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Where are the Other Christian Voices Against Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill?

As a career missionary to Africa, I fear what would happen to me on judgment day if I didn't speak out against what is happening in Uganda right now in the name of Christ. I was in the middle of typing my monthly newsletter when I decided to check my e-mail. The subject line read, "Pastor Rick Warren condemns Uganda anti-homosexuality bill." Hurray for Rick Warren, but my question is where's everyone else? Christian Right leaders in the U.S. are constantly griping that the media portray them as bigoted toward homosexuals. Well Mr. Dobson and Mr. Sekulow, now would be a perfect time to prove them wrong. I'm still waiting for my urgent action e-mail.

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I'm not talking about an issue that falls within the realm of perfectly legitimate political debate -- like whether gay marriage should be legal or not. What I'm talking about is a bill that, if passed, would condemn homosexuals to prison, would give the death penalty for homosexuals with HIV, and would criminalize heterosexuals who support gay rights. The bill being considered would actually force heterosexuals to report their gay friends and neighbors to the authorities. I would expect something like this from a group like the Taliban, but from a nation with a vast majority of Christians? Who would have thought? But then again, I'm not sure why I'm surprised.

I'd like to think American Christian leaders have nothing to do with the direction that Uganda's government is sliding toward, but I know it's not true. For starters, I've been to Uganda and have lived and traveled extensively throughout Africa. Based on my experience, the level of influence that American pastors, evangelists, and missionaries have in predominately Christian countries in Africa is astronomical, especially when you consider how many African churches and ministries are dependent on American support. As difficult as it may be to believe, in most English-speaking countries in Africa, American televangelists are like rock stars. Ironically, the way the average Ugandan feels toward people like T.D. Jakes, Reinhard Bonnke, and Benny Hinn is what the average American feels toward people like Bono. If I'm exaggerating, it's only slightly.

Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not suggesting that the above-mentioned leaders are guilty of stoking anti-gay bigotry in Uganda. I use their names only to underscore the fact that, in most cases, American Christian leaders wield a greater influence over the pop-culture in African countries than they do in their own country. Even pastors of small to mid-sized congregations in the U.S. can go to countries like Uganda or Kenya or Nigeria and preach to tens of thousands of people at a time -- and maybe even meet with the country's leaders. It happens every day. American Christianity has enormous influence in Africa. With great influence comes great responsibility.

Let's not forget that there was a man about 80 years ago that came to power on a platform that included criminalizing consensual gay sex. His name was Hitler. There's a reason why the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthian Church, "For what have I to do with judging those who are outside?" (I Corinthians 5:12). Paul must have known that when Christians try to legislate morality outside the confines of spiritual discipline within the Church, the result is usually an ugly monster that looks nothing like Christ. It's time for American pastors, missionaries, and evangelists, along with our African brothers and sisters, to declare loudly to the world -- not in our name!

portrait-aaron-taylorAaron D. Taylor is the author of Alone with A Jihadist: A Biblical Response to Holy War. To learn more about Aaron's ministry, go to www.aarondtaylor.com. To follow Aaron on Twitter, go to www.twitter.com/aarondtaylor. Aaron can be contacted at fromdeathtolife@gmail.com.

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by: Scott Eppler

12-11-2009 @ 6:21pm

I had not even heard about this issue until I saw it on this site. It amazes me how out-of-focus Christians can get sometimes. We need to learn to love everyone the way Christ did. Even (maybe especially) those that we disagree with. You can't kill someone simply because they don't share your beliefs, how is that being like Christ?

We as Christians need to stand-up and shout that this DOES NOT represent Christ or his people!

by: tmamone

12-11-2009 @ 6:31pm

I've seen Jonathan Merritt, Matthew Paul Turner, and Jason Boyett condemn the bill on Twitter.

by: SisterMarie

12-11-2009 @ 6:36pm

Mr. Aaron Taylor,

I'm assuming that the list is not closed - that is, it's not to late for those who perhaps did not know about the appeal to sign it now (and I do agree that Christian ministers in the United States can influence such repressive policies).

Perhaps you could update your entry with information on how names may be added. (I'm sure there must be a means by which the added signatories could be authenicated; i.e. I could not falsely add Hagee's name to the list).

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:52pm

Edmund Burke once said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

For that matter, when will we see Obama condeming this genocidal legislation? I'm not saying that he should order teroops into Uganda and occupy it and engage in nation-building. Just speak out on a human rights issue.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:54pm

Here is a site where I believe that you can add your name to the list.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Uganda_Chris...

by: PDBurns

12-11-2009 @ 6:55pm

I appreciate Aaron's call for a united stand against this legislation. At the same time I would hope that Aaron and others would give grace to those with influence in the Ugandan church to work behind the scenes to change the heart of those leaders that are in favor of this legislation. Public statements aren't always the most effective way of changing the hearts of men. My prayer is for this legislation be removed from consideration.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

i posted rick's statement on my Facebook site and was basically called out by a Ugandan pastor - accused of meddling in their politics and being soft on the Gospel.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

One person who could influence this -- and refuses to do so -- is the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. Many Ugandan Christians are Anglican and he can take a stand.

There comes a time when people must stand up -- or else we will see a Holocaust similar to that in Nazi Germany. In the words of the traditional hymn by James Lowell, ONCE TO EVERY MAN AND NATION:

"Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side;
Some great cause, some great decision, offering each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever, 'twixt that darkness and that light."

This is one of these times.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:04pm

Don't be discouraged. The Nazis in Germany said basically the same thing: "don't meddle with us while we are conducting genocide." This is a false argument that the Ugandan pastor used.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:17pm

thanks for the encouragement. i want to respect this Ugandan pastor but respectfully also tell him he is wrong.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:22pm

There are Ugandan pastors who vehemently oppose this legislation.

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Furthermore, many church leaders in Germany supported the Nazis on religious grounds, because they saw them as defenders of morality. "Soft on the Gospel?" What moments like this show is that the Gospel and what is understood in some contexts as morality can lead in completely opposite directions. When this happens, anyone who cares at all about the Gospel must do everything possible to make this clear.

If I were you, Terry, I would err on the side of clarity rather than "respect."

by: aarondtaylor

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Thank you Sister Marie. I wouldn't know how to sign on to the letter in Rev. Wallis's post on this topic. You may want to try the site that Wave Tossed has posted in his comment below. I'm going to look into it myself. My point is that there are a lot of pastors and evangelists in the U.S. that have close ties to Christian leadership in Uganda. While I'm sure that there are Uganda pastors that are opposed to this bill, I don't think a bill like this could have come to the forefront without strong support from Ugandan churches, and I don't think that the influence of U.S. pastors and missionaries on Ugandan churches should be taken lightly. This is why I feel that U.S. pastors and missionaries should make their views known to their Christian brothers and sisters that they work with in Uganda.

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:28pm

I tried to sign this and it didn't work. I kept getting a message saying that my signature had not been recorded.

by: wayfaringstranger26

12-11-2009 @ 8:35pm

What more can we do??

by: SamHamilton

12-11-2009 @ 9:39pm

Aaron, thank you for your contribution on this topic. It's good to hear from people who've been to Africa and have first hand experience. Thanks for keeping us informed.

by: Mike McDermott

12-11-2009 @ 9:52pm

How much of this is anti-gay legislation and how much is it a knee-jerk government response to the rapid transmission of HIV and AIDS in this country? I have not been there, but have read that it really is an epidemic that the medical institution in that country has failed miserably in containing. Stats from avert.org state that Ugandan life expectancy is 51, there are almost 100,000 deaths attributed to AIDS each year and over 1 million children orphaned each year because of the disease.

by: bexgee

12-11-2009 @ 10:47pm

BTW, check out Jeff Sharlet's interview - at around 20.00 into this interview, he discusses The Family's connection to the Ugandan bill.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcr...

by: junglecat

12-12-2009 @ 1:05am

The Uganda law was condemned on First Thoughts--First Thing's flagship blog. You can add that to the list of American Christians who have condemned the new law.

by: Scott Eppler

12-11-2009 @ 6:21pm

I had not even heard about this issue until I saw it on this site. It amazes me how out-of-focus Christians can get sometimes. We need to learn to love everyone the way Christ did. Even (maybe especially) those that we disagree with. You can't kill someone simply because they don't share your beliefs, how is that being like Christ?

We as Christians need to stand-up and shout that this DOES NOT represent Christ or his people!

by: tmamone

12-11-2009 @ 6:31pm

I've seen Jonathan Merritt, Matthew Paul Turner, and Jason Boyett condemn the bill on Twitter.

by: SisterMarie

12-11-2009 @ 6:36pm

Mr. Aaron Taylor,

I'm assuming that the list is not closed - that is, it's not to late for those who perhaps did not know about the appeal to sign it now (and I do agree that Christian ministers in the United States can influence such repressive policies).

Perhaps you could update your entry with information on how names may be added. (I'm sure there must be a means by which the added signatories could be authenicated; i.e. I could not falsely add Hagee's name to the list).

by: facebook-774524240

12-12-2009 @ 3:24am

This is a good question...

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:52pm

Edmund Burke once said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

For that matter, when will we see Obama condeming this genocidal legislation? I'm not saying that he should order teroops into Uganda and occupy it and engage in nation-building. Just speak out on a human rights issue.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:54pm

Here is a site where I believe that you can add your name to the list.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Uganda_Chris...

by: PDBurns

12-11-2009 @ 6:55pm

I appreciate Aaron's call for a united stand against this legislation. At the same time I would hope that Aaron and others would give grace to those with influence in the Ugandan church to work behind the scenes to change the heart of those leaders that are in favor of this legislation. Public statements aren't always the most effective way of changing the hearts of men. My prayer is for this legislation be removed from consideration.

by: letjusticerolldown

12-12-2009 @ 12:43pm

A sample of sentiment in our "own Christian history" with language that sounds much like many voices today (that I read this morning--it is written by an Alabama woman earlier in last century):

"I am a very old lady, lived over my three score years; born and reared in the Deep South. I am an admirer of the Ku-Klux Klan because my Father was one of the great many who cleansed our public offices of Negroes, carpetbaggers, and scalawags. I can very well remember the Reconstruction Days when the White people of the South were oppressed and mistreated by this ungodly corruptible group. And it was this same group who hated the Ku Klux Klan of that time. . . . I have watched the Ku-Klux Klan in its ups and downs; I have also watched those who so bitterly hate this great organization; have found the haters alwayes had something in mind they wanted to keep covered up, but they know each time when the Klan rises their evils will be uncovered. . . . I can remember my Father saying the Ku-Klux Klan will never die. "It was here yesterday, today, and forever." And I firmly believe God has a working hand through this great organization, for if it wasn't for the Ku-Klux Klan in the Reconstruction Days, America would long have been a mongrelized nation. So today God sees the need of a Ku-Klux Klan as never before a nation as full of corruptible filth as America has. . . . Instead of carpetbaggers and scalawags of years past, America has become infiltrated with worse. . . . [I]n the last thirty years Communism began to grow in America. It has set up fronts such as the N.A.A.C.P and other Jewish controlled organizations as peddlers to create hate and brainwash the minds of the American people [to]. . . just about destroy our Christian faith, our freedom of rights, and the American Way of Life. . . . [W]hen you find a hater of the Ku-Klux Klan check his record; watch him; he is full of corruption; he has something in store for himself and not for others. . . America needs cleaning. The evil ones are in power, as it was in the carpetbagger and scalawag days. Your Father and mine had the guts to clean America. Where are your guts?. . . The Ku-Klux Klan will never die and my prayer is this: O God, bless the Klansman that he may fight to keep America free from ungodly things forever more, and their race as pure as the Lily of the Valley. . . . God bless the Klansman, his home, his family, and his country. Above all, God, bless those who hate the Klan, for they know not what they are doing with their brainwashed minds, Amen. "

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

i posted rick's statement on my Facebook site and was basically called out by a Ugandan pastor - accused of meddling in their politics and being soft on the Gospel.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

One person who could influence this -- and refuses to do so -- is the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. Many Ugandan Christians are Anglican and he can take a stand.

There comes a time when people must stand up -- or else we will see a Holocaust similar to that in Nazi Germany. In the words of the traditional hymn by James Lowell, ONCE TO EVERY MAN AND NATION:

"Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side;
Some great cause, some great decision, offering each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever, 'twixt that darkness and that light."

This is one of these times.

by: Anothernonymous

12-12-2009 @ 2:46pm

Wow!

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:04pm

Don't be discouraged. The Nazis in Germany said basically the same thing: "don't meddle with us while we are conducting genocide." This is a false argument that the Ugandan pastor used.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:17pm

thanks for the encouragement. i want to respect this Ugandan pastor but respectfully also tell him he is wrong.

by: crystal_brooks

12-12-2009 @ 7:37pm

That's what I was wondering. Africa has been hard hit by Aids. And how do we think its transmitted? The men who pass this onto their wives are handing them a death sentence. How else do you stop it? I wonder if we had stiffer penalties in America, would the AIDS rate among black women and middle age women cease? There is absolutely no penalty to the person who infects his wife or girlfriend. And looking at the response of the ugandan pastor, they do not like outside voices interfering in their politics. Why should they listen to us? They see the church in America embracing the culture around it. When we elevate homosexual and lesbian bishops in direct contradiction to the Bible, we cease being someone to listen too. Remember, before we can take the log out of someone else's eye, let's take ours out first. Africa takes a fundamentalist view of the scriptures. And if you read the Old Testament, what did it command to do to those engaging in homosexuality? American Christians have long ago stopped taking the Bible literally. And I understand that there are somethings that we are no longer called to do. We are not under the ceremonial laws anymore. But how about the moral law? I mean, these laws came down from God to Moses, okay? So we know how God viewed this type of behavior and what to do about it. Unfortunately, our culture just embraces all types of lifestyles and we don't seem to care how it hurts other people. Let's commend Uganda for trying to do something about it. We don't like what they are proposing, so let's offer some other solutions that will help stop the spread of this deadly virus.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:22pm

There are Ugandan pastors who vehemently oppose this legislation.

by: beth20042

12-13-2009 @ 3:25am

Seems like they should do more than talk about it on Twitter

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Furthermore, many church leaders in Germany supported the Nazis on religious grounds, because they saw them as defenders of morality. "Soft on the Gospel?" What moments like this show is that the Gospel and what is understood in some contexts as morality can lead in completely opposite directions. When this happens, anyone who cares at all about the Gospel must do everything possible to make this clear.

If I were you, Terry, I would err on the side of clarity rather than "respect."

by: aarondtaylor

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Thank you Sister Marie. I wouldn't know how to sign on to the letter in Rev. Wallis's post on this topic. You may want to try the site that Wave Tossed has posted in his comment below. I'm going to look into it myself. My point is that there are a lot of pastors and evangelists in the U.S. that have close ties to Christian leadership in Uganda. While I'm sure that there are Uganda pastors that are opposed to this bill, I don't think a bill like this could have come to the forefront without strong support from Ugandan churches, and I don't think that the influence of U.S. pastors and missionaries on Ugandan churches should be taken lightly. This is why I feel that U.S. pastors and missionaries should make their views known to their Christian brothers and sisters that they work with in Uganda.

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:28pm

I tried to sign this and it didn't work. I kept getting a message saying that my signature had not been recorded.

by: sara_s

12-26-2009 @ 2:25am

I agree with you Holly. I just returned to the States after spending a year in Uganda and, from my experience, in general the focus on homosexuality seemed like a big distraction that allowed pastors to avoid calling out congregants on the marital infidelity that contributes so greatly to the spread of AIDS. It was also evident that homosexuality is often confused with pedophilia in Uganda, creating a gross misperception of what homosexuality actually is.

Pastors are some of the most powerful members of the community in Uganda and, as a previous blogger noted, American pastors hold an extraordinary amount of sway in the Ugandan church. If "mzungu" church leaders were to focus less energy on coming into Uganda to hold the "health and wealth" crusades that are so often promoted on billboards in Kampala and more attention mentoring Ugandan pastors toward discernment on theological ethics, I think our inevitable intermeddling with the church in Uganda would be much more productive.

by: wayfaringstranger26

12-11-2009 @ 8:35pm

What more can we do??

by: wbminn

12-16-2009 @ 4:14am

I am not going to be 'baited' into a debate about heterosexuality/homosexuality. What I will say is that I am a sinner saved by God's grace. His saving grace is available to EVERYONE.

by: SamHamilton

12-11-2009 @ 9:39pm

Aaron, thank you for your contribution on this topic. It's good to hear from people who've been to Africa and have first hand experience. Thanks for keeping us informed.

by: Mike McDermott

12-11-2009 @ 9:52pm

How much of this is anti-gay legislation and how much is it a knee-jerk government response to the rapid transmission of HIV and AIDS in this country? I have not been there, but have read that it really is an epidemic that the medical institution in that country has failed miserably in containing. Stats from avert.org state that Ugandan life expectancy is 51, there are almost 100,000 deaths attributed to AIDS each year and over 1 million children orphaned each year because of the disease.

by: sara_s

12-26-2009 @ 4:25am

I agree with you Holly. I just returned to the States after spending a year in Uganda and, from my experience, in general the focus on homosexuality seemed like a big distraction that allowed pastors to avoid calling out congregants on the marital infidelity that contributes so greatly to the spread of AIDS. It was also evident that homosexuality is often confused with pedophilia in Uganda, creating a gross misperception of what homosexuality actually is.

Pastors are some of the most powerful members of the community in Uganda and, as a previous blogger noted, American pastors hold an extraordinary amount of sway in the Ugandan church. If "mzungu" church leaders were to focus less energy on coming into Uganda to hold the "health and wealth" crusades that are so often promoted on billboards in Kampala and more attention mentoring Ugandan pastors toward discernment on theological ethics, I think our inevitable intermeddling with the church in Uganda would be much more productive.

by: bexgee

12-11-2009 @ 10:47pm

BTW, check out Jeff Sharlet's interview - at around 20.00 into this interview, he discusses The Family's connection to the Ugandan bill.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcr...

by: junglecat

12-12-2009 @ 1:05am

The Uganda law was condemned on First Thoughts--First Thing's flagship blog. You can add that to the list of American Christians who have condemned the new law.

by: facebook-774524240

12-12-2009 @ 3:24am

This is a good question...

by: letjusticerolldown

12-12-2009 @ 12:43pm

A sample of sentiment in our "own Christian history" with language that sounds much like many voices today (that I read this morning--it is written by an Alabama woman earlier in last century):

"I am a very old lady, lived over my three score years; born and reared in the Deep South. I am an admirer of the Ku-Klux Klan because my Father was one of the great many who cleansed our public offices of Negroes, carpetbaggers, and scalawags. I can very well remember the Reconstruction Days when the White people of the South were oppressed and mistreated by this ungodly corruptible group. And it was this same group who hated the Ku Klux Klan of that time. . . . I have watched the Ku-Klux Klan in its ups and downs; I have also watched those who so bitterly hate this great organization; have found the haters alwayes had something in mind they wanted to keep covered up, but they know each time when the Klan rises their evils will be uncovered. . . . I can remember my Father saying the Ku-Klux Klan will never die. "It was here yesterday, today, and forever." And I firmly believe God has a working hand through this great organization, for if it wasn't for the Ku-Klux Klan in the Reconstruction Days, America would long have been a mongrelized nation. So today God sees the need of a Ku-Klux Klan as never before a nation as full of corruptible filth as America has. . . . Instead of carpetbaggers and scalawags of years past, America has become infiltrated with worse. . . . [I]n the last thirty years Communism began to grow in America. It has set up fronts such as the N.A.A.C.P and other Jewish controlled organizations as peddlers to create hate and brainwash the minds of the American people [to]. . . just about destroy our Christian faith, our freedom of rights, and the American Way of Life. . . . [W]hen you find a hater of the Ku-Klux Klan check his record; watch him; he is full of corruption; he has something in store for himself and not for others. . . America needs cleaning. The evil ones are in power, as it was in the carpetbagger and scalawag days. Your Father and mine had the guts to clean America. Where are your guts?. . . The Ku-Klux Klan will never die and my prayer is this: O God, bless the Klansman that he may fight to keep America free from ungodly things forever more, and their race as pure as the Lily of the Valley. . . . God bless the Klansman, his home, his family, and his country. Above all, God, bless those who hate the Klan, for they know not what they are doing with their brainwashed minds, Amen. "

by: Anothernonymous

12-12-2009 @ 2:46pm

Wow!

by: crystal_brooks

12-12-2009 @ 7:37pm

That's what I was wondering. Africa has been hard hit by Aids. And how do we think its transmitted? The men who pass this onto their wives are handing them a death sentence. How else do you stop it? I wonder if we had stiffer penalties in America, would the AIDS rate among black women and middle age women cease? There is absolutely no penalty to the person who infects his wife or girlfriend. And looking at the response of the ugandan pastor, they do not like outside voices interfering in their politics. Why should they listen to us? They see the church in America embracing the culture around it. When we elevate homosexual and lesbian bishops in direct contradiction to the Bible, we cease being someone to listen too. Remember, before we can take the log out of someone else's eye, let's take ours out first. Africa takes a fundamentalist view of the scriptures. And if you read the Old Testament, what did it command to do to those engaging in homosexuality? American Christians have long ago stopped taking the Bible literally. And I understand that there are somethings that we are no longer called to do. We are not under the ceremonial laws anymore. But how about the moral law? I mean, these laws came down from God to Moses, okay? So we know how God viewed this type of behavior and what to do about it. Unfortunately, our culture just embraces all types of lifestyles and we don't seem to care how it hurts other people. Let's commend Uganda for trying to do something about it. We don't like what they are proposing, so let's offer some other solutions that will help stop the spread of this deadly virus.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: Scott Eppler

12-11-2009 @ 6:21pm

I had not even heard about this issue until I saw it on this site. It amazes me how out-of-focus Christians can get sometimes. We need to learn to love everyone the way Christ did. Even (maybe especially) those that we disagree with. You can't kill someone simply because they don't share your beliefs, how is that being like Christ?

We as Christians need to stand-up and shout that this DOES NOT represent Christ or his people!

by: Scott Eppler

12-11-2009 @ 6:21pm

I had not even heard about this issue until I saw it on this site. It amazes me how out-of-focus Christians can get sometimes. We need to learn to love everyone the way Christ did. Even (maybe especially) those that we disagree with. You can't kill someone simply because they don't share your beliefs, how is that being like Christ?

We as Christians need to stand-up and shout that this DOES NOT represent Christ or his people!

by: tmamone

12-11-2009 @ 6:31pm

I've seen Jonathan Merritt, Matthew Paul Turner, and Jason Boyett condemn the bill on Twitter.

by: tmamone

12-11-2009 @ 6:31pm

I've seen Jonathan Merritt, Matthew Paul Turner, and Jason Boyett condemn the bill on Twitter.

by: SisterMarie

12-11-2009 @ 6:36pm

Mr. Aaron Taylor,

I'm assuming that the list is not closed - that is, it's not to late for those who perhaps did not know about the appeal to sign it now (and I do agree that Christian ministers in the United States can influence such repressive policies).

Perhaps you could update your entry with information on how names may be added. (I'm sure there must be a means by which the added signatories could be authenicated; i.e. I could not falsely add Hagee's name to the list).

by: SisterMarie

12-11-2009 @ 6:36pm

Mr. Aaron Taylor,

I'm assuming that the list is not closed - that is, it's not to late for those who perhaps did not know about the appeal to sign it now (and I do agree that Christian ministers in the United States can influence such repressive policies).

Perhaps you could update your entry with information on how names may be added. (I'm sure there must be a means by which the added signatories could be authenicated; i.e. I could not falsely add Hagee's name to the list).

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:52pm

Edmund Burke once said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

For that matter, when will we see Obama condeming this genocidal legislation? I'm not saying that he should order teroops into Uganda and occupy it and engage in nation-building. Just speak out on a human rights issue.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:52pm

Edmund Burke once said: "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

For that matter, when will we see Obama condeming this genocidal legislation? I'm not saying that he should order teroops into Uganda and occupy it and engage in nation-building. Just speak out on a human rights issue.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:54pm

Here is a site where I believe that you can add your name to the list.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Uganda_Chris...

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 6:54pm

Here is a site where I believe that you can add your name to the list.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Uganda_Chris...

by: PDBurns

12-11-2009 @ 6:55pm

I appreciate Aaron's call for a united stand against this legislation. At the same time I would hope that Aaron and others would give grace to those with influence in the Ugandan church to work behind the scenes to change the heart of those leaders that are in favor of this legislation. Public statements aren't always the most effective way of changing the hearts of men. My prayer is for this legislation be removed from consideration.

by: PDBurns

12-11-2009 @ 6:55pm

I appreciate Aaron's call for a united stand against this legislation. At the same time I would hope that Aaron and others would give grace to those with influence in the Ugandan church to work behind the scenes to change the heart of those leaders that are in favor of this legislation. Public statements aren't always the most effective way of changing the hearts of men. My prayer is for this legislation be removed from consideration.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

i posted rick's statement on my Facebook site and was basically called out by a Ugandan pastor - accused of meddling in their politics and being soft on the Gospel.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

i posted rick's statement on my Facebook site and was basically called out by a Ugandan pastor - accused of meddling in their politics and being soft on the Gospel.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

One person who could influence this -- and refuses to do so -- is the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. Many Ugandan Christians are Anglican and he can take a stand.

There comes a time when people must stand up -- or else we will see a Holocaust similar to that in Nazi Germany. In the words of the traditional hymn by James Lowell, ONCE TO EVERY MAN AND NATION:

"Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side;
Some great cause, some great decision, offering each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever, 'twixt that darkness and that light."

This is one of these times.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:01pm

One person who could influence this -- and refuses to do so -- is the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. Many Ugandan Christians are Anglican and he can take a stand.

There comes a time when people must stand up -- or else we will see a Holocaust similar to that in Nazi Germany. In the words of the traditional hymn by James Lowell, ONCE TO EVERY MAN AND NATION:

"Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side;
Some great cause, some great decision, offering each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever, 'twixt that darkness and that light."

This is one of these times.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:04pm

Don't be discouraged. The Nazis in Germany said basically the same thing: "don't meddle with us while we are conducting genocide." This is a false argument that the Ugandan pastor used.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:04pm

Don't be discouraged. The Nazis in Germany said basically the same thing: "don't meddle with us while we are conducting genocide." This is a false argument that the Ugandan pastor used.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:17pm

thanks for the encouragement. i want to respect this Ugandan pastor but respectfully also tell him he is wrong.

by: terrytimm

12-11-2009 @ 7:17pm

thanks for the encouragement. i want to respect this Ugandan pastor but respectfully also tell him he is wrong.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:22pm

There are Ugandan pastors who vehemently oppose this legislation.

by: WaveTossed

12-11-2009 @ 7:22pm

There are Ugandan pastors who vehemently oppose this legislation.

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Furthermore, many church leaders in Germany supported the Nazis on religious grounds, because they saw them as defenders of morality. "Soft on the Gospel?" What moments like this show is that the Gospel and what is understood in some contexts as morality can lead in completely opposite directions. When this happens, anyone who cares at all about the Gospel must do everything possible to make this clear.

If I were you, Terry, I would err on the side of clarity rather than "respect."

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Furthermore, many church leaders in Germany supported the Nazis on religious grounds, because they saw them as defenders of morality. "Soft on the Gospel?" What moments like this show is that the Gospel and what is understood in some contexts as morality can lead in completely opposite directions. When this happens, anyone who cares at all about the Gospel must do everything possible to make this clear.

If I were you, Terry, I would err on the side of clarity rather than "respect."

by: aarondtaylor

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Thank you Sister Marie. I wouldn't know how to sign on to the letter in Rev. Wallis's post on this topic. You may want to try the site that Wave Tossed has posted in his comment below. I'm going to look into it myself. My point is that there are a lot of pastors and evangelists in the U.S. that have close ties to Christian leadership in Uganda. While I'm sure that there are Uganda pastors that are opposed to this bill, I don't think a bill like this could have come to the forefront without strong support from Ugandan churches, and I don't think that the influence of U.S. pastors and missionaries on Ugandan churches should be taken lightly. This is why I feel that U.S. pastors and missionaries should make their views known to their Christian brothers and sisters that they work with in Uganda.

by: aarondtaylor

12-11-2009 @ 8:18pm

Thank you Sister Marie. I wouldn't know how to sign on to the letter in Rev. Wallis's post on this topic. You may want to try the site that Wave Tossed has posted in his comment below. I'm going to look into it myself. My point is that there are a lot of pastors and evangelists in the U.S. that have close ties to Christian leadership in Uganda. While I'm sure that there are Uganda pastors that are opposed to this bill, I don't think a bill like this could have come to the forefront without strong support from Ugandan churches, and I don't think that the influence of U.S. pastors and missionaries on Ugandan churches should be taken lightly. This is why I feel that U.S. pastors and missionaries should make their views known to their Christian brothers and sisters that they work with in Uganda.

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:28pm

I tried to sign this and it didn't work. I kept getting a message saying that my signature had not been recorded.

by: Anothernonymous

12-11-2009 @ 8:28pm

I tried to sign this and it didn't work. I kept getting a message saying that my signature had not been recorded.

by: wayfaringstranger26

12-11-2009 @ 8:35pm

What more can we do??

by: wayfaringstranger26

12-11-2009 @ 8:35pm

What more can we do??

by: SamHamilton

12-11-2009 @ 9:39pm

Aaron, thank you for your contribution on this topic. It's good to hear from people who've been to Africa and have first hand experience. Thanks for keeping us informed.

by: SamHamilton

12-11-2009 @ 9:39pm

Aaron, thank you for your contribution on this topic. It's good to hear from people who've been to Africa and have first hand experience. Thanks for keeping us informed.

by: Mike McDermott

12-11-2009 @ 9:52pm

How much of this is anti-gay legislation and how much is it a knee-jerk government response to the rapid transmission of HIV and AIDS in this country? I have not been there, but have read that it really is an epidemic that the medical institution in that country has failed miserably in containing. Stats from avert.org state that Ugandan life expectancy is 51, there are almost 100,000 deaths attributed to AIDS each year and over 1 million children orphaned each year because of the disease.

by: Mike McDermott

12-11-2009 @ 9:52pm

How much of this is anti-gay legislation and how much is it a knee-jerk government response to the rapid transmission of HIV and AIDS in this country? I have not been there, but have read that it really is an epidemic that the medical institution in that country has failed miserably in containing. Stats from avert.org state that Ugandan life expectancy is 51, there are almost 100,000 deaths attributed to AIDS each year and over 1 million children orphaned each year because of the disease.

by: bexgee

12-11-2009 @ 10:47pm

BTW, check out Jeff Sharlet's interview - at around 20.00 into this interview, he discusses The Family's connection to the Ugandan bill.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcr...

by: bexgee

12-11-2009 @ 10:47pm

BTW, check out Jeff Sharlet's interview - at around 20.00 into this interview, he discusses The Family's connection to the Ugandan bill.

http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcr...

by: junglecat

12-12-2009 @ 1:05am

The Uganda law was condemned on First Thoughts--First Thing's flagship blog. You can add that to the list of American Christians who have condemned the new law.

by: junglecat

12-12-2009 @ 1:05am

The Uganda law was condemned on First Thoughts--First Thing's flagship blog. You can add that to the list of American Christians who have condemned the new law.

by: facebook-774524240

12-12-2009 @ 3:24am

This is a good question...

by: facebook-774524240

12-12-2009 @ 3:24am

This is a good question...

by: letjusticerolldown

12-12-2009 @ 12:43pm

A sample of sentiment in our "own Christian history" with language that sounds much like many voices today (that I read this morning--it is written by an Alabama woman earlier in last century):

"I am a very old lady, lived over my three score years; born and reared in the Deep South. I am an admirer of the Ku-Klux Klan because my Father was one of the great many who cleansed our public offices of Negroes, carpetbaggers, and scalawags. I can very well remember the Reconstruction Days when the White people of the South were oppressed and mistreated by this ungodly corruptible group. And it was this same group who hated the Ku Klux Klan of that time. . . . I have watched the Ku-Klux Klan in its ups and downs; I have also watched those who so bitterly hate this great organization; have found the haters alwayes had something in mind they wanted to keep covered up, but they know each time when the Klan rises their evils will be uncovered. . . . I can remember my Father saying the Ku-Klux Klan will never die. "It was here yesterday, today, and forever." And I firmly believe God has a working hand through this great organization, for if it wasn't for the Ku-Klux Klan in the Reconstruction Days, America would long have been a mongrelized nation. So today God sees the need of a Ku-Klux Klan as never before a nation as full of corruptible filth as America has. . . . Instead of carpetbaggers and scalawags of years past, America has become infiltrated with worse. . . . [I]n the last thirty years Communism began to grow in America. It has set up fronts such as the N.A.A.C.P and other Jewish controlled organizations as peddlers to create hate and brainwash the minds of the American people [to]. . . just about destroy our Christian faith, our freedom of rights, and the American Way of Life. . . . [W]hen you find a hater of the Ku-Klux Klan check his record; watch him; he is full of corruption; he has something in store for himself and not for others. . . America needs cleaning. The evil ones are in power, as it was in the carpetbagger and scalawag days. Your Father and mine had the guts to clean America. Where are your guts?. . . The Ku-Klux Klan will never die and my prayer is this: O God, bless the Klansman that he may fight to keep America free from ungodly things forever more, and their race as pure as the Lily of the Valley. . . . God bless the Klansman, his home, his family, and his country. Above all, God, bless those who hate the Klan, for they know not what they are doing with their brainwashed minds, Amen. "

by: letjusticerolldown

12-12-2009 @ 12:43pm

A sample of sentiment in our "own Christian history" with language that sounds much like many voices today (that I read this morning--it is written by an Alabama woman earlier in last century):

"I am a very old lady, lived over my three score years; born and reared in the Deep South. I am an admirer of the Ku-Klux Klan because my Father was one of the great many who cleansed our public offices of Negroes, carpetbaggers, and scalawags. I can very well remember the Reconstruction Days when the White people of the South were oppressed and mistreated by this ungodly corruptible group. And it was this same group who hated the Ku Klux Klan of that time. . . . I have watched the Ku-Klux Klan in its ups and downs; I have also watched those who so bitterly hate this great organization; have found the haters alwayes had something in mind they wanted to keep covered up, but they know each time when the Klan rises their evils will be uncovered. . . . I can remember my Father saying the Ku-Klux Klan will never die. "It was here yesterday, today, and forever." And I firmly believe God has a working hand through this great organization, for if it wasn't for the Ku-Klux Klan in the Reconstruction Days, America would long have been a mongrelized nation. So today God sees the need of a Ku-Klux Klan as never before a nation as full of corruptible filth as America has. . . . Instead of carpetbaggers and scalawags of years past, America has become infiltrated with worse. . . . [I]n the last thirty years Communism began to grow in America. It has set up fronts such as the N.A.A.C.P and other Jewish controlled organizations as peddlers to create hate and brainwash the minds of the American people [to]. . . just about destroy our Christian faith, our freedom of rights, and the American Way of Life. . . . [W]hen you find a hater of the Ku-Klux Klan check his record; watch him; he is full of corruption; he has something in store for himself and not for others. . . America needs cleaning. The evil ones are in power, as it was in the carpetbagger and scalawag days. Your Father and mine had the guts to clean America. Where are your guts?. . . The Ku-Klux Klan will never die and my prayer is this: O God, bless the Klansman that he may fight to keep America free from ungodly things forever more, and their race as pure as the Lily of the Valley. . . . God bless the Klansman, his home, his family, and his country. Above all, God, bless those who hate the Klan, for they know not what they are doing with their brainwashed minds, Amen. "

by: Anothernonymous

12-12-2009 @ 2:46pm

Wow!

by: Anothernonymous

12-12-2009 @ 2:46pm

Wow!

by: crystal_brooks

12-12-2009 @ 7:37pm

That's what I was wondering. Africa has been hard hit by Aids. And how do we think its transmitted? The men who pass this onto their wives are handing them a death sentence. How else do you stop it? I wonder if we had stiffer penalties in America, would the AIDS rate among black women and middle age women cease? There is absolutely no penalty to the person who infects his wife or girlfriend. And looking at the response of the ugandan pastor, they do not like outside voices interfering in their politics. Why should they listen to us? They see the church in America embracing the culture around it. When we elevate homosexual and lesbian bishops in direct contradiction to the Bible, we cease being someone to listen too. Remember, before we can take the log out of someone else's eye, let's take ours out first. Africa takes a fundamentalist view of the scriptures. And if you read the Old Testament, what did it command to do to those engaging in homosexuality? American Christians have long ago stopped taking the Bible literally. And I understand that there are somethings that we are no longer called to do. We are not under the ceremonial laws anymore. But how about the moral law? I mean, these laws came down from God to Moses, okay? So we know how God viewed this type of behavior and what to do about it. Unfortunately, our culture just embraces all types of lifestyles and we don't seem to care how it hurts other people. Let's commend Uganda for trying to do something about it. We don't like what they are proposing, so let's offer some other solutions that will help stop the spread of this deadly virus.

by: crystal_brooks

12-12-2009 @ 7:37pm

That's what I was wondering. Africa has been hard hit by Aids. And how do we think its transmitted? The men who pass this onto their wives are handing them a death sentence. How else do you stop it? I wonder if we had stiffer penalties in America, would the AIDS rate among black women and middle age women cease? There is absolutely no penalty to the person who infects his wife or girlfriend. And looking at the response of the ugandan pastor, they do not like outside voices interfering in their politics. Why should they listen to us? They see the church in America embracing the culture around it. When we elevate homosexual and lesbian bishops in direct contradiction to the Bible, we cease being someone to listen too. Remember, before we can take the log out of someone else's eye, let's take ours out first. Africa takes a fundamentalist view of the scriptures. And if you read the Old Testament, what did it command to do to those engaging in homosexuality? American Christians have long ago stopped taking the Bible literally. And I understand that there are somethings that we are no longer called to do. We are not under the ceremonial laws anymore. But how about the moral law? I mean, these laws came down from God to Moses, okay? So we know how God viewed this type of behavior and what to do about it. Unfortunately, our culture just embraces all types of lifestyles and we don't seem to care how it hurts other people. Let's commend Uganda for trying to do something about it. We don't like what they are proposing, so let's offer some other solutions that will help stop the spread of this deadly virus.

by: beth20042

12-13-2009 @ 3:25am

Seems like they should do more than talk about it on Twitter

by: beth20042

12-13-2009 @ 3:25am

Seems like they should do more than talk about it on Twitter

by: carolstech

12-14-2009 @ 6:55pm

Rachel Maddow has been covering this story all week, calling on Christian pastors to take a stand against this legislation.

by: carolstech

12-14-2009 @ 6:55pm

Rachel Maddow has been covering this story all week, calling on Christian pastors to take a stand against this legislation.