Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill: A Betrayal of Christ's Teachings

I think you are wrong and this confusion about being against the normalization of homosexuality by Christians is nothing compared to the threat from Muslims. Muslims who are morally comfortable with attacking gays. Remember, Muhammad killed people, not Jesus.Here are some videos of Muslim violence against gays, and I hope Christians will denounce it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcpo3KcHSI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfW9inRkTpU

There is a vast difference between those who voted for Prop 8 and those who advocate genocide.

"I guess a country who would drop 500lb bombs on an Iraqi people for a decade don't have hate in their hearts. "

Actually, a regime which would unilaterally start a war, invade a country under false pretenses, would have either hate or a form of cynicism in their hearts.

"Jesus death/existence is an matter of opinion which I care not to waste time on such foolishness either."

You do not believe in Our Savior? That is your choice. I will not advocate genocide for you or for any other non-believers. That's not what Our Savior preached when He was alive.

What do you believe a Biblical view is of the source of life?

Bisexualism is meet with by death in Iran. Cultural practices dear to societies have now become religion by western fanactics going back to Constantine. Keep the planned parenthood type motives out of Africa and stop promiseing Africans US and UK visas if they act out certain roles in support of issues that will lead to their ultimate demise.

"The deity of the old test was not for everybody and that society looked down upon homosexual behavior with vengenance. And rightfully so."

I need to stop arguing with people with such hatred in their hearts that they would condone genocide.

Jesus died on the Cross because of people like this.

"Different societies had their own perspective of the creator(s) of hue-man kind."

You are practicing a kind of moral relativism here. There are certain acts that are immoral in any culture and this is an absolute, not something relative to various cultures.

Some of those acts that are wrong in ANY culture is the murder or imprisonment of people only because of who they are. Believe it or not, there are many Africans vehemently opposed to genocide or persecution and they are speaking out against this legislation.

"I strongly agree with this black African Nation right to set standards today that years ago would not even be a subject."

So when the Nazis murdered Jews for practicing Judaism, that's perfectly OK?

Is it perfectly OK for Indians in India to practice "Untouchability?" After all, they've done it for thousands of years?

And it's perfectly OK for Africans to practice female genital mutilation because this practice has been done for thousands of years?

Out of curiosity, I clicked on the link to see who the "60 U.S. church leaders" were. The absence of some names on this list says much about the mindset of a significant proportion of this country.

The proposed legislation is draconian. Especially disappointing is the involvement of "American Christian leaders [and] Ugandan church groups." I wonder if part of what is at work is biblicism, an approach to Scripture that is characterized by a literal and flat (all passages carry equal weight) reading. There are Old Testament passages (Leviticus 18 and 20) that command the death penalty for male-male intercourse. If these passages are not read through the lens of the New Testament (which does not affirm the death penalty), then they could be used in support of the legislation in question.

"[WT]'"Not the God of my understanding. Not the God that Jesus spoke about when He was on Earth. God does not sit up there and say, "I'm going to kill X,Y, and Z but I'll allow A, B, and C to live."'

"[JacobS] How then are we to understand the flood? Is that not what God did when he chose to save Noah and his family?"

God sent His son into the world to establish a New Covenant. This New Covenant is not based upon the sorts of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" philosophies that existed before (as recounted in the Old Testament). Instead, the New Covenant is based upon the Two Great Commandments: Love God and Love your Neighbor as Yourself.

For His New Covenant, Jesus died upon the Cross. Then He was resurrected.

Somehow I don't think gays appreciate the difference. To paraphrase Stephen Bishop, they may see that as Islam and conservative Christianity analagous to going from the fire into the frying pan.

I didn't see your signature there. What does that say about you?

Your assumption, of course, is that many Christian leaders were presented with this statement and refused to sign it or publicly condemn this bill in any form. This is difficult to prove.

I noticed some Christian leaders didn't sign too. Some of them even submit comments here at God's Politics. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it though. Because someone's name isn't on one particular petition says nothing about that person or a "significant proportion of this country." Now if you know for sure that a particular person declined to sign and you know their reasoning, then you can start making assumptions.

I have some questions but am hesitant to ask as I don't want to spark an argument. I am not trying to argue with the article per se, but the stance troubles me a little. I can't point to it, and I suppose it might not be there, but I assume that Israel's law called for the death penalty for homosexual acts. Assuming God inspired the law, that God does not change, and at least that Christ's teaching were consistent with the will of God, how can God/Christ be opposed to this law? And, I'm not saying I'm for this law, and that brings me to my second question, What do we do when we feel our moral standards are better than God's? For example, I read the stories where God tells the Israelites to kill everyone in a city they have captured and I wonder how that is right. It sickens me to feel like I'm judging God. So I wonder if anyone has some wisdom on these issues.

Any extreme form of religion, be it Christianity or Islam, tends to be intolerant and often hateful and violent against the "other" which in this case, is gays.I don't think that Mathew Shepard was brutally murdered by a Muslim.....

I think you need to look at the law in light of the historical context, as well as the words of Christ. The death penalty was perscribed for any number of things in the Old Testament, which is in part a result of the need to remove the corrupting influences from the community. Earlier societies did not have the ability to incarcerate people as we do today. More importantly, we learn from Jesus that it is the spirit of the law that matters. He was able to sum up the entire law as two great commandments, and in doing so he affirmed the Old Testament rather than rejecting it. There are also other issues at play, including the relationship between gentiles and the law, which Paul's epistles clarify, and which I wouldn't be able to do justice to.

You're second question is something that I think most believers have thought about at one time or another. I find comfort in knowing that God is the gold standard when it comes to morality. If our morality conflicts with God's, then our morality is immorality. The short answer is that God telling the Israelites to kill everyone in a city they capture is right because God is righteous and everything he does is, by definition, right. But those directions were designed for a specific purpose: to stamp out wickedness and establish Israel as a holy people. That purpose was really no different than the purpose of the flood. I would answer your question with another question to consider: is it wrong for God to kill people? God "kills" people every day, but that is his perogative and we cannot always understand his purpose. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm working on a new and improved "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God," but the point I'm trying to make is that God is sovereign. We belong to God. I think egalitarianism has spread to the point where it affects our religious views, but the fact is that we owe everything, every single breath we draw, to God. If God chose to take any one of us right now in order to serve his purpose, who are we to question it? Again, that doesn't paint the entire picture of a God who chose to become one of us, to live a sinless life, and to die for our salvation-he is our friend and brother after all, but he is also our King. I'm not even sure if this is an answer to your question or just my own random musings on who know's what, but I hope it helped.

I think you have a scriptural mandate (I Cor 13) about making assumptions.

I fully support active opposition to this legislation. A side point is to note the clash of cultures--and the basis on which persons take stands to tell the "other culture" they are wrong.

Many strategies of Christian missions(if not the entire missionary enterprise) have rightly been criticized as colonialist and ethnocentric; an imposition of the west and Christianity. The critique has often romanticized some very brutal cultures. "Who are we to impose?"

OK--to the present--who are we to impose? Which western Christians are the right ones to shape Uganda?

Oh--of course. Us.

An easy answer since we are right and not ethnocentric.

Listen everyone--to Africa--except when you don't like what they say.

Does the hatred in Uganda towards homosexuals derive from an understanding of scripture or from some other source? Is it fundamentally from a Biblical theology or from other socio-religious influences? Is the opposition to the legislation arising from a Biblical theology or from some other source? What makes my source better than your source? Or are these questions that only some people must answer? Which people do you demand answer such questions--and why do we single them out?

One of the problems -- and I heard this from a career missionary who lives in Uganda 10 months out of the year -- is that Islam is growing in Africa as well, and one thing it condemns about the Western Church is its permissiveness on such issues.

Thanks, Rev. Wallis for finally speaking out. Too many are silent in the face of this genocidal legislation.

The proposed legislation is draconian. Especially disappointing is the involvement of "American Christian leaders [and] Ugandan church groups." I wonder if part of what is at work is biblicism, an approach to Scripture that is characterized by a literal and flat (all passages carry equal weight) reading. There are Old Testament passages (Leviticus 18 and 20) that command the death penalty for male-male intercourse. If these passages are not read through the lens of the New Testament (which does not affirm the death penalty), then they could be used in support of the legislation in question.

"is it wrong for God to kill people? God 'kills' people every day, but that is his perogative and we cannot always understand his purpose."

Not the God of my understanding. Not the God that Jesus spoke about when He was on Earth. God does not sit up there and say, "I'm going to kill X,Y, and Z but I'll allow A, B, and C to live."

You are correct. We do not even understand His laws. Why do people die of disease? Is this because God commanded it? Is it because they were cursed by God (that's what people believed about lepers in Biblical times).

Jesus invited lepers to His table and cleansed them of their disease while He was alive. After He was crucified, there were still lepers who died of leprosy. Is this because God allowed it and commanded it? I don't think so. According to the laws of nature (which God created), people die when they catch certain diseases -- not because they are cursed and evil and deserve to die and go to Hell. The righteous, even those who die of leprosy, will be saved.

"only those who have AIDS and are sexually active and those who are sexually involved with minors, so it could cover the spectrum from what we consider statutory rape to outright rape."

So if someone has AIDS and engages in consensual, knowing sex (perhaps with their legal spouse of the opposite gender) -- they deserve the death penalty?

"So if someone has AIDS and engages in consensual, knowing sex (perhaps with their legal spouse of the opposite gender) -- they deserve the death penalty?"

I think you're ignoring the fact that the vast majority of people would not engage in consensual sex if they knew their partner to be infected. I think the death penalty is harsh, but there is an epidemic of AIDS in Africa that I can scarcely understand. The government has a compelling interest in preventing the spread of the disease and protecting the population that is not affected. AIDS, especially in the third world, is a death sentence; there need to be severe punishments for those who spread it with complete disregard for others. At the end of the day, if Uganda makes it a capital offense, it doesn't really bother me. What they need to do is acknowledge that this is happening in the heterosexual as well as the homosexual community and apply that policy fairly.