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A Two Step Program for Reforming Wall Street's Gambling Addicts

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Notwithstanding President Obama's denunciation Wednesday night of the empty "prosperity" that was "built on a housing bubble and financial speculation," the Wall Street bubble profiteers are shocked -- shocked! -- to discover that there was gambling going on in their establishments. In particular, in all those commodity-future-based index funds, mortgage-backed securities, and, well, nothing-backed securities -- you know, the ones that the financial world made a mint selling until they ran the global economy off of a cliff.

More precisely, Wall Street heads have professed themselves shocked to realize that the prices of said "investments" had little to do with the supply and demand for houses, or for commodities, or for, well, credit defaults. (The problem isn't that most people didn't understand that term -- the problem is that, apparently, nobody understood it). Instead, those prices were a big old bubble reflecting the supply of bubble-riding global investment cash -- and, as we have seen, when those bubbles pop, they take the rest of us down with them.

"The next 2-3 weeks are crucial for getting any significant financial reform as the Senate works on finalizing Senator Dodd's bill," says says Dave Kane, one of the activists behind www.stopgamblingonhunger.org. "We have an incredibly broad alliance of over 450 business, labor, consumer, farmer, religious and international development organizations working together for common-sense reform, but we see that Wall Street, incredibly, still has a lot of power in Congress. Wall Street spent over $300 million just in the last part of 2009 to weaken any financial reform efforts, and it has paid off. It's important that Congress hears from more than just Wall Street. Senators need to hear from voters that they want strong financial reforms."

This is a clarifying moment for me, because it looks like, in its starkest form, a battle between the real economy of actual goods and services on one side, and the "financial" economy on the other. (Don't get me wrong -- I like having a checking account; it's just the crashing-the-world-economy part, and helping-cause-the-2008-food-crisis part that I am opposed to.)

So, what are advocates like Kane demanding? For the financial-reform bill currently being crafted in the Senate, primarily two things:

1) Make all "over-the-counter" derivatives trade or clear through an exchange clearinghouse. Although the name sounds innocuous, as if Goldman Sachs was out there selling financial ibuprofen, what "OTC" means on Wall Street is that it's a deal which isn't listed out in the open on a stock exchange. The people who sell them insist that this is because each one has to be hand-crafted to be too extra-special to be listed on an exchange. It is nothing more than coincidence -- honest! -- that "over the counter" sales also happen to be a way to avoid putting down any actual collateral for your purchases, as exchanges require, or letting buyers better gauge what the going price should be (so that Wall Street can't take advantage of their clients), or letting markets and regulators know who owns what so that they can see systemic risks and avoid panics.

2) For energy (and carbon) futures, real limits on how much any one Wall Street bank or trading house can buy up at one time, to prevent bubbles that hurt farmers, eaters, etc. (Actual commodity producers or consumers looking to hedge their financial risks would be exempt.)

The message of advocates like Dave is clear: No back-room gambling on hunger. No Wall Street loopholes. No excuses.

portrait-elizabeth-palmbergElizabeth Palmberg is an assistant editor at Sojourners magazine.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 2:55pm

The irrational faith that people have in politicians and regulators is touching. But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place. No one ever sets out to design bad regulations. But after hundreds of years of regulation, financial crises are about as bad as they ever were. For examples, see Reinhart and Rogoff's "This time is different: eight centuries of financial folly."

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 3:23pm

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?

2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?

3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: csack

01-29-2010 @ 5:30pm

how come no one ever pulls out the 'don't judge' card for wall street bankers? it's used for everything else.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 5:48pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

"3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 5:57pm

Wasn't Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs CEO, using the "don't judge" card when he stated in his own defense, "We're doing God's work here" ?

Was the financial meltdown an Act of God then?

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 6:16pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall.
We've already been there.
Did we learn anything?

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?

3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?

Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?

by: Charles Kiker

06-20-2011 @ 8:28am

LinkedIn

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This is a reminder that on June 7, Charles Kiker sent you an invitation to become part of his or her professional network at LinkedIn.

Follow this link to accept Charles Kiker's invitation.

https://www.linkedin.com/e/crh...

Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:58pm

"Prove it."

Prove it wrong.

"Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall."

We haven't had laissez-faire economics for over a century. We're mostly socialist.

"What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?"

Better economic theory, less socialism.

"3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?"

Yes.

"Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?"

Yes.

by: BlueDeacon

01-29-2010 @ 7:38pm

Better economic theory, less socialism.

You'll have to do better than that -- because the fallenness of human nature is always a factor.

by: ckgmail

01-30-2010 @ 2:25pm

I'm amazed by Fundamentalist's absolute dogmatic certainty of his positions. But I shouldn't be. After all, he calls himself "Fundamentalist."

by: justintime

01-30-2010 @ 3:45pm

Fundamentalist says:

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

Prove it wrong

OK, following is a short list of well known economists who predicted the "current crisis" well ahead of the "free market" ideologues.
All of these economists advocate regulation of financial markets to avoid or moderate the creation of economic bubbles:

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz predicted [in October 2006] a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington pointed out the bubble in the US housing market in 2002.

Michael Hudson is a Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri (Kansas City), president of the Institute for the Study of Long-term Economic Trends and a Wall Street financial analyst. In 2005 Hudson wrote a more a still more specific article entitled 'The Road to Serfdom: An Illustrated Guide to the Coming Real Estate Collapse'

Wynne Godley was Professor of Applied Economics at the University of Cambridge, UK and a Distinguished Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, New York (1994-2001).
From 2000 he consistently argued a US housing market slowdown was unavoidable in the medium term, and that its implication would be recession in the US.

The British Fred Harrison in his first book, "The Power in the Land" (1983), forecast the recessions in the leading industrial economies in 1992..

Eric Janszen is an investor and commentator. He established the iTulip website in November 1998 to parody the then rampant 'Internet Bubble' as a speculative mania. He called the top of the dotcom bubble in March 2000 and shut the site down after the dotcom crash of that year; but started it again as the housing market developed into what he believed to be a bubble.

Stephen Keen is Associate Professor of Economics & Finance at the University of Western Sydney and a fellow of the Centre for Policy Development. Keen (2008) wrote that "[i]n December 2005, almost two years before the crisis hit, I realised that a serious financial crisis was approaching. I was so worried about its probable severity

by: letjusticerolldown

01-30-2010 @ 5:13pm

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

I read no further. Of course you can take the stance that humanity is futile which is maybe where you are coming from. But I don't think the view to be Biblical nor wise. There is a time and a place for good regulation--and good regulation need not be perfect regulation. It takes the exercise of wisdom to craft something better than nothing and to know the boundaries.

We need wisdom--not knne-jerk reactions.

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:35pm

Am I hearing you correctly?

I am hearing...

All regulation of the Market is bad

No one has ever come up with a good regulation

If we just let the Market go, then the Market will fix everything

Do I have the gist, or not?

by: dlondonx

02-03-2010 @ 2:58pm

Wait a bit here. I see you pay tribute to alot of 'economics', but 99% of economists would disagree that the use of paper currency was bad. (Read marginalrevolution.com for a couple of libertarians views that disagree with you). Also, was it not theft when the countries with the more powerful armies stole the gold (or oil) from those with the least powerful armies, and then claimed it as their 'property'? In fact, your beloved banks thrived on the use of currency, since they no longer had to worry about the high transaction costs of transporting large boxes of gold between buildings, cities, or even countries. By reclaiming the money lost to this inefficiency, everyone's lives have been made better.

Besides, its not as if we dont have some commodities that form the basis of our 'paper'. You could value a dollar bill based on the aggregate ability of our economy to turn oil, coal, and natural gas into stuff and services. This aggregate ability is influenced by both private actions (entrepeneurs and corporations) and government actions (roads, rails, police protection, civil liberties to produce a stable, safe political environment, monopoly protection, subsidies, grants, tarrifs, taxes, etc.). Without either of these two systems, everyones lives would be much worse.

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:38pm

What is the Market? God? A principality and power? A false idol? An agent of nature like the weather? A demon? An angel?

Can we serve both God and the Market?

by: dlondonx

02-03-2010 @ 4:58pm

Wait a bit here. I see you pay tribute to alot of 'economics', but 99% of economists would disagree that the use of paper currency was bad. (Read marginalrevolution.com for a couple of libertarians views that disagree with you). Also, was it not theft when the countries with the more powerful armies stole the gold (or oil) from those with the least powerful armies, and then claimed it as their 'property'? In fact, your beloved banks thrived on the use of currency, since they no longer had to worry about the high transaction costs of transporting large boxes of gold between buildings, cities, or even countries. By reclaiming the money lost to this inefficiency, everyone's lives have been made better.

Besides, its not as if we dont have some commodities that form the basis of our 'paper'. You could value a dollar bill based on the aggregate ability of our economy to turn oil, coal, and natural gas into stuff and services. This aggregate ability is influenced by both private actions (entrepeneurs and corporations) and government actions (roads, rails, police protection, civil liberties to produce a stable, safe political environment, monopoly protection, subsidies, grants, tarrifs, taxes, etc.). Without either of these two systems, everyones lives would be much worse.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 2:55pm

The irrational faith that people have in politicians and regulators is touching. But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place. No one ever sets out to design bad regulations. But after hundreds of years of regulation, financial crises are about as bad as they ever were. For examples, see Reinhart and Rogoff's "This time is different: eight centuries of financial folly."

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 3:23pm

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?

2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?

3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: csack

01-29-2010 @ 5:30pm

how come no one ever pulls out the 'don't judge' card for wall street bankers? it's used for everything else.

by: Brent Hardaway

01-31-2010 @ 1:00am

I think what csack means is that SoJo will pull out the "don't judge" card for anybody that fits a politically correct narrative of victim but won't use it when the perpetrator is white and capitalistic. They'll condemn Wall Street for greed, but never Third World left-wing thugs who starve their people.

Incidentally, I'm curious as to when SoJo is going to acknowledge the meltdown and thorough discrediting of man-caused global warming that has transpired over the last two months, and the multi-billion dollar heist that was pulled off there. And repent for aiding and abetting it.

The longer they fail to do that, the more I become convinced of their lack of any integrity.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 5:48pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

"3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 5:57pm

Wasn't Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs CEO, using the "don't judge" card when he stated in his own defense, "We're doing God's work here" ?

Was the financial meltdown an Act of God then?

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 6:16pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall.
We've already been there.
Did we learn anything?

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?

3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?

Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:02pm

It's almost never a factor. The "fallenness of human nature" is a constant. Financial crises are cycles. It's illogical to blame a cycle on a constant.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:04pm

Financial crises have been a regular feature of the West for over 300 years in spite of increasing regulation. All regulation is deemed wise when it is written, but it has always failed. It will fail again. Blaming greed and speculation has been the knee-jerk reaction for the past 300 years.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:06pm

We need the rule of law, which prevents fraud and theft. Free marketeers have always insisted on that. But regulation has never stopped a depression or financial crisis in over 300 years. The problem lies elsewhere, in monetary policy.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:09pm

The market is nothing more than the place where humanity comes together to sell what it has produced in order to have the funds to buy what it needs, nothing more.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:58pm

"Prove it."

Prove it wrong.

"Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall."

We haven't had laissez-faire economics for over a century. We're mostly socialist.

"What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?"

Better economic theory, less socialism.

"3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?"

Yes.

"Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?"

Yes.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you think ignorance is a virtue?

by: BlueDeacon

01-29-2010 @ 7:38pm

Better economic theory, less socialism.

You'll have to do better than that -- because the fallenness of human nature is always a factor.

by: ckgmail

01-31-2010 @ 4:33pm

No, and nothing in my statement indicates that I think ignorance is a virtue. Neither is arrogance.

by: Charles Kiker

06-13-2011 @ 12:32pm

LinkedIn

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This is a reminder that on June 7, Charles Kiker sent you an invitation to become part of his or her professional network at LinkedIn.

Follow this link to accept Charles Kiker's invitation.

https://www.linkedin.com/e/crh...

Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.

by: BlueDeacon

01-31-2010 @ 5:55pm

Not if you read the Scripture, it isn't. The only difference is that some
things are more emphasized than others at different times -- greed at some
times, sexual immorality at others, political intrigue ... you get the picture
(I hope).

by: letjusticerolldown

01-31-2010 @ 7:41pm

Environmental degradation has been a regular feature of the industrialized world for the past 300 years. Just because there has been environmental regulation and environmental degradation does not mean the regulation is either the cause or contributor to crises. Of course it can be wrong-headed. That is not an excuse to abandon regulation. The fundamental purpose of regulation is not to restrain crises but to provide a framework within which certain activities can flouish within the bounds of rules.

by: ckgmail

01-30-2010 @ 2:25pm

I'm amazed by Fundamentalist's absolute dogmatic certainty of his positions. But I shouldn't be. After all, he calls himself "Fundamentalist."

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:03pm

What in scripture describes sin as the cause of financial cycles?

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:04pm

I was referring to economic regulation, not environmental regulation. They follow different principles.

by: justintime

01-30-2010 @ 3:45pm

Fundamentalist says:

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

Prove it wrong

OK, following is a short list of well known economists who predicted the "current crisis" well ahead of the "free market" ideologues.
All of these economists advocate regulation of financial markets to avoid or moderate the creation of economic bubbles:

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz predicted [in October 2006] a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington pointed out the bubble in the US housing market in 2002.

Michael Hudson is a Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri (Kansas City), president of the Institute for the Study of Long-term Economic Trends and a Wall Street financial analyst. In 2005 Hudson wrote a more a still more specific article entitled 'The Road to Serfdom: An Illustrated Guide to the Coming Real Estate Collapse'

Wynne Godley was Professor of Applied Economics at the University of Cambridge, UK and a Distinguished Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, New York (1994-2001).
From 2000 he consistently argued a US housing market slowdown was unavoidable in the medium term, and that its implication would be recession in the US.

The British Fred Harrison in his first book, "The Power in the Land" (1983), forecast the recessions in the leading industrial economies in 1992..

Eric Janszen is an investor and commentator. He established the iTulip website in November 1998 to parody the then rampant 'Internet Bubble' as a speculative mania. He called the top of the dotcom bubble in March 2000 and shut the site down after the dotcom crash of that year; but started it again as the housing market developed into what he believed to be a bubble.

Stephen Keen is Associate Professor of Economics & Finance at the University of Western Sydney and a fellow of the Centre for Policy Development. Keen (2008) wrote that "[i]n December 2005, almost two years before the crisis hit, I realised that a serious financial crisis was approaching. I was so worried about its probable severity

by: letjusticerolldown

01-30-2010 @ 5:13pm

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

I read no further. Of course you can take the stance that humanity is futile which is maybe where you are coming from. But I don't think the view to be Biblical nor wise. There is a time and a place for good regulation--and good regulation need not be perfect regulation. It takes the exercise of wisdom to craft something better than nothing and to know the boundaries.

We need wisdom--not knne-jerk reactions.

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:35pm

Am I hearing you correctly?

I am hearing...

All regulation of the Market is bad

No one has ever come up with a good regulation

If we just let the Market go, then the Market will fix everything

Do I have the gist, or not?

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:38pm

What is the Market? God? A principality and power? A false idol? An agent of nature like the weather? A demon? An angel?

Can we serve both God and the Market?

by: letjusticerolldown

02-01-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you can't think of one economic regulation you agree with? Do you agree with having a financial system? Do you agree with having a currency? Do you agree with controls on how much currency is printed?

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 5:06pm

No to most of the above. Money started out as a commodity, gold and silver, and private property, and that's how it should be. Early in the history of money rulers figured out how to cheat people out of their property by giving themselves a monopoly on makind coins out of gold and silver.

Because commodity money still left too much power in the hands of the people, rulers decided to force people to use paper money. In the US this happened when FDR outlawed private ownership of gold. With that, the state could print as much paper as it wanted and pay its bills to people with increasingly worthless paper. It's a form of theft. We dignify that theft by calling it inflation.

"Do you agree with controls on how much currency is printed?"

That would be nice, but we have had no controls on how much the Fed prints for about 80 years.

by: letjusticerolldown

02-01-2010 @ 5:26pm

You still have not come up with one financial regulation you like. You hint that you might like monetary exchange in the form of gold. Would you back a standard as to the purity of the gold used in minting the coins? Or maybe it would be most pure if we simply went back to a barter system. Better yet--how about if we simply don't engage in commerce?

by: Brent Hardaway

01-31-2010 @ 1:00am

I think what csack means is that SoJo will pull out the "don't judge" card for anybody that fits a politically correct narrative of victim but won't use it when the perpetrator is white and capitalistic. They'll condemn Wall Street for greed, but never Third World left-wing thugs who starve their people.

Incidentally, I'm curious as to when SoJo is going to acknowledge the meltdown and thorough discrediting of man-caused global warming that has transpired over the last two months, and the multi-billion dollar heist that was pulled off there. And repent for aiding and abetting it.

The longer they fail to do that, the more I become convinced of their lack of any integrity.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:02pm

It's almost never a factor. The "fallenness of human nature" is a constant. Financial crises are cycles. It's illogical to blame a cycle on a constant.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:04pm

Financial crises have been a regular feature of the West for over 300 years in spite of increasing regulation. All regulation is deemed wise when it is written, but it has always failed. It will fail again. Blaming greed and speculation has been the knee-jerk reaction for the past 300 years.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:06pm

We need the rule of law, which prevents fraud and theft. Free marketeers have always insisted on that. But regulation has never stopped a depression or financial crisis in over 300 years. The problem lies elsewhere, in monetary policy.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:09pm

The market is nothing more than the place where humanity comes together to sell what it has produced in order to have the funds to buy what it needs, nothing more.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you think ignorance is a virtue?

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 2:55pm

The irrational faith that people have in politicians and regulators is touching. But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place. No one ever sets out to design bad regulations. But after hundreds of years of regulation, financial crises are about as bad as they ever were. For examples, see Reinhart and Rogoff's "This time is different: eight centuries of financial folly."

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 2:55pm

The irrational faith that people have in politicians and regulators is touching. But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place. No one ever sets out to design bad regulations. But after hundreds of years of regulation, financial crises are about as bad as they ever were. For examples, see Reinhart and Rogoff's "This time is different: eight centuries of financial folly."

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 3:23pm

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?

2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?

3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 3:23pm

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?

2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?

3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: csack

01-29-2010 @ 5:30pm

how come no one ever pulls out the 'don't judge' card for wall street bankers? it's used for everything else.

by: csack

01-29-2010 @ 5:30pm

how come no one ever pulls out the 'don't judge' card for wall street bankers? it's used for everything else.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 5:48pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

"3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 5:48pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

"3. Do you think repeal of provisions in the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, by the November 12, 1999 Gramm

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 5:57pm

Wasn't Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs CEO, using the "don't judge" card when he stated in his own defense, "We're doing God's work here" ?

Was the financial meltdown an Act of God then?

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 5:57pm

Wasn't Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs CEO, using the "don't judge" card when he stated in his own defense, "We're doing God's work here" ?

Was the financial meltdown an Act of God then?

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 6:16pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall.
We've already been there.
Did we learn anything?

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?

3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?

Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?

by: justintime

01-29-2010 @ 6:16pm

"This is a false statement."

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall.
We've already been there.
Did we learn anything?

"2. Do you think the "current crisis" was preventable?"

Absolutely, but not by an army of regulators.

What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?

3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?

Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:58pm

"Prove it."

Prove it wrong.

"Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall."

We haven't had laissez-faire economics for over a century. We're mostly socialist.

"What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?"

Better economic theory, less socialism.

"3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?"

Yes.

"Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?"

Yes.

by: fundamentalist

01-29-2010 @ 6:58pm

"Prove it."

Prove it wrong.

"Laissez faire economics - a free for all, followed by free fall."

We haven't had laissez-faire economics for over a century. We're mostly socialist.

"What would you suggest for preventing another extremely painful financial meltdown?"

Better economic theory, less socialism.

"3. Does fundamentalist blame the Fed's monetary policy under Greenspan for the financial meltdown?"

Yes.

"Greed was not a factor and Wall Street bankers are off the hook?"

Yes.

by: BlueDeacon

01-29-2010 @ 7:38pm

Better economic theory, less socialism.

You'll have to do better than that -- because the fallenness of human nature is always a factor.

by: BlueDeacon

01-29-2010 @ 7:38pm

Better economic theory, less socialism.

You'll have to do better than that -- because the fallenness of human nature is always a factor.

by: ckgmail

01-30-2010 @ 2:25pm

I'm amazed by Fundamentalist's absolute dogmatic certainty of his positions. But I shouldn't be. After all, he calls himself "Fundamentalist."

by: ckgmail

01-30-2010 @ 2:25pm

I'm amazed by Fundamentalist's absolute dogmatic certainty of his positions. But I shouldn't be. After all, he calls himself "Fundamentalist."

by: justintime

01-30-2010 @ 3:45pm

Fundamentalist says:

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

Prove it wrong

OK, following is a short list of well known economists who predicted the "current crisis" well ahead of the "free market" ideologues.
All of these economists advocate regulation of financial markets to avoid or moderate the creation of economic bubbles:

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz predicted [in October 2006] a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington pointed out the bubble in the US housing market in 2002.

Michael Hudson is a Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri (Kansas City), president of the Institute for the Study of Long-term Economic Trends and a Wall Street financial analyst. In 2005 Hudson wrote a more a still more specific article entitled 'The Road to Serfdom: An Illustrated Guide to the Coming Real Estate Collapse'

Wynne Godley was Professor of Applied Economics at the University of Cambridge, UK and a Distinguished Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, New York (1994-2001).
From 2000 he consistently argued a US housing market slowdown was unavoidable in the medium term, and that its implication would be recession in the US.

The British Fred Harrison in his first book, "The Power in the Land" (1983), forecast the recessions in the leading industrial economies in 1992..

Eric Janszen is an investor and commentator. He established the iTulip website in November 1998 to parody the then rampant 'Internet Bubble' as a speculative mania. He called the top of the dotcom bubble in March 2000 and shut the site down after the dotcom crash of that year; but started it again as the housing market developed into what he believed to be a bubble.

Stephen Keen is Associate Professor of Economics & Finance at the University of Western Sydney and a fellow of the Centre for Policy Development. Keen (2008) wrote that "[i]n December 2005, almost two years before the crisis hit, I realised that a serious financial crisis was approaching. I was so worried about its probable severity

by: justintime

01-30-2010 @ 3:45pm

Fundamentalist says:

But consider that before the current crisis, all politicians and regulators thought they had excellent regulation in place.

This is a false statement.

No it's not. It's true.

Prove it.

Prove it wrong

OK, following is a short list of well known economists who predicted the "current crisis" well ahead of the "free market" ideologues.
All of these economists advocate regulation of financial markets to avoid or moderate the creation of economic bubbles:

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz predicted [in October 2006] a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington pointed out the bubble in the US housing market in 2002.

Michael Hudson is a Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri (Kansas City), president of the Institute for the Study of Long-term Economic Trends and a Wall Street financial analyst. In 2005 Hudson wrote a more a still more specific article entitled 'The Road to Serfdom: An Illustrated Guide to the Coming Real Estate Collapse'

Wynne Godley was Professor of Applied Economics at the University of Cambridge, UK and a Distinguished Scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, New York (1994-2001).
From 2000 he consistently argued a US housing market slowdown was unavoidable in the medium term, and that its implication would be recession in the US.

The British Fred Harrison in his first book, "The Power in the Land" (1983), forecast the recessions in the leading industrial economies in 1992..

Eric Janszen is an investor and commentator. He established the iTulip website in November 1998 to parody the then rampant 'Internet Bubble' as a speculative mania. He called the top of the dotcom bubble in March 2000 and shut the site down after the dotcom crash of that year; but started it again as the housing market developed into what he believed to be a bubble.

Stephen Keen is Associate Professor of Economics & Finance at the University of Western Sydney and a fellow of the Centre for Policy Development. Keen (2008) wrote that "[i]n December 2005, almost two years before the crisis hit, I realised that a serious financial crisis was approaching. I was so worried about its probable severity

by: letjusticerolldown

01-30-2010 @ 5:13pm

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

I read no further. Of course you can take the stance that humanity is futile which is maybe where you are coming from. But I don't think the view to be Biblical nor wise. There is a time and a place for good regulation--and good regulation need not be perfect regulation. It takes the exercise of wisdom to craft something better than nothing and to know the boundaries.

We need wisdom--not knne-jerk reactions.

by: letjusticerolldown

01-30-2010 @ 5:13pm

"1. Do you think that all measures to regulate financial markets are futile?"

Yes.

I read no further. Of course you can take the stance that humanity is futile which is maybe where you are coming from. But I don't think the view to be Biblical nor wise. There is a time and a place for good regulation--and good regulation need not be perfect regulation. It takes the exercise of wisdom to craft something better than nothing and to know the boundaries.

We need wisdom--not knne-jerk reactions.

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:35pm

Am I hearing you correctly?

I am hearing...

All regulation of the Market is bad

No one has ever come up with a good regulation

If we just let the Market go, then the Market will fix everything

Do I have the gist, or not?

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:35pm

Am I hearing you correctly?

I am hearing...

All regulation of the Market is bad

No one has ever come up with a good regulation

If we just let the Market go, then the Market will fix everything

Do I have the gist, or not?

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:38pm

What is the Market? God? A principality and power? A false idol? An agent of nature like the weather? A demon? An angel?

Can we serve both God and the Market?

by: duhsciple

01-30-2010 @ 7:38pm

What is the Market? God? A principality and power? A false idol? An agent of nature like the weather? A demon? An angel?

Can we serve both God and the Market?

by: Brent Hardaway

01-31-2010 @ 1:00am

I think what csack means is that SoJo will pull out the "don't judge" card for anybody that fits a politically correct narrative of victim but won't use it when the perpetrator is white and capitalistic. They'll condemn Wall Street for greed, but never Third World left-wing thugs who starve their people.

Incidentally, I'm curious as to when SoJo is going to acknowledge the meltdown and thorough discrediting of man-caused global warming that has transpired over the last two months, and the multi-billion dollar heist that was pulled off there. And repent for aiding and abetting it.

The longer they fail to do that, the more I become convinced of their lack of any integrity.

by: Brent Hardaway

01-31-2010 @ 1:00am

I think what csack means is that SoJo will pull out the "don't judge" card for anybody that fits a politically correct narrative of victim but won't use it when the perpetrator is white and capitalistic. They'll condemn Wall Street for greed, but never Third World left-wing thugs who starve their people.

Incidentally, I'm curious as to when SoJo is going to acknowledge the meltdown and thorough discrediting of man-caused global warming that has transpired over the last two months, and the multi-billion dollar heist that was pulled off there. And repent for aiding and abetting it.

The longer they fail to do that, the more I become convinced of their lack of any integrity.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:02pm

It's almost never a factor. The "fallenness of human nature" is a constant. Financial crises are cycles. It's illogical to blame a cycle on a constant.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:02pm

It's almost never a factor. The "fallenness of human nature" is a constant. Financial crises are cycles. It's illogical to blame a cycle on a constant.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:04pm

Financial crises have been a regular feature of the West for over 300 years in spite of increasing regulation. All regulation is deemed wise when it is written, but it has always failed. It will fail again. Blaming greed and speculation has been the knee-jerk reaction for the past 300 years.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:04pm

Financial crises have been a regular feature of the West for over 300 years in spite of increasing regulation. All regulation is deemed wise when it is written, but it has always failed. It will fail again. Blaming greed and speculation has been the knee-jerk reaction for the past 300 years.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:06pm

We need the rule of law, which prevents fraud and theft. Free marketeers have always insisted on that. But regulation has never stopped a depression or financial crisis in over 300 years. The problem lies elsewhere, in monetary policy.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:06pm

We need the rule of law, which prevents fraud and theft. Free marketeers have always insisted on that. But regulation has never stopped a depression or financial crisis in over 300 years. The problem lies elsewhere, in monetary policy.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:09pm

The market is nothing more than the place where humanity comes together to sell what it has produced in order to have the funds to buy what it needs, nothing more.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:09pm

The market is nothing more than the place where humanity comes together to sell what it has produced in order to have the funds to buy what it needs, nothing more.

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you think ignorance is a virtue?

by: fundamentalist

01-31-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you think ignorance is a virtue?

by: ckgmail

01-31-2010 @ 4:33pm

No, and nothing in my statement indicates that I think ignorance is a virtue. Neither is arrogance.

by: ckgmail

01-31-2010 @ 4:33pm

No, and nothing in my statement indicates that I think ignorance is a virtue. Neither is arrogance.

by: BlueDeacon

01-31-2010 @ 5:55pm

Not if you read the Scripture, it isn't. The only difference is that some
things are more emphasized than others at different times -- greed at some
times, sexual immorality at others, political intrigue ... you get the picture
(I hope).

by: BlueDeacon

01-31-2010 @ 5:55pm

Not if you read the Scripture, it isn't. The only difference is that some
things are more emphasized than others at different times -- greed at some
times, sexual immorality at others, political intrigue ... you get the picture
(I hope).

by: letjusticerolldown

01-31-2010 @ 7:41pm

Environmental degradation has been a regular feature of the industrialized world for the past 300 years. Just because there has been environmental regulation and environmental degradation does not mean the regulation is either the cause or contributor to crises. Of course it can be wrong-headed. That is not an excuse to abandon regulation. The fundamental purpose of regulation is not to restrain crises but to provide a framework within which certain activities can flouish within the bounds of rules.

by: letjusticerolldown

01-31-2010 @ 7:41pm

Environmental degradation has been a regular feature of the industrialized world for the past 300 years. Just because there has been environmental regulation and environmental degradation does not mean the regulation is either the cause or contributor to crises. Of course it can be wrong-headed. That is not an excuse to abandon regulation. The fundamental purpose of regulation is not to restrain crises but to provide a framework within which certain activities can flouish within the bounds of rules.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:03pm

What in scripture describes sin as the cause of financial cycles?

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:03pm

What in scripture describes sin as the cause of financial cycles?

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:04pm

I was referring to economic regulation, not environmental regulation. They follow different principles.

by: fundamentalist

02-01-2010 @ 12:04pm

I was referring to economic regulation, not environmental regulation. They follow different principles.

by: letjusticerolldown

02-01-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you can't think of one economic regulation you agree with? Do you agree with having a financial system? Do you agree with having a currency? Do you agree with controls on how much currency is printed?

by: letjusticerolldown

02-01-2010 @ 4:10pm

So you can't think of one economic regulation you agree with? Do you agree with having a financial system? Do you agree with having a currency? Do you agree with controls on how much currency is printed?