My family and I returned from vacation Tuesday to news reports of the devastation in Haiti. I, like all of you, listened in shock to the reports of tens of thousands dead and hundreds of thousands left without shelter, without food, without family. And within hours everyone realized
I hope that some day you are filled with the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit, markarios!
And maybe some day you will know how to read the Scriptures in their correct context, too.
There is a non-profit organization here in Tulsa which is sending water purifying tubes to Haiti. The head of the organization showed now one could drink the clear water out of a toilet bowl on the local news this evening using the device which can filter 3 liters of water per day.
It didn't turn wine into water or vice versa. It just turns polluted water into potable water.
"I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall."
But that's not Biblical. Death entered the world because of sin. God never intended there to be a cycle of life and death. I realize that as a geologist you may be a theistic evolutionist. The reason I'm not a theistic evolutionist is because of the issue of death. Scripturally, death did not appear until after the fall and it was God's judgment on rebellion. With theistic evolution, you have to make room for death on a massive scale long before the appearance of mankind, which contradicts the Bible.
I think that in this instance, Pat Robertson was right on. He put his finger on the problem which brings disaster and destruction, alliance with haSatan, the source of the curse since Eve and Adam abdicated their God-given dominion to haSatan. However, Pat R. did not advocate sitting back in smugness and hypocracy and condemning the Haitians because of their sin; he advocated that like all true followers of our Lord Jesus, Yeshua haMaschiach, we must cross over the road and share the suffering and pick up our neighbor and bind up his wounds and give him a drink and provide for his care and healing. At the same time we must tell them the truth in love, that only by repenting from our/their sin/turning against God, by turning back to God and confessing our sin and accepting His mercy and redemption, by seeking His face with all our/their heart, soul, mind and strength can we avoid worse in the future and receive healing for our/their land.
Pat did not say that while we in the U.S. have so far been spared a like horrible tragedy, that this is not to be taken by us as a dire warning. Christ says, "Do you think that those Galileans were any worse sinners than all the other Galileans? I tell you, 'no', but unless you repent, worse things may come upon you." Do you think that these islanders were worse sinners than all the other inhabitants of the western hemisphere. I tell you 'no,' but unless WE repent, worse things may soon come uopn US. It is time, at the last minute, to take seriously the promise, "If My people (or those people) who are called by My Name (or who call themselves Christian) humble themselves and pray and seek My face and repent from their wicked ways, then I will look from heaven and hear their prayer and heal their land."
There was death--plants die when eaten.
The Bible is speaking of spiritual death, which is far more costly than physical death, and is what Adam and Eve brought into the world. If the Bible isn't talking about spiritual death, then it would stand to reason that
a) Adam and Eve would have died immediately after disobeying God's command (for they were promised "for on that day, you shall surely die" if they ate of the fruit).
b) If physical death was conquered by Christ's sacrifice, we should be able to reason that when we become Christians, we no longer PHYSICALLY die, which is not the case.
Also, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden lest they eat of the Tree of Life and live forever. If Adam and Eve (and in fact all creatures) were created to be immortal, what is the purpose of a Tree of Life? There was no need, if they were already immortal.
The God that I know, of my understanding, does not deliberately send earthquakes as some sort of devine punishment to make human beings (and also other living beings) suffer.
There are some phenomena that I cannot understand. I do know that there are laws of Nature (put in place by God) that dictates that when certain natural conditions occur, the tectonic plates of the earth will move and earthquakes will occur. Just as tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes and other natural events will occur. These sorts of occurrences have nothing to do with whether human beings are in a collective state of sin or not. They occur because there are natural laws that are not dependent on human existence or human actions.
Human beings are not the center of the Universe. We are not the End-All and Be-All of Creation -- God doesn't always concern Himself exclusively with the whims and wants of human beings. Human beings are parts of a whole of Creation that exists on Earth and in the Universe. Events happen within this entirity of Creation, not all of them caused by (or affecting) human beings.
So how can I say this when God is a God of Love -- when God sent His Son Jesus Christ to Earth? Jesus didn't come to Earth to change the laws of nature. Jesus came as a human being -- but also as God -- to present God's message that He is Love.
One of the laws of Nature is that human beings were born with brains, with minds and emotions. We can make choices, and the choices we make all have a place within the laws of Nature -- but human actions and choices aren't necessarily the center of events that occur within the laws of Nature. Perhaps human beings are, as a popular song once put it, "dust in the wind."
But what God provides for us, because He is Love, is His Strength to endure whatever happens within the course of human or natural events. We can love and take care of other human (and other) beings when the laws of Nature bring destructive forces upon us. Or for that matter, when human beings bring destructive forces upon other human (and other) beings. When we turn away from our selves and turn to God and ask for His help, ask for guidance in following His will -- then we receive God's Strength that will fill us with His Holiness.
I don't know if any of this makes sense, and it's probably rambling. I hope that it might be at least somewhat understandable.
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Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters. Why did he change the laws of nature after the fall?
Also, to keep things in perspective, wars and mass murder by the victims' own governments have killed far, far more people throughout history than all of the natural disasters combined. Two examples: Stalin murdered 30 million peasants in the 1930's and Mao murdered about 20 million in the 1960's. Man killing man was another of God's judgments. Read Romans 1 and 2 in which Paul tells Christians that God stepped back and let rebellious mankind have his way since we refused to follow him.
Good comments. From a geologist's perspective, I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall. The cycles and spheres, be it atmosphere, lithosphere, biosphere, or hydrosphere, all work together in an elegant balance that is mind-boggling.
We were designed to live within the balance of creation, and I think prior to the fall, we knew how to do that. Post-fall, we are woefully out of balance with His creation. Not only did the fall knock us out of balance with God's intent for His creation and us, but we lost our relationship with Him. We became spiritually mortal. The true loss in the fall is not that we physically die, but that we spiritually die, and far more tragic, that we lost our relationship with our Creator.
"Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters."
Curious. Are you saying that God could have created oceans and continents that don't possess waves or tectonic movements? Without tectonic movements, there wouldn't be any mountains; mountains were formed from tectonic movements. The oceans would not have waves only if there were no winds. And thus we would have an earth that is flat with stagnant air, without tectonic movement or winds.
God didn't create the rules of Nature that result in hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. simply to send destruction on human beings. Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, other natural events were happening long before human beings ever came on the Earth. I hate to say it, but human beings aren't the end-all and be-all in the grand scheme of God's Plan.
What human beings have are choices. We can remain selfishly within our own egos. Or we can open ourselves up to God's Strength to help us do the next right thing.
I do agree with you in saying that human beings killing each other have resulted in more human deaths than all of the natural disasters combined.
"With theistic evolution, you have to make room for death on a massive scale long before the appearance of mankind, which contradicts the Bible."
Are you saying that plants and animals never died before the appearance of humankind? Were plants and animals immortal?
I hope that some day you are filled with the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit, markarios!
And maybe some day you will know how to read the Scriptures in their correct context, too.
There is a non-profit organization here in Tulsa which is sending water purifying tubes to Haiti. The head of the organization showed now one could drink the clear water out of a toilet bowl on the local news this evening using the device which can filter 3 liters of water per day.
It didn't turn wine into water or vice versa. It just turns polluted water into potable water.
Certainly God COULD have done those things (create mountains without plate tectonics, etc), but did He? Certainly He COULD have changed the laws of nature upon the Fall, but did He? The evidence from His very Creation indicates He did not.
I think the major point you make is that humans are not all that. One of the reasons I think creationists chafe at the idea of an Earth far older than 6000 years or humans rising out of evolutionary processes from apes is that it does exactly what you say--it makes our importance and our existence seem meaningless.
However, in reality, it puts us in the right place before God where all we have left is humility and His grace, saying "Lord, what are humans that you are mindful of them?" And gives new perspective to the thought that God would come to Earth as a human and die for us. Ironically, it is science that gives us these right understanding of God and our standing with Him and His love for us, not creationism.
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"I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall."
But that's not Biblical. Death entered the world because of sin. God never intended there to be a cycle of life and death. I realize that as a geologist you may be a theistic evolutionist. The reason I'm not a theistic evolutionist is because of the issue of death. Scripturally, death did not appear until after the fall and it was God's judgment on rebellion. With theistic evolution, you have to make room for death on a massive scale long before the appearance of mankind, which contradicts the Bible.
There was death--plants die when eaten.
The Bible is speaking of spiritual death, which is far more costly than physical death, and is what Adam and Eve brought into the world. If the Bible isn't talking about spiritual death, then it would stand to reason that
a) Adam and Eve would have died immediately after disobeying God's command (for they were promised "for on that day, you shall surely die" if they ate of the fruit).
b) If physical death was conquered by Christ's sacrifice, we should be able to reason that when we become Christians, we no longer PHYSICALLY die, which is not the case.
Also, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden lest they eat of the Tree of Life and live forever. If Adam and Eve (and in fact all creatures) were created to be immortal, what is the purpose of a Tree of Life? There was no need, if they were already immortal.
"Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters."
Curious. Are you saying that God could have created oceans and continents that don't possess waves or tectonic movements? Without tectonic movements, there wouldn't be any mountains; mountains were formed from tectonic movements. The oceans would not have waves only if there were no winds. And thus we would have an earth that is flat with stagnant air, without tectonic movement or winds.
God didn't create the rules of Nature that result in hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. simply to send destruction on human beings. Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, other natural events were happening long before human beings ever came on the Earth. I hate to say it, but human beings aren't the end-all and be-all in the grand scheme of God's Plan.
What human beings have are choices. We can remain selfishly within our own egos. Or we can open ourselves up to God's Strength to help us do the next right thing.
I do agree with you in saying that human beings killing each other have resulted in more human deaths than all of the natural disasters combined.
"With theistic evolution, you have to make room for death on a massive scale long before the appearance of mankind, which contradicts the Bible."
Are you saying that plants and animals never died before the appearance of humankind? Were plants and animals immortal?
I just followed the link you provided. Mr. Brown is hardly a good example of good, solid, scientific evidence to explain plate tectonics, etc. He is, in fact, an example of the typical creationist rhetoric I have encountered as described in my previous post. If you read an introductory geology book, it is pretty likely you also could refute every geological point he makes.
Here is a quick refutation of his hydroplate hypothesis by someone who isn't even a geologist, but who easily dismantles his hypothesis:
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/hydro.html
It really is much more logical to understand God's creation story based on the evidence He actually gives us in His creation than it is to try to twist our understanding of His creation to match a literal interpretation of His creation account.
I was a young earth creationist for a very long time, so I am very very familiar with creation science's claims and arguments, and the more I learned about geology, the more I realized how the science has been twisted to meet their goals.
In many cases, creationists have bordered on dishonesty in their presentation. I went to a presentation a few years ago, and it was full of half truths. He brought up questions about the time scale, for example, but he didn't give the full story about it. That is a half truth. Half truths are also known as lies, by the way. Fancy presentations fool a lot of people, especially those who don't know anything about science.
I also listened to about 10 CDs of Kent Hovind, Dr. Dino, at the request of my brother. His geologic arguments were refutable by any good freshman geology student. But they sound good, because most people aren't good freshman geology students. Again, he gives flashy presentations full of half truths that fool a lot of people and make a lot of money.
They also argue from the basis of "expertise". Hovind calls himself Dr. Hovind, giving the impression that he actually has true experience in these scientific fields. His doctorate is in Christian education from an un-acredited university and he has at the most a bachelor of some science, not sure which one. This hardly makes him an expert on anything, other than Christian education, and even though he says what his doctorate is in, most people don't understand that having a doctorate in one area doesn't make you an expert in everything.
The person whose presentation I attended a few years ago claimed to have a doctorate, as well, which was not true. Additionally, the last time I looked at the credentials of the contributors to "Answers in Genesis", not one of them had doctorates in sciences relevant to the age of the Earth or evolution.
In order to say this touches on salvation, you would have to believe that animals sin. Animals don't sin, they act according to animal nature. If they had the ability to choose between good and evil, they would have the ability to sin. What distinguishes us from animals is that we have consciousness and the ability to choose to live according to God's plan or to rebel against it. I see no reason that God could not have used evolution to create a people with a conscious. It is an insult to us because we like to think we are specially created, but as I argued before, it actually puts us in a right relationship of humility before Him. He is sovereign, and could have created us anyway He wanted.
The Bible is not a science book. We are using a scientific interpretation of it, and thus lose its mystery. Our literal mindset robs us of much of the mystery of the Bible and much of its beauty, and I"m not just speaking of Genesis.
I have read Hugh Ross and Francis Collins. Their work is great, as far as it goes. But if you read the works of creation scientists, such as that on creationscience.com, you'll find that a literal reading of Genesis and good science agree perfectly. Most of the fossil record, plate tectonics and other phenomena can be explained with the Genesis flood.
You need to read some books on hermeneutics. Their are logical principles for interpreting the Bible that scholars developed to prevent people making the Bible say whatever they wanted it to say. Giving precedence to the theory of evolution is not one of those principles. Interpreting Genesis to fit the theory of evolution violates just about every principle of hermeneutics.
And I disagree that the issue of evolution/creation is off topic. The topic is the source of evil and suffering in the world. By claming that God created the world and mankind through the process of evolution, you're claming that God made the evils of death and natural disaster an integral part of life and that he considers it a good thing.
The traditional Christian view is that death is an evil thing and judgment of God on a rebellious mankind and one day God will abolish death.
And the whole question touches on salvation. If man ascended from an animal, then our nature is to be an animal. In other words, if God used evolution to bring mankind into existence, then he created the human nature that the Bible calls sinful. Then he declared that nature which he created to be wrong, but instead of punishing himself for the mistake, punishes mankind. And it makes God the author and creator of what the Bible calls sin. If that is true, then what is the point of the cross? Did Christ come to remedy God's mistake in creating man? Could God not create man without a sinful nature? I think the whole story of Christ and the cross falls apart.
Of course, the Bible states that God created a perfect universe, world and mankind. No flaws whatsoever. But he gave man a free will so that his relationship to God would be one of free choice and not compulsion. But man rebelled and changed his nature from perfection to sin. God responded with judgment.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you can't be a Christian if you also believe in evolution. Ross and Collins and many others clearly are Christians. I'm merely saying that you have to inconsistent with a lot of Biblical truths and the science of hermeneutics in order to do so, all to embrace some very suspect science.
It's hard to know what to do with the physical evidence in God's own creation, which I know quite a bit about as a geologist. A strict literal interpretation of the Bible makes God a liar, as the only other explanation for the evidence of the age and evolution in the fossil record, past plate tectonic activity, or radiometric dating is they were place in the rocks to fool us.
However, I don't think God is a liar, so that leads me to think the strict literal interpretation is not the best exegesis to apply to Genesis. Why some insist on it is rather mysterious to me, because we don't do this in other parts of the Bible. God is not literally a rock, for example. When we wait upon the Lord, we don't rise up like literal eagles. Most importantly, the Bible is not a science book, and He gave us brains to unlock His science.
I suggest you read some Hugh Ross for some suggestions to how God's creation, as understood by science, jives with the Genesis description. Francis Collins might be equally revelatory. No, I don't have to rip out those chapters of my Bible, and my faith is more rigorous with the scientific understanding of Earth and its history now than it was without. In other words, I have my cake, and it's quite tasty, as a matter of fact.
We'll agree to disagree on this. It's far past the topic at hand, anyway.
No, it was physical death and spiritual death. There is no indication in the Bible that it was just spiritual. Yes, plants died, but God has always considered animals and humans very different from plants. Before the Fall, all animals and man were vegetarians. The first animal killed was when God made clothing for Adam and Eve after the Fall.
There is no requirement that Adam and Eve would die immediately after sinning. God did not say they would drop dead on the first bite of the fruit. He just assured them they would die physically as opposed to living forever. And Christ did conquer physical death with his sacrifice. The great hope of Christians is the bodily resurrection. We will not spend eternity as bodiless ghosts, but with a full human body. It just doesn't happen immediately.
I don't know why the tree of life was in the garden. I can only speculate. But we shouldn't build doctrine on obscure passages when clear passages are available that teach the truth.
Obviously, the Bible doesn't present this kind of detail about life before the Fall. Theologians over the centuries have deduced what life in the Garden may have been like from descriptions of the messianic kingdom in the OT, especially those in Isaiah. For example, Isaiah wrote that the lion will lie down with the lamb, indicating that lions will no longer be carnivores in the messianic kingdom. And the fact that the Bible makes death a result of sin indicates that death of animals and humans did not exist before sin.
Of course, all of this assumes a young earth creationist view. If you believe in billions of years of evolution, then you can't take any of this seriously. You can tear the first two chapters of Genesis out of your Bible because they don't mean anything. But if you do, then you should wonder at what point in evolution man became spiritually alive, so that he could spiritually die. Christ didn't die for animals; he died for humans. But according to evolution, man was an animal first and only gradually became human. Then at some point God gave humans a soul and at the same time gave him a morality that he couldn't keep because it was opposed to his animal nature, so that soul would die when human nature failed to control his nature. Does that make more sense than the literal version of Genesis with a young earth?
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Certainly God COULD have done those things (create mountains without plate tectonics, etc), but did He? Certainly He COULD have changed the laws of nature upon the Fall, but did He? The evidence from His very Creation indicates He did not.
I think the major point you make is that humans are not all that. One of the reasons I think creationists chafe at the idea of an Earth far older than 6000 years or humans rising out of evolutionary processes from apes is that it does exactly what you say--it makes our importance and our existence seem meaningless.
However, in reality, it puts us in the right place before God where all we have left is humility and His grace, saying "Lord, what are humans that you are mindful of them?" And gives new perspective to the thought that God would come to Earth as a human and die for us. Ironically, it is science that gives us these right understanding of God and our standing with Him and His love for us, not creationism.
"I am thirsty he says. I am not watching this from a distant heaven. Jesus says I too am thirsty." It is always interesting to me when I hit the breaking point following a tragedy- when am I going to weep? When will it be real? This sentence was it. Thank you Nadia; I have been deeply blessed by your words.
Thank you. I'm reminded of this that I read some time ago:
As I came crawling to You across the desert of my life
With a tin cup in my hand
Barely daring to ask for a drop
Had I known You then as I know You now
I'd have come running with a bucket in each hand.
I hope that some day Joe Allen Doty some day knows Jesus as I know Him today.
God bless - See you there!
Nice lesson, thanks!
I had a theology professor tell the class that he had met God face to face and he is the devil! That was a prof with a PhD from Princeton, btw. Atheists are right that we have only two choices without the Bible: 1) God is evil to allow disasters like Haiti, or 2) there is no God.
Crises like that in Haiti should cause us to remember why crises exist at all. None existed when God created the planet and man. There were no earthquakes, tsunamis, droughts, hurricanes, rapes, murders, wars, poverty, etc. There was no death. All of the above and more came after the rebellion. God did two things: he stepped back and let mankind have its way and he cursed the planet. His judgment wasn't vindictive, but merciful in that he intended it to persuade us to end our rebellion so that a worse fate, eternity separated from him, would not befall us.
The crisis should remind us of how horrible sin is to God. Haiti suffers because of sin. Not that Haitians were any more sinful than others, but that mankind's continued rebellion keeps the curse on the planet. Haitians happen to be the ones suffering at the moment. A few years ago those suffering were the victims of a tsunami. One day God will lift the curse, when Christ returns to reign on earth.
But God always mixes mercy with his righteous judgments. In helping Haitians recover from the disaster we do not fight against God, as some atheists have clamed. We participate in his mercy on those caught up in the judgment that we deserve as well.
A tech point: Jesus wasn't being disrespectful of Mary. The Greek words are a translation of an idiom in Aramaic that was very respectful.
"There is no reason for this destruction - but there IS meaning" is very true, I believe that every disaster that had happened merely to serve one purpose which is to get us closer to God.
Mike,
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I am really struggling with these events and the theology of "explanation"
Humanity is certainly sinful. We are complicit in the demonic. Some receive their daily bread by the millions. Other receive zip. Some lives count and are worthy of saving through extraordinary means. Others die without care and with no one noticing.
A lot of bad stuff happens, caused by human sinfulness. Yet some things happen there make no sense. As I read the scriptures, I read that God is love. And we love because God first loved us.
So I have confidence. I expect the loving Lord to act quickly. Why delay? Why allow the curse to continue? As a parent, if I allowed my kids to suffer in a burning house because they weren't being responsible, then I would not be considered loving.
I feel in danger of losing the Lord I love, the Lord of Love.
When is the water going to get turned into wine for the people of Haiti? Right now I am reduced to giving as much as I can, adding value through matching funds. Yet it seems so insignificant. How can I live in my nice house and eat my nice dinner when my brothers and sisters are dying?
My status is: lament.
"Why allow the curse to continue? As a parent, if I allowed my kids to suffer in a burning house because they weren't being responsible, then I would not be considered loving."
I think God hurts more from the suffering of mankind than we do because he loves perfectly whereas we can't. But true love wants what is best for those it loves, and what is best for us is to end our rebellion and rejoin him. Would God be a loving parent if he gave us paradise on earth without our repenting of our rebellion, but that paradise caused use all to spend eternity separated from him? We must take the long term view, as God does. The sufferings on this earth are limited in scope and time, whereas the suffering of eternity are unlimited, as is the blessing for those who repent.
God in his wisdom has chosen to continue the curse on the planet as the best way to persuade a rebellious mankind to repent and rejoin him. I can't say that I have a better idea.
Of course, many of the people who are suffering in Haiti are Christians and have already ended their rebellion. But God has chosen to let Christians suffer alongside unbelievers for many reasons. Paul provides many of those reasons in his letters.
Duh,
I understand your angst, and struggle with the same questions. Many of us do--it's the question of how a loving God can allow such horrible suffering. I don't have easy answers, or answers that you haven't already heard. And any of those answers fall flat because they just aren't satisfying in the face of such horror. Yet we try to explain and understand the mind of God in all this.
There is a rebellion, as fundamentalist would indicate, but both purposeful and out of ignorance. A rebellion against the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom that Jesus initiated on Earth. What is that Kingdom? I don't know or fully understand it, but I suspect it is everything that the Kingdom of This World is not. Look at what Jesus valued in opposition to what we value, for example--He valued the poor, the destitute, the powerless, the lost. We value the rich, the famous, the powerful, those who "have it all together". Even those of us who are trying not to be part of the rebellion struggle to find value in what Jesus valued.
Why does God delay? I suspect it isn't so much God who delays, but us. We expect the Lord to act quickly, but forget that we are His hands and feet. We best be sure that we don't fail to act while we are busy expecting Him to. Perhaps He intends to act through us. Why He doesn't just rip the reigns from our hands sometimes and do it Himself, which would be faster, I don't know. But I suspect his body is growing and maturing, and must learn these things along the way, as a child would. We don't want our children to learn through experiencing pain, but sometimes pain is the best teacher. While many of us will (rightly, I think) continue to ask how the Haiti Earthquake fits into a loving God's plan for His creation, we also need to ask what is the Kingdom of God response to the Haiti tragedy? And what is our part in that response, as members of that Kingdom?
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"I am thirsty he says. I am not watching this from a distant heaven. Jesus says I too am thirsty." It is always interesting to me when I hit the breaking point following a tragedy- when am I going to weep? When will it be real? This sentence was it. Thank you Nadia; I have been deeply blessed by your words.
Thank you. I'm reminded of this that I read some time ago:
As I came crawling to You across the desert of my life
With a tin cup in my hand
Barely daring to ask for a drop
Had I known You then as I know You now
I'd have come running with a bucket in each hand.
I hope that some day Joe Allen Doty some day knows Jesus as I know Him today.
God bless - See you there!
I think that in this instance, Pat Robertson was right on. He put his finger on the problem which brings disaster and destruction, alliance with haSatan, the source of the curse since Eve and Adam abdicated their God-given dominion to haSatan. However, Pat R. did not advocate sitting back in smugness and hypocracy and condemning the Haitians because of their sin; he advocated that like all true followers of our Lord Jesus, Yeshua haMaschiach, we must cross over the road and share the suffering and pick up our neighbor and bind up his wounds and give him a drink and provide for his care and healing. At the same time we must tell them the truth in love, that only by repenting from our/their sin/turning against God, by turning back to God and confessing our sin and accepting His mercy and redemption, by seeking His face with all our/their heart, soul, mind and strength can we avoid worse in the future and receive healing for our/their land.
Pat did not say that while we in the U.S. have so far been spared a like horrible tragedy, that this is not to be taken by us as a dire warning. Christ says, "Do you think that those Galileans were any worse sinners than all the other Galileans? I tell you, 'no', but unless you repent, worse things may come upon you." Do you think that these islanders were worse sinners than all the other inhabitants of the western hemisphere. I tell you 'no,' but unless WE repent, worse things may soon come uopn US. It is time, at the last minute, to take seriously the promise, "If My people (or those people) who are called by My Name (or who call themselves Christian) humble themselves and pray and seek My face and repent from their wicked ways, then I will look from heaven and hear their prayer and heal their land."
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"I am thirsty he says. I am not watching this from a distant heaven. Jesus says I too am thirsty." It is always interesting to me when I hit the breaking point following a tragedy- when am I going to weep? When will it be real? This sentence was it. Thank you Nadia; I have been deeply blessed by your words.
"I am thirsty he says. I am not watching this from a distant heaven. Jesus says I too am thirsty." It is always interesting to me when I hit the breaking point following a tragedy- when am I going to weep? When will it be real? This sentence was it. Thank you Nadia; I have been deeply blessed by your words.
Thank you. I'm reminded of this that I read some time ago:
As I came crawling to You across the desert of my life
With a tin cup in my hand
Barely daring to ask for a drop
Had I known You then as I know You now
I'd have come running with a bucket in each hand.
I hope that some day Joe Allen Doty some day knows Jesus as I know Him today.
God bless - See you there!
Thank you. I'm reminded of this that I read some time ago:
As I came crawling to You across the desert of my life
With a tin cup in my hand
Barely daring to ask for a drop
Had I known You then as I know You now
I'd have come running with a bucket in each hand.
I hope that some day Joe Allen Doty some day knows Jesus as I know Him today.
God bless - See you there!
Nice lesson, thanks!
I had a theology professor tell the class that he had met God face to face and he is the devil! That was a prof with a PhD from Princeton, btw. Atheists are right that we have only two choices without the Bible: 1) God is evil to allow disasters like Haiti, or 2) there is no God.
Crises like that in Haiti should cause us to remember why crises exist at all. None existed when God created the planet and man. There were no earthquakes, tsunamis, droughts, hurricanes, rapes, murders, wars, poverty, etc. There was no death. All of the above and more came after the rebellion. God did two things: he stepped back and let mankind have its way and he cursed the planet. His judgment wasn't vindictive, but merciful in that he intended it to persuade us to end our rebellion so that a worse fate, eternity separated from him, would not befall us.
The crisis should remind us of how horrible sin is to God. Haiti suffers because of sin. Not that Haitians were any more sinful than others, but that mankind's continued rebellion keeps the curse on the planet. Haitians happen to be the ones suffering at the moment. A few years ago those suffering were the victims of a tsunami. One day God will lift the curse, when Christ returns to reign on earth.
But God always mixes mercy with his righteous judgments. In helping Haitians recover from the disaster we do not fight against God, as some atheists have clamed. We participate in his mercy on those caught up in the judgment that we deserve as well.
A tech point: Jesus wasn't being disrespectful of Mary. The Greek words are a translation of an idiom in Aramaic that was very respectful.
Nice lesson, thanks!
I had a theology professor tell the class that he had met God face to face and he is the devil! That was a prof with a PhD from Princeton, btw. Atheists are right that we have only two choices without the Bible: 1) God is evil to allow disasters like Haiti, or 2) there is no God.
Crises like that in Haiti should cause us to remember why crises exist at all. None existed when God created the planet and man. There were no earthquakes, tsunamis, droughts, hurricanes, rapes, murders, wars, poverty, etc. There was no death. All of the above and more came after the rebellion. God did two things: he stepped back and let mankind have its way and he cursed the planet. His judgment wasn't vindictive, but merciful in that he intended it to persuade us to end our rebellion so that a worse fate, eternity separated from him, would not befall us.
The crisis should remind us of how horrible sin is to God. Haiti suffers because of sin. Not that Haitians were any more sinful than others, but that mankind's continued rebellion keeps the curse on the planet. Haitians happen to be the ones suffering at the moment. A few years ago those suffering were the victims of a tsunami. One day God will lift the curse, when Christ returns to reign on earth.
But God always mixes mercy with his righteous judgments. In helping Haitians recover from the disaster we do not fight against God, as some atheists have clamed. We participate in his mercy on those caught up in the judgment that we deserve as well.
A tech point: Jesus wasn't being disrespectful of Mary. The Greek words are a translation of an idiom in Aramaic that was very respectful.
"There is no reason for this destruction - but there IS meaning" is very true, I believe that every disaster that had happened merely to serve one purpose which is to get us closer to God.
Mike,
Sample Wedding Speech
"There is no reason for this destruction - but there IS meaning" is very true, I believe that every disaster that had happened merely to serve one purpose which is to get us closer to God.
Mike,
Sample Wedding Speech
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I am really struggling with these events and the theology of "explanation"
Humanity is certainly sinful. We are complicit in the demonic. Some receive their daily bread by the millions. Other receive zip. Some lives count and are worthy of saving through extraordinary means. Others die without care and with no one noticing.
A lot of bad stuff happens, caused by human sinfulness. Yet some things happen there make no sense. As I read the scriptures, I read that God is love. And we love because God first loved us.
So I have confidence. I expect the loving Lord to act quickly. Why delay? Why allow the curse to continue? As a parent, if I allowed my kids to suffer in a burning house because they weren't being responsible, then I would not be considered loving.
I feel in danger of losing the Lord I love, the Lord of Love.
When is the water going to get turned into wine for the people of Haiti? Right now I am reduced to giving as much as I can, adding value through matching funds. Yet it seems so insignificant. How can I live in my nice house and eat my nice dinner when my brothers and sisters are dying?
My status is: lament.
I am really struggling with these events and the theology of "explanation"
Humanity is certainly sinful. We are complicit in the demonic. Some receive their daily bread by the millions. Other receive zip. Some lives count and are worthy of saving through extraordinary means. Others die without care and with no one noticing.
A lot of bad stuff happens, caused by human sinfulness. Yet some things happen there make no sense. As I read the scriptures, I read that God is love. And we love because God first loved us.
So I have confidence. I expect the loving Lord to act quickly. Why delay? Why allow the curse to continue? As a parent, if I allowed my kids to suffer in a burning house because they weren't being responsible, then I would not be considered loving.
I feel in danger of losing the Lord I love, the Lord of Love.
When is the water going to get turned into wine for the people of Haiti? Right now I am reduced to giving as much as I can, adding value through matching funds. Yet it seems so insignificant. How can I live in my nice house and eat my nice dinner when my brothers and sisters are dying?
My status is: lament.
"Why allow the curse to continue? As a parent, if I allowed my kids to suffer in a burning house because they weren't being responsible, then I would not be considered loving."
I think God hurts more from the suffering of mankind than we do because he loves perfectly whereas we can't. But true love wants what is best for those it loves, and what is best for us is to end our rebellion and rejoin him. Would God be a loving parent if he gave us paradise on earth without our repenting of our rebellion, but that paradise caused use all to spend eternity separated from him? We must take the long term view, as God does. The sufferings on this earth are limited in scope and time, whereas the suffering of eternity are unlimited, as is the blessing for those who repent.
God in his wisdom has chosen to continue the curse on the planet as the best way to persuade a rebellious mankind to repent and rejoin him. I can't say that I have a better idea.
Of course, many of the people who are suffering in Haiti are Christians and have already ended their rebellion. But God has chosen to let Christians suffer alongside unbelievers for many reasons. Paul provides many of those reasons in his letters.
"Why allow the curse to continue? As a parent, if I allowed my kids to suffer in a burning house because they weren't being responsible, then I would not be considered loving."
I think God hurts more from the suffering of mankind than we do because he loves perfectly whereas we can't. But true love wants what is best for those it loves, and what is best for us is to end our rebellion and rejoin him. Would God be a loving parent if he gave us paradise on earth without our repenting of our rebellion, but that paradise caused use all to spend eternity separated from him? We must take the long term view, as God does. The sufferings on this earth are limited in scope and time, whereas the suffering of eternity are unlimited, as is the blessing for those who repent.
God in his wisdom has chosen to continue the curse on the planet as the best way to persuade a rebellious mankind to repent and rejoin him. I can't say that I have a better idea.
Of course, many of the people who are suffering in Haiti are Christians and have already ended their rebellion. But God has chosen to let Christians suffer alongside unbelievers for many reasons. Paul provides many of those reasons in his letters.
Duh,
I understand your angst, and struggle with the same questions. Many of us do--it's the question of how a loving God can allow such horrible suffering. I don't have easy answers, or answers that you haven't already heard. And any of those answers fall flat because they just aren't satisfying in the face of such horror. Yet we try to explain and understand the mind of God in all this.
There is a rebellion, as fundamentalist would indicate, but both purposeful and out of ignorance. A rebellion against the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom that Jesus initiated on Earth. What is that Kingdom? I don't know or fully understand it, but I suspect it is everything that the Kingdom of This World is not. Look at what Jesus valued in opposition to what we value, for example--He valued the poor, the destitute, the powerless, the lost. We value the rich, the famous, the powerful, those who "have it all together". Even those of us who are trying not to be part of the rebellion struggle to find value in what Jesus valued.
Why does God delay? I suspect it isn't so much God who delays, but us. We expect the Lord to act quickly, but forget that we are His hands and feet. We best be sure that we don't fail to act while we are busy expecting Him to. Perhaps He intends to act through us. Why He doesn't just rip the reigns from our hands sometimes and do it Himself, which would be faster, I don't know. But I suspect his body is growing and maturing, and must learn these things along the way, as a child would. We don't want our children to learn through experiencing pain, but sometimes pain is the best teacher. While many of us will (rightly, I think) continue to ask how the Haiti Earthquake fits into a loving God's plan for His creation, we also need to ask what is the Kingdom of God response to the Haiti tragedy? And what is our part in that response, as members of that Kingdom?
Duh,
I understand your angst, and struggle with the same questions. Many of us do--it's the question of how a loving God can allow such horrible suffering. I don't have easy answers, or answers that you haven't already heard. And any of those answers fall flat because they just aren't satisfying in the face of such horror. Yet we try to explain and understand the mind of God in all this.
There is a rebellion, as fundamentalist would indicate, but both purposeful and out of ignorance. A rebellion against the Kingdom of God, the Kingdom that Jesus initiated on Earth. What is that Kingdom? I don't know or fully understand it, but I suspect it is everything that the Kingdom of This World is not. Look at what Jesus valued in opposition to what we value, for example--He valued the poor, the destitute, the powerless, the lost. We value the rich, the famous, the powerful, those who "have it all together". Even those of us who are trying not to be part of the rebellion struggle to find value in what Jesus valued.
Why does God delay? I suspect it isn't so much God who delays, but us. We expect the Lord to act quickly, but forget that we are His hands and feet. We best be sure that we don't fail to act while we are busy expecting Him to. Perhaps He intends to act through us. Why He doesn't just rip the reigns from our hands sometimes and do it Himself, which would be faster, I don't know. But I suspect his body is growing and maturing, and must learn these things along the way, as a child would. We don't want our children to learn through experiencing pain, but sometimes pain is the best teacher. While many of us will (rightly, I think) continue to ask how the Haiti Earthquake fits into a loving God's plan for His creation, we also need to ask what is the Kingdom of God response to the Haiti tragedy? And what is our part in that response, as members of that Kingdom?
I think that in this instance, Pat Robertson was right on. He put his finger on the problem which brings disaster and destruction, alliance with haSatan, the source of the curse since Eve and Adam abdicated their God-given dominion to haSatan. However, Pat R. did not advocate sitting back in smugness and hypocracy and condemning the Haitians because of their sin; he advocated that like all true followers of our Lord Jesus, Yeshua haMaschiach, we must cross over the road and share the suffering and pick up our neighbor and bind up his wounds and give him a drink and provide for his care and healing. At the same time we must tell them the truth in love, that only by repenting from our/their sin/turning against God, by turning back to God and confessing our sin and accepting His mercy and redemption, by seeking His face with all our/their heart, soul, mind and strength can we avoid worse in the future and receive healing for our/their land.
Pat did not say that while we in the U.S. have so far been spared a like horrible tragedy, that this is not to be taken by us as a dire warning. Christ says, "Do you think that those Galileans were any worse sinners than all the other Galileans? I tell you, 'no', but unless you repent, worse things may come upon you." Do you think that these islanders were worse sinners than all the other inhabitants of the western hemisphere. I tell you 'no,' but unless WE repent, worse things may soon come uopn US. It is time, at the last minute, to take seriously the promise, "If My people (or those people) who are called by My Name (or who call themselves Christian) humble themselves and pray and seek My face and repent from their wicked ways, then I will look from heaven and hear their prayer and heal their land."
I think that in this instance, Pat Robertson was right on. He put his finger on the problem which brings disaster and destruction, alliance with haSatan, the source of the curse since Eve and Adam abdicated their God-given dominion to haSatan. However, Pat R. did not advocate sitting back in smugness and hypocracy and condemning the Haitians because of their sin; he advocated that like all true followers of our Lord Jesus, Yeshua haMaschiach, we must cross over the road and share the suffering and pick up our neighbor and bind up his wounds and give him a drink and provide for his care and healing. At the same time we must tell them the truth in love, that only by repenting from our/their sin/turning against God, by turning back to God and confessing our sin and accepting His mercy and redemption, by seeking His face with all our/their heart, soul, mind and strength can we avoid worse in the future and receive healing for our/their land.
Pat did not say that while we in the U.S. have so far been spared a like horrible tragedy, that this is not to be taken by us as a dire warning. Christ says, "Do you think that those Galileans were any worse sinners than all the other Galileans? I tell you, 'no', but unless you repent, worse things may come upon you." Do you think that these islanders were worse sinners than all the other inhabitants of the western hemisphere. I tell you 'no,' but unless WE repent, worse things may soon come uopn US. It is time, at the last minute, to take seriously the promise, "If My people (or those people) who are called by My Name (or who call themselves Christian) humble themselves and pray and seek My face and repent from their wicked ways, then I will look from heaven and hear their prayer and heal their land."
The God that I know, of my understanding, does not deliberately send earthquakes as some sort of devine punishment to make human beings (and also other living beings) suffer.
There are some phenomena that I cannot understand. I do know that there are laws of Nature (put in place by God) that dictates that when certain natural conditions occur, the tectonic plates of the earth will move and earthquakes will occur. Just as tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes and other natural events will occur. These sorts of occurrences have nothing to do with whether human beings are in a collective state of sin or not. They occur because there are natural laws that are not dependent on human existence or human actions.
Human beings are not the center of the Universe. We are not the End-All and Be-All of Creation -- God doesn't always concern Himself exclusively with the whims and wants of human beings. Human beings are parts of a whole of Creation that exists on Earth and in the Universe. Events happen within this entirity of Creation, not all of them caused by (or affecting) human beings.
So how can I say this when God is a God of Love -- when God sent His Son Jesus Christ to Earth? Jesus didn't come to Earth to change the laws of nature. Jesus came as a human being -- but also as God -- to present God's message that He is Love.
One of the laws of Nature is that human beings were born with brains, with minds and emotions. We can make choices, and the choices we make all have a place within the laws of Nature -- but human actions and choices aren't necessarily the center of events that occur within the laws of Nature. Perhaps human beings are, as a popular song once put it, "dust in the wind."
But what God provides for us, because He is Love, is His Strength to endure whatever happens within the course of human or natural events. We can love and take care of other human (and other) beings when the laws of Nature bring destructive forces upon us. Or for that matter, when human beings bring destructive forces upon other human (and other) beings. When we turn away from our selves and turn to God and ask for His help, ask for guidance in following His will -- then we receive God's Strength that will fill us with His Holiness.
I don't know if any of this makes sense, and it's probably rambling. I hope that it might be at least somewhat understandable.
The God that I know, of my understanding, does not deliberately send earthquakes as some sort of devine punishment to make human beings (and also other living beings) suffer.
There are some phenomena that I cannot understand. I do know that there are laws of Nature (put in place by God) that dictates that when certain natural conditions occur, the tectonic plates of the earth will move and earthquakes will occur. Just as tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes and other natural events will occur. These sorts of occurrences have nothing to do with whether human beings are in a collective state of sin or not. They occur because there are natural laws that are not dependent on human existence or human actions.
Human beings are not the center of the Universe. We are not the End-All and Be-All of Creation -- God doesn't always concern Himself exclusively with the whims and wants of human beings. Human beings are parts of a whole of Creation that exists on Earth and in the Universe. Events happen within this entirity of Creation, not all of them caused by (or affecting) human beings.
So how can I say this when God is a God of Love -- when God sent His Son Jesus Christ to Earth? Jesus didn't come to Earth to change the laws of nature. Jesus came as a human being -- but also as God -- to present God's message that He is Love.
One of the laws of Nature is that human beings were born with brains, with minds and emotions. We can make choices, and the choices we make all have a place within the laws of Nature -- but human actions and choices aren't necessarily the center of events that occur within the laws of Nature. Perhaps human beings are, as a popular song once put it, "dust in the wind."
But what God provides for us, because He is Love, is His Strength to endure whatever happens within the course of human or natural events. We can love and take care of other human (and other) beings when the laws of Nature bring destructive forces upon us. Or for that matter, when human beings bring destructive forces upon other human (and other) beings. When we turn away from our selves and turn to God and ask for His help, ask for guidance in following His will -- then we receive God's Strength that will fill us with His Holiness.
I don't know if any of this makes sense, and it's probably rambling. I hope that it might be at least somewhat understandable.
Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters. Why did he change the laws of nature after the fall?
Also, to keep things in perspective, wars and mass murder by the victims' own governments have killed far, far more people throughout history than all of the natural disasters combined. Two examples: Stalin murdered 30 million peasants in the 1930's and Mao murdered about 20 million in the 1960's. Man killing man was another of God's judgments. Read Romans 1 and 2 in which Paul tells Christians that God stepped back and let rebellious mankind have his way since we refused to follow him.
Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters. Why did he change the laws of nature after the fall?
Also, to keep things in perspective, wars and mass murder by the victims' own governments have killed far, far more people throughout history than all of the natural disasters combined. Two examples: Stalin murdered 30 million peasants in the 1930's and Mao murdered about 20 million in the 1960's. Man killing man was another of God's judgments. Read Romans 1 and 2 in which Paul tells Christians that God stepped back and let rebellious mankind have his way since we refused to follow him.
Good comments. From a geologist's perspective, I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall. The cycles and spheres, be it atmosphere, lithosphere, biosphere, or hydrosphere, all work together in an elegant balance that is mind-boggling.
We were designed to live within the balance of creation, and I think prior to the fall, we knew how to do that. Post-fall, we are woefully out of balance with His creation. Not only did the fall knock us out of balance with God's intent for His creation and us, but we lost our relationship with Him. We became spiritually mortal. The true loss in the fall is not that we physically die, but that we spiritually die, and far more tragic, that we lost our relationship with our Creator.
Good comments. From a geologist's perspective, I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall. The cycles and spheres, be it atmosphere, lithosphere, biosphere, or hydrosphere, all work together in an elegant balance that is mind-boggling.
We were designed to live within the balance of creation, and I think prior to the fall, we knew how to do that. Post-fall, we are woefully out of balance with His creation. Not only did the fall knock us out of balance with God's intent for His creation and us, but we lost our relationship with Him. We became spiritually mortal. The true loss in the fall is not that we physically die, but that we spiritually die, and far more tragic, that we lost our relationship with our Creator.
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I hope that some day you are filled with the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit, markarios!
And maybe some day you will know how to read the Scriptures in their correct context, too.
There is a non-profit organization here in Tulsa which is sending water purifying tubes to Haiti. The head of the organization showed now one could drink the clear water out of a toilet bowl on the local news this evening using the device which can filter 3 liters of water per day.
It didn't turn wine into water or vice versa. It just turns polluted water into potable water.
I hope that some day you are filled with the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit, markarios!
And maybe some day you will know how to read the Scriptures in their correct context, too.
There is a non-profit organization here in Tulsa which is sending water purifying tubes to Haiti. The head of the organization showed now one could drink the clear water out of a toilet bowl on the local news this evening using the device which can filter 3 liters of water per day.
It didn't turn wine into water or vice versa. It just turns polluted water into potable water.
"I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall."
But that's not Biblical. Death entered the world because of sin. God never intended there to be a cycle of life and death. I realize that as a geologist you may be a theistic evolutionist. The reason I'm not a theistic evolutionist is because of the issue of death. Scripturally, death did not appear until after the fall and it was God's judgment on rebellion. With theistic evolution, you have to make room for death on a massive scale long before the appearance of mankind, which contradicts the Bible.
"I see God's creation of this Earth with plate tectonics and the cycle of life (including physical death) as part of His creation and plan, rather than the result of our Fall."
But that's not Biblical. Death entered the world because of sin. God never intended there to be a cycle of life and death. I realize that as a geologist you may be a theistic evolutionist. The reason I'm not a theistic evolutionist is because of the issue of death. Scripturally, death did not appear until after the fall and it was God's judgment on rebellion. With theistic evolution, you have to make room for death on a massive scale long before the appearance of mankind, which contradicts the Bible.
There was death--plants die when eaten.
The Bible is speaking of spiritual death, which is far more costly than physical death, and is what Adam and Eve brought into the world. If the Bible isn't talking about spiritual death, then it would stand to reason that
a) Adam and Eve would have died immediately after disobeying God's command (for they were promised "for on that day, you shall surely die" if they ate of the fruit).
b) If physical death was conquered by Christ's sacrifice, we should be able to reason that when we become Christians, we no longer PHYSICALLY die, which is not the case.
Also, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden lest they eat of the Tree of Life and live forever. If Adam and Eve (and in fact all creatures) were created to be immortal, what is the purpose of a Tree of Life? There was no need, if they were already immortal.
There was death--plants die when eaten.
The Bible is speaking of spiritual death, which is far more costly than physical death, and is what Adam and Eve brought into the world. If the Bible isn't talking about spiritual death, then it would stand to reason that
a) Adam and Eve would have died immediately after disobeying God's command (for they were promised "for on that day, you shall surely die" if they ate of the fruit).
b) If physical death was conquered by Christ's sacrifice, we should be able to reason that when we become Christians, we no longer PHYSICALLY die, which is not the case.
Also, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden lest they eat of the Tree of Life and live forever. If Adam and Eve (and in fact all creatures) were created to be immortal, what is the purpose of a Tree of Life? There was no need, if they were already immortal.
"Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters."
Curious. Are you saying that God could have created oceans and continents that don't possess waves or tectonic movements? Without tectonic movements, there wouldn't be any mountains; mountains were formed from tectonic movements. The oceans would not have waves only if there were no winds. And thus we would have an earth that is flat with stagnant air, without tectonic movement or winds.
God didn't create the rules of Nature that result in hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. simply to send destruction on human beings. Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, other natural events were happening long before human beings ever came on the Earth. I hate to say it, but human beings aren't the end-all and be-all in the grand scheme of God's Plan.
What human beings have are choices. We can remain selfishly within our own egos. Or we can open ourselves up to God's Strength to help us do the next right thing.
I do agree with you in saying that human beings killing each other have resulted in more human deaths than all of the natural disasters combined.
"Consider that before Adam and Eve's fall into sin, there was no death, not for humans or for animals. And God never intended for death and suffering to exist. God created the laws of nature, such as the movement of techtonic plates that cause earthquakes and tsunamis and he could easily have made the earth without those disasters."
Curious. Are you saying that God could have created oceans and continents that don't possess waves or tectonic movements? Without tectonic movements, there wouldn't be any mountains; mountains were formed from tectonic movements. The oceans would not have waves only if there were no winds. And thus we would have an earth that is flat with stagnant air, without tectonic movement or winds.
God didn't create the rules of Nature that result in hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. simply to send destruction on human beings. Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, other natural events were happening long before human beings ever came on the Earth. I hate to say it, but human beings aren't the end-all and be-all in the grand scheme of God's Plan.
What human beings have are choices. We can remain selfishly within our own egos. Or we can open ourselves up to God's Strength to help us do the next right thing.
I do agree with you in saying that human beings killing each other have resulted in more human deaths than all of the natural disasters combined.
