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Practicing Jesus' Third Way in the Public Square

In the midst of the hate speech that's surfacing in the public square these days, I've been asking myself how I can respond to such speech nonviolently. How can I engage with compassion those who sling word-arrows, inviting the slingers to transformation?

Earlier this year, Julio Diaz, a New York City social worker met violence with compassion when he stepped off the subway and a teenager pulled a knife on him and demanded his wallet. After giving the teen his wallet, Diaz engaged him as he began to walk away, offering him his coat and inviting him to dinner. The would-be robber accepted the dinner invitation, and the conversation over dinner, through Diaz's masterful engagement with the teen and the teen's openness to listening, resulted in the teen returning the wallet and giving up his knife.

When they heard about the incident, many readers of the story asked themselves what they would have done, judged themselves as incapable of rising to the challenge in the way that Diaz did, and left it at that. Diaz became a hero, one who practiced unattainable heroics ordinary mortals can never expect to perform. It was easy to put him in the category of heroes like Desmond Tutu and Aung San Suu Kyi, and excuse oneself from having to act like him.

But treating the story in this way misses its most important lesson. There are hints in the story of Diaz's practice, practice, and more practice. People like Diaz and Tutu and Suu Kyi have been living this way for a long time. As Walter Wink points out in Engaging the Powers, in a world that teaches fight or flight, those who want to practice Jesus' third way, the way of encountering violence with compassion and transforming it, must rehearse that third way. We need groups of people who gather to talk about situations they face every day, small and large, subtle and not so subtle. We need opportunities to brainstorm and role play "third way" responses.

We may not be able to start with Jesus' third way at knifepoint. On a scale of 1-10, the situation in which Diaz found himself was a "10." Only because he had been practicing "1's," "2's," "5's," and "8's" over the years was he able to rise to the occasion when he encountered a "10." Fortunately, most of us don't encounter robberies at knifepoint regularly. But we do encounter "1's," "2's," and "5's" frequently. And at this moment in the U. S., we are hearing racism and other forms of hate speech in the public square. How do we respond when we hear a co-worker repeating a talk-show host's racist remarks? How do we respond when we are the target of a neighbor's anger because of our political views? Do we intervene when we see a bully in the office or on the playground getting away with hate speech and if so, how?

Where do we get support for responding differently from our knee-jerk fight or flight responses? What are our opportunities to gather with others and practice Jesus' third way?

I may not have the wherewithal to stand up and confront a talk-show host today using Jesus' third way. At the same time, with the help of other like-minded people, I can begin to practice that third way in the myriad situations I encounter every day, and begin to build up my third way muscles. And in the unlikely event that I am ever confronted with a "10" situation, as Diaz was, I just might be able to rise to the occasion.

portrait-margaret-benefielMargaret Benefiel, Ph.D., author of Soul at Work and The Soul of a Leader, works with leaders in health care, business, churches, government, and nonprofits to help them stay true to their souls. Visit her Web site.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: Chris "Jesdisciple"

11-18-2009 @ 6:26am

"Ditto" with your question or "Ditto" meaning "I agree with th rest of your post?"

I agree with the rest of your post.

I have given help to people who later hurt people; but, I believe that the Holy Spirit protected me from having that happen to me.

Is this supposed to lead up to the next paragraph?

Jesus is like our older spiritual brother and I prefer to use his given human name. I never called Lewis, my older brother, "Brother;" I called him "Lewis."

In Scripture, He is called "Christ Jesus," "Jesus Christ," "Jesus," or "Christ," (and similar combinations involving "Lord") depending on which qualities the writer wished to emphasize. It matters little which name or title we use for Him, certainly in any legalistic way, but if anything we should mirror our usage after that of Scripture. Paul's epistles probably give the richest demonstration.

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Lor...

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

11-18-2009 @ 4:50am

"Ditto" with your question or "Ditto" meaning "I agree with th rest of your post?"

I have given help to people who later hurt people; but, I believe that the Holy Spirit protected me from having that happen to me.

Jesus is like our older spiritual brother and I prefer to use his given human name. I never called Lewis, my older brother, "Brother;" I called him "Lewis."

by: Charles Kiker

06-20-2011 @ 8:28am

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https://www.linkedin.com/e/ejs...

Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.

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by: Chris "Jesdisciple"

11-18-2009 @ 4:26am

"Ditto" with your question or "Ditto" meaning "I agree with th rest of your post?"

I agree with the rest of your post.

I have given help to people who later hurt people; but, I believe that the Holy Spirit protected me from having that happen to me.

Is this supposed to lead up to the next paragraph?

Jesus is like our older spiritual brother and I prefer to use his given human name. I never called Lewis, my older brother, "Brother;" I called him "Lewis."

In Scripture, He is called "Christ Jesus," "Jesus Christ," "Jesus," or "Christ," (and similar combinations involving "Lord") depending on which qualities the writer wished to emphasize. It matters little which name or title we use for Him, certainly in any legalistic way, but if anything we should mirror our usage after that of Scripture. Paul's epistles probably give the richest demonstration.

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Lor...

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

11-18-2009 @ 2:50am

"Ditto" with your question or "Ditto" meaning "I agree with th rest of your post?"

I have given help to people who later hurt people; but, I believe that the Holy Spirit protected me from having that happen to me.

Jesus is like our older spiritual brother and I prefer to use his given human name. I never called Lewis, my older brother, "Brother;" I called him "Lewis."

by: scottvolltrauer

11-17-2009 @ 1:57pm

"with the help of other like-minded people, I can begin to practice that third way in the myriad situations I encounter every day, and begin to build up my third way muscles. And in the unlikely event that I am ever confronted with a "10" situation, as Diaz was, I just might be able to rise to the occasion."

Yes, and with love and and an intimate sense of common purpose "while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people...each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved."

mysilentscream.com

by: scat

11-17-2009 @ 3:25am

I don't think it is necessary to be faced with a knife-weilding person to deal with this issue.In my journey with Jesus, I am convinced that pacifism is his ultimate hope for us. I am committed to becoming more like him than me and pacifism also logically appeals to me. Since I tend to have a wee bit of a temper, it is a daily challenge -- not honking at the fool that just cut in front of me, not snarling back at a foolish inadvertant insult, not tearing to shreds a person exhibiting prejudice, etc.
In other words, I believe it is a way of life, a way of living, not just an issue that arises in extreme circumstances. And when such a dramatic situation arises, if you have lived this way, it will be a normal reaction to respond with good will rather than violence. To live otherwise would be a rejection of faith in God, it would be saying His way is not the right way.And it is not result dependent.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-13-2009 @ 4:00pm

For example, I have posted many comments requesting Sojo to have contributors post a follow-up comment (at least a "Thanks for reading" message) on these blogs. This is like "Dialogue 101"--or maybe even Pre-Dialogue class.

Maybe you would join in this little tiny request

by: MacArthur4

11-13-2009 @ 4:34pm

Beautiful story . The man was mirroring Christ.

How quickly we are to cast those in different cultures as narrow, hateful, and yet never take the time or love this man models for us to reach beyond the shadows.

by: Ngchen

11-13-2009 @ 5:02pm

I agree that a beautiful picture was presented. Julio Diaz was following Christ. Just be aware that not all, or even most such stories end in the way described. Alternative outcomes could easily have involved him being murdered for daring to stand up to the robber. SO, what do we do?

by: letjusticerolldown

11-13-2009 @ 4:00pm

For example, I have posted many comments requesting Sojo to have contributors post a follow-up comment (at least a "Thanks for reading" message) on these blogs. This is like "Dialogue 101"--or maybe even Pre-Dialogue class.

Maybe you would join in this little tiny request

by: MacArthur4

11-13-2009 @ 4:34pm

Beautiful story . The man was mirroring Christ.

How quickly we are to cast those in different cultures as narrow, hateful, and yet never take the time or love this man models for us to reach beyond the shadows.

by: Lord_Voldemort

11-13-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hate speech? What hate speech?

LV

by: Chris "Jesdisciple"

11-18-2009 @ 6:26am

"Ditto" with your question or "Ditto" meaning "I agree with th rest of your post?"

I agree with the rest of your post.

I have given help to people who later hurt people; but, I believe that the Holy Spirit protected me from having that happen to me.

Is this supposed to lead up to the next paragraph?

Jesus is like our older spiritual brother and I prefer to use his given human name. I never called Lewis, my older brother, "Brother;" I called him "Lewis."

In Scripture, He is called "Christ Jesus," "Jesus Christ," "Jesus," or "Christ," (and similar combinations involving "Lord") depending on which qualities the writer wished to emphasize. It matters little which name or title we use for Him, certainly in any legalistic way, but if anything we should mirror our usage after that of Scripture. Paul's epistles probably give the richest demonstration.

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Lor...

by: Ngchen

11-13-2009 @ 5:02pm

I agree that a beautiful picture was presented. Julio Diaz was following Christ. Just be aware that not all, or even most such stories end in the way described. Alternative outcomes could easily have involved him being murdered for daring to stand up to the robber. SO, what do we do?

by: NC77

11-13-2009 @ 9:12pm

My take is the author believes that the hate speech is telling the truth and not being politically correct about the situation. She wrote...

"The would-be robber accepted the dinner invitation, and the conversation over dinner, through Diaz's masterful engagement with the teen and the teen's openness to listening, resulted in the teen returning the wallet and giving up his knife."

The teen repented. The teen was not a "would-be" robber, he was a robber, he is a criminal and committed a criminal act. If he had not committed a criminal act, there would be no need for him to repent and return the wallet. There is a political persuassion in this country that distorts the truth (and Christianity) and labels victims as wrongdoers, and the wrongdoers as victims.

That is not the truth of Jesus. One only has to look at the conversation of the two thieves crucified with Jesus to understand this. Which one wound up in paradise with Jesus that very day and why? The one who admitted he was deserving of the punishment he was receiving.

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

11-18-2009 @ 4:50am

"Ditto" with your question or "Ditto" meaning "I agree with th rest of your post?"

I have given help to people who later hurt people; but, I believe that the Holy Spirit protected me from having that happen to me.

Jesus is like our older spiritual brother and I prefer to use his given human name. I never called Lewis, my older brother, "Brother;" I called him "Lewis."

by: kansasmennonite

11-14-2009 @ 1:58am

Where have you been Lord? The hate speach is all around us.

It would do everyone good to follow the story and learn how to take the steps to achieve a 10. Learning how to deal with hate speach is a step along the way.

by: Grees

08-03-2011 @ 2:09am

Ported...

[

by: Lord_Voldemort

11-13-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hate speech? What hate speech?

LV

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 4:15am

"SO, what do we do?"

That is a good question, and I believe discernment is something may help us. But your right the person you are dealing with could be a socio path and Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered, but the messageI received and the encourgagement to try is to show the Love of Christ to the unlovable.

So maybe the answer is just do our best . But to keep this in our daily walk . ?

by: NC77

11-13-2009 @ 9:12pm

My take is the author believes that the hate speech is telling the truth and not being politically correct about the situation. She wrote...

"The would-be robber accepted the dinner invitation, and the conversation over dinner, through Diaz's masterful engagement with the teen and the teen's openness to listening, resulted in the teen returning the wallet and giving up his knife."

The teen repented. The teen was not a "would-be" robber, he was a robber, he is a criminal and committed a criminal act. If he had not committed a criminal act, there would be no need for him to repent and return the wallet. There is a political persuassion in this country that distorts the truth (and Christianity) and labels victims as wrongdoers, and the wrongdoers as victims.

That is not the truth of Jesus. One only has to look at the conversation of the two thieves crucified with Jesus to understand this. Which one wound up in paradise with Jesus that very day and why? The one who admitted he was deserving of the punishment he was receiving.

by: SamHamilton

11-14-2009 @ 1:14pm

I don't like that term either. It's so all-encompassing it means nothing. But the story she told is wonderful. I can only hope that put in a similar situation I would react the same way.

by: ckgmail

11-14-2009 @ 3:47pm

I occasionally leave comments on news stories and blogs. I try to be respectful of opposing opinions. Occasionally people with opinions opposed to mean turn insulting and disrespectful in their replies, nearly always anonymously. I think its important that we identify ourselves, and that we are respectful of other peoples' opinions, and that we not hide behind a cloak of anonymity.
I'm Charles Kiker. I live in small town Tulia, Texas.

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 6:22pm

I have not noticed that . Your comments before about an incomplete Christian regarding a political /religious view of social justice show a respectful opinion that was lacking from my perspective in my pew. Obviously if your view of justice included paying to the treasurey of a government on an equal basic , say a percentage it would conflict with the people at the meeting using religion in the form of their idea of justice or scales and weights they use. I suggest to you the lives of our poor now , would be considered high rollers 150 years ago. Not that helping people is anyhtring you and I should disagree on , but who receives and who gives is a problem that should be discussed with God as our ref ? Ok ?

The meat of the matter is that I can respect a persons view in say socialism , communism , it is the comment that your politics somehow have any kind of religious link with God I find offensive and actually makes God smaller .

Of course we are to support justice , help the poor , not worship idols. We can agree on that / but me speaking to your faith as being incomplete if you taking the money from one without their consent to give to another is equally as wrong . The religious left limits itself from speaking to issues with Evangelicals because they limit the tolerance and respect all people of Faith should show one another. What happens if a person agrees with 50 percent of that conference you supported , is half of their faith incomplete ?

The problem is you do not see that . So instead of joing in unity , where as perhaps we could join in prayer , unity , in furthering the Kingdom , you chose to define another believer by your culturally acceptable belief of being a fullfilled Christian . You may be filled with the spirit my friend , but its not your politics that have caused this . The spirit may encourgage you in your wanting to help, and i admire that . But you being able to see that perhaps your wrong , or even acknowledge and respect another believer may disagree with you would be a more Bibical approach of Justcie from understanding of who God wants us to be like.

I know many people on the right who are indeed spirit Filled and doing the works of God with the those less fortunate then us , yet their politics do not define them, their God , I hope "Our" God does.
When those good people i know used their faith to compel polics , it appeared intolerant and empty to me . No difference when the left does it. t in fact appears to damage the Kingdom . If that is possible , and I would suggest it really is not , thus hurts those who are doing it more and those unbelievers who may be caused to dismiss the Gospel because of the emptiness of it.

Perhaps look at the wording of the political religious meeting you commented on , are you saying social justice has nothing to do with the issues that they chose not to speak to , that perhaps supporting the issues you felt were important could not cause another believer consicience , his relationship with God to be compromised ? You don't undersdtand that ? That our conscience being given up to political pressure to conform is what has always been the sin of the religious political movement of social justice.

Mick

by: kansasmennonite

11-14-2009 @ 1:58am

Where have you been Lord? The hate speach is all around us.

It would do everyone good to follow the story and learn how to take the steps to achieve a 10. Learning how to deal with hate speach is a step along the way.

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 4:15am

"SO, what do we do?"

That is a good question, and I believe discernment is something may help us. But your right the person you are dealing with could be a socio path and Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered, but the messageI received and the encourgagement to try is to show the Love of Christ to the unlovable.

So maybe the answer is just do our best . But to keep this in our daily walk . ?

by: SamHamilton

11-14-2009 @ 1:14pm

I don't like that term either. It's so all-encompassing it means nothing. But the story she told is wonderful. I can only hope that put in a similar situation I would react the same way.

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 12:29pm

Mick, you are attributing things to me that I did not say or even imply. I did not use the phrase "incomplete Chrisitan." (Although I would readily acknowledge that I am one.) What I meant by my original very brief comment was that Evangelism w/o social justice represents an incomplete faith. (Again, I readily acknowledge that my faith is not complete, although I am approaching 76 years of age and have been a confessed Christian for about 66 of those years, have been an ordained minister for 48 years, and have about 10 years of formal religious instruction, including a Ph. D. in Biblical languages.) But I still learn. I am learning from you even now that when I post I need to be more precise in my statements.

You are responding to two of my posts. In the most recent I am echoing the need to show respect. In so doing I meant no disrespect to you. Commenters on this blog manage to express disagreement w/o being nasty about it. Comments I read on line in secular newspapers are frequently mean spirited. A recent comment, written anonymously, attacked the writer of an LTE for using a false name. Whether the writer did or did not use a false name, I do not know. But the commenter DID write anonymously.

We are one in the Lord, whether we want to be or not!

Charles Kiker

by: larg

11-15-2009 @ 12:55pm

I am a pediatrician. On a regular basis I encounter children who have experienced violence and bear the marks of it on their skin, bones and hearts. Often the presumed perpetrator of this violence accompanies the child. I have yet to figure out how Jesus would respond to these adults. Does anyone have suggestions for responding in a way that is transformative?

by: ckgmail

11-14-2009 @ 3:47pm

I occasionally leave comments on news stories and blogs. I try to be respectful of opposing opinions. Occasionally people with opinions opposed to mean turn insulting and disrespectful in their replies, nearly always anonymously. I think its important that we identify ourselves, and that we are respectful of other peoples' opinions, and that we not hide behind a cloak of anonymity.
I'm Charles Kiker. I live in small town Tulia, Texas.

by: MacArthur4

11-15-2009 @ 4:38pm

Well Charles thank you for clearing that up . Thre have been quite the mcoys hatfields that have made exchanging views and ideas quite challenging .

One of the reasons I liked the story above , we need to show the love of Christ to each other , if we don't how can we expect to show it to the world . had a Pastor once who told me Christians were the only ones who shoot their wounded.

Thanks for your reply ,

Mick

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 6:22pm

I have not noticed that . Your comments before about an incomplete Christian regarding a political /religious view of social justice show a respectful opinion that was lacking from my perspective in my pew. Obviously if your view of justice included paying to the treasurey of a government on an equal basic , say a percentage it would conflict with the people at the meeting using religion in the form of their idea of justice or scales and weights they use. I suggest to you the lives of our poor now , would be considered high rollers 150 years ago. Not that helping people is anyhtring you and I should disagree on , but who receives and who gives is a problem that should be discussed with God as our ref ? Ok ?

The meat of the matter is that I can respect a persons view in say socialism , communism , it is the comment that your politics somehow have any kind of religious link with God I find offensive and actually makes God smaller .

Of course we are to support justice , help the poor , not worship idols. We can agree on that / but me speaking to your faith as being incomplete if you taking the money from one without their consent to give to another is equally as wrong . The religious left limits itself from speaking to issues with Evangelicals because they limit the tolerance and respect all people of Faith should show one another. What happens if a person agrees with 50 percent of that conference you supported , is half of their faith incomplete ?

The problem is you do not see that . So instead of joing in unity , where as perhaps we could join in prayer , unity , in furthering the Kingdom , you chose to define another believer by your culturally acceptable belief of being a fullfilled Christian . You may be filled with the spirit my friend , but its not your politics that have caused this . The spirit may encourgage you in your wanting to help, and i admire that . But you being able to see that perhaps your wrong , or even acknowledge and respect another believer may disagree with you would be a more Bibical approach of Justcie from understanding of who God wants us to be like.

I know many people on the right who are indeed spirit Filled and doing the works of God with the those less fortunate then us , yet their politics do not define them, their God , I hope "Our" God does.
When those good people i know used their faith to compel polics , it appeared intolerant and empty to me . No difference when the left does it. t in fact appears to damage the Kingdom . If that is possible , and I would suggest it really is not , thus hurts those who are doing it more and those unbelievers who may be caused to dismiss the Gospel because of the emptiness of it.

Perhaps look at the wording of the political religious meeting you commented on , are you saying social justice has nothing to do with the issues that they chose not to speak to , that perhaps supporting the issues you felt were important could not cause another believer consicience , his relationship with God to be compromised ? You don't undersdtand that ? That our conscience being given up to political pressure to conform is what has always been the sin of the religious political movement of social justice.

Mick

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 6:17pm

We need to be able to exchange views. Thanks for your response. Charles

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:18pm

Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered

While I would be reluctant too, this is at least partly false. The best of us get murdered in Scripture all the time for actually preaching. I have trouble seeing any relevant difference...

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:28pm

I agree with your second paragraph, but the definition used by many liberals for "hate speech" is indeed very broad. I haven't looked into it enough to argue about Rush and friends yet, but I have to suggest finding a Christian conservative forum to ask this kind of thing in. Visiting the other side and seriously listening really does help; I'm currently learning a lot on other topics from conservatives who adamantly object to my vision of how politics should work.

Here's a good example, although the area is only open to posts from theologically conservative Christians: http://www.christianforums.com/t7339321/ That board has a forum for general politics as well.

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:43pm

That is one tough question... I guess I'd try to get the parent alone and gently bring the topic up if they seem relatively open to talking about it, or you could give your pastor an anonymous tip. Otherwise, or if that doesn't work, you've got to call CPS.

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 12:29pm

Mick, you are attributing things to me that I did not say or even imply. I did not use the phrase "incomplete Chrisitan." (Although I would readily acknowledge that I am one.) What I meant by my original very brief comment was that Evangelism w/o social justice represents an incomplete faith. (Again, I readily acknowledge that my faith is not complete, although I am approaching 76 years of age and have been a confessed Christian for about 66 of those years, have been an ordained minister for 48 years, and have about 10 years of formal religious instruction, including a Ph. D. in Biblical languages.) But I still learn. I am learning from you even now that when I post I need to be more precise in my statements.

You are responding to two of my posts. In the most recent I am echoing the need to show respect. In so doing I meant no disrespect to you. Commenters on this blog manage to express disagreement w/o being nasty about it. Comments I read on line in secular newspapers are frequently mean spirited. A recent comment, written anonymously, attacked the writer of an LTE for using a false name. Whether the writer did or did not use a false name, I do not know. But the commenter DID write anonymously.

We are one in the Lord, whether we want to be or not!

Charles Kiker

by: kansasmennonite

11-15-2009 @ 11:44pm

I used your url and got a post talking about Beck and Hannity. What do you mean by only open to posts from theologically conservative christians? Are you saying they just delete everything contrary? I would be from a very conservative background and church-does that make me qualify?

In church today got a very good sermon and touched on illegal immigrants and the health issue and the Ft Hood shooting.

by: larg

11-15-2009 @ 12:55pm

I am a pediatrician. On a regular basis I encounter children who have experienced violence and bear the marks of it on their skin, bones and hearts. Often the presumed perpetrator of this violence accompanies the child. I have yet to figure out how Jesus would respond to these adults. Does anyone have suggestions for responding in a way that is transformative?

by: Jesdisciple

11-16-2009 @ 12:13am

Yeah, it's about Beck. There are several opinions to ask about there. I happen to be arguing against him.

I don't know whether you're theologically conservative based on background or church home... But there are some politically liberal Christians who post in that forum. You might want to PM one of the mods to ask.

In church today got a very good sermon and touched on illegal immigrants and the health issue and the Ft Hood shooting.

OK...?

by: kansasmennonite

11-16-2009 @ 12:27am

Don't want to go into many details on the sermon but the illegal immigrant issue and health care had personal stories today. Amazing how I'm more confortable with my current church which is more "liberal" than my home church (this liberal church split off from my local church 100 yrs ago because of location). Agreed with the pastor today and I would say that my conservative home church would disagree almost 100% (send the illegals home, no health reform, and blame the evil Muslim religion on the shooting).

by: MacArthur4

11-15-2009 @ 4:38pm

Well Charles thank you for clearing that up . Thre have been quite the mcoys hatfields that have made exchanging views and ideas quite challenging .

One of the reasons I liked the story above , we need to show the love of Christ to each other , if we don't how can we expect to show it to the world . had a Pastor once who told me Christians were the only ones who shoot their wounded.

Thanks for your reply ,

Mick

by: Jesdisciple

11-16-2009 @ 12:57am

I put another link in for their definition of conservative.

And those positions can be held without hate for anyone. Just like you aren't an unpatriotic America-hater. I'm sick of how polarized the parties and the media make everything.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-13-2009 @ 4:00pm

For example, I have posted many comments requesting Sojo to have contributors post a follow-up comment (at least a "Thanks for reading" message) on these blogs. This is like "Dialogue 101"--or maybe even Pre-Dialogue class.

Maybe you would join in this little tiny request

by: letjusticerolldown

11-13-2009 @ 4:00pm

For example, I have posted many comments requesting Sojo to have contributors post a follow-up comment (at least a "Thanks for reading" message) on these blogs. This is like "Dialogue 101"--or maybe even Pre-Dialogue class.

Maybe you would join in this little tiny request

by: MacArthur4

11-13-2009 @ 4:34pm

Beautiful story . The man was mirroring Christ.

How quickly we are to cast those in different cultures as narrow, hateful, and yet never take the time or love this man models for us to reach beyond the shadows.

by: MacArthur4

11-13-2009 @ 4:34pm

Beautiful story . The man was mirroring Christ.

How quickly we are to cast those in different cultures as narrow, hateful, and yet never take the time or love this man models for us to reach beyond the shadows.

by: Ngchen

11-13-2009 @ 5:02pm

I agree that a beautiful picture was presented. Julio Diaz was following Christ. Just be aware that not all, or even most such stories end in the way described. Alternative outcomes could easily have involved him being murdered for daring to stand up to the robber. SO, what do we do?

by: Ngchen

11-13-2009 @ 5:02pm

I agree that a beautiful picture was presented. Julio Diaz was following Christ. Just be aware that not all, or even most such stories end in the way described. Alternative outcomes could easily have involved him being murdered for daring to stand up to the robber. SO, what do we do?

by: Lord_Voldemort

11-13-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hate speech? What hate speech?

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

11-13-2009 @ 8:33pm

Hate speech? What hate speech?

LV

by: NC77

11-13-2009 @ 9:12pm

My take is the author believes that the hate speech is telling the truth and not being politically correct about the situation. She wrote...

"The would-be robber accepted the dinner invitation, and the conversation over dinner, through Diaz's masterful engagement with the teen and the teen's openness to listening, resulted in the teen returning the wallet and giving up his knife."

The teen repented. The teen was not a "would-be" robber, he was a robber, he is a criminal and committed a criminal act. If he had not committed a criminal act, there would be no need for him to repent and return the wallet. There is a political persuassion in this country that distorts the truth (and Christianity) and labels victims as wrongdoers, and the wrongdoers as victims.

That is not the truth of Jesus. One only has to look at the conversation of the two thieves crucified with Jesus to understand this. Which one wound up in paradise with Jesus that very day and why? The one who admitted he was deserving of the punishment he was receiving.

by: NC77

11-13-2009 @ 9:12pm

My take is the author believes that the hate speech is telling the truth and not being politically correct about the situation. She wrote...

"The would-be robber accepted the dinner invitation, and the conversation over dinner, through Diaz's masterful engagement with the teen and the teen's openness to listening, resulted in the teen returning the wallet and giving up his knife."

The teen repented. The teen was not a "would-be" robber, he was a robber, he is a criminal and committed a criminal act. If he had not committed a criminal act, there would be no need for him to repent and return the wallet. There is a political persuassion in this country that distorts the truth (and Christianity) and labels victims as wrongdoers, and the wrongdoers as victims.

That is not the truth of Jesus. One only has to look at the conversation of the two thieves crucified with Jesus to understand this. Which one wound up in paradise with Jesus that very day and why? The one who admitted he was deserving of the punishment he was receiving.

by: kansasmennonite

11-14-2009 @ 1:58am

Where have you been Lord? The hate speach is all around us.

It would do everyone good to follow the story and learn how to take the steps to achieve a 10. Learning how to deal with hate speach is a step along the way.

by: kansasmennonite

11-14-2009 @ 1:58am

Where have you been Lord? The hate speach is all around us.

It would do everyone good to follow the story and learn how to take the steps to achieve a 10. Learning how to deal with hate speach is a step along the way.

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 4:15am

"SO, what do we do?"

That is a good question, and I believe discernment is something may help us. But your right the person you are dealing with could be a socio path and Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered, but the messageI received and the encourgagement to try is to show the Love of Christ to the unlovable.

So maybe the answer is just do our best . But to keep this in our daily walk . ?

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 4:15am

"SO, what do we do?"

That is a good question, and I believe discernment is something may help us. But your right the person you are dealing with could be a socio path and Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered, but the messageI received and the encourgagement to try is to show the Love of Christ to the unlovable.

So maybe the answer is just do our best . But to keep this in our daily walk . ?

by: SamHamilton

11-14-2009 @ 1:14pm

I don't like that term either. It's so all-encompassing it means nothing. But the story she told is wonderful. I can only hope that put in a similar situation I would react the same way.

by: SamHamilton

11-14-2009 @ 1:14pm

I don't like that term either. It's so all-encompassing it means nothing. But the story she told is wonderful. I can only hope that put in a similar situation I would react the same way.

by: ckgmail

11-14-2009 @ 3:47pm

I occasionally leave comments on news stories and blogs. I try to be respectful of opposing opinions. Occasionally people with opinions opposed to mean turn insulting and disrespectful in their replies, nearly always anonymously. I think its important that we identify ourselves, and that we are respectful of other peoples' opinions, and that we not hide behind a cloak of anonymity.
I'm Charles Kiker. I live in small town Tulia, Texas.

by: ckgmail

11-14-2009 @ 3:47pm

I occasionally leave comments on news stories and blogs. I try to be respectful of opposing opinions. Occasionally people with opinions opposed to mean turn insulting and disrespectful in their replies, nearly always anonymously. I think its important that we identify ourselves, and that we are respectful of other peoples' opinions, and that we not hide behind a cloak of anonymity.
I'm Charles Kiker. I live in small town Tulia, Texas.

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 6:22pm

I have not noticed that . Your comments before about an incomplete Christian regarding a political /religious view of social justice show a respectful opinion that was lacking from my perspective in my pew. Obviously if your view of justice included paying to the treasurey of a government on an equal basic , say a percentage it would conflict with the people at the meeting using religion in the form of their idea of justice or scales and weights they use. I suggest to you the lives of our poor now , would be considered high rollers 150 years ago. Not that helping people is anyhtring you and I should disagree on , but who receives and who gives is a problem that should be discussed with God as our ref ? Ok ?

The meat of the matter is that I can respect a persons view in say socialism , communism , it is the comment that your politics somehow have any kind of religious link with God I find offensive and actually makes God smaller .

Of course we are to support justice , help the poor , not worship idols. We can agree on that / but me speaking to your faith as being incomplete if you taking the money from one without their consent to give to another is equally as wrong . The religious left limits itself from speaking to issues with Evangelicals because they limit the tolerance and respect all people of Faith should show one another. What happens if a person agrees with 50 percent of that conference you supported , is half of their faith incomplete ?

The problem is you do not see that . So instead of joing in unity , where as perhaps we could join in prayer , unity , in furthering the Kingdom , you chose to define another believer by your culturally acceptable belief of being a fullfilled Christian . You may be filled with the spirit my friend , but its not your politics that have caused this . The spirit may encourgage you in your wanting to help, and i admire that . But you being able to see that perhaps your wrong , or even acknowledge and respect another believer may disagree with you would be a more Bibical approach of Justcie from understanding of who God wants us to be like.

I know many people on the right who are indeed spirit Filled and doing the works of God with the those less fortunate then us , yet their politics do not define them, their God , I hope "Our" God does.
When those good people i know used their faith to compel polics , it appeared intolerant and empty to me . No difference when the left does it. t in fact appears to damage the Kingdom . If that is possible , and I would suggest it really is not , thus hurts those who are doing it more and those unbelievers who may be caused to dismiss the Gospel because of the emptiness of it.

Perhaps look at the wording of the political religious meeting you commented on , are you saying social justice has nothing to do with the issues that they chose not to speak to , that perhaps supporting the issues you felt were important could not cause another believer consicience , his relationship with God to be compromised ? You don't undersdtand that ? That our conscience being given up to political pressure to conform is what has always been the sin of the religious political movement of social justice.

Mick

by: MacArthur4

11-14-2009 @ 6:22pm

I have not noticed that . Your comments before about an incomplete Christian regarding a political /religious view of social justice show a respectful opinion that was lacking from my perspective in my pew. Obviously if your view of justice included paying to the treasurey of a government on an equal basic , say a percentage it would conflict with the people at the meeting using religion in the form of their idea of justice or scales and weights they use. I suggest to you the lives of our poor now , would be considered high rollers 150 years ago. Not that helping people is anyhtring you and I should disagree on , but who receives and who gives is a problem that should be discussed with God as our ref ? Ok ?

The meat of the matter is that I can respect a persons view in say socialism , communism , it is the comment that your politics somehow have any kind of religious link with God I find offensive and actually makes God smaller .

Of course we are to support justice , help the poor , not worship idols. We can agree on that / but me speaking to your faith as being incomplete if you taking the money from one without their consent to give to another is equally as wrong . The religious left limits itself from speaking to issues with Evangelicals because they limit the tolerance and respect all people of Faith should show one another. What happens if a person agrees with 50 percent of that conference you supported , is half of their faith incomplete ?

The problem is you do not see that . So instead of joing in unity , where as perhaps we could join in prayer , unity , in furthering the Kingdom , you chose to define another believer by your culturally acceptable belief of being a fullfilled Christian . You may be filled with the spirit my friend , but its not your politics that have caused this . The spirit may encourgage you in your wanting to help, and i admire that . But you being able to see that perhaps your wrong , or even acknowledge and respect another believer may disagree with you would be a more Bibical approach of Justcie from understanding of who God wants us to be like.

I know many people on the right who are indeed spirit Filled and doing the works of God with the those less fortunate then us , yet their politics do not define them, their God , I hope "Our" God does.
When those good people i know used their faith to compel polics , it appeared intolerant and empty to me . No difference when the left does it. t in fact appears to damage the Kingdom . If that is possible , and I would suggest it really is not , thus hurts those who are doing it more and those unbelievers who may be caused to dismiss the Gospel because of the emptiness of it.

Perhaps look at the wording of the political religious meeting you commented on , are you saying social justice has nothing to do with the issues that they chose not to speak to , that perhaps supporting the issues you felt were important could not cause another believer consicience , his relationship with God to be compromised ? You don't undersdtand that ? That our conscience being given up to political pressure to conform is what has always been the sin of the religious political movement of social justice.

Mick

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 12:29pm

Mick, you are attributing things to me that I did not say or even imply. I did not use the phrase "incomplete Chrisitan." (Although I would readily acknowledge that I am one.) What I meant by my original very brief comment was that Evangelism w/o social justice represents an incomplete faith. (Again, I readily acknowledge that my faith is not complete, although I am approaching 76 years of age and have been a confessed Christian for about 66 of those years, have been an ordained minister for 48 years, and have about 10 years of formal religious instruction, including a Ph. D. in Biblical languages.) But I still learn. I am learning from you even now that when I post I need to be more precise in my statements.

You are responding to two of my posts. In the most recent I am echoing the need to show respect. In so doing I meant no disrespect to you. Commenters on this blog manage to express disagreement w/o being nasty about it. Comments I read on line in secular newspapers are frequently mean spirited. A recent comment, written anonymously, attacked the writer of an LTE for using a false name. Whether the writer did or did not use a false name, I do not know. But the commenter DID write anonymously.

We are one in the Lord, whether we want to be or not!

Charles Kiker

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 12:29pm

Mick, you are attributing things to me that I did not say or even imply. I did not use the phrase "incomplete Chrisitan." (Although I would readily acknowledge that I am one.) What I meant by my original very brief comment was that Evangelism w/o social justice represents an incomplete faith. (Again, I readily acknowledge that my faith is not complete, although I am approaching 76 years of age and have been a confessed Christian for about 66 of those years, have been an ordained minister for 48 years, and have about 10 years of formal religious instruction, including a Ph. D. in Biblical languages.) But I still learn. I am learning from you even now that when I post I need to be more precise in my statements.

You are responding to two of my posts. In the most recent I am echoing the need to show respect. In so doing I meant no disrespect to you. Commenters on this blog manage to express disagreement w/o being nasty about it. Comments I read on line in secular newspapers are frequently mean spirited. A recent comment, written anonymously, attacked the writer of an LTE for using a false name. Whether the writer did or did not use a false name, I do not know. But the commenter DID write anonymously.

We are one in the Lord, whether we want to be or not!

Charles Kiker

by: larg

11-15-2009 @ 12:55pm

I am a pediatrician. On a regular basis I encounter children who have experienced violence and bear the marks of it on their skin, bones and hearts. Often the presumed perpetrator of this violence accompanies the child. I have yet to figure out how Jesus would respond to these adults. Does anyone have suggestions for responding in a way that is transformative?

by: larg

11-15-2009 @ 12:55pm

I am a pediatrician. On a regular basis I encounter children who have experienced violence and bear the marks of it on their skin, bones and hearts. Often the presumed perpetrator of this violence accompanies the child. I have yet to figure out how Jesus would respond to these adults. Does anyone have suggestions for responding in a way that is transformative?

by: MacArthur4

11-15-2009 @ 4:38pm

Well Charles thank you for clearing that up . Thre have been quite the mcoys hatfields that have made exchanging views and ideas quite challenging .

One of the reasons I liked the story above , we need to show the love of Christ to each other , if we don't how can we expect to show it to the world . had a Pastor once who told me Christians were the only ones who shoot their wounded.

Thanks for your reply ,

Mick

by: MacArthur4

11-15-2009 @ 4:38pm

Well Charles thank you for clearing that up . Thre have been quite the mcoys hatfields that have made exchanging views and ideas quite challenging .

One of the reasons I liked the story above , we need to show the love of Christ to each other , if we don't how can we expect to show it to the world . had a Pastor once who told me Christians were the only ones who shoot their wounded.

Thanks for your reply ,

Mick

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 6:17pm

We need to be able to exchange views. Thanks for your response. Charles

by: ckgmail

11-15-2009 @ 6:17pm

We need to be able to exchange views. Thanks for your response. Charles

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:18pm

Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered

While I would be reluctant too, this is at least partly false. The best of us get murdered in Scripture all the time for actually preaching. I have trouble seeing any relevant difference...

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:18pm

Christ would not have us doing something to be murdered

While I would be reluctant too, this is at least partly false. The best of us get murdered in Scripture all the time for actually preaching. I have trouble seeing any relevant difference...

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:28pm

I agree with your second paragraph, but the definition used by many liberals for "hate speech" is indeed very broad. I haven't looked into it enough to argue about Rush and friends yet, but I have to suggest finding a Christian conservative forum to ask this kind of thing in. Visiting the other side and seriously listening really does help; I'm currently learning a lot on other topics from conservatives who adamantly object to my vision of how politics should work.

Here's a good example, although the area is only open to posts from theologically conservative Christians: http://www.christianforums.com/t7339321/ That board has a forum for general politics as well.

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:28pm

I agree with your second paragraph, but the definition used by many liberals for "hate speech" is indeed very broad. I haven't looked into it enough to argue about Rush and friends yet, but I have to suggest finding a Christian conservative forum to ask this kind of thing in. Visiting the other side and seriously listening really does help; I'm currently learning a lot on other topics from conservatives who adamantly object to my vision of how politics should work.

Here's a good example, although the area is only open to posts from theologically conservative Christians: http://www.christianforums.com/t7339321/ That board has a forum for general politics as well.

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:43pm

That is one tough question... I guess I'd try to get the parent alone and gently bring the topic up if they seem relatively open to talking about it, or you could give your pastor an anonymous tip. Otherwise, or if that doesn't work, you've got to call CPS.

by: Jesdisciple

11-15-2009 @ 11:43pm

That is one tough question... I guess I'd try to get the parent alone and gently bring the topic up if they seem relatively open to talking about it, or you could give your pastor an anonymous tip. Otherwise, or if that doesn't work, you've got to call CPS.

by: kansasmennonite

11-15-2009 @ 11:44pm

I used your url and got a post talking about Beck and Hannity. What do you mean by only open to posts from theologically conservative christians? Are you saying they just delete everything contrary? I would be from a very conservative background and church-does that make me qualify?

In church today got a very good sermon and touched on illegal immigrants and the health issue and the Ft Hood shooting.

by: kansasmennonite

11-15-2009 @ 11:44pm

I used your url and got a post talking about Beck and Hannity. What do you mean by only open to posts from theologically conservative christians? Are you saying they just delete everything contrary? I would be from a very conservative background and church-does that make me qualify?

In church today got a very good sermon and touched on illegal immigrants and the health issue and the Ft Hood shooting.

by: Jesdisciple

11-16-2009 @ 12:13am

Yeah, it's about Beck. There are several opinions to ask about there. I happen to be arguing against him.

I don't know whether you're theologically conservative based on background or church home... But there are some politically liberal Christians who post in that forum. You might want to PM one of the mods to ask.

In church today got a very good sermon and touched on illegal immigrants and the health issue and the Ft Hood shooting.

OK...?

by: Jesdisciple

11-16-2009 @ 12:13am

Yeah, it's about Beck. There are several opinions to ask about there. I happen to be arguing against him.

I don't know whether you're theologically conservative based on background or church home... But there are some politically liberal Christians who post in that forum. You might want to PM one of the mods to ask.

In church today got a very good sermon and touched on illegal immigrants and the health issue and the Ft Hood shooting.

OK...?

by: kansasmennonite

11-16-2009 @ 12:27am

Don't want to go into many details on the sermon but the illegal immigrant issue and health care had personal stories today. Amazing how I'm more confortable with my current church which is more "liberal" than my home church (this liberal church split off from my local church 100 yrs ago because of location). Agreed with the pastor today and I would say that my conservative home church would disagree almost 100% (send the illegals home, no health reform, and blame the evil Muslim religion on the shooting).

by: kansasmennonite

11-16-2009 @ 12:27am

Don't want to go into many details on the sermon but the illegal immigrant issue and health care had personal stories today. Amazing how I'm more confortable with my current church which is more "liberal" than my home church (this liberal church split off from my local church 100 yrs ago because of location). Agreed with the pastor today and I would say that my conservative home church would disagree almost 100% (send the illegals home, no health reform, and blame the evil Muslim religion on the shooting).

by: Jesdisciple

11-16-2009 @ 12:57am

I put another link in for their definition of conservative.

And those positions can be held without hate for anyone. Just like you aren't an unpatriotic America-hater. I'm sick of how polarized the parties and the media make everything.

by: Jesdisciple

11-16-2009 @ 12:57am

I put another link in for their definition of conservative.

And those positions can be held without hate for anyone. Just like you aren't an unpatriotic America-hater. I'm sick of how polarized the parties and the media make everything.

by: MacArthur4

11-16-2009 @ 7:10am

The best of us get murdered in Scripture all the time for actually preaching. I have trouble seeing any relevant difference...

Good point . But also the desciples knew when to shake the dust from their sandals and move on . And they did not always when confronted preach the Gospel or mirror what the story tells above. At times Christ was confronted by angry people and moved out of the way of the confrontation.

by: MacArthur4

11-16-2009 @ 7:10am

The best of us get murdered in Scripture all the time for actually preaching. I have trouble seeing any relevant difference...

Good point . But also the desciples knew when to shake the dust from their sandals and move on . And they did not always when confronted preach the Gospel or mirror what the story tells above. At times Christ was confronted by angry people and moved out of the way of the confrontation.

by: Chris "Jesdisciple"

11-16-2009 @ 10:48pm

They already knew what he had to offer. No use throwing pearls to swine.

by: Chris "Jesdisciple"

11-16-2009 @ 10:48pm

They already knew what he had to offer. No use throwing pearls to swine.

by: scat

11-17-2009 @ 3:25am

I don't think it is necessary to be faced with a knife-weilding person to deal with this issue.In my journey with Jesus, I am convinced that pacifism is his ultimate hope for us. I am committed to becoming more like him than me and pacifism also logically appeals to me. Since I tend to have a wee bit of a temper, it is a daily challenge -- not honking at the fool that just cut in front of me, not snarling back at a foolish inadvertant insult, not tearing to shreds a person exhibiting prejudice, etc.
In other words, I believe it is a way of life, a way of living, not just an issue that arises in extreme circumstances. And when such a dramatic situation arises, if you have lived this way, it will be a normal reaction to respond with good will rather than violence. To live otherwise would be a rejection of faith in God, it would be saying His way is not the right way.And it is not result dependent.

by: scat

11-17-2009 @ 3:25am

I don't think it is necessary to be faced with a knife-weilding person to deal with this issue.In my journey with Jesus, I am convinced that pacifism is his ultimate hope for us. I am committed to becoming more like him than me and pacifism also logically appeals to me. Since I tend to have a wee bit of a temper, it is a daily challenge -- not honking at the fool that just cut in front of me, not snarling back at a foolish inadvertant insult, not tearing to shreds a person exhibiting prejudice, etc.
In other words, I believe it is a way of life, a way of living, not just an issue that arises in extreme circumstances. And when such a dramatic situation arises, if you have lived this way, it will be a normal reaction to respond with good will rather than violence. To live otherwise would be a rejection of faith in God, it would be saying His way is not the right way.And it is not result dependent.

by: scottvolltrauer

11-17-2009 @ 1:57pm

"with the help of other like-minded people, I can begin to practice that third way in the myriad situations I encounter every day, and begin to build up my third way muscles. And in the unlikely event that I am ever confronted with a "10" situation, as Diaz was, I just might be able to rise to the occasion."

Yes, and with love and and an intimate sense of common purpose "while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people...each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved."

mysilentscream.com

by: scottvolltrauer

11-17-2009 @ 1:57pm

"with the help of other like-minded people, I can begin to practice that third way in the myriad situations I encounter every day, and begin to build up my third way muscles. And in the unlikely event that I am ever confronted with a "10" situation, as Diaz was, I just might be able to rise to the occasion."

Yes, and with love and and an intimate sense of common purpose "while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people...each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved."

mysilentscream.com