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'Stand up for Christmas'?!

by Eugene Cho 12-17-2009 | 3:40pm
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Here's a post from one of my favorite blogs titled, 'Stand Up for Christmas?'. I don't think that she'll mind me sharing her post in its entirety (below) -- it's too good of a read not to share.

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I'm sharing this not because I'm trying to throw Focus on the Family under the train. Believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for the big picture vision of their ministry. Hate them or love them, they are doing some things that not many dare even engage. We can often rant, complain, (and blog), but they've been doing work to build up one of the cornerstones of a healthy society: Family.

But when they miss the boat on occasions, they really miss the boat and I think this might be an occasion they missed the boat. Let me also say that I recently had the privilege of meeting the new president of Focus on the Family (Dobson resigned this past year) and I was appreciative of our time together

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by: squeaky

12-18-2009 @ 8:26pm

Dang. Now I want to know what Strings12 said!

by: sadiestjohn

12-24-2009 @ 12:45pm

Maybe to take a little sting out of the phrase, holiday is simply an alternate form of HOLY days which refers to days where religious observance preceeds other obligations and celebration of Christ's birth absolutely qualifies.

by: letjusticerolldown

12-23-2009 @ 4:42pm

I think the FOTF project bears criticism. But I don't know that the theological argument is pointless.

This is a battle over public theology which crops up a thousand ways. Do we identify Christmas, December 25, 2009 in the Year of our Lord has anything to do with Jesus of Nazareth? Do we identify our public life as in any way related to Jesus?

From my standpoint I don't really have interest in demanding anyone use our Lord's name in a vain or empty way. I also don't think a strident secularism offended by a Merry Christmas is any more free than a harsh fundamentalism

by: Charles Kiker

06-20-2011 @ 8:28am

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by: kansasmennonite

12-19-2009 @ 12:38pm

Was it your church's sunday school class? How did you respond?

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 3:16pm

Yes it was the SS class in my church.

There's a lot misconception of the law regarding prayer in school, and some
feeling of pressure not to say "Merry Christmas." I tried to clarify the
law. that government cannot sponsor religion, but cannot prohibit free
exercise, even in school where it does not disrupt others or infringe on
others freedom of religion. But most of those present want preferential
treatment for Christianity in government and society at large.

I asked who was the first US President to declare the US not a Christian
nation. No one would hazard a guess, so I told them it was John Adams, the
second President, when he signed the Treaty of Tripoli. One guy said,
"Charles, you read different history books than I do." Which is of course
true.

by: kansasmennonite

12-20-2009 @ 5:48pm

I went to a private christian high school and when we went back there to play a game I was looking at things from a different perspective (an outsider). They had a time of prayer before the big game. Yes, they had the right to prayer and thought they were being a witness but sometimes that freedom needs to show restraint. I believe it would have been more of a witness to not pray in certain instances.

Thanks for your detailed analysis of your SS. Did you change any minds?

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 7:32pm

I made at least one guy think about it. Really I can understand the nostalgia. Our town used to be almost totally WASP. Now it's 40% or more Hispanic and about 7% black. Hispanics are a majority in the school system. So it's not just prayer in school and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays. It's a sea change in the culture. And people wish it could just be the way it once was. But of course it can't.

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 3:16pm

Yes it was the SS class in my church.

There's a lot misconception of the law regarding prayer in school, and some
feeling of pressure not to say "Merry Christmas." I tried to clarify the
law. that government cannot sponsor religion, but cannot prohibit free
exercise, even in school where it does not disrupt others or infringe on
others freedom of religion. But most of those present want preferential
treatment for Christianity in government and society at large.

I asked who was the first US President to declare the US not a Christian
nation. No one would hazard a guess, so I told them it was John Adams, the
second President, when he signed the Treaty of Tripoli. One guy said,
"Charles, you read different history books than I do." Which is of course
true.

by: kansasmennonite

12-20-2009 @ 5:48pm

I went to a private christian high school and when we went back there to play a game I was looking at things from a different perspective (an outsider). They had a time of prayer before the big game. Yes, they had the right to prayer and thought they were being a witness but sometimes that freedom needs to show restraint. I believe it would have been more of a witness to not pray in certain instances.

Thanks for your detailed analysis of your SS. Did you change any minds?

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 7:32pm

I made at least one guy think about it. Really I can understand the nostalgia. Our town used to be almost totally WASP. Now it's 40% or more Hispanic and about 7% black. Hispanics are a majority in the school system. So it's not just prayer in school and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays. It's a sea change in the culture. And people wish it could just be the way it once was. But of course it can't.

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:10pm

Rather than condemn or gripe about your fellow brothers or sisters for something that is pretty understandable, maybe you should try to understand where they are coming from? Show compassion and grace instead of condemnation and annoyance.

I wonder how they'd feel knowing how you've spoken of them and your class here. If it bothers you that much, it'd be a lot better to speak to THEM personally about it rather than to talk about it "behind their backs," don't you think?

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:14pm

The "fight" is bigger than what you are seeing. It's a fight against the secularization of America, a nation founded on Christian principals. Ultimately, that's what Dobson and others are "fighting." It's also about Christians voicing their beliefs, something that is becoming more and more "politically incorrent" in this twisted, screwed-up nation.

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:17pm

No one is "ignoring what they do." Can't a person protest something like "Happy Holidays" and ALSO protest what they do? If you know anything about Focus on the Family and other organizations who "protest" businesses that don't acknowledge Christmas, you'll know that they in no way "ignore" the evils done... but you know, there is a whole heck of a lot of evil done in this world, by certain businesses, by politicians, by world dictators, the list goes on.

Also, they do not believe that it's "not really Christmas unless Walmart says so." They are simply fighting the secularization of Christmas and the notion that businesses promote that it's a holiday void of Christ and it's all about stuff... material things and buying them.

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:26pm

"So campaigning to limit all that to only "Merry Christmas" is a phenomenal waste of precious time and resources -- because the campaigners are spending time & resources which could be applied to feeding the homeless or other mission to make their neighborhood better. Give us all a break."

How much time do you think they spend on this? I can tell you. Not that much. I get emails from various family organization who are a part of it, and they are nothing major... not a huge time or resource investment.

They are not spending money on this, nor are they devoting a ton of time to it. But I guess if we are going to judge others and how they spend their time and money, let's start with each other. Isn't blogging and shopping and watching t.v. and all the other things we surely devote much of our time and resources to keeping us from helping the poor??

Let's look at our own bad selves instead of judging others.

by: BuckeyeDon

12-21-2009 @ 9:35pm

Respectfully, I disagree. There's always been tension between the "world" and the Christian church--at least the authentic Christian church. This is no different.

And America has always been a secular nation. After all, God isn't mentioned in the Constitution. That was deliberate, by the way. It was intended that way so that religion could grow and thrive.

To me there are much bigger fights than how people greet me at this time of year. I receive either greeting with gladness, and I greet people with either greeting, depending on circumstances. I would rather the Christian church put forth more effort to helping the poor, the outcast, the alien, and the forgotten, and far less effort into these cultural battles that don't solve anything and just make Christians look foolish.

by: sadiestjohn

12-24-2009 @ 2:45pm

Maybe to take a little sting out of the phrase, holiday is simply an alternate form of HOLY days which refers to days where religious observance preceeds other obligations and celebration of Christ's birth absolutely qualifies.

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:10pm

Rather than condemn or gripe about your fellow brothers or sisters for something that is pretty understandable, maybe you should try to understand where they are coming from? Show compassion and grace instead of condemnation and annoyance.

I wonder how they'd feel knowing how you've spoken of them and your class here. If it bothers you that much, it'd be a lot better to speak to THEM personally about it rather than to talk about it "behind their backs," don't you think?

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:14pm

The "fight" is bigger than what you are seeing. It's a fight against the secularization of America, a nation founded on Christian principals. Ultimately, that's what Dobson and others are "fighting." It's also about Christians voicing their beliefs, something that is becoming more and more "politically incorrent" in this twisted, screwed-up nation.

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:17pm

No one is "ignoring what they do." Can't a person protest something like "Happy Holidays" and ALSO protest what they do? If you know anything about Focus on the Family and other organizations who "protest" businesses that don't acknowledge Christmas, you'll know that they in no way "ignore" the evils done... but you know, there is a whole heck of a lot of evil done in this world, by certain businesses, by politicians, by world dictators, the list goes on.

Also, they do not believe that it's "not really Christmas unless Walmart says so." They are simply fighting the secularization of Christmas and the notion that businesses promote that it's a holiday void of Christ and it's all about stuff... material things and buying them.

by: shirley2010

12-21-2009 @ 9:26pm

"So campaigning to limit all that to only "Merry Christmas" is a phenomenal waste of precious time and resources -- because the campaigners are spending time & resources which could be applied to feeding the homeless or other mission to make their neighborhood better. Give us all a break."

How much time do you think they spend on this? I can tell you. Not that much. I get emails from various family organization who are a part of it, and they are nothing major... not a huge time or resource investment.

They are not spending money on this, nor are they devoting a ton of time to it. But I guess if we are going to judge others and how they spend their time and money, let's start with each other. Isn't blogging and shopping and watching t.v. and all the other things we surely devote much of our time and resources to keeping us from helping the poor??

Let's look at our own bad selves instead of judging others.

by: BlueDeacon

12-22-2009 @ 1:06pm

They are simply fighting the secularization of Christmas and the notion that businesses promote that it's a holiday void of Christ and it's all about stuff... material things and buying them.

Well, Christmas actually was a secular holiday before the 4th Century church got a hold of it, and the Puritans actually banned it in this country because of their contempt for Roman Catholicism.

by: BuckeyeDon

12-21-2009 @ 9:35pm

Respectfully, I disagree. There's always been tension between the "world" and the Christian church--at least the authentic Christian church. This is no different.

And America has always been a secular nation. After all, God isn't mentioned in the Constitution. That was deliberate, by the way. It was intended that way so that religion could grow and thrive.

To me there are much bigger fights than how people greet me at this time of year. I receive either greeting with gladness, and I greet people with either greeting, depending on circumstances. I would rather the Christian church put forth more effort to helping the poor, the outcast, the alien, and the forgotten, and far less effort into these cultural battles that don't solve anything and just make Christians look foolish.

by: jingreet

12-22-2009 @ 2:06pm

I'm a 27 year-old American who's been living out of the country for most of the past five years, and in that time I've come to a few realizations about our country and the concept of America. In general, I've moved away from the cynicism towards our nation I felt as a college student and developed a deep appreciation of what an amazing place (made up of extraordinary people) America is. Of course, I still feel outraged when I see or hear of injustice in the US, but somehow I feel more aware now of their being "another option" (even though I've been a Christian for a long time). I encourage you to take a wider view of the country you live in, embrace the good, and figure out how to responsibly act on the bad. You live in a place where this is not only possible, but is ingrained in most citizens as standard operating procedure. You have also been blessed with a Christian vision of what can be. The way our country works means that pretty much everyone (even your "foes") is faced with stumbling blocks from time to time, but I'd argue that they have rarely (maybe never?) been excuses to be cynical about the promise our circumstances.

by: ckgmail

12-17-2009 @ 3:22pm

Thanks for this post. Just this past week experienced--in a Sunday School class--a bunch of BS about "merry Christmas" and "happy holidays" and how awful it is that things ain't like they used to be when the teachers could make kids pray in class whether they wanted to or not ad infinitum ad nauseam.

It occurse to me that it may be taking his title in vain when we even use the word chistmas in connection with our over commercialized holiday.

Surprised there are not a bunch of negative comments from some of the "evangelicals" who frequent "God's Politics."

by: jesse3

12-17-2009 @ 4:12pm

Some good points here. I have no beef with 'happy holidays.' Unfortunately, the writer's vulgarity gets in the way of her points, diminishing their forcefulness as a consequence.

by: LadyJess78

12-17-2009 @ 4:37pm

Here, here!! I am always amazed at Christians' willingness to ostracize our brothers and sisters of different faiths by insisting that everyone cater to our religious beliefs and wish us a Merry Christmas regardless of what they believe. We are looking only at the surface when we obsess over such petty and miserly concerns.

by: WaveTossed

12-17-2009 @ 5:09pm

Great article! I'm with you. I care far more about whether a store or enterprise uses slave labor or not than whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays."

I personally say "Merry Christmas" most of the time. I've never met anyone who was offended. On the other hand, I'm not offended if someone sayd "Happy Holidays."

Ahhh, to go back to the days when "Merry Christmas" was not a political issue.

by: willhouk

12-17-2009 @ 5:21pm

I liked her post and I totally agree with her. I don't think the vulgarity is that big of a deal, I mean she's mad. And rightly so. Plus it gave me a little chuckle.

The thing that gets me about this whole "War on Christmas" thing is that "Happy Holidays" includes Christmas and New Years. What's wrong with that? Then you add the fact that there are other celebrations taking place in December as well and it makes the whole thing seem silly.

Thank you Bill O'Reilly.

by: garyroth

12-17-2009 @ 6:39pm

I am afraid I don't share any of your enthusiasm for "Focus On the Family." I don't know what Crackerjack box Dobson got his degree from, but he long ago gave up sound psychology for right-wing dogma. On top of that, he spouts a lot of garbage theology in keeping with his right-wing views. I guess one could let him go on his theology, since he doesn't know what he's talking about, except that he pretends that he does. I have had numerous clients that I have had come to me with problems stemming from his terrible mixture of bad theology and bad psychology. I haven't listened to the program since he left - I hope it has gotten a bit better, but doubt it.

As for the matter of saying "Merry Christmas," the writer is right on. We tend to strain gnats, and miss the log (the Yule log?). In the church, Christmas is a minor holiday anyway. Let's get our priorities straight, and fight the important battles. Happy Holidays!

by: BuckeyeDon

12-17-2009 @ 7:49pm

I'm with garyroth above. Of all the fights in the so-called culture wars, the fight over insisting that people say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" is about the dumbest.

I always thought people said "Happy Holidays" because we happen to celebrate two holidays--Christmas and New Year--a week apart ("holidays"--plural, not "holiday"--singular), not because of some godless heathen attempt scuttle Christmas. Then, of course, there's the fact that not all people are Christians and they don't all celebrate Christmas.

Good grief! I mean, let's pick our fights! This one just simply isn't worth getting bent out of shape over.

by: kcbythepond

12-17-2009 @ 7:57pm

So glad to see this post. I read about this campaign and truly thought it must be tongue in cheek. How could we possibly be complaining about what corporations SAY and ignoring what they DO, and in the name of Jesus??? I can't imagine anything much more bizarre than the notion that its not really Christmas unless Walmart says so. I sent an email to Focus on the Family expressing my dismay (very politely :) but I'm still waiting for a reply....

by: ShazamMan

12-17-2009 @ 8:12pm

Christians should be wishing others "Merry Christmas" and not waiting on -- and rating -- the world to say it to us. There are certainly events in our society to become upset about -- such as the elementary school boy who was suspended for drawing a crucifix -- but holiday
greetings should not be among them.

by: BlueDeacon

12-22-2009 @ 1:06pm

They are simply fighting the secularization of Christmas and the notion that businesses promote that it's a holiday void of Christ and it's all about stuff... material things and buying them.

Well, Christmas actually was a secular holiday before the 4th Century church got a hold of it, and the Puritans actually banned it in this country because of their contempt for Roman Catholicism.

by: ckgmail

12-17-2009 @ 3:22pm

Thanks for this post. Just this past week experienced--in a Sunday School class--a bunch of BS about "merry Christmas" and "happy holidays" and how awful it is that things ain't like they used to be when the teachers could make kids pray in class whether they wanted to or not ad infinitum ad nauseam.

It occurse to me that it may be taking his title in vain when we even use the word chistmas in connection with our over commercialized holiday.

Surprised there are not a bunch of negative comments from some of the "evangelicals" who frequent "God's Politics."

by: jingreet

12-22-2009 @ 2:06pm

I'm a 27 year-old American who's been living out of the country for most of the past five years, and in that time I've come to a few realizations about our country and the concept of America. In general, I've moved away from the cynicism towards our nation I felt as a college student and developed a deep appreciation of what an amazing place (made up of extraordinary people) America is. Of course, I still feel outraged when I see or hear of injustice in the US, but somehow I feel more aware now of their being "another option" (even though I've been a Christian for a long time). I encourage you to take a wider view of the country you live in, embrace the good, and figure out how to responsibly act on the bad. You live in a place where this is not only possible, but is ingrained in most citizens as standard operating procedure. You have also been blessed with a Christian vision of what can be. The way our country works means that pretty much everyone (even your "foes") is faced with stumbling blocks from time to time, but I'd argue that they have rarely (maybe never?) been excuses to be cynical about the promise our circumstances.

by: jesse3

12-17-2009 @ 4:12pm

Some good points here. I have no beef with 'happy holidays.' Unfortunately, the writer's vulgarity gets in the way of her points, diminishing their forcefulness as a consequence.

by: N0el

12-17-2009 @ 9:45pm

I am a regional church office secretary, and I tell all our pastors & members that I hope they have "wonderful holidays."

This is because the pastors have to celebrate 3 Sunday services including Advent church season as well as Christmas church season, "Blue Christmas" (or Longest Night; meditational services for those mourning losses in the midst of everyone else's cheer), Christmas Eve (services), Christmas Day (services), New Year's (services), not to mention all the "Ladies' Holiday Teas," fundraising events by partner non-profits, church dinner events for the community, and other church committees' planned Advent activities. And the pastors & members are supposed to celebrate all of them.

So campaigning to limit all that to only "Merry Christmas" is a phenomenal waste of precious time and resources -- because the campaigners are spending time & resources which could be applied to feeding the homeless or other mission to make their neighborhood better. Give us all a break. Using God's gift of common sense would make God far more happy.

To you, tho, Happy Holidays ... go & sin not ... <grin>

by: sadiestjohn

12-24-2009 @ 12:45pm

Maybe to take a little sting out of the phrase, holiday is simply an alternate form of HOLY days which refers to days where religious observance preceeds other obligations and celebration of Christ's birth absolutely qualifies.

by: letjusticerolldown

12-23-2009 @ 4:42pm

I think the FOTF project bears criticism. But I don't know that the theological argument is pointless.

This is a battle over public theology which crops up a thousand ways. Do we identify Christmas, December 25, 2009 in the Year of our Lord has anything to do with Jesus of Nazareth? Do we identify our public life as in any way related to Jesus?

From my standpoint I don't really have interest in demanding anyone use our Lord's name in a vain or empty way. I also don't think a strident secularism offended by a Merry Christmas is any more free than a harsh fundamentalism

by: LadyJess78

12-17-2009 @ 4:37pm

Here, here!! I am always amazed at Christians' willingness to ostracize our brothers and sisters of different faiths by insisting that everyone cater to our religious beliefs and wish us a Merry Christmas regardless of what they believe. We are looking only at the surface when we obsess over such petty and miserly concerns.

by: BelovedFollower

12-22-2009 @ 6:52pm

Which Christian principle was enacted in the stealing and enslaving of human beings from other continents, and the genocide of the people who already inhabited the land "we" discovered. One of the main principles we were supposed to be founded on was religious freedom, including the right to not have to practice any. But when I was in public grade school we began each school day with the Lords Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance. . Noone ever asked me if I wanted to participate, it was just expected that I would. And lets not forget whose calender we all live by in this country, and whos holiday (the pagans) we stole and manipulated to turn it into our day of observing Christs birth (aka winter solstice). (Very few biblical scholars would even attempt to argue the fact that Christ was born anywhere near Dec. 25th.)And then we would have the audacity to tell them they cant even acknowledge their traditions anymore? And for those who would argue we live in a democracy where majority rules and the minority should acclimate or get out, we actually live in a democratic republic where the majority has a certain amount of power but not to the extreme that the rights of minorities are ignored. We are a country that provides voice and power to the few! Thats what makes us great and respected in the world!

by: WaveTossed

12-17-2009 @ 5:09pm

Great article! I'm with you. I care far more about whether a store or enterprise uses slave labor or not than whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays."

I personally say "Merry Christmas" most of the time. I've never met anyone who was offended. On the other hand, I'm not offended if someone sayd "Happy Holidays."

Ahhh, to go back to the days when "Merry Christmas" was not a political issue.

by: willhouk

12-17-2009 @ 5:21pm

I liked her post and I totally agree with her. I don't think the vulgarity is that big of a deal, I mean she's mad. And rightly so. Plus it gave me a little chuckle.

The thing that gets me about this whole "War on Christmas" thing is that "Happy Holidays" includes Christmas and New Years. What's wrong with that? Then you add the fact that there are other celebrations taking place in December as well and it makes the whole thing seem silly.

Thank you Bill O'Reilly.

by: WaveTossed

12-22-2009 @ 7:36pm

"Can't a person protest something like 'Happy Holidays'"

Why is anyone protesting anything?

It's the season of joy, the season of Our Savior's birth. I usually say "Merry Christmas" to express my spirit of the season. If somone else says "Happy Holidays" or "Joyous Winter Solstice" or "Seasons Greetings" or "Merry Kwanzaa" or "Peaceful Ramadan" or "Happy Hannukah" I'm not going to be offended at all.

I long for the days when wishing someone "Merry Christmas" was neither a political statement nor an endorsement of certain beliefs.

Merry Christmas everyone!

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-17-2009 @ 10:57pm

Why did you have to use filthy trashy language in your blog?

by: garyroth

12-17-2009 @ 6:39pm

I am afraid I don't share any of your enthusiasm for "Focus On the Family." I don't know what Crackerjack box Dobson got his degree from, but he long ago gave up sound psychology for right-wing dogma. On top of that, he spouts a lot of garbage theology in keeping with his right-wing views. I guess one could let him go on his theology, since he doesn't know what he's talking about, except that he pretends that he does. I have had numerous clients that I have had come to me with problems stemming from his terrible mixture of bad theology and bad psychology. I haven't listened to the program since he left - I hope it has gotten a bit better, but doubt it.

As for the matter of saying "Merry Christmas," the writer is right on. We tend to strain gnats, and miss the log (the Yule log?). In the church, Christmas is a minor holiday anyway. Let's get our priorities straight, and fight the important battles. Happy Holidays!

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-17-2009 @ 11:00pm

What does "Christ-Mas(s)" have to do with the Birth of Jesus?

There is no "Christmas" in the Bible.

by: WaveTossed

12-22-2009 @ 7:41pm

"The 'fight' is bigger than what you are seeing. It's a fight against the secularization of America, a nation founded on Christian principals."

Good Lord, why would you (or anyone else) want to be involved in a "fight" at all??? 'Tis the season to be jolly, it's the miraculous season of our Savior's birth. Why in the world should wishing someone a Merry Christmas become a political statement against "the secularization of America?"

I usually say "Merry Christmas" in accordance with my own religious beliefs. If someone else says "Happy Holidays" or "Joyful Soulstice" or "Seasons Greetings" or "Merry Hannakah" or "Peaceful Ramadan," I'm not going to get bent out of shape over any of this.

Merry Christmas and Peace on Earth!

by: PASTOR JEFF

12-17-2009 @ 11:30pm

You would expect something more ethically meaningful from an organization built by the Coors family and supported by Blackwater.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: ckgmail

12-17-2009 @ 3:22pm

Thanks for this post. Just this past week experienced--in a Sunday School class--a bunch of BS about "merry Christmas" and "happy holidays" and how awful it is that things ain't like they used to be when the teachers could make kids pray in class whether they wanted to or not ad infinitum ad nauseam.

It occurse to me that it may be taking his title in vain when we even use the word chistmas in connection with our over commercialized holiday.

Surprised there are not a bunch of negative comments from some of the "evangelicals" who frequent "God's Politics."

by: ckgmail

12-17-2009 @ 3:22pm

Thanks for this post. Just this past week experienced--in a Sunday School class--a bunch of BS about "merry Christmas" and "happy holidays" and how awful it is that things ain't like they used to be when the teachers could make kids pray in class whether they wanted to or not ad infinitum ad nauseam.

It occurse to me that it may be taking his title in vain when we even use the word chistmas in connection with our over commercialized holiday.

Surprised there are not a bunch of negative comments from some of the "evangelicals" who frequent "God's Politics."

by: jesse3

12-17-2009 @ 4:12pm

Some good points here. I have no beef with 'happy holidays.' Unfortunately, the writer's vulgarity gets in the way of her points, diminishing their forcefulness as a consequence.

by: jesse3

12-17-2009 @ 4:12pm

Some good points here. I have no beef with 'happy holidays.' Unfortunately, the writer's vulgarity gets in the way of her points, diminishing their forcefulness as a consequence.

by: LadyJess78

12-17-2009 @ 4:37pm

Here, here!! I am always amazed at Christians' willingness to ostracize our brothers and sisters of different faiths by insisting that everyone cater to our religious beliefs and wish us a Merry Christmas regardless of what they believe. We are looking only at the surface when we obsess over such petty and miserly concerns.

by: LadyJess78

12-17-2009 @ 4:37pm

Here, here!! I am always amazed at Christians' willingness to ostracize our brothers and sisters of different faiths by insisting that everyone cater to our religious beliefs and wish us a Merry Christmas regardless of what they believe. We are looking only at the surface when we obsess over such petty and miserly concerns.

by: WaveTossed

12-17-2009 @ 5:09pm

Great article! I'm with you. I care far more about whether a store or enterprise uses slave labor or not than whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays."

I personally say "Merry Christmas" most of the time. I've never met anyone who was offended. On the other hand, I'm not offended if someone sayd "Happy Holidays."

Ahhh, to go back to the days when "Merry Christmas" was not a political issue.

by: WaveTossed

12-17-2009 @ 5:09pm

Great article! I'm with you. I care far more about whether a store or enterprise uses slave labor or not than whether someone says "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays."

I personally say "Merry Christmas" most of the time. I've never met anyone who was offended. On the other hand, I'm not offended if someone sayd "Happy Holidays."

Ahhh, to go back to the days when "Merry Christmas" was not a political issue.

by: willhouk

12-17-2009 @ 5:21pm

I liked her post and I totally agree with her. I don't think the vulgarity is that big of a deal, I mean she's mad. And rightly so. Plus it gave me a little chuckle.

The thing that gets me about this whole "War on Christmas" thing is that "Happy Holidays" includes Christmas and New Years. What's wrong with that? Then you add the fact that there are other celebrations taking place in December as well and it makes the whole thing seem silly.

Thank you Bill O'Reilly.

by: willhouk

12-17-2009 @ 5:21pm

I liked her post and I totally agree with her. I don't think the vulgarity is that big of a deal, I mean she's mad. And rightly so. Plus it gave me a little chuckle.

The thing that gets me about this whole "War on Christmas" thing is that "Happy Holidays" includes Christmas and New Years. What's wrong with that? Then you add the fact that there are other celebrations taking place in December as well and it makes the whole thing seem silly.

Thank you Bill O'Reilly.

by: garyroth

12-17-2009 @ 6:39pm

I am afraid I don't share any of your enthusiasm for "Focus On the Family." I don't know what Crackerjack box Dobson got his degree from, but he long ago gave up sound psychology for right-wing dogma. On top of that, he spouts a lot of garbage theology in keeping with his right-wing views. I guess one could let him go on his theology, since he doesn't know what he's talking about, except that he pretends that he does. I have had numerous clients that I have had come to me with problems stemming from his terrible mixture of bad theology and bad psychology. I haven't listened to the program since he left - I hope it has gotten a bit better, but doubt it.

As for the matter of saying "Merry Christmas," the writer is right on. We tend to strain gnats, and miss the log (the Yule log?). In the church, Christmas is a minor holiday anyway. Let's get our priorities straight, and fight the important battles. Happy Holidays!

by: garyroth

12-17-2009 @ 6:39pm

I am afraid I don't share any of your enthusiasm for "Focus On the Family." I don't know what Crackerjack box Dobson got his degree from, but he long ago gave up sound psychology for right-wing dogma. On top of that, he spouts a lot of garbage theology in keeping with his right-wing views. I guess one could let him go on his theology, since he doesn't know what he's talking about, except that he pretends that he does. I have had numerous clients that I have had come to me with problems stemming from his terrible mixture of bad theology and bad psychology. I haven't listened to the program since he left - I hope it has gotten a bit better, but doubt it.

As for the matter of saying "Merry Christmas," the writer is right on. We tend to strain gnats, and miss the log (the Yule log?). In the church, Christmas is a minor holiday anyway. Let's get our priorities straight, and fight the important battles. Happy Holidays!

by: BuckeyeDon

12-17-2009 @ 7:49pm

I'm with garyroth above. Of all the fights in the so-called culture wars, the fight over insisting that people say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" is about the dumbest.

I always thought people said "Happy Holidays" because we happen to celebrate two holidays--Christmas and New Year--a week apart ("holidays"--plural, not "holiday"--singular), not because of some godless heathen attempt scuttle Christmas. Then, of course, there's the fact that not all people are Christians and they don't all celebrate Christmas.

Good grief! I mean, let's pick our fights! This one just simply isn't worth getting bent out of shape over.

by: BuckeyeDon

12-17-2009 @ 7:49pm

I'm with garyroth above. Of all the fights in the so-called culture wars, the fight over insisting that people say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" is about the dumbest.

I always thought people said "Happy Holidays" because we happen to celebrate two holidays--Christmas and New Year--a week apart ("holidays"--plural, not "holiday"--singular), not because of some godless heathen attempt scuttle Christmas. Then, of course, there's the fact that not all people are Christians and they don't all celebrate Christmas.

Good grief! I mean, let's pick our fights! This one just simply isn't worth getting bent out of shape over.

by: kcbythepond

12-17-2009 @ 7:57pm

So glad to see this post. I read about this campaign and truly thought it must be tongue in cheek. How could we possibly be complaining about what corporations SAY and ignoring what they DO, and in the name of Jesus??? I can't imagine anything much more bizarre than the notion that its not really Christmas unless Walmart says so. I sent an email to Focus on the Family expressing my dismay (very politely :) but I'm still waiting for a reply....

by: kcbythepond

12-17-2009 @ 7:57pm

So glad to see this post. I read about this campaign and truly thought it must be tongue in cheek. How could we possibly be complaining about what corporations SAY and ignoring what they DO, and in the name of Jesus??? I can't imagine anything much more bizarre than the notion that its not really Christmas unless Walmart says so. I sent an email to Focus on the Family expressing my dismay (very politely :) but I'm still waiting for a reply....

by: ShazamMan

12-17-2009 @ 8:12pm

Christians should be wishing others "Merry Christmas" and not waiting on -- and rating -- the world to say it to us. There are certainly events in our society to become upset about -- such as the elementary school boy who was suspended for drawing a crucifix -- but holiday
greetings should not be among them.

by: ShazamMan

12-17-2009 @ 8:12pm

Christians should be wishing others "Merry Christmas" and not waiting on -- and rating -- the world to say it to us. There are certainly events in our society to become upset about -- such as the elementary school boy who was suspended for drawing a crucifix -- but holiday
greetings should not be among them.

by: N0el

12-17-2009 @ 9:45pm

I am a regional church office secretary, and I tell all our pastors & members that I hope they have "wonderful holidays."

This is because the pastors have to celebrate 3 Sunday services including Advent church season as well as Christmas church season, "Blue Christmas" (or Longest Night; meditational services for those mourning losses in the midst of everyone else's cheer), Christmas Eve (services), Christmas Day (services), New Year's (services), not to mention all the "Ladies' Holiday Teas," fundraising events by partner non-profits, church dinner events for the community, and other church committees' planned Advent activities. And the pastors & members are supposed to celebrate all of them.

So campaigning to limit all that to only "Merry Christmas" is a phenomenal waste of precious time and resources -- because the campaigners are spending time & resources which could be applied to feeding the homeless or other mission to make their neighborhood better. Give us all a break. Using God's gift of common sense would make God far more happy.

To you, tho, Happy Holidays ... go & sin not ... <grin>

by: N0el

12-17-2009 @ 9:45pm

I am a regional church office secretary, and I tell all our pastors & members that I hope they have "wonderful holidays."

This is because the pastors have to celebrate 3 Sunday services including Advent church season as well as Christmas church season, "Blue Christmas" (or Longest Night; meditational services for those mourning losses in the midst of everyone else's cheer), Christmas Eve (services), Christmas Day (services), New Year's (services), not to mention all the "Ladies' Holiday Teas," fundraising events by partner non-profits, church dinner events for the community, and other church committees' planned Advent activities. And the pastors & members are supposed to celebrate all of them.

So campaigning to limit all that to only "Merry Christmas" is a phenomenal waste of precious time and resources -- because the campaigners are spending time & resources which could be applied to feeding the homeless or other mission to make their neighborhood better. Give us all a break. Using God's gift of common sense would make God far more happy.

To you, tho, Happy Holidays ... go & sin not ... <grin>

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-17-2009 @ 10:57pm

Why did you have to use filthy trashy language in your blog?

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-17-2009 @ 10:57pm

Why did you have to use filthy trashy language in your blog?

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-17-2009 @ 11:00pm

What does "Christ-Mas(s)" have to do with the Birth of Jesus?

There is no "Christmas" in the Bible.

by: Joe_Allen_Doty

12-17-2009 @ 11:00pm

What does "Christ-Mas(s)" have to do with the Birth of Jesus?

There is no "Christmas" in the Bible.

by: PASTOR JEFF

12-17-2009 @ 11:30pm

You would expect something more ethically meaningful from an organization built by the Coors family and supported by Blackwater.

by: PASTOR JEFF

12-17-2009 @ 11:30pm

You would expect something more ethically meaningful from an organization built by the Coors family and supported by Blackwater.

by: thandi87

12-17-2009 @ 11:36pm

I agree with this blogger's thoughts. And rating companies on this rather than human-rights-friendliness is simply ridiculous and shameful, it's true.

And I don't mind the swearing in this context.

by: thandi87

12-17-2009 @ 11:36pm

I agree with this blogger's thoughts. And rating companies on this rather than human-rights-friendliness is simply ridiculous and shameful, it's true.

And I don't mind the swearing in this context.

by: SisterMarie

12-17-2009 @ 11:40pm

"Blackwater" has changed its name to Xi (pronounced ZE).

But I get your point. Dobson's pre-election rant is consistent with their shrill bias. They are a political organization pretending to be a religious body.

by: SisterMarie

12-17-2009 @ 11:40pm

"Blackwater" has changed its name to Xi (pronounced ZE).

But I get your point. Dobson's pre-election rant is consistent with their shrill bias. They are a political organization pretending to be a religious body.

by: melanienlee

12-18-2009 @ 12:15am

I'm posting this article to my Facebook account. I get sick of "Christians" who get upset over whether or not the world is catering to our beliefs, and forget about those whose lives, health, livelihood, or freedom is in danger.

BTW, the expressions are "strain and gnat and swallow a camel", and "trying to take the speck out of your brother's eye while you have a log in your own".

by: melanienlee

12-18-2009 @ 12:15am

I'm posting this article to my Facebook account. I get sick of "Christians" who get upset over whether or not the world is catering to our beliefs, and forget about those whose lives, health, livelihood, or freedom is in danger.

BTW, the expressions are "strain and gnat and swallow a camel", and "trying to take the speck out of your brother's eye while you have a log in your own".

by: kellmackz

12-18-2009 @ 7:21am

i have to admit that i agree with everything she said. despite the somewhat offensive language, which isn't as offensive as exploiting other people in order to gain cheap stuff, the point she was trying to make was certainly well expressed. i kept thinking back to this book i read called "disposable people" by kevin bales. i definitely recommend it for anyone who's more interested.

by: kellmackz

12-18-2009 @ 7:21am

i have to admit that i agree with everything she said. despite the somewhat offensive language, which isn't as offensive as exploiting other people in order to gain cheap stuff, the point she was trying to make was certainly well expressed. i kept thinking back to this book i read called "disposable people" by kevin bales. i definitely recommend it for anyone who's more interested.

by: Strings12

12-18-2009 @ 8:11am

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by: Strings12

12-18-2009 @ 8:11am

I should say that it's my first time to visit your blog, however, I can directly know that it contains so many useful thing. Keep up the good work I think you should try Colon Cleanse atleast once

by: SisterMarie

12-18-2009 @ 10:02am

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by: SisterMarie

12-18-2009 @ 10:02am

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by: creativepowerhouse

12-18-2009 @ 12:10pm

One might also argue that time spent blogging and commenting on blogs might better be spent feeding the poor and fighting slavery. None of us are innocent in this matter. And the American people are ignorant of which corporations use slave labor and which ones don't. We need information so that we can make wise purchasing decisions. Now THAT would be a blog worth reading!

Also, I have found Focus on the Family's website to be fair and biased regarding ministry to pregnant teens and their parents. Compassionate, generous with resources, and helpful. Their Truth Project dvd series helps supplant the mediocre religious pablum within our teenagers' hearts with real knowledge about truth, worldview, and doctrine. Focus on the Family is not solely about this one issue. Dig deeper before criticizing. I wager none of us is squeaky clean in every single area of our lives. Our very brokenness is what makes us human and binds us to one another. Let's pray for Dobson's ministry and stop pointing out his imperfections.

by: creativepowerhouse

12-18-2009 @ 12:10pm

One might also argue that time spent blogging and commenting on blogs might better be spent feeding the poor and fighting slavery. None of us are innocent in this matter. And the American people are ignorant of which corporations use slave labor and which ones don't. We need information so that we can make wise purchasing decisions. Now THAT would be a blog worth reading!

Also, I have found Focus on the Family's website to be fair and biased regarding ministry to pregnant teens and their parents. Compassionate, generous with resources, and helpful. Their Truth Project dvd series helps supplant the mediocre religious pablum within our teenagers' hearts with real knowledge about truth, worldview, and doctrine. Focus on the Family is not solely about this one issue. Dig deeper before criticizing. I wager none of us is squeaky clean in every single area of our lives. Our very brokenness is what makes us human and binds us to one another. Let's pray for Dobson's ministry and stop pointing out his imperfections.

by: squeaky

12-18-2009 @ 8:26pm

Dang. Now I want to know what Strings12 said!

by: squeaky

12-18-2009 @ 8:26pm

Dang. Now I want to know what Strings12 said!

by: kansasmennonite

12-19-2009 @ 12:38pm

Was it your church's sunday school class? How did you respond?

by: kansasmennonite

12-19-2009 @ 12:38pm

Was it your church's sunday school class? How did you respond?

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 3:16pm

Yes it was the SS class in my church.

There's a lot misconception of the law regarding prayer in school, and some
feeling of pressure not to say "Merry Christmas." I tried to clarify the
law. that government cannot sponsor religion, but cannot prohibit free
exercise, even in school where it does not disrupt others or infringe on
others freedom of religion. But most of those present want preferential
treatment for Christianity in government and society at large.

I asked who was the first US President to declare the US not a Christian
nation. No one would hazard a guess, so I told them it was John Adams, the
second President, when he signed the Treaty of Tripoli. One guy said,
"Charles, you read different history books than I do." Which is of course
true.

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 3:16pm

Yes it was the SS class in my church.

There's a lot misconception of the law regarding prayer in school, and some
feeling of pressure not to say "Merry Christmas." I tried to clarify the
law. that government cannot sponsor religion, but cannot prohibit free
exercise, even in school where it does not disrupt others or infringe on
others freedom of religion. But most of those present want preferential
treatment for Christianity in government and society at large.

I asked who was the first US President to declare the US not a Christian
nation. No one would hazard a guess, so I told them it was John Adams, the
second President, when he signed the Treaty of Tripoli. One guy said,
"Charles, you read different history books than I do." Which is of course
true.

by: kansasmennonite

12-20-2009 @ 5:48pm

I went to a private christian high school and when we went back there to play a game I was looking at things from a different perspective (an outsider). They had a time of prayer before the big game. Yes, they had the right to prayer and thought they were being a witness but sometimes that freedom needs to show restraint. I believe it would have been more of a witness to not pray in certain instances.

Thanks for your detailed analysis of your SS. Did you change any minds?

by: kansasmennonite

12-20-2009 @ 5:48pm

I went to a private christian high school and when we went back there to play a game I was looking at things from a different perspective (an outsider). They had a time of prayer before the big game. Yes, they had the right to prayer and thought they were being a witness but sometimes that freedom needs to show restraint. I believe it would have been more of a witness to not pray in certain instances.

Thanks for your detailed analysis of your SS. Did you change any minds?

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 7:32pm

I made at least one guy think about it. Really I can understand the nostalgia. Our town used to be almost totally WASP. Now it's 40% or more Hispanic and about 7% black. Hispanics are a majority in the school system. So it's not just prayer in school and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays. It's a sea change in the culture. And people wish it could just be the way it once was. But of course it can't.

by: ckgmail

12-20-2009 @ 7:32pm

I made at least one guy think about it. Really I can understand the nostalgia. Our town used to be almost totally WASP. Now it's 40% or more Hispanic and about 7% black. Hispanics are a majority in the school system. So it's not just prayer in school and Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays. It's a sea change in the culture. And people wish it could just be the way it once was. But of course it can't.