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Christians Must Find a More Christ-like Symbol than 'Crusaders'

091120-crusadersImagine for a minute the fallout were a Muslim high school in America to choose for its mascot "the Jihadists."

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In that light, how do you think Muslims (or Jews) view Christian schools whose mascot is "the Crusaders?"

I'm no expert on interfaith reconciliation, but it occurs to me that perhaps minimally, Christian schools should pick a new mascot if theirs is based on the bloody 200-year assault on Muslims -- a series of events that would sour relations between the two faiths for centuries to come.

Consisting of nine campaigns from 1095 to 1291, the Crusades were waged by Western European Christians mainly to seize control of Muslim lands, especially The Holy Land. In fact, "crusades" literally translates "war of the cross." The Church sanctioned and even blessed these campaigns, offering Crusaders penance for past sins to kill their enemies on behalf of their faith. Muslims and Jews were told to convert or die, and unspeakable atrocities were performed in the name of religion. Conservative estimates put the number of dead well into the millions.

In his three-volume A History of The Crusades, British historian Sir Stephen Runciman summed it up this way: "High ideals were besmirched by cruelty and greed

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by: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari

12-20-2009 @ 2:14pm

As a member of the Society of Friends, I find it also disturbing how Quakers are used at times as a mascot, with the accompanying chants, "Fight, Quakers, Fight!"

The Crusades were horrible. No doubt about it. All the more horrible because we, as Christians, should have known better. Our master and prophet called us to turn towards peace, at all costs. But it should not be removed from its historic place. The crusades were a grave over-compensatory response to the jihad of Muslim invasion, which, despite the propaganda, was not quite as welcomed and peaceful as many Muslim leaders would like to now portray. Yes, Christians in the Middle East didn't like the way they were treated by their rulers, in Rome and Constantine- and the same was doubly true of the Jews. But the Muslim Conquest was welcomed "with open arms" only when those conquered peoples realized you live longer if you do that. Yes, Muslims treated their minority peoples - dhimmi - much better than the so-called Christian rulers. But both pale in comparison to modern human rights standards of equality- and sadly the dhimmi mentality and treatment continues in many Middle Eastern countries to this day. All that said, when the Muslims conquered by the sword (with conversion rarely by the sword excepting in India, and more often through prejudicial economic policies), they were merely following their prophet's (pbuh) words and actions. Not so when we did the same and worse- we decided to do the exact opposite of our prophet.

Lastly, and related to the above, the other group that could rightly object to the use of Crusaders as a school mascot are all of the Orthodox churches and schools in America- for the Orthodox Christians were the target of more than one Crusade. It wasn't "the Christians" attacking- it was Western Christians attacking anyone who got in their way. The Crusades were never more than nominally about religion. They were about money and greed and land and oppression- and mostly about hate.

And that's what I remember when I see an image of a Crusader mascot.

by: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari

12-20-2009 @ 2:08pm

As a member of the Society of Friends, I find it also disturbing how Quakers are used at times as a mascot, with the accompanying chants, "Fight, Quakers, Fight!"

The Crusades were horrible. No doubt about it. All the more horrible because we, as Christians, should have known better. Our master and prophet called us to turn towards peace, at all costs. But it should not be removed from its historic place. The crusades were a grave over-compensatory response to the jihad of Muslim invasion, which, despite the propaganda, was not quite as welcomed and peaceful as many Muslim leaders would like to now portray. Yes, Christians in the Middle East didn't like the way they were treated by their rulers, in Rome and Constantine- and the same was doubly true of the Jews. But the Muslim Conquest was welcomed "with open arms" only when those conquered peoples realized you live longer if you do that. Yes, Muslims treated their minority peoples - dhimmi - much better than the so-called Christian rulers. But both pale in comparison to modern human rights standards of equality- and sadly the dhimmi mentality and treatment continues in many Middle Eastern countries to this day. All that said, when the Muslims conquered by the sword (with conversion rarely by the sword excepting in India, and more often through prejudicial economic policies), they were merely following their prophet's (pbuh) words and actions. Not so when we did the same and worse- we decided to do the exact opposite of our prophet.

Lastly, and related to the above, the other group that could rightly object to the use of Crusaders as a school mascot are all of the Orthodox churches and schools in America- for the Orthodox Christians were the target of more than one Crusade. It wasn't "the Christians" attacking- it was Western Christians attacking anyone who got in their way. The Crusades were never more than nominally about religion. They were about money and greed and land and oppression- and mostly about hate.

And that's what I remember when I see an image of a Crusader mascot.

by: Nikky Wood

12-02-2009 @ 2:20pm

Steve, thank you for writing this article. I went to a Catholic elementary school where we were "the Crusaders," and yet I don't remember ever being taught about the Crusades in the 8 years I was there. Shouldn't our mascots be something we are proud of? Something that makes us actually want to tell our children where their mascot came from? (Although of course I think we should teach more church history-- even, and especially, parts we're not proud of-- but that's a different discussion.)

by: steveholt

12-02-2009 @ 1:38pm

Also, I agree with some of the commenters who point out other militaristic imagery in the Christian world. Like I told the first commenter, I chose to narrow my focus in this column to school mascots, but I could have just as easily addressed any number of other areas where Christians seem obsessed with war (spiritual / physical or otherwise), battle, armor, and other militaristic images. Given the times in which we live, we ought to go back to the drawing board on many of those things. Like I mention, this goes way beyond mere "political correctness." To minimize it to such misses the point completely. Thanks again for reading. Pass this along if you like it.

by: steveholt

12-02-2009 @ 1:34pm

Glad to see so many comments. I can't respond to every one, but I would like to address the commenter who claimed that the Crusades weren't a Christian event. I would agree that every war is political, but the Crusades especially (meaning: "War of the Cross") pitted religion against religion in order to achieve a political and imperialist objective. It absolutely was a Christian event (and a Muslim event and a Jewish event), and it was a disgrace. Some people have not and never will give faith a second look because of such blots on our history.

To name a mascot after this blot is beyond me.

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-01-2009 @ 2:41am

What about Salvation Army?

Many folks believe that it is just a faith-based Christian service organization.

But, it is actually a church denomination and has its own church buildings where its actual members worship.

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-01-2009 @ 2:38am

The late Billy Jame Hargis had a program which he called "Christian Crusade."

In more recent times, Metro Christian Academy in Tulsa has as its mascot, the Patriot and the school's logo is a shield with a cross on it. It is connected with the "no musical instruments in the worship service" Church of Christ.

But, the school has a band that plays at home football games and I know that because I used to live a little over a block from the school.

by: Dale Fincher

11-30-2009 @ 7:57pm

We've been shaking our heads about this for a while now... I'm glad more people are addressing it. Though some could argue historically that the Muslims instigated the battles in the Middle Ages that we call the "Crusades" (thus, giving Crusades a connotation as ones who defends the innocent and oppressed) the name is simply tacky and has been for a long time.

So is most battle language when it comes to talking about our faith. "Culture War" is another one (though Davidson coined the term, Christians keep using it). Since most people don't know that a lot of battle language in the New Testament refers to spiritual battles, we're better off leaving all war talk off the table in today's perceived religiously war-torn world.

And, while we are at it, we can talk about how many mascots in Christian schools use verses out of context, like "Eagles" (Isa 40:31... as if the verse promises victories or strength in organized athletic competitions!)....

by: BluegrassOhio

11-30-2009 @ 7:35pm

I know plenty of conservatives who think the Crusader image is mild and would prefer the sword dripping with blood from the "enemy." They seem to make gains by villifying others I suppose.

by: BluegrassOhio

11-30-2009 @ 7:31pm

Duplicate post, sorry

by: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari

12-20-2009 @ 4:14pm

As a member of the Society of Friends, I find it also disturbing how Quakers are used at times as a mascot, with the accompanying chants, "Fight, Quakers, Fight!"

The Crusades were horrible. No doubt about it. All the more horrible because we, as Christians, should have known better. Our master and prophet called us to turn towards peace, at all costs. But it should not be removed from its historic place. The crusades were a grave over-compensatory response to the jihad of Muslim invasion, which, despite the propaganda, was not quite as welcomed and peaceful as many Muslim leaders would like to now portray. Yes, Christians in the Middle East didn't like the way they were treated by their rulers, in Rome and Constantine- and the same was doubly true of the Jews. But the Muslim Conquest was welcomed "with open arms" only when those conquered peoples realized you live longer if you do that. Yes, Muslims treated their minority peoples - dhimmi - much better than the so-called Christian rulers. But both pale in comparison to modern human rights standards of equality- and sadly the dhimmi mentality and treatment continues in many Middle Eastern countries to this day. All that said, when the Muslims conquered by the sword (with conversion rarely by the sword excepting in India, and more often through prejudicial economic policies), they were merely following their prophet's (pbuh) words and actions. Not so when we did the same and worse- we decided to do the exact opposite of our prophet.

Lastly, and related to the above, the other group that could rightly object to the use of Crusaders as a school mascot are all of the Orthodox churches and schools in America- for the Orthodox Christians were the target of more than one Crusade. It wasn't "the Christians" attacking- it was Western Christians attacking anyone who got in their way. The Crusades were never more than nominally about religion. They were about money and greed and land and oppression- and mostly about hate.

And that's what I remember when I see an image of a Crusader mascot.

by: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari

12-20-2009 @ 4:08pm

As a member of the Society of Friends, I find it also disturbing how Quakers are used at times as a mascot, with the accompanying chants, "Fight, Quakers, Fight!"

The Crusades were horrible. No doubt about it. All the more horrible because we, as Christians, should have known better. Our master and prophet called us to turn towards peace, at all costs. But it should not be removed from its historic place. The crusades were a grave over-compensatory response to the jihad of Muslim invasion, which, despite the propaganda, was not quite as welcomed and peaceful as many Muslim leaders would like to now portray. Yes, Christians in the Middle East didn't like the way they were treated by their rulers, in Rome and Constantine- and the same was doubly true of the Jews. But the Muslim Conquest was welcomed "with open arms" only when those conquered peoples realized you live longer if you do that. Yes, Muslims treated their minority peoples - dhimmi - much better than the so-called Christian rulers. But both pale in comparison to modern human rights standards of equality- and sadly the dhimmi mentality and treatment continues in many Middle Eastern countries to this day. All that said, when the Muslims conquered by the sword (with conversion rarely by the sword excepting in India, and more often through prejudicial economic policies), they were merely following their prophet's (pbuh) words and actions. Not so when we did the same and worse- we decided to do the exact opposite of our prophet.

Lastly, and related to the above, the other group that could rightly object to the use of Crusaders as a school mascot are all of the Orthodox churches and schools in America- for the Orthodox Christians were the target of more than one Crusade. It wasn't "the Christians" attacking- it was Western Christians attacking anyone who got in their way. The Crusades were never more than nominally about religion. They were about money and greed and land and oppression- and mostly about hate.

And that's what I remember when I see an image of a Crusader mascot.

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 1:20pm

And what about city wide evangelistic "crusades"? And "Campus Crusade" for that matter?

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 5:47pm

ckgmail - I would have loved to address the other Christian uses for "crusades" in this piece, but I needed to narrow my focus. I do believe the term "crusade" has worn out its welcome and lost nearly all the meaning it once had. (in our pluralistic society) I think it should be dropped completely out of our lexicon.

And I know that Campus Crusade's name is offensive to many. A friend of mine attended a university with a CC chapter back before he knew much about Christianity and was utterly appalled that a group would choose that name. He said it is still a huge turn-off for him even though he identifies with Christianity now more than he used to.

That's a whole 'nother essay, though.

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 7:36pm

Steve, Thanks for doing what you did. I was not rebuking you for not covering these other "crusades," just adding my two cents worth. (Two cents is probably a little more than the market value.) I note you are from East Boston and love gardening. I too like to garden, in a much less hospitable climate (Texas Panhandle) but I do manage to grow a few tomatoes and some other produce. My granddaughter, Lydia Bean, just graduated (PhD) from Harvard in June. She is a justice person, so wonder if you might have met.
Charles Kiker, Tulia, Texas

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

I think I know of your daughter from the Boston Faith & Justice Network, of which we were a part several years ago. Small world!

Thanks for the kind comment!

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

granddaughter -- sorry.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 1:20pm

And what about city wide evangelistic "crusades"? And "Campus Crusade" for that matter?

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: Mennoman

11-28-2009 @ 4:01am

Be gone with them too.

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 5:47pm

ckgmail - I would have loved to address the other Christian uses for "crusades" in this piece, but I needed to narrow my focus. I do believe the term "crusade" has worn out its welcome and lost nearly all the meaning it once had. (in our pluralistic society) I think it should be dropped completely out of our lexicon.

And I know that Campus Crusade's name is offensive to many. A friend of mine attended a university with a CC chapter back before he knew much about Christianity and was utterly appalled that a group would choose that name. He said it is still a huge turn-off for him even though he identifies with Christianity now more than he used to.

That's a whole 'nother essay, though.

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 7:36pm

Steve, Thanks for doing what you did. I was not rebuking you for not covering these other "crusades," just adding my two cents worth. (Two cents is probably a little more than the market value.) I note you are from East Boston and love gardening. I too like to garden, in a much less hospitable climate (Texas Panhandle) but I do manage to grow a few tomatoes and some other produce. My granddaughter, Lydia Bean, just graduated (PhD) from Harvard in June. She is a justice person, so wonder if you might have met.
Charles Kiker, Tulia, Texas

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:53am

Remember you are only allowed 3 seconds in the foul lane on a double post ;)

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

I think I know of your daughter from the Boston Faith & Justice Network, of which we were a part several years ago. Small world!

Thanks for the kind comment!

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:50pm

No issue here with asking for different mascots. Moving past that: What if the cross offends? What if militaristic images offend? What if American imagery or references offend? What if English language offends? What if the Bible offends? What if Jesus offends?

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

granddaughter -- sorry.

by: JoannaCW

11-28-2009 @ 2:45pm

I know, sometimes they do. And then we have two things to figure out: Does the thing which offends them have a true and positive meaning which speaks to us? If not, then we should probably drop it; if yes, then I think we need to keep using what we find helpfulk but also try and find out where the offense comes from. I have sometimes offended people by voicing, and trying to live by, an understanding of Jesus' message which challenged some of their comforts. Then there's a real challenge to be dealt with carefully. Sometimes people have been offended by my use of Christian language because they associated it with something else (anti-Semitism, homophobia...) which I also would object to; a little time spent listening can clarify this.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 7:17pm

"Imagine for a minute the fallout were a Muslim high school in America to choose for its mascot "the Jihadists"

Good grief , how many people do you know use the term religious right ? Religious left ? But Crusades is one of how many words in todays world that has lost its meaning . Ever read the original King James Version ?

if a kids says math Sucks it is a total different meaning to someone quite older. Some people believe the American Flag is a symbol of imperialism , some think it represents choice and freedom.
Want to leave it out of the 4th of July parades / because it may offend some Englishmen ?
How many people see words like family values as abusive because some of the people associated with it were actually quite rude, but how many times have you seen people who mock family values because they have none.

Words are important , But a kids crusade where they go and learn about Jesus and Love , learn bible verses and what is means to Follow Jesus , this seems more important then what you are speaking to . Promote all kids living in a culture where their parents can go and worship and not be the portrayal of a someone who hides bomb on their person or someone who only has a narrow point of view and you have my attention .
otherwise you look like your picking and choosing , and only concerned about a politically correct group, which I guess is why the term politically correct was started . ;0)

.

by: ckgmail

11-28-2009 @ 8:26pm

Let justice, crusade is in an offensive category all by itself with the abuses during the crusades.

by: Mennoman

11-28-2009 @ 4:01am

Be gone with them too.

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:53am

Remember you are only allowed 3 seconds in the foul lane on a double post ;)

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 4:21am

I think the distinction is the Cross is the center of our faith. The Crusades are not. Nor are militaristic images. Or the English language. The Bible--just outside the center of our faith with Jesus smack dab in the middle simultaneously occupying that space with God and the Holy Spirit. If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto.

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love. Seems to me we are more often hated because we don't reflect Christ's love. But rather than seeing that as a wake-up call, I have heard people shrug at their bad behavior and justify it with a dismissive comment like, "this is what Jesus meant when He said we would be hated because of Him." Let us be hated for our authentic, Christ-like love.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:50pm

No issue here with asking for different mascots. Moving past that: What if the cross offends? What if militaristic images offend? What if American imagery or references offend? What if English language offends? What if the Bible offends? What if Jesus offends?

by: JoannaCW

11-28-2009 @ 2:45pm

I know, sometimes they do. And then we have two things to figure out: Does the thing which offends them have a true and positive meaning which speaks to us? If not, then we should probably drop it; if yes, then I think we need to keep using what we find helpfulk but also try and find out where the offense comes from. I have sometimes offended people by voicing, and trying to live by, an understanding of Jesus' message which challenged some of their comforts. Then there's a real challenge to be dealt with carefully. Sometimes people have been offended by my use of Christian language because they associated it with something else (anti-Semitism, homophobia...) which I also would object to; a little time spent listening can clarify this.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 7:17pm

"Imagine for a minute the fallout were a Muslim high school in America to choose for its mascot "the Jihadists"

Good grief , how many people do you know use the term religious right ? Religious left ? But Crusades is one of how many words in todays world that has lost its meaning . Ever read the original King James Version ?

if a kids says math Sucks it is a total different meaning to someone quite older. Some people believe the American Flag is a symbol of imperialism , some think it represents choice and freedom.
Want to leave it out of the 4th of July parades / because it may offend some Englishmen ?
How many people see words like family values as abusive because some of the people associated with it were actually quite rude, but how many times have you seen people who mock family values because they have none.

Words are important , But a kids crusade where they go and learn about Jesus and Love , learn bible verses and what is means to Follow Jesus , this seems more important then what you are speaking to . Promote all kids living in a culture where their parents can go and worship and not be the portrayal of a someone who hides bomb on their person or someone who only has a narrow point of view and you have my attention .
otherwise you look like your picking and choosing , and only concerned about a politically correct group, which I guess is why the term politically correct was started . ;0)

.

by: ckgmail

11-28-2009 @ 8:26pm

Let justice, crusade is in an offensive category all by itself with the abuses during the crusades.

by: scat

11-29-2009 @ 10:29pm

Seems to me it's about more than what offends other people. It's also about what kind of symbols should be representing the Prince of Peace. I find anything warlike, physical weapon, menacing, etc, to be a poor representation of what Christ was and what Christians should strive to
emulate. A sword and shield do not represent a message of love.

by: Ashley Renee

11-30-2009 @ 4:19am

Speaking as someone who never thought much about it: I agree with the sentiments of this article completely. That said, I must say that whenever I've seen the "Christian Solider" portrayed I've thought of the full armor of God and waging spiritual warfare on the powers of darkness - not on men. I never, until now, connected the atrocities of the historical crusades with the images I was seeing.

Perhaps I was simply conditioned that way, perhaps that's the mindset many people have when they choose those logos.

Thank you, Mr. Holt, for bringing this up and I encourage people to spread this message. If it insults without need ("If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto." -Squeaky) and thereby keeps people in need of God at bay, we not only should but must reconsider our choice.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 4:21am

I think the distinction is the Cross is the center of our faith. The Crusades are not. Nor are militaristic images. Or the English language. The Bible--just outside the center of our faith with Jesus smack dab in the middle simultaneously occupying that space with God and the Holy Spirit. If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto.

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love. Seems to me we are more often hated because we don't reflect Christ's love. But rather than seeing that as a wake-up call, I have heard people shrug at their bad behavior and justify it with a dismissive comment like, "this is what Jesus meant when He said we would be hated because of Him." Let us be hated for our authentic, Christ-like love.

by: Weiwen Ng

11-30-2009 @ 2:17pm

If they aren't changing their name, then they clearly aren't really aware of how bad it is.

by: robenbtaglienti

11-30-2009 @ 2:25pm

I am less concerned with the use of the word "Crusades" and more concerned with your interpretation of The Crusades and how you've limited you view of the event in such a way as to redefine history.

by: quaker

11-30-2009 @ 3:24pm

I agree with robenbtag... the crusades werent a christian event. It was pushed as such to give it appeal. Nothing to do with christians. those that feel this way make it that way. the word doesnt mean military and such. it was used that way but doesnt mean that. when people stop thinking so shallowly and negatively we might get some where. political correctness has been a horrible thing. Gone way to far with it.

by: sgillesp

11-30-2009 @ 4:13pm

I disagree with Robenbtag and quaker - the Crusades were certainly a "Christian" event, although they were also certainly a "Christendom" event. The word of God was abused and illiterate Christians were persuaded that this was what God wanted from them. Those cultures who were on the killing end of those spears still remember the brutality, and it's not their fault if they don't understand that the Crusades didn't represent what our Lord taught us to do. It's not about being politically correct - it's about not building obstacles that prevent someone from ever hearing who Jesus is, before we even start talking. There's no good reason to name your school's team the Crusaders, and many good reasons not to - so what purpose does it serve to defend it?

by: scat

11-29-2009 @ 10:29pm

Seems to me it's about more than what offends other people. It's also about what kind of symbols should be representing the Prince of Peace. I find anything warlike, physical weapon, menacing, etc, to be a poor representation of what Christ was and what Christians should strive to
emulate. A sword and shield do not represent a message of love.

by: Ashley Renee

11-30-2009 @ 4:19am

Speaking as someone who never thought much about it: I agree with the sentiments of this article completely. That said, I must say that whenever I've seen the "Christian Solider" portrayed I've thought of the full armor of God and waging spiritual warfare on the powers of darkness - not on men. I never, until now, connected the atrocities of the historical crusades with the images I was seeing.

Perhaps I was simply conditioned that way, perhaps that's the mindset many people have when they choose those logos.

Thank you, Mr. Holt, for bringing this up and I encourage people to spread this message. If it insults without need ("If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto." -Squeaky) and thereby keeps people in need of God at bay, we not only should but must reconsider our choice.

by: xfree9

11-30-2009 @ 6:00pm

It's not easy to change a name that old... but personally I don't think that's a good excuse.

by: MacArthur4

11-30-2009 @ 6:03pm

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love

Well said , I know many for instances of people who take political stands that show so much vitrolic images of people they disagree with yet when people harshly return their poltical fire they see it as being persecuted for the name of Christ. I think Christians often do this with issues of social cultural debates . Well said squeaky , you have been quite well spoken of late .

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by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 1:20pm

And what about city wide evangelistic "crusades"? And "Campus Crusade" for that matter?

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 1:20pm

And what about city wide evangelistic "crusades"? And "Campus Crusade" for that matter?

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 5:47pm

ckgmail - I would have loved to address the other Christian uses for "crusades" in this piece, but I needed to narrow my focus. I do believe the term "crusade" has worn out its welcome and lost nearly all the meaning it once had. (in our pluralistic society) I think it should be dropped completely out of our lexicon.

And I know that Campus Crusade's name is offensive to many. A friend of mine attended a university with a CC chapter back before he knew much about Christianity and was utterly appalled that a group would choose that name. He said it is still a huge turn-off for him even though he identifies with Christianity now more than he used to.

That's a whole 'nother essay, though.

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 5:47pm

ckgmail - I would have loved to address the other Christian uses for "crusades" in this piece, but I needed to narrow my focus. I do believe the term "crusade" has worn out its welcome and lost nearly all the meaning it once had. (in our pluralistic society) I think it should be dropped completely out of our lexicon.

And I know that Campus Crusade's name is offensive to many. A friend of mine attended a university with a CC chapter back before he knew much about Christianity and was utterly appalled that a group would choose that name. He said it is still a huge turn-off for him even though he identifies with Christianity now more than he used to.

That's a whole 'nother essay, though.

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 7:36pm

Steve, Thanks for doing what you did. I was not rebuking you for not covering these other "crusades," just adding my two cents worth. (Two cents is probably a little more than the market value.) I note you are from East Boston and love gardening. I too like to garden, in a much less hospitable climate (Texas Panhandle) but I do manage to grow a few tomatoes and some other produce. My granddaughter, Lydia Bean, just graduated (PhD) from Harvard in June. She is a justice person, so wonder if you might have met.
Charles Kiker, Tulia, Texas

by: ckgmail

11-27-2009 @ 7:36pm

Steve, Thanks for doing what you did. I was not rebuking you for not covering these other "crusades," just adding my two cents worth. (Two cents is probably a little more than the market value.) I note you are from East Boston and love gardening. I too like to garden, in a much less hospitable climate (Texas Panhandle) but I do manage to grow a few tomatoes and some other produce. My granddaughter, Lydia Bean, just graduated (PhD) from Harvard in June. She is a justice person, so wonder if you might have met.
Charles Kiker, Tulia, Texas

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

I think I know of your daughter from the Boston Faith & Justice Network, of which we were a part several years ago. Small world!

Thanks for the kind comment!

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

I think I know of your daughter from the Boston Faith & Justice Network, of which we were a part several years ago. Small world!

Thanks for the kind comment!

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

granddaughter -- sorry.

by: steveholt

11-27-2009 @ 9:44pm

granddaughter -- sorry.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:18am

I went to seminary with a missionary and leader in the CC world. He said they all talk about the horrible name, and in most countries, they find more reasonable and less offensive names for the organization. I suppose the leadership hasn't quite found it worthwhile to change the name for whatever reason... but my friend said that it's pretty well-known and understood by those within CC that it's not a great name, especially globally, and even domestically.

by: Mennoman

11-28-2009 @ 4:01am

Be gone with them too.

by: Mennoman

11-28-2009 @ 4:01am

Be gone with them too.

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:53am

Remember you are only allowed 3 seconds in the foul lane on a double post ;)

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:53am

Remember you are only allowed 3 seconds in the foul lane on a double post ;)

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:50pm

No issue here with asking for different mascots. Moving past that: What if the cross offends? What if militaristic images offend? What if American imagery or references offend? What if English language offends? What if the Bible offends? What if Jesus offends?

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:50pm

No issue here with asking for different mascots. Moving past that: What if the cross offends? What if militaristic images offend? What if American imagery or references offend? What if English language offends? What if the Bible offends? What if Jesus offends?

by: JoannaCW

11-28-2009 @ 2:45pm

I know, sometimes they do. And then we have two things to figure out: Does the thing which offends them have a true and positive meaning which speaks to us? If not, then we should probably drop it; if yes, then I think we need to keep using what we find helpfulk but also try and find out where the offense comes from. I have sometimes offended people by voicing, and trying to live by, an understanding of Jesus' message which challenged some of their comforts. Then there's a real challenge to be dealt with carefully. Sometimes people have been offended by my use of Christian language because they associated it with something else (anti-Semitism, homophobia...) which I also would object to; a little time spent listening can clarify this.

by: JoannaCW

11-28-2009 @ 2:45pm

I know, sometimes they do. And then we have two things to figure out: Does the thing which offends them have a true and positive meaning which speaks to us? If not, then we should probably drop it; if yes, then I think we need to keep using what we find helpfulk but also try and find out where the offense comes from. I have sometimes offended people by voicing, and trying to live by, an understanding of Jesus' message which challenged some of their comforts. Then there's a real challenge to be dealt with carefully. Sometimes people have been offended by my use of Christian language because they associated it with something else (anti-Semitism, homophobia...) which I also would object to; a little time spent listening can clarify this.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 7:17pm

"Imagine for a minute the fallout were a Muslim high school in America to choose for its mascot "the Jihadists"

Good grief , how many people do you know use the term religious right ? Religious left ? But Crusades is one of how many words in todays world that has lost its meaning . Ever read the original King James Version ?

if a kids says math Sucks it is a total different meaning to someone quite older. Some people believe the American Flag is a symbol of imperialism , some think it represents choice and freedom.
Want to leave it out of the 4th of July parades / because it may offend some Englishmen ?
How many people see words like family values as abusive because some of the people associated with it were actually quite rude, but how many times have you seen people who mock family values because they have none.

Words are important , But a kids crusade where they go and learn about Jesus and Love , learn bible verses and what is means to Follow Jesus , this seems more important then what you are speaking to . Promote all kids living in a culture where their parents can go and worship and not be the portrayal of a someone who hides bomb on their person or someone who only has a narrow point of view and you have my attention .
otherwise you look like your picking and choosing , and only concerned about a politically correct group, which I guess is why the term politically correct was started . ;0)

.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 7:17pm

"Imagine for a minute the fallout were a Muslim high school in America to choose for its mascot "the Jihadists"

Good grief , how many people do you know use the term religious right ? Religious left ? But Crusades is one of how many words in todays world that has lost its meaning . Ever read the original King James Version ?

if a kids says math Sucks it is a total different meaning to someone quite older. Some people believe the American Flag is a symbol of imperialism , some think it represents choice and freedom.
Want to leave it out of the 4th of July parades / because it may offend some Englishmen ?
How many people see words like family values as abusive because some of the people associated with it were actually quite rude, but how many times have you seen people who mock family values because they have none.

Words are important , But a kids crusade where they go and learn about Jesus and Love , learn bible verses and what is means to Follow Jesus , this seems more important then what you are speaking to . Promote all kids living in a culture where their parents can go and worship and not be the portrayal of a someone who hides bomb on their person or someone who only has a narrow point of view and you have my attention .
otherwise you look like your picking and choosing , and only concerned about a politically correct group, which I guess is why the term politically correct was started . ;0)

.

by: ckgmail

11-28-2009 @ 8:26pm

Let justice, crusade is in an offensive category all by itself with the abuses during the crusades.

by: ckgmail

11-28-2009 @ 8:26pm

Let justice, crusade is in an offensive category all by itself with the abuses during the crusades.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 4:21am

I think the distinction is the Cross is the center of our faith. The Crusades are not. Nor are militaristic images. Or the English language. The Bible--just outside the center of our faith with Jesus smack dab in the middle simultaneously occupying that space with God and the Holy Spirit. If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto.

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love. Seems to me we are more often hated because we don't reflect Christ's love. But rather than seeing that as a wake-up call, I have heard people shrug at their bad behavior and justify it with a dismissive comment like, "this is what Jesus meant when He said we would be hated because of Him." Let us be hated for our authentic, Christ-like love.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 4:21am

I think the distinction is the Cross is the center of our faith. The Crusades are not. Nor are militaristic images. Or the English language. The Bible--just outside the center of our faith with Jesus smack dab in the middle simultaneously occupying that space with God and the Holy Spirit. If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto.

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love. Seems to me we are more often hated because we don't reflect Christ's love. But rather than seeing that as a wake-up call, I have heard people shrug at their bad behavior and justify it with a dismissive comment like, "this is what Jesus meant when He said we would be hated because of Him." Let us be hated for our authentic, Christ-like love.

by: scat

11-29-2009 @ 10:29pm

Seems to me it's about more than what offends other people. It's also about what kind of symbols should be representing the Prince of Peace. I find anything warlike, physical weapon, menacing, etc, to be a poor representation of what Christ was and what Christians should strive to
emulate. A sword and shield do not represent a message of love.

by: scat

11-29-2009 @ 10:29pm

Seems to me it's about more than what offends other people. It's also about what kind of symbols should be representing the Prince of Peace. I find anything warlike, physical weapon, menacing, etc, to be a poor representation of what Christ was and what Christians should strive to
emulate. A sword and shield do not represent a message of love.

by: Ashley Renee

11-30-2009 @ 4:19am

Speaking as someone who never thought much about it: I agree with the sentiments of this article completely. That said, I must say that whenever I've seen the "Christian Solider" portrayed I've thought of the full armor of God and waging spiritual warfare on the powers of darkness - not on men. I never, until now, connected the atrocities of the historical crusades with the images I was seeing.

Perhaps I was simply conditioned that way, perhaps that's the mindset many people have when they choose those logos.

Thank you, Mr. Holt, for bringing this up and I encourage people to spread this message. If it insults without need ("If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto." -Squeaky) and thereby keeps people in need of God at bay, we not only should but must reconsider our choice.

by: Ashley Renee

11-30-2009 @ 4:19am

Speaking as someone who never thought much about it: I agree with the sentiments of this article completely. That said, I must say that whenever I've seen the "Christian Solider" portrayed I've thought of the full armor of God and waging spiritual warfare on the powers of darkness - not on men. I never, until now, connected the atrocities of the historical crusades with the images I was seeing.

Perhaps I was simply conditioned that way, perhaps that's the mindset many people have when they choose those logos.

Thank you, Mr. Holt, for bringing this up and I encourage people to spread this message. If it insults without need ("If what is at the center of our faith offends, then we live with it. If what is not at the center of our faith offends, then we should question whether it is worth hanging onto." -Squeaky) and thereby keeps people in need of God at bay, we not only should but must reconsider our choice.

by: Weiwen Ng

11-30-2009 @ 2:17pm

If they aren't changing their name, then they clearly aren't really aware of how bad it is.

by: Weiwen Ng

11-30-2009 @ 2:17pm

If they aren't changing their name, then they clearly aren't really aware of how bad it is.

by: robenbtaglienti

11-30-2009 @ 2:25pm

I am less concerned with the use of the word "Crusades" and more concerned with your interpretation of The Crusades and how you've limited you view of the event in such a way as to redefine history.

by: robenbtaglienti

11-30-2009 @ 2:25pm

I am less concerned with the use of the word "Crusades" and more concerned with your interpretation of The Crusades and how you've limited you view of the event in such a way as to redefine history.

by: quaker

11-30-2009 @ 3:24pm

I agree with robenbtag... the crusades werent a christian event. It was pushed as such to give it appeal. Nothing to do with christians. those that feel this way make it that way. the word doesnt mean military and such. it was used that way but doesnt mean that. when people stop thinking so shallowly and negatively we might get some where. political correctness has been a horrible thing. Gone way to far with it.

by: quaker

11-30-2009 @ 3:24pm

I agree with robenbtag... the crusades werent a christian event. It was pushed as such to give it appeal. Nothing to do with christians. those that feel this way make it that way. the word doesnt mean military and such. it was used that way but doesnt mean that. when people stop thinking so shallowly and negatively we might get some where. political correctness has been a horrible thing. Gone way to far with it.

by: uberVU - social comments

11-30-2009 @ 3:55pm

Social comments and analytics for this post...

This post was mentioned on Twitter by CHRISTIAN_TWEAT: Christians Must Find a More Christ-like Symbol than 'Crusaders ...: I'm no expert on interfaith reconci.. http://bit.ly/8aVBgY...

by: sgillesp

11-30-2009 @ 4:13pm

I disagree with Robenbtag and quaker - the Crusades were certainly a "Christian" event, although they were also certainly a "Christendom" event. The word of God was abused and illiterate Christians were persuaded that this was what God wanted from them. Those cultures who were on the killing end of those spears still remember the brutality, and it's not their fault if they don't understand that the Crusades didn't represent what our Lord taught us to do. It's not about being politically correct - it's about not building obstacles that prevent someone from ever hearing who Jesus is, before we even start talking. There's no good reason to name your school's team the Crusaders, and many good reasons not to - so what purpose does it serve to defend it?

by: sgillesp

11-30-2009 @ 4:13pm

I disagree with Robenbtag and quaker - the Crusades were certainly a "Christian" event, although they were also certainly a "Christendom" event. The word of God was abused and illiterate Christians were persuaded that this was what God wanted from them. Those cultures who were on the killing end of those spears still remember the brutality, and it's not their fault if they don't understand that the Crusades didn't represent what our Lord taught us to do. It's not about being politically correct - it's about not building obstacles that prevent someone from ever hearing who Jesus is, before we even start talking. There's no good reason to name your school's team the Crusaders, and many good reasons not to - so what purpose does it serve to defend it?

by: xfree9

11-30-2009 @ 6:00pm

It's not easy to change a name that old... but personally I don't think that's a good excuse.

by: xfree9

11-30-2009 @ 6:00pm

It's not easy to change a name that old... but personally I don't think that's a good excuse.

by: MacArthur4

11-30-2009 @ 6:03pm

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love

Well said , I know many for instances of people who take political stands that show so much vitrolic images of people they disagree with yet when people harshly return their poltical fire they see it as being persecuted for the name of Christ. I think Christians often do this with issues of social cultural debates . Well said squeaky , you have been quite well spoken of late .

by: MacArthur4

11-30-2009 @ 6:03pm

We will be hated for our faith, we are told. I only pray that we are hated out of authentic reflections of Christ's love

Well said , I know many for instances of people who take political stands that show so much vitrolic images of people they disagree with yet when people harshly return their poltical fire they see it as being persecuted for the name of Christ. I think Christians often do this with issues of social cultural debates . Well said squeaky , you have been quite well spoken of late .

by: BluegrassOhio

11-30-2009 @ 7:31pm

Duplicate post, sorry

by: BluegrassOhio

11-30-2009 @ 7:31pm

Duplicate post, sorry

by: BluegrassOhio

11-30-2009 @ 7:35pm

I know plenty of conservatives who think the Crusader image is mild and would prefer the sword dripping with blood from the "enemy." They seem to make gains by villifying others I suppose.

by: BluegrassOhio

11-30-2009 @ 7:35pm

I know plenty of conservatives who think the Crusader image is mild and would prefer the sword dripping with blood from the "enemy." They seem to make gains by villifying others I suppose.

by: Dale Fincher

11-30-2009 @ 7:57pm

We've been shaking our heads about this for a while now... I'm glad more people are addressing it. Though some could argue historically that the Muslims instigated the battles in the Middle Ages that we call the "Crusades" (thus, giving Crusades a connotation as ones who defends the innocent and oppressed) the name is simply tacky and has been for a long time.

So is most battle language when it comes to talking about our faith. "Culture War" is another one (though Davidson coined the term, Christians keep using it). Since most people don't know that a lot of battle language in the New Testament refers to spiritual battles, we're better off leaving all war talk off the table in today's perceived religiously war-torn world.

And, while we are at it, we can talk about how many mascots in Christian schools use verses out of context, like "Eagles" (Isa 40:31... as if the verse promises victories or strength in organized athletic competitions!)....