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The Nazareth Declaration

On November 20, 2009, to considerable media fanfare, a group of 140 senior Christian leaders issued 'The Manhattan Declaration.' In brief, it calls for Christians to defend three "fundamental truths about justice and the common good":

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  1. the sanctity of human life,
  2. the dignity of marriage as the conjugal union of husband and wife, and
  3. the right of evangelicals to protest the first two items without recrimination.

It is germane also to note that in media quotes, as in various other interactions over the last several years, some of the prime movers this declaration intend it as a corrective for the rising generation of evangelicals. These are the core concerns for our time, the Declaration maintains, concerned that the recent broadening of social, economic, and political engagement will lead to a dilution of efforts over these three issues.

In matters of social practice, economic policy, and political engagement

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by: jonabark

01-03-2010 @ 9:01pm

"Africa, far above any other place, has been the home of statist, left-wing economics, and it shows."

What complete nonsense( or , if you will, generalities unsupported by examples or other supporting evidence); the native populations were not prospering under colonialism and neither are the post colonial governments exemplary of left wing economic policies. Your selective choices are not elaborated enough to offer a meaningful interpretation, nor do they have enough historic context. They appear to be selected to support either racism or some similar variant rationalization for imperialism.

by: PASTOR JEFF

01-04-2010 @ 1:32am

Drill, baby, drill!

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01-04-2010 @ 4:51pm

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by: Montjoie

01-06-2010 @ 3:39am

Economic poppycock. In refutation I offer the fall of Imperial England, the fall of Imperial Japan, etc. If having resources was the whole of it, no empire would ever fail.

by: Montjoie

01-06-2010 @ 3:40am

Most intelligent thing I've heard you say.

by: PASTOR JEFF

01-06-2010 @ 1:32pm

Only because you measure intelligence by the Palin standard.

by: Montjoie

01-06-2010 @ 2:00pm

No, actually, I don't. Nice try though.

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by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 4:38pm

Evangelicals have historically placed too little emphasis on helping the poor. The Bible talks far more about helping the poor and establishing justice than it does about evangelism. I think the reason is that we have little control over how people respond to the gospel, but we have all of the control over our efforts to help the poor.

However, it's important to remember that God's promise of material prosperity and physical healing in Isaiah depends upon the people being spiritually healed first. That provides an important lesson for today. We should help the non-Christian poor as much as we help Christian poor, but keep in mind that until spiritual healing takes place, not much will change with the non-Christian poor. Most poverty in the world is caused by traditional, closed states as described by economist Douglass North and the New Institutional School of Economics. In the traditional state, the leader (usually a king, but also called Caesar, general or dictator) maintains his rule and power by giving a small group of loyalists (usually the nobility, but also army officers) the freedom to plunder the rest of the population with impunity. The traditional state has been the dominant state since the beginning of history and still dominates in today's world. And it's the major cause of world poverty.

In modern, open societies of the West, poverty often follows sinful behavior resulting from spiritual illness.

by: BlueDeacon

01-09-2010 @ 4:24am

Because many of those folks leave a lot of stuff out. (In fact, I'm also
often hard on "my own side" for watering things down.) Oh, and my
"interpretation" of Christianity was pretty standard until, say, the 1950s,
even by "mainliners." Part of the problem is the cultural acceptance of
Christianity, which often has a liberalizing effect.

by: worldrimroamer

01-09-2010 @ 4:11am

You are aware, I would suppose (you seem to be fairly knowledgeable), that there are many, many truly devout Christians, including lay Christians, protestant ministers, Anglican and Catholic priests, and entire churches all across America who would disagree with much of, or almost all of, what you say. You espouse (apparently) a fundamentalist right-wing interpretation of Christianity. There are so many Christians that disagree with you, I therefore ask you this: Why or how is it that you think your specific interpretation of the Bible somehow trumps the beliefs and interpretation of other Christians just as smart and devout as you are?

Your comment about science in Muslim-dominated lands has nothing to do with where, how, and why science actually originated.

As to you use of the term "in that day" I can only say to you: The here and now is not "in that day" (bronze age), it is "in this day" (the age of cosmology, particle physics, ZFC mathematical logic, ... and yes, secular humanism).

by: Montjoie

01-06-2010 @ 3:39am

Economic poppycock. In refutation I offer the fall of Imperial England, the fall of Imperial Japan, etc. If having resources was the whole of it, no empire would ever fail.

by: BlueDeacon

01-09-2010 @ 3:30am

I'm still not impressed. I started out my college career as an engineering
major, which is actually quite popular in evangelical circles (more so than
the humanities). And in fact, much science was developed in Muslim-dominated
lands, so you simply cannot call that being begun by "secular humanists."
Most Christians reject any such "reproductive right" for women and do not
accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, especially because in that day it
was regarded as a form of idolatry. In fact, have you noticed that it exists
only in industrial societies? There are reasons for that.

by: BlueDeacon

01-09-2010 @ 2:24am

Because many of those folks leave a lot of stuff out. (In fact, I'm also
often hard on "my own side" for watering things down.) Oh, and my
"interpretation" of Christianity was pretty standard until, say, the 1950s,
even by "mainliners." Part of the problem is the cultural acceptance of
Christianity, which often has a liberalizing effect.

by: Montjoie

01-06-2010 @ 3:40am

Most intelligent thing I've heard you say.

by: worldrimroamer

01-09-2010 @ 3:18am

No, what I said does not show that; you just don't know how much I do or do not know.

I am quite aware of the profound role that King and other ministers, and the SCLC, etc. played in the civil rights movement. I'm also familiar with the role played by Malcom X, Eldridge Cleaver, etc., who were not particularly (or sometimes not at all) associated with the Christian church. I am less familiar with the church's backing of the feminist movement, but you're certainly right that the feminist movement was not backed by the majority of the church people (and not by the Bible, either). But secular humanism is linked (correctly or incorrectly) by the Christian right-wing with, among many other things, things like the ERA and lesbian rights and a woman's right to control her own reproduction system (and hence her own life).

And you're right, Galileo can probably not be accurately called a secular humanist in his own right, but the science he helped discover is, it its own right, secular humanism.

As for your not being a fan of gay rights, I knew you would say that, of course. But you know, don't you? that Jesus taught love and inclusion, not hate and repression.

by: nuclearferret

12-30-2009 @ 5:12pm

Having multiple authors does not make for good writing in this case. You could have been much more concise in your criticism, which is already on record anyway, of the Manhattan Declaration and moved on to your points about the "Nazareth Declaration" more quickly. Your point is evangelicals do not do enough about poverty and social ills; their point is progressives do too little about life at its onset in allowing for an acceptable level of abortions, as one of their issues. The same sex marriage issue is not even interesting, but since they want to take it up, I suppose that is their right.

by: worldrimroamer

01-09-2010 @ 2:11am

You are aware, I would suppose (you seem to be fairly knowledgeable), that there are many, many truly devout Christians, including lay Christians, protestant ministers, Anglican and Catholic priests, and entire churches all across America who would disagree with much of, or almost all of, what you say. You espouse (apparently) a fundamentalist right-wing interpretation of Christianity. There are so many Christians that disagree with you, I therefore ask you this: Why or how is it that you think your specific interpretation of the Bible somehow trumps the beliefs and interpretation of other Christians just as smart and devout as you are?

Your comment about science in Muslim-dominated lands has nothing to do with where, how, and why science actually originated.

As to you use of the term "in that day" I can only say to you: The here and now is not "in that day" (bronze age), it is "in this day" (the age of cosmology, particle physics, ZFC mathematical logic, ... and yes, secular humanism).

by: BlueDeacon

01-09-2010 @ 1:30am

I'm still not impressed. I started out my college career as an engineering
major, which is actually quite popular in evangelical circles (more so than
the humanities). And in fact, much science was developed in Muslim-dominated
lands, so you simply cannot call that being begun by "secular humanists."
Most Christians reject any such "reproductive right" for women and do not
accept homosexuality as a valid lifestyle, especially because in that day it
was regarded as a form of idolatry. In fact, have you noticed that it exists
only in industrial societies? There are reasons for that.

by: worldrimroamer

01-09-2010 @ 1:18am

No, what I said does not show that; you just don't know how much I do or do not know.

I am quite aware of the profound role that King and other ministers, and the SCLC, etc. played in the civil rights movement. I'm also familiar with the role played by Malcom X, Eldridge Cleaver, etc., who were not particularly (or sometimes not at all) associated with the Christian church. I am less familiar with the church's backing of the feminist movement, but you're certainly right that the feminist movement was not backed by the majority of the church people (and not by the Bible, either). But secular humanism is linked (correctly or incorrectly) by the Christian right-wing with, among many other things, things like the ERA and lesbian rights and a woman's right to control her own reproduction system (and hence her own life).

And you're right, Galileo can probably not be accurately called a secular humanist in his own right, but the science he helped discover is, it its own right, secular humanism.

As for your not being a fan of gay rights, I knew you would say that, of course. But you know, don't you? that Jesus taught love and inclusion, not hate and repression.

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by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 5:45pm

Back when the Manhattan Declaration came out I read a news article about it where Chuck Colson was quoted saying something to the effect of "the purpose is to let the younger generation of evangelicals know there is a prioritization of issues they should be concerned about - namely these three. Colson's quote concerned me. (Ben Lowe alludes to this in the opening of his piece.) I then went on to read the actual Declaration. This was a month or so ago, but I don't remember the actual Declaration saying anything about a priority of issues or speaking to younger evangelicals. There was nothing in the actual Declaration with which I had a problem; it was just Colson's characterization of it that concerned me.

Ben is right that Christians shouldn't prioritize the issues we consider important. One Christian might work to alleviate poverty while another might care for the sick and a third might support expectant mothers so that they don't choose abortion. None of these is better or more worthwhile than the other. We all have our callings.

by: BlueDeacon

01-09-2010 @ 12:02am

With all due respect, that shows how little you truly know. By that standard
secular humanists also brought forth the Protestant Reformation, which is
ridiculous. And the majority of founders of this country were not secularists
(though they were not as religious as many of us Christians often believe).
The civil-rights movement started in the black church; the feminist movement
before the 1960s also had spiritual backing (though not by the majority). And
I am no fan of gay rights, so that means nothing to me.

And finally, just for hoots, let's recall that secular humanism finally
embarrassed the Pope of Rome into forgiving Galileo around
nineteen-ninety-something (just a few years ago), and the Pope admitted that
Galileo was right after all: The Pope actually declared to the world press
that the earth really does go around the sun (contrary to what the Bible
says).

But Galileo was no secular humanist in his own right.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 5:59pm

I think you and Ben Lowe both make an important point about spiritual healing combined with physical healing. We all need both.

Ben writes: "Jesus teaches the gospel and he acts the gospel. Moreover, when he acts the gospel, he does so by addressing both spiritual and physical ailments (though admittedly such a distinction may be anachronistic), both demon-possession and physical illness."

The problem I see in our society is that too many people, Christians included, look immediately to the central government for physical healing without considering the fact that the central government cannot do spiritual healing. Lots of politicians promise it, but none deliver. The fact that so many people look to the state for healing also says something about Christians and our inattention to the suffering in our communities.

by: worldrimroamer

01-08-2010 @ 7:57pm

You write: "the secular humanists are dead wrong in my book and have virtually nothing to offer as it is, so I don't particularly care how they feel about Christianity."

OK, I'll remind you. Here is a very short list from the vast body of contributions that the secular humanists have had to offer over over the last few centuries:
- The Renaissance
- The Enlightenment
- The U.S. constitution and the Bill of Rights
- Democracy
- The scientific revolution
- The realization that the earth is a 4.5-billion-year-old giant ball of rock that is free-falling in an elliptical orbit around an average star
- Equality (well, sort of) for women
- Rights for minorities, including homosexuals
- And finally, just for hoots, let's recall that secular humanism finally embarrassed the Pope of Rome into forgiving Galileo around nineteen-ninety-something (just a few years ago), and the Pope admitted that Galileo was right after all: The Pope actually declared to the world press that the earth really does go around the sun (contrary to what the Bible says). LMAO. What a hoot! Bye bye now.

by: BlueDeacon

12-30-2009 @ 6:15pm

The fact that so many people look to the state for healing also says something about Christians and our inattention to the suffering in our communities.

It's worse than that -- too often Christians have been themselves the oppressors, focusing upon cultural authority rather than ministry. The only time when they've actually complained about government is when they weren't the only ones benefiting from it. I still believe that the civil-rights movement -- where one set of Christians was doing battle with another set of Christians -- was a black mark on the American church in general.

by: BlueDeacon

01-07-2010 @ 3:08pm

Why in the world are you here? This is a Christian blog, but you come here and deny essential tenets of the Christian faith and expect us to respect that? Not happening.

I just happen to have a lot of respect for the man (Jesus). You're just believing what you want to believe -- an extremist fundamentalist viewpoint.

I actually have more evidence for what I believe about Jesus than you do. And BTW, He demands worship, not just "respect." If you read your Bible the way you said you did, you'd understand that.

But judging from your previous copious manifestations of dogma and anti-intellectualism, I'm afraid that I'm not misinterpreting it.

You are joking, right? Because if you read my previous posts on this blog, you will notice that I'm quite the intellectual and in fact come from the Reformed tradition of Christianity. Anti-intellectual? Please. I'm just not post-modern in that I don't believe that all "truth" has equal validity.

So you're mean-spirited, too? That's real Christlike, ha ha.

If you saw me in person you wouldn't think I was so "mean-spirited." However, someone said to President Truman, "Give 'em hell, Harry!", to which he responded, "I'm not giving them hell. I'm telling the truth and they think it's hell."

You are a poster child for exactly the kind of mentality that gives Christianity a bad name among the secular humanists of the world. This is very unfortunate.

Well, the secular humanists are dead wrong in my book and have virtually nothing to offer as it is, so I don't particularly care how they feel about Christianity. You have to subscribe to a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty to be a secular humanist anyway, so trying to reason with one would be like talking to a brick wall.

by: BlueDeacon

12-30-2009 @ 6:16pm

Martin Luther King Jr. would call that nonsense.

by: worldrimroamer

01-06-2010 @ 11:20pm

BlueDeacon:

You wrote: "you don't want to deal with Jesus Christ as absolute, unconditional LORD "

It's not that I don't want to deal with it. I simply understand that Jesus was/is NOT that. He was a late iron-age Jew born in a barn on the west bank of the Jordan River. I just happen to have a lot of respect for the man (Jesus). You're just believing what you want to believe -- an extremist fundamentalist viewpoint.

You wrote: "and even Lao-Tzu understands that now."

Wow, BlueDeacon, I don't even want to go there. Ordinarily, I would hope that I am misinterpreting what you mean by that. But judging from your previous copious manifestations of dogma and anti-intellectualism, I'm afraid that I'm not misinterpreting it. So you're mean-spirited, too? That's real Christlike, ha ha.

You wrote: "Again: Case closed. It's Jesus or nothing."

Keep braying. I cannot stop you. Bray away. You are a poster child for exactly the kind of mentality that gives Christianity a bad name among the secular humanists of the world. This is very unfortunate. Consider this irony: I may actually respect Jesus Christ more than you do.

by: BlueDeacon

01-06-2010 @ 9:59pm

Then what do you do with Jesus' post-resurrection statement to His disciples
that "All authority under heaven and earth has been given to Me"? See, the
problem is not my bigotry -- in essence, it's yours because you
don't want to deal with Jesus Christ as absolute, unconditional LORD (and even
Lao-Tzu understands that now). See, you want to make Him according to your
philosophy, and that just doesn't work.

Again: Case closed. It's Jesus or nothing.

by: PASTOR JEFF

01-06-2010 @ 1:32pm

Only because you measure intelligence by the Palin standard.

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by: Montjoie

01-06-2010 @ 2:00pm

No, actually, I don't. Nice try though.

by: WaveTossed

12-30-2009 @ 7:25pm

I still have serious problems with the following section of the Manhatten Declaration:

"This is because the body is no mere extrinsic instrument of the human person, but truly part of the personal reality of the human being. Human beings are not merely centers of consciousness or emotion, or minds, or spirits, inhabiting non-personal bodies. The human person is a dynamic unity of body, mind, and spirit. Marriage is what one man and one woman establish when, forsaking all others and pledging lifelong commitment, they found a sharing of life at every level of being-the biological, the emotional, the dispositional, the rational, the spiritual- on a commitment that is sealed, completed and actualized by loving sexual intercourse in which the spouses become one flesh, not in some merely metaphorical sense, but by fulfilling together the behavioral conditions of procreation."

As I said in some earlier threads, the Manhatten Declaration spends several paragraphs, an entire section of the physical characteristics of the body, emphasizing that over the spiritual characteristics of life-long, faithful love and devotion that a couple has for each other. Particularly, the Manhatten Declaration emphasizes "fulfilling the behavioral conditions of procreation"

In this age of finite resources, procreation does not take the all-important place that the Manhatten Declaration gives to it. I work in animal rescue and our drive is less procreation and more spaying and neutering so there will no longer be unwanted, homeless animals.

I'm not saying here that humans need to all get spayed or neutered. But in today's world, we need less, not more emphasis on physical/bodily aspects and procreation and more emphasis on spiritual aspects: among other things, taking care of the people who are already here. There really should be less consideration for procreation and more consideration for adoption of homeless children.

Jesus says (in Luke, quoted from the article above):

8"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, 21 and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

Not procreation here. Instead, preaching the good news to the poor and the release of the oppressed.

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 8:19pm

Some might go so far as to suggest that Christians have different gifts from the Holy Spirit!

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 8:22pm

The lack of spiritual healing is the reason that development work in poor countries is so very frustrating. Take Africa, for example. 50 years of intense development efforts and trillions of dollars in aid and the continent is worse off.

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by: ford49

12-30-2009 @ 10:13pm

From my perspective, the Manhattan Declaration is a veiled attestation of membership in the Republican Party or religious right. If that's your thing so be it...I think the call of Micah 6:8 more fully encompasses the responsibilities of Christians. I also think Ben piece is right on.

by: facebook-1234595114

12-30-2009 @ 11:24pm

It seems to me, the authors have over-simplified the message of the Manhattan Declaration. As with other declarations, the body of the document expounds and embellishes upon the primary statements... further defining what the succinct introductory statement really says and means. The statement about sanctity of life refers to much more than just the protection of the unborn child. It refers to all human life in all circumstances including work and personal life... quite consistent with treating workers with godly dignity and fairness. The article seems a backhanded attempt at redefining the Manhattan Declaration as a narrow fundamentalist rant of a few old codgers. Otherwise, I'm not even sure why the article was written except to kill time and fill space. If you want to compare declarations, the Sermon on the Mount may serve as a better framework. It's always difficult to make comparisons between the nation/kingdom of Israel and the kingdom-without-borders of Christianity and then extrapolating this to a secular/godless and corrupt US form of government.

At it's core, the human condition is a constant struggle against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Notice how Paul differentiates between rulers and authorities and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. This suggests that the rulers and authorities may refer to the earthly ones. The governments of men, maybe? Ours is not a flesh and blood struggle, though. The core of our problem as humans is a spiritual one played out in a physical world. Solve the spiritual problem... as people begin to know God and be known by Him... and the physical problems will get addressed... not necessarily solved. How many Christians died because of their faith? Often, our faith makes this world a much more difficult place in which to live peacefully. Can one be free as she physically rots in prison? Can one be oppressed while having a corner office on Wall Street?

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 12:23am

You forget, however, that the continent's resources were largely plundered a couple of centuries before that. And when you don't have access to resources you often act like a savage because you're living a "survival" mentality.

by: Brent Hardaway

12-31-2009 @ 2:41am

Having resources is hardly what leads to prosperity. Hong Kong has no resources to speak of, and imports virtually all of its food and water.

Africa still has oil, diamonds, and lots of beautiful scenery that should make it a major tourist magnet.

And as one author has put it -

"Moreover, most of the resources of such Third World nations as Zaire and the oil countries would never have been of any value at all were it not for Western discoveries and Western enterprise. 'In some of the countries of the Third World there would be far fewer resources had the West not actually brought them. The rubber trees of Malaysia did not originate anywhere in Asia

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 4:38pm

Evangelicals have historically placed too little emphasis on helping the poor. The Bible talks far more about helping the poor and establishing justice than it does about evangelism. I think the reason is that we have little control over how people respond to the gospel, but we have all of the control over our efforts to help the poor.

However, it's important to remember that God's promise of material prosperity and physical healing in Isaiah depends upon the people being spiritually healed first. That provides an important lesson for today. We should help the non-Christian poor as much as we help Christian poor, but keep in mind that until spiritual healing takes place, not much will change with the non-Christian poor. Most poverty in the world is caused by traditional, closed states as described by economist Douglass North and the New Institutional School of Economics. In the traditional state, the leader (usually a king, but also called Caesar, general or dictator) maintains his rule and power by giving a small group of loyalists (usually the nobility, but also army officers) the freedom to plunder the rest of the population with impunity. The traditional state has been the dominant state since the beginning of history and still dominates in today's world. And it's the major cause of world poverty.

In modern, open societies of the West, poverty often follows sinful behavior resulting from spiritual illness.

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by: PASTOR JEFF

12-31-2009 @ 2:10pm

"Having resources is hardly what leads to prosperity."

Economic poppycock.

In refutation I offer Imperial England, Imperial Japan, Imperial US, OPEC.

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 4:38pm

Evangelicals have historically placed too little emphasis on helping the poor. The Bible talks far more about helping the poor and establishing justice than it does about evangelism. I think the reason is that we have little control over how people respond to the gospel, but we have all of the control over our efforts to help the poor.

However, it's important to remember that God's promise of material prosperity and physical healing in Isaiah depends upon the people being spiritually healed first. That provides an important lesson for today. We should help the non-Christian poor as much as we help Christian poor, but keep in mind that until spiritual healing takes place, not much will change with the non-Christian poor. Most poverty in the world is caused by traditional, closed states as described by economist Douglass North and the New Institutional School of Economics. In the traditional state, the leader (usually a king, but also called Caesar, general or dictator) maintains his rule and power by giving a small group of loyalists (usually the nobility, but also army officers) the freedom to plunder the rest of the population with impunity. The traditional state has been the dominant state since the beginning of history and still dominates in today's world. And it's the major cause of world poverty.

In modern, open societies of the West, poverty often follows sinful behavior resulting from spiritual illness.

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 4:38pm

Evangelicals have historically placed too little emphasis on helping the poor. The Bible talks far more about helping the poor and establishing justice than it does about evangelism. I think the reason is that we have little control over how people respond to the gospel, but we have all of the control over our efforts to help the poor.

However, it's important to remember that God's promise of material prosperity and physical healing in Isaiah depends upon the people being spiritually healed first. That provides an important lesson for today. We should help the non-Christian poor as much as we help Christian poor, but keep in mind that until spiritual healing takes place, not much will change with the non-Christian poor. Most poverty in the world is caused by traditional, closed states as described by economist Douglass North and the New Institutional School of Economics. In the traditional state, the leader (usually a king, but also called Caesar, general or dictator) maintains his rule and power by giving a small group of loyalists (usually the nobility, but also army officers) the freedom to plunder the rest of the population with impunity. The traditional state has been the dominant state since the beginning of history and still dominates in today's world. And it's the major cause of world poverty.

In modern, open societies of the West, poverty often follows sinful behavior resulting from spiritual illness.

by: nuclearferret

12-30-2009 @ 5:12pm

Having multiple authors does not make for good writing in this case. You could have been much more concise in your criticism, which is already on record anyway, of the Manhattan Declaration and moved on to your points about the "Nazareth Declaration" more quickly. Your point is evangelicals do not do enough about poverty and social ills; their point is progressives do too little about life at its onset in allowing for an acceptable level of abortions, as one of their issues. The same sex marriage issue is not even interesting, but since they want to take it up, I suppose that is their right.

by: nuclearferret

12-30-2009 @ 5:12pm

Having multiple authors does not make for good writing in this case. You could have been much more concise in your criticism, which is already on record anyway, of the Manhattan Declaration and moved on to your points about the "Nazareth Declaration" more quickly. Your point is evangelicals do not do enough about poverty and social ills; their point is progressives do too little about life at its onset in allowing for an acceptable level of abortions, as one of their issues. The same sex marriage issue is not even interesting, but since they want to take it up, I suppose that is their right.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 5:45pm

Back when the Manhattan Declaration came out I read a news article about it where Chuck Colson was quoted saying something to the effect of "the purpose is to let the younger generation of evangelicals know there is a prioritization of issues they should be concerned about - namely these three. Colson's quote concerned me. (Ben Lowe alludes to this in the opening of his piece.) I then went on to read the actual Declaration. This was a month or so ago, but I don't remember the actual Declaration saying anything about a priority of issues or speaking to younger evangelicals. There was nothing in the actual Declaration with which I had a problem; it was just Colson's characterization of it that concerned me.

Ben is right that Christians shouldn't prioritize the issues we consider important. One Christian might work to alleviate poverty while another might care for the sick and a third might support expectant mothers so that they don't choose abortion. None of these is better or more worthwhile than the other. We all have our callings.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 5:45pm

Back when the Manhattan Declaration came out I read a news article about it where Chuck Colson was quoted saying something to the effect of "the purpose is to let the younger generation of evangelicals know there is a prioritization of issues they should be concerned about - namely these three. Colson's quote concerned me. (Ben Lowe alludes to this in the opening of his piece.) I then went on to read the actual Declaration. This was a month or so ago, but I don't remember the actual Declaration saying anything about a priority of issues or speaking to younger evangelicals. There was nothing in the actual Declaration with which I had a problem; it was just Colson's characterization of it that concerned me.

Ben is right that Christians shouldn't prioritize the issues we consider important. One Christian might work to alleviate poverty while another might care for the sick and a third might support expectant mothers so that they don't choose abortion. None of these is better or more worthwhile than the other. We all have our callings.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 5:59pm

I think you and Ben Lowe both make an important point about spiritual healing combined with physical healing. We all need both.

Ben writes: "Jesus teaches the gospel and he acts the gospel. Moreover, when he acts the gospel, he does so by addressing both spiritual and physical ailments (though admittedly such a distinction may be anachronistic), both demon-possession and physical illness."

The problem I see in our society is that too many people, Christians included, look immediately to the central government for physical healing without considering the fact that the central government cannot do spiritual healing. Lots of politicians promise it, but none deliver. The fact that so many people look to the state for healing also says something about Christians and our inattention to the suffering in our communities.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 5:59pm

I think you and Ben Lowe both make an important point about spiritual healing combined with physical healing. We all need both.

Ben writes: "Jesus teaches the gospel and he acts the gospel. Moreover, when he acts the gospel, he does so by addressing both spiritual and physical ailments (though admittedly such a distinction may be anachronistic), both demon-possession and physical illness."

The problem I see in our society is that too many people, Christians included, look immediately to the central government for physical healing without considering the fact that the central government cannot do spiritual healing. Lots of politicians promise it, but none deliver. The fact that so many people look to the state for healing also says something about Christians and our inattention to the suffering in our communities.

by: BlueDeacon

12-30-2009 @ 6:15pm

The fact that so many people look to the state for healing also says something about Christians and our inattention to the suffering in our communities.

It's worse than that -- too often Christians have been themselves the oppressors, focusing upon cultural authority rather than ministry. The only time when they've actually complained about government is when they weren't the only ones benefiting from it. I still believe that the civil-rights movement -- where one set of Christians was doing battle with another set of Christians -- was a black mark on the American church in general.

by: BlueDeacon

12-30-2009 @ 6:15pm

The fact that so many people look to the state for healing also says something about Christians and our inattention to the suffering in our communities.

It's worse than that -- too often Christians have been themselves the oppressors, focusing upon cultural authority rather than ministry. The only time when they've actually complained about government is when they weren't the only ones benefiting from it. I still believe that the civil-rights movement -- where one set of Christians was doing battle with another set of Christians -- was a black mark on the American church in general.

by: BlueDeacon

12-30-2009 @ 6:16pm

Martin Luther King Jr. would call that nonsense.

by: BlueDeacon

12-30-2009 @ 6:16pm

Martin Luther King Jr. would call that nonsense.

by: WaveTossed

12-30-2009 @ 7:25pm

I still have serious problems with the following section of the Manhatten Declaration:

"This is because the body is no mere extrinsic instrument of the human person, but truly part of the personal reality of the human being. Human beings are not merely centers of consciousness or emotion, or minds, or spirits, inhabiting non-personal bodies. The human person is a dynamic unity of body, mind, and spirit. Marriage is what one man and one woman establish when, forsaking all others and pledging lifelong commitment, they found a sharing of life at every level of being-the biological, the emotional, the dispositional, the rational, the spiritual- on a commitment that is sealed, completed and actualized by loving sexual intercourse in which the spouses become one flesh, not in some merely metaphorical sense, but by fulfilling together the behavioral conditions of procreation."

As I said in some earlier threads, the Manhatten Declaration spends several paragraphs, an entire section of the physical characteristics of the body, emphasizing that over the spiritual characteristics of life-long, faithful love and devotion that a couple has for each other. Particularly, the Manhatten Declaration emphasizes "fulfilling the behavioral conditions of procreation"

In this age of finite resources, procreation does not take the all-important place that the Manhatten Declaration gives to it. I work in animal rescue and our drive is less procreation and more spaying and neutering so there will no longer be unwanted, homeless animals.

I'm not saying here that humans need to all get spayed or neutered. But in today's world, we need less, not more emphasis on physical/bodily aspects and procreation and more emphasis on spiritual aspects: among other things, taking care of the people who are already here. There really should be less consideration for procreation and more consideration for adoption of homeless children.

Jesus says (in Luke, quoted from the article above):

8"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, 21 and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

Not procreation here. Instead, preaching the good news to the poor and the release of the oppressed.

by: WaveTossed

12-30-2009 @ 7:25pm

I still have serious problems with the following section of the Manhatten Declaration:

"This is because the body is no mere extrinsic instrument of the human person, but truly part of the personal reality of the human being. Human beings are not merely centers of consciousness or emotion, or minds, or spirits, inhabiting non-personal bodies. The human person is a dynamic unity of body, mind, and spirit. Marriage is what one man and one woman establish when, forsaking all others and pledging lifelong commitment, they found a sharing of life at every level of being-the biological, the emotional, the dispositional, the rational, the spiritual- on a commitment that is sealed, completed and actualized by loving sexual intercourse in which the spouses become one flesh, not in some merely metaphorical sense, but by fulfilling together the behavioral conditions of procreation."

As I said in some earlier threads, the Manhatten Declaration spends several paragraphs, an entire section of the physical characteristics of the body, emphasizing that over the spiritual characteristics of life-long, faithful love and devotion that a couple has for each other. Particularly, the Manhatten Declaration emphasizes "fulfilling the behavioral conditions of procreation"

In this age of finite resources, procreation does not take the all-important place that the Manhatten Declaration gives to it. I work in animal rescue and our drive is less procreation and more spaying and neutering so there will no longer be unwanted, homeless animals.

I'm not saying here that humans need to all get spayed or neutered. But in today's world, we need less, not more emphasis on physical/bodily aspects and procreation and more emphasis on spiritual aspects: among other things, taking care of the people who are already here. There really should be less consideration for procreation and more consideration for adoption of homeless children.

Jesus says (in Luke, quoted from the article above):

8"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, 21 and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

Not procreation here. Instead, preaching the good news to the poor and the release of the oppressed.

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 8:19pm

Some might go so far as to suggest that Christians have different gifts from the Holy Spirit!

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 8:19pm

Some might go so far as to suggest that Christians have different gifts from the Holy Spirit!

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 8:22pm

The lack of spiritual healing is the reason that development work in poor countries is so very frustrating. Take Africa, for example. 50 years of intense development efforts and trillions of dollars in aid and the continent is worse off.

by: fundamentalist

12-30-2009 @ 8:22pm

The lack of spiritual healing is the reason that development work in poor countries is so very frustrating. Take Africa, for example. 50 years of intense development efforts and trillions of dollars in aid and the continent is worse off.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 8:25pm

haha. True.

by: SamHamilton

12-30-2009 @ 8:25pm

haha. True.

by: ford49

12-30-2009 @ 10:13pm

From my perspective, the Manhattan Declaration is a veiled attestation of membership in the Republican Party or religious right. If that's your thing so be it...I think the call of Micah 6:8 more fully encompasses the responsibilities of Christians. I also think Ben piece is right on.

by: ford49

12-30-2009 @ 10:13pm

From my perspective, the Manhattan Declaration is a veiled attestation of membership in the Republican Party or religious right. If that's your thing so be it...I think the call of Micah 6:8 more fully encompasses the responsibilities of Christians. I also think Ben piece is right on.

by: facebook-1234595114

12-30-2009 @ 11:24pm

It seems to me, the authors have over-simplified the message of the Manhattan Declaration. As with other declarations, the body of the document expounds and embellishes upon the primary statements... further defining what the succinct introductory statement really says and means. The statement about sanctity of life refers to much more than just the protection of the unborn child. It refers to all human life in all circumstances including work and personal life... quite consistent with treating workers with godly dignity and fairness. The article seems a backhanded attempt at redefining the Manhattan Declaration as a narrow fundamentalist rant of a few old codgers. Otherwise, I'm not even sure why the article was written except to kill time and fill space. If you want to compare declarations, the Sermon on the Mount may serve as a better framework. It's always difficult to make comparisons between the nation/kingdom of Israel and the kingdom-without-borders of Christianity and then extrapolating this to a secular/godless and corrupt US form of government.

At it's core, the human condition is a constant struggle against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Notice how Paul differentiates between rulers and authorities and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. This suggests that the rulers and authorities may refer to the earthly ones. The governments of men, maybe? Ours is not a flesh and blood struggle, though. The core of our problem as humans is a spiritual one played out in a physical world. Solve the spiritual problem... as people begin to know God and be known by Him... and the physical problems will get addressed... not necessarily solved. How many Christians died because of their faith? Often, our faith makes this world a much more difficult place in which to live peacefully. Can one be free as she physically rots in prison? Can one be oppressed while having a corner office on Wall Street?

by: facebook-1234595114

12-30-2009 @ 11:24pm

It seems to me, the authors have over-simplified the message of the Manhattan Declaration. As with other declarations, the body of the document expounds and embellishes upon the primary statements... further defining what the succinct introductory statement really says and means. The statement about sanctity of life refers to much more than just the protection of the unborn child. It refers to all human life in all circumstances including work and personal life... quite consistent with treating workers with godly dignity and fairness. The article seems a backhanded attempt at redefining the Manhattan Declaration as a narrow fundamentalist rant of a few old codgers. Otherwise, I'm not even sure why the article was written except to kill time and fill space. If you want to compare declarations, the Sermon on the Mount may serve as a better framework. It's always difficult to make comparisons between the nation/kingdom of Israel and the kingdom-without-borders of Christianity and then extrapolating this to a secular/godless and corrupt US form of government.

At it's core, the human condition is a constant struggle against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Notice how Paul differentiates between rulers and authorities and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. This suggests that the rulers and authorities may refer to the earthly ones. The governments of men, maybe? Ours is not a flesh and blood struggle, though. The core of our problem as humans is a spiritual one played out in a physical world. Solve the spiritual problem... as people begin to know God and be known by Him... and the physical problems will get addressed... not necessarily solved. How many Christians died because of their faith? Often, our faith makes this world a much more difficult place in which to live peacefully. Can one be free as she physically rots in prison? Can one be oppressed while having a corner office on Wall Street?

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 12:23am

You forget, however, that the continent's resources were largely plundered a couple of centuries before that. And when you don't have access to resources you often act like a savage because you're living a "survival" mentality.

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 12:23am

You forget, however, that the continent's resources were largely plundered a couple of centuries before that. And when you don't have access to resources you often act like a savage because you're living a "survival" mentality.

by: Brent Hardaway

12-31-2009 @ 2:41am

Having resources is hardly what leads to prosperity. Hong Kong has no resources to speak of, and imports virtually all of its food and water.

Africa still has oil, diamonds, and lots of beautiful scenery that should make it a major tourist magnet.

And as one author has put it -

"Moreover, most of the resources of such Third World nations as Zaire and the oil countries would never have been of any value at all were it not for Western discoveries and Western enterprise. 'In some of the countries of the Third World there would be far fewer resources had the West not actually brought them. The rubber trees of Malaysia did not originate anywhere in Asia

by: Brent Hardaway

12-31-2009 @ 2:41am

Having resources is hardly what leads to prosperity. Hong Kong has no resources to speak of, and imports virtually all of its food and water.

Africa still has oil, diamonds, and lots of beautiful scenery that should make it a major tourist magnet.

And as one author has put it -

"Moreover, most of the resources of such Third World nations as Zaire and the oil countries would never have been of any value at all were it not for Western discoveries and Western enterprise. 'In some of the countries of the Third World there would be far fewer resources had the West not actually brought them. The rubber trees of Malaysia did not originate anywhere in Asia

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 3:34am

And just who is that author? Because it is also true that the "imperialists" sought only their own comfort and actually never taught the indigenous peoples to rule themselves and be a blessing to them. That's a big reason Africa is the way it is.

Africa, far above any other place, has been the home of statist, left-wing economics, and it shows.

Nope -- Europe still takes the cake there.

Fortunately, most of "The New Evangelicals" will see the light around age 30, and give it up, just as the 70s generation that went to college when Ron Sider was popular did.

Sider was never that popular, truth be told, and in fact has since engendered considerable resentment in conservative Christian circles for being truly holistic. We forget that being Christians actually costs us something -- and the people who say that don't get in "Christian" media.

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 3:34am

And just who is that author? Because it is also true that the "imperialists" sought only their own comfort and actually never taught the indigenous peoples to rule themselves and be a blessing to them. That's a big reason Africa is the way it is.

Africa, far above any other place, has been the home of statist, left-wing economics, and it shows.

Nope -- Europe still takes the cake there.

Fortunately, most of "The New Evangelicals" will see the light around age 30, and give it up, just as the 70s generation that went to college when Ron Sider was popular did.

Sider was never that popular, truth be told, and in fact has since engendered considerable resentment in conservative Christian circles for being truly holistic. We forget that being Christians actually costs us something -- and the people who say that don't get in "Christian" media.

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by: letjusticerolldown

12-31-2009 @ 3:56am

Just as you may weary of the writers of the Manhatten document "correcting" you--they may weary of your correction.

The identification of three fundamental issues is not a refutation of a broader agenda. They acknowledge a broader agenda. If you wish to challenge their focus I think it would be more legitimate, for example, to examine whether an ethic upholding the sanctity of human life to be related to a broader Luke 4 agenda.

I was born, bred, & nurtured in conservative evangelicalism and never understood Jesus as concerned solely with eternal salvation. Contributors on this blog who consistently hammer this point sound to me to be an awful lot like that which they criticize

by: letjusticerolldown

12-31-2009 @ 3:56am

Just as you may weary of the writers of the Manhatten document "correcting" you--they may weary of your correction.

The identification of three fundamental issues is not a refutation of a broader agenda. They acknowledge a broader agenda. If you wish to challenge their focus I think it would be more legitimate, for example, to examine whether an ethic upholding the sanctity of human life to be related to a broader Luke 4 agenda.

I was born, bred, & nurtured in conservative evangelicalism and never understood Jesus as concerned solely with eternal salvation. Contributors on this blog who consistently hammer this point sound to me to be an awful lot like that which they criticize

by: duhsciple

12-31-2009 @ 11:46am

To agree, yet move forward, "Africa's resources were and *are being* plundered." The resource rip off flow continues in one direction

by: duhsciple

12-31-2009 @ 11:46am

To agree, yet move forward, "Africa's resources were and *are being* plundered." The resource rip off flow continues in one direction

by: SamHamilton

12-31-2009 @ 12:31pm

Although, Ron Sider signed it. I don't think he fits neatly into that box.

by: SamHamilton

12-31-2009 @ 12:31pm

Although, Ron Sider signed it. I don't think he fits neatly into that box.

by: SamHamilton

12-31-2009 @ 12:36pm

It is true that some Christians have been on the oppressors at certain times in history. We've all been ignorant or on the wrong side at some point or another, sometimes without even knowing it.

by: SamHamilton

12-31-2009 @ 12:36pm

It is true that some Christians have been on the oppressors at certain times in history. We've all been ignorant or on the wrong side at some point or another, sometimes without even knowing it.

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 1:28pm

And my own theological heritage -- Reformed -- is most guilty of this.

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 1:28pm

And my own theological heritage -- Reformed -- is most guilty of this.

by: SamHamilton

12-31-2009 @ 6:58pm

When I used the term "spiritual healing", I used it to mean the healing of ills that are spiritual in nature rather than physical.

by: SamHamilton

12-31-2009 @ 6:58pm

When I used the term "spiritual healing", I used it to mean the healing of ills that are spiritual in nature rather than physical.

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 7:31pm

That could go in several directions depending on your interpretation because it's not well-defined. Demon-possession is in fact more common in "primitive" societies because (according to a translator friend who ministers in Cameroon) they are much more in tune with the spiritual world, the real problem is that they often devolve into superstition. However, it's well-known that many of those societies also suffer from physical diseases that were eradicated in the First World long ago.

by: BlueDeacon

12-31-2009 @ 7:31pm

That could go in several directions depending on your interpretation because it's not well-defined. Demon-possession is in fact more common in "primitive" societies because (according to a translator friend who ministers in Cameroon) they are much more in tune with the spiritual world, the real problem is that they often devolve into superstition. However, it's well-known that many of those societies also suffer from physical diseases that were eradicated in the First World long ago.

by: PASTOR JEFF

01-01-2010 @ 2:27pm

Thanks for responding, Sam. This deliniation between spiritual and physical seems to border on dualism and/or gnosticism. It serves well those who wish to exploit others or capriciously assign importance to personal pet projects. Where is the line drawn between physical and spiritual, in your estimation. For example, some here would qualify feeding the poor as a physical and not spiritual activity. This is why, on a previous thread, I questioned Lord Voltemont on the definition of mercy.

by: PASTOR JEFF

01-01-2010 @ 2:27pm

Thanks for responding, Sam. This deliniation between spiritual and physical seems to border on dualism and/or gnosticism. It serves well those who wish to exploit others or capriciously assign importance to personal pet projects. Where is the line drawn between physical and spiritual, in your estimation. For example, some here would qualify feeding the poor as a physical and not spiritual activity. This is why, on a previous thread, I questioned Lord Voltemont on the definition of mercy.

by: SamHamilton

01-01-2010 @ 4:10pm

I don't think spiritual and physical needs can always be separated into distinct categories. Obviously, when you give a hungry person some food you are meeting a physical need, but you're also showing the love of Christ, which is meeting a spiritual need. I don't think a bright line of distinction is needed.

But sometimes they can be separated. When you, as a pastor, preach the gospel and talk about the need for forgiveness, there is no specific physical need being met. It's purely spiritual. Or when a child from a low-income household gets a free meal at school paid for by someone the child has never met and possibly couldn't care less about the child's needs there is no act of love (or at least a greatly reduced act of love) there. It's purely a material transaction to meet a physical need.