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A Faith Declaration for Health-Care Reform

by Jim Wallis 10-08-2009 | 3:31pm
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Over the course of the health-care debate, voices of faith have been raised about the moral values at stake beneath the policy discussions. As bills are finalized and moved through both chambers of Congress, now more than ever we need to remind ourselves of the values that move us to reform. From the Bill of Rights to the abolition of slavery, from women's suffrage to the civil rights movement, those who have raised the question of values have often changed our country for the better. Change can be scary in uncertain times, but it always comes when a nation chooses hope over fear.

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Unfortunately, God sent Moses down from the mountain with only the Ten Commandments, and not a health-care bill ready to be passed out of committee. There is no one "right" religious position on how health care should be provided. But I believe there are some fundamental moral and biblical principles on which to evaluate any final legislative agreement, principles on which many people of faith -- even politically diverse people -- might agree. After the heat of the summer's confrontations over health care, it's time for a cooler fall debate. It's time for a re-set of the health-care debate, and a return to some basic principles could help.

Five Principles of Faith for Health-Care Reform

  1. Health, not sickness, is the will of God. We can see this from the story in Genesis of the garden, where sickness was never found, and from the vision in Revelation of a city in which death will be no more. When we are instruments of bringing about that good health, we are doing the work of God. The gospel stories of Jesus healing people, of restoring them to physical wholeness and full participation in their community, always signaled God's presence.
  2. United we stand, divided we fall. The division between those who can afford adequate coverage and those who cannot is a threat to our unity, to the health of our neighbors, and to our nation. 46 million people in our country are uninsured, and millions more who are insured still can't keep up with their bills. Our moral and religious standards say no one should be left out of a system simply because of not being able to afford good health. The common good requires a system that is accessible to all who need it.
  3. Patients not profits. No one should be discriminated against in their health care because they are sick. Our faith mandates that we give extra consideration and help to those who are sick, but every time an insurance company denies coverage for "pre-existing conditions," excluded ailments, or confusing fine print, their profits go up. Every doctor I know decided to pursue medicine to help people. Many insurance companies make a profit by not helping people, but our faith requires it.
  4. Life and liberty must both be protected. The health-care system should protect the sanctity and dignity of life in accordance with existing law and the current rules, and the prohibition on federal funding of abortions should be consistently and diligently applied to any legislation. Strong "conscience" protections should be enacted for health-care workers to ensure they have the liberty to exercise their moral and religious beliefs in their profession. Evidence suggests that supporting low-income and pregnant women with adequate health care increases the number of women who chose to carry their child to term -- if we reform health care in the right way, we can reduce abortions in the U.S. While religious people don't all agree on all the issues of abortion, we should agree that those differences must not be allowed to derail the crucial need for comprehensive health-care reform.
  5. For the next generation, health-care reform should be based on firm financial foundations. Health care is a vital and wise investment for the future of our families and society. But the way we pay for it should be fair and equitable and seek to lessen the burden on succeeding generations -- both in bringing everyone into the system and by bringing the costs of health care under control over time. Our religious traditions suggest that social justice and fiscal responsibility must not be pitted against each other, but balanced together in sound public policy that is affordable for individuals and for society.

So let us have the moral dialogue and debate -- let's take the best of who we are, the greatest parts of our tradition, and use that to lead the way. The misinformation, falsehoods, and outright lies that have been circulating obscure the moral and religious core of this debate: that millions of people are suffering in an inequitable and inefficient health-care system, and that too many powerful people are profiting from that broken system in defiance of the common good. Perhaps the faith community could help model a more civil debate and find the sensible moral center that will help the country find the best solutions to the health of the nation.

To learn more about health-care reform, click here to visit Sojourners' Health-Care Resources Web page.

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by: csack

10-12-2009 @ 6:25pm

i just find it amusing that the article speaks of falsehoods and misinformation and then proceeds to perpetuate a falsehood in making the argument.

you are correct, the number is large no matter what, but i like moving forward from a position of truth.

by: kansasmennonite

10-09-2009 @ 10:00am

Your sentence doesn't make any sense! I guess we shouldn't open any clinics for people, say in Africa? The clinics that opened here offering free care over the weekend (that attrack thousands of people) are not needed-wanted? You people who are worried about giving away health insurance are extremely greedy. I BOUGHT IT, I DESERVE IT, NOBODY IS GETTING ANY OF MY RESOURCES, PERIOD!!!!!!

by: xfree9

10-09-2009 @ 12:03pm

If there is just one uninsured person -- isn't that one too many?

When you are thinking on collectivist terms, not really. When you think about individuals as individuals, then of course it is not a good thing. Wallis et al think in collectivist terms: we, us, united, etc. What they fail to recognize is that a collective has no "will" apart from whatever influences from within are most powerful. Power over people is not the accomplice of the kingdom; peaceful action and nonviolent change is. Using collectivist terms like those above only serve as a power-over argument to manipulate others into bending to their agenda, ostensibly the "will of the people," which is nonexistent. It was not the "will of the people" that Obama got elected; it was the "vote of the majority," which is not equal to "will of the people."

by: xfree9

10-09-2009 @ 12:13pm

Healthy food is a right, too. Does that mean we should be permitted to go to Whole Foods and get what we need because it's our right?

Health care may indeed be a right. But it requires health services, to which nobody has a right, any more than they have a right to the services of another.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-09-2009 @ 5:04pm

I very much agree. We have a whole bunch of Christians arguing about whether it is more Christian that we pool a bunch of money and pay for healthcare (thru government) or that we pool a bunch of money (charitable giving) and pay for healthcare.

And this is our Christian contribution to health--to justice--to fighting sin, disease, and death????

Is it possible our arguments seem hopeless and helpless because we ask the wrong questions?

Wallis keeps trying to nudge us to articulating a moral base for the discussion which is right. But we also just need some simple distinctions to focus the public discussion/debate.

We could list out Ten Social Assets Contributing to Health for All

1. Theology that supports longevity and health (e.g. Seventh Day Adventists)
2. Peacemaking. Non-violence.
3. Healthy environments
4. Public health
5. Community care for chronic disease and disability
6. Fitness and maximum physical function and rehab
7. Preventive Care
8. Integration of acute sick care with wellness/prevention/alternative therapies, etc.
9. Decentralized, accessible, patient-centered, universal access system
10. Access and provision for catastrophic care

That's off the top of my head. Poorly thought through--all kinds of gaps. Just an example.

Then when we tackle reform we could say which components we are addressing and which ones we are not addressing. A reform package must clearly delineate what it is and is not addressing. Part of the reasons I (and others) fear reform is that if the government has a vested interest (e.g. cost control) in all things related to health--then it has an interest in every element of my life, my food choices, where I live, how I live, the treatments I choose to get (or not get) for my children, ad infinitum--it has an interest in every element of the environment--it has an interest in my stress levels. Anyplace the government wants to tread, it can tread on the back of "health."

Effective reform must have limits. Otherwise, amendments can run down every possible bunny trail in the society--and the legislation becomes incomprehensible and unmanageable--creating endless bureaucratic inefficiency.

It is like tax reform. The last tax reform was 25 years ago. Since then there are about 15,000 changes to the code. It is simply too cumbersome to overhaul. An argument for some kind of flat-tax or fair-tax is not that it fixes everything--but that it overhauls a complex system into a simpler one that has the capacity to be managed and changed.

This is part of my rationale for a single-payer system. So we can actually squeeze out (reallocate) costs; simplify; and put ourselves in a position where we can at least attempt to steer this monster.

Then the church needs to stand up and articulate the components of the health system it can engage. These possibilities are real and they are significant.

In Montgomery (AL) the major hospital system still functions with formal ties to the Montgomery Baptists. Church organizations have been the largest single contributor to a national system of senior housing and nursing facilities. We've started everything under the sun--and act like we barely have a corporate clue.

The Leadership Network (outfit in Dallas that advances innovation in megachurches--basically) has a health initiative in which they highlight the basic strategies churches are taking in health-related issues. They see about 10% of what is already out there--let alone think creatively about the ways the church could engage.

There are networks of tens of thousands who share each others medical expenses. These kinds of things could be exponentially multiplied. There is no reason only 7th day adventists should live to an average of 89 years.

And there is no reason we should not make 100 times the use of the expertise and perspectives of persons like yourself in bringing a cross-fertilization of ideas around the world so as to increase health here and globally.

One would almost think we don't really want health. Health reform is something to shout about at each other. And at the end of the day--go on our merry way--until we are on the side of the road begging the Good Samaritan for mercy.

by: carlcopas

10-09-2009 @ 7:10pm

But if the public prophet thinks the president is doing something right, he can't say that because then he would be a public advocate?

by: letjusticerolldown

10-09-2009 @ 5:04pm

I very much agree. We have a whole bunch of Christians arguing about whether it is more Christian that we pool a bunch of money and pay for healthcare (thru government) or that we pool a bunch of money (charitable giving) and pay for healthcare.

And this is our Christian contribution to health--to justice--to fighting sin, disease, and death????

Is it possible our arguments seem hopeless and helpless because we ask the wrong questions?

Wallis keeps trying to nudge us to articulating a moral base for the discussion which is right. But we also just need some simple distinctions to focus the public discussion/debate.

We could list out Ten Social Assets Contributing to Health for All

1. Theology that supports longevity and health (e.g. Seventh Day Adventists)
2. Peacemaking. Non-violence.
3. Healthy environments
4. Public health
5. Community care for chronic disease and disability
6. Fitness and maximum physical function and rehab
7. Preventive Care
8. Integration of acute sick care with wellness/prevention/alternative therapies, etc.
9. Decentralized, accessible, patient-centered, universal access system
10. Access and provision for catastrophic care

That's off the top of my head. Poorly thought through--all kinds of gaps. Just an example.

Then when we tackle reform we could say which components we are addressing and which ones we are not addressing. A reform package must clearly delineate what it is and is not addressing. Part of the reasons I (and others) fear reform is that if the government has a vested interest (e.g. cost control) in all things related to health--then it has an interest in every element of my life, my food choices, where I live, how I live, the treatments I choose to get (or not get) for my children, ad infinitum--it has an interest in every element of the environment--it has an interest in my stress levels. Anyplace the government wants to tread, it can tread on the back of "health."

Effective reform must have limits. Otherwise, amendments can run down every possible bunny trail in the society--and the legislation becomes incomprehensible and unmanageable--creating endless bureaucratic inefficiency.

It is like tax reform. The last tax reform was 25 years ago. Since then there are about 15,000 changes to the code. It is simply too cumbersome to overhaul. An argument for some kind of flat-tax or fair-tax is not that it fixes everything--but that it overhauls a complex system into a simpler one that has the capacity to be managed and changed.

This is part of my rationale for a single-payer system. So we can actually squeeze out (reallocate) costs; simplify; and put ourselves in a position where we can at least attempt to steer this monster.

Then the church needs to stand up and articulate the components of the health system it can engage. These possibilities are real and they are significant.

In Montgomery (AL) the major hospital system still functions with formal ties to the Montgomery Baptists. Church organizations have been the largest single contributor to a national system of senior housing and nursing facilities. We've started everything under the sun--and act like we barely have a corporate clue.

The Leadership Network (outfit in Dallas that advances innovation in megachurches--basically) has a health initiative in which they highlight the basic strategies churches are taking in health-related issues. They see about 10% of what is already out there--let alone think creatively about the ways the church could engage.

There are networks of tens of thousands who share each others medical expenses. These kinds of things could be exponentially multiplied. There is no reason only 7th day adventists should live to an average of 89 years.

And there is no reason we should not make 100 times the use of the expertise and perspectives of persons like yourself in bringing a cross-fertilization of ideas around the world so as to increase health here and globally.

One would almost think we don't really want health. Health reform is something to shout about at each other. And at the end of the day--go on our merry way--until we are on the side of the road begging the Good Samaritan for mercy.

by: carlcopas

10-09-2009 @ 7:10pm

But if the public prophet thinks the president is doing something right, he can't say that because then he would be a public advocate?

by: letjusticerolldown

10-10-2009 @ 12:38am

The point is the roles are distinct; and confusing if he does not distinguish. Many persons wear multiple hats.

Jim Wallis can stand up and support the candidacy of B Obama. Jim Wallis cannot stand up on behalf of the Sojourners Community and back the candidacy of B Obama if Sojo holds a non-profit, charitable status with IRS. He can wear multiple hats.

I don't think it is a big matter to ask for clarity when he shifts into partisan gear. I have zero problem with the role. It is conflating the roles. It is no different than if he were President. He could well believe a particular policy were the will of God for the nation. But I would not expect him to stand up and say--"This is the will of God."

If he stands up today and says: "I support B Obama increasing troop levels in Afghanistan", is it because he believes the war to be just and the strategy right from a Kingdom perspective; or is it partisan support to B Obama so his capacity to accomplish larger agendas in foreign and domestic affairs is enhanced?? I can hang (maybe) with either argument--but I certainly would want him to specify the reason.

Do you think Falwell, Robertson, et al were smart (even if their policy positions were pure Christian) to allow Conservative Republican stategists to leverage their religious voices for political power??? I'd say the same think to Dobson, or any of them. If they think partisan support of a party is best--go ahead. But explain that is what you are doing and don't conflate that with your Christian duty to call all things under the Lordship of Christ.

I may just be writing very poorly and not explaining with any clarity.

by: irish_annie

10-10-2009 @ 2:59am

well said, doc. we are indeed talking 'sick care' here rather than healthcare. and along with any privilege must come responsibility. just as Jesus asked the paralytic by the pool, for those who smoke, eat and drink themselves to near death and then want others to magically make them better, i have to ask, "do you REALLY want to get well...?!" selah.
my daughter is an ICU nurse in a unit where they attempt to wean patients who have developed chronic dependency on a ventilator. a very high percentage of these are either smokers or the morbidly obese. i don't resent them. i pity them. but, it's a concern we must address, for the cost of care is bankrupting our healthcare industry. we need education and prevention before folks get deathly ill, rather than trying to treat only the symptoms of years of self-abuse.

by: JGL1201

10-10-2009 @ 12:44pm

"Patients, not profits".
While the emphasis and criticism aree well taken, its "both and", not "either-or". If there are not profits for providers there will be no health care.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-10-2009 @ 12:38am

The point is the roles are distinct; and confusing if he does not distinguish. Many persons wear multiple hats.

Jim Wallis can stand up and support the candidacy of B Obama. Jim Wallis cannot stand up on behalf of the Sojourners Community and back the candidacy of B Obama if Sojo holds a non-profit, charitable status with IRS. He can wear multiple hats.

I don't think it is a big matter to ask for clarity when he shifts into partisan gear. I have zero problem with the role. It is conflating the roles. It is no different than if he were President. He could well believe a particular policy were the will of God for the nation. But I would not expect him to stand up and say--"This is the will of God."

If he stands up today and says: "I support B Obama increasing troop levels in Afghanistan", is it because he believes the war to be just and the strategy right from a Kingdom perspective; or is it partisan support to B Obama so his capacity to accomplish larger agendas in foreign and domestic affairs is enhanced?? I can hang (maybe) with either argument--but I certainly would want him to specify the reason.

Do you think Falwell, Robertson, et al were smart (even if their policy positions were pure Christian) to allow Conservative Republican stategists to leverage their religious voices for political power??? I'd say the same think to Dobson, or any of them. If they think partisan support of a party is best--go ahead. But explain that is what you are doing and don't conflate that with your Christian duty to call all things under the Lordship of Christ.

I may just be writing very poorly and not explaining with any clarity.

by: irish_annie

10-10-2009 @ 2:59am

well said, doc. we are indeed talking 'sick care' here rather than healthcare. and along with any privilege must come responsibility. just as Jesus asked the paralytic by the pool, for those who smoke, eat and drink themselves to near death and then want others to magically make them better, i have to ask, "do you REALLY want to get well...?!" selah.
my daughter is an ICU nurse in a unit where they attempt to wean patients who have developed chronic dependency on a ventilator. a very high percentage of these are either smokers or the morbidly obese. i don't resent them. i pity them. but, it's a concern we must address, for the cost of care is bankrupting our healthcare industry. we need education and prevention before folks get deathly ill, rather than trying to treat only the symptoms of years of self-abuse.

by: JGL1201

10-10-2009 @ 12:44pm

"Patients, not profits".
While the emphasis and criticism aree well taken, its "both and", not "either-or". If there are not profits for providers there will be no health care.

by: carlcopas

10-11-2009 @ 11:28pm

Letjustice,
actually the comparison with Falwell and Robertson helped a great deal.

Thanks.

by: csack

10-12-2009 @ 6:25pm

i just find it amusing that the article speaks of falsehoods and misinformation and then proceeds to perpetuate a falsehood in making the argument.

you are correct, the number is large no matter what, but i like moving forward from a position of truth.

by: csack

10-12-2009 @ 4:25pm

i just find it amusing that the article speaks of falsehoods and misinformation and then proceeds to perpetuate a falsehood in making the argument.

you are correct, the number is large no matter what, but i like moving forward from a position of truth.

by: carlcopas

10-11-2009 @ 11:28pm

Letjustice,
actually the comparison with Falwell and Robertson helped a great deal.

Thanks.

by: csack

10-12-2009 @ 4:25pm

i just find it amusing that the article speaks of falsehoods and misinformation and then proceeds to perpetuate a falsehood in making the argument.

you are correct, the number is large no matter what, but i like moving forward from a position of truth.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 4:35pm

Is it just for someone who invests money in new pacemaker technology to make a profiit--or are have they only acted ethically if they lose the investment? Or is the value that there should be no risk-taking?

On what moral base do you weigh unrestricted access against financial soundness?

by: csack

10-08-2009 @ 4:57pm

you should revise your numbers. didn't obama magically take the number of uninsured from 46 million down to 30 million in his speech a couple weeks ago?

by: randyhorick

10-08-2009 @ 5:08pm

Of the 45-47 million uninsured, about 1/3 of these are illegal aliens (or, if you prefer, undocumented aliens). Since Obama is not proposing to cover these, the 30 million figure may count only the number of uninsured citizens of the US.

Letjusticerolldown, you are presenting a false dichotomy. The wording of point #3 could be better, but I don't hear people seriously suggesting that the profit motive should be removed from healthcare -- only that it cannot be a motive that trumps all other considerations.

by: padrewayne

10-08-2009 @ 5:14pm

The President receives his "numbers" from advisors.

And at any rate... does the actual number make a difference? If there is just one uninsured person -- isn't that one too many?

This is a moral issue, an issue of faithfulness -- not just fairness. We are told by our Lord to take care of "the least of these." We must not do otherwise.

by: GaryLeeParker

10-08-2009 @ 5:44pm

With the Heath Care debate and Justice Sunday, October 11, 2009, we need to re-look at Isaiah 58 and Matthew 25 in prayer and meditation as God leads us to care for people who less fortunate than oneself:
Isaiah 58
Your Prayers Won't Get Off the Ground
1-3 "Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back-a trumpet-blast shout!
Tell my people what's wrong with their lives,
face my family Jacob with their sins!
They're busy, busy, busy at worship,
and love studying all about me.
To all appearances they're a nation of right-living people-
law-abiding, God-honoring.
They ask me, 'What's the right thing to do?'
and love having me on their side.
But they also complain,
'Why do we fast and you don't look our way?
Why do we humble ourselves and you don't even notice?'

3-5"Well, here's why:

"The bottom line on your 'fast days' is profit.
You drive your employees much too hard.
You fast, but at the same time you bicker and fight.
You fast, but you swing a mean fist.
The kind of fasting you do
won't get your prayers off the ground.
Do you think this is the kind of fast day I'm after:
a day to show off humility?
To put on a pious long face
and parade around solemnly in black?
Do you call that fasting,
a fast day that I, God, would like?

6-9"This is the kind of fast day I'm after:
to break the chains of injustice,
get rid of exploitation in the workplace,
free the oppressed,
cancel debts.
What I'm interested in seeing you do is:
sharing your food with the hungry,
inviting the homeless poor into your homes,
putting clothes on the shivering ill-clad,
being available to your own families.
Do this and the lights will turn on,
and your lives will turn around at once.
Your righteousness will pave your way.
The God of glory will secure your passage.
Then when you pray, God will answer.
You'll call out for help and I'll say, 'Here I am.'
A Full Life in the Emptiest of Places
9-12"If you get rid of unfair practices,
quit blaming victims,
quit gossiping about other people's sins,
If you are generous with the hungry
and start giving yourselves to the down-and-out,
Your lives will begin to glow in the darkness,
your shadowed lives will be bathed in sunlight.
I will always show you where to go.
I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places-
firm muscles, strong bones.
You'll be like a well-watered garden,
a gurgling spring that never runs dry.
You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew,
rebuild the foundations from out of your past.
You'll be known as those who can fix anything,
restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate,
make the community livable again.

13-14"If you watch your step on the Sabbath
and don't use my holy day for personal advantage,
If you treat the Sabbath as a day of joy,
God's holy day as a celebration,
If you honor it by refusing 'business as usual,'
making money, running here and there-
Then you'll be free to enjoy God!
Oh, I'll make you ride high and soar above it all.
I'll make you feast on the inheritance of your ancestor Jacob."
Yes! God says so!--(The Message)

Matthew 25
The Story of the Virgins
1-5 "God's kingdom is like ten young virgins who took oil lamps and went out to greet the bridegroom. Five were silly and five were smart. The silly virgins took lamps, but no extra oil. The smart virgins took jars of oil to feed their lamps. The bridegroom didn't show up when they expected him, and they all fell asleep.

6"In the middle of the night someone yelled out, 'He's here! The bridegroom's here! Go out and greet him!'

7-8"The ten virgins got up and got their lamps ready. The silly virgins said to the smart ones, 'Our lamps are going out; lend us some of your oil.'

9"They answered, 'There might not be enough to go around; go buy your own.'

10"They did, but while they were out buying oil, the bridegroom arrived. When everyone who was there to greet him had gone into the wedding feast, the door was locked.

11"Much later, the other virgins, the silly ones, showed up and knocked on the door, saying, 'Master, we're here. Let us in.'

12"He answered, 'Do I know you? I don't think I know you.'

13"So stay alert. You have no idea when he might arrive.
The Story About Investment
14-18"It's also like a man going off on an extended trip. He called his servants together and delegated responsibilities. To one he gave five thousand dollars, to another two thousand, to a third one thousand, depending on their abilities. Then he left. Right off, the first servant went to work and doubled his master's investment. The second did the same. But the man with the single thousand dug a hole and carefully buried his master's money.

19-21"After a long absence, the master of those three servants came back and settled up with them. The one given five thousand dollars showed him how he had doubled his investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

22-23"The servant with the two thousand showed how he also had doubled his master's investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

24-25"The servant given one thousand said, 'Master, I know you have high standards and hate careless ways, that you demand the best and make no allowances for error. I was afraid I might disappoint you, so I found a good hiding place and secured your money. Here it is, safe and sound down to the last cent.'

26-27"The master was furious. 'That's a terrible way to live! It's criminal to live cautiously like that! If you knew I was after the best, why did you do less than the least? The least you could have done would have been to invest the sum with the bankers, where at least I would have gotten a little interest.

28-30"'Take the thousand and give it to the one who risked the most. And get rid of this "play-it-safe" who won't go out on a limb. Throw him out into utter darkness.'
The Sheep and the Goats
31-33"When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, putting sheep to his right and goats to his left.

34-36"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. And here's why:

I was hungry and you fed me,
I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,
I was homeless and you gave me a room,
I was shivering and you gave me clothes,
I was sick and you stopped to visit,
I was in prison and you came to me.'

37-40"Then those 'sheep' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' Then the King will say, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me-you did it to me.'

41-43"Then he will turn to the 'goats,' the ones on his left, and say, 'Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. And why? Because-

I was hungry and you gave me no meal,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was homeless and you gave me no bed,
I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,
Sick and in prison, and you never visited.'

44"Then those 'goats' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?'

45"He will answer them, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me-you failed to do it to me.'

46"Then those 'goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the 'sheep' to their eternal reward."--(The Message)

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 5:51pm

"Patients not profits" is a worn out retread from the sixties, when protesters declared that food should be grown for "people, not profits."
I've farmed all of my life. The protesters I refer to were ignorant of the love and stewardship I invested in my farm.
The same could be said of this phrase - it is uttered in ignorance. There's a big difference between fixing what's wrong - immigration reform, tort reform, personal responsibility - and giving the services away.
I've always paid my own insurance. So did my parents, and

by: xr7conv

10-08-2009 @ 5:54pm

I don't have all the answers but I want to point out some things that I am currently mulling over.

1. Jesus did not heal everyone that was sick in every town/village that he went to. Only those who believed in Him. Under point number one above what does that mean for me?

2. I try to envision what the group of believers in Acts called a church looked like. They gathered together resources, they assigned trusted men to be responsible for caring for the 'members'. They used some resources for 'missionary' work - that it they sent out people to other places to spread the Word of God. They supported some of their 'leaders'. Now how to apply that to today. Is it a commune? What is it? How about as the family of God we figure out how to take care of our family (which I believe is the Biblical mandate) as an example for society?

3. Doctors not only decided to pursue their calling in order to help people but also in order to make a living - they don't do it for free! The doctor invests his time and money to get through school. Then time and money are spent creating an office and a practice. The same applies to groups of people that invest their time, resources and money into an endeavor to help people. They need to make a living. This is even biblical as the servant who just buried his talents and did not apply them and produce an increase was disciplined. I think this applies to health care and health insurance as well.

How does all this factor into the debate? Like I said above - I don't have the answers. I am just mulling over the enormity of the issue and its impact on the society of the United States. How am I as a Christian and believer in the Lord Jesus Christ supposed to be involved?

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 5:58pm

So don't give away any health care because people like you are the only ones who deserve it?

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 6:02pm

I feel so much better that you claim only 30million are without insurance?

I thought the illegals would get insurance!

Seriously, Todd Tiahard of Kansas (congressman) says that the 47 million uninsured are illegals (don't worry about them), unemployed (they will eventually get work with insurance), and those that simply don't want insurance. Nice congressman, huh? With politicians like this there is no need for health reform. Way to go repubs.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:04pm

If moral values are to be used as a basis for reviewing policies then they do need to be clear. When high costs are driven significantly by expensive technologies/interventions at the margins of what produces good outcomes there is then significant risk-taking (investment) undertaken to meet a public value that all possible human intervention be undertaken to lessen suffering/death. In our system, this then depends on significant possibility of profits--and the investment of capital that might have gone to other purposes. So I tend to think the false dichotomy rests in the formulations that Wallis makes--and is why I ask the question for clarification.

If the values he articulates are as important as he states (and I do believe they are) then they should not be sloppy.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:11pm

Every person residing in the US (not coming solely for healthcare) ought have basic access to health services. (My value)

Did Mr Wallis address this??

So is this his list of values--or the ones he wants on the table to advance current reform legislation? The message is again weakened by not being clear if he is wearing hat of public prophet or public advocate.

Both roles are fine Jim. But should not be confused or you compromise both. I'm sure he's heard the point countless times. And no clarity has been forthcoming. So I presume the obfuscation is intentional. i.e. A compromised voice.

by: butchragland

10-08-2009 @ 6:31pm

I see nothing worse for Christianity than what I call the "Self-Righteous Religious White Right". Each of those words are significant to me.
for more; brwshow.com

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 4:35pm

Is it just for someone who invests money in new pacemaker technology to make a profiit--or are have they only acted ethically if they lose the investment? Or is the value that there should be no risk-taking?

On what moral base do you weigh unrestricted access against financial soundness?

by: csack

10-08-2009 @ 4:57pm

you should revise your numbers. didn't obama magically take the number of uninsured from 46 million down to 30 million in his speech a couple weeks ago?

by: seanbaines

10-08-2009 @ 7:10pm

it should be nonprofit. Question : When you see an accident and there is a injured person, do you ask " are you legal or illegal.?If this person is illegal, you just him/her die.? No you do not. You take him to a hospital and the "payment" is paid by us. the taxpayer. Why not give them basic health care and let the pay a decent healthcare premium so some of it is paid for. These illegals are not going away so we have to deal with them as they do the jobs nobody wants to do. Right. Does the word "Christian fit in here some where.?

by: randyhorick

10-08-2009 @ 5:08pm

Of the 45-47 million uninsured, about 1/3 of these are illegal aliens (or, if you prefer, undocumented aliens). Since Obama is not proposing to cover these, the 30 million figure may count only the number of uninsured citizens of the US.

Letjusticerolldown, you are presenting a false dichotomy. The wording of point #3 could be better, but I don't hear people seriously suggesting that the profit motive should be removed from healthcare -- only that it cannot be a motive that trumps all other considerations.

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 7:10pm

I'd like to think that if we fix what's wrong, and fix it in a responsible manner, then there would be enough funding in our budgets to care for the needy.
Who "deserves" medical care doesn't make any sense to me. Who are the "people like me?" We should all try to care for ourselves and our neighbors. I make sacrifices in other areas in order to pay my insurance premiums, and I'm always willing to help my neighbors - but there is a difference between being helpful and giving things away. "Giving it away" is not good stewardship.

by: padrewayne

10-08-2009 @ 5:14pm

The President receives his "numbers" from advisors.

And at any rate... does the actual number make a difference? If there is just one uninsured person -- isn't that one too many?

This is a moral issue, an issue of faithfulness -- not just fairness. We are told by our Lord to take care of "the least of these." We must not do otherwise.

by: GaryLeeParker

10-08-2009 @ 5:44pm

With the Heath Care debate and Justice Sunday, October 11, 2009, we need to re-look at Isaiah 58 and Matthew 25 in prayer and meditation as God leads us to care for people who less fortunate than oneself:
Isaiah 58
Your Prayers Won't Get Off the Ground
1-3 "Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back-a trumpet-blast shout!
Tell my people what's wrong with their lives,
face my family Jacob with their sins!
They're busy, busy, busy at worship,
and love studying all about me.
To all appearances they're a nation of right-living people-
law-abiding, God-honoring.
They ask me, 'What's the right thing to do?'
and love having me on their side.
But they also complain,
'Why do we fast and you don't look our way?
Why do we humble ourselves and you don't even notice?'

3-5"Well, here's why:

"The bottom line on your 'fast days' is profit.
You drive your employees much too hard.
You fast, but at the same time you bicker and fight.
You fast, but you swing a mean fist.
The kind of fasting you do
won't get your prayers off the ground.
Do you think this is the kind of fast day I'm after:
a day to show off humility?
To put on a pious long face
and parade around solemnly in black?
Do you call that fasting,
a fast day that I, God, would like?

6-9"This is the kind of fast day I'm after:
to break the chains of injustice,
get rid of exploitation in the workplace,
free the oppressed,
cancel debts.
What I'm interested in seeing you do is:
sharing your food with the hungry,
inviting the homeless poor into your homes,
putting clothes on the shivering ill-clad,
being available to your own families.
Do this and the lights will turn on,
and your lives will turn around at once.
Your righteousness will pave your way.
The God of glory will secure your passage.
Then when you pray, God will answer.
You'll call out for help and I'll say, 'Here I am.'
A Full Life in the Emptiest of Places
9-12"If you get rid of unfair practices,
quit blaming victims,
quit gossiping about other people's sins,
If you are generous with the hungry
and start giving yourselves to the down-and-out,
Your lives will begin to glow in the darkness,
your shadowed lives will be bathed in sunlight.
I will always show you where to go.
I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places-
firm muscles, strong bones.
You'll be like a well-watered garden,
a gurgling spring that never runs dry.
You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew,
rebuild the foundations from out of your past.
You'll be known as those who can fix anything,
restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate,
make the community livable again.

13-14"If you watch your step on the Sabbath
and don't use my holy day for personal advantage,
If you treat the Sabbath as a day of joy,
God's holy day as a celebration,
If you honor it by refusing 'business as usual,'
making money, running here and there-
Then you'll be free to enjoy God!
Oh, I'll make you ride high and soar above it all.
I'll make you feast on the inheritance of your ancestor Jacob."
Yes! God says so!--(The Message)

Matthew 25
The Story of the Virgins
1-5 "God's kingdom is like ten young virgins who took oil lamps and went out to greet the bridegroom. Five were silly and five were smart. The silly virgins took lamps, but no extra oil. The smart virgins took jars of oil to feed their lamps. The bridegroom didn't show up when they expected him, and they all fell asleep.

6"In the middle of the night someone yelled out, 'He's here! The bridegroom's here! Go out and greet him!'

7-8"The ten virgins got up and got their lamps ready. The silly virgins said to the smart ones, 'Our lamps are going out; lend us some of your oil.'

9"They answered, 'There might not be enough to go around; go buy your own.'

10"They did, but while they were out buying oil, the bridegroom arrived. When everyone who was there to greet him had gone into the wedding feast, the door was locked.

11"Much later, the other virgins, the silly ones, showed up and knocked on the door, saying, 'Master, we're here. Let us in.'

12"He answered, 'Do I know you? I don't think I know you.'

13"So stay alert. You have no idea when he might arrive.
The Story About Investment
14-18"It's also like a man going off on an extended trip. He called his servants together and delegated responsibilities. To one he gave five thousand dollars, to another two thousand, to a third one thousand, depending on their abilities. Then he left. Right off, the first servant went to work and doubled his master's investment. The second did the same. But the man with the single thousand dug a hole and carefully buried his master's money.

19-21"After a long absence, the master of those three servants came back and settled up with them. The one given five thousand dollars showed him how he had doubled his investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

22-23"The servant with the two thousand showed how he also had doubled his master's investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

24-25"The servant given one thousand said, 'Master, I know you have high standards and hate careless ways, that you demand the best and make no allowances for error. I was afraid I might disappoint you, so I found a good hiding place and secured your money. Here it is, safe and sound down to the last cent.'

26-27"The master was furious. 'That's a terrible way to live! It's criminal to live cautiously like that! If you knew I was after the best, why did you do less than the least? The least you could have done would have been to invest the sum with the bankers, where at least I would have gotten a little interest.

28-30"'Take the thousand and give it to the one who risked the most. And get rid of this "play-it-safe" who won't go out on a limb. Throw him out into utter darkness.'
The Sheep and the Goats
31-33"When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, putting sheep to his right and goats to his left.

34-36"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. And here's why:

I was hungry and you fed me,
I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,
I was homeless and you gave me a room,
I was shivering and you gave me clothes,
I was sick and you stopped to visit,
I was in prison and you came to me.'

37-40"Then those 'sheep' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' Then the King will say, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me-you did it to me.'

41-43"Then he will turn to the 'goats,' the ones on his left, and say, 'Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. And why? Because-

I was hungry and you gave me no meal,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was homeless and you gave me no bed,
I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,
Sick and in prison, and you never visited.'

44"Then those 'goats' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?'

45"He will answer them, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me-you failed to do it to me.'

46"Then those 'goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the 'sheep' to their eternal reward."--(The Message)

by: brianregrut

10-08-2009 @ 7:21pm

1. "Health, not sickness, is the will of God." And then Adam and Eve walked out of the will of God and we're stuck with a world filled with sickness, and looking at Jesus' example isn't very promising. He didn't heal most of the sick in which he came in contact. He proved that he could heal remotely but only healed a few. That's not exactly justification for universal health insurance.

2. "United we stand, divided we fall." What is affordable coverage? Who determines affordability? There will always be a divide between rich and poor on everything including food, clothing, shelter, health care. This division has always been with us, but we have not divided. The division will likely come when the minority are paying taxes to provide services to the majority, and they decide enough is enough.

3. "Patients not profits." Profits do not go up when an insurance company denies coverage because of pre-existing conditions. If it denies coverage it does not collect premiums and therefore it does not increase its profits. It does not increase its profits when it excludes certain ailments or has confusing fine print. An insurance company assesses risk and places a cost on that risk. Exclusions and fine print are part of the contract that assigns a cost to the risks inherent in the contract. Profit is what is left over after a company subtracts costs (payments for services as defined by the contracts it writes) from income collected (premiums for the contracted services). The companies are not charities and must adhere to the terms of the contracts. Want fewer profits? Increase competition. A start would be to allow insurance companies to compete without constraints of state mandates, and separate insurance from employment.

4. "Life and liberty must both be protected." Absolutely. We, as Christians, should be in the forefront of the fight to restore the values that celebrated two parent households, personal responsibility, and the joy of labor. WE should also ensure that health care workers, including pharmacists should not be compelled to provide products or perform services that run counter to their personal beliefs. That can only happen if the government is removed as a health care payer, because so long as the government is doling out the money, there will be political pressure to control the care givers.

5. "For the next generation, health-care reform should be based on firm financial foundations." Let's start with reforming Medicare, getting rid of co-pays that mask the true cost of care, rewarding those with healthy lifestyles, and providing a safety net for the chronically sick and those with unexpected catastrophic illnesses.

Unfortunately none of the health care reform bills circulating on Capitol Hill are anywhere close to addressing these issues.

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 5:51pm

"Patients not profits" is a worn out retread from the sixties, when protesters declared that food should be grown for "people, not profits."
I've farmed all of my life. The protesters I refer to were ignorant of the love and stewardship I invested in my farm.
The same could be said of this phrase - it is uttered in ignorance. There's a big difference between fixing what's wrong - immigration reform, tort reform, personal responsibility - and giving the services away.
I've always paid my own insurance. So did my parents, and

by: xr7conv

10-08-2009 @ 5:54pm

I don't have all the answers but I want to point out some things that I am currently mulling over.

1. Jesus did not heal everyone that was sick in every town/village that he went to. Only those who believed in Him. Under point number one above what does that mean for me?

2. I try to envision what the group of believers in Acts called a church looked like. They gathered together resources, they assigned trusted men to be responsible for caring for the 'members'. They used some resources for 'missionary' work - that it they sent out people to other places to spread the Word of God. They supported some of their 'leaders'. Now how to apply that to today. Is it a commune? What is it? How about as the family of God we figure out how to take care of our family (which I believe is the Biblical mandate) as an example for society?

3. Doctors not only decided to pursue their calling in order to help people but also in order to make a living - they don't do it for free! The doctor invests his time and money to get through school. Then time and money are spent creating an office and a practice. The same applies to groups of people that invest their time, resources and money into an endeavor to help people. They need to make a living. This is even biblical as the servant who just buried his talents and did not apply them and produce an increase was disciplined. I think this applies to health care and health insurance as well.

How does all this factor into the debate? Like I said above - I don't have the answers. I am just mulling over the enormity of the issue and its impact on the society of the United States. How am I as a Christian and believer in the Lord Jesus Christ supposed to be involved?

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 5:58pm

So don't give away any health care because people like you are the only ones who deserve it?

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 8:24pm

"Health, not sickness, is the will of God." And then Adam and Eve walked out of the will of God and we're stuck with a world filled with sickness, and looking at Jesus' example isn't very promising."

Apparently you do not believe there to be a salvation in Jesus that overcomes the curse of sin and death. It is probably hard to get very far on this blog towards identifying a common, transcendent moral system on which to evaluate health reform with a huge difference on that issue.

Please clarify.

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 6:02pm

I feel so much better that you claim only 30million are without insurance?

I thought the illegals would get insurance!

Seriously, Todd Tiahard of Kansas (congressman) says that the 47 million uninsured are illegals (don't worry about them), unemployed (they will eventually get work with insurance), and those that simply don't want insurance. Nice congressman, huh? With politicians like this there is no need for health reform. Way to go repubs.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:04pm

If moral values are to be used as a basis for reviewing policies then they do need to be clear. When high costs are driven significantly by expensive technologies/interventions at the margins of what produces good outcomes there is then significant risk-taking (investment) undertaken to meet a public value that all possible human intervention be undertaken to lessen suffering/death. In our system, this then depends on significant possibility of profits--and the investment of capital that might have gone to other purposes. So I tend to think the false dichotomy rests in the formulations that Wallis makes--and is why I ask the question for clarification.

If the values he articulates are as important as he states (and I do believe they are) then they should not be sloppy.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 8:37pm

I absolutely agree. And I would not ever refer to persons as illegals. It is like addressing people who speed as illegals.

I think our failure to govern immigration is atrocious. But that is our government. And it is not fixed by hammering on people who are told by our society, "Come but pretend you don't exist. Work so we can't see you. And don't you dare get in an accident or spill a cup of coffee."

Immigration is dealt with in comprehensive immigration reform. This is health reform and our consideration of how to respond to the man laying on the side of the road who looks different than us.

by: Kevin Wayne

10-08-2009 @ 8:57pm

Jim Wallis & Co: Sorry to burst your bubble. As Business Week has pointed out, the Insurance Companies have already won:

www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

I am in agreement that the profit motive should be totally taken out of Health Care. It is the only way we will remove the problem of Health Insurance Executives shunting the most sick into Medicare, thereby taxing the system & causing costs to go up. That doesn't even address the some $300,000,000,000 per year that is estimated in fraudulent insurance payments that greedy Insurance Agents bilk Medicare for. Arguments like "invest money in new pacemaker technology" are a schill. That's what our universities & military industrial complex are for. Capitalism reduces things and relationships to commodities. I am not a commodity and neither is my health, nor the health of those I care about. If the Military can do their whole health-care system without a competitive edge, so can the rest of society.

I can't believe people are still beating the drum beat the Obama plan. I just heard Ralph Nader speak Sunday & he thinks it's a done deal. Single Payer is the only true Reform.

www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

For those of you who get ESA's Prism Epistle, here are a couple of the links that were provided:

How American Health Care Killed My Father
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200909/hea...

Testimony of Wendell Potter before the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/pott...

From: http://www.esa-online.org/Article.asp?RecordKey...

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:11pm

Every person residing in the US (not coming solely for healthcare) ought have basic access to health services. (My value)

Did Mr Wallis address this??

So is this his list of values--or the ones he wants on the table to advance current reform legislation? The message is again weakened by not being clear if he is wearing hat of public prophet or public advocate.

Both roles are fine Jim. But should not be confused or you compromise both. I'm sure he's heard the point countless times. And no clarity has been forthcoming. So I presume the obfuscation is intentional. i.e. A compromised voice.

by: rhirschler

10-08-2009 @ 9:10pm

As a Christian physician who has worked during the past 40 years in several rural mission hospitals on three contenents, I have seen and learned much about how health affects people and their actions affect health. Unfortunately the USA has confused health care with sickness care. At my 40th class reunion this year at NE U Med School I learned that they have finally made a position for Dean of Public Health in their school. Most people in America do not even know one public health doctor, and unfortunately our system separates the public health approach from the curative approach. We always need preventive health measures and sometimes the curative approach. Also, unfortunately, we reimburse the curative activities much higher than the preventive teaching and activities. Should we have people who do the things like smoking and other proven health destroying activities pay more to cover the extra expense in curative care?
In another area, we hear some Christians say we do not want the government to have a say in our health care. At the same time they support our government in fighting wars in other peoples countries so that our government can tell them what to do. I find real inconsistancies in their logic. It seems like spending some tax money to support people seeking health care in this country is a much more Christian approach than to spend our taxes on milatary hardware and war on the people we called our friends 20 years ago.
Sincerely in Christ,
Richard Hirschler MD

by: revlindahiggins

10-08-2009 @ 9:23pm

Why should I have to trade my right to my body as a woman for health care keep the abortion fights out so progressive women can work with you

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by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 4:35pm

Is it just for someone who invests money in new pacemaker technology to make a profiit--or are have they only acted ethically if they lose the investment? Or is the value that there should be no risk-taking?

On what moral base do you weigh unrestricted access against financial soundness?

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 4:35pm

Is it just for someone who invests money in new pacemaker technology to make a profiit--or are have they only acted ethically if they lose the investment? Or is the value that there should be no risk-taking?

On what moral base do you weigh unrestricted access against financial soundness?

by: csack

10-08-2009 @ 4:57pm

you should revise your numbers. didn't obama magically take the number of uninsured from 46 million down to 30 million in his speech a couple weeks ago?

by: csack

10-08-2009 @ 4:57pm

you should revise your numbers. didn't obama magically take the number of uninsured from 46 million down to 30 million in his speech a couple weeks ago?

by: randyhorick

10-08-2009 @ 5:08pm

Of the 45-47 million uninsured, about 1/3 of these are illegal aliens (or, if you prefer, undocumented aliens). Since Obama is not proposing to cover these, the 30 million figure may count only the number of uninsured citizens of the US.

Letjusticerolldown, you are presenting a false dichotomy. The wording of point #3 could be better, but I don't hear people seriously suggesting that the profit motive should be removed from healthcare -- only that it cannot be a motive that trumps all other considerations.

by: randyhorick

10-08-2009 @ 5:08pm

Of the 45-47 million uninsured, about 1/3 of these are illegal aliens (or, if you prefer, undocumented aliens). Since Obama is not proposing to cover these, the 30 million figure may count only the number of uninsured citizens of the US.

Letjusticerolldown, you are presenting a false dichotomy. The wording of point #3 could be better, but I don't hear people seriously suggesting that the profit motive should be removed from healthcare -- only that it cannot be a motive that trumps all other considerations.

by: padrewayne

10-08-2009 @ 5:14pm

The President receives his "numbers" from advisors.

And at any rate... does the actual number make a difference? If there is just one uninsured person -- isn't that one too many?

This is a moral issue, an issue of faithfulness -- not just fairness. We are told by our Lord to take care of "the least of these." We must not do otherwise.

by: padrewayne

10-08-2009 @ 5:14pm

The President receives his "numbers" from advisors.

And at any rate... does the actual number make a difference? If there is just one uninsured person -- isn't that one too many?

This is a moral issue, an issue of faithfulness -- not just fairness. We are told by our Lord to take care of "the least of these." We must not do otherwise.

by: GaryLeeParker

10-08-2009 @ 5:44pm

With the Heath Care debate and Justice Sunday, October 11, 2009, we need to re-look at Isaiah 58 and Matthew 25 in prayer and meditation as God leads us to care for people who less fortunate than oneself:
Isaiah 58
Your Prayers Won't Get Off the Ground
1-3 "Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back-a trumpet-blast shout!
Tell my people what's wrong with their lives,
face my family Jacob with their sins!
They're busy, busy, busy at worship,
and love studying all about me.
To all appearances they're a nation of right-living people-
law-abiding, God-honoring.
They ask me, 'What's the right thing to do?'
and love having me on their side.
But they also complain,
'Why do we fast and you don't look our way?
Why do we humble ourselves and you don't even notice?'

3-5"Well, here's why:

"The bottom line on your 'fast days' is profit.
You drive your employees much too hard.
You fast, but at the same time you bicker and fight.
You fast, but you swing a mean fist.
The kind of fasting you do
won't get your prayers off the ground.
Do you think this is the kind of fast day I'm after:
a day to show off humility?
To put on a pious long face
and parade around solemnly in black?
Do you call that fasting,
a fast day that I, God, would like?

6-9"This is the kind of fast day I'm after:
to break the chains of injustice,
get rid of exploitation in the workplace,
free the oppressed,
cancel debts.
What I'm interested in seeing you do is:
sharing your food with the hungry,
inviting the homeless poor into your homes,
putting clothes on the shivering ill-clad,
being available to your own families.
Do this and the lights will turn on,
and your lives will turn around at once.
Your righteousness will pave your way.
The God of glory will secure your passage.
Then when you pray, God will answer.
You'll call out for help and I'll say, 'Here I am.'
A Full Life in the Emptiest of Places
9-12"If you get rid of unfair practices,
quit blaming victims,
quit gossiping about other people's sins,
If you are generous with the hungry
and start giving yourselves to the down-and-out,
Your lives will begin to glow in the darkness,
your shadowed lives will be bathed in sunlight.
I will always show you where to go.
I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places-
firm muscles, strong bones.
You'll be like a well-watered garden,
a gurgling spring that never runs dry.
You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew,
rebuild the foundations from out of your past.
You'll be known as those who can fix anything,
restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate,
make the community livable again.

13-14"If you watch your step on the Sabbath
and don't use my holy day for personal advantage,
If you treat the Sabbath as a day of joy,
God's holy day as a celebration,
If you honor it by refusing 'business as usual,'
making money, running here and there-
Then you'll be free to enjoy God!
Oh, I'll make you ride high and soar above it all.
I'll make you feast on the inheritance of your ancestor Jacob."
Yes! God says so!--(The Message)

Matthew 25
The Story of the Virgins
1-5 "God's kingdom is like ten young virgins who took oil lamps and went out to greet the bridegroom. Five were silly and five were smart. The silly virgins took lamps, but no extra oil. The smart virgins took jars of oil to feed their lamps. The bridegroom didn't show up when they expected him, and they all fell asleep.

6"In the middle of the night someone yelled out, 'He's here! The bridegroom's here! Go out and greet him!'

7-8"The ten virgins got up and got their lamps ready. The silly virgins said to the smart ones, 'Our lamps are going out; lend us some of your oil.'

9"They answered, 'There might not be enough to go around; go buy your own.'

10"They did, but while they were out buying oil, the bridegroom arrived. When everyone who was there to greet him had gone into the wedding feast, the door was locked.

11"Much later, the other virgins, the silly ones, showed up and knocked on the door, saying, 'Master, we're here. Let us in.'

12"He answered, 'Do I know you? I don't think I know you.'

13"So stay alert. You have no idea when he might arrive.
The Story About Investment
14-18"It's also like a man going off on an extended trip. He called his servants together and delegated responsibilities. To one he gave five thousand dollars, to another two thousand, to a third one thousand, depending on their abilities. Then he left. Right off, the first servant went to work and doubled his master's investment. The second did the same. But the man with the single thousand dug a hole and carefully buried his master's money.

19-21"After a long absence, the master of those three servants came back and settled up with them. The one given five thousand dollars showed him how he had doubled his investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

22-23"The servant with the two thousand showed how he also had doubled his master's investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

24-25"The servant given one thousand said, 'Master, I know you have high standards and hate careless ways, that you demand the best and make no allowances for error. I was afraid I might disappoint you, so I found a good hiding place and secured your money. Here it is, safe and sound down to the last cent.'

26-27"The master was furious. 'That's a terrible way to live! It's criminal to live cautiously like that! If you knew I was after the best, why did you do less than the least? The least you could have done would have been to invest the sum with the bankers, where at least I would have gotten a little interest.

28-30"'Take the thousand and give it to the one who risked the most. And get rid of this "play-it-safe" who won't go out on a limb. Throw him out into utter darkness.'
The Sheep and the Goats
31-33"When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, putting sheep to his right and goats to his left.

34-36"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. And here's why:

I was hungry and you fed me,
I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,
I was homeless and you gave me a room,
I was shivering and you gave me clothes,
I was sick and you stopped to visit,
I was in prison and you came to me.'

37-40"Then those 'sheep' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' Then the King will say, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me-you did it to me.'

41-43"Then he will turn to the 'goats,' the ones on his left, and say, 'Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. And why? Because-

I was hungry and you gave me no meal,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was homeless and you gave me no bed,
I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,
Sick and in prison, and you never visited.'

44"Then those 'goats' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?'

45"He will answer them, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me-you failed to do it to me.'

46"Then those 'goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the 'sheep' to their eternal reward."--(The Message)

by: GaryLeeParker

10-08-2009 @ 5:44pm

With the Heath Care debate and Justice Sunday, October 11, 2009, we need to re-look at Isaiah 58 and Matthew 25 in prayer and meditation as God leads us to care for people who less fortunate than oneself:
Isaiah 58
Your Prayers Won't Get Off the Ground
1-3 "Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back-a trumpet-blast shout!
Tell my people what's wrong with their lives,
face my family Jacob with their sins!
They're busy, busy, busy at worship,
and love studying all about me.
To all appearances they're a nation of right-living people-
law-abiding, God-honoring.
They ask me, 'What's the right thing to do?'
and love having me on their side.
But they also complain,
'Why do we fast and you don't look our way?
Why do we humble ourselves and you don't even notice?'

3-5"Well, here's why:

"The bottom line on your 'fast days' is profit.
You drive your employees much too hard.
You fast, but at the same time you bicker and fight.
You fast, but you swing a mean fist.
The kind of fasting you do
won't get your prayers off the ground.
Do you think this is the kind of fast day I'm after:
a day to show off humility?
To put on a pious long face
and parade around solemnly in black?
Do you call that fasting,
a fast day that I, God, would like?

6-9"This is the kind of fast day I'm after:
to break the chains of injustice,
get rid of exploitation in the workplace,
free the oppressed,
cancel debts.
What I'm interested in seeing you do is:
sharing your food with the hungry,
inviting the homeless poor into your homes,
putting clothes on the shivering ill-clad,
being available to your own families.
Do this and the lights will turn on,
and your lives will turn around at once.
Your righteousness will pave your way.
The God of glory will secure your passage.
Then when you pray, God will answer.
You'll call out for help and I'll say, 'Here I am.'
A Full Life in the Emptiest of Places
9-12"If you get rid of unfair practices,
quit blaming victims,
quit gossiping about other people's sins,
If you are generous with the hungry
and start giving yourselves to the down-and-out,
Your lives will begin to glow in the darkness,
your shadowed lives will be bathed in sunlight.
I will always show you where to go.
I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places-
firm muscles, strong bones.
You'll be like a well-watered garden,
a gurgling spring that never runs dry.
You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew,
rebuild the foundations from out of your past.
You'll be known as those who can fix anything,
restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate,
make the community livable again.

13-14"If you watch your step on the Sabbath
and don't use my holy day for personal advantage,
If you treat the Sabbath as a day of joy,
God's holy day as a celebration,
If you honor it by refusing 'business as usual,'
making money, running here and there-
Then you'll be free to enjoy God!
Oh, I'll make you ride high and soar above it all.
I'll make you feast on the inheritance of your ancestor Jacob."
Yes! God says so!--(The Message)

Matthew 25
The Story of the Virgins
1-5 "God's kingdom is like ten young virgins who took oil lamps and went out to greet the bridegroom. Five were silly and five were smart. The silly virgins took lamps, but no extra oil. The smart virgins took jars of oil to feed their lamps. The bridegroom didn't show up when they expected him, and they all fell asleep.

6"In the middle of the night someone yelled out, 'He's here! The bridegroom's here! Go out and greet him!'

7-8"The ten virgins got up and got their lamps ready. The silly virgins said to the smart ones, 'Our lamps are going out; lend us some of your oil.'

9"They answered, 'There might not be enough to go around; go buy your own.'

10"They did, but while they were out buying oil, the bridegroom arrived. When everyone who was there to greet him had gone into the wedding feast, the door was locked.

11"Much later, the other virgins, the silly ones, showed up and knocked on the door, saying, 'Master, we're here. Let us in.'

12"He answered, 'Do I know you? I don't think I know you.'

13"So stay alert. You have no idea when he might arrive.
The Story About Investment
14-18"It's also like a man going off on an extended trip. He called his servants together and delegated responsibilities. To one he gave five thousand dollars, to another two thousand, to a third one thousand, depending on their abilities. Then he left. Right off, the first servant went to work and doubled his master's investment. The second did the same. But the man with the single thousand dug a hole and carefully buried his master's money.

19-21"After a long absence, the master of those three servants came back and settled up with them. The one given five thousand dollars showed him how he had doubled his investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

22-23"The servant with the two thousand showed how he also had doubled his master's investment. His master commended him: 'Good work! You did your job well. From now on be my partner.'

24-25"The servant given one thousand said, 'Master, I know you have high standards and hate careless ways, that you demand the best and make no allowances for error. I was afraid I might disappoint you, so I found a good hiding place and secured your money. Here it is, safe and sound down to the last cent.'

26-27"The master was furious. 'That's a terrible way to live! It's criminal to live cautiously like that! If you knew I was after the best, why did you do less than the least? The least you could have done would have been to invest the sum with the bankers, where at least I would have gotten a little interest.

28-30"'Take the thousand and give it to the one who risked the most. And get rid of this "play-it-safe" who won't go out on a limb. Throw him out into utter darkness.'
The Sheep and the Goats
31-33"When he finally arrives, blazing in beauty and all his angels with him, the Son of Man will take his place on his glorious throne. Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, putting sheep to his right and goats to his left.

34-36"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Enter, you who are blessed by my Father! Take what's coming to you in this kingdom. It's been ready for you since the world's foundation. And here's why:

I was hungry and you fed me,
I was thirsty and you gave me a drink,
I was homeless and you gave me a room,
I was shivering and you gave me clothes,
I was sick and you stopped to visit,
I was in prison and you came to me.'

37-40"Then those 'sheep' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry and feed you, thirsty and give you a drink? And when did we ever see you sick or in prison and come to you?' Then the King will say, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you did one of these things to someone overlooked or ignored, that was me-you did it to me.'

41-43"Then he will turn to the 'goats,' the ones on his left, and say, 'Get out, worthless goats! You're good for nothing but the fires of hell. And why? Because-

I was hungry and you gave me no meal,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was homeless and you gave me no bed,
I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,
Sick and in prison, and you never visited.'

44"Then those 'goats' are going to say, 'Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn't help?'

45"He will answer them, 'I'm telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was me-you failed to do it to me.'

46"Then those 'goats' will be herded to their eternal doom, but the 'sheep' to their eternal reward."--(The Message)

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 5:51pm

"Patients not profits" is a worn out retread from the sixties, when protesters declared that food should be grown for "people, not profits."
I've farmed all of my life. The protesters I refer to were ignorant of the love and stewardship I invested in my farm.
The same could be said of this phrase - it is uttered in ignorance. There's a big difference between fixing what's wrong - immigration reform, tort reform, personal responsibility - and giving the services away.
I've always paid my own insurance. So did my parents, and

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 5:51pm

"Patients not profits" is a worn out retread from the sixties, when protesters declared that food should be grown for "people, not profits."
I've farmed all of my life. The protesters I refer to were ignorant of the love and stewardship I invested in my farm.
The same could be said of this phrase - it is uttered in ignorance. There's a big difference between fixing what's wrong - immigration reform, tort reform, personal responsibility - and giving the services away.
I've always paid my own insurance. So did my parents, and

by: xr7conv

10-08-2009 @ 5:54pm

I don't have all the answers but I want to point out some things that I am currently mulling over.

1. Jesus did not heal everyone that was sick in every town/village that he went to. Only those who believed in Him. Under point number one above what does that mean for me?

2. I try to envision what the group of believers in Acts called a church looked like. They gathered together resources, they assigned trusted men to be responsible for caring for the 'members'. They used some resources for 'missionary' work - that it they sent out people to other places to spread the Word of God. They supported some of their 'leaders'. Now how to apply that to today. Is it a commune? What is it? How about as the family of God we figure out how to take care of our family (which I believe is the Biblical mandate) as an example for society?

3. Doctors not only decided to pursue their calling in order to help people but also in order to make a living - they don't do it for free! The doctor invests his time and money to get through school. Then time and money are spent creating an office and a practice. The same applies to groups of people that invest their time, resources and money into an endeavor to help people. They need to make a living. This is even biblical as the servant who just buried his talents and did not apply them and produce an increase was disciplined. I think this applies to health care and health insurance as well.

How does all this factor into the debate? Like I said above - I don't have the answers. I am just mulling over the enormity of the issue and its impact on the society of the United States. How am I as a Christian and believer in the Lord Jesus Christ supposed to be involved?

by: xr7conv

10-08-2009 @ 5:54pm

I don't have all the answers but I want to point out some things that I am currently mulling over.

1. Jesus did not heal everyone that was sick in every town/village that he went to. Only those who believed in Him. Under point number one above what does that mean for me?

2. I try to envision what the group of believers in Acts called a church looked like. They gathered together resources, they assigned trusted men to be responsible for caring for the 'members'. They used some resources for 'missionary' work - that it they sent out people to other places to spread the Word of God. They supported some of their 'leaders'. Now how to apply that to today. Is it a commune? What is it? How about as the family of God we figure out how to take care of our family (which I believe is the Biblical mandate) as an example for society?

3. Doctors not only decided to pursue their calling in order to help people but also in order to make a living - they don't do it for free! The doctor invests his time and money to get through school. Then time and money are spent creating an office and a practice. The same applies to groups of people that invest their time, resources and money into an endeavor to help people. They need to make a living. This is even biblical as the servant who just buried his talents and did not apply them and produce an increase was disciplined. I think this applies to health care and health insurance as well.

How does all this factor into the debate? Like I said above - I don't have the answers. I am just mulling over the enormity of the issue and its impact on the society of the United States. How am I as a Christian and believer in the Lord Jesus Christ supposed to be involved?

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 5:58pm

So don't give away any health care because people like you are the only ones who deserve it?

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 5:58pm

So don't give away any health care because people like you are the only ones who deserve it?

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 6:02pm

I feel so much better that you claim only 30million are without insurance?

I thought the illegals would get insurance!

Seriously, Todd Tiahard of Kansas (congressman) says that the 47 million uninsured are illegals (don't worry about them), unemployed (they will eventually get work with insurance), and those that simply don't want insurance. Nice congressman, huh? With politicians like this there is no need for health reform. Way to go repubs.

by: kansasmennonite

10-08-2009 @ 6:02pm

I feel so much better that you claim only 30million are without insurance?

I thought the illegals would get insurance!

Seriously, Todd Tiahard of Kansas (congressman) says that the 47 million uninsured are illegals (don't worry about them), unemployed (they will eventually get work with insurance), and those that simply don't want insurance. Nice congressman, huh? With politicians like this there is no need for health reform. Way to go repubs.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:04pm

If moral values are to be used as a basis for reviewing policies then they do need to be clear. When high costs are driven significantly by expensive technologies/interventions at the margins of what produces good outcomes there is then significant risk-taking (investment) undertaken to meet a public value that all possible human intervention be undertaken to lessen suffering/death. In our system, this then depends on significant possibility of profits--and the investment of capital that might have gone to other purposes. So I tend to think the false dichotomy rests in the formulations that Wallis makes--and is why I ask the question for clarification.

If the values he articulates are as important as he states (and I do believe they are) then they should not be sloppy.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:04pm

If moral values are to be used as a basis for reviewing policies then they do need to be clear. When high costs are driven significantly by expensive technologies/interventions at the margins of what produces good outcomes there is then significant risk-taking (investment) undertaken to meet a public value that all possible human intervention be undertaken to lessen suffering/death. In our system, this then depends on significant possibility of profits--and the investment of capital that might have gone to other purposes. So I tend to think the false dichotomy rests in the formulations that Wallis makes--and is why I ask the question for clarification.

If the values he articulates are as important as he states (and I do believe they are) then they should not be sloppy.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:11pm

Every person residing in the US (not coming solely for healthcare) ought have basic access to health services. (My value)

Did Mr Wallis address this??

So is this his list of values--or the ones he wants on the table to advance current reform legislation? The message is again weakened by not being clear if he is wearing hat of public prophet or public advocate.

Both roles are fine Jim. But should not be confused or you compromise both. I'm sure he's heard the point countless times. And no clarity has been forthcoming. So I presume the obfuscation is intentional. i.e. A compromised voice.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 6:11pm

Every person residing in the US (not coming solely for healthcare) ought have basic access to health services. (My value)

Did Mr Wallis address this??

So is this his list of values--or the ones he wants on the table to advance current reform legislation? The message is again weakened by not being clear if he is wearing hat of public prophet or public advocate.

Both roles are fine Jim. But should not be confused or you compromise both. I'm sure he's heard the point countless times. And no clarity has been forthcoming. So I presume the obfuscation is intentional. i.e. A compromised voice.

by: butchragland

10-08-2009 @ 6:31pm

I see nothing worse for Christianity than what I call the "Self-Righteous Religious White Right". Each of those words are significant to me.
for more; brwshow.com

by: butchragland

10-08-2009 @ 6:31pm

I see nothing worse for Christianity than what I call the "Self-Righteous Religious White Right". Each of those words are significant to me.
for more; brwshow.com

by: seanbaines

10-08-2009 @ 7:10pm

it should be nonprofit. Question : When you see an accident and there is a injured person, do you ask " are you legal or illegal.?If this person is illegal, you just him/her die.? No you do not. You take him to a hospital and the "payment" is paid by us. the taxpayer. Why not give them basic health care and let the pay a decent healthcare premium so some of it is paid for. These illegals are not going away so we have to deal with them as they do the jobs nobody wants to do. Right. Does the word "Christian fit in here some where.?

by: seanbaines

10-08-2009 @ 7:10pm

it should be nonprofit. Question : When you see an accident and there is a injured person, do you ask " are you legal or illegal.?If this person is illegal, you just him/her die.? No you do not. You take him to a hospital and the "payment" is paid by us. the taxpayer. Why not give them basic health care and let the pay a decent healthcare premium so some of it is paid for. These illegals are not going away so we have to deal with them as they do the jobs nobody wants to do. Right. Does the word "Christian fit in here some where.?

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 7:10pm

I'd like to think that if we fix what's wrong, and fix it in a responsible manner, then there would be enough funding in our budgets to care for the needy.
Who "deserves" medical care doesn't make any sense to me. Who are the "people like me?" We should all try to care for ourselves and our neighbors. I make sacrifices in other areas in order to pay my insurance premiums, and I'm always willing to help my neighbors - but there is a difference between being helpful and giving things away. "Giving it away" is not good stewardship.

by: DDB61

10-08-2009 @ 7:10pm

I'd like to think that if we fix what's wrong, and fix it in a responsible manner, then there would be enough funding in our budgets to care for the needy.
Who "deserves" medical care doesn't make any sense to me. Who are the "people like me?" We should all try to care for ourselves and our neighbors. I make sacrifices in other areas in order to pay my insurance premiums, and I'm always willing to help my neighbors - but there is a difference between being helpful and giving things away. "Giving it away" is not good stewardship.

by: brianregrut

10-08-2009 @ 7:21pm

1. "Health, not sickness, is the will of God." And then Adam and Eve walked out of the will of God and we're stuck with a world filled with sickness, and looking at Jesus' example isn't very promising. He didn't heal most of the sick in which he came in contact. He proved that he could heal remotely but only healed a few. That's not exactly justification for universal health insurance.

2. "United we stand, divided we fall." What is affordable coverage? Who determines affordability? There will always be a divide between rich and poor on everything including food, clothing, shelter, health care. This division has always been with us, but we have not divided. The division will likely come when the minority are paying taxes to provide services to the majority, and they decide enough is enough.

3. "Patients not profits." Profits do not go up when an insurance company denies coverage because of pre-existing conditions. If it denies coverage it does not collect premiums and therefore it does not increase its profits. It does not increase its profits when it excludes certain ailments or has confusing fine print. An insurance company assesses risk and places a cost on that risk. Exclusions and fine print are part of the contract that assigns a cost to the risks inherent in the contract. Profit is what is left over after a company subtracts costs (payments for services as defined by the contracts it writes) from income collected (premiums for the contracted services). The companies are not charities and must adhere to the terms of the contracts. Want fewer profits? Increase competition. A start would be to allow insurance companies to compete without constraints of state mandates, and separate insurance from employment.

4. "Life and liberty must both be protected." Absolutely. We, as Christians, should be in the forefront of the fight to restore the values that celebrated two parent households, personal responsibility, and the joy of labor. WE should also ensure that health care workers, including pharmacists should not be compelled to provide products or perform services that run counter to their personal beliefs. That can only happen if the government is removed as a health care payer, because so long as the government is doling out the money, there will be political pressure to control the care givers.

5. "For the next generation, health-care reform should be based on firm financial foundations." Let's start with reforming Medicare, getting rid of co-pays that mask the true cost of care, rewarding those with healthy lifestyles, and providing a safety net for the chronically sick and those with unexpected catastrophic illnesses.

Unfortunately none of the health care reform bills circulating on Capitol Hill are anywhere close to addressing these issues.

by: brianregrut

10-08-2009 @ 7:21pm

1. "Health, not sickness, is the will of God." And then Adam and Eve walked out of the will of God and we're stuck with a world filled with sickness, and looking at Jesus' example isn't very promising. He didn't heal most of the sick in which he came in contact. He proved that he could heal remotely but only healed a few. That's not exactly justification for universal health insurance.

2. "United we stand, divided we fall." What is affordable coverage? Who determines affordability? There will always be a divide between rich and poor on everything including food, clothing, shelter, health care. This division has always been with us, but we have not divided. The division will likely come when the minority are paying taxes to provide services to the majority, and they decide enough is enough.

3. "Patients not profits." Profits do not go up when an insurance company denies coverage because of pre-existing conditions. If it denies coverage it does not collect premiums and therefore it does not increase its profits. It does not increase its profits when it excludes certain ailments or has confusing fine print. An insurance company assesses risk and places a cost on that risk. Exclusions and fine print are part of the contract that assigns a cost to the risks inherent in the contract. Profit is what is left over after a company subtracts costs (payments for services as defined by the contracts it writes) from income collected (premiums for the contracted services). The companies are not charities and must adhere to the terms of the contracts. Want fewer profits? Increase competition. A start would be to allow insurance companies to compete without constraints of state mandates, and separate insurance from employment.

4. "Life and liberty must both be protected." Absolutely. We, as Christians, should be in the forefront of the fight to restore the values that celebrated two parent households, personal responsibility, and the joy of labor. WE should also ensure that health care workers, including pharmacists should not be compelled to provide products or perform services that run counter to their personal beliefs. That can only happen if the government is removed as a health care payer, because so long as the government is doling out the money, there will be political pressure to control the care givers.

5. "For the next generation, health-care reform should be based on firm financial foundations." Let's start with reforming Medicare, getting rid of co-pays that mask the true cost of care, rewarding those with healthy lifestyles, and providing a safety net for the chronically sick and those with unexpected catastrophic illnesses.

Unfortunately none of the health care reform bills circulating on Capitol Hill are anywhere close to addressing these issues.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 8:24pm

"Health, not sickness, is the will of God." And then Adam and Eve walked out of the will of God and we're stuck with a world filled with sickness, and looking at Jesus' example isn't very promising."

Apparently you do not believe there to be a salvation in Jesus that overcomes the curse of sin and death. It is probably hard to get very far on this blog towards identifying a common, transcendent moral system on which to evaluate health reform with a huge difference on that issue.

Please clarify.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 8:24pm

"Health, not sickness, is the will of God." And then Adam and Eve walked out of the will of God and we're stuck with a world filled with sickness, and looking at Jesus' example isn't very promising."

Apparently you do not believe there to be a salvation in Jesus that overcomes the curse of sin and death. It is probably hard to get very far on this blog towards identifying a common, transcendent moral system on which to evaluate health reform with a huge difference on that issue.

Please clarify.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 8:37pm

I absolutely agree. And I would not ever refer to persons as illegals. It is like addressing people who speed as illegals.

I think our failure to govern immigration is atrocious. But that is our government. And it is not fixed by hammering on people who are told by our society, "Come but pretend you don't exist. Work so we can't see you. And don't you dare get in an accident or spill a cup of coffee."

Immigration is dealt with in comprehensive immigration reform. This is health reform and our consideration of how to respond to the man laying on the side of the road who looks different than us.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-08-2009 @ 8:37pm

I absolutely agree. And I would not ever refer to persons as illegals. It is like addressing people who speed as illegals.

I think our failure to govern immigration is atrocious. But that is our government. And it is not fixed by hammering on people who are told by our society, "Come but pretend you don't exist. Work so we can't see you. And don't you dare get in an accident or spill a cup of coffee."

Immigration is dealt with in comprehensive immigration reform. This is health reform and our consideration of how to respond to the man laying on the side of the road who looks different than us.

by: Kevin Wayne

10-08-2009 @ 8:57pm

Jim Wallis & Co: Sorry to burst your bubble. As Business Week has pointed out, the Insurance Companies have already won:

www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

I am in agreement that the profit motive should be totally taken out of Health Care. It is the only way we will remove the problem of Health Insurance Executives shunting the most sick into Medicare, thereby taxing the system & causing costs to go up. That doesn't even address the some $300,000,000,000 per year that is estimated in fraudulent insurance payments that greedy Insurance Agents bilk Medicare for. Arguments like "invest money in new pacemaker technology" are a schill. That's what our universities & military industrial complex are for. Capitalism reduces things and relationships to commodities. I am not a commodity and neither is my health, nor the health of those I care about. If the Military can do their whole health-care system without a competitive edge, so can the rest of society.

I can't believe people are still beating the drum beat the Obama plan. I just heard Ralph Nader speak Sunday & he thinks it's a done deal. Single Payer is the only true Reform.

www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

For those of you who get ESA's Prism Epistle, here are a couple of the links that were provided:

How American Health Care Killed My Father
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200909/hea...

Testimony of Wendell Potter before the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/pott...

From: http://www.esa-online.org/Article.asp?RecordKey...

by: Kevin Wayne

10-08-2009 @ 8:57pm

Jim Wallis & Co: Sorry to burst your bubble. As Business Week has pointed out, the Insurance Companies have already won:

www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

I am in agreement that the profit motive should be totally taken out of Health Care. It is the only way we will remove the problem of Health Insurance Executives shunting the most sick into Medicare, thereby taxing the system & causing costs to go up. That doesn't even address the some $300,000,000,000 per year that is estimated in fraudulent insurance payments that greedy Insurance Agents bilk Medicare for. Arguments like "invest money in new pacemaker technology" are a schill. That's what our universities & military industrial complex are for. Capitalism reduces things and relationships to commodities. I am not a commodity and neither is my health, nor the health of those I care about. If the Military can do their whole health-care system without a competitive edge, so can the rest of society.

I can't believe people are still beating the drum beat the Obama plan. I just heard Ralph Nader speak Sunday & he thinks it's a done deal. Single Payer is the only true Reform.

www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php

For those of you who get ESA's Prism Epistle, here are a couple of the links that were provided:

How American Health Care Killed My Father
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200909/hea...

Testimony of Wendell Potter before the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/pott...

From: http://www.esa-online.org/Article.asp?RecordKey...

by: rhirschler

10-08-2009 @ 9:10pm

As a Christian physician who has worked during the past 40 years in several rural mission hospitals on three contenents, I have seen and learned much about how health affects people and their actions affect health. Unfortunately the USA has confused health care with sickness care. At my 40th class reunion this year at NE U Med School I learned that they have finally made a position for Dean of Public Health in their school. Most people in America do not even know one public health doctor, and unfortunately our system separates the public health approach from the curative approach. We always need preventive health measures and sometimes the curative approach. Also, unfortunately, we reimburse the curative activities much higher than the preventive teaching and activities. Should we have people who do the things like smoking and other proven health destroying activities pay more to cover the extra expense in curative care?
In another area, we hear some Christians say we do not want the government to have a say in our health care. At the same time they support our government in fighting wars in other peoples countries so that our government can tell them what to do. I find real inconsistancies in their logic. It seems like spending some tax money to support people seeking health care in this country is a much more Christian approach than to spend our taxes on milatary hardware and war on the people we called our friends 20 years ago.
Sincerely in Christ,
Richard Hirschler MD

by: rhirschler

10-08-2009 @ 9:10pm

As a Christian physician who has worked during the past 40 years in several rural mission hospitals on three contenents, I have seen and learned much about how health affects people and their actions affect health. Unfortunately the USA has confused health care with sickness care. At my 40th class reunion this year at NE U Med School I learned that they have finally made a position for Dean of Public Health in their school. Most people in America do not even know one public health doctor, and unfortunately our system separates the public health approach from the curative approach. We always need preventive health measures and sometimes the curative approach. Also, unfortunately, we reimburse the curative activities much higher than the preventive teaching and activities. Should we have people who do the things like smoking and other proven health destroying activities pay more to cover the extra expense in curative care?
In another area, we hear some Christians say we do not want the government to have a say in our health care. At the same time they support our government in fighting wars in other peoples countries so that our government can tell them what to do. I find real inconsistancies in their logic. It seems like spending some tax money to support people seeking health care in this country is a much more Christian approach than to spend our taxes on milatary hardware and war on the people we called our friends 20 years ago.
Sincerely in Christ,
Richard Hirschler MD

by: revlindahiggins

10-08-2009 @ 9:23pm

Why should I have to trade my right to my body as a woman for health care keep the abortion fights out so progressive women can work with you

by: revlindahiggins

10-08-2009 @ 9:23pm

Why should I have to trade my right to my body as a woman for health care keep the abortion fights out so progressive women can work with you

by: susanl224

10-08-2009 @ 9:30pm

Health care is a right, not a privilege.

by: susanl224

10-08-2009 @ 9:30pm

Health care is a right, not a privilege.

by: carlcopas

10-08-2009 @ 9:46pm

"The message is again weakened by not being clear if he is wearing hat of public prophet or public advocate."

I'm not clear on why Wallis can't wear both hats simultaneously. For that matter, I'm not clear on why there are even two hats.

by: carlcopas

10-08-2009 @ 9:46pm

"The message is again weakened by not being clear if he is wearing hat of public prophet or public advocate."

I'm not clear on why Wallis can't wear both hats simultaneously. For that matter, I'm not clear on why there are even two hats.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-09-2009 @ 12:37am

By public advocate, I mean making a decision that a particular party, leader or agenda represents the best option for governance and then working day and night to advance such.

By public prophet, I mean one who attempts to represent God's word faithfully in spite of what that might do to one's well-beling.

Sometimes Wallis is cheerleading Obama--parroting the Whiehouse PR apparatus. Sometimes he speaks as Biblical prophet.

When one puts on the hat of Whitehouse Partisan--and on one's chest wear's title: Prophet of God it looks like one attempts to conflate the Whitehouse agenda with the Kingdom. This is the very kind of confusion he used to write cleary about as being a mistake.

by: letjusticerolldown

10-09-2009 @ 12:37am

By public advocate, I mean making a decision that a particular party, leader or agenda represents the best option for governance and then working day and night to advance such.

By public prophet, I mean one who attempts to represent God's word faithfully in spite of what that might do to one's well-beling.

Sometimes Wallis is cheerleading Obama--parroting the Whiehouse PR apparatus. Sometimes he speaks as Biblical prophet.

When one puts on the hat of Whitehouse Partisan--and on one's chest wear's title: Prophet of God it looks like one attempts to conflate the Whitehouse agenda with the Kingdom. This is the very kind of confusion he used to write cleary about as being a mistake.

by: mstree

10-09-2009 @ 2:25am

I pay for my own insurance also and am very satisfied. These cliches ("patients not profits" is one among many) are worn and tired, and are mere rhetorical strategies used to portray protestors as uncaring.

by: mstree

10-09-2009 @ 2:25am

I pay for my own insurance also and am very satisfied. These cliches ("patients not profits" is one among many) are worn and tired, and are mere rhetorical strategies used to portray protestors as uncaring.

by: mstree

10-09-2009 @ 2:27am

Give away health care? Are you serious or is that some sort of typo? DDB did not suggest he's the only one who deserves it, but I hope to God was don't just "give away" health care.

by: mstree

10-09-2009 @ 2:27am

Give away health care? Are you serious or is that some sort of typo? DDB did not suggest he's the only one who deserves it, but I hope to God was don't just "give away" health care.