Israel and Palestine: People Aren't the Enemy

Thanks Brian for your post and your update on what is going on there in West Jerusalem. It is my hope that the efforts by you and others will help to bridge the gap between those on both sides who are striving to end the conflict and the misunderstandings between the people there.

I'm currently reading President Carter's book, "Peace Not Apartheid" and though I have finished only a few chapters, it is clear to me that his goal of seeking solutions there is far more preferable than simply resigning ourselves to the prognosis of self-ordained "experts" on the issues. I sincerely pray that you'll be successful in planting some seeds of reconciliation and that we will, indeed, witness a transformation by "the renewing of minds."

I haven't read Brian book. What doctrine does he get wrong?

Is Jim wrong when he supposedly says Obama is a born again Christian? If I remember correctly, Obama was quoted in Newsweek saying Jesus was his Lord and Savior. Obviously, I don't know what's in his heart, but my presumption is to believe him when it comes to a statement like that.

Brian undermines God's word and does not believe in inerrancy (read the chapter "Why I Am Biblical" in his book "A Generous Orthodoxy"). Undermining Scripture is the method used by Satan throughout Scripture in his attack on truth. Brian uses "good words and fair speeches" (Rom 16) and his books are seductive in the sense of 1 Tim 4:1. We, as Christians, need to be discerning. He likely is a very nice and likable person, but that does not negate the heresy and apostasy. ElliottCarlin's first paragraph has it right.

What "doctrine" is being violated by this article?

I pray that your hair is feeling better.

Meanwhile, I look for those who put Luke 6:32-26 into practice as reliable witnesses to the Truth embodied in Jesus.

And those who deny inerrancy aren't born again, and obviously not intelligent, hence they deny the first fundamental of the Gospel.

Naming Jesus is not the answer, and can do nothing; it is the Person of Jesus Christ that has Power. The Scriptures declare the Person of Jesus Christ is God The Son, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead. Hence, Unitarians are not Christians, denying His Divinity.

If Jesus is not God, we are still in our sins, thereby no incarnation, and no atonement. Christ must be sinless, thereby Divine, or He would need atonement Himself. Of course, this is what the Scriptures teach.

Once inerrancy is denied, heresy comes in, and you have no Christianity. If one verse is denied, what is to say any other verse is spurious?

Inerrancy is mandatory! Love is not a fundamental; we fall short of loving properly our families. Non believers can love, mostly darkness, so it is irrelevant.

Scripture states that anything done without love is tinkling symbols
and sounding brass. Scripture also says we should be able to rightly
divide the word of truth. Jesus spoke the truth to people including
the statement "unless you repent you will all likewise perish." He
didn't win friends by doing so. He said, "the world hates me because
I testify of it that its deeds are evil." One of the things about
Brian McLaren and many other emergent-types is that they think it is
arrogant and proud to say that you know that something is true, and
following that view they try to accommodate all sorts of views and
beliefs so as not to offend anybody. Jesus was not that way. Truth
to the emergents is nothing more than jello. They communicate a
message that is meant to undermine the Word of God, and doing-so not
only is unloving toward those who need to hear truth, it is
characteristic of the method Satan uses throughout Scripture to
undermine what God says.

So according to your understanding, I am on Satan's side. You are battling against me, standing for the Truth.

I am jello, you are tough.

I avoid offending people, except when I am undermining the Word of God. That's when I tick you off.

And it looks like in order to get into the Kingdom I will have to lose an argument with you first... and stop finding inspiration from Wallis and McLaren. Anything else?

This has been tough day on me. I woke up this morning secure in Christ's love for me and for the world. My task was to join God's work of bringing the will and Kingdom of God on earth as it already is in heaven. Now I discover I have had the wrong focus. No wonder they called me a duh-sciple!

Just evaluate things in light of the Word of God. The New Testament
speaks over and over again about heresy and apostasy entering into the
church. Satan does disguise himself as an angel of light and his
ministers are disguised as ministers of righteousness. Brian McLaren
does lead many astray and does not hold to truth. That is just the
way it is. I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but he is
leading many astray and I will continue to point it out. People are
deceived these days by "seducing spirits," and Brian McLaren is a
seducing spirit. Evaluate his writings, such as "Everything Must
Change," and "A Generous Orthodoxy." If you are familiar with
Scripture, you can see what I mean.

This is my first comment posting and looking over the Comment Code of Conduct, I found you to be in a rather ironic position: You cite the Scriptures as it relates to conduct, yet you question those very Scriptures when it comes to doctrine, as evidenced by your book, A New Kind of Christianity.

Truth is, apostasy is alive and well, and when I hear a Rev Jim Wallis proclaim Obama to be a born-again Christian, it makes my hair hurt.

When we leave our first love, Christ the Living Word, it stands to reason we'll leave our second love, the Scriptures, the written and infallible Word of God.

Then how are we to know that you are not an angel of light? How are we to know that you are not one of those deceived by the "spirit of the age"? The true apostasy is the idolatry of worshiping something made of wood. The Word of God is living and powerful not static and hopeless as you present it.

Thanks Brian for your post and your update on what is going on there in West Jerusalem. It is my hope that the efforts by you and others will help to bridge the gap between those on both sides who are striving to end the conflict and the misunderstandings between the people there.

I'm currently reading President Carter's book, "Peace Not Apartheid" and though I have finished only a few chapters, it is clear to me that his goal of seeking solutions there is far more preferable than simply resigning ourselves to the prognosis of self-ordained "experts" on the issues. I sincerely pray that you'll be successful in planting some seeds of reconciliation and that we will, indeed, witness a transformation by "the renewing of minds."

According to the "inerrancy rule," Philip was wrong for baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch, welcoming this "defective" into God's family.>

What? Philip did not deny inerrancy. What is your point?

Everything you said is fine if you believe inerrancy. If you don't believe it, you are attacking God's sovereignty for preserving his Word for us. Jesus, Himself, said the entire Old Testament was inspired.

Some comments on your reactions to "A Generous Orthodoxy":

"Interestingly when scripture talks about itself it doesn't use words like

You might want to look over such code again. You can have all your "doctrine" right but, as I Corinthians 13 says, it's worthless without love (in context, justice).

self certification is always the best route. What happens when your Holy Spirit leads you differently than mine. The bible indicates that "you will know them by their fruit"

I'm not sure how taking a position in direct conflict with clear
statements of Scripture on certain culturally sensitive issues, as
does McLaren, supports the idea that he holds the Word in high
esteem. He undermines the Word, as I have stated. Commentaries are
useful, but they are not the Word of God. I do consider what is
written in commentaries, but I formulate my positions base on my
reading of Scripture,
as should all Christians.

"when I hear a Rev Jim Wallis proclaim Obama to be a born-again Christian, it makes my hair hurt."

Why?

Surely, you can't call him a seducing spirit.

I don't agree or disagree with you on this, having not read his books but to call another Christian (regardless of whether you believe him to be wrong) a seducing spirit and imply him to be a minister of Satan.

I like to be aware of what liberal-progressive, post-modern, emergent
types are thinking because this stuff has a way of subtly infiltrating
the church, which is what Scripture warns about over and over. Unless
one knows what to look for, it can gain a foothold and lead many
astray. I read what is being written to gain this sense. I agree
that I wasn't addressing what Brian said, I was replying to a comment
made by someone else. What bothers me is that a lot of what is done
and said is good, but heretical views are then thrown into the mix by
people like McLaren and without a knowledge of Scripture many less
discerning sheep are led astray. He is a seducing spirit who, in his
books, mixes heresy with "good words and fair speeches." We had a
mess in our church because this stuff wiggled its way in.

What an introduction!
Then, why are you posting here? There is usually a well reasoned discussion here amongst intelligent, respectful persons utilizing the events of the day as a venue. Those who have all the answers need no forum.

Here is your reference in context. Could you show me how McLaren "fits" this description? It would be nice if you could cite McLaren himself for the description.
1Tim4: "1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer."

Thank you for the glimpse of the pain in your life that gives rise to the edge in your posts. You are understandably defensive and looking for a place of certainty in the midst of the shifting sands of these times. I will pray for your church to continue a faithful witness to God's love in your community. One thing we certainly can agree with is that the Church is under spiritual attack in North America. I think we just differ in identifying the spirit. Peace.

Naming Jesus is not the answer, and can do nothing; it is the Person of Jesus Christ that has Power. The Scriptures declare the Person of Jesus Christ is God The Son, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead. Hence, Unitarians are not Christians, denying His Divinity.

If Jesus is not God, we are still in our sins, thereby no incarnation, and no atonement. Christ must be sinless, thereby Divine, or He would need atonement Himself. Of course, this is what the Scriptures teach.

Once inerrancy is denied, heresy comes in, and you have no Christianity. If one verse is denied, what is to say any other verse is spurious?

Inerrancy is mandatory! Love is not a fundamental; we fall short of loving properly our families. Non believers can love, mostly darkness, so it is irrelevant.