Get E-Mail Updates

Singing and Praying Justice, Part 1

"He who sings prays twice." -- Saint Augustine

Related Reading

Take Action on This Issue

Tell the Senate: Don't Cut International Aid

Please join us in telling the Senate: Protect foreign aid programs that help the poor and the needy. 

"What's going on?" -- Marvin Gaye

The soundtrack of the 1970s still speaks to us. Life, as many had known it, was rapidly changing back then. A generation had found its revolutionary voice and was confronting oppression domestically and abroad. Disenchantment with status quo Americanism had sparked the nation's social consciousness. And from the center of this whirlwind emerged a cry for deep justice.

A singer captured the ethos of the age: "What's going on?" he asked.

War, social decay, and racial unrest conspired against a generation. Too many mothers were crying, too many brothers dying. "We don't need to escalate," he urged. Please stop judging and punishing picket signs with brutality. "We've got to find a way to bring some lovin' here today."

Fast-forward almost 40 years and Marvin Gaye's music feels as timely as ever.

At its core, the Gospel is a story about a loving God who reconciles humanity into loving relationships with Himself, themselves, and each other. Justice fits into the story as Christ rights the wrongs that prevent those relationships. Worship as both music and lifestyle should reflect this. But does it?

In a world marked by wars, genocide, street gangs and terror thugs, ethnocentrism, generational poverty, famine, AIDS, substandard housing and education, rampant materialism, religious hatred, and environmental degradation, where's the lovin' in our church music? The kind of lovin' that rights wrongs and reconciles relationships?

The songs that typically rank as the "most popular" in mainstream evangelical churches today are filled with beautiful expressions of God's holiness and love. But they seem to lack a consistent emphasis on worship that moves beyond a personal experience to include a clear declaration of the social-justice dimension of God's activity in the world.

Sadly, too often our church music is directed inward as a distorted, selfish facsimile of worship. We long for God to meet personal needs and mediate justice on our own behalf, radically reducing our songs to individualized laundry lists of wants. Consider these popular contemporary worship song lyrics:

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: SisterMarie

10-01-2009 @ 1:48pm

"Sadly, too often our church music is directed inward as a distorted, selfish facsimile of worship."

That comment captures the essence of where church music has been heading for several years now. Those who led the congregational singing and kept us on time with the motion of their hands (and perhaps a choir) have been replaced by young performers armed with microphones and heavy amplification. Timeless hymns have been replaced by choruses with a half-life that can be measured in weeks. What's at the top of the gospel pop charts? That's what we'll sing. Never mind that the congregation doesn't know the song or that it's difficult to sing.

I know that a lot of the changes were motivated by a desire to be relevant. But what we are witnessing is a "bidding war" to capture this amorphous mass of Christians who move to whatever they perceive to be the trendiest worship style. When I heard them singing, "I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up.

by: SisterMarie

10-01-2009 @ 1:48pm

"Sadly, too often our church music is directed inward as a distorted, selfish facsimile of worship."

That comment captures the essence of where church music has been heading for several years now. Those who led the congregational singing and kept us on time with the motion of their hands (and perhaps a choir) have been replaced by young performers armed with microphones and heavy amplification. Timeless hymns have been replaced by choruses with a half-life that can be measured in weeks. What's at the top of the gospel pop charts? That's what we'll sing. Never mind that the congregation doesn't know the song or that it's difficult to sing.

I know that a lot of the changes were motivated by a desire to be relevant. But what we are witnessing is a "bidding war" to capture this amorphous mass of Christians who move to whatever they perceive to be the trendiest worship style. When I heard them singing, "I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up.

by: martymilligan

10-01-2009 @ 3:34pm

Amazing thoughts. As the music pastor at my church i regularly seek new stuff to introduce and have been looking for songs that speak to these issues, and have wondered if i was alone in this. Community worship can literally speak to every aspect of our lives with God and each other (including our longing for personal contact with the God of love), and i agree, that often what is missing are songs and experiences that open the door for God to challenge our commitment to the needs of others and unite our hearts with those needs. In truth, the church will not embrace those songs unless they are committed to living them out. A self-consumed church will sing self-consumed songs. Many churches are committed to joining God in his desire to bring peace though, and the songs of Sunday morning should echo the day to day life of that church.

It would be great to see the comments to this article include a song recommendation for the church that reflects this article. I, for one, would be grateful. My recommendation: "You Have Shown Us". A conglomeration of writers, the song is on a CD entitled CompasionArt.

by: martymilligan

10-01-2009 @ 3:34pm

Amazing thoughts. As the music pastor at my church i regularly seek new stuff to introduce and have been looking for songs that speak to these issues, and have wondered if i was alone in this. Community worship can literally speak to every aspect of our lives with God and each other (including our longing for personal contact with the God of love), and i agree, that often what is missing are songs and experiences that open the door for God to challenge our commitment to the needs of others and unite our hearts with those needs. In truth, the church will not embrace those songs unless they are committed to living them out. A self-consumed church will sing self-consumed songs. Many churches are committed to joining God in his desire to bring peace though, and the songs of Sunday morning should echo the day to day life of that church.

It would be great to see the comments to this article include a song recommendation for the church that reflects this article. I, for one, would be grateful. My recommendation: "You Have Shown Us". A conglomeration of writers, the song is on a CD entitled CompasionArt.

by: BlueDeacon

10-01-2009 @ 6:09pm

It's not just the music, either -- it's just a symptom of a church culture that wants to add pseudo-religion to Americanism, which craves comfort. I first saw this in the early 1980s when I began watching the 700 Club; I got a healthy dose of personalities and politics but virtually nothing about the Savior and (in retrospect) it left my spirit dry.

I remember in church a year or two ago -- we do a lot of contemporary choruses during service -- that during one service I deliberately substituted "we" for "I." It just felt more theologically correct.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-01-2009 @ 8:41pm

""I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up."

What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?

"The condition of sin robs shalom, but Jesus' justice restores it." The lyric causing you to almost vomit is saying nothing different.

I understand the lyric personalizes the matter; but individuals to come with their lives they have experienced quite personally; and join to sing in community.

I appreciate much of the critique but urge a bit of caution. There is much about music that is stylistic, cultural, and embedded in a journey. A church will journey just as an individual. The place of music in a worshipping congregation will take on different roles at different times. What is the relationship, for instance, between solitude/silence/corporate worship/action. These are not different things--but part of a whole. None of them is the whole. Sometimes the Lord might draw us to a life given completely to solitude--other times we might be completely immersed in action.

"No" I don't think the Lord calls most congregations to spend ten years singing, "I'm going to get my blessing" or the entire church doing so all the time. But I also know there are real folks who are drawn into relationships of God because real things are being touched within them--and there is a class of quite smart, well-educated, 'people-we-ought-listen-to', who often are quite dismissive of theologies and shallow religious practices that engage such folks.

by: laurieHOPE

10-01-2009 @ 11:10pm

As I've been seeing this movement of spiritually driven justice rising in the church, I've been wondering for some time, Who is writing the songs for this moment?

by: BlueDeacon

10-01-2009 @ 6:09pm

It's not just the music, either -- it's just a symptom of a church culture that wants to add pseudo-religion to Americanism, which craves comfort. I first saw this in the early 1980s when I began watching the 700 Club; I got a healthy dose of personalities and politics but virtually nothing about the Savior and (in retrospect) it left my spirit dry.

I remember in church a year or two ago -- we do a lot of contemporary choruses during service -- that during one service I deliberately substituted "we" for "I." It just felt more theologically correct.

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 4:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-01-2009 @ 8:41pm

""I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up."

What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?

"The condition of sin robs shalom, but Jesus' justice restores it." The lyric causing you to almost vomit is saying nothing different.

I understand the lyric personalizes the matter; but individuals to come with their lives they have experienced quite personally; and join to sing in community.

I appreciate much of the critique but urge a bit of caution. There is much about music that is stylistic, cultural, and embedded in a journey. A church will journey just as an individual. The place of music in a worshipping congregation will take on different roles at different times. What is the relationship, for instance, between solitude/silence/corporate worship/action. These are not different things--but part of a whole. None of them is the whole. Sometimes the Lord might draw us to a life given completely to solitude--other times we might be completely immersed in action.

"No" I don't think the Lord calls most congregations to spend ten years singing, "I'm going to get my blessing" or the entire church doing so all the time. But I also know there are real folks who are drawn into relationships of God because real things are being touched within them--and there is a class of quite smart, well-educated, 'people-we-ought-listen-to', who often are quite dismissive of theologies and shallow religious practices that engage such folks.

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 12:30pm

"What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?"

I believe that Jesus's death on the cross paid the debt for our sins, and that his resurrection provided victory over death, hell, and the grave. I'm sorry but I see nothing biblical in the words to that song. Because of Christ's sacrifice, we are forgiven and any suggestion that we, in ourselves, should be getting into any kind of direct confrontation with the devil is ludicrous (and unbiblical).

by: laurieHOPE

10-01-2009 @ 11:10pm

As I've been seeing this movement of spiritually driven justice rising in the church, I've been wondering for some time, Who is writing the songs for this moment?

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 6:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 4:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

by: gwengz

10-02-2009 @ 3:44pm

A couple of very meaningful worship songs are "God of the Bible" (Text by Shirley Erena Murray 1996 Hope Publishing Co., music by Tony E. Alonso 2001 GIA Publications, Inc) and "Longing for Light" (Text & Music by Bernadette Farrell 1993 OCP Publications). Both of these songs give voice to the worship of God in this real world that we live in. They are both in a resource put out by Mennonite Publishing Network called Sing the Journey (2005 MPN). There is good, justice oriented music out there.

by: Eric77

10-07-2009 @ 4:57pm

Oh, don't get my started on contemporary praise choruses and projectors. ugh... I could go on for paragraphs about how Sunday worship shouldn't try to copy every other social forums. It should be set apart - sacred. it shouldn't be like a trip to the coffee shop or workplace. But anyway...

One of the reasons I don't like projecting lyrics is that it removes them from any sort of order, form and structure. Songwriting is like telling a story. The verses are laid out in an order for a reason. You can see that on the printed page. You can't on a projector screen. You lose something when you can only see one line or verse at a time.

Also, I find a learn more about the craft of music writing and reading when I can see sheet music in front of me. I think of all the young people who only sing from projected lyrics who have no idea about the technical aspect of music (beats, rhythm, measures, rests, musical symbols, etc). I think we're doing our younger generation a educational disservice by divorcing lyrics from the written music. But I find I'm talking into the wind most of the times... *sigh*

Done ranting now...

by: JenLaHuera

10-02-2009 @ 4:36pm

Amen!

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 12:30pm

"What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?"

I believe that Jesus's death on the cross paid the debt for our sins, and that his resurrection provided victory over death, hell, and the grave. I'm sorry but I see nothing biblical in the words to that song. Because of Christ's sacrifice, we are forgiven and any suggestion that we, in ourselves, should be getting into any kind of direct confrontation with the devil is ludicrous (and unbiblical).

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 4:44pm

Where is the "Enemy's camp?"

Where is it that we are to struggle against sin and death?

In what realm are we praying that God' rule would be established as it is in heaven?

What the principalities and powers you believe we are to struggle with?

For what purpose do you believe we are to put on the whole armour of God?

Or is there no longer a battle to wage?

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 5:12pm

You know, I'm not suggesting that in our daily walk with Christ that there are not situations that call for resisting temptation or for letting our light shine so that others may see the love of Christ in us. All that I am saying is that the devil gets enough free press in our TV, movies, radio, and magazines. I just find it distasteful to sing about him in church.

(And I am very thankful that the church that I now attend does not include that little ditty or any other of the awful songs that pretend to be "gospel music".)

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 5:54pm

"31. If God be for us, who can be against us? 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is at the right hand of God, who makes intercession for us."

Romans 8:31-34 via Handel's Messiah

As i said, much about music is cultural and stylistic. So I think it is always worth reflecting on what we really react for or against. Even theologically, what we first react against is often because a truth is reflected in words which we do not typically use.

I won't speak for others, but all of my life, I have been through many different styles/brands/denominations of church and music--and in everyone found rather suspect theology in some of the music. If we like the music and overall use of it--we typically pass over the problem stuff. And when someone else uses what we don't like stylistically we climb up on our theological high-horse and condemn it.

So I agreed with almost all the original post and then just found the very last sentence about what almost made him vomit to be of interest. What is the substance of this line that almost made him vomit?

I did notice you somewhat did not take on my questions directly.

The writers would have a more prophetic ministry in our music. Frankly, confronting the "worldly system" (the realm of the Enemy) with an announcement of God's rule is quite prophetic.

But the style/language of the ditty doesn't fit the theological/language/stylistic grid of the writers.

by: cwat52

10-02-2009 @ 5:55pm

Being exclusive, especially in worship, is a dangerous road. Yes, our songs should reflect social justice and radical Christian movement, but these are not the only songs we must sing. Songs of praise and worship, biblically, are used for a multitude of reasons regarding our relationship of Christ. It's like prayer; who is going to read a few verses that reflect prayer in the Bible and limit what we pray for? In the same way, our songs should not be limited either. There is a time for singing about the blessings we've recieved and the joy we have in our own hearts, and there is a time to sing about social justice. Personally I think that there should be a balance of all the different focusses of worship and song, but we'd be singing in Church for hours on end on Sunday's (not saying that would be a bad thing). And the fluff and amplification of modern Christian music is a whole different discussion...

by: gwengz

10-02-2009 @ 3:44pm

A couple of very meaningful worship songs are "God of the Bible" (Text by Shirley Erena Murray 1996 Hope Publishing Co., music by Tony E. Alonso 2001 GIA Publications, Inc) and "Longing for Light" (Text & Music by Bernadette Farrell 1993 OCP Publications). Both of these songs give voice to the worship of God in this real world that we live in. They are both in a resource put out by Mennonite Publishing Network called Sing the Journey (2005 MPN). There is good, justice oriented music out there.

by: Eric77

10-07-2009 @ 4:57pm

Oh, don't get my started on contemporary praise choruses and projectors. ugh... I could go on for paragraphs about how Sunday worship shouldn't try to copy every other social forums. It should be set apart - sacred. it shouldn't be like a trip to the coffee shop or workplace. But anyway...

One of the reasons I don't like projecting lyrics is that it removes them from any sort of order, form and structure. Songwriting is like telling a story. The verses are laid out in an order for a reason. You can see that on the printed page. You can't on a projector screen. You lose something when you can only see one line or verse at a time.

Also, I find a learn more about the craft of music writing and reading when I can see sheet music in front of me. I think of all the young people who only sing from projected lyrics who have no idea about the technical aspect of music (beats, rhythm, measures, rests, musical symbols, etc). I think we're doing our younger generation a educational disservice by divorcing lyrics from the written music. But I find I'm talking into the wind most of the times... *sigh*

Done ranting now...

by: JenLaHuera

10-02-2009 @ 4:36pm

Amen!

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 4:44pm

Where is the "Enemy's camp?"

Where is it that we are to struggle against sin and death?

In what realm are we praying that God' rule would be established as it is in heaven?

What the principalities and powers you believe we are to struggle with?

For what purpose do you believe we are to put on the whole armour of God?

Or is there no longer a battle to wage?

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 5:12pm

You know, I'm not suggesting that in our daily walk with Christ that there are not situations that call for resisting temptation or for letting our light shine so that others may see the love of Christ in us. All that I am saying is that the devil gets enough free press in our TV, movies, radio, and magazines. I just find it distasteful to sing about him in church.

(And I am very thankful that the church that I now attend does not include that little ditty or any other of the awful songs that pretend to be "gospel music".)

by: NC77

10-02-2009 @ 10:56pm

To the authors of this article:

How many homeless do you bring into your fellowship on Sunday mornings to teach about Jesus, then feed them?

We bring in a bus load here!

Rather than criticize others, what are you doing? I would like to know. An opinoion piece on Christian worship is easy to write and look righteous.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 5:54pm

"31. If God be for us, who can be against us? 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is at the right hand of God, who makes intercession for us."

Romans 8:31-34 via Handel's Messiah

As i said, much about music is cultural and stylistic. So I think it is always worth reflecting on what we really react for or against. Even theologically, what we first react against is often because a truth is reflected in words which we do not typically use.

I won't speak for others, but all of my life, I have been through many different styles/brands/denominations of church and music--and in everyone found rather suspect theology in some of the music. If we like the music and overall use of it--we typically pass over the problem stuff. And when someone else uses what we don't like stylistically we climb up on our theological high-horse and condemn it.

So I agreed with almost all the original post and then just found the very last sentence about what almost made him vomit to be of interest. What is the substance of this line that almost made him vomit?

I did notice you somewhat did not take on my questions directly.

The writers would have a more prophetic ministry in our music. Frankly, confronting the "worldly system" (the realm of the Enemy) with an announcement of God's rule is quite prophetic.

But the style/language of the ditty doesn't fit the theological/language/stylistic grid of the writers.

by: cwat52

10-02-2009 @ 5:55pm

Being exclusive, especially in worship, is a dangerous road. Yes, our songs should reflect social justice and radical Christian movement, but these are not the only songs we must sing. Songs of praise and worship, biblically, are used for a multitude of reasons regarding our relationship of Christ. It's like prayer; who is going to read a few verses that reflect prayer in the Bible and limit what we pray for? In the same way, our songs should not be limited either. There is a time for singing about the blessings we've recieved and the joy we have in our own hearts, and there is a time to sing about social justice. Personally I think that there should be a balance of all the different focusses of worship and song, but we'd be singing in Church for hours on end on Sunday's (not saying that would be a bad thing). And the fluff and amplification of modern Christian music is a whole different discussion...

by: laurieHOPE

10-03-2009 @ 12:24am

I don't think anyone would suggest that we should only sing songs about justice, but that the Bible is so drenched in the theme of justice that the contemporary worship playlist doesn't reflect that emphasis. I can think of a few popular exceptions: Open up the Doors by Martin Smith, Hear our Praises by Reuben Morgan.

by: SisterMarie

10-03-2009 @ 12:35am

ljrd,

If you like that style of music, sing it loud, often, and lustily. I just will not remain in a church whose music centers around Satan rather than Christ or for that matter has an overemphasis on the pronouns, "I" and "me". I'm not saying that my preferences are superior to yours - just different. And it's not even a "high horse" thing either. My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

You would no doubt like the following:

Drop Kick Me, Jesus

(Chorus)
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life
End over end, neither left nor to right
Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life

Make me, oh make me, Lord more than I am
Make me a piece in your master game plan
Free from the earthly temptations below
I'??ve got the will, Lord if you'??ve got the toe

(Chorus)

Bring on the brothers who'??ve gone on before
And all of the sisters who'??ve knocked on your door
All the departed dear loved ones of mine
Stick them up front in the offensive line

by: letjusticerolldown

10-03-2009 @ 1:56am

Well it doesn't quite fit the bill for me--but I wouldn't be surprised if Southwestern Sem sings it in the new Cowboys stadium; after they swoop in as a SWAT team first to clear it of terorists.

It does have an additional verse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsWg0bt9kp4

by: NC77

10-02-2009 @ 10:56pm

To the authors of this article:

How many homeless do you bring into your fellowship on Sunday mornings to teach about Jesus, then feed them?

We bring in a bus load here!

Rather than criticize others, what are you doing? I would like to know. An opinoion piece on Christian worship is easy to write and look righteous.

by: laurieHOPE

10-03-2009 @ 12:24am

I don't think anyone would suggest that we should only sing songs about justice, but that the Bible is so drenched in the theme of justice that the contemporary worship playlist doesn't reflect that emphasis. I can think of a few popular exceptions: Open up the Doors by Martin Smith, Hear our Praises by Reuben Morgan.

by: SisterMarie

10-03-2009 @ 12:35am

ljrd,

If you like that style of music, sing it loud, often, and lustily. I just will not remain in a church whose music centers around Satan rather than Christ or for that matter has an overemphasis on the pronouns, "I" and "me". I'm not saying that my preferences are superior to yours - just different. And it's not even a "high horse" thing either. My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

You would no doubt like the following:

Drop Kick Me, Jesus

(Chorus)
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life
End over end, neither left nor to right
Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life

Make me, oh make me, Lord more than I am
Make me a piece in your master game plan
Free from the earthly temptations below
I'??ve got the will, Lord if you'??ve got the toe

(Chorus)

Bring on the brothers who'??ve gone on before
And all of the sisters who'??ve knocked on your door
All the departed dear loved ones of mine
Stick them up front in the offensive line

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:02pm

I found myself nodding in agreement at much of what these men wrote. Too often I find that the contemporary praise choruses found in many churches leave me flat. They seem to be all about Jesus meeting my needs. Some have called them "Jesus is my boy/girl friend" songs. Take out "Jesus" and substitute your high school sweetheart.

On a related note, I've often wondered what may keep a lot of men away from church and I think part of it is contemporary worship music. Most men don't listen to easy listening music stations on the radio. Why would they want to sing the equivalent songs at church? Blech.

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:08pm

My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

I think this is an excellent point Marie. So many churches today don't sing the songs of our forefathers (and mothers). I think it gets to a deeper philosophical strain that runs in the evangelical church. This strain is why attend an Angelican church today rather than a church similar to the nondenominational church of my upbringing.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-03-2009 @ 1:56am

Well it doesn't quite fit the bill for me--but I wouldn't be surprised if Southwestern Sem sings it in the new Cowboys stadium; after they swoop in as a SWAT team first to clear it of terorists.

It does have an additional verse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsWg0bt9kp4

by: SisterMarie

10-04-2009 @ 11:31pm

Our church recently introduced contemporary choruses (with an overhead projector) for the early (8:30) service while retaining the traditional songs for the 11:00 service. In some ways, it is really ironic because the older generation (like me) were the main attenders at th early service (maybe because we're used to getting up early, or maybe its because we have no little ones to dress). So now what we are starting to witness is an increase in the younger generation at the early service while some of the older people are migrating to the late service. I really do want to learn how to sing those new songs, but it's very hard to know when to hold a note and when not because all we have is the words on the overhead.

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:02pm

I found myself nodding in agreement at much of what these men wrote. Too often I find that the contemporary praise choruses found in many churches leave me flat. They seem to be all about Jesus meeting my needs. Some have called them "Jesus is my boy/girl friend" songs. Take out "Jesus" and substitute your high school sweetheart.

On a related note, I've often wondered what may keep a lot of men away from church and I think part of it is contemporary worship music. Most men don't listen to easy listening music stations on the radio. Why would they want to sing the equivalent songs at church? Blech.

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:08pm

My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

I think this is an excellent point Marie. So many churches today don't sing the songs of our forefathers (and mothers). I think it gets to a deeper philosophical strain that runs in the evangelical church. This strain is why attend an Angelican church today rather than a church similar to the nondenominational church of my upbringing.

by: SisterMarie

10-04-2009 @ 11:31pm

Our church recently introduced contemporary choruses (with an overhead projector) for the early (8:30) service while retaining the traditional songs for the 11:00 service. In some ways, it is really ironic because the older generation (like me) were the main attenders at th early service (maybe because we're used to getting up early, or maybe its because we have no little ones to dress). So now what we are starting to witness is an increase in the younger generation at the early service while some of the older people are migrating to the late service. I really do want to learn how to sing those new songs, but it's very hard to know when to hold a note and when not because all we have is the words on the overhead.

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 6:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: SisterMarie

10-01-2009 @ 1:48pm

"Sadly, too often our church music is directed inward as a distorted, selfish facsimile of worship."

That comment captures the essence of where church music has been heading for several years now. Those who led the congregational singing and kept us on time with the motion of their hands (and perhaps a choir) have been replaced by young performers armed with microphones and heavy amplification. Timeless hymns have been replaced by choruses with a half-life that can be measured in weeks. What's at the top of the gospel pop charts? That's what we'll sing. Never mind that the congregation doesn't know the song or that it's difficult to sing.

I know that a lot of the changes were motivated by a desire to be relevant. But what we are witnessing is a "bidding war" to capture this amorphous mass of Christians who move to whatever they perceive to be the trendiest worship style. When I heard them singing, "I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up.

by: SisterMarie

10-01-2009 @ 1:48pm

"Sadly, too often our church music is directed inward as a distorted, selfish facsimile of worship."

That comment captures the essence of where church music has been heading for several years now. Those who led the congregational singing and kept us on time with the motion of their hands (and perhaps a choir) have been replaced by young performers armed with microphones and heavy amplification. Timeless hymns have been replaced by choruses with a half-life that can be measured in weeks. What's at the top of the gospel pop charts? That's what we'll sing. Never mind that the congregation doesn't know the song or that it's difficult to sing.

I know that a lot of the changes were motivated by a desire to be relevant. But what we are witnessing is a "bidding war" to capture this amorphous mass of Christians who move to whatever they perceive to be the trendiest worship style. When I heard them singing, "I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up.

by: martymilligan

10-01-2009 @ 3:34pm

Amazing thoughts. As the music pastor at my church i regularly seek new stuff to introduce and have been looking for songs that speak to these issues, and have wondered if i was alone in this. Community worship can literally speak to every aspect of our lives with God and each other (including our longing for personal contact with the God of love), and i agree, that often what is missing are songs and experiences that open the door for God to challenge our commitment to the needs of others and unite our hearts with those needs. In truth, the church will not embrace those songs unless they are committed to living them out. A self-consumed church will sing self-consumed songs. Many churches are committed to joining God in his desire to bring peace though, and the songs of Sunday morning should echo the day to day life of that church.

It would be great to see the comments to this article include a song recommendation for the church that reflects this article. I, for one, would be grateful. My recommendation: "You Have Shown Us". A conglomeration of writers, the song is on a CD entitled CompasionArt.

by: martymilligan

10-01-2009 @ 3:34pm

Amazing thoughts. As the music pastor at my church i regularly seek new stuff to introduce and have been looking for songs that speak to these issues, and have wondered if i was alone in this. Community worship can literally speak to every aspect of our lives with God and each other (including our longing for personal contact with the God of love), and i agree, that often what is missing are songs and experiences that open the door for God to challenge our commitment to the needs of others and unite our hearts with those needs. In truth, the church will not embrace those songs unless they are committed to living them out. A self-consumed church will sing self-consumed songs. Many churches are committed to joining God in his desire to bring peace though, and the songs of Sunday morning should echo the day to day life of that church.

It would be great to see the comments to this article include a song recommendation for the church that reflects this article. I, for one, would be grateful. My recommendation: "You Have Shown Us". A conglomeration of writers, the song is on a CD entitled CompasionArt.

by: BlueDeacon

10-01-2009 @ 6:09pm

It's not just the music, either -- it's just a symptom of a church culture that wants to add pseudo-religion to Americanism, which craves comfort. I first saw this in the early 1980s when I began watching the 700 Club; I got a healthy dose of personalities and politics but virtually nothing about the Savior and (in retrospect) it left my spirit dry.

I remember in church a year or two ago -- we do a lot of contemporary choruses during service -- that during one service I deliberately substituted "we" for "I." It just felt more theologically correct.

by: BlueDeacon

10-01-2009 @ 6:09pm

It's not just the music, either -- it's just a symptom of a church culture that wants to add pseudo-religion to Americanism, which craves comfort. I first saw this in the early 1980s when I began watching the 700 Club; I got a healthy dose of personalities and politics but virtually nothing about the Savior and (in retrospect) it left my spirit dry.

I remember in church a year or two ago -- we do a lot of contemporary choruses during service -- that during one service I deliberately substituted "we" for "I." It just felt more theologically correct.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-01-2009 @ 8:41pm

""I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up."

What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?

"The condition of sin robs shalom, but Jesus' justice restores it." The lyric causing you to almost vomit is saying nothing different.

I understand the lyric personalizes the matter; but individuals to come with their lives they have experienced quite personally; and join to sing in community.

I appreciate much of the critique but urge a bit of caution. There is much about music that is stylistic, cultural, and embedded in a journey. A church will journey just as an individual. The place of music in a worshipping congregation will take on different roles at different times. What is the relationship, for instance, between solitude/silence/corporate worship/action. These are not different things--but part of a whole. None of them is the whole. Sometimes the Lord might draw us to a life given completely to solitude--other times we might be completely immersed in action.

"No" I don't think the Lord calls most congregations to spend ten years singing, "I'm going to get my blessing" or the entire church doing so all the time. But I also know there are real folks who are drawn into relationships of God because real things are being touched within them--and there is a class of quite smart, well-educated, 'people-we-ought-listen-to', who often are quite dismissive of theologies and shallow religious practices that engage such folks.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-01-2009 @ 8:41pm

""I went to the devil's house and I took back what he stole from me", I almost threw up."

What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?

"The condition of sin robs shalom, but Jesus' justice restores it." The lyric causing you to almost vomit is saying nothing different.

I understand the lyric personalizes the matter; but individuals to come with their lives they have experienced quite personally; and join to sing in community.

I appreciate much of the critique but urge a bit of caution. There is much about music that is stylistic, cultural, and embedded in a journey. A church will journey just as an individual. The place of music in a worshipping congregation will take on different roles at different times. What is the relationship, for instance, between solitude/silence/corporate worship/action. These are not different things--but part of a whole. None of them is the whole. Sometimes the Lord might draw us to a life given completely to solitude--other times we might be completely immersed in action.

"No" I don't think the Lord calls most congregations to spend ten years singing, "I'm going to get my blessing" or the entire church doing so all the time. But I also know there are real folks who are drawn into relationships of God because real things are being touched within them--and there is a class of quite smart, well-educated, 'people-we-ought-listen-to', who often are quite dismissive of theologies and shallow religious practices that engage such folks.

by: laurieHOPE

10-01-2009 @ 11:10pm

As I've been seeing this movement of spiritually driven justice rising in the church, I've been wondering for some time, Who is writing the songs for this moment?

by: laurieHOPE

10-01-2009 @ 11:10pm

As I've been seeing this movement of spiritually driven justice rising in the church, I've been wondering for some time, Who is writing the songs for this moment?

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 12:30pm

"What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?"

I believe that Jesus's death on the cross paid the debt for our sins, and that his resurrection provided victory over death, hell, and the grave. I'm sorry but I see nothing biblical in the words to that song. Because of Christ's sacrifice, we are forgiven and any suggestion that we, in ourselves, should be getting into any kind of direct confrontation with the devil is ludicrous (and unbiblical).

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 12:30pm

"What do you believe Jesus accomplished at the Cross?"

I believe that Jesus's death on the cross paid the debt for our sins, and that his resurrection provided victory over death, hell, and the grave. I'm sorry but I see nothing biblical in the words to that song. Because of Christ's sacrifice, we are forgiven and any suggestion that we, in ourselves, should be getting into any kind of direct confrontation with the devil is ludicrous (and unbiblical).

by: gwengz

10-02-2009 @ 3:44pm

A couple of very meaningful worship songs are "God of the Bible" (Text by Shirley Erena Murray 1996 Hope Publishing Co., music by Tony E. Alonso 2001 GIA Publications, Inc) and "Longing for Light" (Text & Music by Bernadette Farrell 1993 OCP Publications). Both of these songs give voice to the worship of God in this real world that we live in. They are both in a resource put out by Mennonite Publishing Network called Sing the Journey (2005 MPN). There is good, justice oriented music out there.

by: gwengz

10-02-2009 @ 3:44pm

A couple of very meaningful worship songs are "God of the Bible" (Text by Shirley Erena Murray 1996 Hope Publishing Co., music by Tony E. Alonso 2001 GIA Publications, Inc) and "Longing for Light" (Text & Music by Bernadette Farrell 1993 OCP Publications). Both of these songs give voice to the worship of God in this real world that we live in. They are both in a resource put out by Mennonite Publishing Network called Sing the Journey (2005 MPN). There is good, justice oriented music out there.

by: JenLaHuera

10-02-2009 @ 4:36pm

Amen!

by: JenLaHuera

10-02-2009 @ 4:36pm

Amen!

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 4:44pm

Where is the "Enemy's camp?"

Where is it that we are to struggle against sin and death?

In what realm are we praying that God' rule would be established as it is in heaven?

What the principalities and powers you believe we are to struggle with?

For what purpose do you believe we are to put on the whole armour of God?

Or is there no longer a battle to wage?

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 4:44pm

Where is the "Enemy's camp?"

Where is it that we are to struggle against sin and death?

In what realm are we praying that God' rule would be established as it is in heaven?

What the principalities and powers you believe we are to struggle with?

For what purpose do you believe we are to put on the whole armour of God?

Or is there no longer a battle to wage?

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 5:12pm

You know, I'm not suggesting that in our daily walk with Christ that there are not situations that call for resisting temptation or for letting our light shine so that others may see the love of Christ in us. All that I am saying is that the devil gets enough free press in our TV, movies, radio, and magazines. I just find it distasteful to sing about him in church.

(And I am very thankful that the church that I now attend does not include that little ditty or any other of the awful songs that pretend to be "gospel music".)

by: SisterMarie

10-02-2009 @ 5:12pm

You know, I'm not suggesting that in our daily walk with Christ that there are not situations that call for resisting temptation or for letting our light shine so that others may see the love of Christ in us. All that I am saying is that the devil gets enough free press in our TV, movies, radio, and magazines. I just find it distasteful to sing about him in church.

(And I am very thankful that the church that I now attend does not include that little ditty or any other of the awful songs that pretend to be "gospel music".)

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 5:54pm

"31. If God be for us, who can be against us? 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is at the right hand of God, who makes intercession for us."

Romans 8:31-34 via Handel's Messiah

As i said, much about music is cultural and stylistic. So I think it is always worth reflecting on what we really react for or against. Even theologically, what we first react against is often because a truth is reflected in words which we do not typically use.

I won't speak for others, but all of my life, I have been through many different styles/brands/denominations of church and music--and in everyone found rather suspect theology in some of the music. If we like the music and overall use of it--we typically pass over the problem stuff. And when someone else uses what we don't like stylistically we climb up on our theological high-horse and condemn it.

So I agreed with almost all the original post and then just found the very last sentence about what almost made him vomit to be of interest. What is the substance of this line that almost made him vomit?

I did notice you somewhat did not take on my questions directly.

The writers would have a more prophetic ministry in our music. Frankly, confronting the "worldly system" (the realm of the Enemy) with an announcement of God's rule is quite prophetic.

But the style/language of the ditty doesn't fit the theological/language/stylistic grid of the writers.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-02-2009 @ 5:54pm

"31. If God be for us, who can be against us? 33. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is at the right hand of God, who makes intercession for us."

Romans 8:31-34 via Handel's Messiah

As i said, much about music is cultural and stylistic. So I think it is always worth reflecting on what we really react for or against. Even theologically, what we first react against is often because a truth is reflected in words which we do not typically use.

I won't speak for others, but all of my life, I have been through many different styles/brands/denominations of church and music--and in everyone found rather suspect theology in some of the music. If we like the music and overall use of it--we typically pass over the problem stuff. And when someone else uses what we don't like stylistically we climb up on our theological high-horse and condemn it.

So I agreed with almost all the original post and then just found the very last sentence about what almost made him vomit to be of interest. What is the substance of this line that almost made him vomit?

I did notice you somewhat did not take on my questions directly.

The writers would have a more prophetic ministry in our music. Frankly, confronting the "worldly system" (the realm of the Enemy) with an announcement of God's rule is quite prophetic.

But the style/language of the ditty doesn't fit the theological/language/stylistic grid of the writers.

by: cwat52

10-02-2009 @ 5:55pm

Being exclusive, especially in worship, is a dangerous road. Yes, our songs should reflect social justice and radical Christian movement, but these are not the only songs we must sing. Songs of praise and worship, biblically, are used for a multitude of reasons regarding our relationship of Christ. It's like prayer; who is going to read a few verses that reflect prayer in the Bible and limit what we pray for? In the same way, our songs should not be limited either. There is a time for singing about the blessings we've recieved and the joy we have in our own hearts, and there is a time to sing about social justice. Personally I think that there should be a balance of all the different focusses of worship and song, but we'd be singing in Church for hours on end on Sunday's (not saying that would be a bad thing). And the fluff and amplification of modern Christian music is a whole different discussion...

by: cwat52

10-02-2009 @ 5:55pm

Being exclusive, especially in worship, is a dangerous road. Yes, our songs should reflect social justice and radical Christian movement, but these are not the only songs we must sing. Songs of praise and worship, biblically, are used for a multitude of reasons regarding our relationship of Christ. It's like prayer; who is going to read a few verses that reflect prayer in the Bible and limit what we pray for? In the same way, our songs should not be limited either. There is a time for singing about the blessings we've recieved and the joy we have in our own hearts, and there is a time to sing about social justice. Personally I think that there should be a balance of all the different focusses of worship and song, but we'd be singing in Church for hours on end on Sunday's (not saying that would be a bad thing). And the fluff and amplification of modern Christian music is a whole different discussion...

by: NC77

10-02-2009 @ 10:56pm

To the authors of this article:

How many homeless do you bring into your fellowship on Sunday mornings to teach about Jesus, then feed them?

We bring in a bus load here!

Rather than criticize others, what are you doing? I would like to know. An opinoion piece on Christian worship is easy to write and look righteous.

by: NC77

10-02-2009 @ 10:56pm

To the authors of this article:

How many homeless do you bring into your fellowship on Sunday mornings to teach about Jesus, then feed them?

We bring in a bus load here!

Rather than criticize others, what are you doing? I would like to know. An opinoion piece on Christian worship is easy to write and look righteous.

by: laurieHOPE

10-03-2009 @ 12:24am

I don't think anyone would suggest that we should only sing songs about justice, but that the Bible is so drenched in the theme of justice that the contemporary worship playlist doesn't reflect that emphasis. I can think of a few popular exceptions: Open up the Doors by Martin Smith, Hear our Praises by Reuben Morgan.

by: laurieHOPE

10-03-2009 @ 12:24am

I don't think anyone would suggest that we should only sing songs about justice, but that the Bible is so drenched in the theme of justice that the contemporary worship playlist doesn't reflect that emphasis. I can think of a few popular exceptions: Open up the Doors by Martin Smith, Hear our Praises by Reuben Morgan.

by: SisterMarie

10-03-2009 @ 12:35am

ljrd,

If you like that style of music, sing it loud, often, and lustily. I just will not remain in a church whose music centers around Satan rather than Christ or for that matter has an overemphasis on the pronouns, "I" and "me". I'm not saying that my preferences are superior to yours - just different. And it's not even a "high horse" thing either. My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

You would no doubt like the following:

Drop Kick Me, Jesus

(Chorus)
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life
End over end, neither left nor to right
Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life

Make me, oh make me, Lord more than I am
Make me a piece in your master game plan
Free from the earthly temptations below
I'??ve got the will, Lord if you'??ve got the toe

(Chorus)

Bring on the brothers who'??ve gone on before
And all of the sisters who'??ve knocked on your door
All the departed dear loved ones of mine
Stick them up front in the offensive line

by: SisterMarie

10-03-2009 @ 12:35am

ljrd,

If you like that style of music, sing it loud, often, and lustily. I just will not remain in a church whose music centers around Satan rather than Christ or for that matter has an overemphasis on the pronouns, "I" and "me". I'm not saying that my preferences are superior to yours - just different. And it's not even a "high horse" thing either. My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

You would no doubt like the following:

Drop Kick Me, Jesus

(Chorus)
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life
End over end, neither left nor to right
Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
Drop kick me, Jesus through the goal posts of life

Make me, oh make me, Lord more than I am
Make me a piece in your master game plan
Free from the earthly temptations below
I'??ve got the will, Lord if you'??ve got the toe

(Chorus)

Bring on the brothers who'??ve gone on before
And all of the sisters who'??ve knocked on your door
All the departed dear loved ones of mine
Stick them up front in the offensive line

by: letjusticerolldown

10-03-2009 @ 1:56am

Well it doesn't quite fit the bill for me--but I wouldn't be surprised if Southwestern Sem sings it in the new Cowboys stadium; after they swoop in as a SWAT team first to clear it of terorists.

It does have an additional verse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsWg0bt9kp4

by: letjusticerolldown

10-03-2009 @ 1:56am

Well it doesn't quite fit the bill for me--but I wouldn't be surprised if Southwestern Sem sings it in the new Cowboys stadium; after they swoop in as a SWAT team first to clear it of terorists.

It does have an additional verse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsWg0bt9kp4

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:02pm

I found myself nodding in agreement at much of what these men wrote. Too often I find that the contemporary praise choruses found in many churches leave me flat. They seem to be all about Jesus meeting my needs. Some have called them "Jesus is my boy/girl friend" songs. Take out "Jesus" and substitute your high school sweetheart.

On a related note, I've often wondered what may keep a lot of men away from church and I think part of it is contemporary worship music. Most men don't listen to easy listening music stations on the radio. Why would they want to sing the equivalent songs at church? Blech.

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:02pm

I found myself nodding in agreement at much of what these men wrote. Too often I find that the contemporary praise choruses found in many churches leave me flat. They seem to be all about Jesus meeting my needs. Some have called them "Jesus is my boy/girl friend" songs. Take out "Jesus" and substitute your high school sweetheart.

On a related note, I've often wondered what may keep a lot of men away from church and I think part of it is contemporary worship music. Most men don't listen to easy listening music stations on the radio. Why would they want to sing the equivalent songs at church? Blech.

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:08pm

My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

I think this is an excellent point Marie. So many churches today don't sing the songs of our forefathers (and mothers). I think it gets to a deeper philosophical strain that runs in the evangelical church. This strain is why attend an Angelican church today rather than a church similar to the nondenominational church of my upbringing.

by: Eric77

10-03-2009 @ 10:08pm

My roots are planted firmly in a very rural area where we sang the same songs as our great-grandparents with reverence and awe.

I think this is an excellent point Marie. So many churches today don't sing the songs of our forefathers (and mothers). I think it gets to a deeper philosophical strain that runs in the evangelical church. This strain is why attend an Angelican church today rather than a church similar to the nondenominational church of my upbringing.

by: SisterMarie

10-04-2009 @ 11:31pm

Our church recently introduced contemporary choruses (with an overhead projector) for the early (8:30) service while retaining the traditional songs for the 11:00 service. In some ways, it is really ironic because the older generation (like me) were the main attenders at th early service (maybe because we're used to getting up early, or maybe its because we have no little ones to dress). So now what we are starting to witness is an increase in the younger generation at the early service while some of the older people are migrating to the late service. I really do want to learn how to sing those new songs, but it's very hard to know when to hold a note and when not because all we have is the words on the overhead.

by: SisterMarie

10-04-2009 @ 11:31pm

Our church recently introduced contemporary choruses (with an overhead projector) for the early (8:30) service while retaining the traditional songs for the 11:00 service. In some ways, it is really ironic because the older generation (like me) were the main attenders at th early service (maybe because we're used to getting up early, or maybe its because we have no little ones to dress). So now what we are starting to witness is an increase in the younger generation at the early service while some of the older people are migrating to the late service. I really do want to learn how to sing those new songs, but it's very hard to know when to hold a note and when not because all we have is the words on the overhead.

by: Eric77

10-07-2009 @ 4:57pm

Oh, don't get my started on contemporary praise choruses and projectors. ugh... I could go on for paragraphs about how Sunday worship shouldn't try to copy every other social forums. It should be set apart - sacred. it shouldn't be like a trip to the coffee shop or workplace. But anyway...

One of the reasons I don't like projecting lyrics is that it removes them from any sort of order, form and structure. Songwriting is like telling a story. The verses are laid out in an order for a reason. You can see that on the printed page. You can't on a projector screen. You lose something when you can only see one line or verse at a time.

Also, I find a learn more about the craft of music writing and reading when I can see sheet music in front of me. I think of all the young people who only sing from projected lyrics who have no idea about the technical aspect of music (beats, rhythm, measures, rests, musical symbols, etc). I think we're doing our younger generation a educational disservice by divorcing lyrics from the written music. But I find I'm talking into the wind most of the times... *sigh*

Done ranting now...

by: Eric77

10-07-2009 @ 4:57pm

Oh, don't get my started on contemporary praise choruses and projectors. ugh... I could go on for paragraphs about how Sunday worship shouldn't try to copy every other social forums. It should be set apart - sacred. it shouldn't be like a trip to the coffee shop or workplace. But anyway...

One of the reasons I don't like projecting lyrics is that it removes them from any sort of order, form and structure. Songwriting is like telling a story. The verses are laid out in an order for a reason. You can see that on the printed page. You can't on a projector screen. You lose something when you can only see one line or verse at a time.

Also, I find a learn more about the craft of music writing and reading when I can see sheet music in front of me. I think of all the young people who only sing from projected lyrics who have no idea about the technical aspect of music (beats, rhythm, measures, rests, musical symbols, etc). I think we're doing our younger generation a educational disservice by divorcing lyrics from the written music. But I find I'm talking into the wind most of the times... *sigh*

Done ranting now...

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 4:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 4:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 6:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.

by: martymilligan

10-08-2009 @ 6:00pm

This was the first time i ever commented on an article like this, my comment is towards the top. I'm a worship leader so the article hit me and i thought i'd give it a shot and throw out the question of hearing from others of songs that fit the category from which the article speaks. A couple did that, and thank you. Not that i expected my question to drive the posts, but wow, is this what these things are always like? People taking single statements, expanding on them as if the person said nothing else in the post. For many it seems like a big excuse to argue.

"We bring in a bus load here!
Rather than criticize others, what are you doing?"

Is this statement for real? Congrats on your bus load. The original author never said he didn't, maybe he does, who knows, certainly not you. The article was on worship songs.

Also, he never said anything about exclusiveness in worship themes. Of course there are others, of course they all need to come together, of course they can be practiced no matter the medium, the beat, the style, instrumentation, use of modern technologies, etc.

Why so angry everyone? There are lots of good thoughts here, enjoy them.