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Smashing Economic Idols

So I've been having a few interesting conversations about my book Everyday Justice recently. I was being interviewed for a very conservative Christian talk radio show, and when I mentioned that a simple way to define biblical justice was "the practical outworking of loving God and loving others" I was told that I need to be careful about encouraging people to love their neighbor because that could lead to socialism.

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In the soundbite world of talk radio, there wasn't a chance to challenge that assertion, so I changed tactics and tried to talk about the need for Christians to embrace the spiritual discipline of simplicity and not be overcome by consumerism. Once again I was contradicted by the host who told me that I shouldn't suggest that people stop or lower their consumption because it is our duty to support the economy by buying stuff. At that point I realized that we were on totally different planets. I civilly made my way through the rest of the interview trying to speak a language he might understand, and then choose not to listen for the next hour as he proceeded to tear apart everything I said.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me or not liking the book. I get that. But his mindset reminded me of the economic idolatry that has crept into our faith. More and more I find Christians who, instead of letting their faith influence their economics, interpret their faith through their preferred economic system. I've had to listen to sermons where the pastor went off on how capitalism was the only biblical economic system. I've read the books where the guys say stuff like "because the Bible doesn't talk much about economics we need to bring economics to the Bible." I've encountered those who play the "socialism" card at the first sign of any critique of capitalism. And I've heard those claiming that economics are absolute, we can't change the market so we shouldn't bother trying even for good biblical reasons.

I get that it's complicated. I get that we like to have our pet philosophies. I get that socialism can be evil, too. But none of that excuses making economics into an idol. When our economic theory leads us to make excuses for the oppression of workers, we have a problem. When modern-day slavery is justified as being "just the way the market works," we have a problem. When making a profit becomes more important than the dignity of human beings, we have a problem. When the words of Jesus Christ are dismissed because they might support an alternate economic system, we have a problem. It is as simple as that. When our allegiance to an economic system has us making excuses for injustices, that economic system has become an idol. And idols need to be torn down.

I'm a capitalist. I'm not anti-globalisation. I don't have any problem with people making money or looking out for their own interests. I don't think communism or forced socialism are better systems. But there comes a point when we have to say to a system that oppresses -- this is wrong and must be changed. This is difficult if not impossible if we have allowed economic theory to become an idol and usurp our faith. We need to be able to "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2:8) Loving God and loving others has to come before Wall Street or Adam Smith -- there's no way around it.

So as inspiration to smash the idols that need smashing, I want to include the following verse. Brian Walsh, co-author of Colossians Remixed, recently posted a targum of Romans 1:16-32 over at the Empire Remixed blog. A targum is a means of interpreting scripture by rewriting it for a particular cultural setting. Traditionally a Hebrew practice, some use the practice today to apply the Bible to contemporary life. This Romans 1 targum addresses this tendency to make idols of economic systems. I highly recommend reading the entire piece, but I wanted to highlight this short section:

So here's the sad truth, my friends:
this empire of greed,
this narrative of economic growth,
this whole house of cards is based on lies and deception.
This whole culture of consumption,
this whole empire of money,
is based on self-willed ignorance.

Creation proclaims a better way
because creation bears witness to a God of grace.
But we have suppressed this truth,
engaged in denial and cover-up.

Refusing to live a life of gratitude,
refusing to live a life of thanks to the God
who called forth such a rich creation,
refusing to honour this Creator God,
and embracing a culture of entitlement and ingratitude,
we abandoned the God of light and embraced the dark.

And in all of our complex theories
in all of our sophisticated and incomprehensible economic talk,
we became futile in our thinking
we ended up with lots of talk but no sense,
theories that are empty,
vanity of vanities.

And we thought that we were so wise,
we thought that we had it all figured out,
but the joke has been on us,
and it is now clear that we have been fools.

You see, that's what happens when you get in bed with idols.
That's what happens when you don't image God in faithful justice,
but embrace graven images,
cheap imitations,
that look so good,
look so powerful,
but will always fail you,
will always come up short
because they are impotent.

Empty idols, empty minds.
Dumb idols, lives of foolishness.
Betrayal and disappointment.
Fear and terror.

Julie Clawson is the author of Everyday Justice: The Global Impact of Our Daily Choices (IVP 2009). She blogs at julieclawson.com and emergingwomen.us.

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by: ford49

10-09-2009 @ 4:51pm

Julie,

Amen, Amen and Amen!

by: pawheel

10-09-2009 @ 5:15pm

Capitalism is a tool, a method to live our lives without all of us having to produce all of our own goods and food we need, and to create work. I have never seen it as a way of life. I was once reminded by someone who contributes here that I shouldn't discuss economics because I am not trained in it, and it is complicated. Nuclear Science is complicated because it just is, but capitalism and economics is complicated because we make it so. Why i don't know.

Thank you for your post. It's always comforting to hear someone else say what one is thinking, and say it so well and uncomplicated.

by: ford49

10-09-2009 @ 4:51pm

Julie,

Amen, Amen and Amen!

by: pawheel

10-09-2009 @ 5:15pm

Capitalism is a tool, a method to live our lives without all of us having to produce all of our own goods and food we need, and to create work. I have never seen it as a way of life. I was once reminded by someone who contributes here that I shouldn't discuss economics because I am not trained in it, and it is complicated. Nuclear Science is complicated because it just is, but capitalism and economics is complicated because we make it so. Why i don't know.

Thank you for your post. It's always comforting to hear someone else say what one is thinking, and say it so well and uncomplicated.

by: TN_Horseman

10-09-2009 @ 9:17pm

Economics is a complicated as nuclear science because of the interrelatedness of the economy (think chaos theory). Economists attempt using quantitative methods to approximate the economy (mathematical models) and evaluate causes and effects. It is not static every change or decision creates winners and losers. The main problem is that many of the models are flawed.

Before I entered the ministry as a second career I had an MS is resource economics and worked in manufacturing for a number of years.

by: Thomas Faggard

10-09-2009 @ 10:47pm

It hard for me to immangine Jesus in a 3 piece Siut,cleanly Shaving working at Wallstreet with Maduff scumbag's Club.I am a Ghost Dancer Christian and I am Tribal and Communal.Its hard for me to Believe that the White European Facist Christians are so Fickated on Jesus as a Capitalist and Businessman and other crap.I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe when he went into the Temple and He was extremely Pissed Off.He was chasing out the Bankers and Businessman and (CorruptWallstreet and CorruptCorporations).It Like this Cowboy your version of The Gospel is a Little how do say it Twisted.I see Jesus as a Socialist and a Kick Ass Revolutionary.St.Thomas SpreadingEagle.Shaman/Minister,Graduate of VanGuard University,1976,GTU,Berkley,Masters Social Ethics and Culturals Human Values.

by: SisterMarie

10-09-2009 @ 11:26pm

"I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe..."

I think you meant "bull whip". The whipees no doubt needed wipes when He finished.

by: TN_Horseman

10-09-2009 @ 9:17pm

Economics is a complicated as nuclear science because of the interrelatedness of the economy (think chaos theory). Economists attempt using quantitative methods to approximate the economy (mathematical models) and evaluate causes and effects. It is not static every change or decision creates winners and losers. The main problem is that many of the models are flawed.

Before I entered the ministry as a second career I had an MS is resource economics and worked in manufacturing for a number of years.

by: Thomas Faggard

10-09-2009 @ 10:47pm

It hard for me to immangine Jesus in a 3 piece Siut,cleanly Shaving working at Wallstreet with Maduff scumbag's Club.I am a Ghost Dancer Christian and I am Tribal and Communal.Its hard for me to Believe that the White European Facist Christians are so Fickated on Jesus as a Capitalist and Businessman and other crap.I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe when he went into the Temple and He was extremely Pissed Off.He was chasing out the Bankers and Businessman and (CorruptWallstreet and CorruptCorporations).It Like this Cowboy your version of The Gospel is a Little how do say it Twisted.I see Jesus as a Socialist and a Kick Ass Revolutionary.St.Thomas SpreadingEagle.Shaman/Minister,Graduate of VanGuard University,1976,GTU,Berkley,Masters Social Ethics and Culturals Human Values.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 10:37am

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

by: SisterMarie

10-09-2009 @ 11:26pm

"I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe..."

I think you meant "bull whip". The whipees no doubt needed wipes when He finished.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 10:37am

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 12:37pm

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

by: BuckeyeDon

10-08-2009 @ 2:45pm

Julie: after I read this column on your own blog last evening, I began thinking about another idol you are smashing here. It's not just the idol of capitalism or one's favorite economic system that you're taking on. It's also the idol of American individualism. Our fragmented, individualistic society doesn't like to read or hear that we really are connected to the rest of humanity or to the natural world. We don't like being told that our decisions will affect others, especially that our purchasing decisions affect people adversely in other parts of the world. We don't like learning that we really aren't autonomous like we've been told we are, and that repercussions to the things we do actually do exist and cause harm.

You've taken on some very big, very significant idols from among those that exist in our society, Julie. You've told some very inconvenient truths. I pray that each of us, myself included, will confront those idols in our own lives.

You are speaking truth to power. May God be with you, and may his shield protect you.

Peace,
Don

by: lizdyer

10-08-2009 @ 3:00pm

Julie, Thank you for putting words to a feeling I have in my gut. I have been surprised many times recently to see that Christians don't see a conflict with making a profit being more important than the dignity of human beings. As unpopular as it may be to say so...I am not sure I'm that excited about capitalism any longer - now that doesn't mean I am for socialism or communism - I am not quite sure where I am landing - I am just so uncomfortable with the system we have going on here in our country at this time. I'm going to go see Michael Moore's new film and see what that has to say to me. Thanks again for speaking out about this important subject. I have ordered your book and look forward to reading it.

by: BlueDeacon

10-08-2009 @ 3:10pm

Julia -- You said in a nutshell what conservative media do to everyone who dares disagree with them -- but, ironically, exposed their worldliness in the process.

by: Lord_Voldemort

10-08-2009 @ 3:35pm

I'd love to hear the audio on this. If it all went down as Julie said, then I have to admit, this was pretty bad.

Just to be clear, loving your neighbor isn't socialist, and we are not obligated to spend money just to stimulate the economy.

LV

by: canucklehead

10-08-2009 @ 6:10pm

Julie - you're running head on into religious people who have yet to grasp the full implications of Christ's directive that we CANNOT serve God and money. Without even being aware of it, they're convinced they can prove Jesus wrong on that account. Like the rich young ruler, these guys need to be confronted with the reality that what they need to do is sell all that they have before they purport to be a Christ-follower.

by: Eric77

10-08-2009 @ 6:18pm

Well said Julie. I'm not sure how any Christian could believe that encouraging people to put into practice the commandments to love God and love others is putting our society on the road to socialism. These commandments don't necessitate any particular economic system other than one that tries to treat people justly as much as possible. The commandments only necessitate socialism if a society believes the only way to love God and love others is for the government to take over the means of production and eliminate the markets we use to buy and sell products and services. I've yet to hear a single mainstream Christian (and I define the term broadly) argue that.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what capitalism is on all sides of the political spectrum. Capitalism exists when the means of production are predominately in private hands, people can earn a profit from their labor and investment, and products and services can be bought and sold in markets. Some on the right seem to think that any regulation of markets or business means we've left capitalism behind and communism or socialism is right around the corner. They equate completely free, unregulated markets with capitalism, not realizing there is such a thing as regulated capitalism. Some on the left criticize capitalism as if it's the reason for greed, corruption and exploitation while neglecting the fact that these sins are written on the human heart and would exist in any economic system and do. Capitalism is a simple economic system and can be used for good or ill, just like any other economic system. Like Julie, I'm a capitalist. We all are.

by: BuckeyeDon

10-08-2009 @ 2:45pm

Julie: after I read this column on your own blog last evening, I began thinking about another idol you are smashing here. It's not just the idol of capitalism or one's favorite economic system that you're taking on. It's also the idol of American individualism. Our fragmented, individualistic society doesn't like to read or hear that we really are connected to the rest of humanity or to the natural world. We don't like being told that our decisions will affect others, especially that our purchasing decisions affect people adversely in other parts of the world. We don't like learning that we really aren't autonomous like we've been told we are, and that repercussions to the things we do actually do exist and cause harm.

You've taken on some very big, very significant idols from among those that exist in our society, Julie. You've told some very inconvenient truths. I pray that each of us, myself included, will confront those idols in our own lives.

You are speaking truth to power. May God be with you, and may his shield protect you.

Peace,
Don

by: Common Loon

10-08-2009 @ 6:24pm

The current economic crisis and globalized recession should be a obvious reminder of how interconnected our lives are on this planet. The idol of American individualism may never be completely torn down this side of Christ's return, but until He comes, we must be faithful to what Scripture teaches about greed, self-reliance, mutual interdependence and looking out for the vulnerable among us.

Keep up the great work Julie.

by: lizdyer

10-08-2009 @ 3:00pm

Julie, Thank you for putting words to a feeling I have in my gut. I have been surprised many times recently to see that Christians don't see a conflict with making a profit being more important than the dignity of human beings. As unpopular as it may be to say so...I am not sure I'm that excited about capitalism any longer - now that doesn't mean I am for socialism or communism - I am not quite sure where I am landing - I am just so uncomfortable with the system we have going on here in our country at this time. I'm going to go see Michael Moore's new film and see what that has to say to me. Thanks again for speaking out about this important subject. I have ordered your book and look forward to reading it.

by: BlueDeacon

10-08-2009 @ 3:10pm

Julia -- You said in a nutshell what conservative media do to everyone who dares disagree with them -- but, ironically, exposed their worldliness in the process.

by: Lord_Voldemort

10-08-2009 @ 3:35pm

I'd love to hear the audio on this. If it all went down as Julie said, then I have to admit, this was pretty bad.

Just to be clear, loving your neighbor isn't socialist, and we are not obligated to spend money just to stimulate the economy.

LV

by: Ngchen

10-08-2009 @ 6:53pm

What you mention is precisely why radio and TV are usually the worst media for actual, productive dialogue. They excel at showing the dramatic, but in terms of actual content, they are extremely poor. A study done decades ago showed something like how a 1 hr TV news program can be crammed into 1 page of a typical newspaper. So, when one is faced with a hostile (or otherwise) interviewer, it's next to impossible to not have everything reduced to a few soundbites.

by: RadicalChristianLibrarian

10-08-2009 @ 8:25pm

I'd like to hear the audio too. Can you imagine a Christian (conservative or not!) discouraging a person from talking about loving one's neighbor because it could "lead to socialism?" Or from talking about living simply?

Not that I don't believe her account, it just seems too incredible- A professed Christian encouraging the worship of mammon.

by: canucklehead

10-08-2009 @ 6:10pm

Julie - you're running head on into religious people who have yet to grasp the full implications of Christ's directive that we CANNOT serve God and money. Without even being aware of it, they're convinced they can prove Jesus wrong on that account. Like the rich young ruler, these guys need to be confronted with the reality that what they need to do is sell all that they have before they purport to be a Christ-follower.

by: Eric77

10-08-2009 @ 6:18pm

Well said Julie. I'm not sure how any Christian could believe that encouraging people to put into practice the commandments to love God and love others is putting our society on the road to socialism. These commandments don't necessitate any particular economic system other than one that tries to treat people justly as much as possible. The commandments only necessitate socialism if a society believes the only way to love God and love others is for the government to take over the means of production and eliminate the markets we use to buy and sell products and services. I've yet to hear a single mainstream Christian (and I define the term broadly) argue that.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what capitalism is on all sides of the political spectrum. Capitalism exists when the means of production are predominately in private hands, people can earn a profit from their labor and investment, and products and services can be bought and sold in markets. Some on the right seem to think that any regulation of markets or business means we've left capitalism behind and communism or socialism is right around the corner. They equate completely free, unregulated markets with capitalism, not realizing there is such a thing as regulated capitalism. Some on the left criticize capitalism as if it's the reason for greed, corruption and exploitation while neglecting the fact that these sins are written on the human heart and would exist in any economic system and do. Capitalism is a simple economic system and can be used for good or ill, just like any other economic system. Like Julie, I'm a capitalist. We all are.

by: Common Loon

10-08-2009 @ 6:24pm

The current economic crisis and globalized recession should be a obvious reminder of how interconnected our lives are on this planet. The idol of American individualism may never be completely torn down this side of Christ's return, but until He comes, we must be faithful to what Scripture teaches about greed, self-reliance, mutual interdependence and looking out for the vulnerable among us.

Keep up the great work Julie.

by: Ngchen

10-08-2009 @ 6:53pm

What you mention is precisely why radio and TV are usually the worst media for actual, productive dialogue. They excel at showing the dramatic, but in terms of actual content, they are extremely poor. A study done decades ago showed something like how a 1 hr TV news program can be crammed into 1 page of a typical newspaper. So, when one is faced with a hostile (or otherwise) interviewer, it's next to impossible to not have everything reduced to a few soundbites.

by: RadicalChristianLibrarian

10-08-2009 @ 8:25pm

I'd like to hear the audio too. Can you imagine a Christian (conservative or not!) discouraging a person from talking about loving one's neighbor because it could "lead to socialism?" Or from talking about living simply?

Not that I don't believe her account, it just seems too incredible- A professed Christian encouraging the worship of mammon.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 12:37pm

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: BuckeyeDon

10-08-2009 @ 2:45pm

Julie: after I read this column on your own blog last evening, I began thinking about another idol you are smashing here. It's not just the idol of capitalism or one's favorite economic system that you're taking on. It's also the idol of American individualism. Our fragmented, individualistic society doesn't like to read or hear that we really are connected to the rest of humanity or to the natural world. We don't like being told that our decisions will affect others, especially that our purchasing decisions affect people adversely in other parts of the world. We don't like learning that we really aren't autonomous like we've been told we are, and that repercussions to the things we do actually do exist and cause harm.

You've taken on some very big, very significant idols from among those that exist in our society, Julie. You've told some very inconvenient truths. I pray that each of us, myself included, will confront those idols in our own lives.

You are speaking truth to power. May God be with you, and may his shield protect you.

Peace,
Don

by: BuckeyeDon

10-08-2009 @ 2:45pm

Julie: after I read this column on your own blog last evening, I began thinking about another idol you are smashing here. It's not just the idol of capitalism or one's favorite economic system that you're taking on. It's also the idol of American individualism. Our fragmented, individualistic society doesn't like to read or hear that we really are connected to the rest of humanity or to the natural world. We don't like being told that our decisions will affect others, especially that our purchasing decisions affect people adversely in other parts of the world. We don't like learning that we really aren't autonomous like we've been told we are, and that repercussions to the things we do actually do exist and cause harm.

You've taken on some very big, very significant idols from among those that exist in our society, Julie. You've told some very inconvenient truths. I pray that each of us, myself included, will confront those idols in our own lives.

You are speaking truth to power. May God be with you, and may his shield protect you.

Peace,
Don

by: lizdyer

10-08-2009 @ 3:00pm

Julie, Thank you for putting words to a feeling I have in my gut. I have been surprised many times recently to see that Christians don't see a conflict with making a profit being more important than the dignity of human beings. As unpopular as it may be to say so...I am not sure I'm that excited about capitalism any longer - now that doesn't mean I am for socialism or communism - I am not quite sure where I am landing - I am just so uncomfortable with the system we have going on here in our country at this time. I'm going to go see Michael Moore's new film and see what that has to say to me. Thanks again for speaking out about this important subject. I have ordered your book and look forward to reading it.

by: lizdyer

10-08-2009 @ 3:00pm

Julie, Thank you for putting words to a feeling I have in my gut. I have been surprised many times recently to see that Christians don't see a conflict with making a profit being more important than the dignity of human beings. As unpopular as it may be to say so...I am not sure I'm that excited about capitalism any longer - now that doesn't mean I am for socialism or communism - I am not quite sure where I am landing - I am just so uncomfortable with the system we have going on here in our country at this time. I'm going to go see Michael Moore's new film and see what that has to say to me. Thanks again for speaking out about this important subject. I have ordered your book and look forward to reading it.

by: BlueDeacon

10-08-2009 @ 3:10pm

Julia -- You said in a nutshell what conservative media do to everyone who dares disagree with them -- but, ironically, exposed their worldliness in the process.

by: BlueDeacon

10-08-2009 @ 3:10pm

Julia -- You said in a nutshell what conservative media do to everyone who dares disagree with them -- but, ironically, exposed their worldliness in the process.

by: Lord_Voldemort

10-08-2009 @ 3:35pm

I'd love to hear the audio on this. If it all went down as Julie said, then I have to admit, this was pretty bad.

Just to be clear, loving your neighbor isn't socialist, and we are not obligated to spend money just to stimulate the economy.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

10-08-2009 @ 3:35pm

I'd love to hear the audio on this. If it all went down as Julie said, then I have to admit, this was pretty bad.

Just to be clear, loving your neighbor isn't socialist, and we are not obligated to spend money just to stimulate the economy.

LV

by: canucklehead

10-08-2009 @ 6:10pm

Julie - you're running head on into religious people who have yet to grasp the full implications of Christ's directive that we CANNOT serve God and money. Without even being aware of it, they're convinced they can prove Jesus wrong on that account. Like the rich young ruler, these guys need to be confronted with the reality that what they need to do is sell all that they have before they purport to be a Christ-follower.

by: canucklehead

10-08-2009 @ 6:10pm

Julie - you're running head on into religious people who have yet to grasp the full implications of Christ's directive that we CANNOT serve God and money. Without even being aware of it, they're convinced they can prove Jesus wrong on that account. Like the rich young ruler, these guys need to be confronted with the reality that what they need to do is sell all that they have before they purport to be a Christ-follower.

by: Eric77

10-08-2009 @ 6:18pm

Well said Julie. I'm not sure how any Christian could believe that encouraging people to put into practice the commandments to love God and love others is putting our society on the road to socialism. These commandments don't necessitate any particular economic system other than one that tries to treat people justly as much as possible. The commandments only necessitate socialism if a society believes the only way to love God and love others is for the government to take over the means of production and eliminate the markets we use to buy and sell products and services. I've yet to hear a single mainstream Christian (and I define the term broadly) argue that.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what capitalism is on all sides of the political spectrum. Capitalism exists when the means of production are predominately in private hands, people can earn a profit from their labor and investment, and products and services can be bought and sold in markets. Some on the right seem to think that any regulation of markets or business means we've left capitalism behind and communism or socialism is right around the corner. They equate completely free, unregulated markets with capitalism, not realizing there is such a thing as regulated capitalism. Some on the left criticize capitalism as if it's the reason for greed, corruption and exploitation while neglecting the fact that these sins are written on the human heart and would exist in any economic system and do. Capitalism is a simple economic system and can be used for good or ill, just like any other economic system. Like Julie, I'm a capitalist. We all are.

by: Eric77

10-08-2009 @ 6:18pm

Well said Julie. I'm not sure how any Christian could believe that encouraging people to put into practice the commandments to love God and love others is putting our society on the road to socialism. These commandments don't necessitate any particular economic system other than one that tries to treat people justly as much as possible. The commandments only necessitate socialism if a society believes the only way to love God and love others is for the government to take over the means of production and eliminate the markets we use to buy and sell products and services. I've yet to hear a single mainstream Christian (and I define the term broadly) argue that.

I think there's a lot of confusion about what capitalism is on all sides of the political spectrum. Capitalism exists when the means of production are predominately in private hands, people can earn a profit from their labor and investment, and products and services can be bought and sold in markets. Some on the right seem to think that any regulation of markets or business means we've left capitalism behind and communism or socialism is right around the corner. They equate completely free, unregulated markets with capitalism, not realizing there is such a thing as regulated capitalism. Some on the left criticize capitalism as if it's the reason for greed, corruption and exploitation while neglecting the fact that these sins are written on the human heart and would exist in any economic system and do. Capitalism is a simple economic system and can be used for good or ill, just like any other economic system. Like Julie, I'm a capitalist. We all are.

by: Common Loon

10-08-2009 @ 6:24pm

The current economic crisis and globalized recession should be a obvious reminder of how interconnected our lives are on this planet. The idol of American individualism may never be completely torn down this side of Christ's return, but until He comes, we must be faithful to what Scripture teaches about greed, self-reliance, mutual interdependence and looking out for the vulnerable among us.

Keep up the great work Julie.

by: Common Loon

10-08-2009 @ 6:24pm

The current economic crisis and globalized recession should be a obvious reminder of how interconnected our lives are on this planet. The idol of American individualism may never be completely torn down this side of Christ's return, but until He comes, we must be faithful to what Scripture teaches about greed, self-reliance, mutual interdependence and looking out for the vulnerable among us.

Keep up the great work Julie.

by: Ngchen

10-08-2009 @ 6:53pm

What you mention is precisely why radio and TV are usually the worst media for actual, productive dialogue. They excel at showing the dramatic, but in terms of actual content, they are extremely poor. A study done decades ago showed something like how a 1 hr TV news program can be crammed into 1 page of a typical newspaper. So, when one is faced with a hostile (or otherwise) interviewer, it's next to impossible to not have everything reduced to a few soundbites.

by: Ngchen

10-08-2009 @ 6:53pm

What you mention is precisely why radio and TV are usually the worst media for actual, productive dialogue. They excel at showing the dramatic, but in terms of actual content, they are extremely poor. A study done decades ago showed something like how a 1 hr TV news program can be crammed into 1 page of a typical newspaper. So, when one is faced with a hostile (or otherwise) interviewer, it's next to impossible to not have everything reduced to a few soundbites.

by: RadicalChristianLibrarian

10-08-2009 @ 8:25pm

I'd like to hear the audio too. Can you imagine a Christian (conservative or not!) discouraging a person from talking about loving one's neighbor because it could "lead to socialism?" Or from talking about living simply?

Not that I don't believe her account, it just seems too incredible- A professed Christian encouraging the worship of mammon.

by: RadicalChristianLibrarian

10-08-2009 @ 8:25pm

I'd like to hear the audio too. Can you imagine a Christian (conservative or not!) discouraging a person from talking about loving one's neighbor because it could "lead to socialism?" Or from talking about living simply?

Not that I don't believe her account, it just seems too incredible- A professed Christian encouraging the worship of mammon.

by: ford49

10-09-2009 @ 4:51pm

Julie,

Amen, Amen and Amen!

by: ford49

10-09-2009 @ 4:51pm

Julie,

Amen, Amen and Amen!

by: pawheel

10-09-2009 @ 5:15pm

Capitalism is a tool, a method to live our lives without all of us having to produce all of our own goods and food we need, and to create work. I have never seen it as a way of life. I was once reminded by someone who contributes here that I shouldn't discuss economics because I am not trained in it, and it is complicated. Nuclear Science is complicated because it just is, but capitalism and economics is complicated because we make it so. Why i don't know.

Thank you for your post. It's always comforting to hear someone else say what one is thinking, and say it so well and uncomplicated.

by: pawheel

10-09-2009 @ 5:15pm

Capitalism is a tool, a method to live our lives without all of us having to produce all of our own goods and food we need, and to create work. I have never seen it as a way of life. I was once reminded by someone who contributes here that I shouldn't discuss economics because I am not trained in it, and it is complicated. Nuclear Science is complicated because it just is, but capitalism and economics is complicated because we make it so. Why i don't know.

Thank you for your post. It's always comforting to hear someone else say what one is thinking, and say it so well and uncomplicated.

by: TN_Horseman

10-09-2009 @ 9:17pm

Economics is a complicated as nuclear science because of the interrelatedness of the economy (think chaos theory). Economists attempt using quantitative methods to approximate the economy (mathematical models) and evaluate causes and effects. It is not static every change or decision creates winners and losers. The main problem is that many of the models are flawed.

Before I entered the ministry as a second career I had an MS is resource economics and worked in manufacturing for a number of years.

by: TN_Horseman

10-09-2009 @ 9:17pm

Economics is a complicated as nuclear science because of the interrelatedness of the economy (think chaos theory). Economists attempt using quantitative methods to approximate the economy (mathematical models) and evaluate causes and effects. It is not static every change or decision creates winners and losers. The main problem is that many of the models are flawed.

Before I entered the ministry as a second career I had an MS is resource economics and worked in manufacturing for a number of years.

by: Thomas Faggard

10-09-2009 @ 10:47pm

It hard for me to immangine Jesus in a 3 piece Siut,cleanly Shaving working at Wallstreet with Maduff scumbag's Club.I am a Ghost Dancer Christian and I am Tribal and Communal.Its hard for me to Believe that the White European Facist Christians are so Fickated on Jesus as a Capitalist and Businessman and other crap.I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe when he went into the Temple and He was extremely Pissed Off.He was chasing out the Bankers and Businessman and (CorruptWallstreet and CorruptCorporations).It Like this Cowboy your version of The Gospel is a Little how do say it Twisted.I see Jesus as a Socialist and a Kick Ass Revolutionary.St.Thomas SpreadingEagle.Shaman/Minister,Graduate of VanGuard University,1976,GTU,Berkley,Masters Social Ethics and Culturals Human Values.

by: Thomas Faggard

10-09-2009 @ 10:47pm

It hard for me to immangine Jesus in a 3 piece Siut,cleanly Shaving working at Wallstreet with Maduff scumbag's Club.I am a Ghost Dancer Christian and I am Tribal and Communal.Its hard for me to Believe that the White European Facist Christians are so Fickated on Jesus as a Capitalist and Businessman and other crap.I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe when he went into the Temple and He was extremely Pissed Off.He was chasing out the Bankers and Businessman and (CorruptWallstreet and CorruptCorporations).It Like this Cowboy your version of The Gospel is a Little how do say it Twisted.I see Jesus as a Socialist and a Kick Ass Revolutionary.St.Thomas SpreadingEagle.Shaman/Minister,Graduate of VanGuard University,1976,GTU,Berkley,Masters Social Ethics and Culturals Human Values.

by: SisterMarie

10-09-2009 @ 11:26pm

"I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe..."

I think you meant "bull whip". The whipees no doubt needed wipes when He finished.

by: SisterMarie

10-09-2009 @ 11:26pm

"I aways remember that Jesus had a Bull wipe..."

I think you meant "bull whip". The whipees no doubt needed wipes when He finished.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 10:37am

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 10:37am

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 12:37pm

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.

by: Eric77

10-10-2009 @ 12:37pm

Please stop calling people "Facist" or Nazi. It's rude and diminishes the capacity for dialogue, not to mention factually inaccurate.