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Who's Succeeding at Making Churches More Multiracial?

A recent Time magazine article traced the racial transformations of Willow Creek Community Church, one of the five largest congregations in the United States. Remarkably, in a span of just ten years, Willow Creek has gone from being 98% white to what I define as a multiracial church (no one racial group more than 80% of the congregation).

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Willow's story is highly unusual. For at least 150 years, American Christian congregations have "managed" racial diversity in one clear way: by parsing it out into racially homogeneous congregations. As of 2007, more than nine out of 10 Christian churches were at least 80% one racial group. Congregations are approximately 10 times less racially diverse than are the neighborhoods in which they reside.

But change may be brewing. Using his 1998 and 2007 National Congregations Studies, Mark Chaves found that fewer congregations were all one race in 2007 compared to 1998.

I have found another pattern, one that Time quoted me as saying "blew me away." Large Protestant churches (more than 1,000 regular attendees) are more than twice as likely to be multiracial now compared to a decade ago.

The rapid growth of multiracial large Protestant churches is a stunning change. At first I thought it must be a statistical error. But no matter where I checked, I found support for the story. How can we account for these changes?

Ten years ago, what arguments were out there for churches to become multiracial? What aids were there to help congregations manage amidst their new diversity? The answer to both questions is "very little." When I asked clergy and other leaders of multiracial congregations about their experiences back in 2000, they consistently remarked that they felt isolated, ill-equipped for such a task, on a lone voyage through a complicated forest in which they simply did not know the best path.

Ten years ago their resources were indeed slim. There were no Web sites on the topic. I could find about 10 books (loosely defined) on multiracial congregations or worship, but these were scattered over time (nearly 50 years), religious space (mainline, Catholic, etc.), written at very general levels, and not well publicized.

This has changed dramatically. Since 1998, an explosion of materials, networks, and organizations has risen claiming the need for, rightness of, and necessity of multiracial, multiethnic, multicultural churches. Today there are hundreds of books, articles, blogs, workbooks, denominational offices, conferences, undergraduate and seminary courses, workshops, Web sites, networks, and formal organizations that did not exist a decade ago.

Why is it in large Protestant churches that we find the growth of multiracial congregations? Large Protestant congregations typically rely on innovation and accessing the latest market trends. It seems to be part of their DNA. Insofar as the multiracial church movement has occurred only in the past decade, large congregations are the fastest to learn of it, the first to be able to access it and adopt its teachings and techniques. Large congregations have greater funding, larger staffs, a greater variety of programs, more developed recruitment strategies, and more of other resources than do smaller congregations.

For better or worse, large congregations are the bellwether of change to come. Smaller congregations look to them for the cutting edge trends, guidance, and support. Willow Creek has this influence on at least the 10,000 plus congregations that belong to the Willow Creek Association.

The implication? The Christian color wall, solidly in place at least since the Civil War, is cracking. And those cracks may eventually grow to the point that the wall crumbles. Time will tell.

Michael O. Emerson is the Cline Professor of Sociology and the Director of the Center on Race, Religion, and Urban Life at Rice University in Houston, Texas, and a contributor to Faith & Leadership, where this article first appeared. He is the co-author of Divided by Faith: Evangelical Religion and the Problem of Race in America and United by Faith: The Multiracial Congregation As an Answer to the Problem of Race.

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by: fundamentalist

02-02-2010 @ 4:38pm

This is a good trend, but I think the explanation is simple: white churches adopted a style of worship that minorities felt more comfortable with. Worship style has always been the main segregator of Christians. A change in the style is more important to most Christians than a change in doctrine. Willow Creek pioneered the "seeker" sensitive church (basically, using contemporary music) three decades ago. As all-white churches adopt more contemporary worship styles, minorities enjoy the worship experience more. explanation

by: k180

02-03-2010 @ 6:30pm

Funny how no one here mentions that maybe it is actually GOD that is bringing about these massive integrations; that HE seems to have a PLAN, and it's happening EVERYWHERE.

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 6:37pm

It's more than that, because African-Americans want to see persons of color in not only the pew but also in the pulpit and also on the elder board -- and the entry doesn't mention that. You can find "contemporary" worship, which is very versatile, in many white churches and still not see another non-white face.

The willingness to integrate a church is generally in proportion to its "youth" -- if it hasn't been around that long it's more likely to be more welcoming because it doesn't have that many people "set in their ways." What's more of a miracle is when a long-established church integrates. Mine has been on the same corner of my city since the late 1800s and had a well-deserved reputation for racism even into the 1970s, which makes the transformation (which began in 1990) even more remarkable.

by: wood0742

02-02-2010 @ 7:44pm

I agree with BlueDeacon. My Church maintains both contemporary and traditional services at different times in the morning. There are two 4-5 non-caucasian attendees - 2-3 in the traditional and 1-2 in the contemporary services. The older people mostly attend the traditional service (100-150) and younger people and people with children attend the contemporary service (90-110) people. There are no non-caucasian "pastors", though one is a female. The pastors swap-off between the traditional and contemporary services.

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who could draw and organize non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

I (a white southerner transplanted to Pennsylvania) really enjoy the old Black spiritual hymns and try to sing them with the spirit (and, sometimes, gusto) they were written to sung with, but find that the caucasian members of the United Methodist Church I attend simply do not understand singing with "soul". I do not think many non-caucasian people would really appreciate the music that the "traditional" service uses (mostly new-age religious songs that repeat the same phrases over and over) either.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama (though not as violently) when I grew up during the 50's and 60's). This hurts my heart and I feel that when, not if but when, the races begin mingling more closely, and it will have to start in churches, not forcibly in schools, the world, and our country, will be a much happier and healthy place to spend the lives God has granted us.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:43pm

The reason I ask is because I was myself a victim of such bigotry and discrimination when I was in college -- some native Africans were welcome in the evangelical fellowship I attended and the church connected to it but definitely not African-Americans. I think that had to do with, "well, they're not going to be here for very long and they think more the way we do" -- in other words, they didn't threaten the status quo.

Indeed, we can talk about racial "reconciliation" all we want; that said, it won't be authentic until white conservatives "broaden their horizons" and talk and listen to people who don't agree with their ideology -- which, BTW, is rejected by almost the entire African-American community, even most evangelicals, for some very good historical reasons. Among white members at my church I've even personally witnessed some anti-Obama resentment, to which I alerted the lead pastor. (I've mentioned in other threads that the Sunday after the 2008 general election he had the foresight to have all us African-Americans stand and the rest of the congregation lay hands on us, saying that "a spiritual stronghold has been broken.")

You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:45pm

Outside Pittsburgh.

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 8:25pm

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who would draw and integrate non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in the historic black church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also total attendance blew up.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama ...

It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in the east and Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta than I did at home.

BTW, where do you live?

by: facebook-546102975

02-22-2010 @ 11:08pm

Wonder what it means that this article and its subsequent comments are mostly about white people in white churches doing things to bring about integration. I wonder if white Christians are so committed to integration that they'd be willing to adjust to life in historically black churches?

by: NC77

02-02-2010 @ 10:18pm

We have I would guess about 35% black. Many first generation from Africa. Forty to 50% white, and the rest mixed from more than 40 countries around the world. We have more than 1000 regular attendees, not sure if that applies to membership We have a large Ethiopian congregation that meets and has its own ministry within the fellowship. We also have a growing hispanic population and offer spanish translations and are beginning to worship in both English and Spanish (altenating songs). We are Pentecostal. I would say primarily conservative with some members leaning liberal.

The secret? Preach the word of God and don't water it down to appeal to the world. True believers don't care what color you are, they want to hear the truth of God.

Recently a visiting pastor said our fellowship is what heaven will look like.

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 9:56pm

I am sorry to hear about your college experience. I have seen what you are talking about in the past and amazingly it was when I lived in the north. I don't see it as much in the south, but I live in a metropolitan area where there is a different mindset and know in rural areas it probably still exists. I also think I know what is behind that kind of selective bigotry.

You wrote:

"You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews."

I agree totally and I can honsetly say we do have true relationships at my fellowship. We do not care about head count. We are not a "seeker" church like the big megachurches who present a watered down gospel to pack in the people. I realize it is hard to believe because it is not commonplace in today's society.

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 12:15am

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that
the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in
this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to
keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right
brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I
know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

It's also incorrect. Lincoln is hated in the South to this very day for a
heavy hand, which is why the South left in the first place (not really due to
slavery -- Lee opposed it). That's also why the Democrats owned the South for
the next hundred years, losing it only when the national Democratic Party
began supporting civil rights.

And frankly, since the right has always dominated evangelicalism (which is
what we're talking about), I don't see what good it is for African-Americans
to listen to it -- everyone already knows what it believes.

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02-03-2010 @ 3:22am

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by: Jennifer Wilson

02-04-2010 @ 1:57am

I find it interesting that several people have pointed to their own churches as models of racial integration.

Blue Deacon wrote
You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation . . . we need true integration, which includes building relationships . . . And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

I feel that's really key. Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

For better or worse, the fact remains - people are more comfortable around people similar to themselves. We should be addressing that - not by teaching "why we should", but by discussing "what's stopping us".

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 3:36am

How many in your church are African-American? Many white churches will accept native Africans without any issues.

by: francespearlcash

02-03-2010 @ 3:42am

To see, nay experience, a multi-racial, multi-cultural church in action, visit my home church, Redemption World Outreach Center at Greenville, South Carolina, Senior Pastors Apostles Ron and Hope Carpenter.

by: aarondtaylor

02-03-2010 @ 4:11am

Thank you Professor Emerson for this article. I read "Divided by Faith" and felt disillusioned about the state of race relations in evangelical Christianity. It's wonderful to hear from you that things are changing.

by: BlueDeacon

02-05-2010 @ 3:12pm

I actually read a story a few months ago about two Methodist churches, one black and the other white, holding a joint worship service. Frankly, if you guys could pull that off it would excite me to no end.

The reason we won't raid a black church is because we don't want to cause problems with black congregations who can't pay as much as we can (that would understandably create resentment).

That said, a local Christian talk-show host about 20 years ago said that the church is one place that can legitimately practice "affirmative action" because there are so many serious believers and gifted people in the African-American community that there would be little, if any, dropoff. The only difference is that black churches, for a number of reasons, are at times less theologically sound -- but that can be corrected.

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 2:50pm

Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

That's where we are now as a church.

by: wood0742

02-03-2010 @ 3:16pm

* That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a
non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in
the historic black
* church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also
total attendance blew up.

That makes my eyes mist. Its inspiring. I need to speak to some of
the church leaders about getting our district director to find someone
for us. Not that the pastors we have are not wonderful, they are. I
just feel that if we are going to talk-the-talk, we need to
walk-the-walk, sort of.

* It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to
Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in
the east and
* Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand
that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta
than I did at home.

That almost made me laugh because I can totally emphasize with you
about race relations in the south (I grew up in Birmingham and Leeds,
Alabama). I was just as surprized after visiting home after and
absense of 20+ years to find that the old racism hardly existed
(though far from completely gone, I am sure) and a lot of people I
knew had totally changed their attitudes and were even, somewhat,
proud to tell me that "things are a lot better now, not like they used
to be".

BTW, where do you live?

I have lived in Chambersburg, PA. since about `71, lived in Allentown,
PA. and that general area for about 5 years and in Philadelphia, PA.
for about 5 years - as you can tell, I ain't no kid :-).

Where do you live?

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 4:06pm

So, blue, do you have a hunch we don't accept American blacks because we have issues with Americans but not Africans? Not so. I would guess maybe half the black population is American. I have not personally met everyone in the fellowship over the year plus that I have been going. But I do know many. There are blacks from the Carribean, South and Central America too.

We have homeless blacks also. So it's local too. We provide them with transporation every Sunday to come in from the rescue mission. Feed them (a meal that we cook) and they can attend a class or the worship. We have mixed marriages too (in the south by the way). Black men with white women and white men with black women. Not a lot, but a handful. Less than 10 couples. Plus there are other ethnically mixed marriages. They are treated with the same respect we treat all people.

I know it breaks the stereotype of how conservatives are viewed by progressives, but we don't have the racism and bigotry that many want lay on Christians just being Christians. That's the way it is.

by: wood0742

02-05-2010 @ 10:59pm

Great Idea!!! We have, as I may have mentioned, a Black Methodist
Episcopal Methodist Church that split off from us many years ago (I do
not know the reason, but I can guess). I will try to arrange with the
pastors/church officers to have a joint service at least several times
a year. I think that would be wonderful! Thank you, thank you, thank
you, for the idea.

Whith Christian Love,
Tim

by: letjusticerolldown

02-03-2010 @ 4:27pm

Thanks for the commentary--and for your service to the culture and church in learning/writing/teaching.

I don't think we have many solid conclusions.

It could be the shift has to do with where new congregations (or facilities) are located--and their proximity to areas with integrated housing patterns. Has not this change occurred parallel to a rapid increase in rapid ethnoburbs?

I would agree that a church that walks-like a cultural form that attracts diverse audiences (e.g. Target stores) will likely be more diverse. Is that the objective?

Ed Setzler just wrote (I saw article in Christianity Today, but believe he wrote book) about Evangelicals' misuse of statistics/research. Neither he, nor you, mention the flux of evangelical immigrant congregations.

Where (if anywhere) is Evangelical growth happening. Is growth happening in the small, new grassroots church plants--whose members eventually become more culturally integrated and successful; experience integrated forms of culture; and eventually land at the local "Target" church?

Is that truly a breaking down of the walls that divided?

Has Target, for example, learned and integrated the spiritual assets of the African American drama and learned how to integrate that spiritual journey, with others, into God's purposes--and incarnate that? Or has it learned how to create an experience/product that will attract a diverse crowd? Is there a difference?

by: k180

02-03-2010 @ 6:30pm

Funny how no one here mentions that maybe it is actually GOD that is bringing about these massive integrations; that HE seems to have a PLAN, and it's happening EVERYWHERE.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:43pm

The reason I ask is because I was myself a victim of such bigotry and discrimination when I was in college -- some native Africans were welcome in the evangelical fellowship I attended and the church connected to it but definitely not African-Americans. I think that had to do with, "well, they're not going to be here for very long and they think more the way we do" -- in other words, they didn't threaten the status quo.

Indeed, we can talk about racial "reconciliation" all we want; that said, it won't be authentic until white conservatives "broaden their horizons" and talk and listen to people who don't agree with their ideology -- which, BTW, is rejected by almost the entire African-American community, even most evangelicals, for some very good historical reasons. Among white members at my church I've even personally witnessed some anti-Obama resentment, to which I alerted the lead pastor. (I've mentioned in other threads that the Sunday after the 2008 general election he had the foresight to have all us African-Americans stand and the rest of the congregation lay hands on us, saying that "a spiritual stronghold has been broken.")

You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:45pm

Outside Pittsburgh.

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 9:56pm

I am sorry to hear about your college experience. I have seen what you are talking about in the past and amazingly it was when I lived in the north. I don't see it as much in the south, but I live in a metropolitan area where there is a different mindset and know in rural areas it probably still exists. I also think I know what is behind that kind of selective bigotry.

You wrote:

"You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews."

I agree totally and I can honsetly say we do have true relationships at my fellowship. We do not care about head count. We are not a "seeker" church like the big megachurches who present a watered down gospel to pack in the people. I realize it is hard to believe because it is not commonplace in today's society.

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 12:15am

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that
the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in
this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to
keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right
brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I
know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

It's also incorrect. Lincoln is hated in the South to this very day for a
heavy hand, which is why the South left in the first place (not really due to
slavery -- Lee opposed it). That's also why the Democrats owned the South for
the next hundred years, losing it only when the national Democratic Party
began supporting civil rights.

And frankly, since the right has always dominated evangelicalism (which is
what we're talking about), I don't see what good it is for African-Americans
to listen to it -- everyone already knows what it believes.

by: Jennifer Wilson

02-04-2010 @ 1:57am

I find it interesting that several people have pointed to their own churches as models of racial integration.

Blue Deacon wrote
You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation . . . we need true integration, which includes building relationships . . . And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

I feel that's really key. Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

For better or worse, the fact remains - people are more comfortable around people similar to themselves. We should be addressing that - not by teaching "why we should", but by discussing "what's stopping us".

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

Please tell me the steps you went through to get an Afro-American
Pastor into your church. Frankly, I need some help to get off the
starting line.
Thanks,
Timothy

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 7:29pm

Well, we had it a little easier than you would. Our church is part of a very small conservative denomination where it's fairly easy to become credentialed even as an outsider provided you have or are willing to get the minimum education required. Some time ago we were looking to call three executive pastors to lighten the load from our senior pastor; however, the two we have so far are both white and I think we're looking for a person of color to fill the third position. One thing we won't do is raid a black church.

Anyway (before I got there), the worship pastor we called -- he's no longer at our church -- basically "created" his own position. We had volunteers who directed the choir and led worship but realized that things were growing so quickly that a full-time staff person was needed. He had a music degree and was credentialed in the denomination, so he seemed to be a good fit. (That turned out to be a gross understatement.)

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 2:50pm

Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

That's where we are now as a church.

by: facebook-546102975

02-22-2010 @ 9:08pm

Wonder what it means that this article and its subsequent comments are mostly about white people in white churches doing things to bring about integration. I wonder if white Christians are so committed to integration that they'd be willing to adjust to life in historically black churches?

by: Jennifer Wilson

02-10-2010 @ 12:04am

Thanks Sam. You're definitely right that an Asian immigrant is completely different from an African one... and that the racism each experiences is different. (Although, being the "model" minority can be just oppressive a stereotype as any other.)

Also, as I'm from an area where the black / white issue is less focused on (than, say, the latino or asian ones), I admit I don't have much experience on that one. So yes, I suppose you may be right. I can definitely see where you're coming from, I'm just very curious how the African immigrants would view what you've said.

by: Jedidiah Abdul Muhib Palosaari

02-07-2010 @ 1:40pm

Indeed, ten years ago there were books like Peter Wagner's that argued that the most segregated hour in America being Sunday monring was a good thing.

by: wood0742

02-05-2010 @ 10:59pm

Great Idea!!! We have, as I may have mentioned, a Black Methodist
Episcopal Methodist Church that split off from us many years ago (I do
not know the reason, but I can guess). I will try to arrange with the
pastors/church officers to have a joint service at least several times
a year. I think that would be wonderful! Thank you, thank you, thank
you, for the idea.

Whith Christian Love,
Tim

by: facebook-546102975

02-22-2010 @ 11:08pm

Wonder what it means that this article and its subsequent comments are mostly about white people in white churches doing things to bring about integration. I wonder if white Christians are so committed to integration that they'd be willing to adjust to life in historically black churches?

by: SamHamilton

02-04-2010 @ 10:05pm

No, no...you silly man/woman. It must be the amazing networks and facilitators and resources packets that have been developed by highly credentialed, educated people at impressive institutions.

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 10:55pm

I agree. I have thought of "raiding" the African American Methodist
Ecispocal Church (which, originally split off from the UNited Babtist
Church, here. But that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul,
so-to-speak. A reunion of the two churches would be a godsend. I
wish I could bring that about and will work towards that idea. What
do you think?

Tim

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

Please tell me the steps you went through to get an Afro-American
Pastor into your church. Frankly, I need some help to get off the
starting line.
Thanks,
Timothy

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 7:29pm

Well, we had it a little easier than you would. Our church is part of a very small conservative denomination where it's fairly easy to become credentialed even as an outsider provided you have or are willing to get the minimum education required. Some time ago we were looking to call three executive pastors to lighten the load from our senior pastor; however, the two we have so far are both white and I think we're looking for a person of color to fill the third position. One thing we won't do is raid a black church.

Anyway (before I got there), the worship pastor we called -- he's no longer at our church -- basically "created" his own position. We had volunteers who directed the choir and led worship but realized that things were growing so quickly that a full-time staff person was needed. He had a music degree and was credentialed in the denomination, so he seemed to be a good fit. (That turned out to be a gross understatement.)

by: fundamentalist

02-02-2010 @ 4:38pm

This is a good trend, but I think the explanation is simple: white churches adopted a style of worship that minorities felt more comfortable with. Worship style has always been the main segregator of Christians. A change in the style is more important to most Christians than a change in doctrine. Willow Creek pioneered the "seeker" sensitive church (basically, using contemporary music) three decades ago. As all-white churches adopt more contemporary worship styles, minorities enjoy the worship experience more. explanation

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 6:37pm

It's more than that, because African-Americans want to see persons of color in not only the pew but also in the pulpit and also on the elder board -- and the entry doesn't mention that. You can find "contemporary" worship, which is very versatile, in many white churches and still not see another non-white face.

The willingness to integrate a church is generally in proportion to its "youth" -- if it hasn't been around that long it's more likely to be more welcoming because it doesn't have that many people "set in their ways." What's more of a miracle is when a long-established church integrates. Mine has been on the same corner of my city since the late 1800s and had a well-deserved reputation for racism even into the 1970s, which makes the transformation (which began in 1990) even more remarkable.

by: wood0742

02-02-2010 @ 7:44pm

I agree with BlueDeacon. My Church maintains both contemporary and traditional services at different times in the morning. There are two 4-5 non-caucasian attendees - 2-3 in the traditional and 1-2 in the contemporary services. The older people mostly attend the traditional service (100-150) and younger people and people with children attend the contemporary service (90-110) people. There are no non-caucasian "pastors", though one is a female. The pastors swap-off between the traditional and contemporary services.

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who could draw and organize non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

I (a white southerner transplanted to Pennsylvania) really enjoy the old Black spiritual hymns and try to sing them with the spirit (and, sometimes, gusto) they were written to sung with, but find that the caucasian members of the United Methodist Church I attend simply do not understand singing with "soul". I do not think many non-caucasian people would really appreciate the music that the "traditional" service uses (mostly new-age religious songs that repeat the same phrases over and over) either.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama (though not as violently) when I grew up during the 50's and 60's). This hurts my heart and I feel that when, not if but when, the races begin mingling more closely, and it will have to start in churches, not forcibly in schools, the world, and our country, will be a much happier and healthy place to spend the lives God has granted us.

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 8:25pm

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who would draw and integrate non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in the historic black church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also total attendance blew up.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama ...

It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in the east and Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta than I did at home.

BTW, where do you live?

by: NC77

02-02-2010 @ 10:18pm

We have I would guess about 35% black. Many first generation from Africa. Forty to 50% white, and the rest mixed from more than 40 countries around the world. We have more than 1000 regular attendees, not sure if that applies to membership We have a large Ethiopian congregation that meets and has its own ministry within the fellowship. We also have a growing hispanic population and offer spanish translations and are beginning to worship in both English and Spanish (altenating songs). We are Pentecostal. I would say primarily conservative with some members leaning liberal.

The secret? Preach the word of God and don't water it down to appeal to the world. True believers don't care what color you are, they want to hear the truth of God.

Recently a visiting pastor said our fellowship is what heaven will look like.

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by: SamHamilton

02-04-2010 @ 10:05pm

No, no...you silly man/woman. It must be the amazing networks and facilitators and resources packets that have been developed by highly credentialed, educated people at impressive institutions.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 3:36am

How many in your church are African-American? Many white churches will accept native Africans without any issues.

by: francespearlcash

02-03-2010 @ 3:42am

To see, nay experience, a multi-racial, multi-cultural church in action, visit my home church, Redemption World Outreach Center at Greenville, South Carolina, Senior Pastors Apostles Ron and Hope Carpenter.

by: aarondtaylor

02-03-2010 @ 4:11am

Thank you Professor Emerson for this article. I read "Divided by Faith" and felt disillusioned about the state of race relations in evangelical Christianity. It's wonderful to hear from you that things are changing.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: fundamentalist

02-02-2010 @ 4:38pm

This is a good trend, but I think the explanation is simple: white churches adopted a style of worship that minorities felt more comfortable with. Worship style has always been the main segregator of Christians. A change in the style is more important to most Christians than a change in doctrine. Willow Creek pioneered the "seeker" sensitive church (basically, using contemporary music) three decades ago. As all-white churches adopt more contemporary worship styles, minorities enjoy the worship experience more. explanation

by: fundamentalist

02-02-2010 @ 4:38pm

This is a good trend, but I think the explanation is simple: white churches adopted a style of worship that minorities felt more comfortable with. Worship style has always been the main segregator of Christians. A change in the style is more important to most Christians than a change in doctrine. Willow Creek pioneered the "seeker" sensitive church (basically, using contemporary music) three decades ago. As all-white churches adopt more contemporary worship styles, minorities enjoy the worship experience more. explanation

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 6:37pm

It's more than that, because African-Americans want to see persons of color in not only the pew but also in the pulpit and also on the elder board -- and the entry doesn't mention that. You can find "contemporary" worship, which is very versatile, in many white churches and still not see another non-white face.

The willingness to integrate a church is generally in proportion to its "youth" -- if it hasn't been around that long it's more likely to be more welcoming because it doesn't have that many people "set in their ways." What's more of a miracle is when a long-established church integrates. Mine has been on the same corner of my city since the late 1800s and had a well-deserved reputation for racism even into the 1970s, which makes the transformation (which began in 1990) even more remarkable.

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 6:37pm

It's more than that, because African-Americans want to see persons of color in not only the pew but also in the pulpit and also on the elder board -- and the entry doesn't mention that. You can find "contemporary" worship, which is very versatile, in many white churches and still not see another non-white face.

The willingness to integrate a church is generally in proportion to its "youth" -- if it hasn't been around that long it's more likely to be more welcoming because it doesn't have that many people "set in their ways." What's more of a miracle is when a long-established church integrates. Mine has been on the same corner of my city since the late 1800s and had a well-deserved reputation for racism even into the 1970s, which makes the transformation (which began in 1990) even more remarkable.

by: wood0742

02-02-2010 @ 7:44pm

I agree with BlueDeacon. My Church maintains both contemporary and traditional services at different times in the morning. There are two 4-5 non-caucasian attendees - 2-3 in the traditional and 1-2 in the contemporary services. The older people mostly attend the traditional service (100-150) and younger people and people with children attend the contemporary service (90-110) people. There are no non-caucasian "pastors", though one is a female. The pastors swap-off between the traditional and contemporary services.

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who could draw and organize non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

I (a white southerner transplanted to Pennsylvania) really enjoy the old Black spiritual hymns and try to sing them with the spirit (and, sometimes, gusto) they were written to sung with, but find that the caucasian members of the United Methodist Church I attend simply do not understand singing with "soul". I do not think many non-caucasian people would really appreciate the music that the "traditional" service uses (mostly new-age religious songs that repeat the same phrases over and over) either.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama (though not as violently) when I grew up during the 50's and 60's). This hurts my heart and I feel that when, not if but when, the races begin mingling more closely, and it will have to start in churches, not forcibly in schools, the world, and our country, will be a much happier and healthy place to spend the lives God has granted us.

by: wood0742

02-02-2010 @ 7:44pm

I agree with BlueDeacon. My Church maintains both contemporary and traditional services at different times in the morning. There are two 4-5 non-caucasian attendees - 2-3 in the traditional and 1-2 in the contemporary services. The older people mostly attend the traditional service (100-150) and younger people and people with children attend the contemporary service (90-110) people. There are no non-caucasian "pastors", though one is a female. The pastors swap-off between the traditional and contemporary services.

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who could draw and organize non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

I (a white southerner transplanted to Pennsylvania) really enjoy the old Black spiritual hymns and try to sing them with the spirit (and, sometimes, gusto) they were written to sung with, but find that the caucasian members of the United Methodist Church I attend simply do not understand singing with "soul". I do not think many non-caucasian people would really appreciate the music that the "traditional" service uses (mostly new-age religious songs that repeat the same phrases over and over) either.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama (though not as violently) when I grew up during the 50's and 60's). This hurts my heart and I feel that when, not if but when, the races begin mingling more closely, and it will have to start in churches, not forcibly in schools, the world, and our country, will be a much happier and healthy place to spend the lives God has granted us.

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 8:25pm

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who would draw and integrate non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in the historic black church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also total attendance blew up.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama ...

It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in the east and Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta than I did at home.

BTW, where do you live?

by: BlueDeacon

02-02-2010 @ 8:25pm

I feel that if we had a non-caucasian pastor who would draw and integrate non-caucasion members into our Church there would be a much richer, more devoted attendance and enjoyment of the services.

That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in the historic black church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also total attendance blew up.

I was surprized to learn, when I got transplanted to the north, that the same predjudices (from both white and other races) exists here just as strongly as it did in Alabama ...

It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in the east and Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta than I did at home.

BTW, where do you live?

by: NC77

02-02-2010 @ 10:18pm

We have I would guess about 35% black. Many first generation from Africa. Forty to 50% white, and the rest mixed from more than 40 countries around the world. We have more than 1000 regular attendees, not sure if that applies to membership We have a large Ethiopian congregation that meets and has its own ministry within the fellowship. We also have a growing hispanic population and offer spanish translations and are beginning to worship in both English and Spanish (altenating songs). We are Pentecostal. I would say primarily conservative with some members leaning liberal.

The secret? Preach the word of God and don't water it down to appeal to the world. True believers don't care what color you are, they want to hear the truth of God.

Recently a visiting pastor said our fellowship is what heaven will look like.

by: NC77

02-02-2010 @ 10:18pm

We have I would guess about 35% black. Many first generation from Africa. Forty to 50% white, and the rest mixed from more than 40 countries around the world. We have more than 1000 regular attendees, not sure if that applies to membership We have a large Ethiopian congregation that meets and has its own ministry within the fellowship. We also have a growing hispanic population and offer spanish translations and are beginning to worship in both English and Spanish (altenating songs). We are Pentecostal. I would say primarily conservative with some members leaning liberal.

The secret? Preach the word of God and don't water it down to appeal to the world. True believers don't care what color you are, they want to hear the truth of God.

Recently a visiting pastor said our fellowship is what heaven will look like.

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by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 3:36am

How many in your church are African-American? Many white churches will accept native Africans without any issues.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 3:36am

How many in your church are African-American? Many white churches will accept native Africans without any issues.

by: francespearlcash

02-03-2010 @ 3:42am

To see, nay experience, a multi-racial, multi-cultural church in action, visit my home church, Redemption World Outreach Center at Greenville, South Carolina, Senior Pastors Apostles Ron and Hope Carpenter.

by: francespearlcash

02-03-2010 @ 3:42am

To see, nay experience, a multi-racial, multi-cultural church in action, visit my home church, Redemption World Outreach Center at Greenville, South Carolina, Senior Pastors Apostles Ron and Hope Carpenter.

by: aarondtaylor

02-03-2010 @ 4:11am

Thank you Professor Emerson for this article. I read "Divided by Faith" and felt disillusioned about the state of race relations in evangelical Christianity. It's wonderful to hear from you that things are changing.

by: aarondtaylor

02-03-2010 @ 4:11am

Thank you Professor Emerson for this article. I read "Divided by Faith" and felt disillusioned about the state of race relations in evangelical Christianity. It's wonderful to hear from you that things are changing.

by: wood0742

02-03-2010 @ 3:16pm

* That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a
non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in
the historic black
* church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also
total attendance blew up.

That makes my eyes mist. Its inspiring. I need to speak to some of
the church leaders about getting our district director to find someone
for us. Not that the pastors we have are not wonderful, they are. I
just feel that if we are going to talk-the-talk, we need to
walk-the-walk, sort of.

* It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to
Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in
the east and
* Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand
that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta
than I did at home.

That almost made me laugh because I can totally emphasize with you
about race relations in the south (I grew up in Birmingham and Leeds,
Alabama). I was just as surprized after visiting home after and
absense of 20+ years to find that the old racism hardly existed
(though far from completely gone, I am sure) and a lot of people I
knew had totally changed their attitudes and were even, somewhat,
proud to tell me that "things are a lot better now, not like they used
to be".

BTW, where do you live?

I have lived in Chambersburg, PA. since about `71, lived in Allentown,
PA. and that general area for about 5 years and in Philadelphia, PA.
for about 5 years - as you can tell, I ain't no kid :-).

Where do you live?

by: wood0742

02-03-2010 @ 3:16pm

* That's just what my church did -- call as worship pastor a
non-Caucasian (in this case, African-American) man who had grown up in
the historic black
* church. And not only did the church become more diverse, but also
total attendance blew up.

That makes my eyes mist. Its inspiring. I need to speak to some of
the church leaders about getting our district director to find someone
for us. Not that the pastors we have are not wonderful, they are. I
just feel that if we are going to talk-the-talk, we need to
walk-the-walk, sort of.

* It shouldn't have. I think it was James Carville who referred to
Pennsylvania as (paraphrasing) Pittsburgh to the west, Philadelphia in
the east and
* Alabama in the center, and those of us who live here understand
that. In fact, I'm African-American and had fewer problems in Atlanta
than I did at home.

That almost made me laugh because I can totally emphasize with you
about race relations in the south (I grew up in Birmingham and Leeds,
Alabama). I was just as surprized after visiting home after and
absense of 20+ years to find that the old racism hardly existed
(though far from completely gone, I am sure) and a lot of people I
knew had totally changed their attitudes and were even, somewhat,
proud to tell me that "things are a lot better now, not like they used
to be".

BTW, where do you live?

I have lived in Chambersburg, PA. since about `71, lived in Allentown,
PA. and that general area for about 5 years and in Philadelphia, PA.
for about 5 years - as you can tell, I ain't no kid :-).

Where do you live?

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 4:06pm

So, blue, do you have a hunch we don't accept American blacks because we have issues with Americans but not Africans? Not so. I would guess maybe half the black population is American. I have not personally met everyone in the fellowship over the year plus that I have been going. But I do know many. There are blacks from the Carribean, South and Central America too.

We have homeless blacks also. So it's local too. We provide them with transporation every Sunday to come in from the rescue mission. Feed them (a meal that we cook) and they can attend a class or the worship. We have mixed marriages too (in the south by the way). Black men with white women and white men with black women. Not a lot, but a handful. Less than 10 couples. Plus there are other ethnically mixed marriages. They are treated with the same respect we treat all people.

I know it breaks the stereotype of how conservatives are viewed by progressives, but we don't have the racism and bigotry that many want lay on Christians just being Christians. That's the way it is.

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 4:06pm

So, blue, do you have a hunch we don't accept American blacks because we have issues with Americans but not Africans? Not so. I would guess maybe half the black population is American. I have not personally met everyone in the fellowship over the year plus that I have been going. But I do know many. There are blacks from the Carribean, South and Central America too.

We have homeless blacks also. So it's local too. We provide them with transporation every Sunday to come in from the rescue mission. Feed them (a meal that we cook) and they can attend a class or the worship. We have mixed marriages too (in the south by the way). Black men with white women and white men with black women. Not a lot, but a handful. Less than 10 couples. Plus there are other ethnically mixed marriages. They are treated with the same respect we treat all people.

I know it breaks the stereotype of how conservatives are viewed by progressives, but we don't have the racism and bigotry that many want lay on Christians just being Christians. That's the way it is.

by: letjusticerolldown

02-03-2010 @ 4:27pm

Thanks for the commentary--and for your service to the culture and church in learning/writing/teaching.

I don't think we have many solid conclusions.

It could be the shift has to do with where new congregations (or facilities) are located--and their proximity to areas with integrated housing patterns. Has not this change occurred parallel to a rapid increase in rapid ethnoburbs?

I would agree that a church that walks-like a cultural form that attracts diverse audiences (e.g. Target stores) will likely be more diverse. Is that the objective?

Ed Setzler just wrote (I saw article in Christianity Today, but believe he wrote book) about Evangelicals' misuse of statistics/research. Neither he, nor you, mention the flux of evangelical immigrant congregations.

Where (if anywhere) is Evangelical growth happening. Is growth happening in the small, new grassroots church plants--whose members eventually become more culturally integrated and successful; experience integrated forms of culture; and eventually land at the local "Target" church?

Is that truly a breaking down of the walls that divided?

Has Target, for example, learned and integrated the spiritual assets of the African American drama and learned how to integrate that spiritual journey, with others, into God's purposes--and incarnate that? Or has it learned how to create an experience/product that will attract a diverse crowd? Is there a difference?

by: letjusticerolldown

02-03-2010 @ 4:27pm

Thanks for the commentary--and for your service to the culture and church in learning/writing/teaching.

I don't think we have many solid conclusions.

It could be the shift has to do with where new congregations (or facilities) are located--and their proximity to areas with integrated housing patterns. Has not this change occurred parallel to a rapid increase in rapid ethnoburbs?

I would agree that a church that walks-like a cultural form that attracts diverse audiences (e.g. Target stores) will likely be more diverse. Is that the objective?

Ed Setzler just wrote (I saw article in Christianity Today, but believe he wrote book) about Evangelicals' misuse of statistics/research. Neither he, nor you, mention the flux of evangelical immigrant congregations.

Where (if anywhere) is Evangelical growth happening. Is growth happening in the small, new grassroots church plants--whose members eventually become more culturally integrated and successful; experience integrated forms of culture; and eventually land at the local "Target" church?

Is that truly a breaking down of the walls that divided?

Has Target, for example, learned and integrated the spiritual assets of the African American drama and learned how to integrate that spiritual journey, with others, into God's purposes--and incarnate that? Or has it learned how to create an experience/product that will attract a diverse crowd? Is there a difference?

by: k180

02-03-2010 @ 6:30pm

Funny how no one here mentions that maybe it is actually GOD that is bringing about these massive integrations; that HE seems to have a PLAN, and it's happening EVERYWHERE.

by: k180

02-03-2010 @ 6:30pm

Funny how no one here mentions that maybe it is actually GOD that is bringing about these massive integrations; that HE seems to have a PLAN, and it's happening EVERYWHERE.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:43pm

The reason I ask is because I was myself a victim of such bigotry and discrimination when I was in college -- some native Africans were welcome in the evangelical fellowship I attended and the church connected to it but definitely not African-Americans. I think that had to do with, "well, they're not going to be here for very long and they think more the way we do" -- in other words, they didn't threaten the status quo.

Indeed, we can talk about racial "reconciliation" all we want; that said, it won't be authentic until white conservatives "broaden their horizons" and talk and listen to people who don't agree with their ideology -- which, BTW, is rejected by almost the entire African-American community, even most evangelicals, for some very good historical reasons. Among white members at my church I've even personally witnessed some anti-Obama resentment, to which I alerted the lead pastor. (I've mentioned in other threads that the Sunday after the 2008 general election he had the foresight to have all us African-Americans stand and the rest of the congregation lay hands on us, saying that "a spiritual stronghold has been broken.")

You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:43pm

The reason I ask is because I was myself a victim of such bigotry and discrimination when I was in college -- some native Africans were welcome in the evangelical fellowship I attended and the church connected to it but definitely not African-Americans. I think that had to do with, "well, they're not going to be here for very long and they think more the way we do" -- in other words, they didn't threaten the status quo.

Indeed, we can talk about racial "reconciliation" all we want; that said, it won't be authentic until white conservatives "broaden their horizons" and talk and listen to people who don't agree with their ideology -- which, BTW, is rejected by almost the entire African-American community, even most evangelicals, for some very good historical reasons. Among white members at my church I've even personally witnessed some anti-Obama resentment, to which I alerted the lead pastor. (I've mentioned in other threads that the Sunday after the 2008 general election he had the foresight to have all us African-Americans stand and the rest of the congregation lay hands on us, saying that "a spiritual stronghold has been broken.")

You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:45pm

Outside Pittsburgh.

by: BlueDeacon

02-03-2010 @ 7:45pm

Outside Pittsburgh.

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 9:56pm

I am sorry to hear about your college experience. I have seen what you are talking about in the past and amazingly it was when I lived in the north. I don't see it as much in the south, but I live in a metropolitan area where there is a different mindset and know in rural areas it probably still exists. I also think I know what is behind that kind of selective bigotry.

You wrote:

"You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews."

I agree totally and I can honsetly say we do have true relationships at my fellowship. We do not care about head count. We are not a "seeker" church like the big megachurches who present a watered down gospel to pack in the people. I realize it is hard to believe because it is not commonplace in today's society.

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

by: NC77

02-03-2010 @ 9:56pm

I am sorry to hear about your college experience. I have seen what you are talking about in the past and amazingly it was when I lived in the north. I don't see it as much in the south, but I live in a metropolitan area where there is a different mindset and know in rural areas it probably still exists. I also think I know what is behind that kind of selective bigotry.

You wrote:

"You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation (i.e. a focus on body counts). Rather, we need true integration, which includes building relationships, which is actually happening at my church, albeit not yet enough for my tastes. And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews."

I agree totally and I can honsetly say we do have true relationships at my fellowship. We do not care about head count. We are not a "seeker" church like the big megachurches who present a watered down gospel to pack in the people. I realize it is hard to believe because it is not commonplace in today's society.

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 12:15am

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that
the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in
this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to
keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right
brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I
know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

It's also incorrect. Lincoln is hated in the South to this very day for a
heavy hand, which is why the South left in the first place (not really due to
slavery -- Lee opposed it). That's also why the Democrats owned the South for
the next hundred years, losing it only when the national Democratic Party
began supporting civil rights.

And frankly, since the right has always dominated evangelicalism (which is
what we're talking about), I don't see what good it is for African-Americans
to listen to it -- everyone already knows what it believes.

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 12:15am

The left must also listen to the right in this debate also. The notion that
the right has always been wrong because of the history of black slavery in
this country is a bogus argument in my mind. It was the left that wanted to
keep the status quo back when the south wanted to leave the union. The right
brought about the change that saved the union and did away with slavery. I
know that goes against the some groups view of history on the matter.

It's also incorrect. Lincoln is hated in the South to this very day for a
heavy hand, which is why the South left in the first place (not really due to
slavery -- Lee opposed it). That's also why the Democrats owned the South for
the next hundred years, losing it only when the national Democratic Party
began supporting civil rights.

And frankly, since the right has always dominated evangelicalism (which is
what we're talking about), I don't see what good it is for African-Americans
to listen to it -- everyone already knows what it believes.

by: Jennifer Wilson

02-04-2010 @ 1:57am

I find it interesting that several people have pointed to their own churches as models of racial integration.

Blue Deacon wrote
You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation . . . we need true integration, which includes building relationships . . . And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

I feel that's really key. Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

For better or worse, the fact remains - people are more comfortable around people similar to themselves. We should be addressing that - not by teaching "why we should", but by discussing "what's stopping us".

by: Jennifer Wilson

02-04-2010 @ 1:57am

I find it interesting that several people have pointed to their own churches as models of racial integration.

Blue Deacon wrote
You see, we're not simply talking about desegregation . . . we need true integration, which includes building relationships . . . And one way evangelical churches have to change is that they have to accept diverse worldviews.

I feel that's really key. Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

For better or worse, the fact remains - people are more comfortable around people similar to themselves. We should be addressing that - not by teaching "why we should", but by discussing "what's stopping us".

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 2:50pm

Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

That's where we are now as a church.

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 2:50pm

Often, it seems congregations that "succeed" in the racial divide are now faced with a new one: the "cultural" or "worldview" divide.

That's where we are now as a church.

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

Please tell me the steps you went through to get an Afro-American
Pastor into your church. Frankly, I need some help to get off the
starting line.
Thanks,
Timothy

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

Please tell me the steps you went through to get an Afro-American
Pastor into your church. Frankly, I need some help to get off the
starting line.
Thanks,
Timothy

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 7:29pm

Well, we had it a little easier than you would. Our church is part of a very small conservative denomination where it's fairly easy to become credentialed even as an outsider provided you have or are willing to get the minimum education required. Some time ago we were looking to call three executive pastors to lighten the load from our senior pastor; however, the two we have so far are both white and I think we're looking for a person of color to fill the third position. One thing we won't do is raid a black church.

Anyway (before I got there), the worship pastor we called -- he's no longer at our church -- basically "created" his own position. We had volunteers who directed the choir and led worship but realized that things were growing so quickly that a full-time staff person was needed. He had a music degree and was credentialed in the denomination, so he seemed to be a good fit. (That turned out to be a gross understatement.)

by: BlueDeacon

02-04-2010 @ 7:29pm

Well, we had it a little easier than you would. Our church is part of a very small conservative denomination where it's fairly easy to become credentialed even as an outsider provided you have or are willing to get the minimum education required. Some time ago we were looking to call three executive pastors to lighten the load from our senior pastor; however, the two we have so far are both white and I think we're looking for a person of color to fill the third position. One thing we won't do is raid a black church.

Anyway (before I got there), the worship pastor we called -- he's no longer at our church -- basically "created" his own position. We had volunteers who directed the choir and led worship but realized that things were growing so quickly that a full-time staff person was needed. He had a music degree and was credentialed in the denomination, so he seemed to be a good fit. (That turned out to be a gross understatement.)

by: SamHamilton

02-04-2010 @ 10:05pm

No, no...you silly man/woman. It must be the amazing networks and facilitators and resources packets that have been developed by highly credentialed, educated people at impressive institutions.

by: SamHamilton

02-04-2010 @ 10:05pm

No, no...you silly man/woman. It must be the amazing networks and facilitators and resources packets that have been developed by highly credentialed, educated people at impressive institutions.

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 10:55pm

I agree. I have thought of "raiding" the African American Methodist
Ecispocal Church (which, originally split off from the UNited Babtist
Church, here. But that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul,
so-to-speak. A reunion of the two churches would be a godsend. I
wish I could bring that about and will work towards that idea. What
do you think?

Tim

by: wood0742

02-04-2010 @ 10:55pm

I agree. I have thought of "raiding" the African American Methodist
Ecispocal Church (which, originally split off from the UNited Babtist
Church, here. But that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul,
so-to-speak. A reunion of the two churches would be a godsend. I
wish I could bring that about and will work towards that idea. What
do you think?

Tim

by: BlueDeacon

02-05-2010 @ 3:12pm

I actually read a story a few months ago about two Methodist churches, one black and the other white, holding a joint worship service. Frankly, if you guys could pull that off it would excite me to no end.

The reason we won't raid a black church is because we don't want to cause problems with black congregations who can't pay as much as we can (that would understandably create resentment).

That said, a local Christian talk-show host about 20 years ago said that the church is one place that can legitimately practice "affirmative action" because there are so many serious believers and gifted people in the African-American community that there would be little, if any, dropoff. The only difference is that black churches, for a number of reasons, are at times less theologically sound -- but that can be corrected.

by: BlueDeacon

02-05-2010 @ 3:12pm

I actually read a story a few months ago about two Methodist churches, one black and the other white, holding a joint worship service. Frankly, if you guys could pull that off it would excite me to no end.

The reason we won't raid a black church is because we don't want to cause problems with black congregations who can't pay as much as we can (that would understandably create resentment).

That said, a local Christian talk-show host about 20 years ago said that the church is one place that can legitimately practice "affirmative action" because there are so many serious believers and gifted people in the African-American community that there would be little, if any, dropoff. The only difference is that black churches, for a number of reasons, are at times less theologically sound -- but that can be corrected.

by: wood0742

02-05-2010 @ 10:59pm

Great Idea!!! We have, as I may have mentioned, a Black Methodist
Episcopal Methodist Church that split off from us many years ago (I do
not know the reason, but I can guess). I will try to arrange with the
pastors/church officers to have a joint service at least several times
a year. I think that would be wonderful! Thank you, thank you, thank
you, for the idea.

Whith Christian Love,
Tim

by: wood0742

02-05-2010 @ 10:59pm

Great Idea!!! We have, as I may have mentioned, a Black Methodist
Episcopal Methodist Church that split off from us many years ago (I do
not know the reason, but I can guess). I will try to arrange with the
pastors/church officers to have a joint service at least several times
a year. I think that would be wonderful! Thank you, thank you, thank
you, for the idea.

Whith Christian Love,
Tim