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Creating Change in the Midst of Crisis: Re-thinking Our Values

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In past years at Davos, I often found myself in early morning optional sessions on social responsibility, in small rooms on the third floor of the conference center, with people like Muhammad Yunus, the founder of the Grameen Bank in Bangladesh and a Nobel Peace Prize winner. But this year, Muhammad and I were on a panel in the main floor in a prime time plenary session at the World Economic Forum called "Re-thinking Values in the Post-Crisis World." Because of the economic crisis, values have become a central conversation at Davos 2010.

We were joined by several CEOs, and all seemed to agree that underneath the economic crisis is also a crisis of values. Last year at Davos, I said that asking "When will the crisis end" was the wrong question, and the right question to ask was "How will this crisis change us?" So a year later, our panel took up the question of how much we are changing. I said that massive bank bonuses in the face of massive economic suffering were a moral scandal, but they were only the symptom of a deeper erosion of societal values. Many seemed to agree, and the word "greed" was lifted up as a primary cause of this crisis, as were "selfishness" and "short-termism." The market is supposed to be a means, not an end in itself. The creation of wealth, necessary goods and services, and jobs -- including the goal of helping lift people out of poverty -- were all set aside for the narrowest goals of simply making as much money as possible. I talked about the need to build "a common good economy" with multiple stakeholders and not just shareholders; and Muhammad Yunus explained his concept of "social business" based on "selflessness" instead of selfishness. One CEO said, "the critics of capitalism are now rising up, and this time, they're not Marxists."

In his opening address later that day, World Economic Forum founder and Executive Chairman Klaus Schwab warned against the danger of thinking the crisis had passed and quickly getting back to "business as usual." Schwab said the WEF was committed to "re-thinking our values, re-designing our systems, and re-building our institutions." If we don't do that, he said, the financial crisis will become a social crisis.

He then introduced Nicolas Sarkozy, the president of France, who was surprisingly candid and clear about the causes of this crisis: "the entrepreneur gave way to the speculator" out for a "fast buck." It was an economics only for "here and now" resulting in a "depreciation of the future." He asked, "How can we return the economy to the service of humankind?" Sarkozy suggested that it was time to put environmental law, labor law, and health law on the same level as trade law and even to consider taxing financial transactions. Banks, he said, have the job of assessing the risks of lending in order to finance the growth of the economy, not speculating for their own huge profits -- agreeing with President Obama's efforts to dissuade banks from proprietary speculation.

And the French president specifically said we can no longer "relegate half of humanity to the sidelines" -- a theme I presented earlier in the day to a "social ideas laboratory" of leaders from business, politics, and civil society. I pointed out that even before this crisis, the global economic system was already failing half of God's children -- three billion people living on less than $2 per day. This is the time to bring them in and include them in the global economy.

These were not the issues at the center of discussion at Davos in past years. The shift shows the opportunity within crisis -- one that we dare not miss.

portrait-jim-wallisJim Wallis is the author of Rediscovering Values: On Wall Street, Main Street, and Your Street -- A Moral Compass for the New Economy, CEO of Sojourners and blogs at www.godspolitics.com.

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by: tinkouse

01-29-2010 @ 4:31pm

Ideologies that favor competition, growth, and hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth" all contribute to the downfall of values. If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion, we stand a much better chance of perpetuating ourselves and the rest of the world upon which we depend.

by: Ngchen

01-29-2010 @ 5:26pm

I like your comment, although it brings up a troubling paradox. If there wasn't a desire and drive to generate at least some "wealth," there's no doubt in my mind that we'd all be third-world countries. But yes, ultimately wealth is meaningless past a certain not very high point, and family, community, and compassion are much more important.

by: revpetersen

01-28-2010 @ 7:24pm

I am glad that you are acknowledging that our problems are not simply material in nature but reflecting the loss of our moral compass. While the following may seem trivial in the scope of Haiti, poverty in general, and the melt down of our economic systems, I thought you might take note. I was listening to ESPN on Tuesday morning. They were interviewing a baseball player commenting about a fellow player McGwire. He commented how his main goal was to get him into the hall of fame even if he did use performance enhancing steriods. I did not think a lot about it. On the surface it seems trivial. Yet as I continued to think about the story it dawned on me that if McGwire does go to the hall of fame then we might as well let insider traders continue to trade fraudulently. McGwire's story is bigger than baseball. It is symptomatic of a loss of connection to what is true. It is symptomatic of our loss of values.

by: pawheel

01-29-2010 @ 6:37pm

Fundamentalist,

SOMEONE had to know that those ratings were false!

by: ElliottCarlin

01-29-2010 @ 5:37pm

This article seems to confirm Wallis as an avante garde name dropper: "As I was cavorting with the elite in Davos...."

Spare us Jim.

Concern yourself with the truth of the Gospel, not your interpretation of it.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:47pm

I know of an ideology that favors competition and economic growth, capitalism, but never heard of one that promotes "hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth". What ideology might that be?

"If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion..."

Those values are excellent for families and tribes where everyone knows everyone else and their circumstances and when everyone is free to share with those they want to share with. But it is disastrous to try to elevate family/tribal values to the national level and to people you don't know. [see F.A. Hayek, Law Legislation and Liberty, Vol.II (1976),]. The just society at the national level runs on the rule of law that respects individual property and treats everyone equally.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:51pm

But the ratings weren't wrong based on what people knew at the time. Had housing prices not collapsed, those who invested in the very same derivatives would be hailed today as geniuses. Those ratings only appeared false after housing prices had collapsed, and no one expected a nationwide collapse in housing prices on the level that they did.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 7:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: xfree9

01-29-2010 @ 1:13am

Thank you, Jim, for reminding us to value that which is most important, and to repent of valuing that which is worthless.

I'm reading your book, and am about halfway through, and blogging a response/analysis to each chapter. While I generally disagree with many things you say, I'm finding this book very valuable.

Blog: www.liveloud.net ; if anybody else is also reading the book, please come and dialogue!

by: pawheel

01-30-2010 @ 1:12am

I'm no financial genius, but I have seen a housing collapse before. In the mid 80s in New England, housing prices were going up unreasonably for years. The thinking was that you can't lose money in real estate, a phrase I was hearing 3, 4, 5 years ago nationwide. Apartments were being converted to condominiums as fast as possible, office buildings being built regardless of existing capacity, etc. Unfortunately, by the late 80s a collapse happened in New England, much like 2 years ago throughout our country. The bad thing was that in New Hampshire the only taxation was on real estate. I had no idea why it happened, but 5 out of the 6 biggest banks in the state had to be taken over by the government. Average people wouldn't be aware of this, but I would expect the so called experts to know some history. But then again, the thought of big profit can blind people to risk since the risk is where the bigger profit comes in.

by: Bruce48

01-29-2010 @ 1:38am

I've been reading REDISCOVERING VALUES. It's good to see Jim and Sojourners speak up on the the greed and debt and false consumerism that has led us to our current economic mess. It felt good to hear about Jesus overturning the tables of the moneychangers. That part of the gospel story has been in my mind this last year. The other gospel message that has been speaking to me is Christ's instruction to people in debt. If a banker demands your coat as collateral on your debt, give him your shirt as well. The idea here was not just to passively demean yourself. Giving your clothes to the debt holder was meant as an act of nonviolent confrontation. If a debtor was made naked, or near naked by a debt holder, in Christ's time, the debt holder would end up embaressed, not the debtor. The debt holder may have a right to your coat, but only a greedy jerk would ever actually take another person's coat. Going nearly naked would be a way to point out what a greedy person the debt holder was.
Given the absurd level of greed demonstrated by Wall Street, I would propose a Sojourner sponsored protest on the steps on Goldman Saks in NY. We would treaspass and block the entrance (like we did on Capital Hill a few years ago) and strip down to our underwear and give our clothes to the Wall Street elite. It's time we draw this kind of attention to the abuse of power and overwhelming greed of Wall Street. Obama and congress say they want regulatory reform of Wall Street and the financial sector, but that reform will only be window dressing unless they get the message that people of faith and conscience are going to hold them accountable for real reform. Rewarding their greed and excessive risk taking, with bailouts that leave these evildoers rich and still in power will just breed more of the same. Obama said in his State of the Union speech last night, that he didn't want to punish anyone on Wall Street. I voted for him, but he's wrong on this. If they're not going to face the "punishment" of failure, then they have to face the regulatory "punishment" of being fired and have their power and position taken from them. These moneychangers need to have their tables overturned.

by: drewj_g

01-29-2010 @ 9:50am

Sarkozy says that we need to "return the economy to the service of humankind" but I think we all know that the economy has never been in the service of human kind. It only serves those in power. And those in power are never going to give that up. What we need to do as a church is begin to work to create a culture where maximum profit is not the goal, but doing good work and taking care of your community is the goal. As long as the seat of power remains in the economic system and not in the political or in the people, we are always going to have these problems.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 1:01pm

Anyone who knows economic history knows that every crisis for the past 300 years has been blamed on greed and speculation. Google for Washington Irving's essay on the Mississippie Bubble in 1720 Paris. Guess what everyone blamed that crisis on?

While most people agree that greed and speculation caused this crisis, where is the evidence? The mortgage backed securities which became "toxic" and brought down the investment banks were rated AAA and AA by ratings agencies (the safest rating outside of government debt) and were hailed by Greenspan, the IMF, and most economists as tools to reduce risk. So how can anyone say that the bankers who bought and sold them were speculating and taking on too much risk?

by: tinkouse

01-29-2010 @ 4:31pm

Ideologies that favor competition, growth, and hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth" all contribute to the downfall of values. If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion, we stand a much better chance of perpetuating ourselves and the rest of the world upon which we depend.

by: Ngchen

01-29-2010 @ 5:26pm

I like your comment, although it brings up a troubling paradox. If there wasn't a desire and drive to generate at least some "wealth," there's no doubt in my mind that we'd all be third-world countries. But yes, ultimately wealth is meaningless past a certain not very high point, and family, community, and compassion are much more important.

by: pawheel

01-29-2010 @ 6:37pm

Fundamentalist,

SOMEONE had to know that those ratings were false!

by: ElliottCarlin

01-29-2010 @ 5:37pm

This article seems to confirm Wallis as an avante garde name dropper: "As I was cavorting with the elite in Davos...."

Spare us Jim.

Concern yourself with the truth of the Gospel, not your interpretation of it.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:47pm

I know of an ideology that favors competition and economic growth, capitalism, but never heard of one that promotes "hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth". What ideology might that be?

"If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion..."

Those values are excellent for families and tribes where everyone knows everyone else and their circumstances and when everyone is free to share with those they want to share with. But it is disastrous to try to elevate family/tribal values to the national level and to people you don't know. [see F.A. Hayek, Law Legislation and Liberty, Vol.II (1976),]. The just society at the national level runs on the rule of law that respects individual property and treats everyone equally.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:51pm

But the ratings weren't wrong based on what people knew at the time. Had housing prices not collapsed, those who invested in the very same derivatives would be hailed today as geniuses. Those ratings only appeared false after housing prices had collapsed, and no one expected a nationwide collapse in housing prices on the level that they did.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:12pm

Experts thought that all real estate collapses were regional and would be offset by gains in other regions. That had been the history of real estate booms/busts since 1929.

by: NC77

01-31-2010 @ 5:19pm

I believe the rating agencies knew the ratings were wrong. They threw out all the rules. For what reason I don't know.

by: pawheel

01-30-2010 @ 1:12am

I'm no financial genius, but I have seen a housing collapse before. In the mid 80s in New England, housing prices were going up unreasonably for years. The thinking was that you can't lose money in real estate, a phrase I was hearing 3, 4, 5 years ago nationwide. Apartments were being converted to condominiums as fast as possible, office buildings being built regardless of existing capacity, etc. Unfortunately, by the late 80s a collapse happened in New England, much like 2 years ago throughout our country. The bad thing was that in New Hampshire the only taxation was on real estate. I had no idea why it happened, but 5 out of the 6 biggest banks in the state had to be taken over by the government. Average people wouldn't be aware of this, but I would expect the so called experts to know some history. But then again, the thought of big profit can blind people to risk since the risk is where the bigger profit comes in.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:13pm

I don't think they did know it. They were following the best financial economics that academia had to offer. And remember, the ratings on the debt did not change until the prices of housing collapsed. And no one predicted a nation-wide collapse in housing prices of the magnitude that happened. A few predicted mild pull backs in housing prices.

by: NC77

02-01-2010 @ 1:50pm

I can't say for sure, I am only a casual student, not an expert on the world of finance. I did see an investigative report on CNBC with David Faber about the whole financial meltdown based on faulty mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps. The report was called 'House of Cards'. It still shows late night (early morning) on CNBC from time to time. The speculators that made money, knew what was going on, while others basically got taken in their igrnorance.

I think it was the report by Faber where I saw a whistleblower that formerly worked for the rating agencies saying no one knew what was in those packaged mortagage backed investments, yet they rated them as prime investmenets anyway. It may be true that the agencies were not aware of what was going on, but I believe some people within the agencies were not rating those investments properly.

As far as predicting the collapse of the housing market, Peter Schiff is the only one I know of who saw it coming and wrote about it before it happened.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 5:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:12pm

Experts thought that all real estate collapses were regional and would be offset by gains in other regions. That had been the history of real estate booms/busts since 1929.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 7:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: NC77

01-31-2010 @ 5:19pm

I believe the rating agencies knew the ratings were wrong. They threw out all the rules. For what reason I don't know.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:13pm

I don't think they did know it. They were following the best financial economics that academia had to offer. And remember, the ratings on the debt did not change until the prices of housing collapsed. And no one predicted a nation-wide collapse in housing prices of the magnitude that happened. A few predicted mild pull backs in housing prices.

by: NC77

02-01-2010 @ 1:50pm

I can't say for sure, I am only a casual student, not an expert on the world of finance. I did see an investigative report on CNBC with David Faber about the whole financial meltdown based on faulty mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps. The report was called 'House of Cards'. It still shows late night (early morning) on CNBC from time to time. The speculators that made money, knew what was going on, while others basically got taken in their igrnorance.

I think it was the report by Faber where I saw a whistleblower that formerly worked for the rating agencies saying no one knew what was in those packaged mortagage backed investments, yet they rated them as prime investmenets anyway. It may be true that the agencies were not aware of what was going on, but I believe some people within the agencies were not rating those investments properly.

As far as predicting the collapse of the housing market, Peter Schiff is the only one I know of who saw it coming and wrote about it before it happened.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 5:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: revpetersen

01-28-2010 @ 7:24pm

I am glad that you are acknowledging that our problems are not simply material in nature but reflecting the loss of our moral compass. While the following may seem trivial in the scope of Haiti, poverty in general, and the melt down of our economic systems, I thought you might take note. I was listening to ESPN on Tuesday morning. They were interviewing a baseball player commenting about a fellow player McGwire. He commented how his main goal was to get him into the hall of fame even if he did use performance enhancing steriods. I did not think a lot about it. On the surface it seems trivial. Yet as I continued to think about the story it dawned on me that if McGwire does go to the hall of fame then we might as well let insider traders continue to trade fraudulently. McGwire's story is bigger than baseball. It is symptomatic of a loss of connection to what is true. It is symptomatic of our loss of values.

by: xfree9

01-29-2010 @ 1:13am

Thank you, Jim, for reminding us to value that which is most important, and to repent of valuing that which is worthless.

I'm reading your book, and am about halfway through, and blogging a response/analysis to each chapter. While I generally disagree with many things you say, I'm finding this book very valuable.

Blog: www.liveloud.net ; if anybody else is also reading the book, please come and dialogue!

by: Bruce48

01-29-2010 @ 1:38am

I've been reading REDISCOVERING VALUES. It's good to see Jim and Sojourners speak up on the the greed and debt and false consumerism that has led us to our current economic mess. It felt good to hear about Jesus overturning the tables of the moneychangers. That part of the gospel story has been in my mind this last year. The other gospel message that has been speaking to me is Christ's instruction to people in debt. If a banker demands your coat as collateral on your debt, give him your shirt as well. The idea here was not just to passively demean yourself. Giving your clothes to the debt holder was meant as an act of nonviolent confrontation. If a debtor was made naked, or near naked by a debt holder, in Christ's time, the debt holder would end up embaressed, not the debtor. The debt holder may have a right to your coat, but only a greedy jerk would ever actually take another person's coat. Going nearly naked would be a way to point out what a greedy person the debt holder was.
Given the absurd level of greed demonstrated by Wall Street, I would propose a Sojourner sponsored protest on the steps on Goldman Saks in NY. We would treaspass and block the entrance (like we did on Capital Hill a few years ago) and strip down to our underwear and give our clothes to the Wall Street elite. It's time we draw this kind of attention to the abuse of power and overwhelming greed of Wall Street. Obama and congress say they want regulatory reform of Wall Street and the financial sector, but that reform will only be window dressing unless they get the message that people of faith and conscience are going to hold them accountable for real reform. Rewarding their greed and excessive risk taking, with bailouts that leave these evildoers rich and still in power will just breed more of the same. Obama said in his State of the Union speech last night, that he didn't want to punish anyone on Wall Street. I voted for him, but he's wrong on this. If they're not going to face the "punishment" of failure, then they have to face the regulatory "punishment" of being fired and have their power and position taken from them. These moneychangers need to have their tables overturned.

by: drewj_g

01-29-2010 @ 9:50am

Sarkozy says that we need to "return the economy to the service of humankind" but I think we all know that the economy has never been in the service of human kind. It only serves those in power. And those in power are never going to give that up. What we need to do as a church is begin to work to create a culture where maximum profit is not the goal, but doing good work and taking care of your community is the goal. As long as the seat of power remains in the economic system and not in the political or in the people, we are always going to have these problems.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 1:01pm

Anyone who knows economic history knows that every crisis for the past 300 years has been blamed on greed and speculation. Google for Washington Irving's essay on the Mississippie Bubble in 1720 Paris. Guess what everyone blamed that crisis on?

While most people agree that greed and speculation caused this crisis, where is the evidence? The mortgage backed securities which became "toxic" and brought down the investment banks were rated AAA and AA by ratings agencies (the safest rating outside of government debt) and were hailed by Greenspan, the IMF, and most economists as tools to reduce risk. So how can anyone say that the bankers who bought and sold them were speculating and taking on too much risk?

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: revpetersen

01-28-2010 @ 7:24pm

I am glad that you are acknowledging that our problems are not simply material in nature but reflecting the loss of our moral compass. While the following may seem trivial in the scope of Haiti, poverty in general, and the melt down of our economic systems, I thought you might take note. I was listening to ESPN on Tuesday morning. They were interviewing a baseball player commenting about a fellow player McGwire. He commented how his main goal was to get him into the hall of fame even if he did use performance enhancing steriods. I did not think a lot about it. On the surface it seems trivial. Yet as I continued to think about the story it dawned on me that if McGwire does go to the hall of fame then we might as well let insider traders continue to trade fraudulently. McGwire's story is bigger than baseball. It is symptomatic of a loss of connection to what is true. It is symptomatic of our loss of values.

by: revpetersen

01-28-2010 @ 7:24pm

I am glad that you are acknowledging that our problems are not simply material in nature but reflecting the loss of our moral compass. While the following may seem trivial in the scope of Haiti, poverty in general, and the melt down of our economic systems, I thought you might take note. I was listening to ESPN on Tuesday morning. They were interviewing a baseball player commenting about a fellow player McGwire. He commented how his main goal was to get him into the hall of fame even if he did use performance enhancing steriods. I did not think a lot about it. On the surface it seems trivial. Yet as I continued to think about the story it dawned on me that if McGwire does go to the hall of fame then we might as well let insider traders continue to trade fraudulently. McGwire's story is bigger than baseball. It is symptomatic of a loss of connection to what is true. It is symptomatic of our loss of values.

by: xfree9

01-29-2010 @ 1:13am

Thank you, Jim, for reminding us to value that which is most important, and to repent of valuing that which is worthless.

I'm reading your book, and am about halfway through, and blogging a response/analysis to each chapter. While I generally disagree with many things you say, I'm finding this book very valuable.

Blog: www.liveloud.net ; if anybody else is also reading the book, please come and dialogue!

by: xfree9

01-29-2010 @ 1:13am

Thank you, Jim, for reminding us to value that which is most important, and to repent of valuing that which is worthless.

I'm reading your book, and am about halfway through, and blogging a response/analysis to each chapter. While I generally disagree with many things you say, I'm finding this book very valuable.

Blog: www.liveloud.net ; if anybody else is also reading the book, please come and dialogue!

by: Bruce48

01-29-2010 @ 1:38am

I've been reading REDISCOVERING VALUES. It's good to see Jim and Sojourners speak up on the the greed and debt and false consumerism that has led us to our current economic mess. It felt good to hear about Jesus overturning the tables of the moneychangers. That part of the gospel story has been in my mind this last year. The other gospel message that has been speaking to me is Christ's instruction to people in debt. If a banker demands your coat as collateral on your debt, give him your shirt as well. The idea here was not just to passively demean yourself. Giving your clothes to the debt holder was meant as an act of nonviolent confrontation. If a debtor was made naked, or near naked by a debt holder, in Christ's time, the debt holder would end up embaressed, not the debtor. The debt holder may have a right to your coat, but only a greedy jerk would ever actually take another person's coat. Going nearly naked would be a way to point out what a greedy person the debt holder was.
Given the absurd level of greed demonstrated by Wall Street, I would propose a Sojourner sponsored protest on the steps on Goldman Saks in NY. We would treaspass and block the entrance (like we did on Capital Hill a few years ago) and strip down to our underwear and give our clothes to the Wall Street elite. It's time we draw this kind of attention to the abuse of power and overwhelming greed of Wall Street. Obama and congress say they want regulatory reform of Wall Street and the financial sector, but that reform will only be window dressing unless they get the message that people of faith and conscience are going to hold them accountable for real reform. Rewarding their greed and excessive risk taking, with bailouts that leave these evildoers rich and still in power will just breed more of the same. Obama said in his State of the Union speech last night, that he didn't want to punish anyone on Wall Street. I voted for him, but he's wrong on this. If they're not going to face the "punishment" of failure, then they have to face the regulatory "punishment" of being fired and have their power and position taken from them. These moneychangers need to have their tables overturned.

by: Bruce48

01-29-2010 @ 1:38am

I've been reading REDISCOVERING VALUES. It's good to see Jim and Sojourners speak up on the the greed and debt and false consumerism that has led us to our current economic mess. It felt good to hear about Jesus overturning the tables of the moneychangers. That part of the gospel story has been in my mind this last year. The other gospel message that has been speaking to me is Christ's instruction to people in debt. If a banker demands your coat as collateral on your debt, give him your shirt as well. The idea here was not just to passively demean yourself. Giving your clothes to the debt holder was meant as an act of nonviolent confrontation. If a debtor was made naked, or near naked by a debt holder, in Christ's time, the debt holder would end up embaressed, not the debtor. The debt holder may have a right to your coat, but only a greedy jerk would ever actually take another person's coat. Going nearly naked would be a way to point out what a greedy person the debt holder was.
Given the absurd level of greed demonstrated by Wall Street, I would propose a Sojourner sponsored protest on the steps on Goldman Saks in NY. We would treaspass and block the entrance (like we did on Capital Hill a few years ago) and strip down to our underwear and give our clothes to the Wall Street elite. It's time we draw this kind of attention to the abuse of power and overwhelming greed of Wall Street. Obama and congress say they want regulatory reform of Wall Street and the financial sector, but that reform will only be window dressing unless they get the message that people of faith and conscience are going to hold them accountable for real reform. Rewarding their greed and excessive risk taking, with bailouts that leave these evildoers rich and still in power will just breed more of the same. Obama said in his State of the Union speech last night, that he didn't want to punish anyone on Wall Street. I voted for him, but he's wrong on this. If they're not going to face the "punishment" of failure, then they have to face the regulatory "punishment" of being fired and have their power and position taken from them. These moneychangers need to have their tables overturned.

by: drewj_g

01-29-2010 @ 9:50am

Sarkozy says that we need to "return the economy to the service of humankind" but I think we all know that the economy has never been in the service of human kind. It only serves those in power. And those in power are never going to give that up. What we need to do as a church is begin to work to create a culture where maximum profit is not the goal, but doing good work and taking care of your community is the goal. As long as the seat of power remains in the economic system and not in the political or in the people, we are always going to have these problems.

by: drewj_g

01-29-2010 @ 9:50am

Sarkozy says that we need to "return the economy to the service of humankind" but I think we all know that the economy has never been in the service of human kind. It only serves those in power. And those in power are never going to give that up. What we need to do as a church is begin to work to create a culture where maximum profit is not the goal, but doing good work and taking care of your community is the goal. As long as the seat of power remains in the economic system and not in the political or in the people, we are always going to have these problems.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 1:01pm

Anyone who knows economic history knows that every crisis for the past 300 years has been blamed on greed and speculation. Google for Washington Irving's essay on the Mississippie Bubble in 1720 Paris. Guess what everyone blamed that crisis on?

While most people agree that greed and speculation caused this crisis, where is the evidence? The mortgage backed securities which became "toxic" and brought down the investment banks were rated AAA and AA by ratings agencies (the safest rating outside of government debt) and were hailed by Greenspan, the IMF, and most economists as tools to reduce risk. So how can anyone say that the bankers who bought and sold them were speculating and taking on too much risk?

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 1:01pm

Anyone who knows economic history knows that every crisis for the past 300 years has been blamed on greed and speculation. Google for Washington Irving's essay on the Mississippie Bubble in 1720 Paris. Guess what everyone blamed that crisis on?

While most people agree that greed and speculation caused this crisis, where is the evidence? The mortgage backed securities which became "toxic" and brought down the investment banks were rated AAA and AA by ratings agencies (the safest rating outside of government debt) and were hailed by Greenspan, the IMF, and most economists as tools to reduce risk. So how can anyone say that the bankers who bought and sold them were speculating and taking on too much risk?

by: tinkouse

01-29-2010 @ 4:31pm

Ideologies that favor competition, growth, and hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth" all contribute to the downfall of values. If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion, we stand a much better chance of perpetuating ourselves and the rest of the world upon which we depend.

by: tinkouse

01-29-2010 @ 4:31pm

Ideologies that favor competition, growth, and hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth" all contribute to the downfall of values. If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion, we stand a much better chance of perpetuating ourselves and the rest of the world upon which we depend.

by: Ngchen

01-29-2010 @ 5:26pm

I like your comment, although it brings up a troubling paradox. If there wasn't a desire and drive to generate at least some "wealth," there's no doubt in my mind that we'd all be third-world countries. But yes, ultimately wealth is meaningless past a certain not very high point, and family, community, and compassion are much more important.

by: Ngchen

01-29-2010 @ 5:26pm

I like your comment, although it brings up a troubling paradox. If there wasn't a desire and drive to generate at least some "wealth," there's no doubt in my mind that we'd all be third-world countries. But yes, ultimately wealth is meaningless past a certain not very high point, and family, community, and compassion are much more important.

by: ElliottCarlin

01-29-2010 @ 5:37pm

This article seems to confirm Wallis as an avante garde name dropper: "As I was cavorting with the elite in Davos...."

Spare us Jim.

Concern yourself with the truth of the Gospel, not your interpretation of it.

by: ElliottCarlin

01-29-2010 @ 5:37pm

This article seems to confirm Wallis as an avante garde name dropper: "As I was cavorting with the elite in Davos...."

Spare us Jim.

Concern yourself with the truth of the Gospel, not your interpretation of it.

by: pawheel

01-29-2010 @ 6:37pm

Fundamentalist,

SOMEONE had to know that those ratings were false!

by: pawheel

01-29-2010 @ 6:37pm

Fundamentalist,

SOMEONE had to know that those ratings were false!

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:47pm

I know of an ideology that favors competition and economic growth, capitalism, but never heard of one that promotes "hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth". What ideology might that be?

"If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion..."

Those values are excellent for families and tribes where everyone knows everyone else and their circumstances and when everyone is free to share with those they want to share with. But it is disastrous to try to elevate family/tribal values to the national level and to people you don't know. [see F.A. Hayek, Law Legislation and Liberty, Vol.II (1976),]. The just society at the national level runs on the rule of law that respects individual property and treats everyone equally.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:47pm

I know of an ideology that favors competition and economic growth, capitalism, but never heard of one that promotes "hierarchies of status based on accumulation of "wealth". What ideology might that be?

"If humanity can consider the novel concepts of enough, community, family, and compassion..."

Those values are excellent for families and tribes where everyone knows everyone else and their circumstances and when everyone is free to share with those they want to share with. But it is disastrous to try to elevate family/tribal values to the national level and to people you don't know. [see F.A. Hayek, Law Legislation and Liberty, Vol.II (1976),]. The just society at the national level runs on the rule of law that respects individual property and treats everyone equally.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:51pm

But the ratings weren't wrong based on what people knew at the time. Had housing prices not collapsed, those who invested in the very same derivatives would be hailed today as geniuses. Those ratings only appeared false after housing prices had collapsed, and no one expected a nationwide collapse in housing prices on the level that they did.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:51pm

But the ratings weren't wrong based on what people knew at the time. Had housing prices not collapsed, those who invested in the very same derivatives would be hailed today as geniuses. Those ratings only appeared false after housing prices had collapsed, and no one expected a nationwide collapse in housing prices on the level that they did.

by: pawheel

01-30-2010 @ 1:12am

I'm no financial genius, but I have seen a housing collapse before. In the mid 80s in New England, housing prices were going up unreasonably for years. The thinking was that you can't lose money in real estate, a phrase I was hearing 3, 4, 5 years ago nationwide. Apartments were being converted to condominiums as fast as possible, office buildings being built regardless of existing capacity, etc. Unfortunately, by the late 80s a collapse happened in New England, much like 2 years ago throughout our country. The bad thing was that in New Hampshire the only taxation was on real estate. I had no idea why it happened, but 5 out of the 6 biggest banks in the state had to be taken over by the government. Average people wouldn't be aware of this, but I would expect the so called experts to know some history. But then again, the thought of big profit can blind people to risk since the risk is where the bigger profit comes in.

by: pawheel

01-30-2010 @ 1:12am

I'm no financial genius, but I have seen a housing collapse before. In the mid 80s in New England, housing prices were going up unreasonably for years. The thinking was that you can't lose money in real estate, a phrase I was hearing 3, 4, 5 years ago nationwide. Apartments were being converted to condominiums as fast as possible, office buildings being built regardless of existing capacity, etc. Unfortunately, by the late 80s a collapse happened in New England, much like 2 years ago throughout our country. The bad thing was that in New Hampshire the only taxation was on real estate. I had no idea why it happened, but 5 out of the 6 biggest banks in the state had to be taken over by the government. Average people wouldn't be aware of this, but I would expect the so called experts to know some history. But then again, the thought of big profit can blind people to risk since the risk is where the bigger profit comes in.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:12pm

Experts thought that all real estate collapses were regional and would be offset by gains in other regions. That had been the history of real estate booms/busts since 1929.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:12pm

Experts thought that all real estate collapses were regional and would be offset by gains in other regions. That had been the history of real estate booms/busts since 1929.

by: NC77

01-31-2010 @ 5:19pm

I believe the rating agencies knew the ratings were wrong. They threw out all the rules. For what reason I don't know.

by: NC77

01-31-2010 @ 5:19pm

I believe the rating agencies knew the ratings were wrong. They threw out all the rules. For what reason I don't know.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:13pm

I don't think they did know it. They were following the best financial economics that academia had to offer. And remember, the ratings on the debt did not change until the prices of housing collapsed. And no one predicted a nation-wide collapse in housing prices of the magnitude that happened. A few predicted mild pull backs in housing prices.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:13pm

I don't think they did know it. They were following the best financial economics that academia had to offer. And remember, the ratings on the debt did not change until the prices of housing collapsed. And no one predicted a nation-wide collapse in housing prices of the magnitude that happened. A few predicted mild pull backs in housing prices.

by: NC77

02-01-2010 @ 1:50pm

I can't say for sure, I am only a casual student, not an expert on the world of finance. I did see an investigative report on CNBC with David Faber about the whole financial meltdown based on faulty mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps. The report was called 'House of Cards'. It still shows late night (early morning) on CNBC from time to time. The speculators that made money, knew what was going on, while others basically got taken in their igrnorance.

I think it was the report by Faber where I saw a whistleblower that formerly worked for the rating agencies saying no one knew what was in those packaged mortagage backed investments, yet they rated them as prime investmenets anyway. It may be true that the agencies were not aware of what was going on, but I believe some people within the agencies were not rating those investments properly.

As far as predicting the collapse of the housing market, Peter Schiff is the only one I know of who saw it coming and wrote about it before it happened.

by: NC77

02-01-2010 @ 1:50pm

I can't say for sure, I am only a casual student, not an expert on the world of finance. I did see an investigative report on CNBC with David Faber about the whole financial meltdown based on faulty mortgage backed securities and credit default swaps. The report was called 'House of Cards'. It still shows late night (early morning) on CNBC from time to time. The speculators that made money, knew what was going on, while others basically got taken in their igrnorance.

I think it was the report by Faber where I saw a whistleblower that formerly worked for the rating agencies saying no one knew what was in those packaged mortagage backed investments, yet they rated them as prime investmenets anyway. It may be true that the agencies were not aware of what was going on, but I believe some people within the agencies were not rating those investments properly.

As far as predicting the collapse of the housing market, Peter Schiff is the only one I know of who saw it coming and wrote about it before it happened.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 5:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 5:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 7:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 7:16pm

I'm skeptical of people who come forward after the fact and claim they knew it was all a fake. That may be the case or they may just want media attention. While those securities were being sold, you had almost all mainstream economists, Alan Greenspan, the IMF and many other officials telling the banks what a great job they were doing by creating these investments that reduce risk for everyone.

Yes, Schiff was great, but it's because he follows Austrian econ. Austrian economists saw this coming, that's true, but very few people follow it.