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'Spewing Reasonable Dialogue': Affirmation from a 'Skeptical' Commenter

It's not often that a message from a blog commenter makes my day, let alone my week. (Usually they're ALL CAPS e-mails demanding to know why they've been blocked from commenting and telling us what idiots we are.) By the way, this is why we need you to click "report" on abusive posts -- we really do act on them, and it's what keeps our comment section reasonably civil. Though we can always do better.

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But this letter was the kind of affirmation that makes all that comment moderation seem worthwhile. Though I did have to start over and read it more carefully before I "got it."

As a skeptic, I find your site disturbing. How dare you call yourselves Christians and then practice humility and critical thinking! If you don't offend and condescend, how can you claim to be living your blind faith? It's almost as if you think Christianity is *not* synonymous with "judgmental, ignorant, and abusive."

And what of the people who comment on your blogs? Since when do Christians disagree with each other respectfully and with nuanced positions? This is an outrage. How are the rest of us supposed to pigeonhole Christians as hate-filled, frothing-at-the-mouth extremists if some of you are going to start acting...humane?

What really galls me is that you engage in all these anti-Christian practices, and then you continue to stand by your conservative positions. "Compassionate conservative?" Don't you understand that was just a joke to snooker naive moderates?

I'm not sure what your game is, but rest assured I'm going to be stopping by your site regularly. I'm even going to recommend that some of my America-blaming, immoral, valueless friends stop by from time to time. If you people are going to be spewing this kind of reasonable dialogue, I think my subversive friends and I should pay attention.

Skeptimal

Ryan Rodrick Beiler is the Web Editor for Sojourners and a photographer whose work can be seen at www.ryanrodrickbeiler.com.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

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by: squeaky

12-01-2009 @ 1:29am

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

by: BuckeyeDon

11-27-2009 @ 7:02pm

Irony can be really effective when it's pulled off well. It's not easy to do in the electronic universe, but Skeptimal nailed it, I think. Thanks for sharing this, Ryan.

by: duhsciple

11-27-2009 @ 9:21pm

I humbly disagree that the post was ironic.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:16am

Clever message. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this particular person has read much of the comments. Even I tend to flirt with uncivil discourse every now and then.

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:48am

Maybe the message is a challenge for how we should be conducting the conversation. Amen?

by: BuckeyeDon

11-27-2009 @ 7:02pm

Irony can be really effective when it's pulled off well. It's not easy to do in the electronic universe, but Skeptimal nailed it, I think. Thanks for sharing this, Ryan.

by: duhsciple

11-27-2009 @ 9:21pm

I humbly disagree that the post was ironic.

by: Skeptimal

11-28-2009 @ 1:11pm

Xfree and duhsciple,

In short, I was making fun of my own shortcomings in civility, and I was expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture. That's all. It was gratifying that Ryan understood what I was trying to say.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:31pm

I did intend to return to prior comment line and express my appreciation for your interaction and affirmation for writing in a manner consistent with the civility for which you appealed. Thanks.

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by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:16am

Clever message. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this particular person has read much of the comments. Even I tend to flirt with uncivil discourse every now and then.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 6:26pm

'expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture"

Agree with the goals. But I can see somewhat of your understanding of your short comings on civility . Basically when people come together and support the beauty and gift of life , the cherished traditions of our culture and Faith groups of family, and watching some disturbing evidence of groups being denied the right to honor those beliefs because of funding or legislative requirements it appears less then civil to stereotype all those who see that position because ONLY of their own view of "supernatural significance" " "

ever look at what one statistics state what is always a leading indicatore of child poverty , child molestation ,etc rates , one of tha natural parents are no longer in the home ". "

Or saying a list of Ministers from different walks believe beliefs in religious freedom is only for one specific group. hats a respectful way to start a conversation ?

In fact The problem of civility can be caused often by the belief my opinion deserves respect and yours does not. Which is why in America most people do treat each other much better then other cultures , we are far from say Leave to Beaver , but we are surely not totally acting like the cheating housewives and other Hollywood's decadent portrayals of common American life or the hostility to faith and portrayals of ignorant , bigoted , only concerned about our own religious freedom types and our American traditions that academia has embraced, in fact young people are becoming less sexually active, more see the pro life point of view, and just by chance civility may mean saying Mom and Dad , life , respect are important things to consider . Because if we don't see that as a good conversation , you basically may not be able to discuss the rest unless your in your own group.

But I can see why Ryan totally got where you were coming from .

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:48am

Maybe the message is a challenge for how we should be conducting the conversation. Amen?

by: krbg

11-29-2009 @ 2:27am

Trust me, compared to other "Christian" websites I read, this one at its worst is often better than those at their best.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:54am

Thanks, Skeptimal. I look forward to future dialogues with you!

by: Skeptimal

11-28-2009 @ 1:11pm

Xfree and duhsciple,

In short, I was making fun of my own shortcomings in civility, and I was expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture. That's all. It was gratifying that Ryan understood what I was trying to say.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:59am

Considering the history of the dialogue on this blog, I appreciate that we have taken some significant strides at promoting more civil discourse. We still are not "there", but we are much further along than we were. Thanks Sojo for the increased moderation efforts, and to all those who have helped increase respectful, loving, Christian dialogue.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:31pm

I did intend to return to prior comment line and express my appreciation for your interaction and affirmation for writing in a manner consistent with the civility for which you appealed. Thanks.

by: lynsaurus

11-29-2009 @ 6:10pm

Thanks for explaining more, Skeptimal. Before I read your comment about your letter being self-referential, I interpreted the part about "America-blaming, immoral, valueless" as being critical of progressives in general. I'm glad I was mistaken.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 6:26pm

'expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture"

Agree with the goals. But I can see somewhat of your understanding of your short comings on civility . Basically when people come together and support the beauty and gift of life , the cherished traditions of our culture and Faith groups of family, and watching some disturbing evidence of groups being denied the right to honor those beliefs because of funding or legislative requirements it appears less then civil to stereotype all those who see that position because ONLY of their own view of "supernatural significance" " "

ever look at what one statistics state what is always a leading indicatore of child poverty , child molestation ,etc rates , one of tha natural parents are no longer in the home ". "

Or saying a list of Ministers from different walks believe beliefs in religious freedom is only for one specific group. hats a respectful way to start a conversation ?

In fact The problem of civility can be caused often by the belief my opinion deserves respect and yours does not. Which is why in America most people do treat each other much better then other cultures , we are far from say Leave to Beaver , but we are surely not totally acting like the cheating housewives and other Hollywood's decadent portrayals of common American life or the hostility to faith and portrayals of ignorant , bigoted , only concerned about our own religious freedom types and our American traditions that academia has embraced, in fact young people are becoming less sexually active, more see the pro life point of view, and just by chance civility may mean saying Mom and Dad , life , respect are important things to consider . Because if we don't see that as a good conversation , you basically may not be able to discuss the rest unless your in your own group.

But I can see why Ryan totally got where you were coming from .

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:11pm

And thank you!

I heard a preacher once put it like this: Is it true? Is it gracious? Is it necessary?

Your words were a reminder to me to put myself through the 3 question test when I post here. And again, thank you!

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:13pm

Also, I forgot the :) for my one post. I was trying to be funny when I wrote about "my humble disagreement" and "irony"

Please forgive me. Apparently humor is not my strong suit ;)

by: SisterMarie

11-29-2009 @ 10:09pm

Dear "Skeptimal",

As a Christian for well over 50 years, I accept your "criticism." But I do regret that it took us nearly 2000 years to reach this level of civility (if you can call it that). With the uneasy truce in Northern Ireland, at least Christians are not killing other Christians because of their creedal differences.

Though only one major branch of Christianity includes a hierarchy vested with the authority to determine who makes it to heaven, you will occasionally read posts here from those of us who have appropriated the same degree of judgement.

by: krbg

11-29-2009 @ 2:27am

Trust me, compared to other "Christian" websites I read, this one at its worst is often better than those at their best.

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11-29-2009 @ 11:11pm

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by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:54am

Thanks, Skeptimal. I look forward to future dialogues with you!

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:59am

Considering the history of the dialogue on this blog, I appreciate that we have taken some significant strides at promoting more civil discourse. We still are not "there", but we are much further along than we were. Thanks Sojo for the increased moderation efforts, and to all those who have helped increase respectful, loving, Christian dialogue.

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by: lynsaurus

11-29-2009 @ 6:10pm

Thanks for explaining more, Skeptimal. Before I read your comment about your letter being self-referential, I interpreted the part about "America-blaming, immoral, valueless" as being critical of progressives in general. I'm glad I was mistaken.

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08-14-2011 @ 7:21pm

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by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:11pm

And thank you!

I heard a preacher once put it like this: Is it true? Is it gracious? Is it necessary?

Your words were a reminder to me to put myself through the 3 question test when I post here. And again, thank you!

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:13pm

Also, I forgot the :) for my one post. I was trying to be funny when I wrote about "my humble disagreement" and "irony"

Please forgive me. Apparently humor is not my strong suit ;)

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by: SisterMarie

11-29-2009 @ 10:09pm

Dear "Skeptimal",

As a Christian for well over 50 years, I accept your "criticism." But I do regret that it took us nearly 2000 years to reach this level of civility (if you can call it that). With the uneasy truce in Northern Ireland, at least Christians are not killing other Christians because of their creedal differences.

Though only one major branch of Christianity includes a hierarchy vested with the authority to determine who makes it to heaven, you will occasionally read posts here from those of us who have appropriated the same degree of judgement.

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11-30-2009 @ 4:55pm

Social comments and analytics for this post...

This post was mentioned on Twitter by BriDuPree: haha love it: http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/27/spewing-reasonable-dialogue-affirmation-......

by: melodyhanson

11-30-2009 @ 8:50pm

I thought it was funny. Geez, lighten up.

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07-24-2011 @ 7:20am

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by: huck4ever

11-30-2009 @ 10:44pm

I sent very reasonable e-mails asking why I was banned. They were not in ALL CAPS, nor were they given any answer. I'm fine with what this group has decided. This is a liberal blog, and I am emphatically not a liberal, but please do not misrepresent those who have been forbidden to participate in a discussion about "God's Politics".

Sincerely,

The Phantom of the Opera

by: squeaky

11-30-2009 @ 11:29pm

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

by: melodyhanson

11-30-2009 @ 8:50pm

I thought it was funny. Geez, lighten up.

by: squeaky

12-01-2009 @ 1:29am

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

by: huck4ever

11-30-2009 @ 10:44pm

I sent very reasonable e-mails asking why I was banned. They were not in ALL CAPS, nor were they given any answer. I'm fine with what this group has decided. This is a liberal blog, and I am emphatically not a liberal, but please do not misrepresent those who have been forbidden to participate in a discussion about "God's Politics".

Sincerely,

The Phantom of the Opera

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11-30-2009 @ 11:29pm

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: BuckeyeDon

11-27-2009 @ 7:02pm

Irony can be really effective when it's pulled off well. It's not easy to do in the electronic universe, but Skeptimal nailed it, I think. Thanks for sharing this, Ryan.

by: BuckeyeDon

11-27-2009 @ 7:02pm

Irony can be really effective when it's pulled off well. It's not easy to do in the electronic universe, but Skeptimal nailed it, I think. Thanks for sharing this, Ryan.

by: duhsciple

11-27-2009 @ 9:21pm

I humbly disagree that the post was ironic.

by: duhsciple

11-27-2009 @ 9:21pm

I humbly disagree that the post was ironic.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:16am

Clever message. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this particular person has read much of the comments. Even I tend to flirt with uncivil discourse every now and then.

by: xfree9

11-28-2009 @ 2:16am

Clever message. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this particular person has read much of the comments. Even I tend to flirt with uncivil discourse every now and then.

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:48am

Maybe the message is a challenge for how we should be conducting the conversation. Amen?

by: duhsciple

11-28-2009 @ 11:48am

Maybe the message is a challenge for how we should be conducting the conversation. Amen?

by: Skeptimal

11-28-2009 @ 1:11pm

Xfree and duhsciple,

In short, I was making fun of my own shortcomings in civility, and I was expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture. That's all. It was gratifying that Ryan understood what I was trying to say.

by: Skeptimal

11-28-2009 @ 1:11pm

Xfree and duhsciple,

In short, I was making fun of my own shortcomings in civility, and I was expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture. That's all. It was gratifying that Ryan understood what I was trying to say.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:31pm

I did intend to return to prior comment line and express my appreciation for your interaction and affirmation for writing in a manner consistent with the civility for which you appealed. Thanks.

by: letjusticerolldown

11-28-2009 @ 1:31pm

I did intend to return to prior comment line and express my appreciation for your interaction and affirmation for writing in a manner consistent with the civility for which you appealed. Thanks.

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 6:26pm

'expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture"

Agree with the goals. But I can see somewhat of your understanding of your short comings on civility . Basically when people come together and support the beauty and gift of life , the cherished traditions of our culture and Faith groups of family, and watching some disturbing evidence of groups being denied the right to honor those beliefs because of funding or legislative requirements it appears less then civil to stereotype all those who see that position because ONLY of their own view of "supernatural significance" " "

ever look at what one statistics state what is always a leading indicatore of child poverty , child molestation ,etc rates , one of tha natural parents are no longer in the home ". "

Or saying a list of Ministers from different walks believe beliefs in religious freedom is only for one specific group. hats a respectful way to start a conversation ?

In fact The problem of civility can be caused often by the belief my opinion deserves respect and yours does not. Which is why in America most people do treat each other much better then other cultures , we are far from say Leave to Beaver , but we are surely not totally acting like the cheating housewives and other Hollywood's decadent portrayals of common American life or the hostility to faith and portrayals of ignorant , bigoted , only concerned about our own religious freedom types and our American traditions that academia has embraced, in fact young people are becoming less sexually active, more see the pro life point of view, and just by chance civility may mean saying Mom and Dad , life , respect are important things to consider . Because if we don't see that as a good conversation , you basically may not be able to discuss the rest unless your in your own group.

But I can see why Ryan totally got where you were coming from .

by: MacArthur4

11-28-2009 @ 6:26pm

'expressing both admiration and sympathy for a group of people I see trying to bridge some painful gaps in our culture"

Agree with the goals. But I can see somewhat of your understanding of your short comings on civility . Basically when people come together and support the beauty and gift of life , the cherished traditions of our culture and Faith groups of family, and watching some disturbing evidence of groups being denied the right to honor those beliefs because of funding or legislative requirements it appears less then civil to stereotype all those who see that position because ONLY of their own view of "supernatural significance" " "

ever look at what one statistics state what is always a leading indicatore of child poverty , child molestation ,etc rates , one of tha natural parents are no longer in the home ". "

Or saying a list of Ministers from different walks believe beliefs in religious freedom is only for one specific group. hats a respectful way to start a conversation ?

In fact The problem of civility can be caused often by the belief my opinion deserves respect and yours does not. Which is why in America most people do treat each other much better then other cultures , we are far from say Leave to Beaver , but we are surely not totally acting like the cheating housewives and other Hollywood's decadent portrayals of common American life or the hostility to faith and portrayals of ignorant , bigoted , only concerned about our own religious freedom types and our American traditions that academia has embraced, in fact young people are becoming less sexually active, more see the pro life point of view, and just by chance civility may mean saying Mom and Dad , life , respect are important things to consider . Because if we don't see that as a good conversation , you basically may not be able to discuss the rest unless your in your own group.

But I can see why Ryan totally got where you were coming from .

by: krbg

11-29-2009 @ 2:27am

Trust me, compared to other "Christian" websites I read, this one at its worst is often better than those at their best.

by: krbg

11-29-2009 @ 2:27am

Trust me, compared to other "Christian" websites I read, this one at its worst is often better than those at their best.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:54am

Thanks, Skeptimal. I look forward to future dialogues with you!

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:54am

Thanks, Skeptimal. I look forward to future dialogues with you!

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:59am

Considering the history of the dialogue on this blog, I appreciate that we have taken some significant strides at promoting more civil discourse. We still are not "there", but we are much further along than we were. Thanks Sojo for the increased moderation efforts, and to all those who have helped increase respectful, loving, Christian dialogue.

by: squeaky

11-29-2009 @ 3:59am

Considering the history of the dialogue on this blog, I appreciate that we have taken some significant strides at promoting more civil discourse. We still are not "there", but we are much further along than we were. Thanks Sojo for the increased moderation efforts, and to all those who have helped increase respectful, loving, Christian dialogue.

by: lynsaurus

11-29-2009 @ 6:10pm

Thanks for explaining more, Skeptimal. Before I read your comment about your letter being self-referential, I interpreted the part about "America-blaming, immoral, valueless" as being critical of progressives in general. I'm glad I was mistaken.

by: lynsaurus

11-29-2009 @ 6:10pm

Thanks for explaining more, Skeptimal. Before I read your comment about your letter being self-referential, I interpreted the part about "America-blaming, immoral, valueless" as being critical of progressives in general. I'm glad I was mistaken.

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:11pm

And thank you!

I heard a preacher once put it like this: Is it true? Is it gracious? Is it necessary?

Your words were a reminder to me to put myself through the 3 question test when I post here. And again, thank you!

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:11pm

And thank you!

I heard a preacher once put it like this: Is it true? Is it gracious? Is it necessary?

Your words were a reminder to me to put myself through the 3 question test when I post here. And again, thank you!

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:13pm

Also, I forgot the :) for my one post. I was trying to be funny when I wrote about "my humble disagreement" and "irony"

Please forgive me. Apparently humor is not my strong suit ;)

by: duhsciple

11-29-2009 @ 8:13pm

Also, I forgot the :) for my one post. I was trying to be funny when I wrote about "my humble disagreement" and "irony"

Please forgive me. Apparently humor is not my strong suit ;)

by: SisterMarie

11-29-2009 @ 10:09pm

Dear "Skeptimal",

As a Christian for well over 50 years, I accept your "criticism." But I do regret that it took us nearly 2000 years to reach this level of civility (if you can call it that). With the uneasy truce in Northern Ireland, at least Christians are not killing other Christians because of their creedal differences.

Though only one major branch of Christianity includes a hierarchy vested with the authority to determine who makes it to heaven, you will occasionally read posts here from those of us who have appropriated the same degree of judgement.

by: SisterMarie

11-29-2009 @ 10:09pm

Dear "Skeptimal",

As a Christian for well over 50 years, I accept your "criticism." But I do regret that it took us nearly 2000 years to reach this level of civility (if you can call it that). With the uneasy truce in Northern Ireland, at least Christians are not killing other Christians because of their creedal differences.

Though only one major branch of Christianity includes a hierarchy vested with the authority to determine who makes it to heaven, you will occasionally read posts here from those of us who have appropriated the same degree of judgement.

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11-29-2009 @ 11:11pm

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by: bushworlda

11-29-2009 @ 11:11pm

Would you like the discount Mbt shoes? Mbt lami shoes up to 85% off Mbt m walk up to 81% off

by: uberVU - social comments

11-30-2009 @ 4:55pm

Social comments and analytics for this post...

This post was mentioned on Twitter by BriDuPree: haha love it: http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/27/spewing-reasonable-dialogue-affirmation-......

by: melodyhanson

11-30-2009 @ 8:50pm

I thought it was funny. Geez, lighten up.

by: melodyhanson

11-30-2009 @ 8:50pm

I thought it was funny. Geez, lighten up.

by: huck4ever

11-30-2009 @ 10:44pm

I sent very reasonable e-mails asking why I was banned. They were not in ALL CAPS, nor were they given any answer. I'm fine with what this group has decided. This is a liberal blog, and I am emphatically not a liberal, but please do not misrepresent those who have been forbidden to participate in a discussion about "God's Politics".

Sincerely,

The Phantom of the Opera

by: huck4ever

11-30-2009 @ 10:44pm

I sent very reasonable e-mails asking why I was banned. They were not in ALL CAPS, nor were they given any answer. I'm fine with what this group has decided. This is a liberal blog, and I am emphatically not a liberal, but please do not misrepresent those who have been forbidden to participate in a discussion about "God's Politics".

Sincerely,

The Phantom of the Opera

by: squeaky

11-30-2009 @ 11:29pm

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

by: squeaky

11-30-2009 @ 11:29pm

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

by: squeaky

12-01-2009 @ 1:29am

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

by: squeaky

12-01-2009 @ 1:29am

Who are you talking to? Who needs to lighten up?

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07-29-2011 @ 6:33pm

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07-31-2011 @ 9:34am

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08-05-2011 @ 8:33pm

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08-08-2011 @ 11:06pm

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