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Scripture and History Remind Us That We Are All Immigrants

Nearly five years ago my friends, Hector and Gabby and their five kids, entered the U.S. legally from Mexico in order to join the pastoral staff at my church, Willow Creek. They have built a vibrant ministry with Spanish speaking members of Willow. One of their challenges is to discern the best way to serve the hundreds of undocumented immigrants in our congregation. These are wonderful people working hard to provide a better life for their families, but often living in fear on the margins of society. What does it mean to serve them as Jesus would?

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We have concluded that part of serving them is to advocate for Comprehensive Immigration Reform. The complexity of the immigration situation in the U.S. is unfolding "up close and personal" for us, as Hector and Gabby join the ranks of the uncertain, their visa renewal having been inexplicably denied and their appeal pending. Following are excerpts from a statement submitted by Lynne and her husband Bill to the Senate Hearing on Immigration Reform. Click here to read the full testimony.

I, Lynne Hybels, would like to submit this testimony on behalf of myself and my husband, Bill Hybels ... Even though the issues of immigration can often be viewed as a political, economic, or security issue, our perspective on immigration has been formed at the community level as local church leaders. In this capacity, we are continually confronted with immigration, not necessarily as a policy issue but as a personal issue in which we witness the human consequences of a broken immigration system every day.

Our faith informs us that we were all strangers and aliens once, separated from God. Because God was willing to include us in his redemptive plan, we "are no longer strangers and aliens, but [we] are fellow citizens" (Ephesians 2:18-19a). As Christians, we accept the biblical perspective that we are all sojourners on this earth, commanded to steward it while we await the full arrival of God's eternal kingdom. Recognizing that we are all sojourners on this land, no matter what our legal status, compels us to extend solidarity to all. This deep sense of solidarity with others is a foundational truth of our country. We are a nation with historical roots grounded in immigration: out of necessity, many of our ancestors came to this country, and then found a home here.

This perspective can help inform our current perspectives on immigration. Remembering our own history as immigrants, we must take God seriously when, in Scripture, he repeatedly calls on his people to remember their past as sojourners and to treat the aliens among them accordingly. "The strangers who sojourn with you shall be to you as the natives among you, and you shall love them as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt" (Leviticus 19:33-34). Throughout the Old Testament, God repeats the command to love the alien just as he himself does (Deuteronomy 10:18), and makes clear his desire for us to emulate his special concern for the foreign-born who, along with orphans and widows, are recognized as particularly vulnerable (Psalm 146:9, Zechariah 7:10).

In the New Testament, Jesus helped define our neighbors for us in the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37). He tells of an individual who encounters and serves a migrant, presumably of a different culture, in need -- and he commands us to "go and do likewise." Jesus also tells his followers to welcome the stranger (Matthew 25:35) when he says, "what you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto me" (Matthew 25:40). These biblical principles can help guide us as we consider how to treat immigrants today, both on a personal and societal level.

Throughout the history of the United States, immigration has brought out our best hopes and worst fears. While we tend to romanticize immigration of an earlier era, immigrants today are immigrating for the same reasons our ancestors came to the United States: provision and protection for their families, religious freedom, and hope for a better future. George Washington, in the earliest days of our country, wanted to create a welcoming society "open to receive not only the opulent and respectable stranger, but the oppressed and persecuted of all nations and religions." However, immigration has also always caused fear among others, even as far back as the pre-colonial era: Benjamin Franklin, for example, had concerns about Germans assimilating in Pennsylvania, a colony founded by the English, and doubted whether the Germans could adopt the English's language and customs.

Our history teaches us that immigrants who were once feared and thought to be unable to assimilate are now embraced as Americans with deep roots in this country. Thus, we must not be driven by a spirit of fear that produces a hardness of heart, but rather we must extend grace and a welcoming spirit to the immigrants who live in our communities. Although it may be uncomfortable at first, we need to get to know our new immigrant neighbors; as we do so, we find how eager they are to become Americans and contribute to our society. We can be sure that in these interactions, fears and differences will fade, and each person will be recognized as "endowed by their Creator" with a dignity that transcends earthly circumstance.

Click here to read the full testimony.

Lynne Hybels is the advocate for global engagement at Willow Creek Community Church and author of Nice Girls Don't Change the World.

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by: GlenPeterson

10-09-2009 @ 12:13pm

idrandel,

The choices when migrating--among people that I know--feels something like stay in my country of origin and my kids will starve, we'll die a slow death or travel across an international border across the desert and face a good chance of death. Perceived or reality, it is the choice some people think they have. But, you are right, it is still a choice. Where people have no choice often is whether or not to cross legally or to get or remain documented once they are here. While the economy (more so before) has welcomed the workers, there is no path for work permits, temporary or permanent, or citizenship. That is what I meant by not having a choice. This conversation is working up a head of steam on my Facebook wall if you want to find me there.

by: joni2

07-26-2010 @ 6:43am

Lynn, let's say there is a good but poor christian in Chicagoland, and for some reason he came into your house without permission, even breaks your fence or door and take some advantage from your home. When you see him, will you call 911 or adopt him as your son based on Bible?

by: stevenskattebo

10-09-2009 @ 7:12pm

Faydine wrote: "I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian."

It is unchristian because Jesus said "Blessed are the poor," but the poor are not elegible for immigration documents (visas). This is a basic fact that is ignored in the mainstream press: our immigration laws discriminate against the poor.

by: jeffschuh

03-15-2010 @ 7:15pm

KNA920, not sure what that stands for? I disclosed my full name...
My favorite 2 lines. "they pay taxes" and "Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup."

No offense, you really need to do your homework. Head out to California or any border town, and say those things. And please don't quote the NY times or the ITIN numbers. I mean these are completely liberal biased organizations. Your idea that there is "no line to stand in" is ridiculous. Yes they may be denied numerous times and may never get in our great country, but does that give them the right to cross over illegally? Why don't we just tear down our border and forget all sovereignty whatsoever? See this idea you have about the fact that these groups don't call for amnesty is wrong. All these progressive Christian churches know that is the only way. Numerous groups such as CCDA, Red Letter Christians, and Jim Wallis' pals call for it over and over again. Not eligible for welfare? Seriously? How many have fake docs that have applied for it and recieved it? All I'm asking for is that they go back to their country of origin and go thru the normal process, so the folks that have done that, have their fair chance as well to come here. Then they can come back, especially if they have kids here or families after that wait. Do you honestly believe illegal aliens that work for cash on numerous jobs through out the Southwest pay taxes? Come on! please use common sense. Do know how many hospitals are overwhelmed by the free care they are giving?

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 8:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: Cheryl_H

02-10-2010 @ 5:22pm

First - to stevenskattebo - not cool to take scripture out of context. The United States is by far the biggest GIVER to the poor around the world than any other nation on earth - bar none. We discriminate against the poor? - what an asinine statement.

Why is the current immigration system refered to as 'broken'? If the main argument to its being 'broken' is due to family separation, who's really responsible for the separation? Doubtless there should be reforms to any imperfect system, but the current laws are aimed at limiting the annual number of legal immigrants into the United States - from many countries, not just Mexico. We also bring in thousands of persecuted immigrants - regardless of wealth.

Logic dictates that our current social support & health care emergency room systems cannot handle every person in the world who wants to come to the U.S. If the current law (LAW) separates familes, then the illegal person should be the one responsible for having kids in an illegal situation in the first place - not our country.

Should we welcome strangers and immigrants? Of course. But should we encourage illegal immigration - self-justified with an opinion that the law is 'broken'... I don't think so. Those 'true'legal immigrants who may have worked for 10 or more years in this country before becoming citizens swear an OATH - to become 'law-abiding' citizens who defend our Constitution. Illegal immigration mocks that process.

I'm a devoted Christ-follower who has served in the military, as has much of my family, defending our Constitution and the rights and laws as governed by the people - for which so many before have died. Immigration reform - driven by our legal processes - would be welcome, and its great that so many are voicing their opinions on the subject. But reform is not a quick, cut-and-dry process - being complicated with many issues ... terrorism in our post 9-11 world for one.

Acceptance, and therefore encouragement of law-breaking is not acceptable - even if the law is deemed to be 'broken' by some. Otherwise, our borders would not be guarded by thousands serving to enforce our laws. But if the illegal person manages to get by our Border Patrol officers, they can always find a warm reception at many churches it seems, including Willow Creek.

by: stevenskattebo

10-09-2009 @ 7:12pm

Faydine wrote: "I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian."

It is unchristian because Jesus said "Blessed are the poor," but the poor are not elegible for immigration documents (visas). This is a basic fact that is ignored in the mainstream press: our immigration laws discriminate against the poor.

by: NMRod

10-09-2009 @ 10:11pm

My question is this:

Do you love immigrants?

If so, how are you showing your love for them?

by: jeffschuh

03-19-2010 @ 4:04pm

From the Liberal L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A.. are Spanish speaking.
10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

by: jeffschuh

02-22-2010 @ 6:15pm

This Conversation is not about Hector and Gabby. They are here legally. We are not talking about "undocumented workers" either. Thats politically correct code for "Illegal Aliens." See Lynn, your problem is the millions of people waiting in line legally to come to this great country, and they are forced to wait in line up to 7 years to come here and their wait is longer the more Mexicans run across the border to live here. The bible states numerous times obey the law of your land. What these illegals are doing is also a strain on the economic system. They show up at the hospital for free health care, have babies here, live of welfare, and they don't pay taxes. I have friends waiting to get this in country the honorable way and will contribute and pay their fair share. How long should they wait Mrs. Hybels? How long seriously? Is it wrong for me to say to an Illegal that they should go back home and wait in line like everyone else? You take the 25th chapter of Matthew completely out of context. What version of Bible are you reading? The progressive Christianity you are teaching is not bible based.

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 10:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: NMRod

10-09-2009 @ 10:11pm

My question is this:

Do you love immigrants?

If so, how are you showing your love for them?

by: genie

10-11-2009 @ 11:47am

What a beautiful testimony and reminder to us of our own heritage. Most of us take great pride in the determination and courage of our forebearers who made it to this country to escape oppression, poverty and religious persecution. Some of them hid out on ships. We respect and honor them for their courage and perseverence. Yet, the hatred and mistrust spewed on our airwaves against undocumented aliens must break God's heart. Our church has also experiences unusual delays and barriers to extention of visas and to even getting legal documents, even though we went through the proper channels. Sometimes we have had to ask for help from our Congressmen and women to aid the process. Many don't know where to turn to for help. May God forgive us for the blinders we have as we neglect the welfare of these who so desperately want to be a part of our great nation. Thank you, Lynne, for the wise words.

by: Cheryl_H

02-10-2010 @ 5:22pm

First - to stevenskattebo - not cool to take scripture out of context. The United States is by far the biggest GIVER to the poor around the world than any other nation on earth - bar none. We discriminate against the poor? - what an asinine statement.

Why is the current immigration system refered to as 'broken'? If the main argument to its being 'broken' is due to family separation, who's really responsible for the separation? Doubtless there should be reforms to any imperfect system, but the current laws are aimed at limiting the annual number of legal immigrants into the United States - from many countries, not just Mexico. We also bring in thousands of persecuted immigrants - regardless of wealth.

Logic dictates that our current social support & health care emergency room systems cannot handle every person in the world who wants to come to the U.S. If the current law (LAW) separates familes, then the illegal person should be the one responsible for having kids in an illegal situation in the first place - not our country.

Should we welcome strangers and immigrants? Of course. But should we encourage illegal immigration - self-justified with an opinion that the law is 'broken'... I don't think so. Those 'true'legal immigrants who may have worked for 10 or more years in this country before becoming citizens swear an OATH - to become 'law-abiding' citizens who defend our Constitution. Illegal immigration mocks that process.

I'm a devoted Christ-follower who has served in the military, as has much of my family, defending our Constitution and the rights and laws as governed by the people - for which so many before have died. Immigration reform - driven by our legal processes - would be welcome, and its great that so many are voicing their opinions on the subject. But reform is not a quick, cut-and-dry process - being complicated with many issues ... terrorism in our post 9-11 world for one.

Acceptance, and therefore encouragement of law-breaking is not acceptable - even if the law is deemed to be 'broken' by some. Otherwise, our borders would not be guarded by thousands serving to enforce our laws. But if the illegal person manages to get by our Border Patrol officers, they can always find a warm reception at many churches it seems, including Willow Creek.

by: genie

10-11-2009 @ 11:47am

What a beautiful testimony and reminder to us of our own heritage. Most of us take great pride in the determination and courage of our forebearers who made it to this country to escape oppression, poverty and religious persecution. Some of them hid out on ships. We respect and honor them for their courage and perseverence. Yet, the hatred and mistrust spewed on our airwaves against undocumented aliens must break God's heart. Our church has also experiences unusual delays and barriers to extention of visas and to even getting legal documents, even though we went through the proper channels. Sometimes we have had to ask for help from our Congressmen and women to aid the process. Many don't know where to turn to for help. May God forgive us for the blinders we have as we neglect the welfare of these who so desperately want to be a part of our great nation. Thank you, Lynne, for the wise words.

by: jeffschuh

02-22-2010 @ 6:15pm

This Conversation is not about Hector and Gabby. They are here legally. We are not talking about "undocumented workers" either. Thats politically correct code for "Illegal Aliens." See Lynn, your problem is the millions of people waiting in line legally to come to this great country, and they are forced to wait in line up to 7 years to come here and their wait is longer the more Mexicans run across the border to live here. The bible states numerous times obey the law of your land. What these illegals are doing is also a strain on the economic system. They show up at the hospital for free health care, have babies here, live of welfare, and they don't pay taxes. I have friends waiting to get this in country the honorable way and will contribute and pay their fair share. How long should they wait Mrs. Hybels? How long seriously? Is it wrong for me to say to an Illegal that they should go back home and wait in line like everyone else? You take the 25th chapter of Matthew completely out of context. What version of Bible are you reading? The progressive Christianity you are teaching is not bible based.

by: jeffschuh

03-15-2010 @ 7:15pm

KNA920, not sure what that stands for? I disclosed my full name...
My favorite 2 lines. "they pay taxes" and "Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup."

No offense, you really need to do your homework. Head out to California or any border town, and say those things. And please don't quote the NY times or the ITIN numbers. I mean these are completely liberal biased organizations. Your idea that there is "no line to stand in" is ridiculous. Yes they may be denied numerous times and may never get in our great country, but does that give them the right to cross over illegally? Why don't we just tear down our border and forget all sovereignty whatsoever? See this idea you have about the fact that these groups don't call for amnesty is wrong. All these progressive Christian churches know that is the only way. Numerous groups such as CCDA, Red Letter Christians, and Jim Wallis' pals call for it over and over again. Not eligible for welfare? Seriously? How many have fake docs that have applied for it and recieved it? All I'm asking for is that they go back to their country of origin and go thru the normal process, so the folks that have done that, have their fair chance as well to come here. Then they can come back, especially if they have kids here or families after that wait. Do you honestly believe illegal aliens that work for cash on numerous jobs through out the Southwest pay taxes? Come on! please use common sense. Do know how many hospitals are overwhelmed by the free care they are giving?

by: 4Him4ever

07-08-2010 @ 7:41pm

Lynn, Sorry to disagree with your approach to allow Illegal Immigrants to enter into ANY country without honoring/respecting the laws and statutes created - regardless of how strained the laws are.

Scripturally, God Himself has 'requirements' for each one of us to come into His presence/be with him for eternity. Yes, he wants ALL to come - and He beautifully provided a way, but 'narrow is the way (matt 7:14)' - requirements.

More hurt and pain have come from letting illegal access to our country - I know, I have family and friends at the borders...

by: PiperJM

10-08-2009 @ 5:47pm

Thank you for sharing your personal journey with us and with the Senate. I am truly touched by the way you are living out your faith in the midst of a messy, broken immigration system and a world full of hateful rhetoric. So Inspiring!

by: jeffschuh

03-19-2010 @ 4:04pm

From the Liberal L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A.. are Spanish speaking.
10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 8:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: 4Him4ever

07-08-2010 @ 7:41pm

Lynn, Sorry to disagree with your approach to allow Illegal Immigrants to enter into ANY country without honoring/respecting the laws and statutes created - regardless of how strained the laws are.

Scripturally, God Himself has 'requirements' for each one of us to come into His presence/be with him for eternity. Yes, he wants ALL to come - and He beautifully provided a way, but 'narrow is the way (matt 7:14)' - requirements.

More hurt and pain have come from letting illegal access to our country - I know, I have family and friends at the borders...

by: Faydine

10-08-2009 @ 6:25pm

Sorry, but I disagree with this posting. I don't think that loving people and treating them via a legal system are opposed. I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian. It is exactly how I would expect to be treated in any other country on earth, and even heaven requires membership for entry.

Nothing in this article compels me to think differently.

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 10:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: PiperJM

10-08-2009 @ 5:47pm

Thank you for sharing your personal journey with us and with the Senate. I am truly touched by the way you are living out your faith in the midst of a messy, broken immigration system and a world full of hateful rhetoric. So Inspiring!

by: GlenPeterson

10-08-2009 @ 9:45pm

Thank you to Lynn Hybels and the other followers of Jesus who testified before the Senate Committee today on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice. When any of us speak up for the stranger we do so as to Jesus. I pray for a day when a broken immigration system does not create or even allow for a class of people seen as less than human or with fewer rights that all of us. May God bless the coming push for comprehensive immigration reform and all those who speak for it.

by: Faydine

10-08-2009 @ 6:25pm

Sorry, but I disagree with this posting. I don't think that loving people and treating them via a legal system are opposed. I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian. It is exactly how I would expect to be treated in any other country on earth, and even heaven requires membership for entry.

Nothing in this article compels me to think differently.

by: ldbrandel

10-09-2009 @ 2:32am

I missed your point: "on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice." Are you stating that these undocumented people came to the US by force? Say at gunpoint or ? While it may be true that they came here because of economic reasons there still was the voluntary choice to cross the border.

Furthermore, who is to say that God's hand wasn't in Hector and Gabby's visa denial? God may have a different place for them to preach the Word. After all, Paul didn't make it to every place he wanted to preach the word.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:48am

Would you deny the power and force of economic forces beyond these peoples' control-- that is what she is referring to.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:52am

Thank you, Ms. Hybles, for this post.

by: GlenPeterson

10-08-2009 @ 9:45pm

Thank you to Lynn Hybels and the other followers of Jesus who testified before the Senate Committee today on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice. When any of us speak up for the stranger we do so as to Jesus. I pray for a day when a broken immigration system does not create or even allow for a class of people seen as less than human or with fewer rights that all of us. May God bless the coming push for comprehensive immigration reform and all those who speak for it.

by: GlenPeterson

10-09-2009 @ 12:13pm

idrandel,

The choices when migrating--among people that I know--feels something like stay in my country of origin and my kids will starve, we'll die a slow death or travel across an international border across the desert and face a good chance of death. Perceived or reality, it is the choice some people think they have. But, you are right, it is still a choice. Where people have no choice often is whether or not to cross legally or to get or remain documented once they are here. While the economy (more so before) has welcomed the workers, there is no path for work permits, temporary or permanent, or citizenship. That is what I meant by not having a choice. This conversation is working up a head of steam on my Facebook wall if you want to find me there.

by: joni2

07-26-2010 @ 6:43am

Lynn, let's say there is a good but poor christian in Chicagoland, and for some reason he came into your house without permission, even breaks your fence or door and take some advantage from your home. When you see him, will you call 911 or adopt him as your son based on Bible?

by: ldbrandel

10-09-2009 @ 2:32am

I missed your point: "on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice." Are you stating that these undocumented people came to the US by force? Say at gunpoint or ? While it may be true that they came here because of economic reasons there still was the voluntary choice to cross the border.

Furthermore, who is to say that God's hand wasn't in Hector and Gabby's visa denial? God may have a different place for them to preach the Word. After all, Paul didn't make it to every place he wanted to preach the word.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:48am

Would you deny the power and force of economic forces beyond these peoples' control-- that is what she is referring to.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:52am

Thank you, Ms. Hybles, for this post.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: PiperJM

10-08-2009 @ 5:47pm

Thank you for sharing your personal journey with us and with the Senate. I am truly touched by the way you are living out your faith in the midst of a messy, broken immigration system and a world full of hateful rhetoric. So Inspiring!

by: PiperJM

10-08-2009 @ 5:47pm

Thank you for sharing your personal journey with us and with the Senate. I am truly touched by the way you are living out your faith in the midst of a messy, broken immigration system and a world full of hateful rhetoric. So Inspiring!

by: Faydine

10-08-2009 @ 6:25pm

Sorry, but I disagree with this posting. I don't think that loving people and treating them via a legal system are opposed. I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian. It is exactly how I would expect to be treated in any other country on earth, and even heaven requires membership for entry.

Nothing in this article compels me to think differently.

by: Faydine

10-08-2009 @ 6:25pm

Sorry, but I disagree with this posting. I don't think that loving people and treating them via a legal system are opposed. I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian. It is exactly how I would expect to be treated in any other country on earth, and even heaven requires membership for entry.

Nothing in this article compels me to think differently.

by: GlenPeterson

10-08-2009 @ 9:45pm

Thank you to Lynn Hybels and the other followers of Jesus who testified before the Senate Committee today on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice. When any of us speak up for the stranger we do so as to Jesus. I pray for a day when a broken immigration system does not create or even allow for a class of people seen as less than human or with fewer rights that all of us. May God bless the coming push for comprehensive immigration reform and all those who speak for it.

by: GlenPeterson

10-08-2009 @ 9:45pm

Thank you to Lynn Hybels and the other followers of Jesus who testified before the Senate Committee today on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice. When any of us speak up for the stranger we do so as to Jesus. I pray for a day when a broken immigration system does not create or even allow for a class of people seen as less than human or with fewer rights that all of us. May God bless the coming push for comprehensive immigration reform and all those who speak for it.

by: ldbrandel

10-09-2009 @ 2:32am

I missed your point: "on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice." Are you stating that these undocumented people came to the US by force? Say at gunpoint or ? While it may be true that they came here because of economic reasons there still was the voluntary choice to cross the border.

Furthermore, who is to say that God's hand wasn't in Hector and Gabby's visa denial? God may have a different place for them to preach the Word. After all, Paul didn't make it to every place he wanted to preach the word.

by: ldbrandel

10-09-2009 @ 2:32am

I missed your point: "on behalf of those people who live in our country without documents--not by any choice of their own, but because they have no choice." Are you stating that these undocumented people came to the US by force? Say at gunpoint or ? While it may be true that they came here because of economic reasons there still was the voluntary choice to cross the border.

Furthermore, who is to say that God's hand wasn't in Hector and Gabby's visa denial? God may have a different place for them to preach the Word. After all, Paul didn't make it to every place he wanted to preach the word.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:48am

Would you deny the power and force of economic forces beyond these peoples' control-- that is what she is referring to.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:48am

Would you deny the power and force of economic forces beyond these peoples' control-- that is what she is referring to.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:52am

Thank you, Ms. Hybles, for this post.

by: Mennoman

10-09-2009 @ 7:52am

Thank you, Ms. Hybles, for this post.

by: GlenPeterson

10-09-2009 @ 12:13pm

idrandel,

The choices when migrating--among people that I know--feels something like stay in my country of origin and my kids will starve, we'll die a slow death or travel across an international border across the desert and face a good chance of death. Perceived or reality, it is the choice some people think they have. But, you are right, it is still a choice. Where people have no choice often is whether or not to cross legally or to get or remain documented once they are here. While the economy (more so before) has welcomed the workers, there is no path for work permits, temporary or permanent, or citizenship. That is what I meant by not having a choice. This conversation is working up a head of steam on my Facebook wall if you want to find me there.

by: GlenPeterson

10-09-2009 @ 12:13pm

idrandel,

The choices when migrating--among people that I know--feels something like stay in my country of origin and my kids will starve, we'll die a slow death or travel across an international border across the desert and face a good chance of death. Perceived or reality, it is the choice some people think they have. But, you are right, it is still a choice. Where people have no choice often is whether or not to cross legally or to get or remain documented once they are here. While the economy (more so before) has welcomed the workers, there is no path for work permits, temporary or permanent, or citizenship. That is what I meant by not having a choice. This conversation is working up a head of steam on my Facebook wall if you want to find me there.

by: stevenskattebo

10-09-2009 @ 7:12pm

Faydine wrote: "I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian."

It is unchristian because Jesus said "Blessed are the poor," but the poor are not elegible for immigration documents (visas). This is a basic fact that is ignored in the mainstream press: our immigration laws discriminate against the poor.

by: stevenskattebo

10-09-2009 @ 7:12pm

Faydine wrote: "I don't see how requiring documentation is unloving or unchristian."

It is unchristian because Jesus said "Blessed are the poor," but the poor are not elegible for immigration documents (visas). This is a basic fact that is ignored in the mainstream press: our immigration laws discriminate against the poor.

by: NMRod

10-09-2009 @ 10:11pm

My question is this:

Do you love immigrants?

If so, how are you showing your love for them?

by: NMRod

10-09-2009 @ 10:11pm

My question is this:

Do you love immigrants?

If so, how are you showing your love for them?

by: genie

10-11-2009 @ 11:47am

What a beautiful testimony and reminder to us of our own heritage. Most of us take great pride in the determination and courage of our forebearers who made it to this country to escape oppression, poverty and religious persecution. Some of them hid out on ships. We respect and honor them for their courage and perseverence. Yet, the hatred and mistrust spewed on our airwaves against undocumented aliens must break God's heart. Our church has also experiences unusual delays and barriers to extention of visas and to even getting legal documents, even though we went through the proper channels. Sometimes we have had to ask for help from our Congressmen and women to aid the process. Many don't know where to turn to for help. May God forgive us for the blinders we have as we neglect the welfare of these who so desperately want to be a part of our great nation. Thank you, Lynne, for the wise words.

by: genie

10-11-2009 @ 11:47am

What a beautiful testimony and reminder to us of our own heritage. Most of us take great pride in the determination and courage of our forebearers who made it to this country to escape oppression, poverty and religious persecution. Some of them hid out on ships. We respect and honor them for their courage and perseverence. Yet, the hatred and mistrust spewed on our airwaves against undocumented aliens must break God's heart. Our church has also experiences unusual delays and barriers to extention of visas and to even getting legal documents, even though we went through the proper channels. Sometimes we have had to ask for help from our Congressmen and women to aid the process. Many don't know where to turn to for help. May God forgive us for the blinders we have as we neglect the welfare of these who so desperately want to be a part of our great nation. Thank you, Lynne, for the wise words.

by: Cheryl_H

02-10-2010 @ 5:22pm

First - to stevenskattebo - not cool to take scripture out of context. The United States is by far the biggest GIVER to the poor around the world than any other nation on earth - bar none. We discriminate against the poor? - what an asinine statement.

Why is the current immigration system refered to as 'broken'? If the main argument to its being 'broken' is due to family separation, who's really responsible for the separation? Doubtless there should be reforms to any imperfect system, but the current laws are aimed at limiting the annual number of legal immigrants into the United States - from many countries, not just Mexico. We also bring in thousands of persecuted immigrants - regardless of wealth.

Logic dictates that our current social support & health care emergency room systems cannot handle every person in the world who wants to come to the U.S. If the current law (LAW) separates familes, then the illegal person should be the one responsible for having kids in an illegal situation in the first place - not our country.

Should we welcome strangers and immigrants? Of course. But should we encourage illegal immigration - self-justified with an opinion that the law is 'broken'... I don't think so. Those 'true'legal immigrants who may have worked for 10 or more years in this country before becoming citizens swear an OATH - to become 'law-abiding' citizens who defend our Constitution. Illegal immigration mocks that process.

I'm a devoted Christ-follower who has served in the military, as has much of my family, defending our Constitution and the rights and laws as governed by the people - for which so many before have died. Immigration reform - driven by our legal processes - would be welcome, and its great that so many are voicing their opinions on the subject. But reform is not a quick, cut-and-dry process - being complicated with many issues ... terrorism in our post 9-11 world for one.

Acceptance, and therefore encouragement of law-breaking is not acceptable - even if the law is deemed to be 'broken' by some. Otherwise, our borders would not be guarded by thousands serving to enforce our laws. But if the illegal person manages to get by our Border Patrol officers, they can always find a warm reception at many churches it seems, including Willow Creek.

by: Cheryl_H

02-10-2010 @ 5:22pm

First - to stevenskattebo - not cool to take scripture out of context. The United States is by far the biggest GIVER to the poor around the world than any other nation on earth - bar none. We discriminate against the poor? - what an asinine statement.

Why is the current immigration system refered to as 'broken'? If the main argument to its being 'broken' is due to family separation, who's really responsible for the separation? Doubtless there should be reforms to any imperfect system, but the current laws are aimed at limiting the annual number of legal immigrants into the United States - from many countries, not just Mexico. We also bring in thousands of persecuted immigrants - regardless of wealth.

Logic dictates that our current social support & health care emergency room systems cannot handle every person in the world who wants to come to the U.S. If the current law (LAW) separates familes, then the illegal person should be the one responsible for having kids in an illegal situation in the first place - not our country.

Should we welcome strangers and immigrants? Of course. But should we encourage illegal immigration - self-justified with an opinion that the law is 'broken'... I don't think so. Those 'true'legal immigrants who may have worked for 10 or more years in this country before becoming citizens swear an OATH - to become 'law-abiding' citizens who defend our Constitution. Illegal immigration mocks that process.

I'm a devoted Christ-follower who has served in the military, as has much of my family, defending our Constitution and the rights and laws as governed by the people - for which so many before have died. Immigration reform - driven by our legal processes - would be welcome, and its great that so many are voicing their opinions on the subject. But reform is not a quick, cut-and-dry process - being complicated with many issues ... terrorism in our post 9-11 world for one.

Acceptance, and therefore encouragement of law-breaking is not acceptable - even if the law is deemed to be 'broken' by some. Otherwise, our borders would not be guarded by thousands serving to enforce our laws. But if the illegal person manages to get by our Border Patrol officers, they can always find a warm reception at many churches it seems, including Willow Creek.

by: jeffschuh

02-22-2010 @ 6:15pm

This Conversation is not about Hector and Gabby. They are here legally. We are not talking about "undocumented workers" either. Thats politically correct code for "Illegal Aliens." See Lynn, your problem is the millions of people waiting in line legally to come to this great country, and they are forced to wait in line up to 7 years to come here and their wait is longer the more Mexicans run across the border to live here. The bible states numerous times obey the law of your land. What these illegals are doing is also a strain on the economic system. They show up at the hospital for free health care, have babies here, live of welfare, and they don't pay taxes. I have friends waiting to get this in country the honorable way and will contribute and pay their fair share. How long should they wait Mrs. Hybels? How long seriously? Is it wrong for me to say to an Illegal that they should go back home and wait in line like everyone else? You take the 25th chapter of Matthew completely out of context. What version of Bible are you reading? The progressive Christianity you are teaching is not bible based.

by: jeffschuh

02-22-2010 @ 6:15pm

This Conversation is not about Hector and Gabby. They are here legally. We are not talking about "undocumented workers" either. Thats politically correct code for "Illegal Aliens." See Lynn, your problem is the millions of people waiting in line legally to come to this great country, and they are forced to wait in line up to 7 years to come here and their wait is longer the more Mexicans run across the border to live here. The bible states numerous times obey the law of your land. What these illegals are doing is also a strain on the economic system. They show up at the hospital for free health care, have babies here, live of welfare, and they don't pay taxes. I have friends waiting to get this in country the honorable way and will contribute and pay their fair share. How long should they wait Mrs. Hybels? How long seriously? Is it wrong for me to say to an Illegal that they should go back home and wait in line like everyone else? You take the 25th chapter of Matthew completely out of context. What version of Bible are you reading? The progressive Christianity you are teaching is not bible based.

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 8:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 8:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 10:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: kna920

02-25-2010 @ 10:27pm

Jeffschuh, I strongly disagree with what you posted. The Bible does state the we need to obey the laws of the land, which is why Willow Creek and other Christian groups for reform agree that this in NOT a call for amnesty- there will be fines and consequences to pay. As far as your view of who illegal immigrants are and what they are doing here, you are so skewed. They are NOT even eligible for welfare, so how do you surmise they live off it? They pay BILLIONS of dollars in to Social Security and can take NOTHING out. Many pay taxes- have you heard the statistics on ITIN numbers? Do you know what that is? This government that is supposed to be supressing undocumented immigration says, "Well, since you are here, we'll take your money, so here's a number to pay your taxes with." They pay taxes. As far as you believing that they "break numerous laws"...I don't know what that refers to. They have broken immigration laws, which, by the way, is only a civil (not criminal) offense in this country. What other crimes do you know they are committing? Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup. To make them all out to be criminals is simply errant.

See this article for more information on how much immigrants pay in to the system (in just one way our of many):

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05im...

I will tell you also that your idea of "getting in line" is also errant because for many, there simply is no line to stand in. If you are poor, you will be denied. It is that simple. My in-laws have been trying to come visit us in the US for years, and because they live in a house with a dirt floor, have no education, and no money in the bank, they will CONTINUE to be denied, year after year, because in our current system there is simply NO room for the poor.

If I were poor and could not feed my family, I don't know what line I wouldn't cross to survive. I don't know if you know this, but it's not easy to be an undocumented immigrant in this country. Actually, it's a walking nightmare.

I am a native-born US citizen with heritage from Europe, but I see it all around me and it breaks my heart. NO ONE would do this if there were any other way. NO one.

I can respect if you or any other person has a differing opinion on this issue, as it is very contentious and difficult. However, all of our conversations should be based on FACTS and the Christian compassion that we are called to live by.

by: jeffschuh

03-15-2010 @ 7:15pm

KNA920, not sure what that stands for? I disclosed my full name...
My favorite 2 lines. "they pay taxes" and "Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup."

No offense, you really need to do your homework. Head out to California or any border town, and say those things. And please don't quote the NY times or the ITIN numbers. I mean these are completely liberal biased organizations. Your idea that there is "no line to stand in" is ridiculous. Yes they may be denied numerous times and may never get in our great country, but does that give them the right to cross over illegally? Why don't we just tear down our border and forget all sovereignty whatsoever? See this idea you have about the fact that these groups don't call for amnesty is wrong. All these progressive Christian churches know that is the only way. Numerous groups such as CCDA, Red Letter Christians, and Jim Wallis' pals call for it over and over again. Not eligible for welfare? Seriously? How many have fake docs that have applied for it and recieved it? All I'm asking for is that they go back to their country of origin and go thru the normal process, so the folks that have done that, have their fair chance as well to come here. Then they can come back, especially if they have kids here or families after that wait. Do you honestly believe illegal aliens that work for cash on numerous jobs through out the Southwest pay taxes? Come on! please use common sense. Do know how many hospitals are overwhelmed by the free care they are giving?

by: jeffschuh

03-15-2010 @ 7:15pm

KNA920, not sure what that stands for? I disclosed my full name...
My favorite 2 lines. "they pay taxes" and "Sure, there are a certain percentage of undocumented people that come here and committ crimes, but it's probably about the same percentage of any other subgroup."

No offense, you really need to do your homework. Head out to California or any border town, and say those things. And please don't quote the NY times or the ITIN numbers. I mean these are completely liberal biased organizations. Your idea that there is "no line to stand in" is ridiculous. Yes they may be denied numerous times and may never get in our great country, but does that give them the right to cross over illegally? Why don't we just tear down our border and forget all sovereignty whatsoever? See this idea you have about the fact that these groups don't call for amnesty is wrong. All these progressive Christian churches know that is the only way. Numerous groups such as CCDA, Red Letter Christians, and Jim Wallis' pals call for it over and over again. Not eligible for welfare? Seriously? How many have fake docs that have applied for it and recieved it? All I'm asking for is that they go back to their country of origin and go thru the normal process, so the folks that have done that, have their fair chance as well to come here. Then they can come back, especially if they have kids here or families after that wait. Do you honestly believe illegal aliens that work for cash on numerous jobs through out the Southwest pay taxes? Come on! please use common sense. Do know how many hospitals are overwhelmed by the free care they are giving?

by: jeffschuh

03-19-2010 @ 4:04pm

From the Liberal L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A.. are Spanish speaking.
10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

by: jeffschuh

03-19-2010 @ 4:04pm

From the Liberal L. A. Times
1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8 Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A.. are Spanish speaking.
10.. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above facts were published in the Los Angeles Times)

by: 4Him4ever

07-08-2010 @ 7:41pm

Lynn, Sorry to disagree with your approach to allow Illegal Immigrants to enter into ANY country without honoring/respecting the laws and statutes created - regardless of how strained the laws are.

Scripturally, God Himself has 'requirements' for each one of us to come into His presence/be with him for eternity. Yes, he wants ALL to come - and He beautifully provided a way, but 'narrow is the way (matt 7:14)' - requirements.

More hurt and pain have come from letting illegal access to our country - I know, I have family and friends at the borders...

by: 4Him4ever

07-08-2010 @ 7:41pm

Lynn, Sorry to disagree with your approach to allow Illegal Immigrants to enter into ANY country without honoring/respecting the laws and statutes created - regardless of how strained the laws are.

Scripturally, God Himself has 'requirements' for each one of us to come into His presence/be with him for eternity. Yes, he wants ALL to come - and He beautifully provided a way, but 'narrow is the way (matt 7:14)' - requirements.

More hurt and pain have come from letting illegal access to our country - I know, I have family and friends at the borders...

by: joni2

07-26-2010 @ 6:43am

Lynn, let's say there is a good but poor christian in Chicagoland, and for some reason he came into your house without permission, even breaks your fence or door and take some advantage from your home. When you see him, will you call 911 or adopt him as your son based on Bible?

by: joni2

07-26-2010 @ 6:43am

Lynn, let's say there is a good but poor christian in Chicagoland, and for some reason he came into your house without permission, even breaks your fence or door and take some advantage from your home. When you see him, will you call 911 or adopt him as your son based on Bible?