truth has come out! The republicans and democrats are avoiding the illegal immigrant situation at all costs. Just shows where their heart is (getting reelected).

by: kansasmennonite

10-01-2009 @ 10:01am

Yes, the truth has come out! The republicans and democrats are avoiding the illegal immigrant situation at all costs. Just shows where their heart is (getting reelected).

by: Ashleigh101

10-03-2009 @ 8:00pm

I agree. As it is we have many immigrants who come here so that they can get welfare. I don't believe our doors should be shut to immigrants, but certainly we've got some huge problems with our government's ability to financially pay for all the world's poor.

by: Ashleigh101

10-03-2009 @ 8:00pm

I agree. As it is we have many immigrants who come here so that they can get welfare. I don't believe our doors should be shut to immigrants, but certainly we've got some huge problems with our government's ability to financially pay for all the world's poor.

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 10:46am

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 10:46am

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 12:46pm

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.

by: chinesepregnancycalendar

10-25-2009 @ 12:46pm

Do you mean that all employer's should set apart some of someone wages and buy a health insurance policy with it? What if the person would rather just have the money? Do you get it? The employee is always paying, the employer just writes the check to the insurance company instead of you getting it in your take home pay.

Sure, tks for sharing.