You Shall Know the Truth

amazing to speak of truth then get all this whos to blame. greed is to blame. which starts with you and me and goes all the way up. including our president and congress and senate and republicans and democrates. truth seems to be relative to your understanding of it anymnore. what about morals, THE REAL PROBLEM today not wall street. Jesus came to help us through the spirit in us to be like christ. thats what we should teach. MORALS. I think sojo should think of this if they wish to include God in there political thinking. Why they think they can make our politica religious and moral is beyond me, just makes them look silly and just another group to argue with, which I do sadly becasue I honestly disagree with them most of the time, I am conservative and my political and religious views are just different. So I am the bad wrong guy. SEE the problem. Jesus wasnt sent here for this. Its a PERSONAL relationship, someday we will be shown the real truth.

Read the prophets. They were vicious in attacking unjust "profits." So yes this is about God's Politics.

$180 billion for the rich, and the people grumble a little. Imagine the reaction if it were announced that $180 billion would go into establishing real (non-punitive) welfare for our poor! We do have our priorities...

"Modern economists, most of whom aren't Christians, consider it a miracle."

Please cite 5 who do so, with sufficient bibliographical info.

"with tens of millions of people unemployed and home foreclosures growing, we deserve to know how and by whose decisions this happened in order to hold them accountable" -- Look primarily to the Democratic Party with Barney Frank and a host of senators who received huge political contributions from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which they had directed to begin providing bad loans. For blame, look there. Also, then Senator Obama, from what I understand, was one of the biggest recipients of contributions from Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac. It seems that those on the take would not address the unfolding calamity that was just around the corner, a calamity that the Bush administration tried to address, but was shot down. I think there is something in the Bible about "the love of money being the root of all evil." I get the feeling that unless God pours out some serious mercy on our nation, we are toast. God help us.

The federal government should have let AIG fail, along with any other institution failing at the time the TARP bailout fund was passed by Congress. TARP was and still is unconstitutional.

Too many former Goldman Sachs people are entrenched in the fedreal government. Hank Paulsen should be the first one investigated in this whole mess.

The best book on the causes of the crisis is "Meltdown: A Free-Market Look at Why the Stock Market Collapsed" byThomas E. Woods Jr.

Here are some other links to articles by economists on the causes of the crisis:

http://fee.org/videos/financial-crisis-part-1-p...

and "Credit Crunch: the Anatomy of a Crisis" at

http://www.adamsmith.org/images/stories/credit-...

The U.S. government was equally complicit via Fannie, Freddie, and HUD. Look to the Community Reinvestment Act initiated under Carter and the strengthening of that act under Clinton. Banks that red-lined were threatened with penalties.

Blaming AIG for this economic crisis is like blaming a runny nose for a cold.

Ah, finding people to blame. Count me as one of the guilty ones when you put together your list. I was an "idol worshiper" in the Washington/Wall Street/Main Street financial system and now I'm drinking golden-calf-Tang stirred into my drink for breakfast. Yes, you've listed the names. Don't forget to add Duhsciple's name!

Are you a free market fundamentalist or a Jesus economics (Matthew 25 sheep and the goats) fundamentalist?

Eliot Spitzer? Are you kidding me? Was one of his prostitutes quoted in the article? She was paid with public funds after all.

And will you be calling for an investigation of Barney Frank in this entire mess? Since he is 100% funded by public funds??? How about Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac????

Hammerud, normally you on the right attack Obama and the 'democrats' for the wrong reasons; this time you're attacking them for the right reasons, that he's staying George Bush's course

Both! I believe in the fundamentals of the faith (Virgin birth, Jesus is God, etc.), fundamental investing, emphasizing the fundamentals in football (blocking and tackling) and the fundamentals of economics. I definately believe that giving to the poor should be a major commitment of Christians. However, economic science has discovered a better way to help the poor by creating jobs that pay well. That's how China has lifted hundreds of millions out of abject poverty. Charity had nothing to do with it.

Someone needs to defend AIG. It and the banks that failed followed the rules. Anyone who says they didn't is just ignorant or lying. They invested in top grade securities, AAA and AA rated. And they followed all of the state regulations and banking regulations. The guv forced banks to switch to the Basel accords on banking for the very reason that everyone thought that they prevented risk. So how did all of these "safe" investments go bad? The price of housing collapsed when the Feds quit pumping huge amounts of money into the economy. It's econ 101.

You really took this verse out of context... completely. "You shall know the truth" refers to the truth of Jesus Christ being God in flesh. And it is that truth that will set all of us "free." If you read the verse in context (John 8), you'll see that it has NOTHING to do with accountability or the law of reaping and sowing, which is what you are talking about.

The way you have used this verse in order to point a finger at Wall Street "evil" is almost sacreligious consideirng what the verse really refers to.

The best book on the causes of the crisis is "Meltdown: A Free-Market Look at Why the Stock Market Collapsed" byThomas E. Woods Jr.

Here are some other links to articles by economists on the causes of the crisis:

http://fee.org/videos/financial-crisis-part-1-p...

and "Credit Crunch: the Anatomy of a Crisis" at

http://www.adamsmith.org/images/stories/credit-...

To clarify.

Spitzer's character is questionable, yes. He was the public figure.

The prostitutes' character, no. Your words were, "Was one of his prostitutes quoted in the article?" Why bring them into it?

Not me, defending AIG!

What you were doing was engaging in the logical fallacy known as ad hominem. What that means is you were using Spitzer's questionable morals as an argument for ignoring AIG's alleged shady activities. You can't do that if you want to argue logically and convincingly. Spitzer's personal bad behavior has no bearing on whether AIG behaved badly. If you want to argue that AIG is not blameworthy, you may do so, but base it on what you know of AIG and their activities.

I believe that God can change attitudes, but neither I nor the state can. The poor, by definition, cannot make it on their own; they will always require charity. We cannot eliminate poverty; even Jesus admitted that.

What I find really interesting about people who claim to love the poor and are working to eliminate poverty is that they have nothing but contempt for the Chinese miracle. China has lifted more people out of poverty than any charity or state-forced redistribution, but so-called defenders of the poor can't see it. I think that's because charity had nothing to do with it and freer markets did. The hatred of free markets blinds people to the Chinese miracle. We should be praising God for those lifted out of poverty in China, not castigating them.

My comment was addressed to shirley2010, not to you.

The Truth is the Person, Jesus Christ.

In this Person I meet Someone who shines in the darkness, including the darkness of our financial system where robber barons continue to roam free. May the Truth shine the Light on our demonic system!

Are you a free market fundamentalist or a Jesus economics (Matthew 25 sheep and the goats) fundamentalist?